http://feeds.engadget.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadget/~3/120116890/



Yes, it is already being sold and uses only air check it out.

Interesting.

Compressed air as an energy storage system seems to hold a lot of promise. This allows for electricty usage at night to compress air, when electricity is cheap.

Why do they not have a 'turbine' type of engine, with a possible electrict motor driven by a turbine driven generator?

Can't imagine these as being very powerful.

Why do they not have a 'turbine' type of engine, with a possible electrict motor driven by a turbine driven generator?

The answer to that question is very simple and one that far too many people don't seem to understand.

Each stage of energy conversion has inherent losses and the one you just proposed involves two stages of conversion : mechanical to electrical and then electrical back to mechanical again. Wasteful.

I wish them well, but the air car has been on the verge of production for several years now.

Runs on hot air, right?

Read-Only:

Isn't that the way we do our submarines?

Read-Only:

Isn't that the way we do our submarines?

Not really because both the source of power and propulsion are quite different. In subs it's first heat from a nuclear reaction, next is high-pressure steam, then mechanical to electrical, then electrical to mechanical to drive the props.

Yes, it would be more efficient to just drive the props with steam BUT the controls would be FAR less responsive (trying to throttle a reactor to varying loads is nearly impossible due to the lag involved) and extremely cumbersome. Plus the fact that electricity is needed to run all the other equipment on the boat - so it's the perfect choice considering all the applications and the frequent need to vary the drive speed.

But for simpler systems (like the air car) there's no need to go through any wasteful conversions at all. Just used the compressed air to drive the wheels directly. Plus there's less weight to haul around (the turbine and generator).

Air cars will never get anywhere, because it takes a huge amount of energy to produce compressed air in the first place. At work we have ac ompressor, and it costs us tens of thousands of pounds a year to run.

Not really because both the source of power and propulsion are quite different. In subs it's first heat from a nuclear reaction, next is high-pressure steam, then mechanical to electrical, then electrical to mechanical to drive the props.

Yes, it would be more efficient to just drive the props with steam BUT the controls would be FAR less responsive (trying to throttle a reactor to varying loads is nearly impossible due to the lag involved) and extremely cumbersome. Plus the fact that electricity is needed to run all the other equipment on the boat - so it's the perfect choice considering all the applications and the frequent need to vary the drive speed.

But for simpler systems (like the air car) there's no need to go through any wasteful conversions at all. Just used the compressed air to drive the wheels directly. Plus there's less weight to haul around (the turbine and generator).

It would be more meaningful to skip the compressed air part and go straight from battery to an electric motor. You don't get compressed air from nothing. You get it from a compressor which runs off of either electricity or fuel. And the gas stations around here have air-compressors that run off electricity.

Interesting.

Indians really shouldn't design cars though. Not to be racist or unnecessarily harsh against them, but every Indian car I've seen has been ugly as fuck.

Of course, there's still the source of electricity as the article says. I'd suggest a package whereby the customer is given a solar panel, a compressor and battery farm to re-compress their car at home. I dare say the cost to the end-user would put people off and they'll still use nice coal burning plants to get their electricity. The vast majority of India is warm and sunny, so the solar panels would make sense.

Britain and parts of North America could have a combined solar panel and wind turbine, etc.

If we're going super-eco-friendly, we need a car made of bamboo. It's a step closer though, so good on 'em.

Yes, it would be more efficient to just drive the props with steam BUT the controls would be FAR less responsive (trying to throttle a reactor to varying loads is nearly impossible due to the lag involved) and extremely cumbersome. Plus the fact that electricity is needed to run all the other equipment on the boat - so it's the perfect choice considering all the applications and the frequent need to vary the drive speed.That's similar to the way railroad locomotives work. Those diesel engines displace about 10,000 cu.in. (150 liters) and it would be pretty difficult to build a clutch and an automatic transmission to mate to them. So the engine drives an electric generator and the generator powers electric motors, which have constant torque even when standing still and therefore don't need clutches and transmissions. In effect the electrical devices serve as a transmission. The same principle is at work in the submarine.
Indians really shouldn't design cars though. Not to be racist or unnecessarily harsh against them, but every Indian car I've seen has been ugly as fuck.I hope you're being facetious. Aesthetic taste varies from one culture to the next. Remember how the early Japanese cars looked? The Japanese thought they were charming in their humility as mechanical servants, and that ours were so gaudy as to be shamefully ugly.

I hope you're being facetious. Aesthetic taste varies from one culture to the next. Remember how the early Japanese cars looked? The Japanese thought they were charming in their humility as mechanical servants, and that ours were so gaudy as to be shamefully ugly.I was being slightly tongue in cheek, but I suppose you're right. I really do find Indian cars to be extremely unattractive though. I haven't seen any, that I can remember, that were attractive. To me, granted. Do Indians really find them all that attractive though?

Runs on hot air, right?
Pretty much...from the Wiki article:

"Many engineers claim that the energy in compressed air can never be fully utilized. Even if the entire energy in the compressed air would be used, 300l air at 300bar only amounts to about 12kWh (the equivalent of 1.4l of petrol).

The marketing strategy of MDI / AirCar also resembles multi-level marketing, in that the company is interested in selling turnkey factories. They have been promoting these factories since at least 2001, but apparently no factories have yet been built.

In 2001 a Swedish journalist investigated a company promoting the car in Sweden, but came to the conclusion that it was a scam. He met many people who were ready to sell him shares in a manufacturing company, but nobody had actually driven the car in question."

As of May 2007 the air car has only managed a range of five miles...far from the 100+ mile range promised since 1999.

I really do find Indian cars to be extremely unattractive though. I haven't seen any, that I can remember, that were attractive. To me, granted. Do Indians really find them all that attractive though?
India has never been good at asthetic design...even the human figures on their temples are horribly distorted.

I was being slightly tongue in cheek, but I suppose you're right. I really do find Indian cars to be extremely unattractive though. I haven't seen any, that I can remember, that were attractive. To me, granted. Do Indians really find them all that attractive though?

Ya, we do. :)

I hope that those cars will survive a crash test because so far there's nothing that I have found to show there safety or reliability to me. Perhaps the people there aren't concerned about those factors but many other countries are.

Interesting.

Indians really shouldn't design cars though. Not to be racist or unnecessarily harsh against them, but every Indian car I've seen has been ugly as fuck.

Of course, there's still the source of electricity as the article says. I'd suggest a package whereby the customer is given a solar panel, a compressor and battery farm to re-compress their car at home. I dare say the cost to the end-user would put people off and they'll still use nice coal burning plants to get their electricity. The vast majority of India is warm and sunny, so the solar panels would make sense.

Britain and parts of North America could have a combined solar panel and wind turbine, etc.

If we're going super-eco-friendly, we need a car made of bamboo. It's a step closer though, so good on 'em.
Why bamboo when Hemp is far superior. It can be made into fuel, oil, plastics, medicine, cloth, lotion, and paper. The seeds of the hemp plant can be made into a protein powder which is supposedly really efficient as far as the body ability to absorb goes. Even better protein than whey protein.
Once free energy is developed our dependence on oil can be limited to almost 0. Hemp could take it's place and is more economical than refining oil for use of plastics.

Thundering Typhoons!
Can hardly believe Motor Trend has come out with a feature story on the air car...turns out to have a few surprises!
http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/112_0708_technologue/

Why bamboo when Hemp is far superior. It can be made into fuel, oil, plastics, medicine, cloth, lotion, and paper. The seeds of the hemp plant can be made into a protein powder which is supposedly really efficient as far as the body ability to absorb goes. Even better protein than whey protein.
Once free energy is developed our dependence on oil can be limited to almost 0. Hemp could take it's place and is more economical than refining oil for use of plastics.

Sure, I'd agree with you.

I meant the structural aspects of the car being made of bamboo. It's probably a bad idea for a variety of reasons though. =/

Don't write off bamboo. Its cellular structure gives it a lot of advantages as a building material. I've been told that, by some measures anyway, it's the strongest natural organic substance.

Don't write off bamboo. Its cellular structure gives it a lot of advantages as a building material. I've been told that, by some measures anyway, it's the strongest natural organic substance.

I'd heard that, too. I was thinking the natural variance between one piece of bamboo and another could cause problems in mass production. One piece of bamboo might not be as strong as the next. Every car would be a little different and might need a little more thought.

I'd love to see it done though. As long as it wasn't a deathtrap, I'd be quite happy to have a bamboo car.

Don't write off bamboo. Its cellular structure gives it a lot of advantages as a building material. I've been told that, by some measures anyway, it's the strongest natural organic substance.

I read some where that we can make some type of composite out of hemp that is stronger than steel. Probably like carbon fiber except made with fibers woven together from the hemp plant. The article never said of it's construction process.

But yeah I never really read much about Bamboo but I have done a lot of reading on hemp. It would be interesting to compare the strengths of the two.

What's cool is both plants are relatively easy to grow, can take a lot of abuse, and grow relatively fast.

I read some where that we can make some type of composite out of hemp that is stronger than steel. Probably like carbon fiber except made with fibers woven together from the hemp plant. The article never said of it's construction process.

But yeah I never really read much about Bamboo but I have done a lot of reading on hemp. It would be interesting to compare the strengths of the two.

What's cool is both plants are relatively easy to grow, can take a lot of abuse, and grow relatively fast.

Search results - http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=hemp+composite+%22stronger+than+steel%22&btnG=Search&meta=


Hemp can also be made into plastics. Henry Ford dreamed of a car that grew from the earth and in 1937, he created a plastic car composed of a 70% hemp composite plastic. This car could endure an impact ten times stronger than steel without bending! Today, aside from specialized products, all our plastics come from fossil fuels.From http://www.solarandwindfx.com/high_gas_prices.htm

Interesting. Strange that it isn't more commonly known he did this. I've never heard about it anyway.

http://www.hempcar.org/

Nice site - lots of info. I'm going to have a read :) See you soon.

Search results - http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=hemp+composite+%22stronger+than+steel%22&btnG=Search&meta=

From http://www.solarandwindfx.com/high_gas_prices.htm

Interesting. Strange that it isn't more commonly known he did this. I've never heard about it anyway.

http://www.hempcar.org/

Nice site - lots of info. I'm going to have a read :) See you soon.

Yeah same here until I started researching about hemp. It's probably the most useful plant on this planet.