George Galloway, the cigar chomping anti-war independent MP, has been banned from entering Canada, as he is felt to be a threat to security.

Reason given is his "Support for Hamas".
Not a bad reason, except that he doesn't support Hamas, and has continually said so.

He was however a friend of Yasser Arafat,before his death, and still an admirer, so you might call him a supporter of Fatah.
His true position is probably more complex, but he certainly sees the failure of negotiation with Arafat as a missed opportunity.

I suppose all them Arab organisations and their funny foreign names are the same to Canadian politicians.
Galloway will love this. He'll verbally rip them to shreds.

wrong move, probably influenced by US secret service. After All Canada is tied to US political agenda.

A Canadian government spokesman said that the decision would not be overturned for a man regarded as an "infandous street-corner Cromwell". The description of the Respect MP may have led him to his dictionary the definition of infandous is "too odious to be expressed or mentioned". Galloway said the comparison to Cromwell was not so offensive as he was "the champion of parliamentary supremacy and the executor of supporters of autocratic and parliamentary power".



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/21/george-galloway-canada


1st point to George I think.

Galloway is probably the last of a breed of eccentric British politicians who owed nothing to anyone, called it as they saw it, niggled and needled at the establishment, and generally offered a spectacle that makes Big Brother look like a concert party for boiled eggs.

His contemptuous treatment of the US House Committe that questioned him on his relatiohship with Saddam was brilliant.

We need people like him to highlight the profound blandness of the regular politician.

He was also banned by Egypt. I'm frankly surprised at the Canadians.

“I am here to glorify the Lebanese resistance, Hezbollah. I am here to glorify the leader, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah.” — George Galloway

“My visit has more than one reason. The first one is to walk a step toward lifting the siege on the Gaza Strip.

The second is to tell the whole free world that they can do anything real to you.

The third and the main one is to stand beside the legal Palestinian prime minister, [Hamas leader] Ismail Haniya. The entire world knows that he was elected, apparently, democratically. I have offered him corporeal and financial support.” — George Galloway

“Harper’s Conservatives are wrong to bar MP George Galloway,” said New Democrat Immigration Critic Olivia Chow. “The Minister of Immigration is becoming the ‘Minister of Censorship’. This bunker mentality indicates a government afraid of hearing contradictory points of view.”

George Galloway is the only Western politician respected in the Muslim world. He is also the only one who isn't a complete slave to Israel. Coincidence, I think not. For some people that's reason enough to ban him and ridicule him.

An honest politician is a social paradox. They don't know of any other way to deal with him than censor him and restrict his movement.

For some people that's reason enough to ban him and ridicule him.

"Galloway has a history of being a supporter of organizations such as Hezbollah, Hamas and has spoken warmly about Saddam Hussein.

The department of Public Safety lists Hezbollah and Hamas as banned terrorist groups in Canada."

http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2009/03/george-galloway-wont-be-coming-to-canada/

You're avoiding giving an opinion on his ban. I wonder why.

As I understand, the Americans and Canadians were also warm to Saddam at one point in time, especially when he was killing Iranians. George Galloway himself stated he was completely against Saddam Hussein but he opposed the restriction of aid to Iraq, he said this in Parliament when they asked him about his supposed links to Saddam. The video of this is still available online. I agree with him 100%, as do all the people of the Middle East and Muslim World that there is no excuse for denying water, food, and medicine to Iraqi civilians because Saddam is a dictator. The supposed goal was to force impoverished people to rebel against him, even though America provided him with most of his arms when they supported him against Iran.

Furthermore, Galloway has no links to Hamas nor Hezbollah, except in giving them aid. If he financed their arms deals, I think we would have known by now. What we really should be asking is why are freedom of speech so foreign to Western societies and atheists. The Zionists themselves have laid siege on an impoverished native people for nearly 60 years, yet there are no cries against them. Some forms of oppression are desirable. Capitalists and atheists will always support Israel and colonization of foreign countries. When you don't believe in God, there is no more morality left to withhold you from persecuting fellow human beings.

Why be surprised that we have collective punishment as sanctions and banning views as freedom of expression?

If you change the words, does it change the actions?

When you don't believe in God, there is no more morality left to withhold you from persecuting fellow human beings.That view can only come from a blinkered self-righteous prat. It is a direct insult to atheists and agnostics of good ethical and moral standing.

That view can only come from a blinkered self-righteous prat. It is a direct insult to atheists and agnostics of good ethical and moral standing.

As opposed to self-righteous atheists. Religions encourage people to respect others and strive for truth and justice. What possible alternative do atheists have? As a matter of fact, denying God and an after life leads one to strive, in which ever way they desire, without regards to how it effects others. Thus we see that Capitalism and Communism both originate from Atheism. The present materialistic lifestyle of the West and the moral void is related to this trend also.

Morality without God is fiction. Just as the silly notion that God doesn't exist is fiction. What possible encouragement can you give to Atheists to respect the rights of others, if they believe this is the only life they have? Moral decadence in the West is related to the disproportionately high ratio of Atheism, and its cousin secularism, in society.

Not only blinkered, but thick as well. Not to mention ignorant.

As I understand, the Americans and Canadians were also warm to Saddam at one point in time, especially when he was killing Iranians. George Galloway himself stated he was completely against Saddam Hussein but he opposed the restriction of aid to Iraq, he said this in Parliament when they asked him about his supposed links to Saddam. The video of this is still available online. I agree with him 100%, as do all the people of the Middle East and Muslim World that there is no excuse for denying water, food, and medicine to Iraqi civilians because Saddam is a dictator. The supposed goal was to force impoverished people to rebel against him, even though America provided him with most of his arms when they supported him against Iran.

Furthermore, Galloway has no links to Hamas nor Hezbollah, except in giving them aid. If he financed their arms deals, I think we would have known by now. What we really should be asking is why are freedom of speech so foreign to Western societies and atheists. The Zionists themselves have laid siege on an impoverished native people for nearly 60 years, yet there are no cries against them. Some forms of oppression are desirable. Capitalists and atheists will always support Israel and colonization of foreign countries. When you don't believe in God, there is no more morality left to withhold you from persecuting fellow human beings.

Canada had nothing to do with Saddam. We setup a field hospital in the 1st Iraq war, that's it. Canada does not play kingmaker.

Canada ban: Galloway on YouTube live on TV faces his accusers the Jewish Defence League (JDL) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAm7rfHKSyY)

Just a reminder that the JDL is classed as a terrorist group by the FBI. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Odeh)

As opposed to self-righteous atheists. Religions encourage people to respect others and strive for truth and justice. What possible alternative do atheists have? As a matter of fact, denying God and an after life leads one to strive, in which ever way they desire, without regards to how it effects others. Thus we see that Capitalism and Communism both originate from Atheism. The present materialistic lifestyle of the West and the moral void is related to this trend also.

Morality without God is fiction. Just as the silly notion that God doesn't exist is fiction. What possible encouragement can you give to Atheists to respect the rights of others, if they believe this is the only life they have? Moral decadence in the West is related to the disproportionately high ratio of Atheism, and its cousin secularism, in society.

Will somebody please put this retard out of his misery?

So where are the freedom of expression speeches we hear when this is done by Muslims?

Religions encourage people to respect others and strive for truth and justice.

That is only relevant if the truth and justice are defined by the religion. It may very well not be truth and justice to those who do not follow the religion.


What possible alternative do atheists have?


Far more than theists, as they must follow narrow rules from their holy books.


As a matter of fact, denying God and an after life leads one to strive, in which ever way they desire, without regards to how it effects others.

That can work both ways. Theists follow their gods without regard to how it affects others. History is steeped in theists committing heinous acts in the name of their gods.


Thus we see that Capitalism and Communism both originate from Atheism. The present materialistic lifestyle of the West and the moral void is related to this trend also.

So, we would ask what system you are currently under and if that system provided you with a computer and internet connection?


Morality without God is fiction. Just as the silly notion that God doesn't exist is fiction.

We would ask what morality you follow that would produce the ongoing fabrications you conjure?


What possible encouragement can you give to Atheists to respect the rights of others, if they believe this is the only life they have?

The freedom to cooperate with others so both parties can benefit as they see fit to agree.


Moral decadence in the West is related to the disproportionately high ratio of Atheism, and its cousin secularism, in society.

At least three out four people in the West are theists.

Seems like a disproportionately high ratio of bs on your part.

[QUOTE=Brian Foley;2202604]Canada ban: Galloway on YouTube live on TV faces his accusers the Jewish Defence League (JDL) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAm7rfHKSyY)

Nice Link. Informative.
I look forward to the Canadian election when these clowns are booted out.

Morality without God is fiction. Just as the silly notion that God doesn't exist is fiction. What possible encouragement can you give to Atheists to respect the rights of others, if they believe this is the only life they have?

More scary than an atheist who believes this life is the only one they will live, is a religious whackjob who thinks they have even a 1% understanding of universal morals. I would rather deduce my morals and ethics from observations of harmonious societies than from bearded tyrants who believe in things that make Scientologists look sane.

As for banning Galloway, which is the subject of this thread, as a Canadian I couldn't feel more proud of my country's decision. If Galloway were Canadian, we might have been more tolerant, but seeing as he's not, I have no desire to see this Stalinist shitkicker coming into my country to incite radicalist violence and conflict. I watched the interview posted above with Galloway, and I find it hilarious that he tries to pretend his direct support for the leaders of Hezbollah and Hamas doesn't contravene the laws of this land. If this issue were really about something as trivial as Afghanistan, we would have happily let him stop by, because the opposition NDP has already done plenty to undermine the mission as is.

If Galloway wants to submit a letter to one of our newspapers or post something on the internet for Canadians to read, more power to him and his free speech. But he will not and should not be welcomed to Canada any time in the near future, anymore than we'd be willing to host Nasrallah and Hanniyeh themselves.

How does Canada treat the JDL if it is listed as an extremist organisation in the US?

How does Canada treat the JDL if it is listed as an extremist organisation in the US?

I would imagine the same as we would treat any other Canadian citizens belonging to radical groups, just like the extremists in the Aryan Nation and company. Calgary just had a white power march (only a few dozen marchers compared to hundreds of protesters), that doesn't mean we're automatically going to expel the participants. If there were foreign citizens marching, they would have been booted out without hesitation. If Galloway were Canadian, we'd let him run around smearing his shit all over the walls, but he isn't Canadian, so he can go down his Guinness and piss himself in the comfort of his own home, no need to see him do that here.

Since 2001, freedom of expression and speech has diminished in the West and EU. Banning a British MP for having and expressing an opinion is ludicrous.

Since 2001, freedom of expression and speech has diminished in the West and EU. Banning a British MP for having and expressing an opinion is ludicrous.

Banning a foreign prick for handing cash to Hamas, among other things, is well within the limits of the law. We'll see if the courts hold it up, that's where it should be decided. If Galloway was coming to Canada to incite hatred against lesbians and gays, the opposition would have no second thoughts trying to keep him out, so it's funny that they'll welcome a rabble-rouser when it suits them.

What happened to that cheerful Mountie spirit?

I'm starting to adore George Galloway. In July, '07 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1483370&postcount=3), I finally found out what Mark Steel was up to when I came across one of his regular columns. Now the guy goes and gets banned from Canada. That alone is the stuff of legend.

It would be hilarious to see a diplomatic war. "Tragically Hip reunion tour cut short by visa row". Or, "Wife-beater Macca refused entry, will miss BC festival".

Okay, okay. On a more serious note, check this one:


No column in The Independent again this morning, as they weren't overly keen on the issue I was writing about, which is connected to the Viva Palestina convoy of trucks, that left London on February 14th to deliver food and medicine to Gaza ....

.... But in the tradition that anyone's permitted to carry out crazy wacky acts as long as it involves charity, the police decided to contribute to the event with a spectacular lark. Early in the morning, on the day the convoy left, they arrested nine people on the M65 under the Terrorism Act, who were on their way to Hyde Park, where the journey was due to begin. They blocked off an entire section of motorway, and grabbed their suspects with what was described in the local newspaper as "Dozens of police cars, vans, 4x4 vehicles and a helicopter."

The first I knew of this episode was from that afternoon's BBC news, on which it was the main item. Which is as you might expect, with nine suspected terrorists being pounced on by an operation that included a helicopter. To be fair, the BBC journalists didn't have to work too hard to find the story, as the police informed them in advance, and in addition, by a splendid coincidence, a press photographer happened to be on hand to record this successful swoop ....

.... The news reported that the terrorists were on the way to join the Viva Palestina convoy, which straight away seemed a little peculiar. Why would terrorists be on the way to join such an event? What would they be planning to attack? The convoy of trucks heading for Gaza? And what sort of Jihadist terrorist would say "I know how we'll move around without being noticed - we'll drive down the motorway in three vans with Palestinian flags flapping from the windows and a fucking great 'Viva Palestina' logo painted on the side."

The story was reported in almost every Sunday paper, with headlines such as “Galloway’s Aid Convoy linked to three terror suspects”, in the Mail on Sunday. And they had the effect of reducing contributions to the charity by eighty per cent, as the astute might have been able to predict. But the nine men, six from Blackburn and three from Burnley, were questioned, and the lorries, which were full of children's toys, were searched. And presumably the head of the anti-terrorist squad stood there throughout saying "Check that Bratz for semtex." By the next morning six were released without any charges, and a few days later the other three were released as well, the police appearing to be duly embarrassed to the extent they've paid the fares so the wrongly arrested men could catch up with the convoy, which by now was moving into Algeria.

(Steel (http://www.marksteelinfo.com/pt/blog/default.aspx?id=21&t=The-role-of-the-teddy-in-a-holy-jihad))

Man, people really don't like Galloway, do they? I mean, barred from entry to both Canada and Egypt?


Presumably then, all the broadcasters and newspapers who considered it a major story that the police had successfully pulled off this anti-terrorist operation will now make it an equally prominent story that the arrests had no validity whatsoever. Apart from anything else there must be many people who saw that story, and are wondering why they've heard nothing about it since, assuming a bunch of terrorists have escaped and are running round on the loose. They may even indulge in some investigative work, which will show that three of the arrested men are defence witnesses in a separate trial, which may, or may not be a coincidence.

(ibid)

Ah, Canada!
____________________

Notes:

Steel, Mark. "The role of the teddy in a holy jihad" The Official Mark Steel Blog. February 25, 2009. http://www.marksteelinfo.com/pt/blog/default.aspx?id=21&t=The-role-of-the-teddy-in-a-holy-jihad

More scary than an atheist who believes this life is the only one they will live, is a religious whackjob who thinks they have even a 1% understanding of universal morals. I would rather deduce my morals and ethics from observations of harmonious societies than from bearded tyrants who believe in things that make Scientologists look sane.


Atheism doesn't prevent one from morally judging how oppression and exploitation exacted by Zionists on the Palestinians is unjust. When support a war with a civilian casualty rate of 2 Israelis for every 1,000 Palestinians and still believe you are oppressed and under threat, this is not only a travesty of justice but reveals a deep moral void. The same goes for Q. Not to mention the whole support for the Zionist cause comes interpretation from Jewish religious scriptures. Atheists supporting occupation based on this, thus preferring to subjugate the Arab Christians and Muslims for the benefit of a Zionist regime. Though many Orthodox religious Jews actually hold that Israel should not be established until the arrival of the Messiah. I note here that Zionists are religious in the most marginal of the sense, using religion to justify their claims to power.

Many times the Atheists (as demonstrated in this forum) are more favorable to occupation and oppression for Muslims and other third world people than the Christian evangelicals. This is what is really scary. Secularism and materialistic dogma is to blame for the present exploitation of oppressed people throughout the world. Both of these are highly influenced, if not the cause, of Atlantic slave trade and colonialism.

So they gave this guy exactly what he wants...publicity.

Since 2001, freedom of expression and speech has diminished in the West and EU. Banning a British MP for having and expressing an opinion is ludicrous.

He's supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, so it's ok. If he were opining on Islam, there would be rioting in the streets.

What happened to that cheerful Mountie spirit?

I hope Georgie boy decides to make a run on our border like his supporters are threatening, then he'll get a whole fistful of Mountie spirit.


Many times the Atheists (as demonstrated in this forum) are more favorable to occupation and oppression for Muslims and other third world people than the Christian evangelicals.

Wrong, many atheists simply believe that the muslim radicals running around today are more dangerous than Israel's radicals. The casualty counts might be lopsided, but many of us think the casualty counts would be even higher and more lopsided if it were the muslims wielding advanced training and weapons. Most of us don't favour a jewish state insofar as it discriminates against racial and religious minorities, but we don't see the arabs' desire for an islamic state as an acceptable solution to replace it.


This is what is really scary. Secularism and materialistic dogma is to blame for the present exploitation of oppressed people throughout the world. Both of these are highly influenced, if not the cause, of Atlantic slave trade and colonialism.

Wrong again- religious causes were heavily involved in the effort to colonize the "pagan savages", as well as in the slave trade. Heck, even today black slavery is still practiced in many parts of the muslim world, so thanks for bringing up that example. Islam hasn't stopped muslims from gassing their own people, from continuously assaulting neighbouring countries in every direction over a thousand year span, and killing more Palestinians and Iraqis than even Israel and America have.

Atheists aren't perfect, but we use logic and reasoning in coming to our conclusions, rather than listening to some imbecile preacher who tells us how to live our lives based on their narrow interpretation of some book that has as much proof to back it up as Grimm's Fairy Tales. Yeah let's all go digging through works of fiction in order to find our morals, that will surely make the world a better place.

P.S. How did you let this conversation become one about atheist morals, what does that have to do with Galloway?

What ridiculous bs. Galloway is just about the only politician that has the guts to speak up. The only thing he said was that its the right of the Palestinians to elect whomever they want, even if that is Hamas. Banning him for that... meh

What ridiculous bs. Galloway is just about the only politician that has the guts to speak up. The only thing he said was that its the right of the Palestinians to elect whomever they want, even if that is Hamas. Banning him for that... meh

But, that isn't the only thing he said or did, and that isn't the only reason for his ban. Wake up.

George Galloway, the cigar chomping anti-war independent MP, has been banned from entering Canada, as he is felt to be a threat to security.

Reason given is his "Support for Hamas".
Not a bad reason, except that he doesn't support Hamas, and has continually said so.

He was however a friend of Yasser Arafat,before his death, and still an admirer, so you might call him a supporter of Fatah.
His true position is probably more complex, but he certainly sees the failure of negotiation with Arafat as a missed opportunity.

I suppose all them Arab organisations and their funny foreign names are the same to Canadian politicians.
Galloway will love this. He'll verbally rip them to shreds.

CANADA ?

The US I can understand but CANADA ?

Great. Racial bigotry is now a virus and all western nations have got it.

Great. Racial bigotry is now a virus and all western nations have got it.

Wtf does this have to do with race??? :bugeye:

About fucken time he was banned from SOMEwhere.

But, that isn't the only thing he said or did, and that isn't the only reason for his ban. Wake up.

Its all a mess. If he tries to get together food and materials for the Palestinians after Israel bombs them, he is seen as supporting Hamas. If he says that the Palestinians should be allowed to vote for whoever they want, he is seen as supporting Hamas. For years now they have been trying to shut him up by trying, unsuccessfully, to tie him to various "militant groups" and dictators financially. They can keep on trying. Hes never supported terrorist attacks and has always tried to promote dialogue as the way forward. Ya, a real danger. No ones been able to shut him up and this pathetic ban wont either

He went in to Gaza, physically embraced Hanniyeh, handed him hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, and then boasted to the world's media that he was giving financial support to Hamas. Open your eyes son, we've declared that a crime here, and if Galloway wants to flout our laws and enter our country, he can stand trial for his actions just like anyone else here would if they did the same. On the other hand if he does eventually manage to worm his way into the country, I hope Geert Wilders is next on the guest list, just for balance and all.

He went in to Gaza, physically embraced Hanniyeh, handed him hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, and then boasted to the world's media that he was giving financial support to Hamas.

That's what he is prepared to show the public. Just think of all the things he's done away from the public eye.

For years now they have been trying to shut him up by trying, unsuccessfully, to tie him to various "militant groups" and dictators financially. They can keep on trying. Hes never supported terrorist attacks and has always tried to promote dialogue as the way forward. Ya, a real danger. No ones been able to shut him up and this pathetic ban wont either

Then let me repost this for your perusal:

“I am here to glorify the Lebanese resistance, Hezbollah. I am here to glorify the leader, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah.” — George Galloway

“My visit has more than one reason. The first one is to walk a step toward lifting the siege on the Gaza Strip.

The second is to tell the whole free world that they can do anything real to you.

The third and the main one is to stand beside the legal Palestinian prime minister, [Hamas leader] Ismail Haniya. The entire world knows that he was elected, apparently, democratically. I have offered him corporeal and financial support.” — George Galloway

The fact that an elected official cannot take a convoy that consists of aid to a place that has just been bombed back to the stoneage with precision and intent and meet and hand over the aid, that has been voluntarily donated by people, to another elected government is beyond hypocrisy, especially considering the large amounts of financial aid given to various countries and organizations all over the world, including Israel. This highlights the problem with the treatment of the Palestinians by the Western world: they still consider Hamas to be nothing but a terrorist organization, even though it was elected in free and fair democratic elections and has shown willingess to accept the existence of Israel and even work towards peace. No, they are terrorists, keep bombing them. This is also the reason it is ok for the IDF to target civilians, since the people voted for Hamas, they must be terrorists or terrorist supporters themselves. Hell, various US and British commentators are far worse and they still have free reign. Who banned Rumsfeld after he went to Saddam, shook his hand and gave him weapons and the knowhow to build chemical weapons and WMD that Saddam was then urge to used against Iran and he later used against his own people? Ya, BS hypocrisy at its peak. Knowing Galloway, he will probably win in court and get this ridiculous ban overturned.

Then let me repost this for your perusal:

“I am here to glorify the Lebanese resistance, Hezbollah. I am here to glorify the leader, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah.” — George Galloway

“My visit has more than one reason. The first one is to walk a step toward lifting the siege on the Gaza Strip.

The second is to tell the whole free world that they can do anything real to you.

The third and the main one is to stand beside the legal Palestinian prime minister, [Hamas leader] Ismail Haniya. The entire world knows that he was elected, apparently, democratically. I have offered him corporeal and financial support.” — George Galloway

The financial aid was donated by various people. Just like the 5 billion donated by the Cairo conference iirc to the government and people of Gaza i.e. Hamas to rebuild. Seeing the destruction there, it is badly needed. Ofcourse, there is a neighbouring country that wont even allow concrete in :bugeye: Moreover, Hezbollah is supported by the vast majority of Lebanese, especially the ones that need protection against the Christian groups that try to kill them and the Israeli groups that keep bombing and kidnapping them.

Moreover, Hezbollah is supported by the vast majority of Lebanese, especially the ones that need protection against the Christian groups that try to kill them and the Israeli groups that keep bombing and kidnapping them.

Well, it's satisfying to know the typical biased view of this issue is still upheld.

Well, it's satisfying to know the typical biased view of this issue is still upheld.

???

Hezbollah gains controlling role in Lebanon government
The Shiite militia group fills key Cabinet posts and has veto power over major decisions. The prime minister hopes for a 'return to normal life.'

By Raed Rafei
July 12, 2008

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/12/world/fg-lebanon12

What biased view is that?

The fact that an elected official cannot take a convoy that consists of aid to a place that has just been bombed back to the stoneage with precision and intent and meet and hand over the aid, that has been voluntarily donated by people, to another elected government is beyond hypocrisy, especially considering the large amounts of financial aid given to various countries and organizations all over the world, including Israel. This highlights the problem with the treatment of the Palestinians by the Western world: they still consider Hamas to be nothing but a terrorist organization, even though it was elected in free and fair democratic elections and has shown willingess to accept the existence of Israel and even work towards peace. No, they are terrorists, keep bombing them. This is also the reason it is ok for the IDF to target civilians, since the people voted for Hamas, they must be terrorists or terrorist supporters themselves. Hell, various US and British commentators are far worse and they still have free reign. Who banned Rumsfeld after he went to Saddam, shook his hand and gave him weapons and the knowhow to build chemical weapons and WMD that Saddam was then urge to used against Iran and he later used against his own people? Ya, BS hypocrisy at its peak. Knowing Galloway, he will probably win in court and get this ridiculous ban overturned.

First it's denial, then justification once the former no longer works. We are trying to undermine a regime that terrorizes those who don't conform to its strict interpretation of islam, that sends women and children to the border with bombs strapped to their chests, that shoots rockets at civilian targets with the intent of making daily life impossible for hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens. And when the Israelis send in their inevitable response, Hanniyeh's forces merge themselves into the various communities to make sure Palestinian civilians bear the brunt of any fighting. Hanniyeh is involved in all of this, and elected or not, most Canadians find his actions disgraceful and appalling, and we have thus declared it a crime to support such a monster.

If it can be shown that Israeli leaders intentionally ordered troops to commit similar acts that go beyond all bounds of national self defense, it should be discussed in our elections and courts and policy can be set on that basis. 'Til then, hypocrites or not, we decide who sets foot in our country, and our government has decided we will not give a soapbox to this pugilist just so he can encourage others to follow his example and break our laws. We also have laws against inciting hatred and disturbing the social peace, and Galloway's wild-eyed accusations and slander against various members of our society (especially the jewish community) go far in violating those laws.

It's one thing to enter this country with the intention of carrying out an informed, civilized, academic discussion of research and issues our government would rather not discuss. That happens all the time and the government is powerless to do anything about it. It's another thing entirely for firebrands such as Galloway, Geert Wilders and the leadership of the KKK to come here and promote radical hatred and disrespect for the laws and constituents of our society. I don't care what government Galloway is serving in, we have laws he knowingly broke and more laws he wants to come and break, so unless he's bringing something useful like a one billion dollar cheque or a lucrative trade deal, we don't want him.

Occupation is not an "inevitable response". Resisting occupation is an inevitable response.

Occupation is not an "inevitable response". Resisting occupation is an inevitable response.

And if it's true that the Palestinians are merely resisting occupation, then targeting Israeli women and children is the only way they can resist? Arresting their own citizens in the middle of the night and summarily executing them, throwing them off buildings or shooting them in the kneecaps is the only way they can resist? Sorry, most Canadians don't buy that tripe. Let the Palestinians renounce violence and put down their arms first, then they can send Galloway once he's no longer the western spokesman for terror.

Strange things happen to people who are oppressed. They develop the values they imbibe from their abusers. Hamas are the children of the first intifada.

First it's denial, then justification once the former no longer works. We are trying to undermine a regime that terrorizes those who don't conform to its strict interpretation of islam,

Have you actually been to Gaza and seen how Hamas runs it? Or is this just another plucked-out-of-the-air insinuation about a government that just happens to be Muslim?


that sends women and children to the border with bombs strapped to their chests,

In response to Israel sending soldiers with tanks and state of the art weaponry. Action-->reaction


that shoots rockets at civilian targets with the intent of making daily life impossible for hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens.

They arent rockets and they cant be aimed. Its impossible to specifially target something with those flyswatters that could be shot out of the air if IDF wanted it.


And when the Israelis send in their inevitable response,

Israel killed Palestinians which provoked a reaction from Hamas, Unfortunately, the Western Media didnt focus on the Israeli killings but on Hamas' reaction to those killings.


Hanniyeh's forces merge themselves into the various communities to make sure Palestinian civilians bear the brunt of any fighting. Hanniyeh is involved in all of this, and elected or not, most Canadians find his actions disgraceful and appalling, and we have thus declared it a crime to support such a monster.

Gaza is a small piece of land. No matter where you fight from or hide, there will always be someone there. Its not a vast battlefield, its a cage, with 1000s of people trapped. Its like making it impossible for any bees from leaving their hive and then bombing it because the couple of bees you want are in their. Where do you expect everyone to go? To your house? Calling ahead and dropping leaflets warning people that this area will be bombed is useless and only serves as psychological warfare since it is impossible for people to go anywhere. Funny that your government would rather ban the people that have been trapped in a cage and then routinely kidnapped, bombed and attacked with intent and new weapons being tested out on them, as has now been proven, than the people that are actually carrying out the greater crimes.


If it can be shown that Israeli leaders intentionally ordered troops to commit similar acts that go beyond all bounds of national self defense, it should be discussed in our elections and courts and policy can be set on that basis.

Its widespread knowledge now and who knows, maybe policy will change.


'Til then, hypocrites or not, we decide who sets foot in our country,

Ofcourse, but I think this is an incredibly stupid ban.


and our government has decided we will not give a soapbox to this pugilist just so he can encourage others to follow his example and break our laws. We also have laws against inciting hatred and disturbing the social peace, and Galloway's wild-eyed accusations and slander against various members of our society (especially the jewish community) go far in violating those laws.

Galloway does not attack the Jewish community. If you knew Galloway you would know that he regularly denounces and absolutely shreds people who dare to deny the Holocaust and or be anti-semitic in his presence. He is outspoken about the Zionist lobbies, which are not specifically Jewish. There are Christian Zionists, Hindu and even Muslim Zionists.


It's one thing to enter this country with the intention of carrying out an informed, civilized, academic discussion of research and issues our government would rather not discuss. That happens all the time and the government is powerless to do anything about it. It's another thing entirely for firebrands such as Galloway, Geert Wilders and the leadership of the KKK to come here and promote radical hatred and disrespect for the laws and constituents of our society. I don't care what government Galloway is serving in, we have laws he knowingly broke and more laws he wants to come and break, so unless he's bringing something useful like a one billion dollar cheque or a lucrative trade deal, we don't want him.

Theres nothing wrong with Galloway or Wilders. I protested the ban of Wilders when he wanted to come to the UK. Throwing Galloway and Wilders in the same pot as the KKK is vile considering the murderous history and nature of the KKK.

Banning a foreign prick for handing cash to Hamas, among other things, is well within the limits of the law. We'll see if the courts hold it up, that's where it should be decided.

Galloway handed out his aid to the people of Gaza, who are facing an internal crisis due to the lack of concern by the international community in preventing senseless invasions into and destruction of their lands. How many Western leaders are prepared to be banned for handing out cash to the Zionist regime and its child killing army?



If Galloway was coming to Canada to incite hatred against lesbians and gays, the opposition would have no second thoughts trying to keep him out, so it's funny that they'll welcome a rabble-rouser when it suits them.

So, Galloway's pro-Palestinian stance equates him to being anti-Semitic? I assume this is what you are referring to in your parable.



Wrong, many atheists simply believe that the muslim radicals running around today are more dangerous than Israel's radicals.

Since when are you entitled to speak for all atheists? I am assuming you are a Jew by ethnicity, due to your posting history on this forum.

This was simply an observation, why Godless atheists support the occupation of other people's lands may be related to lack of morals and materialistic aims.



The casualty counts might be lopsided, but many of us think the casualty counts would be even higher and more lopsided if it were the muslims wielding advanced training and weapons.

emphasis added. More than one thousand years of Muslim rule in the Holy Land, have you seen any such massacres of Jews taking place, besides by the Christian crusaders during the invasions from Europe. This speaks far more of the benevolence of the Palestinians, than of the outright genocides carried out by Israeli European immigrants against them.

Furthermore, you are here attempting to speak for all atheists on this forum. You are a Zionist and this is blatantly obvious, therefore your views are expected of that of a Zionist.



Most of us don't favour a jewish state insofar as it discriminates against racial and religious minorities, but we don't see the arabs' desire for an islamic state as an acceptable solution to replace it.

I have not seen anything, in any of your posts, to indicate you don't favor a Jewish state. Note the Arabs demanded a secular state under Arafat, but he was made completely ineffectual, thus forcing the Palestinians to support Hamas to defend their lands from foreign occupation. This threat of Islam features prominently in all Zionist propaganda. Demonization of Muslims will only further make peace illusive in the region. But more than that, killing Palestinians in the thousands, obviously will impede the peace process, or did Israel fail to see this. The conclusion, Israel does not, nor ever had, wanted peace.




Wrong again- religious causes were heavily involved in the effort to colonize the "pagan savages", as well as in the slave trade.

I take the view that atheistic darwinist propaganda, and the survival of the fittest human race dogma, was the main motivation for both the enslavement of Muslim and pagan Africans, and subsequent extermination of the Native Americans. Israel, like South Africa, is a successor colonial state, founded on the exodus of millions of people form their homes and the willful theft of their land. The proof are the repeated claims by Zionists themselves, of utilizing the land better than the Arabs, of advancing civilization, of being a democracy (where Arabs have no place in society), and a defense against Islamic threat (as if we are all demons). This is the most revealing of a colonial ideology, especially one founded by known atheist Zionist Jews, who used religion to sell Jews the idea to begin with.



Heck, even today black slavery is still practiced in many parts of the muslim world, so thanks for bringing up that example.

Examples please. You said many parts of the Muslim world. More than half of the Muslim world is in Asia, provide any evidence for an Asian Muslim country which practices this custom. As far as African societies, you ignore that the practice is raiding and enslaving rival tribes is an African custom which predates Islam and is prevalent mainly in African Christian societies and mixed Muslim-Christian societies in the central and southern African continent. Like slavery in the Native American societies, slavery is vastly different in Africa than it was in Western societies. It's neither race-based, nor hereditary. Furthermore, slaves were taken to replace lost family members killed by rival tribes.



Islam hasn't stopped muslims from gassing their own people,

Islam is a religion. Governments gas people, not religions. From your statement, I assume you are referring to Saddam Hussein, the only Arab leader to use chemical gas against what he perceived as rebels against his government. Guess who provided him with these weapons, and not only that, but political acceptance of his actions. The US.



from continuously assaulting neighbouring countries in every direction over a thousand year span,

Most people embraced Islam of heir own will. The Muslims, particularly in the Asian continent, were acquainted with Muslim mystics and wandering teachers long before Islamic armies entered these regions. I have read in several sources that Islam entered Africa the same way. The two entities which the Muslims did fight were the Romans and the Persians, both of which were occupying Arab lands and oppressive against the Arabs, using them for pawns in their wars against each other.



and killing more Palestinians and Iraqis than even Israel and America have.

In the Gaza offensive, it would be rather hard for the Palestinians to kill one thousand civilians. Israel willfully supported Fateh over Hamas, they wanted the bloodshed between them to continue, luckily few people were actually killed and they achieved peace quickly. Furthermore, it would be equally hard for US funded sectarian militias in Iraq to kill more than 100,000 people. You can gouge the public sentiment to reveal the main culprit in each case. The basic rule is, do not occupy other people's lands, otherwise they will resist. Using small isolated cases of intermittent violence to justify exploitation, occupation, and genocide is not only dishonest, but reveals a moral void.



Atheists aren't perfect, but we use logic and reasoning in coming to our conclusions, rather than listening to some imbecile preacher who tells us how to live our lives based on their narrow interpretation of some book that has as much proof to back it up as Grimm's Fairy Tales. Yeah let's all go digging through works of fiction in order to find our morals, that will surely make the world a better place.



P.S. How did you let this conversation become one about atheist morals, what does that have to do with Galloway?

My observation of a trend of atheists supporting colonialism and oppression of third world people throughout history. It is interesting to note that Atheism is a mainly white Western phenoma, some people have 'evolved' so much pride that they reject even their own creator.


He went in to Gaza, physically embraced Hanniyeh, handed him hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, and then boasted to the world's media that he was giving financial support to Hamas.

Financial support to Hamas in the form of food, water, and medicine. Zionists' deceptions never end. Helping starving people on the brink of death with aid because of boycott by the international community is heroic and deeply touching. Galloway is a hero of humanity and wonderful God-fearing individual.

Plus, considering the one thousand Palestinian civilians killed and four thousand injured, when are the governments of the West going to take action against the real war criminals, those Zionists.


First it's denial, then justification once the former no longer works. We are trying to undermine a regime that terrorizes those who don't conform to its strict interpretation of islam,

Israel, the savior of the Muslims. LOL. Do you really want us to believe this? We aren't that naive. Hamas is a rightfully elected representative of the people, whose goal is to bring normalcy and security to the Palestinians, while Israel is the object of terror and death for all Palestinians. No one thinks Israel is a hero in Palestine, they should stop deluding themselves.



that sends women and children to the border with bombs strapped to their chests, that shoots rockets at civilian targets with the intent of making daily life impossible for hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens.

As opposed to assymetric warfare in which civilians are the main targets, where homes are demolished, children shot and killed on sight, with the intent to starve to death an innocent populace whose only crime is to be Palestinian and natives of the land?


And when the Israelis send in their inevitable response,

The Israelis invaded Gaza, not vice versa. Colonialists always portray themselves as the victims of starving and impoverished savages. Imperialism and racism lives on in Israel in full force, justifying the murder of thousands of Palestinians.


Hanniyeh's forces merge themselves into the various communities to make sure Palestinian civilians bear the brunt of any fighting. Hanniyeh is involved in all of this, and elected or not, most Canadians find his actions disgraceful and appalling, and we have thus declared it a crime to support such a monster.

Instead of fighting the Israeli army? Don't be ridiculous. They would never be as popular as they are, if they did such. Simple war propaganda by Israel to earn the support of ignorant Westerners. Most Westerners probably don't even know who Ismail Haniya is.



If it can be shown that Israeli leaders intentionally ordered troops to commit similar acts that go beyond all bounds of national self defense, it should be discussed in our elections and courts and policy can be set on that basis.

As if Israel, a nation which occupies other peoples' land for 60 years cares for justice. The Israeli courts are a complete spam to justice everywhere.



'Til then, hypocrites or not, we decide who sets foot in our country, and our government has decided we will not give a soapbox to this pugilist just so he can encourage others to follow his example and break our laws. We also have laws against inciting hatred and disturbing the social peace, and Galloway's wild-eyed accusations and slander against various members of our society (especially the jewish community) go far in violating those laws.

You do not speak for all Canadians. Furthermore, give evidence to prove that Galloway has made anti-Jewish remarks. Provide sources.




It's one thing to enter this country with the intention of carrying out an informed, civilized, academic discussion of research and issues our government would rather not discuss. That happens all the time and the government is powerless to do anything about it. It's another thing entirely for firebrands such as Galloway, Geert Wilders and the leadership of the KKK to come here and promote radical hatred and disrespect for the laws and constituents of our society. I don't care what government Galloway is serving in, we have laws he knowingly broke and more laws he wants to come and break, so unless he's bringing something useful like a one billion dollar cheque or a lucrative trade deal, we don't want him.

Comparing him to racists like Wilders and the KKK is complete misinformation and you know it. It is not being a firebrand to criticize the forced starvation of millions of Palestinians, the deaths of thousands in the Gaza invasion, and the apartheid laws in Israel (with its Jewish-only roads, neighborhoods, and discrimination against Arabs).

This has so far not been a debate, but a monopoly of information of simply the Zionist view, with little regard to the views of Palestinians. The Zionists have perpetually demonized all those who criticize them. Silencing and banning Galloway is another way to silence criticism of Israel. So much for freedom of speech.

It's very convenient for you to label me a zionist, that's a good way to deflect attention from the savagery and violence muslim radicals have brought to the table. I believe that's what our good ole' commie friend Georgie boy likes to do, you'd probably make him proud. So I'm a jew all of a sudden am I, because I strongly support them? What does that make you then, a wife-beating sheik perhaps?

I'm not wasting my time giving specifics here, that can be covered in other topics where I'd be happy to oblige. Galloway's incessant attacks on the zionist lobby, as if it had a physical stranglehold on the western media, constitute hate speech here. He also does not hesitate to associate leaders in the jewish community with the worst of zionism's perceived abuses. To date, this kind of speech has not been tolerated anymore than we'll tolerate incitement against those who lobby for muslim causes. This is a slippery slope to walk here, I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if a high profile firebrand came here to accuse every arab newspaper of supporting and encouraging the islamization of the west.

Bottom line is we said don't send cash to Hamas. If Galloway wants his fat mug photographed handing the money over, and then wants to come here and get his spanking, I say he should get it. Hopefully the courts will agree.

Banning a foreign prick for handing cash to Hamas, among other things, is well within the limits of the law. We'll see if the courts hold it up, that's where it should be decided. If Galloway was coming to Canada to incite hatred against lesbians and gays, the opposition would have no second thoughts trying to keep him out, so it's funny that they'll welcome a rabble-rouser when it suits them.

1. You have no clue as to the Palestinian situation.
2. As long as you are comfortable that your freedoms are being eradicated, all good. Freedom of speech is the only hope against Fascism. You are an Orwellian dream.

I wonder how many Jews in Canada support, fund and enable the occupation.

I wonder how many Jews in Canada support, fund and enable the occupation.

Lookit up.

The country recognizes Israel as a legitimate nation and that's about it. We don't supply them etc.

The common Canadian usually does have an opinion one way or another, they argue a lot about it and basically nothing one way or another comes of it, just like any argument.

http://www.markpeterhughes.com/photos/20070600LMAcrossAmerica/MItoMA/20CanadaMountie.JPGThe Old Canada.

You are an Orwellian dream.Or nightmare.

Nah, I dont think the ban will last long. It will be overturned, maybe not in the next couple of months or so, but it will. After all, this is Canada, some of the most reasonable people in North America, or so my family living there tell me. Galloway is not any worse than any other politician. I guess Wilberforce wasnt a very welcome man in some parts of the world either.

1. You have no clue as to the Palestinian situation.

Sure I do. They're suffering, it sucks, but their leaders want to keep fighting anyhow. On the other hand, I don't think you understand the Israeli situation, and how low casualty counts don't matter when entire cities are sent running for the bomb shelters on a daily basis, with 15 second warnings. I see both sides in the wrong, but the vast majority of times I see the quiet being disturbed by Palestinian rockets, then you get the disproportionate reprisal from Israel afterwards.


2. As long as you are comfortable that your freedoms are being eradicated, all good. Freedom of speech is the only hope against Fascism. You are an Orwellian dream.

Oh I know, how frightening. Canada is bringing the world back into the dark ages of book burning. I suppose you were equally appalled when Geert Wilders was denied entry to the UK? He didn't even need a visa, he's a European citizen, but apparently Britain still found sufficient legal grounds to ban him. Yes, I'm sure you must have been all over that one.

Fact is, freedom of speech is not freedom to incite, that's how Canada has operated for a long time. Furthermore, none of our laws say that foreigners have freedom of movement across our borders. We're very reluctant to tolerate people who come here with the intent to disturb the social peace by making wild and often baseless accusations targeting specific social groups (i.e. zionists, the upper class, conservative voters, etc.). We're also reluctant to tolerate anyone who comes here having openly broken our laws on dealing with terrorist organizations, and it's clear Galloway did that much at the very least. Just remember that you're opening pandora's box here- if it's ok for Galloway to come, then it's ok for Wilders and Lieberman to come as well. Frankly I'd rather ban all three than see any of them on my soil.

I wonder how many Jews in Canada support, fund and enable the occupation.

I wonder how many Indian muslims funded and assisted the various attacks in Mumbai.

It's very convenient for you to label me a zionist, that's a good way to deflect attention from the savagery and violence muslim radicals have brought to the table. I believe that's what our good ole' commie friend Georgie boy likes to do, you'd probably make him proud. So I'm a jew all of a sudden am I, because I strongly support them? What does that make you then, a wife-beating sheik perhaps?

You are a Zionist, you support Israel. Do you deny this?

Don't beat around the bush. Are you a Jew, by ethnicity, or not?

Regardless, I am assuming you are a Zionist Jew considering your anti-Palestinian and extreme anti-Muslim rhetoric.

Not that being a Jew is anything wrong, but the fact is that Zionist Jews as opposed to Zionists of other faiths have a particular manner of speech, i.e. Islamofascist, Islamic radical, savages, etc.



I'm not wasting my time giving specifics here, that can be covered in other topics where I'd be happy to oblige. Galloway's incessant attacks on the zionist lobby, as if it had a physical stranglehold on the western media, constitute hate speech here.

Talking about a lobby's control over national politics is not hate speech. If we talk about tobacco lobbyists control over national policies, is that hate speech. Similarly if we talk about a country or an ideology's control over foreign policy, this is freedom of speech, not hate speech.



He also does not hesitate to associate leaders in the jewish community with the worst of zionism's perceived abuses.

Even if some of the Jewish organizations are some of the major supporters of Israel in the West. Officially religious organizations aren't allowed to lobby nor have such influence in the government.



To date, this kind of speech has not been tolerated anymore than we'll tolerate incitement against those who lobby for muslim causes. This is a slippery slope to walk here, I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if a high profile firebrand came here to accuse every arab newspaper of supporting and encouraging the islamization of the west.

The Zionist organizations have been in the forefront of accusing our religious leaders in the West this. How many hundreds of innocent Imams have been jailed or deported to prisons in the Middle East? Zionists have been in the forefront of advocating against Muslim causes and supporting the invasions and destruction of Muslim nations. Their tremendous influence is the cause of the majority of the problems for Muslim World.



Bottom line is we said don't send cash to Hamas. If Galloway wants his fat mug photographed handing the money over, and then wants to come here and get his spanking, I say he should get it. Hopefully the courts will agree.

Yet this does not stop these nations from arming Israel to the teeth against impoverished Palestinians. God is with the oppressed, those who are well-fed and sitting in comfort while their neighbors starve are the accursed of God. And you claim the Israelis are oppressed, how many Palestinians starve to death, how many from lack of medical care, how many from Israeli attacks? By blockading starving people, Israel can never be safe, all this will come back to Israel. 1.7 billion Muslims are watching, and the Palestinians are part of us, so Israel should achieve peace and justice, otherwise justice will be forced on them.

I wonder how many Indian muslims funded and assisted the various attacks in Mumbai.

Theres been attacks and riots and clashes in India for a long time. Atheists, Christians, Muslims and Hindus and other have been at it. It just doesnt get reported that well when others do it.

You are a Zionist, you support Israel. Do you deny this?

I support a two state solution, nothing more, nothing less. You can label me whatever "ist" you think that entails.


Don't beat around the bush. Are you a Jew, by ethnicity, or not?

I'm not, but I do have both Palestinian and jewish relatives, oddly enough. Now tell me why this matters, as I find your questioning very rude and intrusive. If it's beyond your comprehension that anyone but a jew can support Israel's right to exist, then I interpret your words as saying that I should dismiss all future arguments on your behalf, because you're a muslim with obvious anti-western bias, and a paranoid fear of atheist science and reason.


Not that being a Jew is anything wrong, but the fact is that Zionist Jews as opposed to Zionists of other faiths have a particular manner of speech, i.e. Islamofascist, Islamic radical, savages, etc.

You pay no attention to who I'm calling an islamofascist, radical, or savage. If someone sending kids to blow themselves up in shopping malls or stashing weapons in mosques isn't all of the above, then I really don't know what is.


Talking about a lobby's control over national politics is not hate speech. If we talk about tobacco lobbyists control over national policies, is that hate speech. Similarly if we talk about a country or an ideology's control over foreign policy, this is freedom of speech, not hate speech.

It's hate speech when it alleges that zionists are somehow conspiring to physically prevent opposing ideas from surfacing (and I'm not talking about blocking Galloway). It's hate speech when our leaders and their supporters are branded murderers and tyrants without a full accounting of the evidence or thought for due process. Any time a specific group is targeted with accusations that incite hate and violence against that group, without a proper discussion of the evidence and complexities of the issue, it's hate speech.

Now I'm not one to say that hate speech should be banned. The fact is, regardless, that hate speech is banned here, and such a ban needs to be applied equally to all groups who threaten the social peace. If Canadians want genuine free speech with no restrictions, then let's have it, but I'm not interested in seeing a regime where vocal special interests get to pick and choose between what forms of hate speech they find acceptable and what forms they oppose.


Even if some of the Jewish organizations are some of the major supporters of Israel in the West. Officially religious organizations aren't allowed to lobby nor have such influence in the government.

Are they lobbying as a religious organization, or as a cultural organization? Arab and muslim lobbies exist here just like jewish lobbies, so they're all either legal or they should all be banned.


The Zionist organizations have been in the forefront of accusing our religious leaders in the West this.

Only the zionists? They were the only ones to witness 9-11 and what muslim extremists are capable of? And only zionists noticed the radical preachers in England telling their followers to blow up buses and trains?


Zionists have been in the forefront of advocating against Muslim causes and supporting the invasions and destruction of Muslim nations. Their tremendous influence is the cause of the majority of the problems for Muslim World.

There, now you're making blanket statements about zionists and the evils they create. I suppose, using the logic you cited above, such accusations only come from you because you're a biased western-hating muslim? Bullshit to you and your claims that zionists have caused the "majority" of the problems in the muslim world. Maybe the radicalists' reaction to zionism has caused the muslim world major problems, but outside Palestine there really isn't much the zionists can do. Perhaps I missed something here, did Israel hold a gun to America's head and tell them invade Iraq or else? Did muslims never go to war with anyone before Israel suddenly showed up?


Yet this does not stop these nations from arming Israel to the teeth against impoverished Palestinians. God is with the oppressed, those who are well-fed and sitting in comfort while their neighbors starve are the accursed of God.

I see no evidence that you have the first clue what god is or wants, if it/she even exists. As for Israel arming itself to the teeth, I say a total ban on all weapons exports to the middle east is in order, provided Russia and China agree to cooperate. Of course that will mostly benefit Israel, since their domestic manufacturing capabilities are far superior to their opponents.


And you claim the Israelis are oppressed, how many Palestinians starve to death, how many from lack of medical care, how many from Israeli attacks?

Surprisingly few compared to the numbers that have died at the hands of their own arab brethren.


By blockading starving people, Israel can never be safe, all this will come back to Israel. 1.7 billion Muslims are watching, and the Palestinians are part of us, so Israel should achieve peace and justice, otherwise justice will be forced on them.

If 1.7 billion muslims were capable of forcing anything on Israel, they would have done it 60 years ago. The only peaceful and just solution is one involving a compromise that provides for sovereign jewish and Palestinian states.

Sure I do. They're suffering, it sucks, but their leaders want to keep fighting anyhow.

So you are saying: Why don`t they roll over and play dead? Or, why don`t they just accept their oppression?


On the other hand, I don't think you understand the Israeli situation, and how low casualty counts don't matter when entire cities are sent running for the bomb shelters on a daily basis, with 15 second warnings.

Entire cities? A bit dramatic.


I see both sides in the wrong, but the vast majority of times I see the quiet being disturbed by Palestinian rockets, then you get the disproportionate reprisal from Israel afterwards.

This is what you will see on Western TV. So that you can sleep well at night when 1300 Palestinians are slaughtered.


Oh I know, how frightening. Canada is bringing the world back into the dark ages of book burning. I suppose you were equally appalled when Geert Wilders was denied entry to the UK? He didn't even need a visa, he's a European citizen, but apparently Britain still found sufficient legal grounds to ban him. Yes, I'm sure you must have been all over that one.

Let me put it this way, "I may utterly disagree with your opinion, but I will die for your right to express it."

That is freedom of speech. Which is slowly dying under threat of "terrorism"!


Fact is, freedom of speech is not freedom to incite, that's how Canada has operated for a long time.

Of course. And the ADL is not a Jewish lobby. :D

So you are saying: Why don`t they roll over and play dead? Or, why don`t they just accept their oppression?

No, I'm saying stop targeting Israeli civilians. It's clearly not helping their cause as far as survivability goes, so in what sense is it a necessary response?


Entire cities? A bit dramatic.

I count Sderot and Ashkelon as cities. Being Canadian, my definition might be lax, but they're still large populations and yes, when even a single rocket comes near one of these populations, the entire city has to run for the bomb shelters. The casualty counts would be much higher if they didn't do this.


This is what you will see on Western TV. So that you can sleep well at night when 1300 Palestinians are slaughtered.

Do you sleep well at night knowing Israeli kids are being targeted on their way to and from school? I don't sleep well knowing that either side is suffering.


Let me put it this way, "I may utterly disagree with your opinion, but I will die for your right to express it."

That is freedom of speech. Which is slowly dying under threat of "terrorism"!

Well I wouldn't put my life on the line for someone's freedom to incite hatred unless everyone else has the same freedom, including white supremacists.


Of course. And the ADL is not a Jewish lobby. :D

We're talking about Canada, not the US, so get with the program. In any event, even if it was a Canadian group, I don't see what bringing up the ADL or jewish lobbies has to do with the point you were responding to.

No, I'm saying stop targeting Israeli civilians. It's clearly not helping their cause as far as survivability goes, so in what sense is it a necessary response?

Israelis target Palestinian civilians. Palestinians target Israeli civilians. This is regrettable. It is a product of invasion and oppression. The violence needs to end unilaterally, and sincere dialogue initiated.


I count Sderot and Ashkelon as cities. Being Canadian, my definition might be lax, but they're still large populations and yes, when even a single rocket comes near one of these populations, the entire city has to run for the bomb shelters. The casualty counts would be much higher if they didn't do this.

Rockets = Fighter jets and gunships? Unfortunately the Palestinians have nowhere to run to.


Do you sleep well at night knowing Israeli kids are being targeted on their way to and from school? I don't sleep well knowing that either side is suffering.

I don`t like to see ANY kid suffer. Israel can CHOOSE to do the right thing and end the violence. They CHOOSE not to. Thus the suffering. A response against oppression.


Well I wouldn't put my life on the line for someone's freedom to incite hatred unless everyone else has the same freedom, including white supremacists.

Its a term of speech. :) Yes, EVERYONE should have the SAME freedom of speech.


We're talking about Canada, not the US, so get with the program. In any event, even if it was a Canadian group, I don't see what bringing up the ADL or jewish lobbies has to do with the point you were responding to.

From what I can gather, Canada IS part of the US. :D
The point I am making is: If you condemn Jews for whatever, the ADL will silence you. You can condemn Palestinians at will and there is not a peep from the ADL.

Shhh! Strawdog! You anti-semitic b*st*rd!










:rolleyes::p

Atheists, Christians, Muslims and Hindus and other have been at it. Atheists?

Atheists?

The Naxalites include Atheists

The Naxalites include Atheists Ah, communists. I get it.

Ah, communists. I get it.

Communists, secularists and atheists

I support a two state solution, nothing more, nothing less. You can label me whatever "ist" you think that entails.
Zi·on·ism
\ˈzī-ə-ˌni-zəm\
Function:
noun
Date:
1896

: an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel

(Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

Supporting the creation of the state of Israel (period) is the definition of a Zionist. Therefore, even if you accept a two-state solution (where Palestine is economically, militarily, and politically dependent on Israel), it is still Zionism. I have never heard you advocate for an independent Palestinian state on this forum, as a matter of fact, you have consistently held the opposite. So explain what exactly is your idea of a Palestinian state. Right of return for refugees, water rights, airports, a military, free elections, control of its borders, return to 1967 borders?



I'm not, but I do have both Palestinian and jewish relatives, oddly enough.

Now how does that work out. A Palestinian whose entire political outlook is based on Israeli propaganda. We aren't that naive. You support 100% the Israeli side in this conflict, without ANY sympathy for Palestinians. That is why you I suspect you of being an ethnic Jew who ascribes to Zionism, and not only that, of being an Atheist. The great mystery of mysteries in our age. Atheist Zionists.



Now tell me why this matters, as I find your questioning very rude and intrusive. If it's beyond your comprehension that anyone but a jew can support Israel's right to exist,

It is not the mere act of supporting Zionist Israel's colonial existence, but largely based on the propaganda which you further, which is basically IDF propaganda, complete and full. I have stated this in my previous post, read more diligently.



then I interpret your words as saying that I should dismiss all future arguments on your behalf, because you're a muslim with obvious anti-western bias, and a paranoid fear of atheist science and reason.


You can do what you like. Just realize that if you declare Palestinians as sub-humans, savages, terrorists, etc. a great many people, such as I, will take offense to this.

I do have a anti-Western bias, i do not deny it. Any nationalist would oppose the invasion of their nations by another state as an attack on their way of life, and the invading nation would be militarily and politically viewed as the enemy. I am a Pan-Islamic Nationalist, therefore it serves that I dislike the invasion of my lands by foreign powers, including the colonial, apartheid state of Israel. I have no fear of atheists, as a matter of fact I pity them for their lack of empathy and human compassion, which can only be achieved by the acceptance of One God (which only true Muslims, Christians, and Jews can experience).



You pay no attention to who I'm calling an islamofascist, radical, or savage. If someone sending kids to blow themselves up in shopping malls or stashing weapons in mosques isn't all of the above, then I really don't know what is.


And what of Israeli soldiers shooting Palestinian babies, or demolishing Palestinian homes with their families still inside, or of beating Palestinian teenagers. Israel does not have any right to exist, it is built upon the skulls of Palestinian Christians and Muslims. This land will never belong to Israel, no matter how many Palestinians they kill or exile, or no matter what they force the Western populace to swallow to continue to support their illegal occupation. True God-fearing people all over the world realize that Israel has no right to exist.



It's hate speech when it alleges that zionists are somehow conspiring to physically prevent opposing ideas from surfacing (and I'm not talking about blocking Galloway). It's hate speech when our leaders and their supporters are branded murderers and tyrants without a full accounting of the evidence or thought for due process. Any time a specific group is targeted with accusations that incite hate and violence against that group, without a proper discussion of the evidence and complexities of the issue, it's hate speech.

This is precisely what Israel has done to the world's Muslims and Arabs. Which nation is it which fully supported and propagated the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, and other Muslim countries claiming to serve in the West's interests. How many people has Israel killed in its unilateral invasions of Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank? Who is it which is the most adamant in support of future invasions into Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, portraying them in the favor of the US. Wherever there is a conflict in which Muslims are involved, it is Israel which gives aid to suppress and exploit the Muslims. We only need to look at India, who is the largest recepient of Israeli arms and aid, to be used against Pakistan. Lest we forget, Pakistan shot down an Israeli spy drone flying over its border with India in 2001. So who is it which interferes in the independence, ascendancy, and self-determination of the other?

Bringing these great travesties of justice in the open is not hate speech, it is truth and justice. That type which will further curtail and disrupt the Israeli grip on the Western power centers. Obviously, as Iraq, Afghanistan, and American lack of any indignation in the recent Lebanon and Gaza invasions shows, it is America which is in the pocket of Israel, and not vice versa.



Now I'm not one to say that hate speech should be banned. The fact is, regardless, that hate speech is banned here, and such a ban needs to be applied equally to all groups who threaten the social peace. If Canadians want genuine free speech with no restrictions, then let's have it, but I'm not interested in seeing a regime where vocal special interests get to pick and choose between what forms of hate speech they find acceptable and what forms they oppose.

Criticizing occupation of Palestinian lands by a much more powerful Israeli army is not hate-speech. The biggest problem which I, and I'm sure Galloway, would have with this assertion is that how come criticism of Israel is hate speech and while criticism of Iran or Gaza or Pakistan is benevolent. This is another ploy which the Zionists use to silence criticism of their policies. In a true democracy, the unstoppable grip of Zionist lobbies in the West would be discussed and curtailed, and not silenced. This proves without a doubt that not only America, but other Western nations like Canada are slaves to Israeli foreign policy in the Middle East.

Galloway is the type of individual who should be honored and celebrated for his commitment to truth, regardless of the machinations of his countries' slavery to Zionism.



Are they lobbying as a religious organization, or as a cultural organization? Arab and muslim lobbies exist here just like jewish lobbies, so they're all either legal or they should all be banned.

This is exactly what the Zionists have always tries to do in the West. Curtail, ban, or make ineffectual any criticism of Israel or its policies. Anti-Semitism against Semites. Those Jews who oppose Israel are termed as self-hating Jews. These are all the type of rhetoric and deception which the Zionists do to further their agendas.



Only the zionists? They were the only ones to witness 9-11 and what muslim extremists are capable of? And only zionists noticed the radical preachers in England telling their followers to blow up buses and trains?

Zionists and their supporters in the Western power centers have used this as an excuse to engage in manhunts to silence all Islamic scholars, university professors, or Muslims of influence who oppose Zionism and criticize Israel's right to oppress the Palestinians. Look no more the 2002 case where the Anti-Defamation League plea to the American Libraries' Association for destroying a number of American Palestinian libraries was denied (ALA biannual report), or ADL's attempted banning of CAIR from an event entitled "Day of Dialogue" by the Florida Human Commission on Human Relations, or futile attempt by ADL to pressure the California Select Committee on Hate Crimes fto not allow a CAIR representative to speak. All these are available online, you can research these events for yourself.




There, now you're making blanket statements about zionists and the evils they create. I suppose, using the logic you cited above, such accusations only come from you because you're a biased western-hating muslim? Bullshit to you and your claims that zionists have caused the "majority" of the problems in the muslim world. Maybe the radicalists' reaction to zionism has caused the muslim world major problems, but outside Palestine there really isn't much the zionists can do. Perhaps I missed something here, did Israel hold a gun to America's head and tell them invade Iraq or else? Did muslims never go to war with anyone before Israel suddenly showed up?


We are not talking about the past, we are talking about the present. The Israeli lobby AIPAC was one of the main sources of propaganda and pressure supporting the Bush administrations moves to invade Iraq. Almost all of the faulty propaganda, a hallmark of Zionist hysteria, was from Israeli Mossad and Zionist agents such as Paul Wolfowitz. Ever since the creation of Israel, the Muslim world has been in constant war with the bold Western invasions of its lands. Coincidence, not so.




I see no evidence that you have the first clue what god is or wants, if it/she even exists. As for Israel arming itself to the teeth, I say a total ban on all weapons exports to the middle east is in order, provided Russia and China agree to cooperate. Of course that will mostly benefit Israel, since their domestic manufacturing capabilities are far superior to their opponents.


Any nation with the incoming foreign aid budget of Israel from the West, which Israel receives would be in a similar position. Frankly, it is amazing what the Lebanese, Iranians, Palestinians, and Syrians have achieved with Western sanctions and complicity in isolated them.

God will indeed support the oppressed. Why do you think God blessed the early Jews, Christians, and Muslims with success against their enemies? Without justice, God's help is taken away. The Palestinians will be successful because God is on their side.



Surprisingly few compared to the numbers that have died at the hands of their own arab brethren.


Sources.



If 1.7 billion muslims were capable of forcing anything on Israel, they would have done it 60 years ago. The only peaceful and just solution is one involving a compromise that provides for sovereign jewish and Palestinian states.

Which Israel will never allow, being an expansionist state founded on the land and bodies of Palestinian natives. The Zionists are Europeans, there is little evidence they are ethnic Jews to begin with. Furthermore, their founders were atheists and they completely ignored the peace and security present in the Muslim-ruled Holy Land before their invasions. The Zionists will pay for their crimes, even if God Himself will make them pay. The Muslims are indeed with their Palestinian brethren, we are with them whether they are starving, languishing in jails, being fired upon by Israeli soldiers, or crushed under Israeli tanks. A age of injustice is finished, America is sinking and Israel along with it will fall. Oppression cannot sustain itself forever, and thus now the stage is set for the rise of Muslim ascendancy in their lands. You will see, the optimism of the 1970s are upon us again. We will break our shackles, and take control of our lives. Those who wish for peace, must establish peace now, or otherwise be forced to make room for a more equitable order.

Ah, communists. I get it.
”
Communists, secularists and atheists I am having trouble finding any references to the theistic beliefs, if any, of the Naxalites themselves.

Apparently they do not call themselves atheists, or "secularists" whatever that is going to turn out to mean in this thread.

I am having trouble finding any references to the theistic beliefs, if any, of the Naxalites themselves.

Apparently they do not call themselves atheists, or "secularists" whatever that is going to turn out to mean in this thread.

India consists of more cultures, languages, religions and other groups than any of us can imagine. Not everything is available on everyone from our standard English sources. Also, its hard to find the theistic beliefs of people that dont have any.

I like this Nazi fuck (Galloway)'s logic - "I've been sitting in the British parliament for 23 years, so how can I be a security risk?"

He's a British citizen so he can't be kicked out of the country. But he's not a Canadian citizen, so off with him.

You don't know anything about him, clearly.
He's a socialist.
For some reason, socialists in the uk are historically strongly pro arabic.

India consists of more cultures, languages, religions and other groups than any of us can imagine. Not everything is available on everyone from our standard English sources. Also, its hard to find the theistic beliefs of people that dont have any. It wasn't hard to find descriptions of the philosophical background, political ideology and demographic roots of the Naxalites, though. Atheism is not mentioned. It appears to be irrelevant, if present.

It wasn't hard to find descriptions of the philosophical background, political ideology and demographic roots of the Naxalites, though. Atheism is not mentioned. It appears to be irrelevant, if present.

Then you should know by pretty well what they comprise of.

I'll give you people some Canadian perspective (though you don't deserve it, I see nothing but ignorance about Canada in this thread).

Back in the 60's de Gaulle came to Canada to basically cause trouble. He tried to stir up french nationalism in Quebec. Frankly in some counties it could be said he was inciting a coup.

Luckily he didn't know fuck all about Quebec, which does not identify at all with it's (former) European patron. In fact those actual nationalistic Quebecois whom WOULD like to separate from Canada, understand Quebec was traded to The British in the Treaty of Paris (1763) for the tiny island group of Guadeloupe. They hate France and de Gaulle was still , pathetically trying to restore old French glory, which Quebec wanted none of that BS.

Since then, Canada has been VERY careful about politicians with agendas entering Canada.

The long and the short of it is:

We are having problems with "youth" violence and de-stabilization in Montreal right now.

We don't need some foriegner causing strife, in our otherwise very stable country and society. No one in Canada wants that.

So fuck off, don't care if you are right, go do it in your own country. As I said before Canada has hardly any fucking influence in the middle east, and has only participated in peace overtures and efforts in the region.

Since then, Canada has been VERY careful about politicians with agendas entering Canada..

Which other politician(s) have they banned?

A lot that never hit the media. Trust me on that one. This is a big stink because of fucknig agendas and Canada is a pawn in this fucking game- YOU fucking know it.

The truth can be a frigthening thing, can't it Nietzschefan? Best to ring your self in with buckets of sand, then stick your head in them. That should work.

Go to hell Ophiolite- explain to me why this guy needs to go to Canada so badly. I know our human rights record is in the Toilet? We have thrown countless coup d'Etat over the years? Have always subjugated minorities in our own country? We were peaceful when peaceful wasn't cool. We mind our own business.

People are free to say anything they want in Canada, I'm living proof. The Kaders (mother and sisters), whom had father and son in Al Queda, are able to say openly they liked how many people got killed in sept 11, that the victims deserved it, etc.

We don't need a foreign politician fucking with us, as I stated, we've had that before and that why though this might seem unusual, it does make perfect sense if you understand our history.

Oh yeah?



TheStar.com | Canada | Canada votes alone for Israel

Canada's rights record blasted during UN review
Canada could soon find itself "named and shamed" as a country that violates human rights in a United Nations review.
We're the only one of 47 nations on UN rights panel to refuse to condemn military offensive in Gaza
http://www.thestar.com/article/569872

I dont agree that Canada is such a great violator of human rights. I love Canada and maybe some day will even live there. Just hope they can listen to reason and unban Galloway

Fuck it. Let the Jihad begin may the best "race" win.

Jihad? The Canadians have some inner struggles going on? Which might these be?

<insert argument, while ignoring all previous counterpoints, here>

ZZZZzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzz

Go to hell Ophiolite- explain to me why this guy needs to go to Canada so badly. I know our human rights record is in the Toilet? We have thrown countless coup d'Etat over the years? Have always subjugated minorities in our own country? We were peaceful when peaceful wasn't cool. We mind our own business.Wait a moment. What was that?
We mind our own business.Say again.

We mind our own business.Hmmm. Maybe that's why Galloway needs to visit so badly. Maybe complacent, inward looking ignorance doesn't appeal to him.

"Look, look! An unpleasant fact. Help me Mr. Redcoat, stop the nasty man speak truth."

I have never heard you advocate for an independent Palestinian state on this forum, as a matter of fact, you have consistently held the opposite. So explain what exactly is your idea of a Palestinian state. Right of return for refugees, water rights, airports, a military, free elections, control of its borders, return to 1967 borders?

All of the above except a blanket right of return for refugees. Some refugees should be allowed to return, the rest should get financial compensation.


Now how does that work out. A Palestinian whose entire political outlook is based on Israeli propaganda. We aren't that naive.

I didn't say I'm Palestinian. I said I have Palestinian relatives.


You can do what you like. Just realize that if you declare Palestinians as sub-humans, savages, terrorists, etc. a great many people, such as I, will take offense to this.

I definitely think there are Palestinians who fall into that category. There are Israelis who fit in there as well, but I'll call it as I see it regardless of how much that offends you.


I do have a anti-Western bias, i do not deny it. Any nationalist would oppose the invasion of their nations by another state as an attack on their way of life, and the invading nation would be militarily and politically viewed as the enemy. I am a Pan-Islamic Nationalist, therefore it serves that I dislike the invasion of my lands by foreign powers, including the colonial, apartheid state of Israel.

You can't pretend arabs haven't been trying to do precisely that to Israel since before it was even a country. Heck, you're completely blind to all the lands that have been conquered and ethnically cleansed by muslims continuing to this very day, why should I sympathize with your frustration? As for apartheid states, tell me how Israel fits the definition but Jordan doesn't?


I have no fear of atheists, as a matter of fact I pity them for their lack of empathy and human compassion, which can only be achieved by the acceptance of One God (which only true Muslims, Christians, and Jews can experience).

Backward, outdated, closed-minded reasoning right there.


And what of Israeli soldiers shooting Palestinian babies, or demolishing Palestinian homes with their families still inside, or of beating Palestinian teenagers.

They should be severely punished, with the international community applying the pressure necessary to make sure it's done.


Israel does not have any right to exist, it is built upon the skulls of Palestinian Christians and Muslims. This land will never belong to Israel, no matter how many Palestinians they kill or exile, or no matter what they force the Western populace to swallow to continue to support their illegal occupation. True God-fearing people all over the world realize that Israel has no right to exist.

It's called the right of self-determination, which the arabs foolishly tried to exterminate in 1948 and continued to resist in subsequent years. That's what got the Palestinians into their present mess. Do the Serbs have a right of return to muslim Kosovo? Does Kosovo have no right to exist?


Which nation is it which fully supported and propagated the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, and other Muslim countries claiming to serve in the West's interests.

America, Britain and Australia all qualify as valid answers.


Who is it which is the most adamant in support of future invasions into Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, portraying them in the favor of the US.

I have not heard a peep from the Israeli government regarding invading Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. I do hear India talking about the latter. As for Syria and Iran, they advocate war against Israel on a daily basis, so who cares if Israel rattles the sabre back at them?


Wherever there is a conflict in which Muslims are involved, it is Israel which gives aid to suppress and exploit the Muslims.

Give me a specific example of what Israel is doing in Afghanistan.


We only need to look at India, who is the largest recepient of Israeli arms and aid, to be used against Pakistan. Lest we forget, Pakistan shot down an Israeli spy drone flying over its border with India in 2001. So who is it which interferes in the independence, ascendancy, and self-determination of the other?

India has every right to protect itself from Pakistan's naked aggression, good on Israel to help them out in this regard. In fact, thanks to Israel, India is about to gain possession of the world's first anti-terrorism satellite, and I hope they put it to good use.


Bringing these great travesties of justice in the open is not hate speech, it is truth and justice.

In Canada, truth and justice are expressed and advocated with sensitivity and nuance.


Criticizing occupation of Palestinian lands by a much more powerful Israeli army is not hate-speech. The biggest problem which I, and I'm sure Galloway, would have with this assertion is that how come criticism of Israel is hate speech and while criticism of Iran or Gaza or Pakistan is benevolent.

How come folks like Chomsky are able to do it without causing a stir? How come we just had "Israel Apartheid Week" in several cities across Canada but the government stood aside? Opposition to an ideology doesn't have to freak people out and drive members of our society into a panicked rage.


Anti-zionist rants...

Ok...


More anti-zionist rants...

Uh huh...


This is exactly what the Zionists have always tries to do in the West. Curtail, ban, or make ineffectual any criticism of Israel or its policies. Anti-Semitism against Semites.

Get real. Everyone knows these days that anti-semitism means racism against jews, regardless of what the Oxford English Dictionary might define as "semite". There are other terms for racism against arabs and muslims in general.


Those Jews who oppose Israel are termed as self-hating Jews. These are all the type of rhetoric and deception which the Zionists do to further their agendas.

There are islamic schools in Britain run by hardline clerics that teach intolerance and bigotry to their pupils under the guise of religious freedom. It works both ways.


We are not talking about the past, we are talking about the present. The Israeli lobby AIPAC was one of the main sources of propaganda and pressure supporting the Bush administrations moves to invade Iraq. Almost all of the faulty propaganda, a hallmark of Zionist hysteria, was from Israeli Mossad and Zionist agents such as Paul Wolfowitz.

So Ahmad Chalabi was a Mossad agent? I guess so was Mohammed Atta? Funny that whenever I hear about investigations into the conduct of the Bush administration in Iraq, I see plenty of fingers pointed at Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, but Wolfowitz only gets a passing mention. Oh but Wolfowitz is jewish, or at least I assume so from his name, so that must mean it was his doing.


Ever since the creation of Israel, the Muslim world has been in constant war with the bold Western invasions of its lands. Coincidence, not so.

You were at war with the west long before Israel showed up, stop playing games.


God will indeed support the oppressed. Why do you think God blessed the early Jews, Christians, and Muslims with success against their enemies?

Because they mercilessly slaughtered their opponents in the delusional belief that some universal consciousness happened to side with them.


Sources.

Very glad you asked. I will leave this for another discussion because it could make a whole topic of its own, but my sources indicate the following stats for arab and Israeli deaths due to conflict between the two since 1948: 40 000 arabs, 22 000 Israelis killed. That includes all the Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese and other arabs that Israel has killed in various wars, including thousands of soldiers. After you take all those folks out of the equation, how many of the remainder are Palestinian, including militants? That's over a 60 year span. Meanwhile, Jordan alone killed 20 000 Palestinians in a single month. But who gives a shit about Jordan eh?


Which Israel will never allow, being an expansionist state founded on the land and bodies of Palestinian natives.

So you're saying that if Israel pulled back to the 1967 borders and allowed the Palestinians to build a state, you'd accept it? Or is expansionism not the problem, but rather existence altogether?


The Zionists are Europeans, there is little evidence they are ethnic Jews to begin with.

They could be Japanese for all I care. They bought land and settled it, then when they chose to seek independence, they had the armies of 5 much bigger, more established countries breathing down their asses. Tough luck, you can't just hit the restart button on this one.


Furthermore, their founders were atheists and they completely ignored the peace and security present in the Muslim-ruled Holy Land before their invasions.

1) Hajj al-Amin wasn't providing peace and security in the holy land.
2) Which specific founders of the jewish state were atheists, and what sources do you have to very this?


The Zionists will pay for their crimes, even if God Himself will make them pay.

Ok then, let god do her job, that's what she's there for after all.


The Muslims are indeed with their Palestinian brethren, we are with them whether they are starving, languishing in jails, being fired upon by Israeli soldiers, or crushed under Israeli tanks.

Eh, the Saudi princes spend more money on European hookers than they do on their Palestinian brethren. Good show of solidarity there. But in any case, if the Palestinians are given peace and quiet, no starving, no languishing or smooshing under tanks, I wonder who you'll be with then. Well I don't really wonder, I pretty much know, but it's nice to pretend that even you are capable of surprising me every now and then.


A age of injustice is finished, America is sinking and Israel along with it will fall. Oppression cannot sustain itself forever, and thus now the stage is set for the rise of Muslim ascendancy in their lands.

Reads like a good fantasy novel.


You will see, the optimism of the 1970s are upon us again.

In that case, god help you.


We will break our shackles, and take control of our lives. Those who wish for peace, must establish peace now, or otherwise be forced to make room for a more equitable order.

Whenever you're ready, feel free to make a decent offer.

Its disingenuous to pretend that the Palestinians were fighting the Jews because "they bought land and settled it"

Even in 1907 the Jews had formed militant groups to dispossess the Palestinians. It was their aim from the beginning and they have continued the policy of demolition and displacement ever since.

If you think a restart button will not be pressed on that eventually, you're living in a dreamworld, Palestinian relatives or not.

Its like saying me and my family can take over a part of Canada and call it Arsalania because we happen to have bought a considerable piece of land there. You dont just go into another country and start your own, even if you bought some of the real estate.

I definitely think there are Palestinians who fall into that category. There are Israelis who fit in there as well, but I'll call it as I see it regardless of how much that offends you.

You have NEVER indicated such a stance prior to this. Ok, here's the question: Which Israelis fall into this category? This should be interesting.



You can't pretend arabs haven't been trying to do precisely that to Israel since before it was even a country. Heck, you're completely blind to all the lands that have been conquered and ethnically cleansed by muslims continuing to this very day, why should I sympathize with your frustration? As for apartheid states, tell me how Israel fits the definition but Jordan doesn't?

The Muslims ruled the Holy Land for more than a thousand years, were the Jews ethnically cleansed? Now compare Muslim rule to Zionist rule. Millions of Palestinians were made internal refugees, millions forced to flee the violence.

Jordan is not an apartheid state, I don't know where you get this idea. It is a great tactic of Zionists to deflect blame to the Arabs, even if it is absurd. Jewish only settlements, neighborhoods, roads, and legal discrimination against Arabs in employment, buying homes, and immigration. Israel assumes the any Jew in the world has more right to live in its territory than Palestinians who have been living here for thousands of years, this is the problem.



Backward, outdated, closed-minded reasoning right there.


This is another trick of atheists, they use God when it suits them (i.e. creation of Israel) and than disregard God completely. God's favor is those who are steadfast and honest int heir obedience to him and who dela justly with others.



They should be severely punished, with the international community applying the pressure necessary to make sure it's done.


Exactly, yet this is never done. The Israeli war machine continually allows this. Shooting unarmed Palestinians, unfortunately, is extremely common in Israel's adventures into neighboring Arab lands, thousands killed in Gaza and Lebanon, etc.



It's called the right of self-determination, which the arabs foolishly tried to exterminate in 1948 and continued to resist in subsequent years. That's what got the Palestinians into their present mess.

The Palestinians were never asked if they wished their land to become colonized by European settlers. There, furthermore, was a general bias in all relations with European powers with Muslims (India, Egypt, Turkey, etc.). The Europeans created Israel in the heart of the Arab world without consulting the Arabs. Their lands were razed, they were evicted, they were murdered, the Europeans lost nothing. Whereas the Germans should have paid for the Holocaust, the Palestinians did, in land, lives, and their freedom.



Do the Serbs have a right of return to muslim Kosovo? Does Kosovo have no right to exist?


Naturally that would have to be settled with two consulting parties. Something which did not happen in the European Zionist colonization of Palestine.



America, Britain and Australia all qualify as valid answers.


As does Israel. Don't forget it was Israel which attacked Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor. Israel even attempted to attack Pakistan's nuclear reactor in Kahuta, but aborted the operation due to Indian fears of nuclear retaliation.



I have not heard a peep from the Israeli government regarding invading Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. I do hear India talking about the latter. As for Syria and Iran, they advocate war against Israel on a daily basis, so who cares if Israel rattles the sabre back at them?

Israeli propaganda against Saudi Arabia and Pakistan is well known. India is the number one importer of Israeli made arms and weapons, Israelis constantly man spy planes for the Indians on its border with Pakistan.

David Ben Gurion:
“The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. “This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. “Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. “It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans.”

-David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. Jewish Chronicle ,9 August 1967.




Give me a specific example of what Israel is doing in Afghanistan.


Israeli drones operating in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072304.html

Not to mention, prominent Zionists in the Bush administration such as Paul Wolfowitz (along with Christian Zionists Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld) spearheading the propaganda to support the invasion. Bush even stated one of the goals of pacifying Afghanistan and Iraq were to secure Israel.




India has every right to protect itself from Pakistan's naked aggression, good on Israel to help them out in this regard. In fact, thanks to Israel, India is about to gain possession of the world's first anti-terrorism satellite, and I hope they put it to good use.


This is another reason why I believe, without a doubt you are a Jewish Zionist (perhaps even an Israeli). No one but extremist Hindus or Zionists would support war against Pakistan, and unfettered support for India. Do you forget that Kashmir, like Palestine, is a Muslim region forcefully occupied by Non-Muslims powers (both of which support each other). Israeli meddling in Muslim affairs is universal.



In Canada, truth and justice are expressed and advocated with sensitivity and nuance.


Ofcourse Zionists would be happy of the silencing of criticism of Israel.



How come folks like Chomsky are able to do it without causing a stir? How come we just had "Israel Apartheid Week" in several cities across Canada but the government stood aside? Opposition to an ideology doesn't have to freak people out and drive members of our society into a panicked rage.


Ask the Zionist lobby. Why do they view Galloway as more of a threat to them than Chomsky? By the way, you realize that Chomsky himself is a Jew right.



Get real. Everyone knows these days that anti-semitism means racism against jews, regardless of what the Oxford English Dictionary might define as "semite". There are other terms for racism against arabs and muslims in general.

First denying Palestinian heritage, now the heritage of all Arabs. Must Israel and its Zionists deny the heritage and culture of others, to support themselves.



There are islamic schools in Britain run by hardline clerics that teach intolerance and bigotry to their pupils under the guise of religious freedom. It works both ways.

Examples please.



So Ahmad Chalabi was a Mossad agent? I guess so was Mohammed Atta?

I never stated such. These were CIA agents, it is well known 9/11 was a false flag. CIA, however, does work closely with Mossad, so you may be correct.



Funny that whenever I hear about investigations into the conduct of the Bush administration in Iraq, I see plenty of fingers pointed at Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, but Wolfowitz only gets a passing mention. Oh but Wolfowitz is jewish, or at least I assume so from his name, so that must mean it was his doing.

Wolfowitz was the main ideologue of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush is of little consequence, the real power belonged to the radical Republican Neocons from the American Enterprise Institute. Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz, all had prominent roles in this organization. All of these are Zionists,but Wolfowitz has particularly supported Israel's interests within the Bush administration, by supporting and encouraging the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.



You were at war with the west long before Israel showed up, stop playing games.

We were controlled by the West through colonial occupation for 200 years. In the 1900's we revolted against the Europeans, before withdrawing from our lands, they willfully stole our land and gave it to our enemies, Palestine to the Zionists, Kashmir to India, etc. Israel has been involved in the present conflict, because of the Zionists grip on American foreign policy and the ability to form American administrations to invade sovereign Muslim countries. Israel will never know peace until it destroys and pacified all the world' Muslims, but this is a difficult task as 25% of the humanity are Muslims. Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza, Somalia, and Afghanistan are the just the beginning. Israel has always wanted nothing less than the complete destruction of the Muslim world, and it has made this known openly.



Because they mercilessly slaughtered their opponents in the delusional belief that some universal consciousness happened to side with them.


So if, according to you, the Jews mercilessly slaughtered their opponents to obtain the Holy Land from the natives in the first place, what right does Israel have to re-conquer the land? If scripture is false, then what can you use to support your claim to the Holy Land?

You see the contradiction.



Very glad you asked. I will leave this for another discussion because it could make a whole topic of its own, but my sources indicate the following stats for arab and Israeli deaths due to conflict between the two since 1948: 40 000 arabs, 22 000 Israelis killed. That includes all the Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese and other arabs that Israel has killed in various wars, including thousands of soldiers. After you take all those folks out of the equation, how many of the remainder are Palestinian, including militants? That's over a 60 year span. Meanwhile, Jordan alone killed 20 000 Palestinians in a single month. But who gives a shit about Jordan eh?


What are your sources? I am assuming its IDF propaganda, as you have neglected to state it. It should be mentioned that not all the Arab states are allies of the Palestinians, Jordanian monarchy is an ally of Israel, it massacred Palestinians because of its support of Israel and its treachery of its people. Furthermore, the massacre of Palestinians in Lebanon were from Israeli allies, the Christian Menonite militas. Egypt and Syria have never engaged in full-scale massacre of their countrymen. Though Egypt is at fault for supporting and being a part to the Israeli headed blockade of Gaza.



So you're saying that if Israel pulled back to the 1967 borders and allowed the Palestinians to build a state, you'd accept it? Or is expansionism not the problem, but rather existence altogether?

Peace. Justice. Fairness. I am not the one who has the right to judge on behalf of the Palestinians, it is their place. Thus, if Israel stops occupying Palestinian territories, dismantles its illegal settlements, demolishes the Apartheid wall, allowed Palestinian refugees to return to their homes, and grants Palestinians full sovereignty (water, mineral, military, airspace, naval, and political rights), there is NO way why peace cannot be achieved.

Now I ask you, considering Israel's denial of these points, do you think Israel truly even desires peace?



They could be Japanese for all I care. They bought land and settled it, then when they chose to seek independence, they had the armies of 5 much bigger, more established countries breathing down their asses. Tough luck, you can't just hit the restart button on this one.

They evicted the natives by terror and bombings (remember Baruch Goldstein). They immigrated to Arab land without the consent of the Arabs, and were given land by the British which was currently occupied by the Palestinians. The Israelis set ablaze the Holy Land, and have continued to oppress its people for 60 years, even making the Crusades MILD in comparison. Immigrants do not have the right to seize a native people's lands without their consent. Just as the American settlers in America had no right to even one inch of Native American land, or the British to one inch of Indian land, or the South Africans of one inch of African land, or the Australians of one inch of Aboriginal land. Israel has NO RIGHT to occupy another people's lands against their wishes. The Israelis should live in peace with the Palestinians, or otherwise plan to immigrate back to Germany and Europe.




1) Hajj al-Amin wasn't providing peace and security in the holy land.
2) Which specific founders of the jewish state were atheists, and what sources do you have to very this?

"He [Chaim Maccoby] spoke out ever more vehemently against Herzl, the self-confessed atheist, and his followers, refusing to preach at one federation synagogue because it dared to host a branch of the Zionist Federation." Geoffrey Alderman, 'Maccoby, Chaim Zundel (1858–1916)', Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 (accessed 2 May 2008).


Professor Benjamin Cohen of Tel Aviv University penned a statement on June 6, 1982, saying:
I am writing to you while listening to a transistor that has just announced that ‘we’ are in the process of ‘realizing our objectives’ in Lebanon: to insure ‘peace’ for the residents of Galilee. These lies worthy of Goebbels make me mad. It is clear that this savage war, more barbaric than any of those preceding it, has nothing to do with the attempt in London or the security of Galilee ... Jews, sons of Abraham ... Jews, victims themselves of so much cruelty, how can they become so cruel? ... The greatest success of Zionism is the ‘dejudaisation’ of the Jews.
“Professor Leibowitz calls Israeli politics in Lebanon Judeo-Nazi” Yediot Aharonoth, July 2, 1982

In Herzl's utopian novel, Altneuland, which depicts an imaginary journey to the new state, as well as in the Zionist writings of Max Nordau (a Zionist who even opposed the Sabbath), who did not forsake his militant atheism upon his conversion to Zionism, the recurrent theme is the integration of the Jew into Western civilization. Whereas he was barred from entrance to this world through emancipation and tolerance, he will enter it through the new gate: full participation founded not on a personal justice but on a national, sovereign equality.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/r/rubinstein-herzl.html



Eh, the Saudi princes spend more money on European hookers than they do on their Palestinian brethren. Good show of solidarity there. But in any case, if the Palestinians are given peace and quiet, no starving, no languishing or smooshing under tanks, I wonder who you'll be with then. Well I don't really wonder, I pretty much know, but it's nice to pretend that even you are capable of surprising me every now and then.


The Saudis are puppets established by the British and the French. The Muslim mind and spirit is not isolated to such individuals. It will come form the masses. Israel has, unintentionally, sparked the flame back into the Muslim mind. The Muslim would is on its ascent into greatness, which will equally be met with the descent of both America and Israel. As a matter of fact, the idea of containing 1.7 human beings is political, economic, and social slavery was an ill-conceived idea destined to fail. The Zionists should return back to Europe, they have no future in the Middle East.

Galloway is the white-faced front of the large extreme segment of the Muslim population in Britain. France may have the largest Muslim population in Europe, but the Muslims of England are the most extreme and dangerous. To be more specific, there are more extremists among British Muslims than in any other country in Europe. Unfortunately I don't only know about this through reading the news. A Muslim coworker of mine came back from a visit of his relatives in Britain and told me "shit, it's REALLY bad in there. Lots of extremists". When a Muslim guy tells THAT to a JEW (me), that's when you know things are pretty bad.

As I said, Galloway is the white face of this extreme force. He's a real danger to Britain's national security, and other countries' too. Thank goodness he wasn't allowed into Canada. Let him preach his garbage from the internet, his show on Press TV, and his frequent much-loved appearances on al-Jazeera.

Morality without God is fiction. Just as the silly notion that God doesn't exist is fiction. What possible encouragement can you give to Atheists to respect the rights of others, if they believe this is the only life they have? Moral decadence in the West is related to the disproportionately high ratio of Atheism, and its cousin secularism, in society.

You know what? You're right!

Well that's it then.

I shall now go out and run down anyone who steps in front of me. This will be after I slaughter my children for waking me up at night and preventing me from getting the sleep I need and deserve. When I get back from my little jaunt, I shall strip my husband of all his belongings, tie him up and dump him in the middle lane of the closest freeway, denying his right to life. Why? Because I am an atheist and apparently have zero morals, since morality without God is a work of fiction.

On my way back, I may just stop off at an old's people home and make them watch as I dump all their medicine down the drain.. why? Well they are old and are taking up valuable space and funds in their medical care.. then possibly stop off at the local hospital, go up to the intensive care ward and turn off all the life support systems.. Then I'll do a big poo in the middle of the surgical wing and go home and enjoy a nice quiet sleep.

Now, if I were a theist, I would know the above is wrong. But as an atheist living in a secular society.. well.. We have no morals. The sky's the limit my friend!

Now where's my stick? I need to start bludgeoning my children!

-------------------------------------------------

Now back to the thread in question..



People are free to say anything they want in Canada, I'm living proof. The Kaders (mother and sisters), whom had father and son in Al Queda, are able to say openly they liked how many people got killed in sept 11, that the victims deserved it, etc.

We don't need a foreign politician fucking with us, as I stated, we've had that before and that why though this might seem unusual, it does make perfect sense if you understand our history.

If people could say anything they wanted in Canada, then he wouldn't be banned from entering the country. Obviously something is not quite right there, wouldn't you say?

If people could say anything they wanted in Canada, then he wouldn't be banned from entering the country. Obviously something is not quite right there, wouldn't you say?

No law is absolute ((c) Jean-Luc Picard). Why are you surprised? Anyway, this isn't just about him talking. There are plenty of people who say much worse things than what he says. It's about his activities. He's gone beyond just saying disgusting things, he's actually done disgusting things. Things which are illegal under Canadian law. You know, stuff like providing financial (and other type of) assistance to organizations designated as terrorist entities in Canada. That's the same like when Snoop Dogg can't get access to some countries because of his drug and violence related incidents.

Ah yes, bringing voluntary donations to a devestated piece of land to rebuild is the same as drug abuse and violence. Id hate to see what you would consider a good samaritan.

The donations were not to HAMAS, but to a donation box for "Palestine". The poor dupes who paid up thought they are donating cash for blankets and food. Those who actually knew where the money will go have violated the law and if a proof can be established then they also will go to jail. This baboon (Galloway) brought money, and the source is irrelevant, and knowingly gave it to a terrorist organization banned in most countries. Then he boasted about it. It's illegal to do what he did, and it's immoral to boast about it. The best part is that he knew very well what the money will be used for, which is what makes him an extra special kind of scum. If he wanted to bring money to the "poor Palestinians" he could have given that money to UN agencies, or to non-HAMAS "Palestinian" organizations. But no, he gave it to HAMAS - and that was very calculated on his part.

So he did break the law, and now he is reaping the consequences. Not harsh enough, I'd say. He should be in jail.

What was the money used for?

The donations were not to HAMAS, but to a donation box for "Palestine". The poor dupes who paid up thought they are donating cash for blankets and food. Those who actually knew where the money will go have violated the law and if a proof can be established then they also will go to jail. This baboon (Galloway) brought money, and the source is irrelevant, and knowingly gave it to a terrorist organization banned in most countries. Then he boasted about it. It's illegal to do what he did, and it's immoral to boast about it. The best part is that he knew very well what the money will be used for, which is what makes him an extra special kind of scum. If he wanted to bring money to the "poor Palestinians" he could have given that money to UN agencies, or to non-HAMAS "Palestinian" organizations. But no, he gave it to HAMAS - and that was very calculated on his part.

So he did break the law, and now he is reaping the consequences. Not harsh enough, I'd say. He should be in jail.

Ah yes, cos Hamas use the money not to rebuild but to build bombs. Total BS. Hamas is the only elected authority of the Palestinians. Abbas' time is up, hes nothing anymore. The Palestinian people trusted Hamas and voted for them. The UN agencies do not provide full aid out of fear of being bombed and or shot by Israel. At the moment Hamas is the only group out there rebuilding Gaza and giving people food and shelter. And anyone that donated agrees with Galloway. Its funny how the anti-Galloway people have tried for ages to get something to stick to him, with no avail :cool: Go Galloway!

Hamas is the only elected authority of the Palestinians. Abbas' time is up, hes nothing anymore.

Democracy is not one moment in time. It is continuous. HAMAS got a majority of a vote a few years ago. Does that mean they're democratic? Hardly. They are supposed to be subjects of the President of the PA. They don't even bother recognizing him. Not only that, they have mounted a violent bloody coup against the PA's authority. They are now not subject to the PA. So, elected or not, HAMAS is a bunch of terrorist thugs who are doing Iran and Hizballah's bidding, as opposed to "Palestinian" bidding. One day of supposed democracy does not legitimize the 99.9% of their illegal and undemocratic activities (such as attempted genocide of Jews.)

There are plenty organizations in Aza that provide help. They're just scared that HAMAS terrorists will steal their supplies, as usual, or will store rockets in their warehouses again, or will brand them Zionist agents (ohhh why aren't you working with US? You must be Mossad agents! Die!) so the scope of their work is reduced. HAMAS is a terrorist entity like the Taliban. It belongs in hell, not on the receiving end of gullible Muslims' donations who only want to help feed and clothe everyday "Palestinians."

Democracy is not one moment in time. It is continuous. HAMAS got a majority of a vote a few years ago. Does that mean they're democratic? Hardly. They are supposed to be subjects of the President of the PA. They don't even bother recognizing him. Not only that, they have mounted a violent bloody coup against the PA's authority. They are now not subject to the PA. So, elected or not, HAMAS is a bunch of terrorist thugs who are doing Iran and Hizballah's bidding, as opposed to "Palestinian" bidding. One day of supposed democracy does not legitimize the 99.9% of their illegal and undemocratic activities (such as attempted genocide of Jews.)

There are plenty organizations in Aza that provide help. They're just scared that HAMAS terrorists will steal their supplies, as usual, or will store rockets in their warehouses again, or will brand them Zionist agents (ohhh why aren't you working with US? You must be Mossad agents! Die!) so the scope of their work is reduced. HAMAS is a terrorist entity like the Taliban. It belongs in hell, not on the receiving end of gullible Muslims' donations who only want to help feed and clothe everyday "Palestinians."

Your "concern" for "Palestinians" is "overwhelming".

My concern for this douchebag nazi fuck Galloway reaching my home, making it less safe for me to be here by riling up the most extreme elements here is indeed overwhelming.

Democracy is not one moment in time. It is continuous. HAMAS got a majority of a vote a few years ago. Does that mean they're democratic? Hardly. They are supposed to be subjects of the President of the PA. They don't even bother recognizing him. Not only that, they have mounted a violent bloody coup against the PA's authority. They are now not subject to the PA. So, elected or not, HAMAS is a bunch of terrorist thugs who are doing Iran and Hizballah's bidding, as opposed to "Palestinian" bidding. One day of supposed democracy does not legitimize the 99.9% of their illegal and undemocratic activities (such as attempted genocide of Jews.)

There are plenty organizations in Aza that provide help. They're just scared that HAMAS terrorists will steal their supplies, as usual, or will store rockets in their warehouses again, or will brand them Zionist agents (ohhh why aren't you working with US? You must be Mossad agents! Die!) so the scope of their work is reduced. HAMAS is a terrorist entity like the Taliban. It belongs in hell, not on the receiving end of gullible Muslims' donations who only want to help feed and clothe everyday "Palestinians."

Hamas mounting a violent bloody coup? Thats funny! Especially considering how its widely known now that after Hamas was elected, the USA, Israel and Fatah joined together to try to undermine and take out Hamas. Fortunately, that didnt work and Hamas rightfully made sure everyone knew. Abbas' term is up, has been up for a long time. He's nothing anymore. At the moment, Hamas is the closest thing to a real government and therefore they take care of their people. Un is too afraid of getting killed and with the blockade there isnt much help anyway. So what Galloway did was heroic.

My concern for this douchebag nazi fuck Galloway reaching my home, making it less safe for me to be here by riling up the most extreme elements here is indeed overwhelming.

Galloway doesnt rile up extremists. He says the things that your average politician wouldnt. Thats what makes him a hero for the worldwide anti-war movement.

Arsalan - your choice of "hero" is confused. You're either confused or a nazi yourself. Anyway, my discussion with you is over. We won't get anywhere further with you.

Whatever you say pothead

puff puff

Uh, what's wrong with admiring Arafat?

You have NEVER indicated such a stance prior to this. Ok, here's the question: Which Israelis fall into this category? This should be interesting.

I'm pretty sure I've criticized some of Israel's excesses in the past, but you personally never bothered to ask me about it. As for which Israelis falling into that category, I'm sure you've seen them on the news already. The kinds of guys who tie children to their vehicles to stop Palestinians from throwing rocks at them, crazy ultra orthodox West Bank settlers who go down into the villages and pick fights, people like that. Mind you, I don't think I called anyone "sub-human", that's a label you came up with on your own.


The Muslims ruled the Holy Land for more than a thousand years, were the Jews ethnically cleansed?

No, there were a few pogroms here and there, but by and large the jews accepted their second class status and were respected as such.


Now compare Muslim rule to Zionist rule. Millions of Palestinians were made internal refugees, millions forced to flee the violence.

No, very few of them were forced out at gunpoint, most of them left due to fear and panic at the exaggerated tales they were being told. After the fighting ended they weren't allowed back, but the ones who stayed behind are doing reasonably well, especially compared to arabs in neighbouring countries.


Jordan is not an apartheid state, I don't know where you get this idea.

Let's see, Palestinians comprise a majority of Jordan's population, but most of them are denied citizenship and are treated as foreigners. Plus Jordan has physically suppressed them for decades and killed tens of thousands of them. Maybe you can explain how that doesn't qualify.


The Palestinians were never asked if they wished their land to become colonized by European settlers.

Then why did they sell it?


Naturally that would have to be settled with two consulting parties. Something which did not happen in the European Zionist colonization of Palestine.

Israel accepted every single deal that was put forward to them by UN, in 1947 and afterwards (the partition plan you guys love to cite is only one of many). They weren't the party that chose to miss their consultation appointment.


Israeli propaganda against Saudi Arabia and Pakistan is well known. India is the number one importer of Israeli made arms and weapons, Israelis constantly man spy planes for the Indians on its border with Pakistan.

David Ben Gurion:
“The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. “This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. “Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. “It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans.”

-David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. Jewish Chronicle ,9 August 1967.

I looked into it, and apparently there was no edition of "Jewish Chronicle" published on that date. In fact, in 1967 there was no "Jewish Chronicle", period. There was, however, a "London Jewish Chronicle", also not published on that date. It's easy for you to find all these damning quotes supposedly implicating zionists in every conspiracy known to man, with "official sources" to back them up- I can see you're finding them on Pakistani propaganda sites, great choice for info. Perhaps you'd like to feed us some quotations from the Elders as filler material?


Israeli drones operating in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072304.html

Operated by whom? If a Pakistani drives a Volvo packed with explosives into an Indian parade, would you blame it on Sweden?


Do you forget that Kashmir, like Palestine, is a Muslim region forcefully occupied by Non-Muslims powers (both of which support each other). Israeli meddling in Muslim affairs is universal.

I'll bet Pakistan is occupying plenty of Hindu land too. You complain about Israeli drones being purchased by India, I don't see you complaining that Russian weapons are going to Pakistani terrorists. If Pakistan were to recognize Israel like Turkey does, I'm sure Israel would be happy to sell them some drones too.


I never stated such. These were CIA agents, it is well known 9/11 was a false flag.

Of course, in Pakistan not only is it well known that 9/11 was a false flag operation, but that George W. Bush is in fact Satan himself, and Donald Rumsfeld is the guy who polishes the floors in Satan's throne room down in hell. Honestly, if you're whacked out enough to buy into the 9/11 conspiracy crap, on top of citing quotes from non-existent articles as fact, I'm just about done wasting my time with you.


What are your sources? I am assuming its IDF propaganda, as you have neglected to state it.

Wall Street Journal, among others. I'm trying to find some UN sources but don't have much time to look into it at present. I'm just scratching the surface though, if you want to compare what Israel has done to the Palestinians with what has been done to them in neighbouring arab countries by sheer numbers, you'll lose in a heartbeat.


It should be mentioned that not all the Arab states are allies of the Palestinians

Then why were you talking about muslim unity, enthusiasm for war, etc. in your previous post?


Jordanian monarchy is an ally of Israel, it massacred Palestinians because of its support of Israel and its treachery of its people. Furthermore, the massacre of Palestinians in Lebanon were from Israeli allies, the Christian Menonite militas.

So you're basically admitting that it wasn't Israelis that killed all those Palestinians, but rather arabs who had their own interests at heart.


Egypt and Syria have never engaged in full-scale massacre of their countrymen.

Syria has committed plenty of massacres in Lebanon, don't kid yourself.


Now I ask you, considering Israel's denial of these points, do you think Israel truly even desires peace?

I think this is a good time to remind you that the discussion is actually supposed to be about Galloway.


They evicted the natives by terror and bombings (remember Baruch Goldstein).

Yeah I remember Baruch Goldstein, do you? Apparently he was the first human being to ever achieve time travel, managing to have committed a massacre in 1948 despite only having been born 8 years later. Either that or you're just grasping at straws now.


They immigrated to Arab land without the consent of the Arabs

They had the consent of the arabs who sold them that land. There were no conditions on who gets to go there other than whoever the Ottomans and later British cared to let in. Tough break.


"He [Chaim Maccoby] spoke out ever more vehemently against Herzl, the self-confessed atheist, and his followers, refusing to preach at one federation synagogue because it dared to host a branch of the Zionist Federation." Geoffrey Alderman, 'Maccoby, Chaim Zundel (1858–1916)', Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 (accessed 2 May 2008).

Herzl also advocated accepting a zionist state in Uganda instead of Palestine. It wasn't the atheists who overruled him on that one, I can tell you that much.


Israel has, unintentionally, sparked the flame back into the Muslim mind. The Muslim would is on its ascent into greatness, which will equally be met with the descent of both America and Israel.

You're running out of oil. What are you going to sell afterwards? Hate?

And you guys ahve moved away from Galloway. Fact of the matter is that Galloway shouldnt have been banned. Now back to that please.

I'm pretty sure I've criticized some of Israel's excesses in the past, but you personally never bothered to ask me about it.

Now's your chance.


As for which Israelis falling into that category, I'm sure you've seen them on the news already. The kinds of guys who tie children to their vehicles to stop Palestinians from throwing rocks at them, crazy ultra orthodox West Bank settlers who go down into the villages and pick fights, people like that.

OK. What about Israeli soldiers bombing Gaza neighborhoods or demolishing the homes of Palestinians?



Mind you, I don't think I called anyone "sub-human", that's a label you came up with on your own.

Calling people savages is de-humanizing them.




No, there were a few pogroms here and there, but by and large the jews accepted their second class status and were respected as such.

Examples of the pogroms by Muslims against Jews? I expect sources also. Naturally this must apply before British occupation.



No, very few of them were forced out at gunpoint, most of them left due to fear and panic at the exaggerated tales they were being told.

Jenin was one such example, where the entire community of Arabs was ethnically cleansed. There are numerous others.



After the fighting ended they weren't allowed back, but the ones who stayed behind are doing reasonably well,

You mean like those in gaza. You don't actually believe this do you?



especially compared to arabs in neighbouring countries.

Your opinion of Arabs is severely prejudiced and warped. Can you logically compare the Syrians, for one, economically to the Palestinians, for example?




Let's see, Palestinians comprise a majority of Jordan's population, but most of them are denied citizenship and are treated as foreigners. Plus Jordan has physically suppressed them for decades and killed tens of thousands of them. Maybe you can explain how that doesn't qualify.

They are also the only Arab country to be an ally of Israel. Is it not ironic that they treat Palestinians, just as the Israelis do?




Then why did they sell it?


The British sold it, not the Palestinian. The land never belonged to the British. Without the European colonists, the Zionist takeover of Palestine would have been impossible.



Israel accepted every single deal that was put forward to them by UN, in 1947 and afterwards (the partition plan you guys love to cite is only one of many). They weren't the party that chose to miss their consultation appointment.

Israel stated numerous times in the past decades, they didn't recognize a Palestinian state and there is no party to negotiate with. Israel renegaded of several Arab offers, because Israel did not wish for the establishment of an independent Palestinian state with right of return of refugees, military independence, economic independence, and control of its own borders, water, electricity, etc. Israel always wanted a crippled Palestinian state dependent on it.





I looked into it, and apparently there was no edition of "Jewish Chronicle" published on that date. In fact, in 1967 there was no "Jewish Chronicle", period. There was, however, a "London Jewish Chronicle", also not published on that date. It's easy for you to find all these damning quotes supposedly implicating zionists in every conspiracy known to man, with "official sources" to back them up- I can see you're finding them on Pakistani propaganda sites, great choice for info. Perhaps you'd like to feed us some quotations from the Elders as filler material?

Some of my own research revealed this:


Founded in 1841, The Jewish Chronicle is the oldest continuously published Jewish newspaper in the world. A force for change, a forum for debate and a shaper of Jewish identity, it has played a central part in the development of modern Anglo-Jewry. More than just a mirror of Anglo-Jewish mores, registering waves of immigration and social change, The Jewish Chronicle has been an active player in historical events. Its editors have intervened decisively in communal history and debated with British statesmen. No historian can understand the inner life of British Jews without looking at the social reports, the sports column, the arts and cultural coverage and the advertising that the paper has carried. This book, written by a noted historian of Jewish social affairs, gives an insight into the working of a newspaper, the struggles between editors and directors, and the boardroom politics. It is the story of a publishing adventure that became an institution and helped to shape the destiny of an entire community.

http://books.google.com/books?id=SqXUUxSv4QMC&dq=Jewish+Chronicle++Ben+Gurion&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0

Naturally I have no access at all to any editions of the Jewish Chronicle. It seems the internet doesn't have much information either. Rather than assume it is false, I have read this numerous times in books as old the 1970's, I will judge this by previous statements made by David Ben Gurion and his hatred for Arabs and Muslims, thus we left without only a small doubt to its authenticity. I will research it some more and post more on it when I find more information. From my own research, this has been the Israeli policy toward Pakistan all along, isolation, propaganda, and military support for India.



Operated by whom? If a Pakistani drives a Volvo packed with explosives into an Indian parade, would you blame it on Sweden?

Israeli spy drones, operated by Israeli personnel, shot in Pakistani territory. Pakistani government statement.



I'll bet Pakistan is occupying plenty of Hindu land too.

Examples?



You complain about Israeli drones being purchased by India, I don't see you complaining that Russian weapons are going to Pakistani terrorists. If Pakistan were to recognize Israel like Turkey does, I'm sure Israel would be happy to sell them some drones too.

Israel has been conspiring with the PKK in Iraq, and Turkey knows this full well. Being an ally of Israel is not protection enough from its machinations. Israel will support India over Pakistan, regardless of what Pakistan may do. There is no interest for Pakistan to recognize the colonial state of Israel. Furthermore, Pakistan does not need spy drones from Israel, it can manufacture its own. This point was brought up to show that Israel aims to weaken Muslim countries throughout the world, by funding their enemies against them. Also, Russia is no friend of Pakistan either.



Of course, in Pakistan not only is it well known that 9/11 was a false flag operation,

9/11 is a false flag, and you don't have to be Pakistani to believe so. Many people in the US believe it is a false flag too. How can commercial airliners stay off course from its destination for several hours, without air traffic control forcibly landing these aircraft? Anyone who is aware of the air defense capabilities of the US would laugh at such a notion. The US allowed 9/11 to happen to further its goals, just as Hitler used the Reichstag burning to futher his goal.



but that George W. Bush is in fact Satan himself, and Donald Rumsfeld is the guy who polishes the floors in Satan's throne room down in hell. Honestly, if you're whacked out enough to buy into the 9/11 conspiracy crap, on top of citing quotes from non-existent articles as fact,

Where did you pull this out from? Is this what Israeli newspapers teach you that Muslims believe? If you believe everything governments tell you, you would fit well in Nazi Germany, that's all i have to say.



I'm just about done wasting my time with you.


The feeling is mutual. You cannot debate my points on their validity, and instead issue personal attacks. it's a famous Zionist trick to vilify one's enemies, introduced by the Nazis, perfect under the Zionists.



Wall Street Journal, among others. I'm trying to find some UN sources but don't have much time to look into it at present. I'm just scratching the surface though, if you want to compare what Israel has done to the Palestinians with what has been done to them in neighbouring arab countries by sheer numbers, you'll lose in a heartbeat.


The colonial mentality always attempts to deflect blame to others. The Arabs have usually supported the Palestinians, though recently have been forced by Western powers, esp US, not to interfere. The Palestinians still hope for their liberation by Arab hands, they still call themselves part of the Arab word. These feelings, which have lasted thousands of years, don't die so easily, no matter how Muslim Israel wishes them to.



Syria has committed plenty of massacres in Lebanon, don't kid yourself.


Israeli propaganda. Don't forget Sabra and Shatila, in which Ariel Sharon was fully involved. Syria has always wanted the best for Lebanon, only when Syrian forces left could Israel invade Lebanon. Don't you see, Syria was the only think holding back the invasion.




Yeah I remember Baruch Goldstein, do you? Apparently he was the first human being to ever achieve time travel, managing to have committed a massacre in 1948 despite only having been born 8 years later. Either that or you're just grasping at straws now.


If you think the massacres ended by 1948, you are deceiving yourself? You have a tendency to completely misunderstand my statements. Never did I mention 1948 concerning Baruch Goldstein. Neither have I said he is the only one, just the most famous. He is a hero in Israel.




They had the consent of the arabs who sold them that land. There were no conditions on who gets to go there other than whoever the Ottomans and later British cared to let in. Tough break.

The British had no right to sell Palestinian land. Furthermore, I don't know why you blame the Turks, they had nothing to do with it. This is just a game to play Muslims against each other which Europeans, including Israelis, always play. Colonial occupation is an injustice and true justice shall be attained.




Herzl also advocated accepting a zionist state in Uganda instead of Palestine. It wasn't the atheists who overruled him on that one, I can tell you that much.

Uganda, North Pole, the Moon. Just get out of Palestine.



You're running out of oil. What are you going to sell afterwards? Hate?

Your education is severely limited. the Muslim world has tremendous potential, and Khaleeji oil will last another 100 years, so don't expect that to run out any time soon. If you believe the Muslim world gains its ascendancy through material success, you are completely wrong. God's hand elevated the Muslims, and wherever they went, God is with them. That is why Israel will not last, because God already told the Muslims the Jews would reconquer the Holy Land and oppress the Muslims. Half the promise has already come, now the other half must come. The return of Hazrat Isa (Jesus) and the return of the Holy Land to tis rightful owners. Inshallah.

I'm through talking to you, you are a hateful being who considers Arabs and Muslims as savages and subhuman. Furthermore, you cannot understand that criticism of Israel is not hatred of Jews, but of atheist Zionists. There are Jews who oppose Zionists, they are the true Jews who follow their scripture. I have nothing more to talk with you about.

Bork and Nazi here are having a competition who has more patience to sift through, tag, and answer the other's reply.

Heard of Mork and Mindy?
Well this is Bork and Dimindy.

Bork and Nazi here are having a competition who has more patience to sift through, tag, and answer the other's reply.

Naturally, Zionists compare all criticism of Israel to anti-semitism and Nazism. Does it not strike them that it was the Germans who massacred them, and then they come to the Holy Land to massacre the Palestinians in exactly the same way? Zionism = Nazism.

Heard of Mork and Mindy?
Well this is Bork and Dimindy.

Damn you!

Made me choke on my coffee.:bawl:

, and then they come to the Holy Land to massacre the Palestinians in exactly the same way?

No, they didn't. And how odd and strange that, for all your other more rational posts in the past few days, you'd even say such a thing. I had thought that you actually might be one of the more reasonable Muslims here, but I guess I was wrong.

Baron Max

Galloway is a shinning light in darkness..

dam i didnt see thsi thread before.

And DH, there are other dritish MPs like tony benn who tell it how ti is also.

the way King George humiliated that micky mouse senate committee was truely a work of art....

and Q he does like hamas, or saddam or any of it he is trying to highlight the bs in western politics.. Just cos he doesnt like the west and israeli hypocricy doesnt eman he is mates with Hamas and Saddam..

As for Hassan Nassrallah, the guy shoudl that with the right strategy, discipline and organisation you can defeat (or at least grind to a halt) one of the most powerfull killing machines on earth (the IDF)

I would trust Galloway more than alomost all the other MP's in the british parliament (besides people like tony benn)

Galloway tells it how it is thats why he was banned from Egypt too.

hE IS ALSO CHALLENGIGN THE BRITISH AURTHORITIES TO PROSECUTE HIM FOR HIS MEETING WITH hAMAS..

Of course they wont prosecute him, cos they dotn dare get humiliated like the US senate commitee did!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUHDrMLKGA&feature=channel_page

Galloway is the best, he puts so-called 'Muslim', 'Arab' leaders to shame. If they had as much courage as him, we would be far better off than we are today.

No, they didn't. And how odd and strange that, for all your other more rational posts in the past few days, you'd even say such a thing. I had thought that you actually might be one of the more reasonable Muslims here, but I guess I was wrong.

Baron Max

Get familiar with Zochrot


The Zionist collective memory exists in both our cultural and physical landscape, yet the heavy price paid by the Palestinians -- in lives, in the destruction of hundreds of villages, and in the continuing plight of the Palestinian refugees -- receives little public recognition.

Zochrot works to make the history of the Nakba accessible to the Israeli public so as to engage Jews and Palestinians in an open recounting of our painful common history. We hope that by bringing the Nakba into Hebrew, the language spoken by the Jewish majority in Israel, we can make a qualitative change in the political discourse of this region. Acknowledging the past is the first step in taking responsibility for its consequences. This must include equal rights for all the peoples of this land, including the right of Palestinians to return to their homes.

http://www.nakbainhebrew.org/index.php?lang=english

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUHDrMLKGA&feature=channel_page

Galloway is the best, he puts so-called 'Muslim', 'Arab' leaders to shame. If they had as much courage as him, we would be far better off than we are today.


agreed DH!!!

Arsalan - your choice of "hero" is confused. You're either confused or a nazi yourself. Anyway, my discussion with you is over. We won't get anywhere further with you.


hey otheadp, are you syaing that galloway is a Nazis???

if so why???

Galloway at Columbia university


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkgMBqJ3deY

apart from this weekend and maybe next ddepending on the situation over the other side of the ond (he is touring over there) he is on talksport radio every friday from 10pm -1am and saturdays too....

the ebst radio show ever

mind you my wife does get jealous as i would rather spend my night listening to George then her

Some of my own research revealed this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=SqXUUxSv4QMC&dq=Jewish+Chronicle++Ben+Gurion&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0

Naturally I have no access at all to any editions of the Jewish Chronicle. It seems the internet doesn't have much information either. Rather than assume it is false, I have read this numerous times in books as old the 1970's, I will judge this by previous statements made by David Ben Gurion and his hatred for Arabs and Muslims, thus we left without only a small doubt to its authenticity. I will research it some more and post more on it when I find more information. From my own research, this has been the Israeli policy toward Pakistan all along, isolation, propaganda, and military support for India.

I already looked into it. http://www.thejc.com. You can browse their archives online going all the way back to 1841. I was able to download full pdf's of the editions from Friday August 4, 1967 and Friday August 11, 1967. Now since I'm not willing to pay for the service, the pdf's are scrambled in such a way that you only get a clear view of them for a split second when zooming in or out, but that's not important because I'm not actually looking for the full contents within.

The evidence is in plain sight for you to see: a weekly publication, having been published on both Friday August 4 and Friday August 11, cannot have been published on Wednesday August 9. Ergo you are using a nonexistent quote attributed to a nonexistent publication, when the actual origins lie in the same region of Pakistan in which the Taliban has now declared its official headquarters. Well done Detective Holmes, I wonder how many of your other quotes were researched with such veracity.

On a side note, while searching for actual, real quotes from David Ben Gurion regarding Pakistan, I found several indicating his desire to seek their friendship.


Furthermore, Pakistan does not need spy drones from Israel, it can manufacture its own.

Which Pakistani company makes 'em? The same ones that made the B-2 stealth bomber?


9/11 is a false flag, and you don't have to be Pakistani to believe so. Many people in the US believe it is a false flag too.

Just thought this statement should be highlighted, so everyone can see how "rational" your perspective really is.


Israeli propaganda. Don't forget Sabra and Shatila, in which Ariel Sharon was fully involved.

So Sharon ordered the Lebanese militias to target Palestinian women and kids instead of Arafat's fighters?


Syria has always wanted the best for Lebanon, only when Syrian forces left could Israel invade Lebanon. Don't you see, Syria was the only think holding back the invasion.

Hezbollah not attacking Israel was the only thing holding back the invasion.


Your education is severely limited. the Muslim world has tremendous potential, and Khaleeji oil will last another 100 years, so don't expect that to run out any time soon.

The days of sticking a pole in the ground, watching the oil gush out and then calling in some foreign company to come drill it for you are coming to a close. You won't run out of oil anytime soon, but you sure won't be pumping it out at present rates for much longer. Ultimately you will have to do what Alberta has done, and make actual investments in technology and infrastructure in order to keep cranking out oil, and that still won't keep you floating like you were back in the good times.


If you believe the Muslim world gains its ascendancy through material success, you are completely wrong. God's hand elevated the Muslims, and wherever they went, God is with them. That is why Israel will not last, because God already told the Muslims the Jews would reconquer the Holy Land and oppress the Muslims. Half the promise has already come, now the other half must come. The return of Hazrat Isa (Jesus) and the return of the Holy Land to tis rightful owners. Inshallah.

*Yawn* Yeah yeah we've been hearing that shit forever. Same nonsense Israel's ultra orthodox jews talk about all the time, that they can fuck up all they want and god will still come in at the end to save the day.


Bork and Nazi here are having a competition who has more patience to sift through, tag, and answer the other's reply.

In that case I declare DiamondHearts the winner, I have now officially run out of patience.

Galloway speaks to a Nazi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnncPbP9JrE

George Galloway speaks to another English racist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyNyCPu1iS4&feature=related

George Galloway Vs US intelligence officer Bob Ayres:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1-FBWwFXkw&feature=related

George Galloway Savages SKY NEWS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw&feature=related

George Galloway speaks to a Zionist - PART 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQYMoDz7xpo&feature=related

George Galloway speaks to a Zionist - PART 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B46ZpE_O1lQ&feature=related

George Galloway Vs David Frum On Bush trip to Israel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3lnaeCKeA4&feature=related

George Galloway + Accusation of Anti-Semitism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO68iEIfPfw&feature=related

Galloway is a true hero among politicians.

Israel has always propagated the destruction of strong Muslim governments, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Only self-delusioned Zionists would claim that this is not the case, but be assured deep down they wish the destruction of Muslims too. The hostility of the Zionists to Islam is legendary. Don't forget the Obsession movie distributed in the US, was developed by a Jewish organization which was largely tied to Israel, Aish Ha Torah.

In this case, we are surprised by the courage shown by George Galloway in combating the Zionist control over Western policy in the Muslim world. It is now time for all honest, true people to support Galloway and show that we will no longer be slaves of the Zionist plot to destroy and humiliate the Muslim world any longer. Israel is the number one obstacle in the Middle East. Galloway is the hero of not only the Palestinians, religious Jews who oppose Zionism, Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, but of the West as well. He represents the highest achievement of Western civilization, the humanistic and enlightened side which strives for truth. We need more people like him, and no censorship can stop those who strive for justice.

The hostility of the Zionists to Islam is legendary.

You are so stupid it's embarrassing!

:p

You are so stupid it's embarrassing!

:p


why do you say that Otheadp, is it just because he doesnt agree with your ideas.....?? if not what and why is it???

OK, give one example where Zionists defended Islam, or protected Muslims form the invasion of foreign nations? Name one region in which Zionists support Muslims over a Non-Muslim occupying power. Chechnya, Somalia, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq. Your pick.

OK, give one example where Zionists defended Islam, or protected Muslims form the invasion of foreign nations? IIRC Israel helped back the Afghanis against the Soviets - certainly the American Zionists did. And in the breakup of the former Yugoslavia the Zionists in the US supported bombing the Serbs and protecting the Bosnians.

IIRC Israel helped back the Afghanis against the Soviets - certainly the American Zionists did.

Only to back and provide propaganda for the subsequent American invasion.

Can you provide some sources?



And in the breakup of the former Yugoslavia the Zionists in the US supported bombing the Serbs and protecting the Bosnians.

Sources?

Also, I was asking specifically addressed to those nations which I stated. Look above. Go over them, one by one. What is Israel's stance on each of these self-determination movements?

Only to back and provide propaganda for the subsequent American invasion.

If only the rest of us could forsee the future so well...

Zionists need the Jews on territory that the Muslims were and still are currently living on so Jesus can return, or something... Its strange though, what may happen to Israel in the future. If it becomes one state, Israel, and it assimilates the Palestinians, then the palestinians would rule it because of their numbers and the people theyd vote for which would mean the end of the current form of Israel. The other option would make Israel hated even more. Tough choices for them

From The Canadian Press:


TORONTO — A court decision Monday upholding a ban on George Galloway from entering the country amid allegations he engaged in terrorist acts will see the British MP deliver speeches to Canadian audiences via a live video link from New York.

Following the Federal Court ruling, organizers of Galloway's now aborted speaking tour said the maverick politician would not attempt to enter Canada.

"We're not interested in doing anything illegal whatsoever," said James Clark, a peace activist and one of the speaking tour's organizers.

"Our expectations were such that we were already implementing Plan B, which was to make sure that he can still deliver the speech from a live broadcast."

The courts have upheld the government's interpretation of the law with regards to Galloway's right to set foot on Canadian soil. Mind you it wasn't really the government's decision in the first place- it was immigration and naturalization services, with the government refusing to overturn their decision. I was fully prepared to accept whatever ruling the courts handed down, even though I expected them to overturn the ruling, as they have been known to bend the law when enough people demand to be appeased.

For those of you who think this is such an affront to free speech, take note that George Galloway had no trouble supporting the UK's ban on Geert Wilders, a sitting member of the Dutch parliament and citizen of the European Union. You receive as you give, I suppose.

Well, the laws the law then. Im sure their plan B will work fine.