"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." St. Thomas Aquinas

Very relevant still.

Oh my God, that is very profound. Thats very true...Wow, and i thought I am smarter than him, LOL. Thats knowledge, indeed, wisdom comes from God...

Wow....very very profound...

Should be:
"To one who has faith, the explanation given is automatically accepted as the answer. To one without faith, the explanation given is flawed, so they are damned to Hell by all Christians."

Interesting quote, but like Vakemp mentioned it's not really applicable. It's not the acceptance of the explanation that matters, but the accuracy of the explanation given.

Here's one for whatsupyall:

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is
shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods." - Albert Einstein

very nice quote indeed.

Well, I'm not a christian, but I really liked the quote. It points out that faith is really the only issue. In matters beyond religion too. Because we can never really prove anything to be true or false, real or unreal. All we can do is to have faith in what we are able to perceive and comprehend. And even have faith in matters we don't perceive nor comprehend.
For example, you have faith in that planes can fly, even though you don't understand exactly how it is done. In the same way you can have faith in a God, or whatever you want to call it, because you can experience yourself as being part of its construction, just like being in the plane while it's flying.
You can construct the thought of it being a possible reality in your mind, because you have faith in your minds ability to perceive experinces as a credible reality.

Thank you Bebelina, it is nice knowing somebody here have common sense...I get frustrated most of the time because I cant even get through COMMON SENSE debating against MOST atheists here, but its nice knowing somebody have COMMON SENSE. Your a smart person indeed (Like Einstein compared to other atheists here).

Xelios,


Interesting quote, but like Vakemp mentioned it's not really applicable. It's not the acceptance of the explanation that matters, but the accuracy of the explanation given.

Sorry, that's wrong. You don't know the definition of faith, do you?

Hebrews 11:1-3
"1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
2 For by it the men of old gained approval.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. "

Thank you whatsupyall, for your considerable superiority and your Enlightening us in how dumb we all were, and how we must all sit at your feet and lick your Sacred boots in the hope that some of the Good Faith will rub off on us.

Now you shall explain to us, with the power and knowledge of your god vested in you by means of pure, blind faith, just how it is impossible to prove anything correct by scientific and logical means. And just how, exactly, does your god explain logic? If you give me any explanation like "logic is conformity to the grace of god" I will heartily THWAP you on the head.

Bebelina is welcome to try to explain it as well.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

The result of using faith consistently is the complete inability to think. Without any criteria for accepting a statement as true, every random idea, whether true or false, would be just as likely to be accepted. Contradictions would exist. No higher-level abstractions could be made. Faith nullifies the mind. To the degree ideas are taken on faith, the process of thinking is subverted.

Faith is an act of mental destruction. If there is no evidence for a claim, then accepting it is irrational. It is more likely to be false then true (since there are more false ideas then true ones, being that there is only one reality). Building a structure of knowledge on such a flimsy foundation will leave it shaky and unstable. Eventually, even if confronted with evidence against it, one's mind will be so dependent on the belief that fear of one's world view collapsing will encourage one to reject the evidence. When this happens, one acts against reality. This is an act of destruction.

Some of my personal favorites:




'Faith is a continuation of reason.'


~ William Adams ~

------------------------------------



'Faith is not belief without proof, but trust without reservation.'


~ Elton Trueblood ~

-------------------------------------


'The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief.'


~ Thomas Russell ~




><>

Originally posted by Cris
The result of using faith consistently is the complete inability to think. Without any criteria for accepting a statement as true, every random idea, whether true or false, would be just as likely to be accepted. Contradictions would exist. No higher-level abstractions could be made. Faith nullifies the mind. To the degree ideas are taken on faith, the process of thinking is subverted.

Yes thats why I have faith in God WHO IS EVIDENT, and not have faith on claims that HAVE NO evidence at all, called "Atheism"...Thats why Im a christian...:)



Originally posted by Cris
[
Faith is an act of mental destruction. If there is no evidence for a claim, then accepting it is irrational. It is more likely to be false then true (since there are more false ideas then true ones, being that there is only one reality).

No, Faith in proofless claim is an act of mental destruction, faith in things that are evident such as God isnt..
Your right, there is no evidence for your claim, SO ACCEPTING IT IS IRRATIONAL, AS YOU WOULD PUT IT, AND ILL ADD UP TO SAY THAT IT IS ALSO STUPID AND PATHETIC...Yes IT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE FALSE THAN TRUE, THATS WHY IM A CHRISTIAN, BECAUSE I AM NOT IRRATIONAL LIKE YOU...


Originally posted by Cris
[
Building a structure of knowledge on such a flimsy foundation will leave it shaky and unstable. Eventually, even if confronted with evidence against it, one's mind will be so dependent on the belief that fear of one's world view collapsing will encourage one to reject the evidence. When this happens, one acts against reality. This is an act of destruction.

YES, YOUR RIGHT, AND I CAN SEE THE RESULT OF THAT DESTRUCTION ON ATHEIST PEEPS, AND OTHER DELUSIONAL BIBLE CHRISTIANS WHO TAKE REVELATION AND SYMBOLIC PARABLES LITERALLY..


THANKS CRIS FOR CLARYFYING HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE TO PUT FAITH IN ATHEISM, HAVING FAITH THAT THERE IS NO GOD WHEN THE FACT IS NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTS THIS CLAIM, SO THANK YOU...YOU RMAKING ME SO PROUD OF BEING A CHRISTIAN :).

O Great and Foremost Sage, Humanitarian and Philanthropist Whatsup, I Revere Your Holiness!!!

Good grief, prove to me how god is evident, how atheism has no evidence at all.

In other words, prove to me how god is evident, and how god is NOT evident. Sure I'm atheist but I challenge EVERYONE here to attempt to produce a cogent, logical, and plausible post that is REPEATEDLY testable by physical phenomena. After hours of futile attempt you will realize just WHY these stupid posts go nowhere. There's just no point in two parties growling and hissing at each other, only BOLSTERING the negative views they have of each other and achieving absolutely NOTHING. Gimme a break this is like being in high school english "discussion".

Bebelina, if you started this post without knowing that people would troll each other you might want to be ashamed of your lack of common sense. If you started this on purpose to get trolling to start, you should be seriously ashamed of yourself as a sciforums veteran. Repeated topics like these will not leave any good feelings nor any constructive discussion. Nor will they help your image.


__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

Originally posted by Zero
O Great and Foremost Sage, Humanitarian and Philanthropist Whatsup, I Revere Your Holiness!!!

Sure I'm atheist but I challenge EVERYONE here to attempt to produce a cogent, logical, and plausible post that is REPEATEDLY testable by physical phenomena..[/size]


__________________________________________[/i] [/B]

Zero, how do u determine what is physical phenomena and what is non physical? Answer me kid...

Oh Great and Profoundly Wise Sage, my humble and insignificant answer is in the Evolution thread.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

Of course if any religion had any evidence they could use reason for their claims and faith would be unnecessary.

Theists are forced to make a BIG fuss about faith, and pretend it means something special, because they have nothing of substance on which to base a reasoned argument.

Without evidence reason cannot be used. And that leaves only empty blind faith - the path of the gullible the ignorant and the mindless.

The more noise theists make about faith then the greater the certainty we can have that they have no evidence on which to base their claims.

Love... That's the center of our thoughts, our feelings, our will...
The center of our "religion"...

Originally posted by whatsupyall
Thank you Bebelina, it is nice knowing somebody here have common sense...I get frustrated most of the time because I cant even get through COMMON SENSE debating against MOST atheists here, but its nice knowing somebody have COMMON SENSE. Your a smart person indeed (Like Einstein compared to other atheists here).

Ahh, common sense, the trademark of all hegemonic ideologies.

What can be accomplished by a few principles is not effected by many. But it seems that everything we see in the world can be accounted for by other principles, supposing God did not exist. For all natural things can be reduced to one principle, which is nature, and all voluntary things can be reduced to one principle, which is human reason, or will. Therefore there is no need to suppose God's existence. -- ST Thomas Aquinas --

Very relevant still.

Bebelina,


It points out that faith is really the only issue. Only issue? I think you have seriously misunderstood how you and other people really think.


In matters beyond religion too. There are no circumstances when faith should be used instead of reason.


Because we can never really prove anything to be true or false, real or unreal.Perhaps, but we can base our beliefs on things where there is substantial and credible evidence, and when evidence is lacking then we can withhold belief; there is rarely if ever a case for the reasonable person to ever make a decision based on faith.


All we can do is to have faith in what we are able to perceive and comprehend.Faith is never needed if the perceptions and comprehension are based on evidence.


And even have faith in matters we don't perceive nor comprehend. And that is extremely dangerous.


For example, you have faith in that planes can fly, even though you don't understand exactly how it is done. This could be called faith if you were the first person to ever fly in a plane. However, you know very well that millions of people have successfully flown in planes. So here you are not using faith but the vast evidence of past successful flyers.


In the same way you can have faith in a God, or whatever you want to call it, because you can experience yourself as being part of its construction, just like being in the plane while it's flying.No this is entirely different. Such beliefs are not based on the vast evidence I have described for flying in a plane. These beliefs are not based on evidence but speculative imagination only.


You can construct the thought of it being a possible reality in your mind, because you have faith in your minds ability to perceive experinces as a credible reality.This seems to say that if you can imagine something then it must be real. I’m sure you don’t need me to explain the error in that.

whatsup.


The result of using faith consistently is the complete inability to think.

Thats why Im a christian.. QED.


Faith is an act of mental destruction. If there is no evidence for a claim, then accepting it is irrational. It is more likely to be false then true (since there are more false ideas then true ones, being that there is only one reality).

Yes IT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE FALSE THAN TRUE, THATS WHY IM A CHRISTIAN, QED.


Building a structure of knowledge on such a flimsy foundation will leave it shaky and unstable. Eventually, even if confronted with evidence against it, one's mind will be so dependent on the belief that fear of one's world view collapsing will encourage one to reject the evidence. When this happens, one acts against reality. This is an act of destruction.

YOU RMAKING ME SO PROUD OF BEING A CHRISTIANQED.

truthseeker,


Love... That's the center of our thoughts, our feelings, our will...
The center of our "religion"...Love is a very overrated and transient emotion that very few actually need, not many achieve, but an enormous number believe they need because of false perceptions generated by puerile ideologies.

Love has a specific place and value. Do not elevate it to a level it doesn't deserve. Experience and history shows us that anything to excess tends to result in abuse.

There is very much more to life than just love.

That was pretty funny, Cris. He couldn't possibly be for real, could he?

He is so screwed up I don't know what he is.

But he messes around with everyone else's posts, deliberately, and takes quotes out of context, that I just thought he might like to see how it feels. However he did say these things, and pretty much in context, I just don’t think he knows what he is saying.

Cris,

Love is not an emotion... What people call "love" is actually even selfish. This "love" was created by the media, it is not the True Love.

The True Love is:

1 Corinthians 13


The Excellence of Love

"1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. "

Originally posted by Cris
Bebelina,
There are no circumstances when faith should be used instead of reason.


Reason itself requires faith..You can reject reason, like you always do, or accept it and have faith in it, your choice...


Im sorry but I MUST post this...



THE TOP 10 OF THE ATHEISM'S ARGUMENT AGAINST GOD, ALL QUOTED FROM THE WRITINGS OF ATHEISTS HERE....Summary of atheists argument, the outcome from all the debates...

1. Atheist says "To have faith means to believe in myths", so faith is illogic...(LOL, got brain?)

2. Atheist says "Nature is super duper LUCK! In other words "Chance"!", (no evidence supports this claim of "possibility")..

3. Atheists says "All christians are killers and perverts! Therefore there is no God!", (Are u ok?)...

4. Atheists says "The word "Knowing" means establishing, controlling, and Doing! Therefore God cant be all knowing!! Because knowing something means contolling something!!", (just plain stupid).....

5. Atheists says "You have no proof of God!", (although tons of evidence are given)...

6. Atheists says "Theory means FACT! And needs no faith! Because theory is another word for PURE EVIDENCE!!", (just plain delusional)...

7. Atheists says "I am very smart!! And I know what Im talking about!!", (another false remark)....

8. Atheists says "I dont make a claim, you do, so prove your claim, otherwise God is a myth"...(Wait a minute, u said u dont make claim, but then said "God is a myth", isnt that a claim? Now do u have a proof of yur claim?).

9. Atheists says "Evolution contradicts God"...(When it doesnt, only 2 those who take the bible literally)...


And let the drums roll, for the best and the last comment atheists will say concerning God.........((((((((((drums rolling)))))))))))..

Well here it is...

10. Atheist says "Prove to me Giant purple squid monkeys, fuzzy pink elephant dont exist", (TENG DENG! This is the best of the best of atheism's argument against God, a IGNORANT and illogic pointless comment, is their best argument)...


HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING LOGIC ABOVE? HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING THAT IS "TRUTHFULL"? HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING "SCIENTIFIC" ABOVE? LOL, ASK ATHEIST AND THEY WILL SAY "YES, ALL THOSE MAKE SENSE"....LOL...

I don't know why the fuck I'm responding to this. I honestly don't know. *hides stub of crack behind mouse*

1. To have faith=accept something to be true without bothering to confirm. This works very well only if the source is reliable and has gone RIGOROUS review. Which is the case for scientific theories but not for religion. I've never seen parts of the bible get thrown out for not withstanding physical phenomena tests. I've seen entire books of science get rejected. LOL, got brains?

2. Depends on what you call luck. Try the experiment of the origin of life and you'll get results. Simulate the atmosphere of the earth at the beginning and give it electric shocks. You will be able to pick up amino acids forming from it. Now that's "luck" for you.

3.?? Since when did atheists say this? Are you confusing logical atheist arguments with antichristian people disguising themselves as born-again atheists? Are you OK?

4. Agree with the knowing part, but I don't get how you connect it with god is not allknowing part. Please explain "our" arguments further.

5. Tons of evidence? Sorry but we require testable and reproduceable phenomena. I do believe jesus refuses to test the lord when he is tempted by satan. That is basically a statement refusing it. That is, in turn, an open admission that you can't give evidence.
But frankly who cares if there is evidence or not? As long as it works for you you shouldn't care. Play by your rules. Your faith in your god must be weak for you to tout "tons of evidence" in favor of him.

6. Theory=a wellsubstantiated and plausible explanation for some aspect of the natural world supported by reproduceable physical phenomena. The formal definition is miles away from what you think it is. You note, that any theory sciience has now can be ditched and trashed the moment it is proven false by physical evidence. No matter how pretty it is, if evidence proves otherwise it has to go. That's how Einstein ripped out Newtonian mechanics and reduced it into an approximation. He proved his theory to be the real mechanics and newtonian mech to be an approximation for low speeds.

Well, for now. Until another nutter comes and proves einstein false...see? Where does faith fit in the picture?


7. This also applies to any human. Including you. Including me. And my family. Your family. The janitor where you teach catechisms. The nice old lady next door. If people didn't have that to back them up they'd never make progress. Yell at me for more information if you need it. I'd be happy to explain.

8. I think I explained this one above. Again, yell if you need more explaining.

9.?? Since when do atheists say THAT? I thought it was creationists who say that...please explain for me?

10. This is atheists pulling your leg to get you to yell more so that they'll be amused. A rather amusing pastime I must admit.

The thing is, a supreme and superior being ruling over us all will never be proved nor disproved. Reality is in your own mind. IF you've never heard of me, you'd be able to disprove my existence. Or prove it, for that matter. See? So christianity and atheism is a matter of personal choice, not about barging into sciforums and yelling in all caps.




__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Some athiest quotes I've collected here and there, this should even the battlefield...


"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow human instead of a god."

- And Jesus said unto them, "And whom do you say that I am?"
They replied, "You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of our being, the ontological foundation of the context of our very selfhood revealed."
And Jesus replied, "What?"

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself. "

"The church says that the Earth is flat, but I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the shadow than in the church."

"Fear is your only god."

"The reason I know I am God is because one day as I was praying, I realized I was talking to myself."

"The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of resoning."

"If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question."

"If Jesus was hung, would we pray to a rope?"

"If God didn't exist, it would be neccesary to many to invent him."

"Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church." :D

"Humanity's first sin was faith; the first virtue was doubt."

"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of the astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy."

"I think the only power higher than myself is the power of all of us combined"

"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."

"not length of life; depth of life"

"He who has so little knowledge of human nature as to seek happiness by changing anything but his own disposition will waste his life in fruitless efforts and multiply the grief which he purposes to remove"

"Celebrate your existence"

"A belief is not merely an idea that the mind possesses; it is an idea that possesses the mind"

"It often takes more courage to change one's opinion than to stick to it"

"For me the greatest beauty always lay in the greatest clarity"

"Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence. "

"For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us"

Bebelina, I still await your reply.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Zero, awright nice try. But you know as you stated stated that you have probably wasted your time.

Notme, great stuff.

There's the fun game of following a futile cause for the heck of it.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Someone has pointed out to me that perhaps not everyone knows what QED means.

QED comes from latin “quod erat demonstrandum” meaning which was to be demonstrated, or we did what we set out to do.

In mathematics when one constructs a formal proof it is common practice to end the final conclusion with QED. Effectively meaning I have proved my case. At least it was common when I was at school. But that was in England several decades ago.

I wish I had time to read it all, and respond too, but I have a big performance to do on sunday and I have to practice, but a quick glance at what has been said so far only confirms the validity of the qoute I posted.
Now, don't misunderstand me here, I don't think it's a good thing to have blind faith in whatever comes your way, but it's not good to don't have any faith at all either. But that's really besides the issue. The issue was pointing out how different people react depending on their perceptions. And you have followed those directions exactly. The atheists have denied everything, and the religious have complied immediately. :D

Zero, don't write me anymore pm:s saying that I'm making a fool out of myself. You are, by mailing me such nonsense. I never make a fool out of myself, no need to make myself into something I already am. :D

People, you are taking this way too seriously.

Originally posted by Bebelina
"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." St. Thomas Aquinas

Very relevant still.

how interesting, however, the second half doesn't seem to make any sense. A person can accept an explanation without faith easily.

http://members.truepath.com/sapphoo/horse.gif

That is just the atheist in you talking.

care to explain why i wouldn't be able to accept an explanation without faith? I'm too atheist to see the point

http://members.truepath.com/sapphoo/horse.gif

Well, no explanation is possible...

ah well...as long as god knows what he is talking about
http://members.truepath.com/sapphoo/horse.gif

Are you sure?

i'm not sure, but other people seem to be sure...that is surely enough to be sure.

http://members.truepath.com/sapphoo/horse.gif

Nice homepage btw. Always nice to see a neighbour in here.

it's all one big happy family nowadays in the world...except for soem idiots who like blowing up thiings
http://members.truepath.com/sapphoo/horse.gif

Originally posted by Bebelina
I wish I had time to read it all, and respond too, but I have a big performance to do on sunday and I have to practice, but a quick glance at what has been said so far only confirms the validity of the qoute I posted.
Now, don't misunderstand me here, I don't think it's a good thing to have blind faith in whatever comes your way, but it's not good to don't have any faith at all either. But that's really besides the issue. The issue was pointing out how different people react depending on their perceptions. And you have followed those directions exactly. The atheists have denied everything, and the religious have complied immediately. :D

Zero, don't write me anymore pm:s saying that I'm making a fool out of myself. You are, by mailing me such nonsense. I never make a fool out of myself, no need to make myself into something I already am. :D

People, you are taking this way too seriously.




Ah, but do you fail to realize you've set off a bomb her by blatantly putting up a religious quote? Are you so out of touch as to not feel the current climate? Are you on crack?

And I would've send a second pm to you but I am not sure it might go through to you so I won't.

Just be ashamed of yourself as a senior member.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

You're so out of line that you have no idea, Zero.
So you think that because of the "current climate" we should be quiet about things that might upset the masses? Ooooh, don't post a religious qoute, because that automatically makes it a stupid one...or what?
You be ashamed of yourself, as the zero you truly are, failing to think beyond your very limited perceptions.

What climate?

And although I don't agree with the Aquinas quote, I see what the dude was trying to say.

As the zero I truly am? Now you're quoting whatmuscles. Give me a break. And do stop the crack.

The way you just randomly posted a random religious quote does NOT help any form of decent discussion whatsoever. I did not see any intelligent question posed. So I would conclude you had no point in posting it. That, Bebelina, is useless.

You obviously haven't been around the Religion section often to react like that. Just for fun, may I ask how I have limited perceptions? At least I saw what it would do, unlike you, who just randomy fired off that quote and marched off to non-Religion sciforums territory.

Appears to me that you are reacting much like my younger cousin whenever she's scolded for something she did wrong. And she's in junior high, so need I say more?

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

I just noticed, really quite cool how the color of your posts changes so much.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Well, dear zero, I was awaiting your evil reply. But, you see, you are wrong. Let me tell you why...
First of all, I'm not on crack, but since you mention it so often, then maybe you have a secret desire to actually use the stuff, or maybe you already are and are trying to cover for it, by accusing others for using it.
Second, it was not a random quote, it was not posted in a random manner. I found the qoute in another forum, read it, thought about it, and found it wortwhile to copy. Then I decided that I should share my epiphany with my fellow sciforumers, to see what they made of it.
A post does not need to include a question to be useful. It can have a statement that rises questions within the people who reads it. And as you have seen, it did, many questions and a debate. You seem frightened by the thought of getting a debate in here? Why is that? Isn't that what a forum is all about, besides the social qualities it offers?
You see, I'm not a nervous poster of any kind, I can let my replies await. I suck on them like fine candy. And then, when you think I'm gone, when you least expect me, then I will rise out of the shadows with my merciless kill.
Like now.
I haven't checked the dates, but I've been here long enough to see what reactions any kind of post could bring. That is why I like posting things that will provide at the best, a mindboggle. I thought this quote quite filled the description very well for a postable post.
Did I get scoulded? No, not by any means. By who? Except for your admirable efforts then..
And even if they tried, they would not succeed, because deep down in their hearts they know, as do you, that I am far wiser than any of them and their tiny yielding are only expression of their desire to be seen by the divine, that's me then. :D
I have not read anything by this whatmuscles character, but the zero thing was quite obvious anyway. A retard could have figured that one out, which makes me wonder why you chose that user name in the first place....

How, you have limited perception, I really don't know. Go ask your parents about your upbringing, maybe they can give you some answers.
But in this case it's merely is because you fail to take any of the above even into consideration.

:)

Yes, that's it, think cool and other terms like that in combination with my name. :D

I'm only hoping that the part about your being wiser than everyone is a joke. *shudder*

Fine, fine, first read up on my offer. pm.

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There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

To my defence, since you seem particularly upset about this, I did not know the qoute was religious.

I'm upset about the uproar this caused. I don't care if it's religious. In fact, I actually like the fact that mommy has turned christian. Good for her, she found a stable ground to build on. As for my dad, he's the quiet atheist. He never gets into arguments and doesn't care at all.

Me? Hm. More towards my dad's attitude.

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There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Aha, I understand.

Good to hear.

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There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Beb,


because deep down in their hearts they know, as do you, that I am far wiser than any of them and their tiny yielding are only expression of their desire to be seen by the divine, that's me then. Well of course you are and we all love you really.
:rolleyes:

I know you do, Cris. :D

Look what you did, you distracted me from practising. :rolleyes:

Ahhh, it's all in the mind really.;)

I'll throw my hat into the ring and offer my opinion on FAITH.

- I have faith in God...doesn't mean He exists.
- I have faith that Jesus is the Son of God...doesn't mean He was.
- I have faith that the Bible is the Word of God...doesn't mean it is.
- I have faith in myself...doesn't mean I wont let myself down.
- I have faith in my wife...doesn't mean she won't let me down.
- I have faith in my kids...doesn't mean they won't make mistakes.
- I have faith in my church...doesn't mean it's infailable.
- I have faith in mankind...doesn't mean it won't ever hurt me.
- I have faith in our justice system...doesn't mean it's always fair.
- I have faith in our government...doesn't mean it's faultless.

I have faith in alot of things, and my doing so is based on both 'personal opinion and experience'. Taking a stance on any subject and making an argument of support or denial IS PROOF of someone having put FAITH in something, somewhere along the line in what they've either read or heard. I contend, that only with, in or by FAITH can-and-do any of us exist as human beings.
In regard to what people have put faith in; there is no right, there is no wrong. Faith is personal, unique (cannot be duplicated) and varies in degree from one individual to the next.

So, let's not argue faith, or anyones ability to have it....in anything. After all, none of us would enjoy this life very much without it!

~ Disciple of Jesus

Disciple,


- I have faith in God...doesn't mean He exists.
- I have faith that Jesus is the Son of God...doesn't mean He was.
- I have faith that the Bible is the Word of God...doesn't mean it is.
- I have faith in myself...doesn't mean I wont let myself down.
- I have faith in my wife...doesn't mean she won't let me down.
- I have faith in my kids...doesn't mean they won't make mistakes.
- I have faith in my church...doesn't mean it's infailable.
- I have faith in mankind...doesn't mean it won't ever hurt me.
- I have faith in our justice system...doesn't mean it's always fair.
- I have faith in our government...doesn't mean it's faultless.But you list these claims of faith as if they can all be considered in the same manner but that is not true.

The first three -


- I have faith in God...doesn't mean He exists.
- I have faith that Jesus is the Son of God...doesn't mean He was.
- I have faith that the Bible is the Word of God...doesn't mean it is. Cannot be achieved through direct experience of the object involved.

Whereas all the others provide direct corroborative experience. E.g. You know most times you don't let yourself down, you know your wife doesn't let you down most times, the government usually works ok, mankind has shown itself to do some fabulous things, you usually enjoy your church meetings etc., your kids are usally pretty good, the justice system has been shown to work far more often than it fails.

The two groups represent fundamental, qualitatively and quantitatively different meanings for the term of faith.

The claims for a god, a divine savior, and a divine book, are all believed without any direct evidence or experience unlike all the other statements.


After all, none of us would enjoy this life very much without it!But most use the term when it refers to things we truly know. Religions have hijacked the word and convinced/brainwashed you into thinking it means something else that cannot be justified by any other means.

Greetings Cris -

Thanks for your well written reply and I do understand what you're saying to me. Also, I do agree wholeheartedly with your 'collaberative experience' example. However, I think I must have failed a bit when writing the post you've replied to, in making my point equally understandable.

I'll summarize my thoughts by writing; I do believe, that because 'perceptions in and degrees of faith' are so variable from one individual to the next, that faith is NOT something that can be accurately measured or defined. In my opinion, faith is one of few topics that people would be best-off to consider too 'individually unique in definition' to effectively apply reason and/or logic in debate. In other words, it's one of those 'cat chasing its tail' type topics that finds its debators spinning in circles in attempt to effeciently express their thoughts.

As you know I am a Christian man, and personally putting faith in that indeed there is one God and that Jesus is the Son of God, is essential in belief. If and when asked to, I share my beliefs and faith with someone whom is interested in hearing them. I hold no contempt nor malice towards those whom do not believe the way I do. In fact, for the Christian man, doing so is sinful as both contempt and malice often share 'hate' as a common denomonator. I respect all and only expect the same in return. I believe that God loves all of mankind as a father would his children. Subsequently, I am to love all of mankind as a brother would his siblings. To me that's not an option, but rather a mandate I must fulfill. Of course, as with any 'sibling' relationship, it's not always easy to do and there are often differences in opinion that strain it. At any rate, it's by faith in God that I do (to a greater degree than most) and I've been more than happy in abiding.

I'll close this post with a quote, that for me (being a Christian), depicts what having faith in God means:

"Faith is the abandonment of mans own security and the readiness to find security only in the unseen beyond, in God." - Rudolf Bultmann

Thanks Again Cris -

~ Disciple of Jesus