And if so, why? You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel. You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?

And if so, why?

Yes.
Why not? do you know something I don't regarding my wife, kids, work?


You deny life after death.

Is that supposed effect my happiness?


Your life is meaningless drivel.

I had no idea thanks for the update :rolleyes:


You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival.
Do you actually fight for survival? No wonder your outlook is bleaker than mine.


This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?

It's your outlook so how do you cope??

And if so, why?

Just like theists, some are and some are not. When atheists are happy, I suspect it is because of enjoyment and satisfaction they encounter in their lives.



You deny life after death.

Denying something implies that it exists. Many Atheists simply understand that consciousness is a function of the brain and that death will ultimately cause the brain to stop functioning. Other Atheists think that consciousness doesn't end with death. Atheism isn't concerned with life after death (thats a different delusion).



Your life is meaningless drivel.

The meaning of a life is the relationship of that life to everything it can possibly have a relationship with. That is so chalk full of meaning that no person on Earth has the mental capacity to process the result.



You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival.

Souls don't exist and survival takes work because of our biological dependency on energy and the affects of entropy on biology.



This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?

Your interpretation is what's bleak and its the result of an absence of understanding. It is easier to put human characteristics on reality and end up with a magical 'sky daddy' than explore reality and understand it for what it is.

Merely because life is finite does not mean it is meaningless. As a matter of fact, the transience of life is exactly what gives importance to every achievement and every relationship.

You are placing an assumed outlook on athiests without having a single idea of what the mindset actually is.

I guess you aren't searching for too much meaning. Mindless enchantment with your own bodily functions. Good for you.

I guess you aren't searching for too much meaning. Mindless enchantment with your own bodily functions. Good for you.

pathetic :rolleyes:

"Denying something implies that is exists". Huh? I thought denying something was saying something didn't exist - not implying that it does exist. What atheists believe there is consciousness after death?

That's so weird. I actually had this conversation with a believer. They were surprised I was an atheist and the first thing they said was "But...but..you're so happy". If analyze it, I've wasted time I could have spent with my kids. Time I will never get back. To be honest I think that's why I only sleep 6 hrs a day. I don't want to waste it.

Knowing that I will die makes me appreciate this life so much more. Knowing I won't enjoy it in heaven makes me enjoy everything now. Knowing I won't see my Mom in heaven has drawn me closer to her now.

My life is about Now.

john Why do you care so much about what athiests think or don't think shouldn't you be more concerned with your own salvation?

They threaten him obviously, which means his faith isn't as strong as it should be.

Because atheists and the religious are the most defensive groups on this chat room, and the ones most likely to respond to my questions. I am simply bored at work and need some stimulating conversation.

"Denying something implies that is exists". Huh? I thought denying something was saying something didn't exist - not implying that it does exist. What atheists believe there is consciousness after death?

The most common usage with the word 'deny' is to 'withhold'; hence, the implication. Normally it wouldn't be important; however, I have seen enough Theists intentionally use the 'withold' definition to load their questions with meanings such as "You know 'God' exists so why do you 'Withold" your acknowledgment of that fact?".

....Souls don't exist....

Soul is mind, will, and emotion. How can soul not exist?

We are spirits. We live in bodies. We have souls.

Spirits are eternal. I don't understand how someone can be satisfied knowing theirs will burn in hell when they were given the choice of Heaven. :confused:

I don't see how "withhold" implies that you believe anything. You are simply withholding your belief - which is a fiction anyway. I don't get the need for semantics on this one.

Most rational people would not want their soul to burn in hell. Consequently, they must be denying they have a soul. As there is no physical evidence for the existence of a soul, telling people who only believe what they see that they have a soul is a tough sell. Get it, sister?

Soul is mind, will, and emotion. How can soul not exist?

We are spirits. We live in bodies. We have souls.and your proof for this is where,


Spirits are eternal. I don't understand how someone can be satisfied knowing theirs will burn in hell when they were given the choice of Heaven. :confused:I dont know how someone can be satified, knowing their loved ones who didn't follow their faith (children, brothers sisters,etc) will burn in hell, whilst their in heaven, would that not be just as hellish.

So they are denying they have no minds? No will? No emotions? :confused:
The "no minds" I can understand :D Joking... But seriously, these are some of the "smartest" people in the world and they think they have no soul? I think they just have soul and spirit confused. ;)

What is the difference between a soul and a spirit?

and your proof for this is where,
I dont know how someone can be satified, knowing their loved ones who didn't follow their faith (children, brothers sisters,etc) will burn in hell, whilst their in heaven, would that not be just as hellish.

A wider perspective: I don't know if I (were I christian) would be able to stand it if I knew strangers of other faiths who were moral people were burning in hell simply because of a differing philosophy.

And if so, why? You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel. You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?

Sometimes. Why? Because sometimes things make me happy. When things go right, when I accomplish something, when it's a nice day and I have nothing to worry about...

I deny a God. Life after death is a different matter. There could be an afterlife without a God. Death itself is a transition, a return to the source of life, to our constituent atoms- eventually to be incorporated again. The inference is that things that last are more meaningful than things that are temporal. But look at the things we value, most of them don't last- childhood, a rainbow, a good cup of coffee or a great meal, vacations. So I don't see how just because something is temporal, it is less meaningless. The rarity of something makes it more valuable. My temporary form is meaningful because it is the accumulation- the end result-of billions of years of evolution and even if I die, I will be another link in the chain of cause and effect leading to whatever comes after.

If I thought death led automatically to paradise, I would be more likely to kill myself, not unlike those suicide bombers.

And if so, why? You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel. You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?

I don't get it. How is life meaningless drivel unless there's a second life or third life? Why does having only 1 make it any less meaningful than having 2 or 10,000?

Let's be frank here, but the opposite seems more logical. Knowing you've got more lives to come undoubtedly lowers the value of this one - especially when this one is merely to show you're a nice little human before the "real" life starts.

Your views are not only quite shocking, they're extremely naive.


Soul is mind, will, and emotion. How can soul not exist?

We are spirits. We live in bodies. We have souls.

Not exactly.

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/mind.html

So you're looking at yourself as "childhood, a rainbow, a good cup of coffee or a great meal, vacations"? Life's a vacation - enjoy it while it lasts. Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die! Live for the now, forget the future! This sort of intoxicating talk must be hiding a deep depressing denial of sorts.

So you're looking at yourself as "childhood, a rainbow, a good cup of coffee or a great meal, vacations"? Life's a vacation - enjoy it while it lasts. Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die! Live for the now, forget the future! ....

EXACTLY!! Its what I do. :D
(but I do save for retirement)

Ah, you're assuming life in the great beyond is the same as it is on Earth. Life after death would almost have to be more meaningful, wouldn't it?

....Not exactly...http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/mind.html


You have your definition of soul and spirit. I have mine.

This life on earth is only a flash, a nanosecond of eternity. I want to spend the rest with Him. :)

So you're looking at yourself as "childhood, a rainbow, a good cup of coffee or a great meal, vacations"? Life's a vacation - enjoy it while it lasts. Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die! Live for the now, forget the future! This sort of intoxicating talk must be hiding a deep depressing denial of sorts.

Needless to say, this wasn't an answer to the questions I posed. Kindly explain to me in your own words why having 2 lives is more meaningful than having 1 life.


You have your definition of soul and spirit. I have mind.


Oh, that's how it works is it? We just go about making our own definitions for the fun of it? Fair enough.

You are assuming life on Earth is the same as life in Heaven. How could it be? You're not on Earth. If there is an afterlife and assuming you don't get thrown into hell, a life with God would surely be more meaningful than a life on Earth. I don't believe theists are saying that life in Heaven is the same as life on Earth.

You are assuming life on Earth is the same as life in Heaven. How could it be?

No I'm not. I am asking you to explain how 1 life, (this one), is meaningless whether there is a second life, (same/similar/completely bloody different), or not.


If there is an afterlife and assuming you don't get thrown into hell, a life with God would surely be more meaningful than a life on Earth

Why? What are you going to do or accomplish in this heaven of yours? What will be your greatest moment in heaven? "Out of all the billions upon billions of years I spent bowing to one being, I like day 724,565,678,765 the best. I bowed better that day than any other day since".

Further to which, by now you should know my argument against heaven, (when you have a loved one that never arrived). I personally consider physical torture somewhat milder than mental torture. If the person you love the most is burning, (forever and ever and ever), boy will you be suffering in heaven.

Ah, you are making assumptions about how theists perceive Heaven which may not be true. Who says you bow down to God every day? This is a naive notion of Heaven. If Heaven is a union with God, I would guess you get to see things the way God does. Wouldn't that be more meaningful?

Ah, you are making assumptions about how theists perceive Heaven which may not be true

I did actually ask; "Why? What are you going to do or accomplish in this heaven of yours?"

However, you still haven't answered the question. Why is 1 life meaningless?

So you're looking at yourself as "childhood, a rainbow, a good cup of coffee or a great meal, vacations"? Life's a vacation - enjoy it while it lasts. Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die! Live for the now, forget the future! This sort of intoxicating talk must be hiding a deep depressing denial of sorts.

Yes, I'm an Epicurean. Surprisingly, the Epicureans did not party every day, some lived on bread and water. The reason is that maximizing pleasure requires anticipation of the future. If you know that partying hard will result in several days of hangover, then pleasure is not maximized. Good health is a part of enjoying life to it's fullest.

What can you accomplish in Heaven as if you were on Earth? Being in union with God's "mind" will leave you without need of accomplishment. If there is no God, then life is meaningless. We are just a geological formation being pushed around by the sun's energy. What's the meaning in that?

Being in union with God's "mind" will leave you without need of accomplishment

What's the point of that?


If there is no God, then life is meaningless.

To a theist, yes.

There's ultimately where we differ. You need to believe in sky fairies to find any meaning in your own life. See..


We are just a geological formation being pushed around by the sun's energy. What's the meaning in that?

When you can answer that question, you'll no longer be a theist.

...Oh, that's how it works is it? We just go about making our own definitions for the fun of it? Fair enough.

I didn't make this up. It's Biblical. God said it first. Debate Him.

Here, these guys explain it better than I can:
http://www.changinglives.org/?m=atp&a=get_atp_qanda&id=563

http://www.bennyhinn.org/yourlife/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1693&Itemid=227

I didn't make this up. It's Biblical. God said it first. Debate Him.


Incorrect. Men wrote it first - and not "biblical" men but earlier men that the biblical writers 'borrowed' from. Try again.

Benny Hinn? :roflmao:

How does life without God have any meaning? O.K., so you can find happiness and pleasure. But that's not meaning. You're existence is pointless. The rest of the universe doesn't care if you live or die.

What can you accomplish in Heaven as if you were on Earth? Being in union with God's "mind" will leave you without need of accomplishment. If there is no God, then life is meaningless. We are just a geological formation being pushed around by the sun's energy. What's the meaning in that?

So if we are a self-organizing collection of organic molecules powered indirectly from a sustained and distant fusion reaction, that doesn't have any significance for you?

O.K., so you can find happiness and pleasure.

Those are two of many "meanings" to life. There you go, life does have meaning.


But that's not meaning. You're existence is pointless.

To who?


The rest of the universe doesn't care if you live or die.

Since when did what the 'rest of the universe' thinks have any impact on your own life?

Now tell me, what "meaning" is there in living a life with god?

Sounds like the spirit is short-term change and the soul is long-term change. Is this what you are saying?

Sounds like the spirit is short-term change and the soul is long-term change. Is this what you are saying?

No, that's what you're saying. I tend not to bring fictional things like spirits and souls into an argument. What I'm saying is shown exactly on my post.

Anyway, once more.. what meaning is there in living a life with a god?

The fact that I am alive has no significance to the universe and therefore no meaning. Whether life has significance to me does not create meaning. All you are saying is that the meaning of life is to live. If that's all the meaning, then why aren't we all self-actualized? Instead, we are searching for meaning. Raising the question itself by so many proves meaning isn't found in life itself. Living a life with God would have to be meaningful. After all, you get to see the universe in an omnipotent omniscient way wouldn't you? What more would you want?

The fact that I am alive has no significance to the universe and therefore no meaning.

Why? How is what the universe thinks or not of any relevance to anything?


Whether life has significance to me does not create meaning.

Why?


All you are saying is that the meaning of life is to live.

What is wrong with that?


then why aren't we all self-actualized? Instead, we are searching for meaning.

Clearly you are. Like I said earlier, once you manage to answer the question that you asked, you'll no longer be a theist.


Living a life with God would have to be meaningful.

Why?


After all, you get to see the universe in an omnipotent omniscient way wouldn't you?

Wouldn't know. Where does it claim that?


What more would you want?

Sorry, you found "seeing the universe in an omnipotent, omniscient way" as fun or meaningful? No offence but it sounds plain miserable to me. The very second omniscience comes into the equation there's nothing left to know or explore. There's instantly no value to anything because you already know it all.

Star Trek gets into this with the various episodes featuring the Q, (mainly in Voyager). How more boring can an existence get when there's nothing to see, know or do?

Again, you are presuming the after life in like Earthly life - that we think and feel the same - that we get bored. If you do have an after life, I rather much doubt it would be like this life. Fun is not the same as meaning. Meaning is purpose. Sure, your life has purpose to life. But so what? Life is no substitute for God. Sure the universe doesn't literally think and therefore really can't care about me. That's just an expression. I'm looking at the big picture, you're looking at the small picture. If you can ignore the big picture, then sure life is it's own meaning. You're sticking your head in the sand, though.

Soul is mind, will, and emotion. How can soul not exist?

We are spirits. We live in bodies. We have souls.

Spirits are eternal. I don't understand how someone can be satisfied knowing theirs will burn in hell when they were given the choice of Heaven. :confused:

Probably what you are defining as spirit many others define as soul. The point being is that there is zero evidence that your consciousness has the ability to persist once all cellular activity in your brain / nervous system has stopped.

Also, there is no evidence that a 'place' of eternal reward or eternal punishment exists, let alone an omnipotent life form that supposedly 'created' the places.

I don't see how "withhold" implies that you believe anything. You are simply withholding your belief - which is a fiction anyway. I don't get the need for semantics on this one.

The semantics tend to matter because I have seen a pattern of Theists loading their questions. It apprently doesn't apply to yours as you have amply clarified the meaning you intended.

The fact that I am alive has no significance to the universe and therefore no meaning. Whether life has significance to me does not create meaning. All you are saying is that the meaning of life is to live. If that's all the meaning, then why aren't we all self-actualized? Instead, we are searching for meaning. Raising the question itself by so many proves meaning isn't found in life itself. Living a life with God would have to be meaningful. After all, you get to see the universe in an omnipotent omniscient way wouldn't you? What more would you want?

The entire universe is not something that can make such humanoid judgements. Meaning is something humans create. Meaning is only meaningful in relation to something else, there is no such thing as abstracted meaning. I'm saying there is no inherent meaning to anything of itself. You could personally think something is meaningful in relation to your life. The universe is full of cold indifference. Personally, I think the search for this abstract meaning is pointless and artificial. We search for meaning because that's a cultural value. Meaning has to do with motivation. Motivation is not an inherent quality of matter.

The search for meaning is like an addiction, if you found your life meaningful, you wouldn't seek anything else like an afterlife.

Again, you are presuming the after life in like Earthly life - that we think and feel the same - that we get bored.

I would submit that if we do not think as we do now, or feel as we do now.. then there's absolutely no bloody point to it because... we're not us. You're not you, who gives a shit? You're still therefore only living this one life as you that has as much meaning as you give it. You consider this life meaningless while looking forward to a life where you're not even you anymore. Where exactly is the point or value?


Sure, your life has purpose to life. But so what?

Finally at least we agree there is purpose. What do you mean "so what?" So nothing.. Where are we going with this?

You've said eventually we go somewhere where we're not even us and then apparently have "purpose" because we see the universe from omnipotence and omniscience.. Same question to you.. So what?


Life is no substitute for God

To you, clearly. Kindly don't try and make out that your statement is an absolute. It isn't.


I'm looking at the big picture, you're looking at the small picture.

What picture? What do you mean "big picture"? You're making up future lives because you currently have no worth, (to yourself), in this one. I don't make up future lives because I have my purpose and worth right here.


You're sticking your head in the sand, though.

Your statement is meaningless. Show me anything other than this life and I'll investigate - but don't think you dreaming up such fantasy means everyone else is sticking their heads in the sand. Do not think for one second that because you can't find purpose for your existence here that nobody else can and do not think for one second that because you find some "purpose" in not being you anymore with some god being that everyone else would find such an idea even remotely bearable let alone worthwhile.

The entire universe is not something that can make such humanoid judgements. Meaning is something humans create. Meaning is only meaningful in relation to something else, there is no such thing as abstracted meaning. I'm saying there is no inherent meaning to anything of itself. You could personally think something is meaningful in relation to your life. The universe is full of cold indifference. Personally, I think the search for this abstract meaning is pointless and artificial. We search for meaning because that's a cultural value. Meaning has to do with motivation. Motivation is not an inherent quality of matter.

The search for meaning is like an addiction, if you found your life meaningful, you wouldn't seek anything else like an afterlife.

Meaning is literally the relationship of two or more variables and exists with or without human interpretation. Specific relationships might give a person a moment of pleasure / pain, but meaning is quite overly abundant.

I think people tend to confuse 'meaning' and 'purpose'. Reality has given life on earth a purpose and that is to persist (reproduction being the method to overcome entropy). Any other purpose is human-chosen.

That's right. The purpose of life is to persist. Any other purpose is human-chosen. Except, of course, if God exists. That's another ball of wax entirely. Then, the purpose of life is in relation to God. There is no meaning to life beyond persisting. Hey, can that be fun? Sure! You bet! But, is it meaningful? No. But I guess if you can overlook that fact, than there is meaning to life for an atheist.

And if so, why? You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel. You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?

Yes I am very happy, but I don't know if I'd go as far to say that I'm happy because I'm an atheist. Having said that, my beliefs have lead me to an intense appreciation of life, as it is the only one I'll get. Not to say I didn't appreciate it while I was a theist, but it was somewhat regarded as not as important as the next life; death was casually seen as ("really, if you think about it...") the best thing that could happen.

Now I think that such thoughts distract from truly living and enjoying our only life here. So I would profusely disagree that my life is meaningless drivel, and I am slightly offended that you would ignorantly smear your stereotype upon all atheists. Shame on you.

But appreciating life is not the same as the meaning of life. Of course, if you don't believe in God, then your strategy of pretending enjoyment of life is meaning I guess works fine - but must leave a hole?

Then I suppose cows should find meaning in their being designed by God as dinner for people?

Then I suppose cows should find meaning in their being designed by God as dinner for people?

You're underestimating their worth. There's also milk, leather, buttons, comb and fertilizer, as well as biogas

Since when do cows search for meaning? Show me a cow that searches for meaning - and I'll show you a cow that could pay for dinner instead.

So I propose that man searches for meaning only because he can. It's entirely unnecessary to be a happy and healthy creature on Earth. Most social animals find meaning in belonging to their tribe. Since we are social apes, could it be that we seek in the idea of God, that which we are missing in our society? Monotheism arose along with civilization and cities. Could it be that our connection with nature is what gave us meaning in the past?

Happy and an atheist. I am happy for many reasons guess it is because I have already been clinically dead once and it feels good to be able to function and live a productive life, watch my child grow up, and help make other people happy.

The fact that I am alive has no significance to the universe and therefore no meaning. Whether life has significance to me does not create meaning. All you are saying is that the meaning of life is to live. If that's all the meaning, then why aren't we all self-actualized?

Did Thomas Edison's life have no meaning or will you give up the lights in your house? Did A.G. Bell's achieve something? You bet, with far-reaching ramifications. Else throw away your cellphone.

Sure, Edison and Bell didn't affect the entire universe, but why must they or the rest of us have any impact on the cosmos at all to make meaning for our lives? I put it to you that if you honestly believe that you must affect the universe for your life to have meaning, you are doomed to the very bleak existence that you project on athiests.

And now for the question...what does the purported existence of a god have to do with these two exemplar meaningful lives?




Instead, we are searching for meaning. Raising the question itself by so many proves meaning isn't found in life itself. Living a life with God would have to be meaningful. After all, you get to see the universe in an omnipotent omniscient way wouldn't you? What more would you want?

You are slightly mistaken. Humans are searching more often than not for the origin of life. Sometimes they're even searching for satisfaction and happiness. This is not necessarily the same thing as life's "meaning".

Why must living a life with god be meaningful? Would you be assisting in the maintenance of the cosmos? Or would you just be a part of a massive herd of amorphous creatures singing his name? What makes you think that you'd be omnipotent and omniscient if there is a heaven and you get to live a life with god? LG seems to think there can only be one omnipotence. Personally if I were that omnipotence, I wouldn't be giving power away to you human lunkheads just because you lived for 7 or 8 odd decades.

But appreciating life is not the same as the meaning of life. Of course, if you don't believe in God, then your strategy of pretending enjoyment of life is meaning I guess works fine - but must leave a hole?

You leave a hole simply because you created it. To ask the question "why" already assumes there is a reason, when there might just well be none.

If I was to ask you "Where is your father's hidden buried treasure?" You would say, "That doesn't make sense because my father doesn't have a hidden buried treasure." You'd be right in doing so. I may perceive your answer to be missing something tremendous, but that's only because I've made the presumption that your dad has buried treasure.

That's right. The purpose of life is to persist. Any other purpose is human-chosen.

You bet.



Except, of course, if God exists. That's another ball of wax entirely. Then, the purpose of life is in relation to God.

How does the existence of an omnipotent life form change life's purpose?



There is no meaning to life beyond persisting.

Of course there is. Meaning IS the relationship between two or more variables. Can you give me a value of how many relationships life has to anything it can have a relationship with? Probably not because that value is likely greater than you are I could verbally count to in a lifetime.



Hey, can that be fun? Sure! You bet! But, is it meaningful? No. But I guess if you can overlook that fact, than there is meaning to life for an atheist.

I think you are confused between the difference between meaning and purpose and your present value system wont allow you to value life's purpose or whatever sentient life chooses for itself. It seems as if for you that purpose only becomes valuable if assigned to you by an omnipotent life form.

Ah, meaning in life is gained by serving others? Like Edison and A.G. Bell. No, this just makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. This isn't meaning. Meaning is purpose in the abstract sense. Without a God, there is no meaning. There's what makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but even Edison and A.G. Bell are still quite meaningless to the universe. Sorry guys.

So I propose that man searches for meaning only because he can. It's entirely unnecessary to be a happy and healthy creature on Earth. Most social animals find meaning in belonging to their tribe. Since we are social apes, could it be that we seek in the idea of God, that which we are missing in our society? Monotheism arose along with civilization and cities. Could it be that our connection with nature is what gave us meaning in the past?

After reading my last post, let's then question why we have such a desire for purpose. This is answered simply enough:

Notice, as members already have, that animals don't search for meaning in their lives. This is because they aren't intellectually developed as we are, if we were to somehow inject a cat with a dose of super intelligence, then it'd be a safe bet to see questions of mathematics, philosophy, and purpose emerging. If that's to rhetorical of a scenario, recognize that we witness this development everywhere, even in our own species. Babies don't understand math, philosophy, or have any sense of purpose whatsoever. It's not to say that the potential isn't there, but that they just haven't passed that milestone yet.

So let's clairvoyantly travel back to the dawn of humanity's creativity; whether it was the spear, cup, wheel, fire, or whatever, this first manifestation of creativity was made with a specific purpose in mind. Thank goodness this happened, today we are surrounded by millions of inventions and tools, all with specific purposes in mind. This kind of development breeds an odd type of thinking, however. Because we are so immersed in an exponentially increasing purpose-oriented society, we naturally turn introspectively (once again, a product of evolved intelligence) and are able to linguistically and philosophically engineer the question around ourselves; why are we here? This question amplifies organization and growth, as we can greatly see from our progress as a species. It allows us to excel as the dominant species, so there's really no mystery as to why we have such a strong gravity towards a purpose for our own existence.

Note however that, as stated above, just because we can form this question doesn't mean it has an answer.

If God exists and has apparently made his presence known to us, we must be special to God. Life than has a purpose - to create us so that we can be with God.

Why did God create us? Was he lonely?

Without a God, there is no meaning.

For the last time I am going to ask that you stop giving absolutes merely because of the way you personally feel. There's plenty of meaning and purpose to those without gods, as much so as those of you with them.

You propose that we are seeking God because we no longer live in tribes? But, aren't there actual tribal peoples that believe in God? Isn't our families a tribe? Our friends and associates a "tribe"? I don't think we have lost our tribal ways.

If there is a God, I have no idea why he created us. I imagine you wouldn't know that one until the after life.

You propose that we are seeking God because we no longer live in tribes? But, aren't there actual tribal peoples that believe in God? Isn't our families a tribe? Our friends and associates a "tribe"? I don't think we have lost our tribal ways.

If this is a response to my post, then I think you need to go back and read it more carefully.

Ah, meaning in life is gained by serving others? Like Edison and A.G. Bell. No, this just makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. This isn't meaning. Meaning is purpose in the abstract sense. Without a God, there is no meaning. There's what makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but even Edison and A.G. Bell are still quite meaningless to the universe. Sorry guys.

Then I put it to you John, that you are the one doomed to a life of complete and utter dissatisfaction. You can never have an effect on the universe, and you will not ever be happy in your decades of mortal existence. Whereas many people (athiests and theists alike, find meaning in the simple things - taking care of children, upholding the law, designing living abodes etc).

I also put it to you that you are likely correct. We are probably born with no purpose. This is what some people are trying to tell you. Purpose is self made. You might ascribe a purpose to something you build, but that does not automatically mean that humans are built with a specific purpose, you are applying human thinking to a cosmic anomaly (our existence). You are executing the same fallacy you accuse others of.

Hey, snakelord. There is no meaning, if there is no God. Life is meaningless. Life only persists. It doesn't have to do with my personal feelings. What is the purpose of life besides to do what it does? You are the one who feels there is more to it than that - not me.

Celpha. No. That was a response to Spidergoat. I agreed with your post.

If there is a God, I have no idea why he created us. I imagine you wouldn't know that one until the after life.

So you are happy because you have something to look forward to. We can be happy for the same reason, but the thing doesn't have to be some uncertain meeting with a devine being, it can be something you actually get to live through.

Hey, snakelord. There is no meaning, if there is no God

You can persist in saying that until the cows come home, it changes nothing.


It doesn't have to do with my personal feelings. What is the purpose of life besides to do what it does?

The problem is that you refuse to accept "purpose of life" unless the answer happens to have the word 'god' in it - and as such I wonder why you even bother asking. You've decided the answer to the question for everyone before even asking it.

I would assert that the 'purpose of life' is genetic survival and reproduction. You refuse to accept that as meaningful for some unknown reason and refuse to accept it as a purpose because it omits the word 'god'.

For life to have a purpose or meaning does not mean it has to be created or eternal. You cannot accept this and so the answer will never be good enough for you.


You are the one who feels there is more to it than that - not me.

Incorrect. You are the one who feels that the way it is is insufficient somehow. Until you figure out why you deem it insufficient I can't help you.

I have asked questions that have been ignored and tried to enquire as to why life only has meaning and purpose if a god exists. Will you answer it?

How does life without God have any meaning? O.K., so you can find happiness and pleasure. But that's not meaning. You're existence is pointless. The rest of the universe doesn't care if you live or die.
*************
M*W: You get out of life what you put into it. If you put no meaning into your life and the universe, you'll not reap much meaning or happiness. I find that the meaningful things in my life were just as meaningful if not more meaningful after I became an atheist. My family has always been my main source of joy and then my career. Essentially, my family was my career and my career was my hobby. There are no holes in my life, but then again, I filled them all with meaning as I understood it. The only thing that did change was my concept of religion. It became meaningless to me, and after several years of studying my religion, I could no longer justify it as being a meaningful aspect of my life. Atheism was to follow. It's a gradual process. It's a slow awakening. The most important things in my life bring me joy. I am not empty and forlorn. I live abundantly, but I have given abundantly to my life and those in it. It's a misconception that atheists are empty, bitter and hateful.

I know Christians and atheists, and other things in between, and we all have our good times and bad. I only know a few very religious people that seem permanently happy, but they also seem deranged.

for the people who keep asking how can life have meaning without god your never going to get an answer you will accept or understand until you accept that an atheist's view of the world is valid

And if so, why? You deny life after death.
An atheist isnt neccessarily a strict materialist.

For example, the Buddhists dont have any myths of creation or a supreme deity, and yet they have an ancient spiritual tradition as rich as any god-based religion.

Benny Hinn? :roflmao:

Do you know him? Have you ever met him? Ever been to one of his crusades? Ever see a miracle? Well, I have. Plenty of miracles. Go ahead and laugh. We'll see who gets the last laugh. ;)

I have seen Hinn on TV, he's hilarious! A better snake oil salesman there has never been...

Soul is mind, will, and emotion. How can soul not exist?

We are spirits. We live in bodies. We have souls.

Spirits are eternal. I don't understand how someone can be satisfied knowing theirs will burn in hell when they were given the choice of Heaven. :confused:
CRAP !!
souls are invention of primitive mens minds,who had no clue what wind/air/ breath is, so they thought its this soul which leaves the body after death b/c dead people dont breathe,today we know better
here
www.atheists.org/Atheism/mind.html

And if so, why?
define happy!


You deny life after death.
not necesarily,maybe we get reincarnated :p
however until you can show me any living thing that doesnt die,your afterlife shall remain just a wishfull thinking ...a fantasy


Your life is meaningless drivel.
speak for yourself bucko,my life is the most important thing simply b/c I know death is the end.
thats why life is so meaningfull!! capice?


You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak.
on the contrary my life is pretty good,b/c I MADE it that way,and still havent killed anyone yet,go figure


How do you keep from offing yourselves?
ah the bitterness of a confused religionist,how sad,:bawl:
why dont YOU, OFF yourself, after all your haven is waiting

And if so, why? You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel. You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?Atheists are happy only when Jesus gets ceremonially hammered into the cross, every easter.

How do you explain to a retard that the position that an idea is 'true' based on emotion and your existential preferences is fraught with conflicts of interests and irrational stupidity?

You can't.
He wouldn't have opened his mouth to expel such malodorous mental farts in the first place if he had any capacity to reason.
So, you are left with the only other options of ignoring him or mocking him.

Atheists are happy only when Jesus gets ceremonially hammered into the cross, every easter.

How do you explain to a retard that the position that an idea is 'true' based on emotion and your existential preferences is fraught with conflicts of interests and irrational stupidity?

You can't.
He wouldn't have opened his mouth to expel such malodorous mental farts in the first place if he had any capacity to reason.
So, you are left with the only other options of ignoring him or mocking him.

ofcourse you make good points you always do because your a witty guy (not being sarcastic).

but to only be open to a mere two options? thats just limiting yourself, wich is never a good thing, there is always a moderate to the two extreams.

or usualy a multitude of moderates,

peace.

And if so, why?


Because I determine the meaning to my life, not some entity akin to the Tooth Fairy.



You deny life after death.

Not necessarily, and what's more, wholly irrelevant.



Your life is meaningless drivel.

On the contrary, mine has meaning where yours does not (in fact, cannot).



You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival.

Persons, not souls. And to a great extent, the scope of a living goes far beyond mere survival.



This outlook is pretty bleak.

If you describe self-realization as bleak, then you're correct.



How do you keep from offing yourselves?


Quite simply, there's so much to do.

John J. Bannan:


You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel. You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?

In my opinion, it is pretty bleak if you think your current life is meaningless, and the only reason you can tolerate this life is that you expect to get a better life after you're dead.

It seems to me that a person who wants to die so he can see God is far more likely to "off" himself than an atheist who believes he only gets one life.


Most rational people would not want their soul to burn in hell. Consequently, they must be denying they have a soul. As there is no physical evidence for the existence of a soul, telling people who only believe what they see that they have a soul is a tough sell.

Why believe in something for which there is no physical evidence?

Why do you believe there is a soul, John?


So you're looking at yourself as "childhood, a rainbow, a good cup of coffee or a great meal, vacations"? Life's a vacation - enjoy it while it lasts. Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die! Live for the now, forget the future! This sort of intoxicating talk must be hiding a deep depressing denial of sorts.

What about "Life is just a passing phase, of no consequence. Your life only matters because of what will happen after you die, which is when the real eternity starts. Better be good, or you'll go to hell!"

Now that sounds like a deeply depressing denial.


Ah, you're assuming life in the great beyond is the same as it is on Earth. Life after death would almost have to be more meaningful, wouldn't it?

Why?


What can you accomplish in Heaven as if you were on Earth? Being in union with God's "mind" will leave you without need of accomplishment. If there is no God, then life is meaningless. We are just a geological formation being pushed around by the sun's energy. What's the meaning in that?

Is your life meaningful only because there is a God? Tell me, how does God give your life meaning, where otherwise there would be none?


How does life without God have any meaning? O.K., so you can find happiness and pleasure. But that's not meaning. You're existence is pointless. The rest of the universe doesn't care if you live or die.

Neither does God, it seems. Good people die every day.


The fact that I am alive has no significance to the universe and therefore no meaning. Whether life has significance to me does not create meaning.

Why not?


Living a life with God would have to be meaningful.

So, meaning only comes after death? What prevents you from killing yourself now, then?

Why is everyone so hung up about meaning?
In life there is happiness and sadness. One is needed to measure the other.
Life is a bitch and then you die or life is a horn of plenty and then you die or more likely life is a mixture of experiences and emotions.
I cannot understand this suspension of living life in the hope that there might be something better later on.

And if so, why? You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel. You are one of six billion other souls - all fighting for survival. This outlook is pretty bleak. How do you keep from offing yourselves?


two types of happy people

SB 3.7.17: Both the lowest of fools and he who is transcendental to all intelligence enjoy happiness, whereas persons between them suffer the material pangs.

and there are three types of happiness

BG 18.37: That which in the beginning may be just like poison but at the end is just like nectar and which awakens one to self-realization is said to be happiness in the mode of goodness.

BG 18.38: That happiness which is derived from contact of the senses with their objects and which appears like nectar at first but poison at the end is said to be of the nature of passion.

BG 18.39: And that happiness which is blind to self-realization, which is delusion from beginning to end and which arises from sleep, laziness and illusion is said to be of the nature of ignorance.

take your pick
;)

carry on as you were everyone

The resident retard, lightgigantic, is still under the illusion that if you don`t beleive in God - even if he cannot provide a rational argument in His support other than feel-good emotionalism and pseudo-intellectual evasive spins about the `correct` epistemology - then you must be some kind of superficial materialist, living in misery.

Let`s see:
Option 1 - be happy by surrendering to a delusion which both flatters and sooths my fears or...

Option 2 - be happy by surrendering to hedonism and materialism...

I`ll pick Option 3 Alex:
Use the opportunity of cosnciousness to explore one`s own existence and face it with courage and honesty and with no preconcpetions and emotionalism.

Then, if you so desire, use your percpetions to dop with them as you like.

Better to soothe ones' fears with God than with alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, shrinks etc... Plus when you REALLY have God (the Holy Spirit) living inside you, you have no fear...

I can't physically prove God exists just like I can't prove love exists. All I can do is believe. :)

Better to soothe ones' fears with God than with alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, shrinks etc...Better to do neither, isn't it?
Better just to face your fears and accept them until they become part of who you are, and until you are comfortable with them as part of you?

And in what way is God not just your own variety of shrink?
You talk to him - you ask him for help and guidance - you hope he has the answers - and you know he won't judge you. You probably pay him as well, through the collections during services.

And why do you think shrinks are bad?
Have you had a bad experience with them?

No. I accept no fear. Never. It is not who I am or who I am in Him. Fear and worry are tools of the devil. Not of my Father.

God is my "shrink". The best one I could possibly hope for. And He's free. ;)
I think secular shrinks are bad because they teach to "accept your fears", blame everything on your parents/childhood, etc..

It's time to grow up. Take some responsibility. Choose who you want to be. Not blame anyone or anything.

Choosing God is the best decision I ever made. :worship:

You're existence is pointless. The rest of the universe doesn't care if you live or die.

Exactly ! And... so what ?
You are just a scared little kid that cant handle reality.

Better to soothe ones' fears with God than with alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, shrinks etc... Plus when you REALLY have God (the Holy Spirit) living inside you, you have no fear...

I can't physically prove God exists just like I can't prove love exists. All I can do is believe. :)

Google this: Science of Love

...It's time to grow up. Take some responsibility. Choose who you want to be. Not blame anyone or anything.

Choosing God is the best decision I ever made. :worship:

So if things go well for you, its because of God in your life. If things go badly, its because of you? So God gets all the glory, but none of the responsibility?

Do you know him? Have you ever met him? Ever been to one of his crusades? Ever see a miracle? Well, I have. Plenty of miracles. Go ahead and laugh. We'll see who gets the last laugh. ;)

I can honestly say strictly "no" to all questions above. However, television is a powerful medium, and I must say what I have seen of Benny Hinn leaves a taste of bile in my throat. He is one of the worst bigots on the face of the earth, and continues to profit in the millions thru his duped fan base.

Sandy, can you honestly say that every magician in the world is truly gifted with supernatural powers? Or is the more logical thing sleight of hand and misdirection? Isn't it even plausible to you that Benny Hinn might be employing the same tactics?



Better to soothe ones' fears with God than with alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, shrinks etc... Plus when you REALLY have God (the Holy Spirit) living inside you, you have no fear...

I can't physically prove God exists just like I can't prove love exists. All I can do is believe. :)

Ah but you are incorrect Sandy. Because a high majority of humans have experienced love for themselves, love is evidence of itself (same for most, if not all emotions). You cannot say the same thing for any god ever conceived of.

Orleander- Yes. I have free will. Sometimes I make stupid choices. Sometimes I don't listen to Him or consult Him first about things. Sometimes I get caught up in everyday reality and forget to pray about everything. Sometimes I forget to thank Him for being my everything. It is then and only then that I get into trouble.

Orleander- Yes. I have free will. Sometimes I make stupid choices. Sometimes I don't listen to Him or consult Him first about things. Sometimes I get caught up in everyday reality and forget to pray about everything. Sometimes I forget to thank Him for being my everything. It is then and only then that I get into trouble.

OK. If you have free will, is it you that gets you into trouble or the devil?

God is my "shrink". The best one I could possibly hope for. And He's free. ;)
I think secular shrinks are bad because they teach to "accept your fears", blame everything on your parents/childhood, etc..

'Secular shrinks' teach people to face fears. The origin of the fear is related, but not the root of the matter. A good psychiatrist only discovers the origin of a 'fear' in order to help his patient understand where it comes from and to enable the patient to conquer said fear.

Maybe you should see one about your fear of being alone? Perhaps your fear of ethical responsibility? Or maybe fear of illegal immigrants? :p

Orleander- Ususally me. I make the stupid decisions. I can't blame the devil for everything. I have to learn to control/guard my thoughts. That's where the real battle is--in our minds. When we destroy our old system of thinking, our behavior changes.

"When you were a sinner, satan owned you. Because he owned you, he infiltrated your life with ways of thinking that were land mines to produce destruction along the course of your life. Once you get born again, he no longer has authority over you, but he still has a system of thinking that he has placed inside of your head through this world’s system. We need to break down that system of thinking so that it is no longer our way of thinking and, therefore, can no longer do damage....

That’s what the Word of God is for—to change our way of thinking. It’s to give us a new way of thinking so that we are no longer paving the way for satan to have access into our lives. Who people really are is what they’re thinking on the inside"...

http://www.joycemeyer.org/NR/rdonlyres/5D296F1F-9C57-4F9F-90A4-F84892CE8F27/0/FreefromReasoning.pdf

http://www.joycemeyer.org/NR/rdonlyres/D0B0EFF5-A9CF-41C1-9D95-6F74F2006264/0/WhereMindGoes.pdf

http://www.changinglives.org/?m=articles&a=get_article&id=5

And to Enterprise- I have no fear. Not of being alone. Not of anything. As far as being alone: I LOVE it. I prefer it. Plus, I am never really alone. God is always with me. He lives inside me in the form of the Holy Spirit (my counselor, friend, guidance...)

No. I accept no fear. Never. It is not who I am or who I am in Him. Fear and worry are tools of the devil. Not of my Father. So your god never told you to fear him?

Jeramiah 32:39-40
"One heart and one way I will give them, that they may fear me always, to their own good and that of their children after them.
I will make with them an eternal covenant, never to cease doing good to them; into their hearts I will put the fear of me, that they may never depart from me."

Do you not fear hell? Do you not fear the eternal damnation that a life of sin will bring you?
By accepting these fears within yourself you have learnt to live with them and, regardless of what you might think, they are part of you - anyone reading your responses on this forum knows that.


God is my "shrink". The best one I could possibly hope for. And He's free. ;) Other than requiring you to have fear of him?


I think secular shrinks are bad because they teach to "accept your fears", blame everything on your parents/childhood, etc.. There is no blame attached to fears - merely an understanding of them - their origins and how to assuage them.


It's time to grow up. Take some responsibility. Choose who you want to be. Not blame anyone or anything. Yet by your own logic you would blame God for who you are? Isn't it time for YOU to take some responsibility for thinking for yourself - to break the shackles of your indoctrination?


Choosing God is the best decision I ever made. :worship:Meh, if you're a happier person because of it - who are we to say otherwise.

"So your god never told you to fear him?"

My God teaches me to love Him. I don't fear Him. I am a born-again Christian. I got the new covenant, the New Testament, as my guide. :worship:

"Do you not fear hell? Do you not fear the eternal damnation that a life of sin will bring you?"

No. I know where I'm going when I die. And it's not hell.

"By accepting these fears within yourself you have learnt to live with them and, regardless of what you might think, they are part of you - anyone reading your responses on this forum knows that."

I accept no fear. It is a tool of the devil. I accept nothing of him.

"Other than requiring you to have fear of him?"

I have no fear of Him. Just love.

"There is no blame attached to fears - merely an understanding of them - their origins and how to assuage them."

I disagree. Fear is learned/taught/being scared. I am scared of nothing.

"Yet by your own logic you would blame God for who you are? Isn't it time for YOU to take some responsibility for thinking for yourself - to break the shackles of your indoctrination?"

I don't blame God for who I am. I thank Him for it. Thinking my way is nowhere near as satisfying/successful as thinking His way.

"Meh, if you're a happier person because of it - who are we to say otherwise."

Thank you. :)

http://www.joycemeyer.org/NR/rdonlyres/5D296F1F-9C57-4F9F-90A4-F84892CE8F27/0/FreefromReasoning.pdf

Fear is not "taught". It is the 'fight or flight' evolutionary response to danger Sandy. I'm pretty sure you would not be foolhardy enough to stand in the way of an out of control car. Do you think that it is anything but fear (motive: self preservation, danger: 1 ton metal block on wheels) that makes you jump (flight response) out of its way?

This is getting ridiculous. Common sense tells you to get out of the way of the car. I'm done with this, and most other frivolous discussions here...:rolleyes:

No Sandy, fear does. If you relied on common sense for the extra speed necessary, you'd be dead.

Fear and worry are tools of the devil
nonsense,...fear is an instinct needed for survival,
you cant claim to have no fear walking on a ledge of a building 100 stories high for example,not unless youre crazy.
everyone fears something

Better to do neither, isn't it?
Better just to face your fears and accept them until they become part of who you are, and until you are comfortable with them as part of you?


unfortunately, the material world is the very medium of fear, since any number of a variety of mishaps, culminating in death, can happen to any number of living entities at any moment.

While there are many contingency plans one can abide by to avoid fearful situations (not necessarily just intoxication, although it is a somewhat popular one in contemporary western culture), it stands that theism is the best

BG 2.4 In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.

mainly beacuse the states of both fear and fearfulness are contingent on god

BG10.4-5 Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, control of the senses, control of the mind, happiness and distress, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy—all these various qualities of living beings are created by Me alone.

unfortunately, the material world is the very medium of fear, since any number of a variety of mishaps, culminating in death, can happen to any number of living entities at any moment.And there was me thinking that it was usually things like ghosts! :D


While there are many contingency plans one can abide by to avoid fearful situations (not necessarily just intoxication, although it is a somewhat popular one in contemporary western culture), it stands that theism is the bestThree issues with this...
1. Intoxication is NOT a popular "contingency plan" to avoid fear, regardless of what you might think. Intoxication is popular because it actually breaks down inhibitions.
I have never known anyone to drink to combat fear! Have you?
Depression - yes.
Fear? No.

2. Theism is best? Confidence statement LG. Where's the proof/evidence? How many people do you know who have turned to theism to combat their fear of death?
Unfortunately most people are indoctrinated into theism from birth so you can not separate out their theistic beliefs to counter their fear of death versus other reasons. Your only viable source of evidence would be those who have turned to theism to counter their fear of death.

3. I do hope you're not suggesting that being a reasonable aid to quelling fears means that the tenets of the theistic beliefs are thus necessarily true? Are you?

You're assuming I'm afraid of death. I'm not. What's the worst that could happen? I die and go to Heaven sooner? :D :worship:

You're assuming I'm afraid of death. I'm not. What's the worst that could happen? I die and go to Heaven sooner? :D :worship:

Fear of illegal immigration turning the U.S. into a third world country perhaps?

That's not fear. That's righteous indignation. ;)

That's not fear. That's righteous indignation. ;)


I think that, perhaps, you might be ignoring these verses, Sandy.

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

Romans 11:19-21
19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

Philippians 2:12
…continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Sarkus
“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
unfortunately, the material world is the very medium of fear, since any number of a variety of mishaps, culminating in death, can happen to any number of living entities at any moment.
”
And there was me thinking that it was usually things like ghosts!
fear of ghosts probably doesn't rank to high on most people's lists of anxiety

“”

While there are many contingency plans one can abide by to avoid fearful situations (not necessarily just intoxication, although it is a somewhat popular one in contemporary western culture), it stands that theism is the best

Three issues with this...
1. Intoxication is NOT a popular "contingency plan" to avoid fear, regardless of what you might think. Intoxication is popular because it actually breaks down inhibitions.
an inhibition is a type of anxiety disorder?



I have never known anyone to drink to combat fear! Have you?
Depression - yes.
Fear? No.
I am not sure what use you have applied to the word fear - I am meaning it in the sense of anticipation of something dreadful


2. Theism is best? Confidence statement LG. Where's the proof/evidence?
evidence of god?
Haven't we addressed that in several threads already?
(hint - "normative descriptions")


How many people do you know who have turned to theism to combat their fear of death?
quite a few


Unfortunately most people are indoctrinated into theism from birth so you can not separate out their theistic beliefs to counter their fear of death versus other reasons. Your only viable source of evidence would be those who have turned to theism to counter their fear of death.
there are many reasons why persons take to theism (at least in the beginning stages)

BG 7.16: O best among the Bhāratas, four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me — the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute.

fear is merely a sub-category of one of them


3. I do hope you're not suggesting that being a reasonable aid to quelling fears means that the tenets of the theistic beliefs are thus necessarily true? Are you?
evidence of god is a separate issue - since you are a die hard atheist, i guess you have to make the decision whether you want to discuss things that are immediately verifiable to your self (or things that are immediately verifiable by persons you hold as dear) or whether you want to discuss things as ideas (if you choose the former the scope for discussion will be quite limited)

And if so, why? You deny life after death. Your life is meaningless drivel.
Far from it. The fact that we only have one shot at living makes it just that much more important that we do the right things in life.


How do you keep from offing yourselves?
Simple humanism. The ideal that all humans are inherently worthy and deserve dignity and respect. Part of that respect is, well, not killing them or one's self.