If God is real, he exists by the same chance that we do (that's our best guess), and is on a higher plane than the universe, which is claimed to be its creation. If we are still discovering the secrets of the universe, how can we measure anything outside it. For all intent and purposes, nothing exists outside the known universe. This is a pointless and moot debate. There's no point in saying anything other than, "I don't know for sure, all I know is what can measure"

For all those zealots on both sides, claiming the truth, get some sense. There is or there is not. Pointless!

All religious people I have met need religion to supplement a deficiency in their mental or physical being...aka...their soul. I was a Christian for over 30 years and I'm interested in those that believe, but don't need to believe. In the face of reason, and that they observe the improbability of the existence of anything of fantasy, but still believe. Are there any theists out there like this?

This has prompted me to make my first post in this forum.

I was raised as a Christian primarily by my father. As I entered my teens I was living with my mother and was no longer attending church. I graduated from my catholic elementary school and began attending a public high school. I can say with relative certainty that I've been thinking for myself for several years now, but that never seemed to extinguish my "supernatural" beliefs.

I've been struggling with my spirituality for several years. Only recently have I really begun to look into it. The evidence pointing towards the non existence of God is certainly strong, but despite this evidence I still believe in a higher power of some sort.

If I were to cease being a theist my life would change very little. In fact I'm sure it would have no positive impact on me at all. So I suppose I believe because there's really no harm in my believing. However, I could just deluding myself.

I hope this helps. But I'm about to start attending university and with all the philosophy, sociology and psychology classes I'll be taking it's possible that my viewpoint could change very soon.

If God is real, he exists by the same chance that we do (that's our best guess), and is on a higher plane than the universe, which is claimed to be its creation. If we are still discovering the secrets of the universe, how can we measure anything outside it. For all intent and purposes, nothing exists outside the known universe. This is a pointless and moot debate.

It's moot alright. There is NO outside to the universe. The universe is all there is.

What I'd like to know is who in this world would be stupid enough to believe they aren't brainwashed by something to some degree?

I don't believe in god cause I have to. I believe in god because I've observed it and interacted with it, and that's the label I felt was appropriate given logical definition. I could call it something else if I wanted to, but its something. Well, its something else...

This view is naive at best. So by your posts, I assume you to be an agnostic; as someone who deems it "impossible to know whether there is a God". But then you go on to attack theists for their "blind" faith or beliefs. For someone who entertains the possibility of there actually being a God, why would you be disgusted most by the people who choose to follow without evidence? Wouldn't they be an ounce bit smarter than the atheist who choose to deny without proof? Because it seems like to me that it is the Atheist who are playing craps with their lives. Theist seem more sensible from an agnostic point of view, don't you think? It sounds like you've had a rough road as a Christian, which is apparent from your sudden change in beliefs. But the word says, "Rejoice in our suffering, suffering produces perseverance, perseverance-character and character hope". If you jump off the train of suffering too soon, you'll never make it to the stop of pure faith, understanding, and peace on Earth which is possible through God's grace and his blessings.

All religious people I have met need religion to supplement a deficiency in their mental or physical being...aka...their soul. I was a Christian for over 30 years and I'm interested in those that believe, but don't need to believe. In the face of reason, and that they observe the improbability of the existence of anything of fantasy, but still believe. Are there any theists out there like this?

Now, what do you have to believe in? Belief is peace. But what can you tell me is certain in this world? The answer is nothing. God is certain and if you give him enough time to reveal himself to you, he will. Yes, God does fill a mental deficiency. But you should be jealous of those who have achieved this state, because you are not going to get it any other way. There is nothing certain on Earth. There is barely any truth. Nor is there any hope.

God is the truth. God is peace of mind. God is all powerful. God is hope. God will do for you, better than any street drug will do for you, if you only believed 100%. But believing this much takes time, patience, and living by the words of the Father.

This view is naive at best. So by your posts, I assume you to be an agnostic; as someone who deems it "impossible to know whether there is a God". But then you go on to attack theists for their "blind" faith or beliefs. For someone who entertains the possibility of there actually being a God, why would you be disgusted most by the people who choose to follow without evidence? Wouldn't they be an ounce bit smarter than the atheist who choose to deny without proof? Because it seems like to me that it is the Atheist who are playing craps with their lives. Theist seem more sensible from an agnostic point of view, don't you think? It sounds like you've had a rough road as a Christian, which is apparent from your sudden change in beliefs. But the word says, "Rejoice in our suffering, suffering produces perseverance, perseverance-character and character hope". If you jump off the train of suffering too soon, you'll never make it to the stop of pure faith, understanding, and peace on Earth which is possible through God's grace and his blessings.
*************
M*W: You're wrong. Atheists don't play the religion card. That's something theists do. Once in a while, a theist might just use the brain he was given to realize that he might be able to think for himself.

It's moot alright. There is NO outside to the universe. The universe is all there is.

There is no outside of the universe? Which train did you take to verify this? With all of the arguments posed by countless cosmologist who wonder if there are multi-verses, more dimensions, and branes from M-Theory.

Explain again, why there is nothing outside of the universe? And then tell me which theory you are quoting so I can see if experiments have been completed to prove it beyond 100% of reasonable doubt.

There is no outside of the universe? Which train did you take to verify this? With all of the arguments posed by countless cosmologist who wonder if there are multi-verses, more dimensions, and branes from M-Theory.

Explain again, why there is nothing outside of the universe? And then tell me which theory you are quoting so I can see if experiments have been completed to prove it beyond 100% of reasonable doubt.

'Universe' literally means 'all there is'.

Ingognito, why should, or rather, how could someone believe something without evidence? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

*************
M*W: You're wrong. Atheists don't play the religion card. That's something theists do. Once in a while, a theist might just use the brain he was given to realize that he might be able to think for himself.

Which portion of my post are you referring to? Because I mentioned nothing of religion or race cards. You, by the text under you moniker, spends too much time trying to disprove God and Jesus Christ; which maxes out your brains RAM and therefore can not see God in the little details in life caused by an actual physical and mental impairment created by an error of thought.

You're not even looking. So you will not see.

Most people who deny God are too afraid of giving up their own sinful ways. It looks much like cowardice, like the person who is terrified of change.

'Universe' literally means 'all there is'.

By human definition and observation. To see things literally is also by human definition and observation. You are taking literally the own words you've created. How about you take literally a word that was not created by a human.

Universe means all that there is. Are you telling me that scientists have ruled out an external source or energy that caused/provoked the Big Bang? If so, please quote the study and findings.

How about you take literally a word that was not created by a human.
:confused:
Show me some.


Universe means all that there is. Are you telling me that scientists have ruled out an external source or energy that caused/provoked the Big Bang? If so, please quote the study and findings.
If 'universe' means 'all there is', and it does, then anything else that is discovered "outside" the universe is actually also part of the universe. It's simple logic.

Ingognito, why should, or rather, how could someone believe something without evidence? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I know! The atheist is the only one here who is believing without evidence. And they don't even stop at disbelief, they make it their job to go out and squash theists with their little bits of information about evolution and universe origins.

Tell me the signs from nature that you experienced that serves as brick evidence for the proof of God's non-existence. You have none. All you have is arrogance and ego.

So this is why I am going to make it my duty to stomp out the little bit of ego you atheists hold dear. Because you are the most dangerous. Not religious folks. You have no reason for participating in moral constraint outside what is required of you by the law. And the act of winning and winning without a God to hold you down, only leads to madness, greed, and damage to society.

:confused:
Show me some.


If 'universe' means 'all there is', and it does, then anything else that is discovered "outside" the universe is actually also part of the universe. It's simple logic.

Who are you trying to fool? You're trying to hide behind words with failed logic? So God doesn't exist, because there is nothing outside of the universe. The universe is everything. But you know nothing about prior Big Bang. You don't know what it looks like. You don't know why it's caused. But you know that all things outside of the universe, prior Big Bang, is part of YOUR universe because of some man's definition of?

Why is up down? Why isn't down up? You're hiding behind human words and definitions of things not even fully understood.

Ingognito, I'm a theist, but you refered to religious people believing in god without evidence in a previous post. I don't understand how that is possible. Its a lie. You can't truly believe something unless you know it, and you can't truly know it unless you've experienced it, and may I point out that this is a lie that feeds the atheist arguement like junk food.

Who are you trying to fool? You're trying to hide behind words with failed logic?
Failed logic ? Point out where it fails then..


So God doesn't exist, because there is nothing outside of the universe.
Did I say that ?


The universe is everything. But you know nothing about prior Big Bang.
Irrelevant.


You don't know what it looks like.
Irrelevant.


You don't know why it's caused.
Irrelevant.


But you know that all things outside of the universe, prior Big Bang, is part of YOUR universe because of some man's definition of?
Correct.
The universe is the sum of everything in existence.


Why is up down? Why isn't down up? You're hiding behind human words and definitions of things not even fully understood.
:crazy:

Lori, many Christians believe without evidence. This is the common usage of faith. It is to believe without sight. Many Christians fall off of the bandwagon due to all of the factual evidence about evolution and the big bang being spewed every which way. Why would these outside factors affect faith so much, if every Christian had concrete evidence about God's existence.

It's moot alright. There is NO outside to the universe. The universe is all there is.

So you're saying that God is irrelevant but may possibly exist? How does that make sense? Please reply.

Lori, many Christians believe without evidence. This is the common usage of faith. It is to believe without sight. Many Christians fall off of the bandwagon due to all of the factual evidence about evolution and the big bang being spewed every which way. Why would these outside factors affect faith so much, if every Christian had concrete evidence about God's existence.

That is not faith. That is an unsubstantiated lie religious people like to believe because it makes them feel good. I have faith in what I know, and I know god.

So you're saying that God is irrelevant but may possibly exist? How does that make sense? Please reply.

If god exists he exists within the universe.

I'm not looking to argue with a theist. Maybe our definition of evidence is different. I was referring to evidence in the undeniable proof form. But if you're referring to the word of God as being evidence, then kudos to you. But many people call the Bible, our evidence, a great work of fiction. So it wasn't too convincing to them, right?

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.



Are you Christian, Lori?

If god exists he exists within the universe.

The "universe" being a word defined by man. Okay, I'll go with you. God exists within the universe. Anything outside of the big bang is part of the universe. So now how does all of the power that we're convinced He has become moot (irrelevant)? Since God is inside of the universe, is he contained by physics? Is the state of being outside of the big bang, constrained by the physics we've come to know? If you do not know, how then is God irrelevant if you know not whether he is constrained by the physics you've come to know?

You used moot. The OP used moot. Please explain.

I'm not looking to argue with a theist. Maybe our definition of evidence is different. I was referring to evidence in the undeniable proof form. But if you're referring to the word of God as being evidence, then kudos to you. But many people call the Bible, our evidence, a great work of fiction. So it wasn't too convincing to them, right?

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.



Are you Christian, Lori?

Yes, but not because it says I should be in a book. I am because that book became my life in a very real way. And honestly, in a way that scares the shit out of a lot of so called christians.

;) I hear you.

Now that I think about it. You'd better not refer to the Bible as some book. But God isn't square. He might understand. :D

If God is real, he exists by the same chance that we do (that's our best guess), and is on a higher plane than the universe, which is claimed to be its creation. If we are still discovering the secrets of the universe, how can we measure anything outside it. For all intent and purposes, nothing exists outside the known universe. This is a pointless and moot debate. There's no point in saying anything other than, "I don't know for sure, all I know is what can measure"
On the contrary there are many different types of knowledge that call upon many different means to determine validity.

One doesn't necessarily have to start introducing esoteric ideas to illustrate this.

For instance I bet even Dawkins has an authoritative version of who is his mother and father without ever having to call upon measurement (or dis he insist on DNA testing them before he sent them a mothers or fathers day card?)

As things stand at the moment, lots of progress over the past 200 years has been made in the field of empiricism (particularly physics, which has practically redefined all the other sciences).

As the parent/DNA example illustrates, holding empiricism as the monopolizing force for all knowable claims poses philosophical quandaries.


For all those zealots on both sides, claiming the truth, get some sense. There is or there is not. Pointless!
So this is the "new" truth, I take it


All religious people I have met need religion to supplement a deficiency in their mental or physical being...aka...their soul. I was a Christian for over 30 years and I'm interested in those that believe, but don't need to believe. In the face of reason, and that they observe the improbability of the existence of anything of fantasy, but still believe. Are there any theists out there like this?
The largest percentage of persons who take to religion do so to fulfill need (actually need driven action permeates quite a lot of the population ..... at the very least, there are good reasons why companies spend millions in advertising).

The next large are those in pursuit of some sort of power, wealth or opulence.

The next are those that are curious.

And finally there are those who are philosophically inclined

The earlier categories are not celebrated for being able to produce a consistently capable practitioner. After all, if a person takes to religion to fulfill an insignificant need, what comes of their religious practice when the need is fulfilled?

Now that I think about it. You'd better not refer to the Bible as some book. But God isn't square. He might understand. :D

"square", that's funny. I actually refer to it as a spiritual tool. And thank you for hearing me. :)

This view is naive at best. So by your posts, I assume you to be an agnostic; as someone who deems it "impossible to know whether there is a God".

Yes, I am agnostic, but there must be truth. But, no one in my lifetime is able to perceive it. I am disgusted by "blind" faith because I've had it, and I've seen its ugliness in other people and myself. Coupled with pride and blind faith, a Christian is dangerous to humanity and there is proof in history. Thankfully, today's laws keep it at bay and isolated within the religious community.

Although not as dramatic as the Crusades, years ago the church I spent years in was a victim of blind faith from the pulpit. It's not anything new, it happens all the time. Churches are split because of it. The whole mentality that everyone believes they are correct because they accept it without question is detrimental to the fellowship called for in scripture. I despise blind faith because it is a logical fallacy, tends to sleep with pride, and is therefore dangerous.

On the other side of the coin, some atheists are the same and equally dangerous.

And there is nothing sudden about my position. It has taken nearly 6 years to be deprogrammed, and it is still going.

Now, what do you have to believe in? Belief is peace. But what can you tell me is certain in this world? The answer is nothing. God is certain and if you give him enough time to reveal himself to you, he will. Yes, God does fill a mental deficiency. But you should be jealous of those who have achieved this state, because you are not going to get it any other way. There is nothing certain on Earth. There is barely any truth. Nor is there any hope.

God is the truth. God is peace of mind. God is all powerful. God is hope. God will do for you, better than any street drug will do for you, if you only believed 100%. But believing this much takes time, patience, and living by the words of the Father.

Belief is peace, and unbelief is peace. The war of the mind to insist that you must believe because scripture says is maddening. God is not certain because it is not proven. I'll give him all the time that I have to reveal itself.



There is nothing certain on the Earth. There is barely any truth. Nor is there any hope.

Lies. IF there was a God, I would add those are lies from the devil.

Such a dismal outlook of the world that some believers have....that the only place of rescue, sanctuary, and everything else that is "good" comes from God. It is suffocating of life itself. Once I released myself of this, life became precious and to be treasured. Misinterpreted scripture would have you believe you are a piece of shit and only good with God in you.

Are you trying to tempt me into choosing God to replace the drug on the street?

I need no drug, nor God to be full of joy and love. This is why I said most believers can't live in the state of peace that is past understanding without the belief in God.

I already have peace, a glimpse of truth, and hope. Moreso than I ever had with God.

No, you are not the type of believer I am looking for. You are still brainwashed and unable to question. The best thing you can do is be honest with yourself. That truth will set your mind free.

There is no outside of the universe? Which train did you take to verify this? With all of the arguments posed by countless cosmologist who wonder if there are multi-verses, more dimensions, and branes from M-Theory.

Explain again, why there is nothing outside of the universe? And then tell me which theory you are quoting so I can see if experiments have been completed to prove it beyond 100% of reasonable doubt.

Why do you require 100% proof to relinquish belief, but very little proof to have complete faith? How is that logical and fair judgement?

Most people who deny God are too afraid of giving up their own sinful ways. It looks much like cowardice, like the person who is terrified of change.

You are still buying into this crap from three Sunday's ago? This is overgeneralizing. I don't believe most people deny God because they are afraid. But, the thought is encouraging to believe in God, so they preach this all the time. Unscriptural. This is speculation.

I postulate that most people are not afraid to give up their faults and "sinful" ways. Most people want to improve themselves continually for the betterment of mankind. It is not the denial of God that is cowardice, it is the denial of self-doubt that is. It is very difficult, sometimes deep down difficult to leave the faith. It hurts, it doesn't feel right if you're indoctrinated. You get scared, and grab hold of religion. I've been there as a worship leader in my church. Just for peace and because you are conditioned, you throw doubt out of your mind and explain it away as an attack from evil like a good believer.

It is much braver for a person to say, "Wait, that can't be true" than for him to say "That must be true because other people/things say it is true"

I know! The atheist is the only one here who is believing without evidence. And they don't even stop at disbelief, they make it their job to go out and squash theists with their little bits of information about evolution and universe origins.


I don't believe anything without evidence. Of course, I'm not much of an atheist.

BUT

You are making the polar opposite argument atheists say of theists.



Tell me the signs from nature that you experienced that serves as brick evidence for the proof of God's non-existence. You have none. All you have is arrogance and ego.


The same can be said of you. You have no proof of God's existence.



So this is why I am going to make it my duty to stomp out the little bit of ego you atheists hold dear. Because you are the most dangerous. Not religious folks. You have no reason for participating in moral constraint outside what is required of you by the law. And the act of winning and winning without a God to hold you down, only leads to madness, greed, and damage to society.


This was my mission about 8 years ago. I wish you luck, and only hope you end up a better person for taking this path as I have.

I wish I could help you, but you have to figure this out yourself.

But, the secret is that you were lied to. Some religious folks and some atheists are dangerous. "Evil" is not an exclusive club.

Everyone has every reason to participate in moral constraint outside of law for the good of all.

There is much beauty in accomplishments and there is no evidence that success without God leads to madness, greed, and damage to society.

These are lies and unscriptural. You can continue judging if you like, that all people without God cannot achieve morality, peace, love, and goodness, but I was really hoping to find theists unlike your current set of beliefs. Those types may be able to talk some sense into me....or rather some goodness or something that leads me to an encounter with God, where I will have evidence.

I've been struggling with my spirituality for several years. Only recently have I really begun to look into it. The evidence pointing towards the non existence of God is certainly strong, but despite this evidence I still believe in a higher power of some sort.


What do you mean by higher power? There could be beings much more powerful than us yet that wouldn't mean they're gods. There could be beings who can do things people think are impossible & that our current knowledge cannot explain yet that wouldn't mean they're gods.





What I'd like to know is who in this world would be stupid enough to believe they aren't brainwashed by something to some degree?

I don't believe in god cause I have to. I believe in god because I've observed it and interacted with it, and that's the label I felt was appropriate given logical definition. I could call it something else if I wanted to, but its something. Well, its something else...


What do you mean by "to some degree"?

What else could you call it if you wanted to?

This view is naive at best. So by your posts, I assume you to be an agnostic; as someone who deems it "impossible to know whether there is a God". But then you go on to attack theists for their "blind" faith or beliefs. For someone who entertains the possibility of there actually being a God, why would you be disgusted most by the people who choose to follow without evidence? Wouldn't they be an ounce bit smarter than the atheist who choose to deny without proof? Because it seems like to me that it is the Atheist who are playing craps with their lives. Theist seem more sensible from an agnostic point of view, don't you think? It sounds like you've had a rough road as a Christian, which is apparent from your sudden change in beliefs. But the word says, "Rejoice in our suffering, suffering produces perseverance, perseverance-character and character hope". If you jump off the train of suffering too soon, you'll never make it to the stop of pure faith, understanding, and peace on Earth which is possible through God's grace and his blessings.


That is naive, at best.

I know! The atheist is the only one here who is believing without evidence.

No, there is plenty of evidence theists are deluded.


And they don't even stop at disbelief, they make it their job to go out and squash theists with their little bits of information about evolution and universe origins.

So terribly sorry to have to inject a bit of reality into your fantasies. We just can't help ourselves.


Tell me the signs from nature that you experienced that serves as brick evidence for the proof of God's non-existence. You have none. All you have is arrogance and ego.

I mentioned to someone else that I climbed up Mount Olympus and did not see Zeus, his kingdom, or any other gods for that matter. But, I'm sure you're not arrogant or egotistic enough to produce evidence of your gods existence.


So this is why I am going to make it my duty to stomp out the little bit of ego you atheists hold dear. Because you are the most dangerous.

Yes well, we'll just ignore the centuries of bloodshed, horror and cruelty your cult has inflicted on the world.


Not religious folks. You have no reason for participating in moral constraint outside what is required of you by the law. And the act of winning and winning without a God to hold you down, only leads to madness, greed, and damage to society.

Is it any wonder prisons are full of Christians? Perhaps they ignore the law in favor of their gods commands?

Ingognito, why should, or rather, how could someone believe something without evidence? That makes absolutely no sense to me.


That's what you do.

The "universe" being a word defined by man. Okay, I'll go with you. God exists within the universe. Anything outside of the big bang is part of the universe. So now how does all of the power that we're convinced He has become moot (irrelevant)? Since God is inside of the universe, is he contained by physics? Is the state of being outside of the big bang, constrained by the physics we've come to know? If you do not know, how then is God irrelevant if you know not whether he is constrained by the physics you've come to know?

You used moot. The OP used moot. Please explain.

The debate of God's existence is pointless because there is no evidence for all to examine. Some people like Lori have their personal experience, and that is what maybe I will have someday. I'm open to that, but aside from that, there is no empirical evidence to make any conclusion about the matter. So, why debate?

Instead, I'd like to move forward with my undestanding of the truth and I don't care much where I need to learn it. From the pulpit to the streets, everything is evidence that I need to reach the 3rd epiphany I hope for in the future.

Above all, keep moving forward on your journey and don't be stuck in you beliefs because someone always knows more than you.

Lori, many Christians believe without evidence.

They all do.


This is the common usage of faith. It is to believe without sight.

It is also to believe despite the factual evidence. This is the common usage of delusion.

Seriously, back to topic....I am looking for theists to tell their side of the story. Some theists who have agnostic tendencies...appologetic theists even. Specifically, I would like to find post-modern Christians, if they truly exist. I'd like to know their take on God. Perhaps this is the wrong place, but it doesn't hurt to try.

Seriously, back to topic....I am looking for theists to tell their side of the story. Some theists who have agnostic tendencies...appologetic theists even. Specifically, I would like to find post-modern Christians, if they truly exist. I'd like to know their take on God. Perhaps this is the wrong place, but it doesn't hurt to try.

I will respond, but only to an unbrainwashed atheist. Haven't found one yet.

-=-

That is goofy.

The "universe" being a word defined by man. Okay, I'll go with you. God exists within the universe. Anything outside of the big bang is part of the universe. So now how does all of the power that we're convinced He has become moot (irrelevant)? Since God is inside of the universe, is he contained by physics? Is the state of being outside of the big bang, constrained by the physics we've come to know? If you do not know, how then is God irrelevant if you know not whether he is constrained by the physics you've come to know?

You used moot. The OP used moot. Please explain.


If God is real, he exists by the same chance that we do (that's our best guess), and is on a higher plane than the universe, which is claimed to be its creation. If we are still discovering the secrets of the universe, how can we measure anything outside it. For all intent and purposes, nothing exists outside the known universe. This is a pointless and moot debate.
So, "If God [..] is on a higher plane than the universe* [..] This is a pointless and moot debate."

The OP said that there is nothing outside the known universe. I corrected him and said there is only the universe.

Furthermore, and I didn't even intend to make this point, if God is part of the universe his characteristics as described in the bible don't hold up.


* i.e. if that is part of the definition of god.

*************
M*W: You're wrong. Atheists don't play the religion card. That's something theists do. Once in a while, a theist might just use the brain he was given to realize that he might be able to think for himself.

that's the good step freethinkers take and become atheists.. i ask them to keep walking i.e as you said think for themselves. when they do that correctly and heavily, they will realize they can't -aren't able to- think for themselves, and so they return in line with sheep, but with a more intelligent stand and a better sense of self.

that realization (the second one) is what most atheists fail to do, and is what intelligent, highly scientific theists successfully did.

note that the whole realization of one's ability thing is partial, somethings religion says you can't reach with a satisfactory answer by yourself, and so gives you dogma, which proves being satisfactory against any other answer a humans try to reach by themselves. like i demonstrated in the thread: heh heh heh.

those are the first part, the second part is what religions keeps open for competition and improvement, simply; science. dogma doesn't tell you how a plane should be, where a bridge should be put, what corpses to plant, what wife to marry, what sport to play, what medicine to give to which disease, what best method of communication is, and so on, there's a big space for advancement, and for choice and difference.

but the other fields of knowledge which can't be reached, let alone advanced, and don't contain the luxury of difference, dogma dictates.

so yes you can think for yourself, and no you can't think for yourself.

that's why we have "dumb" "sheep", we have atheists, and he have "smart" "sheep".

What do you mean by "to some degree"?

i just mean that there's no such thing as perfect knowledge on this earth, and that we live in a world full of lies. people are brainwashed by alot of things...the govt, the media, their own emotions, their own egos, and their own perceptions. i guess i'm equating brainwashing to believing something that's not entirely true, and i think that everyone does that to some degree about everything.


What else could you call it if you wanted to?

i don't know...i could call it "it". i could call it "the universe". i could call it "bob". lol. god is just a label...it's a word...a part of a language that we use to communicate, but that label doesn't define it. it defines itself.