On the sci-fi geek scale of 1-10, I'd say I'm about a 6.5 on the Star Trek fan meter. I've watched most of the shows, except DS9 (I never cared for it). I've seen all the movies. I've never read any of the Trek books.

The Borg survive by perpetually assimilating other species, has it ever been theorized, in any of the Trek shows or books, what the Borg were like in their original form (prior to assimilating anyone/anything)?

Peace.

I'm sure that will probably pop up as some script effort in the newer startrek saga's. (If of course anyone watches them)

I thought they were supposed to have been human-ish or something originally.

Even more important: If they have been assimilating the knowledge of thousands of species, why do they have NO tactical skills whatsoever?! They let strangers wander about in their ships UNTIL those strangers trigger a nuke in there? NO friggin way.

If the Borg can travel in time, then why not just send a fleet of cubes back to when the galaxy was just developing, then they could start populating un-inhabited planets with Borg outposts. Earth could have been assimilated when it was only populated by caveman for goodness sake. And if they opened the time warp within their own space, then there wont be any enemy ships to slip through and chase them (Like the Enterprise did in First Contact). Either that, or send ten Borg cubes to assimilate Earth all at once. They whipped up hundreds of cubes when 8472 were attacking, why not do a mass tank rush against earth. Starfleet wouldnt have a chance

I think the only real problem is crappy writers.

Hey, guys, as the scifi guru of sciforums, I just have to say that star trek is 'just a show.'

Pollux...


Take that back!!

:D

Nevah!

Except a few well educated writers such as Harlan Elison, Fred Hoyle, Calrke, Asimov, - most of them are romance writers that write for Star Trek to earn money. That is why I like Babylon5 which did try to close the loose ends. Andromeda is trying to do the same because of Kevin Sorbo (who does not like too many inconsistencies)

The Borg itself is not Humanoid nor is it an actual life form itself. It was origainally a script or program if you will written by an ancient race who's name has been forgotten through the eons. It is suspected it was origainally used to diagnose the ills, improve upon techniques known to treat the illnesses and aid the healers of this anciant race. Later as this race improved the Borg program and irradicated most known illnesses of that race they modified the program to copy the DNA or the basic building blocks of all known organic species and develop DNA maps that would allow their healers to actually splice the alien DNA with thiers and thus improving themselves, due to the fact illnesses in this race became non existant with time and the program was combined with there nano technology the overall instruction of the Borg program evolved into improving any organic lifeform it encountered and take what parts from them it deducted would improve itself. After several hundred centries it found no DNA suitible or as perfect as its own so it no longer took building blocks from other species only gave the gift of its own conglomorated DNA and changed the hosts as it saw fit. So in essence the Borg is any creature infected with this parasite nano technology that invaded it and changed its Dna. At least according to Star Fleet Record Log Star date 123.456.789 entiteled "I Made This All Up".

Was it me, or did the Borg seem less threatening in Voyager? I remember in The Next Generation they made these occasional appearances, but could be absolutley devastating, while in Voyager, they were frequently appearing, yet somehow they didnt come across as being as powerful as they used to be. I think there was an episode of Voyager called 'Dark Frontier', I cant remember much of it, but I'm sure there was one part where they managed to outwit/outfight/outfly the Borg in the Delta Flyer. Is it me or did the Borg become slack in Voyager?

Dracula's Guest,
I think that the borg were supposed to be just less of an unknown to the Voyager crew than they had been to say the crew of 1701d before Locutus.

Pollux
For a Guru that's a strange position to take. Maybe you need to meditate?

:D :D

Here is something of interest for all of you, it's about the borg i thought that i would share it, it might help you understand what the borg are all about HERE IT IS (http://www.nobeliefs.com/heaven.htm) Kinda long but really worth it if you consider what the guy is trying to say, maybe heaven is a borg cube.

P.S. Metatron that is the best description of where the borg might have came from that i have ever heard.

Very interesting , especially...

"And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."

-Rev. 21:15-16

(Could be a floating city passed by our solar system during John's time)

And...

The Old Testament describes the heavenly creatures as angels, cherubim (cherub), and seraphim. Note that nowhere in the Bible does it describe angels with wings. The idea of winged angels came from the imagination of Baroque painters and sculptors, not from the Bible. Only the cherubim and seraphim have wings. And nowhere in the Bible does it classify cherubim & seraphim as angels (the classification of angels came from imaginative priests).

But what fearsome creatures these are! Seraphim [Hebrew for "burning ones"] are humanoid in form with six wings (they are the ones who sing the Holy-Holy chants). Cherubim are not cupid-like chubby babies but are rather depicted by ancient Mesopotamian religions as creatures of evil who guard buildings. The Bible describes them with four wings, four faces, and mixed human and animal characteristics. Angels are human in form (never with wings or multiple heads). They are represented as messengers of god, servants and warriors, and sometimes evil beings (fallen angels like Satan and demons). A nice bunch of eternal bunk mates, eh?

Robot guardians or their version of genetically modified dogs?

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee

P.S. Metatron that is the best description of where the borg might have came from that i have ever heard.

Thank you!

Here it is, gang. I have done the additional research,
and it appears the Borg are, indeed, a divine creation.


"That they all may be one; as thou Father art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us..." -- Jesus (John 17:21)

http://www.xecu.net/goofyfish/__public/jesoborg.gif

"You will be assimilated...made ONE with the Borg...Freedom is irrelevant...Self Determination is irrelevant...You will comply...Resistance is Futile." -- The Borg.


Coincidence? I think not.

Peace.

Thats a great point goofyfish! And nice picture. The original site it came from is HERE. (http://www.nobeliefs.com)

I swiped my copy from a diffent site. Your link does not point directly to the page with the image; can you me get me closer? I'm just curious as to who copied whom.

Peace.

"I am Microsoft of Borg. Resistance izkx
GPF 0x5654 8820

Application RESIST.EXE has performed an
illegal operation and will be shut down."

hahahahaha. That's FUNNY.

Now why hasn't that girl called me back yet...

re. "(Could be a floating city passed by our solar system during John's time)"

I'm old ... NOT ancient!

Take care ;)

The link i gave you was to the main site, i dont know where the pic came from.

We are the Church.
Lower your IQ and prepare for Assimilation.
Logic is irrelevant. Science is Futile.

I like the premise :)

YOUR YOUNG CHILDREN MUST BE SENT TO OUR CHURCHES FOR IMMEDIATE SPANKINGS

ooooooh.

BTW welcome back, esp.

Thanx, pollux :) It's good to be back :D

I'm old ... NOT ancient!

Why is it an elderly gentleman, reputed to have used crutches to leave the arc, always says that? :D

Did you prehaps notice any square cubes floating around while leaving the ramp? We could use a good first hand account to dispell the myths.

Here's one for you about the Borg and those that walk the road of Startrek enlightment.

Where are the HACKERZ of the startrek Era, I'm not talking the Keyboard cowboys of our near future, but the hackers that through biological implants can start walking around in a Borgs head and asking him Freudian questions, Like : "Tell me about you mother?" and "These voices, do they often speak to you?".

Perhaps a little Borg Bombing, spoofing Borg Designations, and Spamming the Neural uplink to the main collective. Perhaps even filling the minds of the Borg with cheap PORN sites developed in the early 21st Century.

Not to forget to mention the occasional Borg worm, eating through each borg member to get them repeating "I'm a swizz cheese!". (Of course there are new versions of the worm, but I can't detail)

The Borg have assimilated thousands of species that all look human, aside from the mottled grey appearance. :shrug:

Now thats what I call thread neocromancy! :D

The Borg have assimilated thousands of species that all look human, aside from the mottled grey appearance. :shrug:


Oh...well...that is because CGI is very expensive. Also, bipeds with fingers are the most efficient form of life for developing gadgets and spaceships....

And there is a good evolutionary reason for having wrinkles on your forehead. Really. Humans don't know what they're missing.

Well they obviously tried to find other species to play the role of borg but they never found a reel tentacle fish like or wathever alien that had reel interest to star in the show. Oh well their a great and ever developing concept from the 1960's cyberman (doctor who),to the 1990 borg and even now the cylons from battlestar.
I somewhat like the their evolution

The new cylon females are sexy....too bad, we could not see a Vorlon female...

I wonder if the borg ever assimilated any animals. I imagine a borg bear would be pretty scary...

The new cylon females are sexy, we could not see a Vorlon female...
Their link to humanity is quit interesting. Their complete cyborgs yet they have certainly some humanity in them. Especialy the asian kenny lady she even brings the most inhumanity out of the people around her.
http://files.blog-city.com/files/aa/52170/p/f/vorlon.jpg
Who's waiting for a female version of that?

One item JMS screwed up is that if the Vorlons are energy beings then they do not need an environmental suit with 6 tubes sticking out.

The Borg survive by perpetually assimilating other species, has it ever been theorized, in any of the Trek shows or books, what the Borg were like in their original form (prior to assimilating anyone/anything)?

I'm not sure it has been. But I imagine it all started with some race that decided that to become a hive of cybernetic life forms was the way to go, and that it was a good idea to assimilate other cultures.


Even more important: If they have been assimilating the knowledge of thousands of species, why do they have NO tactical skills whatsoever?! They let strangers wander about in their ships UNTIL those strangers trigger a nuke in there?

To give them any better tactical skills would be too convenient for the Borg. They don't put anything in the script that makes things too convenient, unless it's needed to carry on the plot. ;)


Is it me or did the Borg become slack in Voyager?

Well Voyager had to get home. It was basically a law of physics in the Star Trek universe that the Borg not defeat Voyager. :p


maybe heaven is a borg cube.

Christianity did assimilate pagan rituals, and has a long history of assimilating cultures. First some Jews, then Romans, then the Roman emperor, then the Germanic tribes...

You will be assimilated. Your distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.


The Borg have assimilated thousands of species that all look human, aside from the mottled grey appearance.:

Haha. Yeah, nearly all aliens are humanoid because of the budget restrictions. It's kinda lame, but oh well.

Oh, and I agree with Nickelodeon: Now that what I call thread necromancy! :D


Also, bipeds with fingers are the most efficient form of life for developing gadgets and spaceships....

I do believe it's a very efficient body structure, but I doubt it's the most efficient.

I do believe it's a very efficient body structure, but I doubt it's the most efficient.

Perhaps I should have qualified that statement with items like...that we know of, in this time and region of space etc...then, we all would be posting statements like legal documents....:D

Perhaps I should have qualified that statement with items like...that we know of, in this time and region of space etc...then, we all would be posting statements like legal documents....:D

Yeah yeah. I just like pointing out technicalities and stuff. :p

If the Borg can travel in time, then why not just send a fleet of cubes back to when the galaxy was just developing, then they could start populating un-inhabited planets with Borg outposts. Earth could have been assimilated when it was only populated by caveman for goodness sake. And if they opened the time warp within their own space, then there wont be any enemy ships to slip through and chase them (Like the Enterprise did in First Contact). Either that, or send ten Borg cubes to assimilate Earth all at once. They whipped up hundreds of cubes when 8472 were attacking, why not do a mass tank rush against earth. Starfleet wouldnt have a chance

Simple: they've already tried it with one Cube, and like machines will do, they assume that it would be a wasted effort to attempt a failed mission more than once. Remember, all that the Borg collective of Picard's present would know is that the timestream remained consistent and the Sphere was never heard from again. The Collective could not know if the Sphere survived the trip.

Side note: the Borg must realise the effects of temporal incursions better than most, having assimilated more than one race with time travel capabilities.

"Mass tank" rush would mean the end of Trek, so this will never be written. Plausible explanations the Borg may not attempt that strategy could include Admiral Janeway's Borg busting tech brought back in time, Seven's defection, Picard's detailed 'recollection' of Locutus' knowledge, the destruction of the transwarp hub by Voyager, or maybe even Q holding them back from the alpha/beta/gamma quadrants for some sort of galactic order or reason.




***possible spoiler follows***

With regards to the original question, Shatner's "The Return" novel brought a little of the Borg into view, with V'Ger actually having been the result of early Borg ... interference. In the novel the Borg recognize Spock as already having been assimilated since he mind melded with V'Ger.

I'm going to give you all a very, very, very useful insight into the Borg. From what I recall during their first encounter with the Enterprise Q told Picard exactly who they were and what they were. He mentioned that somewhere in the past a man had developed the Borg, but instead of being the thing he was trying to use for bettering life they ended up consuming it. So it was some weird scientist on another world that did this all, and when he died they just kept expanding..

Here's the episode he talks about what they are in:

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68390.html

Here's a better story into it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_Who%3F_(TNG_episode)

Watch that episode and you'll hear more about the Borg than in other episodes.

Perhaps the Borgs are here checking us out...setting up one thinking drones called Al-Quida.....

The universe is so big, everything conecivable is possible and could be happening now....think of the possibilities....:d

I don't recall Q giving any information on the origins of the Borg in that episode. Neither did I read anything as such in the links.

I'll try to have a look see...

He never did, Q said nothing about the origins of the Borg.

Thought so.

Side note: Gene De Weese wrote an interesting enough book where Scotty rescued Kirk from the Generations spatial anomaly ribbon and the whole Federation immediately turned Borg.

You are wrong, Q does say the Borg were made by a single man, that he was trying to better their species but it ended up a problem... just watch it.

OK I did, and there is nothing about the origin of the Borg. You will be assimilated.

I have to concur with Nick...while I haven't reviewed the episode yet, I don't recall any such single creator origin...and neither does Memory Alpha's website.

About as uncanon as you can get, the game Legacy pretty much blames the creation of the Borg on us. The Voyager probe that became V'Ger was responsible, but like I said, uncanon as hell.

Yes, I read about that. However, this has to be wrong (non-canon); I believe the Borg are known to Guinan's race long before humans began exploring the Trek galaxy.

look at Robert Anderson Website...
It doesn't show the creation of the borg but it does break done the numbers and establish some startling conclusion about how much the Federation has assisted the Borg in expansion and adapting.

look at Robert Anderson Website...
It doesn't show the creation of the borg but it does break done the numbers and establish some startling conclusion about how much the Federation has assisted the Borg in expansion and adapting.

Link? I'm not getting any Trek sites with that name on the first page of a Google search, and I don't have the patience to look.

HOWEVER...

Shatner's V'Ger theory opened the doors for such a link between the Feds and the Borg. The Borg knowing a race existing as far as the Alpha quadrant would probably motivate a faster expansion. However, I dunno about the other stuff...might make a good fanfic...it didn't score too well in the gaming arena :(

Why are borg even considered dangerous? They seem about as clever, quick and dangerous as zombie. You'd think that the Federation would have developed protocol for engaging zombies, but I guess not.

Why are borg even considered dangerous? They seem about as clever, quick and dangerous as zombie. You'd think that the Federation would have developed protocol for engaging zombies, but I guess not.

Because, as unimaginative as the drones are, they are plentiful and considered expendable. Add this to the fact that they pilot juggernaut cubeships with powerful adaptive weapons, and clearly possess knowledge of assimilated species far more plentiful that the Federation science body...they're quite the foe. Worse again, the Borg central mind (hence all of the drones + the Queens) believe that it's actually the hero of the story, and they think the other races are all nuts to resist.

It is lucky that their caveat exists - lack of individuality. This lends to their zombie like nature of reaction rather than proaction, imitation rather than innovation. This sometimes allows the "less powerful" races those key seconds to pull of a miracle a la Enterprise.