I was studying in the library today, and a chap asked me how I went on the electronics exam. I don't know yet, we haven't recieved our scores. Then he casually asked if I had a cheat sheet, a hidden sheet with formulae and such. I said no, I've never cheated on an exam in my life. This dude did not believe me, said everyone cheats. Earlier this morning I heard another chap mention that he hadn't had a chance to use his cheat sheet because the lecturers were watching everyone too closely in the exam. I've asked around, and it seems to me that a huge number of people cheat. This chap in the library said "Why the hell not? You want a good job, you need good grades, so cheat." And like I said, people don't believe me when I say I've never cheated on a test in my life.

Maybe I'm a dumb-arse, but I'd rather accept a crappy grade than pass that way. Usually I pass, if not very well.

I'm a computer gamer. More than that, I'm fairly addicted (won't delve into that ;) )

You're right, it's frightening how much cheating has become acceptable. Never felt the need to myself, but for a lot of gamers out there it's as natural as breathing. Is it (in this case) because over "the net" you're an anonymous person, you're not likely to be caught (and if you are you merely change identity and start again), and the normal peer pressure doesn't apply any longer?

It seems the pressure for "recognition" has become a little more than people can handle...

Originally posted by Adam
"Why the hell not? You want a good job, you need good grades, so cheat."It robs me of a sense of personal satisfaction.

Reason enough for not doing it right there, plus taking shortcuts has a way of following you into the "real" world - with negative results in the long run.

Peace.

Speaking of cheating, I was talking to a girl here in the uni dorms the other day. She mentioned that she had cheated on her boyfriend, who was away, and was not going to tell him anything because she couldn't be bothered dealing with the hassle of his doubt and such. People suck.

I'm reasonably certain that I live in an entirely different world to that inhabited by most people.

Well... it is Australia, after all. :D

Peace.

Academically, there are only a few questions to consider:

•*Does my advance cause someone else's decline? (e.g. curve vs. raw score)
•*What will happen if I'm caught? (e.g. class failure, suspension, expulsion)
•*What will happen if the material I cheat on becomes applicable in practice? (e.g. "I don't know how to fix this problem because I cheated this part of the curriculum!")

If the answers to those three questions are satisfactory, it becomes a matter of personal achievement as some have pointed out.

Of other cheating:

It's a strange thing about people who cheat on their partners. I, for instance, am a notorious target for being cheated on because it's really easy. I'd rather trust you to be faithful. To the other, I once tried to get rid of a woman I was dating by telling her to see other people. She wouldn't. But, of course, it doesn't change the fact that when our relationship was "stable" she would cheat.

Yes, people do suck.

I think the easiest thing to do is to start f--king whoever you want and to not call it cheating. Rebuild the relationship paradigm to make sexuality less possessive and so forth.

Of course, this comes from one with the inevitable perspective gained from the experience of waking up to the sight of your girlfriend f--king your best friend on the bedroom floor ten feet away from you. With friends like that, who needs alarm clocks? :D

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Yep, people suck.

Yep, people suck


Oh stop it guys. Everyone cheats, has cheated, or wishes he was cheating! :D

What is morally wrong with cheating?

What is morally wrong with cheating?

If you cheat in an exam and pass without knowing the work, you may end up in a job where peoples' lives depend on your knowledge. Because you don't have that knowledge, people may die. Just an example.

But to me the external reasons like that are not the most important. It seems to me that by cheating, you are admitting to yourself "I'm not good enough to do this, and I'm not strong enough to even try, so I'll just be a wimp and cheat."

That's a bit extreme, Adamski. I had to take a mandatory women's studies class once - damned if it would effect anyone or anything whether I knew the material or not.

Yes, I cheated my ass off. As did everybody. I don't feel bad about it, either. Good enough for the class? I hated it. It was not good enough for me.

However, I do not and will not cheat in a good class.

That said, why is cheating on a partner wrong? Is it because of trust or somthing? Is there an unwritten rule of monogamy, and if you break that rule, they will feel hurt?

As far as biology is concerned, I would say cheating is a bad move. Ensuring own genes carried on and all, cheating threatens that.

Apart from that, well, as I've said many times, I tend to believe in things like love. And also that sex is best done with those you love. Given my beliefs in this matter, that means if the person you love goes and shags someone else, obviously she doesn't love you. I attach a great deal of emotional stuff to these matters, and cheating basically tosses all that out with the trash. Luckily (as far as I know), nobody has cheated on me. Not that I recall at the moment anyway.

Cheating on someone also displays a complete disregard for the person's health and goals and everything. What if the cheater catches some disease? Or gets pregnant and totally screws over the other person's plans and current life?

About the only argument for cheating is: "Sorry babe, I know I could have gotten pregnant or caught some disease and given it to you, and I know you might care about this 'us' thing, but I felt like a quick roll in the hay." Really great reasoning there.

Adam:

As far as biology is concerned, I would say cheating is a bad move. Ensuring own genes carried on and all, cheating threatens that.

No, men have an advantage if they cheat - more children, more genetic variation when it comes to mothers.


Cheating on someone also displays a complete disregard for the person's health and goals and everything. What if the cheater catches some disease? Or gets pregnant and totally screws over the other person's plans and current life?

Maybe, possibly, but suppose that that wasn't an issue.

I'm interested in the emotional dynamics.

About the only argument for cheating is: "Sorry babe, I know I could have gotten pregnant or caught some disease and given it to you, and I know you might care about this 'us' thing, but I felt like a quick roll in the hay." Really great reasoning there.


There is something called.... safe sex!
Im kidding, yes cheating is wrong, but there are situations that a person cannot get out of and the only joy they get is from a person they're cheating with.
Uhh... Im not talking from experience here... I just heard that somewhere! :D

Xev



No, men have an advantage if they cheat - more children, more genetic variation when it comes to mothers.

Of course you're right, men would try to screw around as much as possible, if biology was the only factor. Since the initial comment by me was sparked by a girl here in the dorms, I was looking only at women cheating.



Maybe, possibly, but suppose that that wasn't an issue.
I'm interested in the emotional dynamics.

Well, to me, that is the issue. Emotion is involved in sex. Either you love the person you're with, or you don't. Since emotion is attached to sex, if you cheat on that person, obviously you don't love them or you completely disregard their feelings.

*stRgrl*



Im kidding, yes cheating is wrong, but there are situations that a person cannot get out of and the only joy they get is from a person they're cheating with.

I don't see how a situation can not be gotten out of, but if you insist. Although I think the preferable option would be to simply end the current relationship and then take up with the new person.

Cheating IS WRONG

I know this because i think about what I would feel like if i was cheated on. It would hurt more than anything else i could think of (including being dumped) so it shows a lack of understanding of someones feelings

That makes it wrong

Hmm, Asguard and Adam...

It is only because you have the belief that cheating is wrong, and that it is done out of a lack of regard for the other person, that you are hurt by it.

If you aren't of that opinion, and your partner "cheats" (see, even the term itself represents a mind-set) then you wont be hurt. it's simple really... your beliefs are (sticking my neck out) probably ones you have been "taught" by those around you, or culturally-ingrained, and have become your own. That does not make them "True".

If you believe in the difference between sex and love, and everyone around you does as well, then people being hurt by this will cease to exist. IMNSHO, the world would therefore be a far better place.

I'm sometimes not very good at making myself clear, hope you understand what I mean here.

Given that love between a mated pair is (most likely) basically part of our biology/evolution, intended to provide the best chances for offspring to survive, a separation of love and sex is literally inhuman; it goes against our nature.

Ah, Adamski, your sig and title are quite appropriate. ;)


Well, to me, that is the issue. Emotion is involved in sex. Either you love the person you're with, or you don't. Since emotion is attached to sex, if you cheat on that person, obviously you don't love them or you completely disregard their feelings.

You realise that I have to tease you now? It's against my religion not to.

"Adam sounds like a gi-rl! A-dam sounds like a gi-rl!"

Emotion is attatched to sex, but what of all those 'friends with benefits'? Love is not attatched to sex in those cases - or trophy wives - again, love not attatched to sex.


Given that love between a mated pair is (most likely) basically part of our biology/evolution, intended to provide the best chances for offspring to survive, a separation of love and sex is literally inhuman; it goes against our nature.

Maybe - it depends on the mated pair, as I have shown. Studies show that some 50% of men admit to cheating on a partner at one point in time - would that make them inhuman?

Cheating is not inhuman, but a valid genetic strategy, both for men and women. Now, whether it is ethical is another issue.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and wonder - is it not the cheating itself that is considered hurtful, but the deception involved?

Well, like Don Quimonkey, I see castles where there are taverns, and to me both are unacceptable. I've never lied to a girlfriend, never kept things from one, never cheated on one. I've never had sex with someone who was "just a friend", only with girlfriends (ie. lovers).

The closest I've come (pun) to shagging a friend was when a girl and I were fooling around and were about to get rather nekkid and serious, and I remembered to ask "Haven't you got a boyfriend?" She said "yes". I said goodbye and left. Why? I would not do that to the other guy, and I would hope nobody would do that to me. It turned out to be a rather good move, since I discovered from another friend later that she had been spreading quite a few nasty little infections around.

I don't think there is necessarily any discrepency between the mated pair looking after offspring and the male urge to shag everything in sight. Look at lions, baboons, horses, and others. Generally when a new alpha male takes over, he will kill the very young offspring of the previous alpha, then go about shagging all the females. The male wants only his genes carried on. The females, meanwhile, must deal with this and accept the new alpha, or otherwise they would not be protected by the prode/troop/herd community and the alpha male himself.

Yeah, you still sound like a girl, Adamski. :p

Seriously, I suspect it has to do with trust - not so much the fact that you s/o is shagging somone else but the fact that they lied about it.

What think you?

I hate people lying to me, true. But the thought of a girl seeing me as less than The One for her doesn't fill me with romantic glee. For me, it's not enough to be just one of the lads, one more notch on the bedpost. If emotion doesn't enter into it, a person might as well start working as a prostitute and make some money with their fun.

I lie, cheat and steal. ooops, i'm human.

I don't lie, cheat, or steal. I'm human.

Well, occasionally a little lie. :)

I am a liar.

*Giggles*

Adamski, I agree. Sorta. Never been in a relationship relationship, but I can see how - well, "I should be enough for him" as Rachel put it in Bladerunner.

Originally posted by Pine_net
I lie, cheat and steal. ooops, i'm human.
You say it as though they are things to be proud of. Strange.

Are there not good ways to lie, cheat and steal?

Lets put this in another light

I would lie to save a life
I would cheat to teach a lesson
I would steal your girlfriend if you treated her without respect.

I would probably chuck any principles I have out with the trash if doing so was required for someone else's safety/health.

However, I can't see how me shagging someone other than the person I love could possibly teach anyone a lesson. If circumstance reduces you to that, you really weren't thinking hard enough to find other options.

I would not "steal" anyone's girlfriend. I would, however, break some bones of a guy who was hurting his girlfriend, and maybe get a policeman chap I know to visit them and do some nasty things. One way or another, he would cease hurting her. But I don't see stealing as an option.

Your thinking of the word cheat is a bit narrow. Think out of the box, pun intended.

How do you steal a girlfriend, Pine_net? With Viking helmets and longboats? :p

Returning to the origional question, I suppose that cheating is wrong because it is winning dishonestly, and gives you an unfair advantage over the people who do not cheat.

That make any sense?

Oh yes, and I thought "I am a liar" was quite funny.

*Sulks*

I hate you all! :p

Any way you use the word "cheat", I don't see how it can be used to teach a lesson.

If I am doing an exam against a cheater, I prefer to do it honestly myself. If the cheater does not learn that they can pass without cheating, it's their bad luck.

If I am in a race against a cheater, I would rather run it properly and not cut corners. The cheater will gain no satisfaction.

As for sexual cheating, as above.

Any way you use the term, the cheater will gain no satisfaction, honour, or anything else of value. They will always know they cheated. I think trying to set a good example by simply not cheating is better than cheating to teach a lesson.

Why Xev, do you need rescuing?! ( whilst fastening on helmet and readying his long boat)

Now you may be asking yourself how can someone learn a lesson from cheating? Well lets just say that the person being taught the lesson might also be the one teaching. :p

*Grabs her broadsword*

So, Pine, you are saying that it's okay to cheat as revenge?

Cheating: Anything giving you an unfair advantage over others.

Who said life is fair? We catch ourselves taking the easy way around an obstacle and label it. We try to better and learn from the experience turning it into a positive instead of the negative. Someone once said that all is fair in love and war.

I never cheat on my test, I never study either - just wing it. More fun that way :D.

80% of the time I get a good grade the other 20 should never be discussed in public :D

*Grabs her broadsword*

*Grabs his katana*

CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE!!!

*ahem* well anyhoo, I definitely agree with Adam here. I don't cheat, lie (much) or steal. But I too would toss all those morals out the window when it came to saving another from pain/death/dismemberment. And if the situation isn't something like that, man, then it's just not cool. I shall now retire with my usual farewell.

Stay cool,:D
Lesion42

You know, ethics are highly overrated

How do you steal a girlfriend, Pine_net? With Viking helmets and longboats?

http://www.kampf.nl/smiley-faces.com/smilies/viking.gif

Hee Hee Hee...:D :D :D Ready Pine_net?

Lesion:


*Grabs his katana*

CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE!!!

*Parries*

Tyler:

You know, ethics are highly overrated

Mebbe. What use would you say they are, and what value?

I do believe in a code of ethics, but it's very flexible. I'd break every one of my rules if a life was at stake.

Cactus: You know, I got a A+ on the chem test before last - I must have studied for two hours on the damn thing.

Without cheating.

"Mebbe. What use would you say they are, and what value?

I do believe in a code of ethics, but it's very flexible. I'd break every one of my rules if a life was at stake."

I have no ethics for most things. I have values, but not ethics. For instance, I go through two COMPLETELY different modes in life; mode one is where I value my own like a million times more than any other person's, where I have total lack of care for other human life. The second type, which is more often what comes out, is where I value my own life as much as I value a mint. And where I would die for nearly anyone I remotly like. It's usually the later. I usually could care less about my own life. Very rarely do I feel my life is of value, but when I do, it goes to an extreme!


My ethics would consist of 'Freedom of Speech should pertain to ALL speech'. I would gladly die for your free speech if the government is putting down your cause, even if I completely disagree with the cause. I have very little regard for human life. So thinking that a war or action in war is not of high regard to me. For instance, Churchill being a war criminal? Bullshit. He did what was necessary at the time. It was actually VERY possible that the German's would win the war, he made sure it didn't happen. I say, praise the guy. If he hadn't been around, my family likely would have been killed in the Final Solution.


The value of ethics to other people is to tell them the difference between right and wrong. To me, logic suits just fine for that.

Xev: no its not just a trust thing because if my girl came up to me and said "oh i cheeted on you" the girl would be INSTANTLY dumpted

Thats not saying anything about if she was raped though. If that happend i would stick with her to the end if she wanted me to

Adam: Your right
i wouldn't cheet (in ether sence) for revenge or to "teach someone a lesson". If a girl cheets on me then i wont HAVE to teach her a lesson because she wont be my girl and cheeting WITH someone because there partner is abusive or something ISN'T going to help. Rather would actully put them in MORE danger

You cop friend is a good idear

This is all about feelings
If you both agree that you can see other people then good luck to you but when i chose a girl its ONE girl and i expect the same from her

If your girlfriend cheated on you and you dumped her cold, do you think that maybe she learned her lesson? I'm not saying cheating is right. In fact I think that cheating on a loved one sexually is very wrong, but humans will be human.

Originally posted by Pine_net
In fact I think that cheating on a loved one sexually is very wrong, but humans will be human.
It's also human to shag every woman you see whether she wants it or not, to beat your neighbour and his kids to death so your kids get all the food, and so on. On the other hand, it is human to be guided by honour and reason as well. I choose the latter, at least as often as I can manage.

I think the "instantly dumped" thing would really depend for me. I mean, if she were really sorry and telling me out of guilt, then having the courage to tell the truth and appologize deserves rewarding, not punishment. But if it was a "no remorse" sort of comment, then hell, ya. It's dumping time.:D

Normaly im all into forgiveness but i could NEVER look at a girl who did that to me and feel anything but hurt and distrust

Sorry Shes gone (but as i said if it WASN'T her fault, drink spiking, then i would keep her)

Originally posted by Adam
Given that love between a mated pair is (most likely) basically part of our biology/evolution, intended to provide the best chances for offspring to survive, a separation of love and sex is literally inhuman; it goes against our nature.

Actually, no I dont agree.

Most animals are not monogamous.. they stay together as a mated pair for a limited time only, long enough for the offspring to survive (and dont tell me about the widgedee bird from haraguru which rather romantically mates for life... we're talking the norm here not the exceptions)

Our offspring are able to survive on their own (theoratically speaking) a few years after birth... for the sake of argument, say 7-10 years. At least by this stage the mother is able to care for the child by herself, and the child is more useful regarding its own upbringing.

Is it a co-incidence then, that humans tend to fall in love, and stay in love for a few years without any desire to cheat, then the relationship develops into more of a platonic thing rather than a passionate one? I'm talking the norm here, not your "oh we've been married 47 years and still shag every day on the kitchen table" type couples, or the "damn we've only been together 3 weeks and already he's out till dawn" sort.

Is the "7-year itch" a fallacy, or something which exists because by this time, the children of that union are becoming more able to fend for themselves leaving the male free to spread his seed elsewhere?

Just a thought I've had, not a concrete theory...

Originally posted by Xev
Yeah, you still sound like a girl, Adamski. :p

Seriously, I suspect it has to do with trust - not so much the fact that you s/o is shagging somone else but the fact that they lied about it.

What think you?

I'm thinking that the fact they felt they NEEDED to lie to you is the problem... not the cheating itself. If cheating wasnt "cheating" then there would be no need for lies... hence no distrust. Right?