I bought a book today (actually two), and I am very eager to finish it, I'm on the 4th chapter of this book and I am blindslighted by the horrific relaity of American eugenics.

http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/


Ultimately, 60,000 Americans were coercively sterilized — legally and extra-legally. Many never discovered the truth until decades later. Those who actively supported eugenics include America's most progressive figures: Woodrow Wilson, Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell Holmes.


One of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute doctors in the program financed by the Rockefeller Foundation was Josef Mengele who continued his research in Auschwitz, making daily eugenic reports on twins.

In the beginning of the book is a touching story about forced sterilization of young boys and girls in Virginia, The eugenticists targeted what is called “white trash” Here is a excerpt from the book about this horrible exercise in American eugenics:


A single day in the 1930’s was typical. The Montegomery County sheriff drove up unannounced onto Brush Mountain and began one of his many raids against the hill families considered socially inadequate. More precisely, these hill families were deemed ‘unfit’ to exist in nature…From Brush Mountain, the sheriff’s human catch was trucked to a variety of special destinations…by the time Brush Mountain hillbillies were transported there, Western housed not only those deemed insane, but also the so called ‘feebleminded’…The county authorities were certain that the hill folk swept up in their raids were indeed mentally- and genetically- defective. As such, they would not be permitted to breed more of their kind (Black 1-2)

If you think that Hitler was the only one who was trying to create a Aryan super race, you have to be either very ignorant or kidding yourself, the concept of the Nordic superior race is a American concept, Hitler liked it and adopted it. Untold thousands of Americans legally under government sanction were forcibly sterilized without their consent, to rid the United States of the Unfit. This promises to be a book that I will never forget, and I hope you get it as well to expose the sordid history of American/Germanic eugenics.

It is, no doubt, an unfortunate and ugly part of American histoy, but
where do you make the link that Hitler was "inspired" by these events?

:m: Peace.

his motivation was: if the americans can do it then why coudnt he?, the americans were trying to save money, hitler believed he was trying to save his country

I wonder if it would seem so "unfortunate" and "ugly" if hitler never was inspired by them? I mean if hitler didn't slap a copyright on "eugenics", would the fact that woodrow wilson (et al) endorsed selectively breeding humans be so dispicable?

It's funny how it is considered unethical to randomly breed dogs. And I'm not just talking about the crazy show dog world, not just talking about recognised breeds. It's unanimous across humanity that breeding any old dog to any other is irresponsible and unethical. Both parents need to be exceptional in some way, depending on the purpose of the line of dog. Great seeing-eye dogs, great guard dogs, great boar hunters, whatever. This is just an unwritten law with dog breeding. You don't throw a couple of lazy house dogs together, you'll be berated visciously and considered a stain on society. The word will spread around that you're the kind of person that would let untested, unproven, inadequate dogs mate and you'll be shunned from the dog community and blacklisted.
"Backyard breeders" are the hitlers of the dog world, for being the exact opposite of hitler.
The future of dogs is taken very seriously.
We don't seem to care so much about the future of humanity. Apparently it's no where near as important. Not only that it's like it's somehow important that particularly poor specimens are bred. It's a sin to strive for better people.
I don't know, it's all very contradictory.

so , dr lou natic, you are agreeing with eugenics? cause dog breeders are breeding 'better' dogs...so why not 'better' people?
Are YOU one of them--a better-person? or do you think you should be forcibly sterilized? which is it!?

and WHO are you or anyone else to say who is 'better'? What does it mean 'better'? rich of poor? isn't it usually the poor who get these fascist moves pulled on them? Cause they dont have the power to sue the arses off of the fukin fukers who come round rounding them up

you reaLLY SHOULD LOOK DEEPER INTO THIS MY LOU NATIC. and as for dogs. i am aware that real in-bred dogs can be very highly strung. and other types have various troubles. for example the Bull dog has troubly breathing....etc etc

seeming to me more and more that the more shit man tries to make 'better' the more TOXIC everything gets!

The medical profession in Nazi Germany I think informed Hitler of eugenics and they willingly and enthusiastically joined in the racial cleansing. That they did borrow from the US and UK eugenics movement is I think beyond dispute. Earnest Hooton, an American criminologist, published on eugenics. Anyway here is a link that may help

http://www.ushmm.org/research/library/bibliography/racial/right.htm

also, another important thing i forgot to add. it wasn't a wholly American invention, this idea of 'superior and inferior' people, races. You have to research about the secret elitist club, of which all the 3 generations of Bushs' have/are members of, AND Kerry, and most of the rich and powerful people are connected with--named Skull&Bones. The German nazi version--one of its names being The Thule Society (members of the Nazi SS had the skull and bones symbol on their uniform
When you study abou these related clubs, you see that it was Theosophy which gave them the roots of their evil dogma. For as with Madama Blavatsky's book 'The Secret Doctrine', it is all about supposed lost civilizations of master races, superior races, inferior races, root races, mystical masters, etc etc. This shit is where they get got their justifications for the evil they do!...check it out for yourself

Eugenics came in various varieties: Francis Galton was the inventor of the word. Vslayer is mistaken in saying that Hitler was inspired by US eugenics, except for the comparatively small-scale murder of mentally ill and disabled people and the gypsies. The antisemitism which inspired the extermination of the jews was inspired by a variety of motives, but one aspect was a belief that the jews were in many ways superior to other humans.
Eugenics was a fairly common phenomenon- Darwin himself wasn't a eugenecist, but many of his later followers were. There were also socialist eugenecists: H G Wells, Bernard Shaw, J B S Haldane are obvious examples.

where DO you get your info from mate?

If Hitler and his henchmen had thought the Jews so superior, why is it they propaganderized them as sub-human and as rats?
OBVIOUSLY you aren't very familiar with the Nazi mythology. it was THEMSELVES they considered the superrace. ....obviously...sheeeesh

you reaLLY SHOULD LOOK DEEPER INTO THIS MY LOU NATIC.
You have no idea my simple little friend.


for example the Bull dog has troubly breathing
Thats because it began being bred for arbitrary traits, to look a certain way rather than to serve a purpose.
Originally bulldogs were bred for their ability to pin bulls by the nose. Period. I can assure you no bulldogs in the 16th century had trouble breathing, quite the contrary, they had exceptional stamina with the heart and lungs to endure excessive stress for long periods of time. They were actually amazing creatures, and this was due to strict functional selective breeding. The bulls were doing the breeding by slaughtering thousands of inadequate individuals.

If we had some idiot from the akc in charge of breeding humans I'm sure we'd run into the same problems many of the pure breeds of dog suffer from today.
Ofcourse, even this wouldn't necessarrily be worse than what we have now, there are people who can't breathe properly you know, if we wish to shine the tip of the "shouldn't be" iceberg.

There's no rule saying eugenics must work in such a way that a person chooses who they want to breed. I agree we've proven through history that no one is up to that task.
People could be tested by the real demands of succeeding as a human being.
Hell we could avoid extreme dysgenics (ie what we are experiencing now) by simply not helping everyone. That could be a start. Letting people get taken out to sea by riptides for example. I don't think we need lifeguards.
Our whole society is geared towards keeping every little mutant that every worthless coupling produces alive and well at all costs. I don't see the long term goal of this bizarre strategy.

Humans have actually accomplished amazing things with selective breeding through history.
Modern humans with your relaxed mindset are what destroyed the breeds of dog. Today's bulldog is a product of dygenics just like we are.
I never said any old selective breeding is good.
There are still dogs bred well to serve a purpose by traditional methods. And no they don't suffer health problems, they tend to excell at what they're bred for to a degree that no human excells at anything. They're perfect machines.
The pre-requisite to good breeding is a hell of alot of death. Breeders of show dogs became too good at keeping dogs alive and their selecting for certain things didn't take other things into consideration. The old bulldogs were bred specifically to breathe well. Not by any man's decision but by the demands of their task. It became unecessarry for them to breathe so good in order to win a dog show and the desired phenotype inhibitted breathing so it went down hill.
Think of every person modern society keeps alive that would die if it wasn't looked after so fervently. It's a mind boggling prospect. We're in effect breeding for all these horrible deformities and inadequacies by not culling them out of our genepool. Or more accurately by not allowing them to be naturally culled out of our genepool.
It's not even a matter of me trying to create some sterilisation clinic where I give a thumbs up or down for everyone that comes in. I'm condemming dysgenics rather than endorsing eugenics.
I want people to be allowed to prove they deserve to breed, and for those that don't fit that bill to be allowed to go out with some dignity for the good of humanity.
There's nothing outlandish about my thoughts, I want to push the dirty couch off of the humanity train's tracks and let it run. I'm not the one proposing the unnatural interference. The unnatural interence is there and I want to be rid of it.


Are YOU one of them--a better-person? or do you think you should be forcibly sterilized? which is it!?
I want to find out. If I'm not, fuck sterilisation, I want to die.

You might think I'm lieing, and in a way it is misleading how I put that. I don't "want" to die.
I want it to be such that I will die against my will if I fail to meet the demands of succeeding as a person. If it came down to it I'd still struggle against whatever was killing me and try not to die. I might even scream.
But it's irrelevent what the stupid animal-me wants or doesn't want.
It mostly wants a soft bed and orgasms and food and doesn't want to be hurt or killed etc.
It's a simple organism who's desires shouldn't be taken too seriously in the big scheme of things. There are things far more important than any persons pussy feelings. Right now society has people's pussy feelings as the top priority. It's embarrassingly juvenile.

where DO you get your info from mate?

If Hitler and his henchmen had thought the Jews so superior, why is it they propaganderized them as sub-human and as rats?
OBVIOUSLY you aren't very familiar with the Nazi mythology. it was THEMSELVES they considered the superrace. ....obviously...sheeeesh
Take a look at nazi and other antisemitic characterisations of the jews: they attributed superhuman abilities of cunning, organisation, long-term planning, intelligence, racial loyalty and other qualities to them. Certainly, the nazis thought they had many other evil qualities, but the reason they thought the jews a dangerous enemy in a way that the other sub-human races like slavs, blacks, the Chinese etc were not was because they had these good qualities. In the view of the nazis the jews used these qualities to obtain domination of the world by the jews, when- obviously- it ought to be the truly wonderful aryans who did so. The qualities the nazis aspired to possess as servants of the aryan race were precisely the ones they attributed to the jews as enemies of it.

It's embarrassingly juvenile.
Re-arrange the following into a well known phrase or saying:

pot the black calling kettle the

of course i am aware where you are getting at. that any 'in group' secretly FEARs an 'out group' for the latte's potential power. that what we may CONSCIUOSLY do, will also have unconscious motives. of COURSE. but also you have lo look at their mythology. i keep saying this cause it is EXTREMEly important to checkout the stories we tell ourselves, cause its those that fuel the vision. like said, for the Nazis, as it is for the '4th reich' the 'Nw American Century' is is based on Theosphy. Theosphy is based on a mish mash of Eastern esotericism, and patriarchal pagan northern mythology. you can put it all under the head category of PATRIARCHY. the FEAR of the dark, which includes women, and dark skinned people. the belief that some will be saved and others damned. the deification of the 'light'...and the concept of a supreme MALE superintelligence' that is superior to Nature.

i watched a movie called battle royale last night, i believe that the concept behind it is a good one, survival of the fittest/smartest/most co-opeerative.

basically, they got a class of highschool kids, stuck them on an island and gave them guns and forced them to kill each other

It is, no doubt, an unfortunate and ugly part of American histoy, but
where do you make the link that Hitler was "inspired" by these events?

I haven't gotten that far in the book yet but it is certain that the Nazi regime was propped up by American eugenics:


America’s eugenic movement spread to Germany as well, where it caught the fascination of Adolf Hitler…the Richmond Times-Dispatch quoted a prominent American eugencist as saying “The Germans are beating us at our own game. (Black xvii)

These eugenicists range with VERY prominent names in America, from Theodore Roosevelt who said :


I agree with you…that society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind…Some day, we will realize that the prime duty, the inescapable duty, of the good citizen of the right type, os to leave his or her blood behind him in the world; and that we have no business to permit the perpetuation of citizens of the wrong type (Black 99).

Very important Americans supported this idea, from Roosevelt, steel magnate Andrew Carnegie who funded much of the Eugenic studies, the Rockefellers, the Kellogg family (you know Kellogg corn flakes…), according to John D. Rockefeller:


[about the plan to incarcerate the feebleminded]…kept from perpetuating [their[ kind…until after the period of child bearing had been passed. (Black 93)

About Jews…they were in no way considered superior by anyone in the Eugenics movement (although I feel there may be a Zionist eugenic movement), Mr. Davenport the main eugenicist “intellectual” wrote about Jews in the following from his book:


There is no question that, taken as a whole, the horde of Jews that are now coming to us from Russia and the extreme southeast of Europe, with their intense individualism and ideals of gain at the cost of any interest, represent the opposite extreme from the early English and the more recent Scandinavian immigration with their ideals of community life in the open country, advancement by the sweat of the brow, and the uprearing of families in the fear of God and the love of country. (Black 74)

Another shocking American celebrity of history that shocked me which was a MAJOR eugenicist was Margaret Sanger, who is known as the pre-eminent Feminist, Birth Control was a mechanism to control the inferior races, as Ms.Sanger stated about the much hated idea of Philanthropy:


Such Philanthropy…unwittingly promotes precisely the results most deprecated. It encourages the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I thnk the reader must agree , a dead weight of human waste. (Black 129)

Everything from the IQ test, to the SAT’s are eugenic inventions that are subjective, and as a result prejudice against non-“Nordic” people’s, and these are still used today. IQ tests were used to determine if one was “feebleminded” and thus could be sterilized. The shocking quotes from this book from Americans…not Nazi’s can change one’s perception of the United States. Ladies and Gentlemen the Holocaust started on Long Island, and only ended in Auschwitz.

The Eugenics movement wasn't only in the USA. Its founder, Francis Galton, was a cousin of Darwin.There were many rhetorical followers, including Churchill, but most of them had merely heard the rhetoric and did not try to pass laws putting it into practise. Besides some US states the only place where compulsory sterilisation was legally practised, I think, was social democratic Sweden.
Certainly the US eugenecists thought jews were inferior. They thought everyone except old-fashioned yankees was inferior. [The fact that they were- for the most part- of old-fashion yankee descent themselves did not make them suspect they might be biased] However, compare the opinions of "the jews" expressed by eugenecists and nazis and you will see that they are using completely different ways of thinking- if thinking is the right word. Exterminatory antisemitism, and the belief in jewish conspiracies trying to control the world are completely separate from eugenics and have a different history. See Poliakoff's History of Antisemitism and Cohn's Warrant for Genocide for some on the latter. For eugenics Lewontin [ed] Not in our Genes and Gould: The Mismeasure of Man are equally hostile but more reasoned.

Eugenics is a great idea. I don't trust a neurotic modern state to apply it, however, so suggest a return to feudal times.

The "Holocaust" was a political means of removing foreign DNA from the soil - and it worked. I advise everyone not to cry for dead religious fanatics ;) which you have to be to believe in a religion as idiotic as Christianity or Judaism.

where do you make the link that Hitler was "inspired" by these events?

Everything from the IQ test, to the SAT’s are eugenic inventions that are subjective, and as a result prejudice against non-“Nordic” people’s, and these are still used today.


First of all, putting Nordic in quotes suggests you are stupid and do not recognize the existence of the Nordic ethnocultural group.

Next, America was a predominantly Nordic society at the time; why shouldn't they bias their tests toward Nordics? They want more of them; other types of people have other parts of the world.

Finally, to those who are so unresearched they question Hitler's connection to America, does the name Madison Grant ring a bell? If not, you're stupid for not doing your basic research - shoot yourself in the face; it's eugenic.

:m:

If you think that Hitler was the only one who was trying to create a Aryan super race, you have to be either very ignorant or kidding yourself, the concept of the Nordic superior race is a American concept, Hitler liked it and adopted it

You forgot to mention that every successful Indo-European society ever has had some form of strict eugenics, including the ancient Greeks, Indians, Romans, Macedonians, and early Caucasian tribes. What's so horribly offensive about sterilizing and killing less important people? I don't know if you actually work for a living, or interact with society outside the suburbs, but there's a horde of useless idiots out there that we could do without. Unless you're one of them, in which -- you might feel differently! (LOL)

:m:

The "Holocaust" was a political means of removing foreign DNA from the soil - and it worked. DNA is a chemical structure. It is identical in every living creature, so it cannot be "foreign". Nor does it exist- except in living creatures- in the soil. As everyone in Germany had migrated from elsewhere, they were all equally foreign.
I advise everyone not to cry for dead religious fanatics ;) which you have to be to believe in a religion as idiotic as Christianity or Judaism.The nazis murdered people because of their ancestry, not because of their beliefs. The nazis' own beliefs were even more absurd, vile and stupid than traditional religions, and they didn't have the excuses of habit or tradition to justify following them.
If the US eugenecists had had the courage to say they were biassed to people like themselves, that would be another matter. They did not. They said- and probably believed- that they were scientific and logical. They weren't. In so far as the USA was "nordic" at all it was because it exterminated other people. I take it you wouldn't object if immigrants murdered the "nords" to replace them.

ThersitesThe Eugenics movement wasn't only in the USA. Its founder, Francis Galton, was a cousin of Darwin.[/b]

True he coined the term but he believed in positive eugenics and feverently opposed the work of American eugenics which was wholly negative.

Besides some US states the only place where compulsory sterilisation was legally practised, I think, was social democratic Sweden.

Incorrect, the eugenic laws strecthed much further, Alberta, British Columbia, Denmark, Norway, obviously Germany.

First of all, putting Nordic in quotes suggests you are stupid and do not recognize the existence of the Nordic ethnocultural group.

I don't really believe in all those raceological distinctions all that much. I put in quotations because I don't believe in race as the same way you do, if you want you can check out a debate in the Isr/Pal thread btwn me and Vlad.

Next, America was a predominantly Nordic society at the time; why shouldn't they bias their tests toward Nordics? They want more of them; other types of people have other parts of the world.

The reason why is because this was not a American concept that only applied to America, the Americans eugenics tried feverently to spread the movement worldwide. Secondly race is only part of the eugenic program, the American eugenicists were more interested in "defective" people, shit eugenics even though poverty was an acquired trait. :rolleyes: Secondly I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the Nordic type really are "superior" the IQ tests are flawwed so don't even bother.

Finally, to those who are so unresearched they question Hitler's connection to America, does the name Madison Grant ring a bell? If not, you're stupid for not doing your basic research - shoot yourself in the face; it's eugenic.

I am aware of Hitler's admiration of the exceptionally racist Grant. We know that the Eugenics in the US were more then happy with what Hitler was doing with the Sterilization of tens of thousands of "inferior" stock.

You forgot to mention that every successful Indo-European society ever has had some form of strict eugenics, including the ancient Greeks, Indians, Romans, Macedonians, and early Caucasian tribes.

All I know of is the Spartans who killed off the weak, I don't think those societies had the intellectual, or the physical capability to enact eugenics because they didn't know about the concept of evolution, which is the basic precept of eugenics. So no, I am not buying that.

What's so horribly offensive about sterilizing and killing less important people?

The horrible part is really...who are we to decide who is less important? I mean look now, this eugenic theory is so disgustingly relativist that it ultimately makes no sense, I mean if Africa was the centre of the Eugenic movement instead of America, do you think "Nordics" would be considered superior? No, thus eugenics is a bunch of pseudoscience, masked in ethnocentrism. Not scientific at all..

I don't know if you actually work for a living, or interact with society outside the suburbs, but there's a horde of useless idiots out there that we could do without. Unless you're one of them, in which -- you might feel differently! (LOL)

Look up something called "counterpohobia" you fit RIGHT in.

Besides some US states the only place where compulsory sterilisation was legally practised, I think, was social democratic Sweden.

Incorrect, the eugenic laws strecthed much further, Alberta, British Columbia, Denmark, Norway, obviously Germany.


Thanks. JBS Haldane in Future Worlds discusses eugenics from a socialist positive eugenecist's view. All the same, the attitude of eugenecists and the specific antisemitism of the nazis were very different. As i said, much of what frightened the nazis about jews was that they ascribed to the jews many of the qualities they most wanted in themselves. Compare the attributes given to the jews by the nazis with the qualities other eugenicists saw in inferior races. It is curious how conspirators justify themselves as fighters against a wicked conspiracy- both the nazis and some communists.

The "Holocaust" was a political means of removing foreign DNA from the soil - and it worked. I advise everyone not to cry for dead religious fanatics ;) which you have to be to believe in a religion as idiotic as Christianity or Judaism.


...What?? This person doesn't believe in a religione? How idiotic! This guy shouldnt be permitted to breed. Quick, somebody sterilize him!!

sorry, i just wanted to illustrate how baseless that particular statement seemed. it strikes me, however, that some of these "degenerates" do perform useful things for our society (talking about the US, and several other western societies). there are many institutions who hire mentally retarded people to do simple, mundane tasks like shredding documents. the mentally retarded individuals dont mind doing it, and the company hiring them gets a neccessary task completed at a low cost. each of us benefit daily from those whom some of you consider unfit to breed. im not sure what sort of society would exist with a widespread practice of eugenics... but i'm quite happy with the fact that i don't have to shred papers all day.

Eugenics I'm all for it. I'm for exterminating the whole species known as homo sapiens a product of a few faulty genes and a bit of inbreeding which turned up a while back. When they are all gone the rest of us animals can get on with the peaceful co-existance we had before these imbeciles evolved and screwed everything up for the rest of us. Yeah! Things sure would be different for us if we had evolved all the brains and invented guns. There'd be none of those pussy bulldogs about that's for sure. Canis Lupus

What's so horribly offensive about sterilizing and killing less important people?
Because you are KILLING PEOPLE. Damn, is it not that fucking obvious?

Just because the Nazis are reviled doesn't mean that they didn't do some interesting things as well. Nazi scientists were brought to the US for our benefit. Many Americans agreed with some of their ideas, such as social darwinism. They thought that natural selection was being avoided when we help out the disadvantaged, like the mentally ill. They may have been right. The fact that dogs can be bred for certain purposes is proof that eugenics could change the human race. Of course, the ethical concerns are paramount, but the Nazis didn't care about that.

The problem with dog breeding (forgive me if I'm repeating anything), is that they have come to be breed for looks, or a narrow purpose, rather than a well rounded animal that happens to be good at something, the way informal dog breeding has created working animals for thousands of years. When breeders look for all around good qualities in a dog, the appearance becomes variable. When they breed for appearance, the all around good qualities disappear.

There is some suggestion that Jewish people have practiced an informal eugenics program with their religion. The smartest attained the best position in the community, which was the rabbi, and they would have a large family, and they would be in the best position to support a large family. Thus, the population's average intelligence increases. The drawback is that if you breed for one quality only, genetic flaws start to occur. The drawback with European Jews is that they suffer from more genetic diseases, just like purebred dogs.

The Christians, however, prevented the breeding of priests, so the most intelligent were left out of the gene pool.

The flaw in Nazi thinking is that pure breeds are better and can be judged by appearances. However, animals benefit from a large gene pool, and appearance isn't always the best judge of superior qualities.

None of it, still, is any sane rationalization of murder. "Rationalized murder" is an oxymoron, like "military intelligence".

Because you are KILLING PEOPLE. Damn, is it not that fucking obvious?

pardon
but is it neccessary to yell?

The flaw in Nazi thinking is that pure breeds are better and can be judged by appearances. However, animals benefit from a large gene pool, and appearance isn't always the best judge of superior qualities.
Large gene pools aren't inherently good, and small gene pools aren't inherently bad.
Show dogs have small gene pools and suck, but gamebred pitbulls and elite racehorses have small gene pools as well(maybe the smallest of all) and they are exceptional creatures. Which indicates that it's not the size of the gene pool but the "temperature" of it.
Favouring blonde hair and blue eyes was, ofcourse, bound to fail.
I sincerely doubt that if hitler was alive today he would maintain his stance that breeding for these traits would be beneficial. The negative affects of breeding for appearance had not yet fully struck the dog world in the 40s, like hitler kennel clubs thought it was a good idea, it's recently proven to have been a bad one.
But this doesn't mean selective breeding is bad, it just means you need to know what you're doing or you can end up with something worse than random dysgenics.
Breeding for performance has proven, and had proven long before anyone could even understand it, to be very beneficial.
The more demanding the prerequisites for breeding, the better.
Basically if we had to endure and accomplish more in order to breed, and if many were simply allowed to not make it through the guantlet, we'd be much better for it.
But instead fubu pants and a dirty teenage moustache is about all it takes to be successfull in todays society.

Bulldogs of old were amazing, because what they were asked to do was almost too much. For a fairly little dog to survive very physical encounters with raging bulls was extraordinary, and heaps didn't survive, many thousands died to the applause of english gentlemen. The type of dog that started to emerge had amazing adaptations, not just physical but most significant were the mental adaptations, extreme grit, courage and determination beyond anything seen in the natural world (which is a very high standard). They developed a confidence which allowed them to go into seemingly impossible situations with the belief they were definately going to come out on top.
Everything about them was geared towards being successfull against horrible odds.
These traits can be seen in the non-fucked cousins of the olde english bulldogge that still exist today- the american pitbull terrier, american bulldog etc.

The old english bulldogs way of life died, and it was set to as well, but some people thought "aww they look so cute" and these people then took remaining specimens and started breeding them for their "bulldoggy" features, exagerrating of the stockiness and undershot jaw that they admired and completely neglecting bullfighting ability.
They were pampered, and all they had to do to be successfull was look a certain way.
You'll find the "system" we have is actually in effect closer to the breeding of modern bulldogs, than old bulldogs or wild animals, in that competence as a living organism is not taken into account in our natural selection. Modern bulldogs can afford to have trouble breathing and walking and even mating because they have people looking after them clearing their nasal passages and inserting their little willys.
We aren't so different. If you can't walk, you're given a wheelie chair, you can't breath properly you're given surgery and so on and so forth. Nobody in the civilised world is allowed to die through their own inadaquacy. You won't be killed by a superior individual or even outcompeted. You'll actually be restricted from putting yourself in harms way. You cut the mustard as a human being no matter how "special" or "unique" you are, and "nobody has the right to say different".
Every mutation, every offshoot, every single screw up nature throws out(often for a laugh I'm convinced) is favoured in human evolution.

Eugenics could mean favouring bad humans over good ones (this was what happened when breeding for exagerated features in the english bulldog- and who knows, the result of breeding for blue eyes and blonde hair could have been similar), or favouring quality specimens, it depends directly on what the checklist is. Not on the size of the genepool.

At an elite level the genepool is bound to be small because exceptional individuals don't come around very often. The best race horses are heavily inbred. Fathers will often have sex with their daughters and then have sex with the daughter from that coupling, and the offspring from that won't just be healthy they could almost be considered super animals. Less than perfect input to the genepool has been very carefully minimised. The genepool might be small, but because success in this family tree's history depended on things like health and fitness these areas are immaculate.
That's the key, generations living up to a functional standard, where any lacking in an individual means that individual doesn't breed.

Your "super-animals", Doc, are only really super at one thing. They're still horribly inbred, neurotic, prone to sickness and skiddish. Mutts have an adaptable robustness that I find pleasing. Specialists, though difficult to directly outcompete them, are at the whim of every environmental change, every draft of cool air.

pardon
but is it neccessary to yell?
Yes. Yes it is.

None of it, still, is any sane rationalization of murder. "Rationalized murder" is an oxymoron

Yet aren't you the child who gets his panty's wet everytime someone mentions the word Turkish Empire?

No. I like the Ottoman Empire. Why?

It is, no doubt, an unfortunate and ugly part of American histoy, but
where do you make the link that Hitler was "inspired" by these events?

:m: Peace.

Californian eugenicists produced pamphlets detailing their "studies." These pamphlets made it over to Germany. Some pamphlets even discussed the use of gas chambers to eliminate "undesirables" (hmm, sounds familiar...). Hitler can be connected to all this because he wrote Madison Grant himself, a prominent American eugenicist, and told him, "This book is my bible." He was referencing Grant's book, The Passing of the Great Race.

mmh..i don't know how to feel about the whole thing of applying Eugenics with the purpose of improving looks... mix-race women are just downright HOT, i would know coz my wife is mixed european and native american! WOOHOO!

I'm italian and i wouldn't even have a clue where all my ancestors came from originally, i have been told i look indian, and others even told me i have some latin in me, but i personally think they are both wrong.

As for intelligence here is my take: teach 'em and they'll be smart as a whip.

The form of eugenics i really am against is that of enforcing coercive methods onto unsuspecting population. Lies, deception, the whole concept is screwed up. I'd rather wait for genetic engineering and then having ordered my own new heart, lungs, enlarged penis or X-ray eyes.

The true improvement of the human race is:

- through a proper instruction,
- through science that eliminates mixes of medicinals, wheelchairs and reading glasses in favor of healthy bodies
- through science that cures the mind instead of throwing it away like junk because we don't understand what's wrong with it.

What are we, TV sets??

My favorite form of eugenics: Allow alcohol, tobacco, drugs of all kinds, fatty foods and the like and just sit back and relax. Culling complete.

hey you know what? You got a point there... what if the eugenic movement is in effect still very much alive, not only in America but also in the rest of the world and fueled by a lifestyle that is designed to slowly lead that part of the world's population who doesn't care about its own health into self-induced annihilation? I mean... i am just assuming things here but what if it is all true? Look around you, people are digging their own grave everyday by means of tobacco, weed, over-eating/not eating right, stressing out about things that the MEDIA subliminally order us to stress out about... i don't know about you but i am starting to like my green vegetables more and more...

Even worse... this thought is also enforced by the fact that some of the biggest leading corporations involved in food products on earth were at one time very much involved in eugenic! Kellogg's, Knorr...

My favorite form of eugenics: Allow alcohol, tobacco, drugs of all kinds, fatty foods and the like and just sit back and relax. Culling complete.Except for the hard drugs, all those things are already legal and don't kill people fast enough to prevent them from breeding.

True enough. Many of these nasty drugs will make you stupid and uninhibited enough to breed like bunnies. Sure, half your kids are going do starve to death or die from aids at the age of nine, but enough would get through to make the venture worthwhile for darwinistic purposes.

The other factors though...

those who got through 'for darwinistic purposes' would be those whose ancestors didn't buy into the fast food race