How can Mexico still not have a grip on this? When does it become too much for the citizens? Is this the next Iraq (we go in) or the next Libya (where there is a revolution)

...unidentified men managed to drive two open-back trucks filled with 35 bodies (http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/21/world/americas/mexico-bodies/index.html) through rush-hour traffic and then abandon them, blocking traffic and leaving bodies on the highway....

Um...I've been opining Mexico is going to have a revolution...from two things: One, people I went to college with with family there.

Two, as our economy goes bad, we will less and less serve as a safety valve for social discontent.

Though I guess I could chip in #3, current world recession-it's probably getting worse there, because it's getting harder in most places.

Last night a friend of mine and I were yacking, and I mentioned that the saying that politicians there are paid in silver or lead. In much of Latin America I'm given to understand politicians get bought or they get assassinated.

Subcommandante Marcos seems to think that the Mexican government is merely siding with one cartel, not trying to shut it all down:


With regard to Mexico, Marcos said Calderon decided "with the backing of one gang of drug traffickers, to undertake a war against the other gang," although he did not specify which of the country's numerous drug mobs he was referring to.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=324671&CategoryId=14091

Um...I've been opining Mexico is going to have a revolution...

They've already had one early last century. :eek:

Lol a revolution in Mexico? The Cartels would literally take over the country.

Lol a revolution in Mexico? The Cartels would literally take over the country.

Well, as I said (or rather, Subcommandante Marcos said) the one cartel is apparently the chosen one and the military is practicing selective enforcement?


Hercules Rockefeller

They've already had one early last century.

Yes and I still haven't grasped who all the factions were in that...it seems to have been very complicated.

But as the Teletubbies would say: "Again! Again!"

Mexico should legalize drugs. They could still make money selling drugs to the USA but without the criminal chaos.

Mexico should legalize drugs. They could still make money selling drugs to the USA but without the criminal chaos.

HA!
I would love to see that. License the cartels, legalize them, tax them.

Tourism would skyrocket.

It makes so much sense...

Does Mexico even have any of its own drugs or are tehy simply the middle man?

They grow cannabis and opium. They also have many labs that manufacture methamphetamine and refine opium to heroin. (They also make a bunch of prescription drugs.) They serve as a conduit for other drugs produced in S. America, like cocaine.

Many of the slain are ofttimes displaced S. American natives looking to get into the USA through Mexico who get used by the cartels.

The only real solution is for the USA to legalize all drugs and deal with that problem as a health issue rather than sticking law enforcement with it. If the US were to legalize, Mexico and Canada could be allowed to do the same, many other countries may well be also. Think how much simpler Afghanistan would be to handle if the US weren't trying to carry on its 'drug war' there along with its conflict with the Taliban.

The only real solution is for the USA to legalize all drugs and deal with that problem as a health issue rather than sticking law enforcement with it.

Why not allow for murder , rape and child abuse as well and let the health care deal with them also?

Your solution is very disturbing to me and I say the above only as being sarcasric but I think you understand my point. If the health care has to deal with all the addicts that would cost more than the criminal justice system does today. Imagine having to treat millions of drug related cases that require hospital stays, psychotherapy and a host of other treatments that all will cost trillions of dollars over time to take care of. You think that by shifting the problem from one agency to another that would prevent addiction, crimes and other illegal activity, you are very wrong about that.

Imagine an addict that needs a "fix" and has no money. He goes out and robs someone by pulling a gun out and taking their money. Your idea would be to "treat" him with the health care system instead of putting him behind bars, does that make any sense at all to anyone? What if he had shot the person as well, you would want him hospitalized.:shrug:

Imagine an addict that needs a "fix" and has no money. He goes out and robs someone by pulling a gun out and taking their money.


Why don't we hear of people robbing people for money for cigarettes and alcohol? Heroin, cocaine and meth may kill the user quicker but that is a different issue from the robbery issue. Bad behavior while intoxicated does not create the robbery issue. Alcohol, meth and cocaine cause bad behavior while intoxicated in some people but Heroin does not create bad behavior while intoxicated. The robbery issue is caused by the drugs being illegal and therefore expensive.

Just giving addicts free drugs would be cheaper than treating them with our overpriced incompetent health care system. Giving addicts free drugs is also cheaper than putting dealers in jail.

It is not like we in the USA need these addicts to get cleaned up and become workers. We don't have jobs for Americans who are ready to work because we prefer the cheaper more reliable worker in China and India and the illegal Mexican Immigrants who can't form unions and can't complain when they get crop dusted with pesticides while working in the fields.

Why don't we hear of people robbing people for money for cigarettes and alcohol?
It happens, just less.

Too, drug dealers operate like pawnshops in a way, they will take stolen goods directly in trade.
So the police told me when I got my apartment broken into.

I read a story of a young woman whose dad traded her for crack-took her to the dealer and left her there...

If we legalized it, we could tax it and use the money to fund rehabs to get the willing off of it.
As it is we are funding criminal cartels instead, and artificially inflating the cost of their product by making it illegal. Also wasting billions on locking people up and drug enforcement that just serves to drive up the cost, meaning more people will risk selling it, meaning more to lock up...a vicious cycle.

Stupid.

so its the US's fault for keeping drugs illegal? Why isn't it Mexico's fault? If teh US is to blame, why aren't we having the wholesale slaughter of people that Mexico is?

so its the US's fault for keeping drugs illegal? Why isn't it Mexico's fault? If teh US is to blame, why aren't we having the wholesale slaughter of people that Mexico is?

Fault? blame?
Laying blame doesn't usually better any situation, does it?
Doing something different gets different results.

...Your solution is very disturbing to ...

I agree

Why not allow for murder , rape and child abuse as well and let the health care deal with them also?...

Well Cosmic, this is old ground for the 2 of us now. As you have been informed on many occasions, there is a major difference between your choosing to ingest a substance and your choosing to attack another person. The comparison is irrational, you are comparing apples to albatross. :shrug:

I understand that this is a significant personal issue for you and that seems to impede your obtaining a broader perspective of this issue. However, once again with great feeling:

Prohibition does not work. It has never worked, it is not working now and after more than 80 years of substance prohibition in the USA it still does not work. It is incredibly expensive though, not just in dollars but a myriad other ways as well. We cannot afford to keep trying the same thing that doesn't do what it is supposed to do.

Mexico sells drugs and oil to the US to get its money. The demand for these in the US is why Mexico sells them to the US. The drug violence is due to the immense profits to be had from the artificially inflated prices US prohibition has created. The violence is powered by the US guns that US dealers smuggle into Mexico in trade for the dollars that US drug buyers send to the Mexican cartels. We cannot stop the flow of guns into Mexico and we cannot stop the flow of drugs from Mexico into the US.

All of this is powered by the US federal governments continuing attempt to repeal the law of supply and demand with prohibition. This is all very straightforward economics. I have cited my sources often here, will be glad to do so again if anyone wants me to.

Your solution is very disturbing to me...

Of course it is. Any new thing that has not been tried before is going to disturb people - especially very conservative people who do not understand the nuances of a complex problem. When what you have been doing for a long time and great expense to fix something just doesn't work though, you really need to try something else. Otherwise you just continue to fail, throwing good money after bad and in this case, ruining peoples lives without profit to anyone. (excepting the interdiction/judicial/incarceration industry, of course)

Drug "problems" are a matter of personal health and well being though, and should be treated as such.

Mexico should legalize drugs