20 Amazing Facts About Voting In The United States
By Bob Rowe

1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.

2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the US voting machine industry.

3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

5. 35% of ES&S is owned by Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, who became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, a long-time friend of the Bush family, was caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice- presidential candidates.

8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the US and counts almost 60% of all US votes.

9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

11. Diebold is based in Ohio.

12. Diebold employs 5 convicted felons as developers. These are the people who write the voting machine computer code.

13. Diebold's Senior Vice-President, Jeff Dean, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree.

14. Diebold Senior Vice-President Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie at http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov.)

17. 30% of all US votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail. 18. Bush's Help America Vote Act of 2002 has as its goal to replace all machines with the new electronic touch screen systems with no paper trail.

19. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

20. Major statistical voting oddities (odds on the order of 250 million to 1!) -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated by experts.

hahahahahahhahahahahaha


JUST ANOTHER LIBERAL EXUSE!
you think that election day was rigged!!!! :P
hehe, did you know in Philly that there were numerous counts of break ins to the voting machines, and all were to benefit the liberal party, there, thats a true little exuse.

may i use you as a prime example, to my "whinny liberals always pointing the finger" post?
i would appreciate your permission ;)

you think that election day was rigged!!!! hehe, did you know in Philly that there were numerous counts of break ins to the voting machines, and all were to benefit the liberal party, there, that a true little excuse.

No, actually i didn't. I like how you preach that others are saying bullshit by not providing a link even though nearly everything that you post is either skewed or flat out wrong.

Out of the THOUSANDS (maybe only a thousand.) Stuff i read online all points to Bush stealing the election. Maybe you should start verifying stuff before you say it or actual KNOW SOMETHING. At least Baron Max and other people who i disagree on politics with in this forum back stuff up and don't lie. You just lie and say fuck a thousand times and say i don't give a fuck if you agree with my bullshit because that's all it is.

Interesting facts.

Just another conspiracy theory from a liberal who is pissed off that his party wasn't good enough to win the election.

And where did you get all of these so-called "facts" about voting machines?

Some of these are quite funny. Like this one:

19. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.How could anyone know that? Without a paper trail, what proof does anyone have?

And this one:

20. Major statistical voting oddities (odds on the order of 250 million to 1!) -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated by experts.Statistics cannot determine human beliefs and emotions (which are what voting is based in). Show some matematical proof. My guess is this guy Bob Rowe who made up these "facts" never made it past algebra, and has never taken a statistics class in his life.


No, actually i didn't. I like how you preach that others are saying bullshit by not providing a link even though nearly everything that you post is either skewed or flat out wrong.It's hilarious (if not a bit frightening) that you don't see the hipocrisy in this statement. You didn't even cite your own references, yet you accuse Mr.Jack4WAR of preaching his bullshit!

haha exactly!
i never said you had to believe my explanation.
but even if i hated bush, i would still argue what you have said.

im sorrry bush is such a wittle bwully!! he bweats up the wiberals and stweals their vwotes!!
im so sorry :(

but hey, since they said it on the internet, it MUST be true!

and can u give me something that i have lied about in this thread?

i heard that on a talk radio.
so calm down.
if you really want me to waste my time on google, looking for somethingthat doesnt even matter....
i guess i will, if you care so much

20 Amazing Facts About Voting In The United States
By Bob Rowe

1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.

2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the US voting machine industry.

3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

5. 35% of ES&S is owned by Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, who became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, a long-time friend of the Bush family, was caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice- presidential candidates.

8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the US and counts almost 60% of all US votes.

9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

11. Diebold is based in Ohio.

12. Diebold employs 5 convicted felons as developers. These are the people who write the voting machine computer code.

13. Diebold's Senior Vice-President, Jeff Dean, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree.

14. Diebold Senior Vice-President Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie at http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov.)

17. 30% of all US votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail. 18. Bush's Help America Vote Act of 2002 has as its goal to replace all machines with the new electronic touch screen systems with no paper trail.

19. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

20. Major statistical voting oddities (odds on the order of 250 million to 1!) -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated by experts.



have both of those companies swapped from democrat to republican in the last 8 years?

RubiksMaster wrote:>
> Just another conspiracy theory from a liberal
> who is pissed off that his party wasn't good
> enough to win the election.
>
> And where did you get all of these so-called "facts" about voting machines?

I saw the text here first:
http://www.guerrillanews.com/blogs/12824/20_Amazing_Facts_About_Voting_In_The_United_States

> Some of these are quite funny. Like this one:
19. All—not some—but all the voting machine errors detected and reported went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.
> How could anyone know that?

Simple: take all of the "detected and reported" voting machine errors and count how many favor "Bush or Republican candidates" and how many do not; then do some basic math.

A better question (IMO) is: how many errors where detected? - & how? - & by whom?

> Without a paper trail, what proof does anyone have?

Not much... but claims are worth looking into... check this out:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/travis.asp

> And this one:
20. Major statistical voting oddities (odds on the order of 250 million to 1!) -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated by experts.
> Statistics cannot determine human beliefs and emotions (which
> are what voting is based in). Show some matematical proof.

What?
- You are not making any sense.
~If~ (& that is a big IF) it can be shown that people votes where changed to "Bush" when they did not vote for him many times more than the other way around, that would be mathmatical evidence.

> My guess is this guy Bob Rowe who made up these
> "facts" never made it past algebra, and has never
> taken a statistics class in his life.

Interesting guess.
Maybe you are right.
I wish many more people would take a class in statistics.
- It is amazing what non-sense people believe!

> It's hilarious (if not a bit frightening) that you don't
> see the hipocrisy in this statement. You didn't even
> cite your own references, yet you accuse Mr.Jack4WAR
> of preaching his bullshit!

Good point.
- but now I have given a ref. for these "fact" {or mis-info, as the case may (or may not) be} so lets stick to searching for the truth instead of attacking each other, OK?

Anybody else have any good info on this?
Let me know!
Sighris

Just another conspiracy theory from a liberal who is pissed off that his party wasn't good enough to win the election.

And where did you get all of these so-called "facts" about voting machines?


Here is what I guess is the original source:

http://www.coastalpost.com/04/12/02a.htm

Here is something which claims to back up the above:
The following is from:
http://www.teenplanetforums.com/printthread.php?t=9212

The below is a quote (reprint) from the above web-site:

All of what was written above can be, and has been, substantiated.

Here's just a few sources.

1.
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold

2.
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html

3.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...e_company.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html

4.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in632436.shtml
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886

5.
http://www.motherjones.com/commentar...03/03_200.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...4fitrakis.html

6.
http://www.blackboxvoting.com/module...article&sid=26
http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx
http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php

7.
http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm
http://theindependent.com/stories/05...w_hagel27.html

8.
http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html

9.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041...s/pfindex.html

10.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm

11.
http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm

12.
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml

13.
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

14.
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

15.
http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...oc_elexoh.html

16.
http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190

17.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in632436.shtml

18.
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html
http://www.yuricareport.com/Election...sBushIsOut.htm
http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html
http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.ph...icle&sid= 950
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm

19.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...al/7628725.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct29.html

20.
http://www.yuricareport.com/Election...sBushIsOut.htm
http://www.computerworld.com/governm...,97614,00.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...thousands.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html
http://uscountvotes.org

So who wants to look into the above?

to paraphrase al gore:
although i do not agree with the results i support it.

the above was said by al after bush was declared the winner of the 2000 election.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PrwToR2RpEI

- N

Well it is a shame that for some reason the companies that make the software that run on these voting machines get to keep their source code secret as part of a "Trade secret" and no one, not even election officials are allowed to look at it. There's absolutely no reason to go that far as the software they're running is so painfully simple that in about 15 minuets I could make an effective voting machine using nothing but Flash. We're just talking about simple classes and an incremented for Christ’s sake.

I'm not one that's prone to conspiracy theories, in my opinion they're all a bunch of bullshit, but what's infuriating about the 2004 case is that we have the wildly inaccurate exit polling and we have the software with no paper trail, and everything could be laid to rest so very easily, but we're not even allowed to have anyone look into it.

There’s motive, means, and signs that it may well have happened, and we’re supposed to sit here dumbly and buy the line that nothing is wrong without even taking the simple step to check the source code or test the machines. It’s an outrage, really. I like a lot more transparancy in my government - faith based voting isn't something I dig.

Mystech wrote: >
> I'm not one that's prone to conspiracy theories,
> in my opinion they're all a bunch of bullshit, but
> what's infuriating about the 2004 case is that
> we have the wildly inaccurate exit polling and
> we have the software with no paper trail, and
> everything could be laid to rest so very easily, but
> we're not even allowed to have anyone look into it.

I'm not one that is prone to conspiracy theories either, but I try to remember that there was this thing that happened in Germany not to long ago (& similar things in other parts of the world) that I don't want to let happen here in North America (or any where else for that matter).

> There’s motive, means, and signs that it may well
> have happened, and we’re supposed to sit here
> dumbly and buy the line that nothing is wrong
> without even taking the simple step to check
> the source code or test the machines. It’s an
> outrage, really. I like a lot more transparancy
> in my government - faith based voting isn't
> something I dig.

I agree that transparancy in (my) government is what I want.

> - faith based voting isn't something I dig.

Again I agree... sometimes I even feel we should go as far as having an open/public vote... maybe we have reached a time when we should openly declare who we want to be in office, what policies we want voted "yes" on & which ideas/plans/etc we want "veto-ed"... that way we can make sure we are not being tricked (for lack of a better word).

I for the life of me can't figure out why more people aren't up-in-arms over this. I guess when the other party wins the election with what seems like major irregularities, then this issue will be front page news.

It seems that corruption is built into these machines. This isn't a lottery for gosh sakes. It's the will of the people. And being able to change the will of the people with just a line of code...

This system needs oversight. No if, and or buts about it. It's too important to leave in the hands of a few people.