Choices

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A man understanding the ridiculous nature of the issues of nation states and the hypocrisy and mass deceit required to sustain them, is still faced with a dilemma:
Should he uncover the filth beneath the power that is or should he choose to defend it as a known entity not wanting to risk its replacement with an unknown one?
It is nonetheless important to be aware of what is going on rather than be oblivious to it.
A slave knowing he is one is superior to one that is not.
The source of most of the world’s violence and suffering has always been the unfortunate belief in the lies and the buying into the facades of social and cultural institutions by the majority that then seeks to impose it upon minorities or other majorities.
Any civilization is dependant upon the complete indoctrination and ignorance of its population; particularly one that maintains power by giving the illusion of freedom and choice, as the American Empire is.
A knowing mind has two choices:
Separate himself from the throng and become uncaring and aloof with its predicaments and pains. A stance that doesn’t save the individual but only makes him a Buddhist monk; distant and unconcerned.
Or engage the world uncover the deceit and attempt to make a difference.
A stance that may make him a target of hate and that may quicken his descent into the nothingness.
What is your choice?

Should he uncover the filth beneath the power that is
If that was likely to make a difference I'd have done it already ;)

A slave knowing he is one is superior to one that is not.
But the ignorant one is happier....
Not planning a slave revolt are you wanderer?
You can upset a lot of slaves that way.

The source of most of the world’s violence and suffering has always been the unfortunate belief in the lies and the buying into the facades of social and cultural institutions by the majority that then seeks to impose it upon minorities or other majorities.
Hmm...
Big claim bordering on generalisation methinks.

A knowing mind has two choices:
Only two?

What is your choice?
Separate himself from the throng and become uncaring and aloof
Or engage the world uncover the deceit and attempt to make a difference.

Neither of those.
The first one just isn't my style, sorry.
and 'Uncovering the deceit' takes about five minutes on google but getting people to care about it is nigh on impossible, as your sure to discover ;)
How about..
Learn how to accept compromise then engage the world and make it better.
Oh and be nice to strangers too.
Dee Cee

The "good" is within everyones reach, but we have to walk an infinite spiral to reach that destination..

BECAUSE ignorance is painfully slow to unwind.

Education is the only way forward, IMO, always being reminded that very little is really known.

Zarkov[/U]]The "good" is within everyones reach, but we have to walk an infinite spiral to reach that destination..

BECAUSE ignorance is painfully slow to unwind.

Education is the only way forward, IMO, always being reminded that very little is really known.
You are assuming that education can be advanced equally by all.
You are assuming knowledge equals intelligence or wisdom.

DeeCee

But the ignorant one is happier....
Not planning a slave revolt are you wanderer?
You can upset a lot of slaves that way.
Is ‘happiness’ then the goal of life?
Is it even possible?
The automatons should be urged to believe so, so that in their pursuit of the carrot they pull the cart.


Hmm...
Big claim bordering on generalisation methinks.
“Generalizations” are all we have [oops there goes another one]. The complicated mind finds order in, what seems to a simple mind, as a chaotic jumble. These instances of created order are perceived by a simple mind as broad “generalizations” it cannot wrap its imagination around.
Every human thought and perception and idea is a simplification of a multiplicity or a more complicate phenomenon.
The human mind encapsulates and decreases everything to its lowest common denominator. This is called knowledge.
If it weren’t for it thought, reason and logic would be impossible.


Only two?
I juxtapose black/white to make colors stand out or enable others to describe the rainbow in between.
What there option is there, then?
I suggest that instead of just criticizing with no argument to actually post something concerning the topic.
It’s easy to only criticize using one-liners and sarcasm.
But you can do as you wish and I can ignore as I wish.
Just for the record: If you have nothing to add or say concerning the topic then, here’s something novel….BE SILENT.


Neither of those.
The first one just isn't my style, sorry.
and 'Uncovering the deceit' takes about five minutes on google but getting people to care about it is nigh on impossible, as your sure to discover
How about..
Learn how to accept compromise then engage the world and make it better.
Oh and be nice to strangers too.
Dee Cee
You see here in the last part you describe what is not ‘my style’.
Engaging the world is easy, accepting compromise with a moron is not easy.
It requires me to swallow my pride.
So you want to “change the world” by being kind and gentle and compromising?
Good luck.
I think this is your way of saying you like things just the way they are.
:eek:

Is ‘happiness’ then the goal of life?
Well it's gotta be one of the top three..

The automatons should be urged to believe so, so that in their pursuit of the carrot they pull the cart.
Scary....
What if they don't want to pull your cart?

The complicated mind finds order in, what seems to a simple mind, as a chaotic jumble.
Let me guess...
Your one of those with a complicated mind.
Don't the girls just love that.

Just for the record: If you have nothing to add or say concerning the topic then, here’s something novel….BE SILENT.
Get away!
If you can post waffle like
"Every human thought and perception and idea is a simplification of a multiplicity or a more complicate phenomenon."
Then I can sure as hell post a few one liners.

Engaging the world is easy, accepting compromise with a moron is not easy.
If you have trouble compromising with morons how exactly are you going to 'educate' the masses.
Your very big headed.
Narrow doorways must be quite a challenge.

So you want to “change the world” by being kind and gentle and compromising?
Compared to making the "automatons" pull your cart I think it is the lesser of two evils.
Oh and it works. ;)

So are you changing the world today or are you planning to think about it a while longer?
Dee Cee

DeeCee

Well it's gotta be one of the top three..
For you, it’s on the top.
I see it now.
That’s your weakness.


Scary....
What if they don't want to pull your cart?
They always do.


Let me guess...
Your one of those with a complicated mind.
Don't the girls just love that.
If only you knew, little head.
But why do all my statements pertain to me personally?
Are you trying to turn this thread into one focused on me personally?
Move on then.
The thread is called choices.
What ‘I am’ and what ‘I think I am’ is none of your business and not the topic up for discussion.
Speculate, deduce and start a thread with this topic in mind.


Get away!
If you can post waffle like
"Every human thought and perception and idea is a simplification of a multiplicity or a more complicate phenomenon."
Then I can sure as hell post a few one liners.
You not being able to comprehend is none of my concern.
You don’t get how the mind is an interpreter and so it downsizes phenomena into comprehensible, storable generalizations of things that are much more complicated?
Take the idea of self: is it a specific or a multiplicity of phenomena and instances cooperating in a single entity simplified into a union of one?
Is not time/space a mental interpretation of phenomena to make them perceivable and knowable?
Are you an idiot?

I’m sure someone understood it. Not you obviously.
You can post any ‘one-liner’ you wish and I can ignore it.


If you have trouble compromising with morons how exactly are you going to 'educate' the masses.
Your very big headed.
Narrow doorways must be quite a challenge.
Who says I want to educate the masses?
My days of idealism are long gone.
Now, I want the masses to stay exactly as stupid as you… I mean…. they are.

I do wear an extra-large hat.


So are you changing the world today or are you planning to think about it a while longer?
Dee Cee
“Changing the world” I leave up to you. I am interested in changing self, gaining power and finding a few souls to share myself with.
The rest leaves me indifferent.

That’s your weakness.
Then you can try and use it to manipulate me?

They always do.
No.
Not all of them.

But why do all my statements pertain to me personally?
Because you like talking about yourself?
Oh and if that first "my" was supposed to be a "you" then I guess the fact that your offering to be my messiah is reason enough for me to check you out before I shackle myself to that cart of yours.

What ‘I am’ and what ‘I think I am’ is none of your business and not the topic up for discussion.
Obviously I beg to differ.
Unless of course, your choosing to "Separate himself from the throng and become uncaring and aloof with its predicaments " in which case you should go back to you mountain eyrie and meditate awhile.
Or you could try reading 'Hamlet' it might give you some ideas. You certainly sound like a renaissance man.

You don’t get how the mind is an interpreter and so it downsizes phenomena into comprehensible, storable generalizations of things that are much more complicated?
Gosh!
Like a kind of 'reducing valve' you mean?
How original.

Are you an idiot?
Perhaps but I still think Huxley put it better.

So what did you choose?
Dee Cee

DeeCee

Then you can try and use it to manipulate me?
Your paranoia is seeping through, little one.
If I wanted to manipulate you I would not be saying what I think but only repeating what you think.
In the street you would be easy, here where I’ve poured my soul out in public it would be harder.


Because you like talking about yourself?
Oh and if that first "my" was supposed to be a "you" then I guess the fact that your offering to be my messiah is reason enough for me to check you out before I shackle myself to that cart of yours.
I do not want to be anyone’s “messiah”. I couldn’t care less about you or your kind.
My motives are entirely self-serving. I am looking for a particular type of person to relate to.
But you are already tied to a cart that benefits me as well.
It’s hard not to talk about myself when all everyone wants to do is exactly that.
Look what you did to this thread: you took the topic and diverted it to what you perceive I think about me.
How insecure of you. Are you that intimidated by me?
Relax, I’m harmless at this distance.
Now if you would consider something closer then …..


Obviously I beg to differ.
Unless of course, your choosing to "Separate himself from the throng and become uncaring and aloof with its predicaments " in which case you should go back to you mountain eyrie and meditate awhile.
Or you could try reading 'Hamlet' it might give you some ideas. You certainly sound like a renaissance man.
And you sound like a frightened little man.
Please think what you like about what I think about myself.
Now back to the topic….Do you have anything to say on the TOPIC?
No I didn’t think so.


Gosh!
Like a kind of 'reducing valve' you mean?
How original.
First he shows an inability to understand then he feigns previous understanding to mask his original error. Interesting.
Let me recount:
You claimed I was “borderline generalizing” [heard this a million times by morons unable to counter in any other way]. I respond by reminding him [if he knew it at all] that the process of making the world comprehensible to the human mind involves an oversimplification of phenomena that may be much more complicated than they appear. In other words the mind generalizes.
All human knowledge is a generalization in that it takes a minute amount of information and extrapolates general tendencies and rules. Logic is a generalization.

To a moron, like you for example, what seems like too complicated to digest and find patterns in might be for another simple. Said moron, will find that nay deductions made by said none-moron, are too brad interpretations of chaotic phenomena it cannot find patterns within.
For example, an amoeba will find a human being as too broad a generalization for its pathetic perception, it will exist and perish within a smaller ‘specificity sphere’.


Perhaps but I still think Huxley put it better.
Then back to your books, my man. Go and find something to adopt as your own and find some dead guy to not feel threatened by.



So what did you choose?
Dee Cee
Elitism.
I now care only for those of my kind. Others are of another species and I remain indifferent to them.
In fact I want them to remain just as stupid and unaware as they are.

If I wanted to manipulate you I would not be saying what I think but only repeating what you think.
Really?
Do you find that tactic gets you out of barfights?

In the street you would be easy, here where I’ve poured my soul out in public it would be harder.
Err what?
This your soul is it?
Well I guess nobody's perfect but I wouldn't have expected it to be so limited.
As for the public...
Looks like there's nobody here but us drones.
Sorry I forgot. Your not a drone are you?
How do you get away with not paying tax?

I do not want to be anyone’s “messiah”. I couldn’t care less about you or your kind.
Wait until you get hit by a bus then you'll care.
In fact I'm sure you'll come grovelling to 'my kind'.
"Fix me please!"
Don't worry we will.
It's kinda hard to examine the essence of self when the shaft of your femur is poking through your slacks.
Hold on.
didn't you say?

Take the idea of self: is it a specific or a multiplicity of phenomena and instances cooperating in a single entity simplified into a union of one?
Just what are those "multiplicity of phenomena and instances"?
Your not including me I hope.
If you are you may find your 'self' contaminated.
There's some heavy memes in these jeans.
Oh and if your not the messiah then stop acting like him. God may be watching.

My motives are entirely self-serving. I am looking for a particular type of person to relate to.
Err...
Like this dude? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3443293.stm)
Want to swallow up a more positive "multiplicity of phenomena and instances"?
Is that what your looking for?

Kreuzer told Reuters. "But I don't think it is a killing on request either because it was not an altruistic, but an egoistic deed."
Indeed.
Enough. I'm beginning to wander...

But you are already tied to a cart that benefits me as well.
I know.
My choice was to "engage the world and make it better."
That means you too. I never said it was easy.

It’s hard not to talk about myself when all everyone wants to do is exactly that.
Now how does that happen?
Everyone?
Name five.

Look what you did to this thread: you took the topic and diverted it to what you perceive I think about me.
To throw modesty aside, without me It don't look like you'd have much of a thread right now. Guess you need me to keep this puppy swimming. Without me you bait would just slide to the bottom along with all the other little gems you've tossed in of late. How you ever gonna meet that special person when your threads keep sinking.
Excuse the metaphors I just prefer them mixed.

Are you that intimidated by me?
Take a guess.

And you sound like a frightened little man.
You try that in barfights too?

Now back to the topic….Do you have anything to say on the TOPIC?
Yeah I do.
You tell me that one of curses of intellect (in addition to college) is to be faced with a choice.
It ain't quite to be or not to be... but it's close enough to make me laugh.
You submit some generalisation about people you've never met and have the cheek to suggest that generalisations are ok because your brain ain't too good with the detail.
Best of all after a couple of posts you tell me that your "looking for a particular type of person to relate to.".
Form and function sir.
Form and function.
Your credibilty meter is ticking down. I can hear it.

First he shows an inability to understand then he feigns previous understanding to mask his original error. Interesting.
I understood perfectly.
You were wanking again.

All human knowledge is a generalization in that it takes a minute amount of information and extrapolates general tendencies and rules. Logic is a generalization.
Don't ever become a surgeon.

To a moron, like you for example, what seems like too complicated to digest and find patterns in might be for another simple. Said moron, will find that nay deductions made by said none-moron, are too brad interpretations of chaotic phenomena it cannot find patterns within.
Your understanding of non-linear dynamics would make Penrose blush.
Go on tell me your a strange attractor.
At least you base your generalisations on generalisations.
Shows respect for the obscurity of you starting conditions that does.

Then back to your books, my man.
Same books as you it seems.

Elitism.
Isn't that a form of loneliness?

I now care only for those of my kind. Others are of another species and I remain indifferent to them.
You don't seem much like a man of action.
How about "taking arms against a sea of struggle"
Might provide more of a buzz than insulting me.

Or you could always stay a sad pretentious bastard.
What do you choose?
Dee Cee

DeeCee

Really?
Do you find that tactic gets you out of barfights?
Yeup.


Err what?
This your soul is it?
Well I guess nobody's perfect but I wouldn't have expected it to be so limited.
Looking at what you’ve written in here, it appears that you lack a brain as well as a soul.


As for the public...
Looks like there's nobody here but us drones.
Sorry I forgot. Your not a drone are you?
How do you get away with not paying tax?
I can't tell you that idiot.


Wait until you get hit by a bus then you'll care.
In fact I'm sure you'll come grovelling to 'my kind'.
"Fix me please!"
Don't worry we will.
Of course you will. I’m counting on it.


It's kinda hard to examine the essence of self when the shaft of your femur is poking through your slacks.
Hold on.
didn't you say?
That's why we need 'drones".


Just what are those "multiplicity of phenomena and instances"?
Your not including me I hope.
WHAT?!
Do you even understand what I’m saying, retard?
Reread, focus, take a deep breath and hope you grow a few more cells up there.

I am talking about a multiplicity of forces being interpreted by the human mind as a singularity.


If you are you may find your 'self' contaminated.
There's some heavy memes in these jeans.
Oh and if your not the messiah then stop acting like him. God may be watching.
You are so out of touch with what I’m saying that it’s becoming funny now.
Look at how afraid you are that I am insulting you. You see ‘self’ and me in everything I say.
I will repeat slower just for you:
“Reality” is a multiplicity of forces which is interpreted and simplified by the human mind by generalizing it into a singular event or instance.
In order for knowledge to become possible, the mind generalizes concepts that arte far more complicated than they are perceived.
The higher the mind the broader the generalizations, the more patterns it can perceive in chaos.
For example self is an oversimplification of a multiplicity of distinct and often antagonistic drives over which the intellect acts as arbitrator. Whish drive dominates or is most often allowed ‘to have its way’ determines the individuals overall character.
These multiple drives fight over control of the union, known as man, seeking power, control and diffusion.


Want to swallow up a more positive "multiplicity of phenomena and instances"?
Is that what your looking for?
Jeez you are an imbecile. I will proceed with this just to uncover the extent of your stupidity.
You have no idea what I'm talking about do you and you lack the humility to ask?


Indeed.
Enough. I'm beginning to wander...
Uh... that's right I'm a cannibal.


I know.
My choice was to "engage the world and make it better."
That means you too. I never said it was easy.
I like sheep.
They hide their ego and selfishness behind so much altruistic fluff that they eventually come to believe their own bullshit.


Now how does that happen?
Everyone?
Name five.
I believe you haven’t been following the Forum proceedings.
They are watching, they need no exposure and they are smiling as we speak.


To throw modesty aside, without me It don't look like you'd have much of a thread right now. Guess you need me to keep this puppy swimming. Without me you bait would just slide to the bottom along with all the other little gems you've tossed in of late. How you ever gonna meet that special person when your threads keep sinking.
Excuse the metaphors I just prefer them mixed.
Who says I haven’t met that “special person” already?
Poor, poor automaton, you love pretending that your life is better to compensate for the sacrifices you’ve made.


You submit some generalisation about people you've never met and have the cheek to suggest that generalisations are ok because your brain ain't too good with the detail.
Is that what I said?


Isn't that a form of loneliness?
Now you see the dilemma.


You don't seem much like a man of action.
How about "taking arms against a sea of struggle"
Might provide more of a buzz than insulting me.
You poor pathetic moron.
You are funny.
I’m all about action.
Read what I’ve written about the ‘Value of Philosophy’ and ‘Asceticism’ or just sit there and assume.


Or you could always stay a sad pretentious bastard.
What do you choose?
My, my such fear, such insecurity.
An altruistic democrat you may be; a good Christian trying to save the world from itself.
Thank you for existing, little one. You make my life so much easier.

Enough.

“Reality” is a multiplicity of forces which is interpreted and simplified by the human mind by generalizing it into a singular event or instance.
In order for knowledge to become possible, the mind generalizes concepts that arte far more complicated than they are perceived.
The higher the mind the broader the generalizations, the more patterns it can perceive in chaos.
For example self is an oversimplification of a multiplicity of distinct and often antagonistic drives over which the intellect acts as arbitrator. Whish drive dominates or is most often allowed ‘to have its way’ determines the individuals overall character.
These multiple drives fight over control of the union, known as man, seeking power, control and diffusion.

References.

That's why we need 'drones".
And the tick needs the lion.

Do you even understand what I’m saying, retard?
Do you?
Like I give a fuck about the unity or otherwise of conciousness.
Show me the neurophysiology.

I am talking about a multiplicity of forces being interpreted by the human mind as a singularity.
I presume external sensory stimuli will be in the mix somewhere.
all part of the great symphony of self eh?
Today I'm your stimulation. ;)
Do you spend much time around schitzophrenics?
They, at least may give you the time of day.

They hide their ego and selfishness behind so much altruistic fluff that they eventually come to believe their own bullshit.
References :D

Who says I haven’t met that “special person” already?
Because you said you were "looking for a particular type of person to relate to.".
Does your missus know your posting?

Is that what I said?
Until you can put up some research to back the psychobabble. Yes.

Poor, poor automaton, you love pretending that your life is better to compensate for the sacrifices you’ve made.
Stop making stuff up.
You don't have the authority.

Now you see the dilemma.
You don't want to be lonely?

My, my such fear, such insecurity.
Err...
Let some air out before you blow.
Dee Cee

Any civilization is dependant upon the complete indoctrination and ignorance of its population; particularly one that maintains power by giving the illusion of freedom and choice, as the American Empire is.

A wise system of government and a wise people don't pretend to be free, but embrace the barriers around them as necessary to sustain a healthy culture. At least that is the logic in my mind. When you are a kid you go to school and there are many restrictions placed upon everything from your thoughts to your mobility. In turn, this molds a more intelligent form (but also an indoctrined one.) This individuality is the sacrfice you make for that specific knowledge.