So we get all these posts with people suggesting aliens exist, so I decided now you have you own subforum perhaps we need the inverse.

Alien's Do Not Exist!

My argument is pretty simple.
======================
If a species was to ever get to the point where it was sufficiently technologically advanced, they would end up creating the very universe in which they exist.

This means they wouldn't leave things to chance, in fact it might be queried as to whether life should be allowed to evolve elsewhere (using an evolution algorithm) but country leaders and the Millitary's would likely transpire that "Not having to worry about unknown factors" would mean never having to worry about competing for resources or dealing with a potentially more advanced hostile.

In essence the decision would be "Not to allow other lifeforms to emerge in a universe of our own creation".

So the next time you hear some BS story about aliens and pose UFO's as being alien in origin, at least anticipate that Aliens Do Not Exist.

Your argument is clearly flawed. since the aliens would be capable of creating/adapting a perfect universe in which they allowed no potentially hostile forms to develop they would be in danger of getting bored. They would therefore create another universe where chance and chaos were important elements. This would provide a playground for them. The existence of this universe, where chance and chaos are important elements, is clear evidence for the existence of aliens.

Your argument is clearly flawed. since the aliens would be capable of creating/adapting a perfect universe in which they allowed no potentially hostile forms to develop they would be in danger of getting bored. They would therefore create another universe where chance and chaos were important elements. This would provide a playground for them. The existence of this universe, where chance and chaos are important elements, is clear evidence for the existence of aliens.

Ah but you miss the Quid pro Quota point of your own statement. If such an alien group made a universe for a playground as a secondary, what's to say that the universe they initially exist in couldn't be hijacked by the other entities using the same reasoning.

Incidentally if you build an Infinite Open universe, what would be the purpose of creating other universes, there would be plenty to do in the current one.

Incidentally if you build an Infinite Open universe, what would be the purpose of creating other universes, there would be plenty to do in the current one.For the inverseof the reason Mallory gave for climbing Mount Everest: because it isn't there.

Alien's Do Not Exist!

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/65x5a7luxjll.gif
I think your unsupported supposition and illogical reasoned thread belongs in the philosophical sub-forum.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/65x5a7luxjll.gif
I think your unsupported supposition and illogical reasoned thread belongs in the philosophical sub-forum.

It shouldn't be moved to a sceance thread for being too sceancy... It's a valid POV, in fact I'll use the same scientific method of proving the fact (Previously used by conventional woo-woo's) by asking any aliens that exist to show themselves in this thread within the next 30 seconds or forever not exist.

Look (at time) No aliens!

I have been reliably informed that a breach in the chronosynclastic infundibulum has delayed them in Dresden.

can of hard to show that aliens don't exist

since from Sumarians to the bible , paintings , pyramids both in Egpt and south America ,military and to observations from the public

to think that there are no aliens visiting this planet is a bit of a stretch

in reality

a mind-set of the impossibility of aliens existence could be getting in the way , of the reality that they do exist

My argument is pretty simple.
======================
If a species was to ever get to the point where it was sufficiently technologically advanced, they would end up creating the very universe in which they exist.


what happens to the one they lived in prior to advancement?
do they dump it in a used universe lot?

Look (at time) No aliens!

You can not prove they don't exist. On the other hand you could try to explain the pyramids....

can of hard to show that aliens don't exist

since from Sumarians to the bible , paintings , pyramids both in Egpt and south America ,military and to observations from the public

to think that there are no aliens visiting this planet is a bit of a stretch

in reality

a mind-set of the impossibility of aliens existence could be getting in the way , of the reality that they do exist

Didn't you know?

Stuff like this. . .
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JUcWauAPa8o/TgIha2i2o0I/AAAAAAAAEf4/XUMLj3guCpU/s400/magnetism+crop+circles.jpg
Is purposely put here to test your faith in science and our manufactured reality.


You can not prove they don't exist. On the other hand you could try to explain the pyramids....

Haven't they told you? There is already a dogma to explain the fragmented info on ancient sites. They call these high priests of our past archeologists, anthropologists, and in the case of Egypt, there is a specialty called Egyptology. They will tell you what your past was. They are scientists. Have faith. They will interpret the data according to the least unsettling and most common agreed upon reality paradigm. Usually in the Western world? The church's. God and aliens? They usually haven't been compatible. I wasn't taught about E.T.'s a whole lot in my religious education. That's was never in the Christian church's world view. And like it or not, that bleeds through to the world view of mainstream culture, atheist or not. We are alone, on top, in our own universe. If we can't conceive of a science that would make interstellar travel possible? It can't exist. If we cannot imagine why aliens would not make themselves know to all the peoples of Earth? They cannot exist. Etc, etc, etc.

its been proven life can exsist in space. there has been rocks found with what looks like exo skeletons on them.. if you ask a scientist what it was and say it was from earth they would say just that.. but if you say its from mars they suddenly change there answer. and to think there is no life outside our planet is just plain ignorance

its been proven life can exsist in space. Dear me. No, it hasn't. If you think it has then please provide appropriate citations.


. there has been rocks found with what looks like exo skeletons on them..Incorrect. If you think it is, then please provide appropriate citations.


. if you ask a scientist what it was and say it was from earth they would say just that.. but if you say its from mars they suddenly change there answer. Bollocks. If you think you are correct then, etc.



. and to think there is no life outside our planet is just plain ignoranceOn the contrary. To have a firm opinion either way about other life is a display of ignorance.

its been proven life can exsist in space. there has been rocks found with what looks like exo skeletons on them.. if you ask a scientist what it was and say it was from earth they would say just that.. but if you say its from mars they suddenly change there answer. and to think there is no life outside our planet is just plain ignorance

Actually the topic at hand is "aliens" which would require multiple beings traveling somewhere. It would be more easily dismissed had the OP used criteria limited to visitations to Earth.
Instead he foolishly uses the Universe as the bounds of discussion and then tries to psychoanalyze some imaginary model of what aliens 'should' be.

I guess in the new subforums even the science guys leave logic at the door.

Actually the topic at hand is "aliens" which would require multiple beings traveling somewhere. It would be more easily dismissed had the OP used criteria limited to visitations to Earth.
Instead he foolishly uses the Universe as the bounds of discussion and then tries to psychoanalyze some imaginary model of what aliens 'should' be.

I guess in the new subforums even the science guys leave logic at the door.
That's why I told him to stick it in philosophy.

Aliens existence.dunno. could be government cover ups. but I've got some pictures today of something and have seen ufo's through out my life. I also have been genetically altered and am not just human. yes , I've proven this to others who have seen me and agree. If this is alien tampering and they come down to certain people than what I am proof of can only fall in the catagory that aliens are altering us for a reason and why they also maybe protecting certain people. that is a assumption and I do not speak for government or aliens. only that i have not been able to understand what is going on with my body and the doctors i see can not answer the questions with a answer that explains this. also they do avoidance because they think im crazy I believe because you do not avoid a clients questions and that is what I get.:rolleyes: I just want answers and understanding to what is happening to me. why do I and others with me experience ufo's? why do I have different body parts that do not exists in human history as far as I know. I've been searching for years , keeping quiet for the most part. but I am fed up with not knowing and not having answers.

my biggest fear is of their abilities to shake a whole car and it feels like after the dash board lights went out, like my very body was vibrating and would come apart.:bawl:

Why would aliens want to create a new universe? Why would it be easier to live in a created universe?

So we get all these posts with people suggesting aliens exist, so I decided now you have you own subforum perhaps we need the inverse.

Alien's Do Not Exist!

My argument is pretty simple.
======================
If a species was to ever get to the point where it was sufficiently technologically advanced, they would end up creating the very universe in which they exist.

This means they wouldn't leave things to chance, in fact it might be queried as to whether life should be allowed to evolve elsewhere (using an evolution algorithm) but country leaders and the Millitary's would likely transpire that "Not having to worry about unknown factors" would mean never having to worry about competing for resources or dealing with a potentially more advanced hostile.

In essence the decision would be "Not to allow other lifeforms to emerge in a universe of our own creation".

So the next time you hear some BS story about aliens and pose UFO's as being alien in origin, at least anticipate that Aliens Do Not Exist.

So, what evidence do you have that it is even possible to create your own universe exactly?

So we get all these posts with people suggesting aliens exist, so I decided now you have you own subforum perhaps we need the inverse.

Alien's Do Not Exist!

My argument is pretty simple.
======================
If a species was to ever get to the point where it was sufficiently technologically advanced, they would end up creating the very universe in which they exist.

This means they wouldn't leave things to chance, in fact it might be queried as to whether life should be allowed to evolve elsewhere (using an evolution algorithm) but country leaders and the Millitary's would likely transpire that "Not having to worry about unknown factors" would mean never having to worry about competing for resources or dealing with a potentially more advanced hostile.

In essence the decision would be "Not to allow other lifeforms to emerge in a universe of our own creation".

So the next time you hear some BS story about aliens and pose UFO's as being alien in origin, at least anticipate that Aliens Do Not Exist.

How would they create there own universe ? What about lower life forms or ones that don't follow our evolutionary path ? How bout creatures we have not discovered yet or emerging new creatures from evolution or ones to still evolve , Could they be considered alien if there mutation was dependent on gamma rays or something like that . How bout future human ? And wadja think about potential time travel ? Would they fall into the Alien category, or a lost tribe ? How bout that , Do you rule out ancient aliens seeding the earth too? Us being there experiment, or jelly fish being the experiment ?

What about the Mars rocks that look like they have D.N.A. sequencing in them ? Would that be alien life . The ideas about the moons of Jupiter and Saturn having water enough to support primitive life ? What you think about that ? What about the idea that Comets have the building blocks of life in them and if they are seeds of life would they be embryonic aliens ?

My conclusion : We don't have enough information to say one way or the other

Look (at time) No aliens!

O.K. you got Me I am an Alien . I was gonna get around to telling the truth at some point . You see that movie contact with Jodi Foster . Well I came to earth and when a baby died I took the body for my self . Why did I do it I have no Idea . Fuck I don't wish this kind of stuff on no one . I guess I was just curious what it would be like to be human . It look like so much fun from up there I had to give it a go. I hope you humans are not mad about that .

This is fabricated story time. I am human just as much as any of you . I am from the Earth !! Believe Me !!! I got a history behind Me to prove it and a drivers License, plus a pass port. Just because I was born at a air-force base in Alaska before it was a State don't make Me an Alien either. Just because the air-force was doing top secret shit that is still classified to this day don't prove nothing . I got a birth certificate . A real one . I am from the earth ! period!

So.. humans made this Universe then. And in this Universe aliens don't exist.

Why would aliens want to create a new universe? Why would it be easier to live in a created universe?

Because you can create anything your mind desires...

God created humans.

God created humans.

Got any evidence for that besides Jewish fairytales?

Dear me. No, it hasn't. If you think it has then please provide appropriate citations.

Incorrect. If you think it is, then please provide appropriate citations.

Bollocks. If you think you are correct then, etc.


On the contrary. To have a firm opinion either way about other life is a display of ignorance.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/06may_salmonella/



salmonella in space gets 3 to 7 times more virulent

http://dudeman.net/siriusly/cyd/alh84001bact.jpg

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/443898/did_scientists_find_life_in_tiny_martian_tunnels/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11983169/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/tiny-tunnels-mars-rock-hint-lifes-traces/

weird sight but that is one of the rocks found

Actually the topic at hand is "aliens" which would require multiple beings traveling somewhere. It would be more easily dismissed had the OP used criteria limited to visitations to Earth.
Instead he foolishly uses the Universe as the bounds of discussion and then tries to psychoanalyze some imaginary model of what aliens 'should' be.

I guess in the new subforums even the science guys leave logic at the door.

ok cluster. we know evolution exsists so if we find life in our own galaxy or anywhere else actually of 1 celled organisms knowing how we have evolved means there is life skattered all through out the universe and can evolve..

and i think your last little bit there applies to you

I'm so sorry. I didn't realise I was dealing with an idiot. When someone says life can survive in space they are not generally talking about surviving inside the protected environment of a spacecraft. Since we have been orbiting humans on and off for 50 years I would hardly dispute that life, properly protected, can survive in space.

Now do you have any evidence that life can survive - and I'll spell it out for you here - in the vacuum of space and (more detail) amid the plethora of radiation and cosmic rays, for a 'reasonable' preiod of time?

The Martian meteorite ALH84001 is seriously disputed as showing any evidence of life. The consensus view is that it does not.

The third example you quote is about trace fossils, not about exoskeletons. It was exoskeletons I asked you about specifically.


And you have said nothing to justify this comment: "if you ask a scientist what it was and say it was from earth they would say just that.. but if you say its from mars they suddenly change there answer".

Nor have you defended this uninformed remark:"and to think there is no life outside our planet is just plain ignorance."

Because you can create anything your mind desires...

Not if it's outside the laws of physics you can't.

You can not prove they don't exist.

You can only discredit claims to the contrary...

So we get all these posts with people suggesting aliens exist, so I decided now you have you own subforum perhaps we need the inverse.

Alien's Do Not Exist!

My argument is pretty simple.
======================
If a species was to ever get to the point where it was sufficiently technologically advanced, they would end up creating the very universe in which they exist.

This means they wouldn't leave things to chance, in fact it might be queried as to whether life should be allowed to evolve elsewhere (using an evolution algorithm) but country leaders and the Millitary's would likely transpire that "Not having to worry about unknown factors" would mean never having to worry about competing for resources or dealing with a potentially more advanced hostile.

In essence the decision would be "Not to allow other lifeforms to emerge in a universe of our own creation".

So the next time you hear some BS story about aliens and pose UFO's as being alien in origin, at least anticipate that Aliens Do Not Exist.
I don't think this makes any sense, but I suppose it could be mocking arguments made by UFO believers. Anyway, taking it as serious.... Why couldn't there be aliens with a lot of capability, but not enough to control everything. IOW your argument could be used by a civilization, somewhere else in the universe, for why we could not exist. I see no reason to assume that a species with the ability to travel in space and be able to do things we are not close to doing yet, would have to have total ability and also would have to or want to eliminate all other life. I mean, if they can do anything, what the heck do they have to worry about. And if they can do quite a bit, but not everything, heck they might be curious about and learning from other species. They also might, just like we might, have morals that prohibited not allowing other life forms to emerge, etc.

weak arguments.

weak arguments.Which arguments are weak and why?

The existence of extraterrestrial life forms, and especially Aliens (civilized, technologically superior, blah blah) can be speculated in either way -exist/don't exist-, and they are bound to end up equally nonsensical or very logical depending upon the "belief" system.

All we need is a concrete evidence -preferably more than one evidence. Until that day, both arguments will only contribute to science fiction. Unlike God business, we perfectly know what is/could be an evidence: unnatural activity in distant space, unnatural signal, piece of code, namely, some data to prove the existence. We are desperately looking for it, because it will provide a tremendous new insight about universe and our place in it, and there is nothing in known science that eliminates the possibility of another life forms in the universe, these are correct; yet, we haven't found it/them yet.

paintings of ufos

http://youtu.be/RcrzD0PfyPs

A painting. Yep, that confirms it for me.

So.........

Earth was unstable for life at one point for quite a stretch of time.....

Meterorites etc. crashed earth making life sustainable........

Life is made....

and this is exclusive only to earth? Why because they havent confronted us yet or we havent confronted them. Thats like my going in my back yard not seeing anybody and declaring that there is nobody there in the world besides the people in my house. LOL

Actually the topic at hand is "aliens" which would require multiple beings traveling somewhere. It would be more easily dismissed had the OP used criteria limited to visitations to Earth.
Instead he foolishly uses the Universe as the bounds of discussion and then tries to psychoanalyze some imaginary model of what aliens 'should' be.

I guess in the new subforums even the science guys leave logic at the door.


That's why I told him to stick it in philosophy.

Actually Guys there is a very simple reason for the postulation and any limitation in it's logic, it's irony. You see those that usually argue that aliens exist and have visited here use the exact same lack of logic and supposition, originally this was only seen because the forum was predominantly science and the "Cranks" couldn't see fault in the reasoning.

The post is a reflection on playing devils advocate for the inverse angle that they can't exist and is limited to the same logic structure that many people that "Believe" actually use to argue with.

So if you believe the argument isn't valid because it's not supported with real evidence, considering that it's also true of the inverse argument (The argument were people conclude aliens exist).

In some respects you can conclude this is actually an exercise in defining what parameters science would apply to either argument, so think carefully ;)

One point about space however is that cellular mitosis occurs at an accelerated rate when outside of a gravitational field, which has been handy for the production of cultures used to make vaccinations. (hypothetically you could take a virus known for it's speed of mutation, accelerate it further to increase the variants that you have on record and generate vaccines against each proto-version, so you'd have a "rainbow array" of vaccines for a particular viruses mutation tree.)

However... Space is inhospitable, any lifeform attempting to survive outside of Homoeostasis environment is going to subjected to high radiation levels, frozen vacuums and the absence of atmosphere (That is usually associated with life, otherwise "why look in the Goldilocks belt?")

If you place the two together you get this, a lab in space working on diseases and bacteria's that need to be controlled so they don't threaten a widespread epidemic, which means that should a spacelab suffer a failure, then any cultures are subjected to a hostile environment that will automatically neutralise them. (As if it's not all designed.)

It also increases the need for funding to be put into utilising space further since there is the potential for cures to be made up there.

Aliens do not exist is like saying the universe was built for the sole purpose of our survival. How flawed is that. I strongly believe there are other life forms out there. Could range from molecular living cells to maybe other beings. However I doubt that they are technologically more advanced than us or if so (such a long long shot), then not much. Otherwise we would have had visitors already. I believe we are alone in the Milky way, but not the Universe.