http://photomatt.net/dropbox/2004/04/bush-large.jpg

Seen this picture on another board. With the subject "Out of Control" --Basically someone arguing that Bush is "Evil" and a bad president.

Well, I'm tired of everyone ranting around saying "Bush is evil. The war on Iraq is for oil. --blah blah." A lot of people are really dumb.

For one thing, most of those images are doubled, tripled, and whatever comes after tripled. :p

Secondly, the fault is not of Bush. But of the people who joined the military. If you don't wanna fight/die/be injured don't sign the papers. It's not like Bush said "Hey you, go catch a grenade!"

And saying that American Soldiers are dying for no reason and that the War is for oil? What are you talking about? Sure we can get oil while we're there. Why not? But have you forgotten about 9/11 when Al Quieda comitted a mass genocide on American civilians? ..and also saying that they have or they are died/dying is like spitting in their face. Obviously they thought it to be pretty big damn deal to them to enlist in the military and fight for those murdered.

Using the deaths of American servicemembers to further a political agenda is so abysmally disgusting that no amount of castigation does it due credit.

These are the vitriolic demagogues of the American left. I shall now wish for their timely death, as they have far outlived their usefulness and are consuming valuable amounts of gravity. Show me the fuckwit that made that and I might just kill him myself, just to do all of us a favor.

This is the kind of thing that is BAD for the leftist cause.

Remember the coffin and 9/11 chaos used in Bush's commercial?
3000+ Americans dead ..used for a political purpose.
Those CBS photos/roll call didnt say "I, John Kerry appove of this message."
Bush's commercial did.

I think the pic's kinda cool.
He made a big face from lots of little faces!

For one thing, most of those images are doubled, tripled, and whatever comes after tripled
The word your looking for is 'quadrupled'

Guess you must be an American :D
Your gonna have lots of fun here marshall.
Just you wait and see!
Dee Cee

http://photomatt.net/dropbox/2004/04/bush-large.jpg
Seen this picture on another board. With the subject "Out of Control" --Basically someone arguing that Bush is "Evil" and a bad president.

Well, I'm tired of everyone ranting around saying "Bush is evil. The war on Iraq is for oil. --blah blah." A lot of people are really dumb.

For one thing, most of those images are doubled, tripled, and whatever comes after tripled. :p

come on, give me a break. The left and right do the exact same damn thing, everytime. One side percieves a weakness and then exploites it for what ever thay can get, usually pushing to the point it backfires on them. Then the other side does it. And on, and on, and on.

Don't try to pull this "look what the evil lefties are doing, how outrageous!" crap. It's a tennis game of back and forth garbage and you know it.


Secondly, the fault is not of Bush. But of the people who joined the military. If you don't wanna fight/die/be injured don't sign the papers.

True, it's not Bush's fault (beyond the fact that he signed off on the war but that's pretty indirect for this prisoner abuse stuff). It is his responsibility though, it comes with the big chair, he's accountable because it happened on his watch. If good stuff happens during a presidents term he usually takes the credit, the trade off is if bad stuff happens he takes the blame.

But have you forgotten about 9/11 when Al Quieda comitted a mass genocide on American civilians?

I know that I haven't, and I never will. But how has that got anything to do with Iraq? I'm tempted to say that American conservatives have forgotten 9/11 and replaced it with their own masturbatory fantasy that gives them license to justify causeless invasions of whatever nation they please.


Using the deaths of American servicemembers to further a political agenda is so abysmally disgusting that no amount of castigation does it due credit.


However evoking the deaths of 3000 American Citizens in order to further your own political agenda while eroding civil liberties, and making up fairy tale stories to invade nations we have a personal grudge with is positively commendable?

Bush sent those men and women to their deaths for no reason. There are no WMD. There is no Al'Queda Link. Oddly enough there is a lot of oil. Stop trying to sugar coat it and just accept the reality of the situation.

Bush sent those men and women to their deaths for no reason. Stop trying to sugar coat it and just accept the reality of the situation.

Oh, he had plenty of reasons. Hell, he may even have thought he was "protecting freedom"...but I'd say his reasons were money :)

Wars aren't started on morality, they're started on economics/strategic forces/resource acquisition positioning (unless you have insane dictators in charge...then they do whatever the hell they want, and in the case of religious fundamentalist zealots, they do start moral wars...). We didn't attack Iraq because Saddam was a "bad man". We attacked Iraq because doing so (and installing a friendly government) provided us with resources/economic advantage/whatever. I think oil was certainly a big factor, though a strategic position in the region where we didn't have to worry about other governments screwing with our plans was probably the deciding factor. Now that we "own" Iraq, we have a little America over there to store troops for further actions against whoever.

The Iraq war was about gaining a strategic advantage and a foothold in the ME (maybe even so much as getting the foothold to get rid of any sort of dependence on Israel...). Oil, killing Saddam, etc, those were all factors which were used to narrow down the choice of targets :)

But getting to the point of this thread...Bush is an evil, heartless old woman, failing that he's just another guy in power. Everyone always complains about the guy in power, and while Bush is doing an abysmal job at preserving freedom in America, eventually he'll get out of power and the civil liberties that were eroded will be restored (either through the peaceful democratic process or the forceful democratic process).

However, I do have to agree with the people who posted about Bush using WTC coffins and stuff in his political ads. If you're going to complain about the left doing it, call the right on it too...hypocrisy makes you look like an asshat :/

Remember the coffin and 9/11 chaos used in Bush's commercial?
3000+ Americans dead ..used for a political purpose.
Those CBS photos/roll call didnt say "I, John Kerry appove of this message."
Bush's commercial did.

Bush sent those men and women to their deaths for no reason. There are no WMD. There is no Al'Queda Link. Oddly enough there is a lot of oil. Stop trying to sugar coat it and just accept the reality of the situation.
If you guys could both refrain from putting words in my mouth that would be outstanding. I am neither endorsing nor criticizing any politician. All I am saying is that using the deaths of servicemembers to further a transitory political agenda, as the picture linked to in the first post did, is disgusting and morally reprehensible.

Oddly enough there is a lot of oil. Stop trying to sugar coat it and just accept the reality of the situation.



Do you know that the oil there is/was already ours? We have resources in Iraq. Just like we have resources in Korea. We're there protecting it.


"Oddly enough there is a lot of oil."

Do you mean to say there is a lot of oil in Iraq?
Or do you mean that we're recieving a lot of oil?
Either way, prove it.

Yea, what's all our oil doing underneath Iraq's sand anyway?

Well, my point is that if we were fighting for oil...why the is the gas prices so outrageous?

well you are using deaths of the servicemen for your agenda when you speak of them one way or the other. When your a leftist like yourself stokes you use it for your own agenda. and the right does the same as well but to say just one side does it and look at them is wrong. I personally will vote for Bush he is friendlier. LoL

Well, my point is that if we were fighting for oil...why the is the gas prices so outrageous?

Because people will pay for it. If you had the opportunty to sell 200 cookies for $5 or for $10, and you were guaranteed that all the cookies would be sold within the same time frame...how much would you sell the cookies for? I know I'd sell them for $10, $2000 is much more attractive than $1000. Its the same way with oil companies...fuel is expensive because people will pay for it.

--


I personally will vote for Bush he is friendlier. LoL

Friendlier how? Anyone who says "you're either with us or against us" doesn't qualify as friendly in my book...

Well, my point is that if we were fighting for oil...why the is the gas prices so outrageous?

That’s a good one. I loved this news item too:


From Oil prices near record high (http://www.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/05/12/oil.prices/index.html):
Oil prices have climbed above $40 for the first time in 13 years as markets remain concerned over tight supplies.

Hmm I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that Daddy was president during the last price record. I also get a kick out of how the refineries a.k.a. Bush Oil blame their ten times increase in profits (we’re talking the amount made on the refining, after the barrel has arrived in the US) on market forces out of their control.

Two things, Marshall -

There's a basic inconsistency in your argument. One moment, it's "The soldiers chose to enlist. Tough shit." Next, it's "How dare you say they're dying for no reason!"

Huh?

Also, 9/11 doesn't really qualify as a genocide. Genocide is the systematic elimination of an ethnic group. While I don't doubt that Al-Qaeda would like to wipe out Americans, 3,000 out of 300 million isn't close to an elimination.

Well, my point is that if we were fighting for oil...why the is the gas prices so outrageous?

Because we can't keep the pumps working, and OPEC hates us now, so they're putting the pressure on us.

When your a leftist like yourself stokes you use it for your own agenda.

Wait, do you mean to imply that Stokes is on the left side of the political spectrum, or that he is left handed? Left handed I can understand, that's not so outrageous, but calling him a leftists would mean you probably failed PolySci101. I'm sure he finds the accusation as amusing as I do.

two things:
First, the linked image is in poor taste, largely because I think it highly unlikely that its creator's got the permission of the families of the people in the pictures, but it is ridiculous to say that using people's deaths to forward a political agenda is wrong. These people died as a direct result of Bush's policies. To say that those opposing Bush and his policy of sending people to their death should refrain from discussing the people who have been sent to their death because it is distasteful is ridiculous.

Second, One of the most common knee-jerk reactions I encounter from people when discussing the Bush administration's disastrous actions is that I'm "forgetting about 9/11" or "but what about 9/11"? A week after 9/11, I was tabling on the street about opposing the war in Afghanistan and someone stopped to yell that "If you'd seen what happened downtown you wouldn't be saying that"
The truth of the matter is that I did see the towers fall, not on tv, but from across the hudson river. If I hadn't been running late I'd have been in the station underneath the WTC. Watching them collapse with the knowledge that they were full of people was not a pleasant experience and not something that I will ever forget, and it certainly doesn't make me want to see more such events happen around the world.

Well, my point is that if we were fighting for oil...why the is the gas prices so outrageous?

Market forces, increased consumption worldwide, and not enough production to keep up. Demand is crazy and production is falling short. America is paying a lot for oil because of the war in Iraq as well, it has disrupted that producing nations ability to stabilize itself, and OPEC is scared that a glut of Iraqi oil will drive down prices. So in response OPEC will try to stabilize the prices. Iraq contrary to popular belief is not the only state that has oil. Also most of America's oil comes from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela; Iraq is not as important as any of those three.

About the soldiers, yes it is disturbing, but I think using live soldiers for politics is just as disgusting. Notice that Bush's little ads show lots of soldiers (almost as if Republican = military). To use the soldier (dead or alive) as a tool has been in use since the inception of democracy itself. I am not shocked, and really neither should you. It's not something unexpected. To blame liberals for that is ignorant, to blame all conservatives for Bush's megalomania is also ignorant. But to be fair, to be honest, we all do it. We all exploit for our own ends, ethical or not.

two things:
First, the linked image is in poor taste, largely because I think it highly unlikely that its creator's got the permission of the families of the people in the pictures, but it is ridiculous to say that using people's deaths to forward a political agenda is wrong.

Personally I've got no problem at all with the picture. It's artistically and thematically sound. Interoperate it as you will, those men and women died for Bushes plans for the world, whether the "big picture" that they are part of is really worth while or not is really up to you to decide, but there's no point in denying that the blood of the people is the price paid for it.

Bush is linked to these people now, and I should hope that if Bush sees that picture, then he'll keep it. Reguardless of how things in Iraq turn out, I should hope that Bush never forgets a single one of those faces for as long as he lives.

Those troops signed up knowing full well they could die in battle. Mourning their 'death is pathetic- they died for what THEY thought was right- not what you or anyone else thinks is right, and their deaths were certainly not 'worthless'- as they and their family define their worth to their own cause.

they died for what THEY thought was right- not what you or anyone else thinks is right,

Oh get real! A soldier in the American army doesn't die for what he thinks is right, he dies doing what he's told to do regardless of how he feels about it. We couldn't maintain the military we have if every single individual in it had to share some sort of ideology that justified what they were doing in their own minds.

We’re not talking about an army of ideologically pure demigods who are somehow going to beat the enemy with their moral stand, these are just people who are doing their jobs, and saying that mourning their deaths is pathetic is supremely callous and arrogant, in my opinion.

Mourning their 'death is pathetic-

How DARE you!

We couldn't maintain the military we have if every single individual in it had to share some sort of ideology that justified what they were doing in their own minds.

Al Qaeda did, and they seem to still have something of a following.

Hmm...I did a spin off thread:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=578442#post578442

Love to see you there...

But have you forgotten about 9/11 when Al Quieda comitted a mass genocide on American civilians?
Remind me if you can. What's Iraq got to do with Al Qaeda, with 9/11?

Bush is another word for cunt!

Remind me if you can. What's Iraq got to do with Al Qaeda, with 9/11?

It’s simple really. Bush knew that after he attacked Iraq it would become a hotbed for Al Qaeda, thus linking Iraq with Al Qaeda, justifying the pre-emptive strike.

heh and he is a friendly cu-- benji :) lol ahhahah
Vote for Bush the friendly cu--! I will vote for him heh

I will vote for him heh

Thankfully according to the latest poll Kerry beats Bush:

Kerry: 51%
Bush 46%

Even with Nader, Kerry has a lead, the Bush dynasty looks like might not survive for much longer.

We’re not talking about an army of ideologically pure demigods who are somehow going to beat the enemy with their moral stand, these are just people who are doing their jobs, and saying that mourning their deaths is pathetic is supremely callous and arrogant, in my opinion.



How DARE you!

How dare I? I AM IN THE ARMY. I signed up knowing what was expected of me. I don't agree with Bush, but I could care less, I'll finishing the job. I did not mean we shouldn't feel sorrow. I mourn the loss of all my allies. I mean we shouldn't cry for the wrong reasons--and that is saying that their death was injustice or worthless--that is what is pathetic.

Thankfully according to the latest poll Kerry beats Bush:

Where'd you see that? I see Bush beating Kerry without Nader as of May 9. And that's before he spends the bulk of his record-setting campaign money that swamps Kerry's.

Where'd you see that?

It's the latest CNN poll; Kerry is beating Bush in the economy, Iraq, and terrorism. Bush is in hot water, I am not so sure now how he can last. I wouldn't be surprised if he won, frankly I am preparing for it. But I still hold out hope that Americans are finally understanding how much damage that man has done.

Kerry is beating Bush in terrorism? That's a surprise...defense and etc have always been strongpoints for republicans if I remember correctly...

I don't think anyone would argue that defense spending is a higher priority for the republicans than it is for the democrats, just that Bush's use of America's defenses in combating terrorism has been... unsuccessful so far.

I suggest that may be why many consider Kerry beating Bush regarding terrorism. I'm not american though so thats just how it looks from here.

anybody else here thinks Bush sucks? (except I am Canadian so this is none of my business:p, but still I do not want to see Bush taking charge for another 4 years)