View Full Version : Anglo Zulu War
01-22-04, 03:40 PM
Not sure if this is the right forum? , anyways
Today was the 125 aniversary of the battle of Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift (22nd-23)
This thread is a tribute to the Brave men on both sides who lost their lives in the aforementioned battles and the Anglo Zulu War as a whole....
May there souls rest in peace
.................................................. .................................................. ....
Also the simalarities to the iraq war with the zulu war is quite remarkable
01-22-04, 04:58 PM
What a bloody waste. It was obscene. And similar.
Dr Lou Natic
01-28-04, 07:43 AM
Hey lighten up hypewaders, it was all in good fun, great time had by all I'd say.
And what would it be like if stuff like this hadn't happened and we had no historical accounts to learn about and be fascinated by?
Pretty freaking boring obviously.
It is only natural that an unpersecuted apex predator is involved in conflicts such as this, IMO they're as beautifull as the setting sun or the wildflowers of spring...
ok now I'm just trying to be a pansy but I stand by my feelings that this event was anything but a waste. I'm glad it happened, i'm glad people died, I'm glad similar events will continue to occur forever, Its what makes this planet great.
01-28-04, 09:54 AM
Could you give us your interpretation of the war ands its events?
01-28-04, 02:41 PM
Although the war was dispicable, the blame i think can pretty much fall on one man, Sir Henry Bartle Fraire , he engineared the war with the zulu people diliberatly , and ignored king Chetsowayo's plee's for peace (and even offeard Gold!).
I dont think the british government was keen on the idea of war with the zulus, nor queen Vicotria.
Bartle Fraire paid a price though for his actions ,as his son was killed at Isandlwana.
The zulu leadership at Isandlwana was superb, So few men escaped the slaughter, all 5 companies left to guard the camp were TOTALY wiped out , only a few band persons and a mounted infantry man of the 24th escaped, Both of the Artllery peices were lost and hundreads of native contingent and riders, camp staff and Royal Artillery people were lost, only people on horse had a chance of escape, even the colours of the 24th were lost in the buffalo river, there are some really horrific accounts of the battle and its hero's.
Ive got more to type but cant type much more tonight,Some of the facts (numbers) arent accurate as i couldnt be botherd to look them up, but will edit it tommorow. :)
What are people theorys as to why the british defeat at Isandlwana??
01-28-04, 10:05 PM
There are quite a few, and if you watch the movies you'll see a couple of them - British quartermasters slow to hand out ammunition, supplies to the lines not getting there in time, all that.
However, by all accounts I've seen, and by archeaological evidence, there was in fact plenty of ammunition being sent to the front lines. What may have happened is a comibination of several factors.
The historical view of where the front line actually was may be incorrect. The british were believed to be in a semicircular formation not far from the main depot, where there should have been enough troops to place a man approximately every metre or so. However, a team has recently investigated the site and discovered that from where the shell casings were littering the ground, they were considerably further out - and would only have enough men to place every three metres or so. This meant that the 20,000 or thereabouts Zulus did not have to face anywhere near the concentrated fire that historians hitherto believed.
Second. The Martini-Henry rifle was indeed a superb weapon for its time. However extensive testing has been done on it, and it's been discovered that after a period of intense action, the barrels tend to get clogged with residue, leading to jams. Now when it's considered that there was only a man every three metres or so, this could have led to serious gaps in the firepower brought to bear on the charging Zulus.
Third. The Zulus themselves had access to drugs. I won't go into too much detail of the contents of the pouches their warriors had, but several tests and accounts from Zulu warriors themselves have led to the belief that they in fact contained various forms of halluinogenics and other drugs, leading to warriors believing they were completely invincible and able to charge down lines of firing rifles while disregarding consequences. When this factor is added to the problems of rifles jamming and inadequate spacing of troops, small groups were able to punch holes in the defensive line and rampage in the rear areas, also attacking the british line from behind as well as in front. This led to further chaos, and of course any orderly retreat by the British troops would not have been possible due to the Zulu warriors behind as well as in front. A massacre would have been inevitable.
01-30-04, 03:33 PM
The archealogical zulu dig program was fascinating but some of the points they raised were questionable....
Since the zulus planned to attack isandlwana the nextday (23rd) , they were yet to perform the pre-battle rituals ect.. But when the mounted troops discoveard the valley full of zulus by accident the zulus had no choice but to attack , i doubt they would have had time or even botheard to take the snuff as they arrived at isandlwana very quickly.?
Zulu accounts sugest the assualt was about to collapse, But Durnford on the right flank with his mounted contingent ran out of ammo (he sent riders to fetch more ammo but they couldnt locate the ammo wagon, and returned empty handed) , Durnford had no choice but to pull back , leaving the whole line open on the rightflank, consequently the main firing line had no choice but to pull back to a safer postition closer to camp, seeing the redcoats retreat the zulus surged forward running down the redcoats and almost overuning the artillery guns which were trying to limber up. with the redcoats unable to unite they were left to fight in company sized groups to the death :(
01-30-04, 09:23 PM
They were also speaking of Zulu "suicide squads" though, Star. These warriors did in fact have access to the snuff and did use it. It did not need to be available to all the warriors, but only those required to punch holes in the line which I mentioned above. Further accounts of the battle do speak of the British making last stands in defensive boxes, but this would indicate that they were in fact being attacked from all sides, and that some zulus were already behind them when this retreat started, wouldnt it?
I hadn't heard too much of Durnford and the right flank - might have to go research that. Perhaps this is where the general historical impression we often encounter detailing a lack of ammo came from? Such things do have a habit of becoming distorted.
02-03-04, 03:00 PM
Id certainly not of wanted to face a ordinary zulu warrrior in battle let alone one belonging to a suicide squad....
I think (?) the men under durnford had a diffrent type of rifle , so were unable to use any of the martini henry ammunition , although im sure i read the 24th's quartermasters refused to give some irregular units ammunition (probably the nnc)
Have you read "the curling letters of the zulu war" ?
Its a excellent read and quite graphic in the detail of the fate of the artillery crews and the desperate chase at fugitives drift
02-04-04, 01:10 AM
I've only recently begun looking at the zulu war, a couple of days before your initial post and immediately after seeing a special on that expedition on TV. Coincidental, perhaps.
This seems a good site, although I've only found it today.
I'm not sure about the rifles themselves being different... it appears more likely that durnford's men were not issued with ammunition because they were from a different unit? Still looking at this. However, it does seem that this was indeed one of the pivotal moments, in that it forced durnford to retreat back to the campsite, thereby endangering the entire flank. Interesting.
I haven't read the curling letters, no. available on the net or only in print?
02-10-04, 03:13 PM
That web site is excellnet , especially the forums, it is full of experts ect
I think the book is only avaliable in print , but ill post some extracts of it on here tommorow so you can see (definetly worth buying)
Have you looked into intombe drift yet? its another "mini isandlwana"
03-03-04, 04:45 AM
Agh Fenris, who wins a war on drugs? Think about it, if the n'anga (spiritual guide) of an impi (battalion) foresees victory or gives a potion to deflect bullets the only thing at work is the mind believing that nothing will kill them , its confidence more than anything else, & most wars, I'm told, are lost & won in the mind.