When will the truth on racism be told?
THE COLOR OF CRIME

-There is more black-on-white than black-on-black crime.

-Blacks are statistically 50 times more likely to attack whites than vice versa.

-Blacks are twice as likely as whites to commit hate crimes.

-Blacks are as much more dangerous than whites as men are more dangerous than women.

-Of the approximately 1,700,000 interracial crimes of violence involving blacks and whites, 90 percent are committed by blacks against whites.

-Blacks are therefore up to 250 times more likely to do criminal violence to whites than the reverse.

-Blacks commit violent crimes at four to eight times the white rate.

-Hispanics commit violent crimes at approximately three times the white rate, and Asians at one half to three quarters the white rate.

-Blacks are twice as likely as whites to commit hate crimes.

-Hispanics are a hate crime victim category but not a perpetrator category.

-Hispanic offenders are classified as whites, which inflates the white offense rate and gives the impression that Hispanics commit no hate crimes.

http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html

The incidents:

Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Upset about a racial name-calling that occurred earlier that night, several black men savagely beat a random white man who had had nothing to do with the incident. He slipped away from his attackers, but they forced him to swim into a lake to escape. He drowned. The three men were sentenced to less than a year in jail.3

Massachusetts. Four black men decided to murder the next white person they saw. That unlucky soul was a college student from Boston, whom the men stabbed to death.4

Indiana. A black man was arrested for killing seven white people with a shotgun. He explained that he murdered his victims due to his “deep-rooted hatred” of white people.5

Miami, Florida. The leader of a black supremacist sect (i.e., the “Yaweh ben Yaweh cult”) was convicted of the murders of several white people. He ordered his followers to kill any and all “white devils.” They killed at least seven white people, bringing back body parts to their leader.6

North Carolina. Seven black men kidnapped a white woman, raped her, put her in a tub of bleach, shot her five times, and dumped her body. The murderers said they did this for racial reasons.7

North Carolina. Four black teenagers lured a white, ten-year-old girl into an empty house. “There, they sodomized her, strangled her with a cable wire, and beat her to death with a board. In the past few weeks, the trials in the Tiffany Long case have received extensive coverage in the North Carolina press. But with two of the three defendants already sentenced to lifelong prison terms, and the third now standing trial, the national media have all but ignored the story. Only the Associated Press has reported on the trials, in a single, cursory piece. The AP, of course, failed to mention the race of the people involved — an oversight it seldom if ever committed in the case of Amadou Diallo.”8

Boulder, Colorado. After discovering that one of their members had never had sex with a white woman, an Asian gang went looking for one. When they found a white University of Colorado student, the six men gang raped her in their minivan for two hours.

Kansas City, Missouri. An Ethiopian immigrant shot two white coworkers — killing one and critically injuring the other — at his workplace, then turned the gun on himself. At his residence, police found a three-page, signed note he had written in which he railed at “black blood sucker supreme white people” for oppressing him and black people in general.10

New York City. In a Midtown office building, a white woman was assaulted, raped, and anally raped by a black man who called her racist names during the attack. Police refused to label it a hate crime.11

Alexandria, Virginia. A black man walking through a neighborhood went over to a white eight-year-old boy playing in his great-grandparents’ front yard and slit the child’s throat, killing him. A witness says that the attacker shouted racial epithets during the attack, and the main suspect in the case owns anti-white hate literature and had written a note about killing white children. He had been previously arrested for attacking an unarmed white stranger with a hammer. (During the attack, he called his victim “Whitey.”)12

The rap music:

"Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha""Kill d'White People"; Apache, Apache Ain't Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.


"Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long. . . . the white man is the devil. . . . the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I'm recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant. . . . let's go and kill some rednecks. . . . Menace Clan ain't afraid. . . . I got the .380; the homies think I'm crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long. . . . a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I'm gonna blast. . . . I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground";"Kill Whitey"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of what was called Thorn EMI and now is called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.


"A fight, a fight, a nigger and a white, if the nigger don't win then we all jump in. . . . smoking all [of] America's white boys"; "A Fight"; Apache, Apache Ain't Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.

"To all my Universal Soldier's: stay at attention while I strategize an invasion; the mission be ssassination, snipers hitting Caucasians with semi-automatic shots heard around the world; my plot is to control the globe and hold the world hostage. . . . see, I got a war plan more deadlier than Hitler. . . . lyrical specialist, underworld terrorist. . . . keep the unity thick like mud. . . . I pulling out gats [handguns], launching deadly attacks" "Blood for Blood"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom

"Waiting for the crackers; smuggle; his mug is in the gutters. . . . so we need your participation in the Caucasian assassination; time is wasting. . . . so who is in association with the nigger retaliation; it needs your total cooperation. . . . a confrontation will be fought by the younger generation; because we got determination; all we need is organization" "Purse Snatchers"; Onyx, All We Got Iz Us, 1995, Rush Associated Labels Recordings, PolyGram Group Distribution, Philips' Elecronics, Netherlands.

What is your point? These statistics have nothing to do with whether or not a specific person is going to commit a crime, so it's all meaningless.

I'm white so I don't commit crimes...statistically that is:rolleyes:

Might this have possibly something to do with the fact that a disproportionate number of blacks still live in slum conditions amid inescapable poverty and rampant organized crime?

It's quite different when you compare institutionalized discrimination against a random white tourist being gunned down in some ghetto.

This is not to say that the situation vis a vis discrimination has not vastly improved to date. It's certainly better than it ever was.

But social justice will never truly be served until blacks are afforded the same standard of living, education and opportunity as any other racial/ethnic group in US (including whites.)

Until that glorious time when we finally recognize that poverty, not race is the decisive factor in behavioral trends, we'll just have to put up with the typical racist crap as exemplified by your post. :rolleyes:

HEY LOOK, HE SPELLED AMERICA WITH A K! HOW ORIGINAL!

CAN I HAVE YOUR AUTOGRAPH AZRAEL!

I don't see the point of actually constructing an argument to this horseshit, but what the heck, I'm bored.

Check out the statistics on discrimination in the justice system. As I have said before, white people are twice as likely to use cocaine, but there are twice as many black people in jail for it, interesting to say the least.

There is a step system of 'de facto' descrimination built into our justice system. From profiling, to the court room. Cops don't take rich white kids to jail because they believe their parents will deal with them. Fights in white high schools don't get reported to the cops, whereas a fight in a 'black' school can get you jail time. It goes on and on and on, but certainly you have noticed the news items of cops beating the crap out of a black person for apparently no reason, or how about a whole country pissed of because their cops act so prejudiced on the job(the are only human, god save the cops! I can only hope with time this gets better).

Let your imagitation run wild with this if you would. Blacks have an average earning way lower than white people (I think it was something like 32k/year vs 28k, dont quote me, if anyone has it in front of them please share). And we all know rich people get off easier justice wise right?


But social justice will never truly be served until blacks are afforded the same standard of living, education and opportunity as any other racial/ethnic group in US (including whites.)
I'd like to see Azrael grow up under the poverty line and then see whether or not he steals in order to eat.

I'm rather suprised at my ability to stay somewhat calm in the face of such racist stupidity, I must be 'growing up' or something, WOO.

Azreal:

Your point being..........what again?

Since Im such the racist white guy here (but hey according to MTV and the media in general its a bad to thing to be white in america today) let me ask you this, if a black man attacks and rapes a white women while calling her racial slurs is that racism or not?

the reason i spell ameriKa the way I do is because what this country has become is a corruption of what our founding fathers intended it to be. its more important to be politically correct then to take a stand for what is right.

Originally posted by Xev
Azreal:

Your point being..........what again?

I found this and thought it was interesting since these statistics and reports are never really aired to the mass public, they are almost always brushed under the rug.

if you all really want to know why blacks live the way they do, watch MTV, people like Jay-Z, Mystikal, Master P, and other black rappers are always rapping about using drugs, drinking, calling women hoes and bitchs and the gangster life style, and the young teenagers copy this lifestyle. i take no resposibility for their problems.

Originally posted by Azrael
if you all really want to know why blacks live the way they do, watch MTV, people like Jay-Z, Mystikal, Master P, and other black rappers are always rapping about using drugs, drinking, calling women hoes and bitchs and the gangster life style, and the young teenagers copy this lifestyle. i take no resposibility for their problems.

You might try actually acquanting yourself with a few, or living in a black ghetto (I have, both -- tho' I'm white.) Then you'd know that what you see on MTV is not a true reflection of reality. Doesn't take a very high IQ to know that, by the way. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Azrael
Since Im such the racist white guy here (but hey according to MTV and the media in general its a bad to thing to be white in america today) let me ask you this, if a black man attacks and rapes a white women while calling her racial slurs is that racism or not?

the reason i spell ameriKa the way I do is because what this country has become is a corruption of what our founding fathers intended it to be. its more important to be politically correct then to take a stand for what is right.

You are nuts. Who the hell says its bad to be white? Its great, I'm on top of the ladder. I can do whatever I want and get away with it, I get a job even though I have no skills, I get lots of pay even though I read sciforums all day. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK, you are being incredibly sensative.
Everyone knows blacks being racist is no better than whites being racist, that has no actual implications in your thread however.

America has been spelled with a K since at least the 60s to symbolize its fascist tendencies.

Originally posted by Azrael
Since Im such the racist white guy here (but hey according to MTV and the media in general its a bad to thing to be white in america today) let me ask you this, if a black man attacks and rapes a white women while calling her racial slurs is that racism or not?


Yes, there are black racists. There are white racists, asian racists, and generally all sorts of bigots in the world. Happy now? And to echo Xev, what's your point??



the reason i spell ameriKa the way I do is because what this country has become is a corruption of what our founding fathers intended it to be. its more important to be politically correct then to take a stand for what is right.


Well, hopefully with your help we shall soon restore ameriKa to its former glory. :rolleyes:

You seem to be having trouble distinguishing institutional racism from individual racism. The former is a news item; the latter is a boring everyday occurrence. It has nothing to do with PC.

Azreal:

the reason i spell ameriKa the way I do is because what this country has become is a corruption of what our founding fathers intended it to be. its more important to be politically correct then to take a stand for what is right.

Our founding fathers expected America to be a nation of bad spellers, and you're returning to our roots by mis-spelling?

Huh?

Lotus:

America has been spelled with a K since at least the 60s to symbolize its fascist tendencies.

Good spelling is fascism?

Wel, im nawt ay fashyst sow i wil spel badly. iz thiz betr? :p

edit 2 ad:
if blak on wite vilince iz mor comon, iznt thiz becuz ther r more whits then blaks?

teh cia factbok sez that ther ar


Ethnic groups:
white 83.5%, black 12.4%, Asian 3.3%, Amerindian 0.8% (1992)

note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (especially of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)

sorce: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

if whits are betr off financialy, arnt thay mre likly to bee robed?

Good spelling is fascism?

Wel, im nawt ay fashyst sow i wil spel badly. iz thiz betr?

xev, I assure you I did not make up the rules, I just share them.

It has a lot to do, I'm sure, with how americans view the classic fascist state (Italy...Germany (not technically fascism, but whatever), etc). lots of K's in the languages (or moreso than American-English, rihgt??!?), so somehow spelling america as ameriKa means we are fascists! Thats how I think it happened anyways.

I sort of agree with overdoze. I think it would be more telling to show the crime rates by social class.

The problem is that much of the urban poor are black, and crime generally radiates from urban areas (black, white or whatever) because it's a faster way to get ahead. The organized crime families in the early 1900's were mostly white.

On the other hand, the majority of the poor white people in the states live in Appalacia or in the Ozarks, many living in such a way that they don't know other people exist, much less know enough to commit crimes against them.

I'd like to see Azrael grow up under the poverty line and then see whether or not he steals in order to eat.

Sorry to jump in without reading EVERY line, Im on break and dont have time. But this statement above is pure and simple bullshit. I have grown up under the poverty line and didnt have to resort to stealing. And instead of going to school and getting a job, most of the guys that I grew up with would rather sell dope - because its easier. And dont give me this shit that they dont have equal oppurtunities. If your under a certain income bracket - your almost guaranteed a place at any college of your choosing. (Universities excluded). Sorry, I will write more later.

Ta Ta:)

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
What is your point? These statistics have nothing to do with whether or not a specific person is going to commit a crime, so it's all meaningless.

I'm white so I don't commit crimes...statistically that is:rolleyes:

Azrael point is, whites, blacks, asians, hispanics, natives americans all have racists, but whites are not anymore racist than other races. Whites don't have monopoly on racism, I find that to be very true. Other races can be at least equally as racist. How hard is it to understand?

There is more black-on-white than black-on-black crime.

WRONG, 80-90% of the crimes committed by Blacks are Black-on-Black crime. 80% of the crimes committed by Whites are also White-on-White crime.

And a family member is the most likely one to hurt you, not a stranger...


Blacks are statistically 50 times more likely to attack whites than vice versa.

More "fuzzy" math. You must love making up fake stats...

Blacks are twice as likely as whites to commit hate crimes.

More stupidity..., check out the FBI stats is you don't believe me.

http://www.publiceye.org/hate/Statistics.htm


Hispanics are a hate crime victim category but not a perpetrator category.

-Hispanic offenders are classified as whites, which inflates the white offense rate and gives the impression that Hispanics commit no hate crimes.


More lies.


Of the approximately 1,700,000 interracial crimes of violence involving blacks and whites, 90 percent are committed by blacks against whites.

*yawn*, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Check out the main site of this retard's source... http://www.amren.com/ It's just some racist group's propaganda site.

I just looked at that site. Apparently we had 4 hate crimes against atheists/agnostics.

WTF?? I get an image of rogue catholic priests and baptist ministers, in some sort of ghetto, punk habits, hats on sideways doing drive-by baptisms.

I guess it's not funny... the world is just getting so strange.

I just looked at that site. Apparently we had 4 hate crimes against atheists/agnostics.

WTF?? I get an image of rogue catholic priests and baptist ministers, in some sort of ghetto, punk habits, hats on sideways doing drive-by baptisms.

I guess it's not funny... the world is just getting so strange.

Nah, I think they probably were over-zealous Jehovah Witnesses. :D

Originally posted by overdoze
Might this have possibly something to do with the fact that a disproportionate number of blacks still live in slum conditions amid inescapable poverty and rampant organized crime?

True



It's quite different when you compare institutionalized discrimination against a random white tourist being gunned down in some ghetto.

Institutionalized discrimination? Like what?



This is not to say that the situation vis a vis discrimination has not vastly improved to date. It's certainly better than it ever was.

Discrimination is human nature. It can be eased with education, but there will always be discrimination. It is better to just live with it (yes I can say that because I am mostly a person of color) than to constantly whine about it. Some racial rivalry can be a good thing. My entire life I definitely benefited from being discriminated against. It just pushes me to work harder.



But social justice will never truly be served until blacks are afforded the same standard of living, education and opportunity as any other racial/ethnic group in US (including whites.)

Oh please please. Social justice will never be served until blacks decide to strive for better social standings with concrete actions - such as hardwork and discipline. In the past blacks tried to obtain equal opportunities by crying about discrimination. It will only work to a certain point. What you just said would just add fuel to their victim mentality. Both blacks and whites need to do their parts, but ultimately only blacks people can end discrimination against black people. You don't need equal opportunities or standard of living to succeed. Asians are doing pretty well last time I checked. They just leap froged whites in SAT score. Jews are also discriminated against, especially early 1900's.



Until that glorious time when we finally recognize that poverty, not race is the decisive factor in behavioral trends, we'll just have to put up with the typical racist crap as exemplified by your post. :rolleyes:
His posts are backed with facts and figures. You may not like his intent, but there is a lot of truth to it.

There are other things that need to be done but not real obvious. Only 30 some percent of black males have pursued post high school education. 60+% of black females have a college degree. The biggest reason according to survey is that they have to support kids. They have to be the bread winner at a young age. If they can stop fucking around without a condom they will be fine. Of course we can always find an excuse for that, like poverty. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by static76
More stupidity..., check out the FBI stats is you don't believe me.

http://www.publiceye.org/hate/Statistics.htm

More lies.


That site doesn't really tell what race commits hate crime to what race. It only tells who the receiving end is. I have heard there are twice as many black on whites than whites on blacks before many times. I heard it on MSNBC and Fox.

His posts are backed with facts and figures. You may not like his intent, but there is a lot of truth to it.

NO, his posts are backed by lies and exaggerations.

The site he got those "stats" from is http://www.amren.com

Here are some of the Books and Tapes this site sells, tell me if you see a theme...

"Race, Evolution, and Behavior"
"The Relationship Between Blacks and Jews"
"Is There a Superior Race?"
"Equality Unmasked"
"Multiculturalism and the War against White America"
"Race and Nation"
"The Real American Dilemma"
"Race: European Developments"
"Race and the American Right"
"Latest Research on Race"
"Prospects for the New Century"
"The Nationalist Movement in France"
"Racial Hysteria in Britain"
"The Reconquista of California"
"Race and the Real U.S. Constitution"
"Ethnic Nationalism and Genetic-Similarity Theory"
"The Biological Reality of Race"
"The Decline of WASPdom"
"A (Real) Conservative in NYC Politics"
"Why You Are Wrong"
"Racial Partition of the United States"
"Saving Our Civilization"
"Immigration: the Silent Invasion"

Hmmmmm......

It's obvious that this is a propaganda site for White supremists.

I agree. That site is not credible at all.

It's obvious that this is a propaganda site for White supremists.

Well that wouldn't matter if there were some kind of meaning to those statistics. Even if they are 100% they mean nothing.

I agree, and I have no idea why JOE is getting this guys back.

Actually I wouldn't be suprised if this is just an attempt to troll, I can't imagine anyone actually coming onto sciforums and believe this hogwash.:)

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
I agree, and I have no idea why JOE is getting this guys back.


I don't either.

Tell you the truth, if someone's post is longer than 10 lines and not very interesting, I never read through the whole thing. :D

I agree. That site is not credible at all.
Eh? Joe you confuse me:D

I guess you don't have that guys back. anyways....

sorry

Originally posted by Joeman


Oh please please. Social justice will never be served until blacks decide to strive for better social standings with concrete actions - such as hardwork and discipline. In the past blacks tried to obtain equal opportunities by crying about discrimination. It will only work to a certain point. What you just said would just add fuel to their victim mentality. Both blacks and whites need to do their parts, but ultimately only blacks people can end discrimination against black people. You don't need equal opportunities or standard of living to succeed. Asians are doing pretty well last time I checked. They just leap froged whites in SAT score. Jews are also discriminated against, especially early 1900's.


well here is one who strived for better social standings with concrete actions

"An African American judge from Virginia who is suing the LAPD for alleged racial profiling described in federal court Tuesday how police ordered her out of a car at gunpoint, then forced her to lie face down on the hot pavement while in handcuffs after a traffic stop in Venice."

bet they follow her sorry ass around the store too!

full story(membership unfortunately)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-judges31jul31.story?null




does institutional racism mean anything to you joeman?

"I think in part, this state has a false image of itself ... that we [are] different from the rest of the U.S., and we're not. We're as racist as the red hills of Alabama." Chief Judge Kevin Burke, Hennepin County District Court.

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/justice02a.htm

Originally posted by spookz


well here is one who strived for better social standings with concrete actions

"An African American judge from Virginia who is suing the LAPD for alleged racial profiling described in federal court Tuesday how police ordered her out of a car at gunpoint, then forced her to lie face down on the hot pavement while in handcuffs after a traffic stop in Venice."

bet they follow her sorry ass around the store too!

That is not exactly what I have in mind. The best way to end racial profiling on blacks is for blacks not to commit any crimes.



does institutional racism mean anything to you joeman?

"I think in part, this state has a false image of itself ... that we [are] different from the rest of the U.S., and we're not. We're as racist as the red hills of Alabama." Chief Judge Kevin Burke, Hennepin County District Court.

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/justice02a.htm

People are racist. Institutions are made of people. People can always move.

:D

Tell you the truth, if someone's post is longer than 10 lines and not very interesting, I never read through the whole thing.

And I think everyone does that. I have wondered many times if people do not understand what writing for an audience means at this site. Some people, especially on the religion folder will write something a 100+ lines long, I will have to be in a really good mood to read it (doesn't happen often).

State things short and concise or your point will never be heard!:D

ps. the java buttons aren't working tonight!

Originally posted by Joeman
Institutionalized discrimination? Like what?


For example employment or housing discrimination, harsher sentencing/treatment for crime, lowered standards of achievement.



Discrimination is human nature. It can be eased with education, but there will always be discrimination. It is better to just live with it (yes I can say that because I am mostly a person of color) than to constantly whine about it.


It's one thing to whine about it, and another altogether to try and remove some of the fundamental factors that drive it. (More later.) Of course, in the latter context you must still talk about it.



Some racial rivalry can be a good thing. My entire life I definitely benefited from being discriminated against. It just pushes me to work harder.


Good for you that you benefited. However, personally I think a rivalry based on race is a sick notion to begin with.



Oh please please. Social justice will never be served until blacks decide to strive for better social standings with concrete actions - such as hardwork and discipline.


Discipline comes from family tradition. Absent that, it can only come through educational institutions. And if those suck to the point of being staffed by incompetent personnel (with the PE teacher heading up the science curriculum, substitutes teaching English and History on a full-time continuous basis, etc.), overran by gangs, lacking any coherent curriculum and missing even the funding to buy chalk for blackboards (for real; I actually graduated from such a school!) then we really are talking about inequality of opportunity.

Rich folk get a leg up from the moment they are born. The playing field with respect to opportunity must be leveled. That would be social justice.



What you just said would just add fuel to their victim mentality.


There's no question a victim mentality contributes to the problem. But it's not the entire problem.



You don't need equal opportunities or standard of living to succeed. Asians are doing pretty well last time I checked. They just leap froged whites in SAT score. Jews are also discriminated against, especially early 1900's.


That's the thing: most of the ones who are doing well are first- or second-generation immigrants. They or their parents grew up in different social conditions, received much higher quality education and grew into much more disciplined and goal-oriented lifestyles. American blacks do not have such a heritage.

And this is the depressing part. Apparently, old Soviet Union or China or even India can do a better job raising kids than the "wonderful" US.



His posts are backed with facts and figures. You may not like his intent, but there is a lot of truth to it.


Partial and biased facts, and distorted figures out of context. As many have already pointed out. Truth is in the eye of the beholder; you might have observed that in many eyes on this forum those "facts" have little truth. This might tell you something about the objectivity of the "figures" -- depending on what you think about the constituency of these forums.



If they can stop fucking around without a condom they will be fine. Of course we can always find an excuse for that, like poverty. :rolleyes:


Well, actually I agree. Black kids (especially poor ones) tend to have an unhealthy early obsession with sex -- at least according to my experience. That part of the culture needs to change.

But funny you mention poverty: early/single pregnancy (as well as rampant venerial diseases) tend to go hand-in-hand with it not just in US but everywhere around the world. It's a mutual feedback cycle. It might have something to do with the fact that poverty leads to a lifestyle poor in new stimuli and experiences, so people resort to sex and crime to restore some sort of a poignancy to their lives. In fact, sexual infatuations and acts are very much like drugs, chemically as well as psychologically. Chemically, they tend to release "endorphins" into the brain, which are a natural family of chemicals in the same group as morphine. Hence, when leading a dull life full of hardship it's easy to get hooked on the esape, release and euphoria of sex. Similar for the adrenaline rush of crime.

Azreal,

You wasted a lot of time posting this thread when either no one cares or........nope no one cares:D

Originally posted by overdoze

For example employment or housing discrimination, harsher sentencing/treatment for crime, lowered standards of achievement.

Well, that maybe true, but as I said only black people can end racism against black people. If they spend time building on their resume, get perfect credit ratings, but not commit any crimes they would be fine. Ending racism is a two way street. We must do our part and they must do theirs as well.



It's one thing to whine about it, and another altogether to try and remove some of the fundamental factors that drive it. (More later.) Of course, in the latter context you must still talk about it.

What I was getting at is going overboard on crusade against racism and political correctness will harm more than hurt. The reason is the same as raising an infant industry in a country. You protect them in the beginning but you have to slowly remove the protection or they never grow. They have to get used to and make progress in the environment of racism instead of saying they will never make any progress until racism is removed altogether. The biggest reason I support reparation of slavery is that after you pay them off, you can call it "even". There will one less excuse.



That's the thing: most of the ones who are doing well are first- or second-generation immigrants. They or their parents grew up in different social conditions, received much higher quality education and grew into much more disciplined and goal-oriented lifestyles. American blacks do not have such a heritage.

Well, the interesting thing is people are waiting for 2nd generation Asian immigrants to fall the same level as Whites, but that is not happening. According the latest SAT statistics I saw, Asians not only maintain their lead in math, they are closing the gap in English.



And this is the depressing part. Apparently, old Soviet Union or China or even India can do a better job raising kids than the "wonderful" US.

That is because the mentality in US is "No kids will fall behind". Therefore all kids fall behind. The classes are taught at a speed that even the dumbest kids can catch up. In Asia, kids are seperated into different classes according to their test scores. Classes with smarter kids go at a faster speed. It doesn't happen until junior high though. In US that will never happen, because what you will see is mostly Asians and Jews in highest level, Whites next and then blacks and hispanics on the bottom. Schools will appear to be segregated by race. Asian education is better simply because the classes go at a faster pace basically. One lesson we learn from them is that the system is far more important than the funding. In US we put more money per student than any country in the world, but test scores are mediocre.

Well, I am not sure If I agree with your theory on the sex part. China is poor, but the Chinese are one of the most sexually deprived country in the world :D A married couple in US have sex over 100 times per year, France is about 120+, China is about 60+ and Japan is 40+. Japan is the most sexually deprived country in the world :D

Originally posted by Joeman
Ending racism is a two way street. We must do our part and they must do theirs as well.


True enough.



You protect them in the beginning but you have to slowly remove the protection or they never grow.


I agree. Which is the reason I support the end of "affirmative action" as we know it. Though I'd prefer to keep it around in a non-racial (but rather, income-based) form.



The biggest reason I support reparation of slavery is that after you pay them off, you can call it "even". There will one less excuse.


I support it too, but I don't think it would make things 'even'. We still have to level the playing field.

My basic platform is that all people are born equal, and as a result should have the same opportunities and tools in life regardless of whether they are born into a rich or poor family with non-existant or strong work ethic. It's a matter of basic fairness toward each individual. This sort of total equality is in practice impossible, but I believe it can be approximated quite effectively.

As for the need for people to change, I'm with you. However, you have to realize that people can't just change. There will be certain strong-willed exceptions, but overall habits die hard. The best place to foster change is with children. More affluent segments of society must contribute more to improve the development and therefore general attitude of children growing up in poverty.



Well, the interesting thing is people are waiting for 2nd generation Asian immigrants to fall the same level as Whites, but that is not happening. According the latest SAT statistics I saw, Asians not only maintain their lead in math, they are closing the gap in English.


Probably has to do with Asian culture being very family-oriented, so traditions tend to be passed quite efficiently from one generation to the next. Eventually they will even out, as they become "Americanized." I've witnessed this firsthand.



One lesson we learn from them is that the system is far more important than the funding. In US we put more money per student than any country in the world, but test scores are mediocre.


Don't even get me started on the US system. :mad: The problems are far more insidious and numerous than you mentioned. What really bugs me, is the apparent "not invented here" syndrome of the US grade school establishment. If other countries are kicking the shit out of us, what would be so wrong in copying the models that actually work instead of trying to reinvent the wheel??

But as for funding, the facts are misleading. "Per student" funding is a national average. In reality, schools in affluent neighborhoods receive orders of magnitude more money than poor schools. Most schools in US are funded overwhelmingly from local property taxes and/or bonds, which is a bummer for poor localities with low real estate prices and few potential bond investors. This is a fundamental injustice.



China is poor, but the Chinese are one of the most sexually deprived country in the world :D A married couple in US have sex over 100 times per year, France is about 120+, China is about 60+ and Japan is 40+. Japan is the most sexually deprived country in the world :D


But take note: China and Japan are among the most overpopulated countries in the world. How did they get there? It might also help that their cultures tend to be so much more uptight and full of complexes. Not a desirable way to live, IMHO...

Originally posted by Joeman

Well, that maybe true, but as I said only black people can end racism against black people. If they spend time building on their resume, get perfect credit ratings, but not commit any crimes they would be fine. Ending racism is a two way street. We must do our part and they must do theirs as well.

No offense, but do you know what racism is? Why do you say that "only black people can end racism against black people", that's a ridiculous statement. Last time I checked, ALL so-called "races" commit crimes. MOST Blacks are middle-class citizens like yourself, go to work, pay their taxes, and serve their country, just like everyone else.


What I was getting at is going overboard on crusade against racism and political correctness will harm more than hurt. The reason is the same as raising an infant industry in a country. You protect them in the beginning but you have to slowly remove the protection or they never grow. They have to get used to and make progress in the environment of racism instead of saying they will never make any progress until racism is removed altogether. The biggest reason I support reparation of slavery is that after you pay them off, you can call it "even". There will one less excuse.

What crusade are you reffering to, and can you please explain what "political correctness is? Didn't that phrase come from Metal Bands in the late 80's, talking about the Conservative Grammy Awards not having a category for them.

How did it turn into the republican motto...:eek:

The biggest reason I support reparation of slavery is that after you pay them off, you can call it "even". There will one less excuse.

Very few Blacks want reparations. There are about 40 million of us in the country, so even if there was a 4 billion settlement we would only recieve $100 a person.:eek:

Plus why make this generation pay for what a past one did, all that would do is cause resentment.
Reparations are a horrible idea.

Originally posted by static76
No offense, but do you know what racism is?
No. Don't you need some kind of double PH.D. for that?



Why do you say that "only black people can end racism against black people", that's a ridiculous statement.

How so?



Last time I checked, ALL so-called "races" commit crimes. MOST Blacks are middle-class citizens like yourself, go to work, pay their taxes, and serve their country, just like everyone else.

If blacks are exactly the same social economics ladder, there wouldn't be racism to speak of. Last time I checked, blacks do commit more crimes porportional to their population.



What crusade are you reffering to, and can you please explain what "political correctness is? Didn't that phrase come from Metal Bands in the late 80's, talking about the Conservative Grammy Awards not having a category for them.

How did it turn into the republican motto...:eek:
Why is this relevant? Why don't you go first.



Very few Blacks want reparations. There are about 40 million of us in the country, so even if there was a 4 billion settlement we would only recieve $100 a person.

Plus why make this generation pay for what a past one did, all that would do is cause resentment.
Reparations are a horrible idea.

4 billion is only enough to pay Johnny Cockran.

No. Don't you need some kind of double PH.D. for that?

No, just common sense...;)



How so?

Because nothing a "Black" person will change the minds of a racist. Do you think anything would change the KKK's mind about Blacks and Jews. Did the Jews in Germany cause Hitler to be racist against them. Did the Blacks who were segragated bring this on themselves??

I think not.


If blacks are exactly the same social economics ladder, there wouldn't be racism to speak of. Last time I checked, blacks do commit more crimes porportional to their population.

I never said that Blacks are in the same economic ladder as Whites. I said that most are middle-class, and serve and work for America just like any other "group".


Why is this relevant? Why don't you go first.

Hey, you brought it up, not me.


4 billion is only enough to pay Johnny Cockran.

:D

Originally posted by Azrael
When will the truth on racism be told?
THE COLOR OF CRIME ... <snip> ...

First someone advocates destroying entire countries because they are "bad" and now someone else wants to discriminate based on race .... I'm getting a pretty good idea about the ethos on this site [:)]

Just a few points ...

1. Correlation does not imply causation. If 2 phenomena (for eg. propensity to crime and race) show a positive correlation, then it does not necessarily mean that one caused the other - it could very well mean that a third factor (for eg. poverty, lack of education, poor health care etc) caused both.

2. Discrimination is wrong, not because there are no average differences between groups. There are. Its wrong because intra-group variance is far more than inter-group variance. And by pegging each member of the group into an average slot, you ignore this intra-group variance altogether.

- Sivakami.

I really think that the discussion would be better served discussing the crime statistics of the lower class, as opposed to the middle or upper class. All of the statistics that have been given continues to equate black people with poor people. Is that really the case? I'll grant that there amount of visible minority poor seems like a disproportionate amount of the poor, and that because of this, minorities are getting sub-standard education because of the fact that they are minorities. But there are white families who are dirt poor too, and in urban areas, and those people are all having problems getting a good education. Unfortunately, we do not see the majority of the white poor, because they live in rural areas, far away from the cameras, and removed enough that crime really isn't an option for them. Everyone's poor around them for 300 miles in every direction, who the hell are they going to steal from?




Do you think anything would change the KKK's mind about Blacks and Jews

No, but I don't think that Jesus himself coming down and saying "Fucking stop it" would change their minds. The minds that need to be changed are the passive racists who don't go to rallies but think that black means stupid and jew means rich and asian means good with computers.

Riomacleod,
I really think that the discussion would be better served discussing the crime statistics of the lower class, as opposed to the middle or upper class. All of the statistics that have been given continues to equate black people with poor people. Is that really the case? I'll grant that there amount of visible minority poor seems like a disproportionate amount of the poor, and that because of this, minorities are getting sub-standard education because of the fact that they are minorities. But there are white families who are dirt poor too, and in urban areas, and those people are all having problems getting a good education. Unfortunately, we do not see the majority of the white poor, because they live in rural areas, far away from the cameras, and removed enough that crime really isn't an option for them. Everyone's poor around them for 300 miles in every direction, who the hell are they going to steal from? I think the proportion of poor blacks is more than the proportion of poor whites. It is true that blacks do score a little lower, on average, than whites in I.Q tests and stuff, but I attribute that to poor nutrition (not only in the current generation, but also the previous 2-3) and education. Similarly Asians are said to score higher, but that could again be because of the higher competition they are used to. They drive themselves harder each step of the way.


No, but I don't think that Jesus himself coming down and saying "Fucking stop it" would change their minds. The minds that need to be changed are the passive racists who don't go to rallies but think that black means stupid and jew means rich and asian means good with computers. Ethnocentrism and Xenophobia are genetic. So its hardly surprising that people tend to stereotype and degrade other races.

- Sivakami.

I would be very suprised to see that the number of black poor is a greater proportion of the black population than the number of white poor as a percent of the white population. When we look at "the poor" we invariably look at our inner cities. Why is that? because it's the best concentration of poor in an area, because the only reason that "the poor" are talked about is for election bids and tax levies, and because they are dragging down the mean education score for the city, because schools are funded on property taxes. On the other hand, Appalacian mining towns, where everyone is poor and the standard of education can barely be met never really show up on the news. These places are really where the bulk of the white poor are, and in many cases, the white poor don't show up on census or polling information, because of their extreme remoteness to anything worth reporting.

Whatever you may wish to be true Riom., black people's average yearly income is still about 10 grand less than that of white people.

http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/Race-and-money.html

Lots of information collected from the latest census. Read it and realize for yourself just how true 'equal opportunity' really is.

Originally posted by Riomacleod
I would be very suprised to see that the number of black poor is a greater proportion of the black population than the number of white poor as a percent of the white population. I remember seeing evidence for this (stats posted on another forum) too. Why dont we look at the real numbers instead of speculating in thin air ?

- S.

Why dont we look at the real numbers instead of speculating in thin air ?
And why don't you read the posts instead of speculating that they don't have real numbers.

Whatever you may wish to be true Riom., black people's average yearly income is still about 10 grand less than that of white people.

Well thats a great reason to commit crime:rolleyes:

As a full-time student, i'm earning NO money at all. Yet I don't go robbing banks. Weird, huh? Average income and crap like that are not valid excuses for crime.

Well thats a great reason to commit crime

Who said it was?


Yet I don't go robbing banks. Weird, huh? Average income and crap like that are not valid excuses for crime.

same.


But if you can't see how it affects the statistics of crime then you are blind. hmmm whos more likely to commit crime, those that grow up in a crime ridden poor as shit inner city or in a affluent white suburb?!!?!?

Here's the deal: People should be judged and evaluated on an individual basis.

All these statics, generalities, assessments, etc. are grouping millions of people together. What good are they? Where does Tiger Woods fall in these statistics?


I think the proportion of poor blacks is more than the proportion of poor whites. It is true that blacks do score a little lower, on average, than whites in I.Q tests and stuff, but I attribute that to poor nutrition (not only in the current generation, but also the previous 2-3) and education. Similarly Asians are said to score higher, but that could again be because of the higher competition they are used to. They drive themselves harder each step of the way.
You may be right. But I think these numbers are useless anyhow. How is someone 'black'? What if they are 30% black and 70% white? Obviously, individuals break these generalities everyday, so what is the point?

Nothing productive will be gained by attempting to group people by race.

The reason for Black and Latino crime rates in America is the so-called "Drug War". Prohibition on drugs has done nothing but put money into the hands Organized Crime and street gangs.

If I'm correct, about half of the people in US jails are in for drug offences (something that shouldn't even be a crime). A MAJOR percentage of the Black and Latino population lives in the inner-city where illegal drug trafficing is rampant. About 85% of the crimes commit by Blacks is against other Blacks, the same goes for Latinos and Whites.

If we legalized drugs, the money would dry up for most of organized crime, and about 90% of street gangs would disappear in 5 years. Of course the DEA, and prison lobbys will never allow this to happen.:(

If we legalized drugs, the money would dry up for most of organized crime, and about 90% of street gangs would disappear in 5 years. Of course the DEA, and prison lobbys will never allow this to happen.
Ya but what other kind of social ills would be introduced into society as a result...While I agree- it doesn't make sense to send someone to jail for a long time for personal drug use- I'm hesitant to say we should legalize it all.

Would setting up special 'coffee shops' where the drug is managed by the government and taxed the hell out of work. Wouldn't underground drugs still exist then? I suppose this is offtopic as all hell, sorry.

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers

Ya but what other kind of social ills would be introduced into society as a result...While I agree- it doesn't make sense to send someone to jail for a long time for personal drug use- I'm hesitant to say we should legalize it all.

Would setting up special 'coffee shops' where the drug is managed by the government and taxed the hell out of work. Wouldn't underground drugs still exist then? I suppose this is offtopic as all hell, sorry.

What social ills would be introduced??? Drugs are already easily available, unfortuanately all the money is going to Organized Crime and street gangs. How do you think they afford top of the line weapons, and how do you think they recruit new members, with drug money.

If we legalized drugs, the money would dry up for most of organized crime, and about 90% of street gangs would disappear in 5 years.

Sorry but your wrong. Last I heard gangs fought over turfs, not drugs:rolleyes:

Originally posted by *stRgrL*


Sorry but your wrong. Last I heard gangs fought over turfs, not drugs:rolleyes:

Do you understand why turf is so important? I understand the street gang situation greatly. The CIA brought drugs into the innercities and street gangs grew greatly over the last 25 years.

http://www.ciadrugs.com/

The reason for the explosion of gangs over the last couple of decades is related to the money that can be made in them. When an inner-city kid sees gang members driving around in expensive cars and living the life, and then see their parents struggling in a 9to5 job, the money can be tempting.

This is why their are so many "suburban" gangs of upper middle-class kids. Drug money is so plentiful that many teenagers are corrupted. If drugs were legal again, then the money would dry up, along with the appeal of being in a gang.

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers

But if you can't see how it affects the statistics of crime then you are blind. hmmm whos more likely to commit crime, those that grow up in a crime ridden poor as shit inner city or in a affluent white suburb?!!?!?
We all have free will. We all have the choice. I did not grow up in an affluent white suburb, and I do not rob banks or commit murder. I have no sympathy for weasels who blame their surroundings when they deal drugs, rape or murder, or whatever. It is entirely their own choice which is to blame.

Thank you Adam. Well said:)

We all have free will. We all have the choice. I did not grow up in an affluent white suburb, and I do not rob banks or commit murder. I have no sympathy for weasels who blame their surroundings when they deal drugs, rape or murder, or whatever. It is entirely their own choice which is to blame.

100% correct.

We all have free will. We all have the choice. I did not grow up in an affluent white suburb, and I do not rob banks or commit murder. I have no sympathy for weasels who blame their surroundings when they deal drugs, rape or murder, or whatever. It is entirely their own choice which is to blame.
"well said":rolleyes:

Comeone man, no one is trying to 'justify' crime. sheesh. This thread started with shitty statistics and it is being put to rest with shitty statistics. You act as if people are not influenced by their surroundings, study intro psychology and maybe you'll learn somthing...its nurture AND nature.

You act as if people are not influenced by their surroundings, study intro psychology and maybe you'll learn somthing

True, we are influenced. But growing up in the ghetto, I still do not have the right to sell drugs and shoot people. And yes, some people in here are trying to justify crime.

And yes, some people in here are trying to justify crime.
As far as I can tell everyone is simply saying that the original statistics are total shit, for a myriad of reasons. This includes social background.

Originally posted by *stRgrL*


True, we are influenced. But growing up in the ghetto, I still do not have the right to sell drugs and shoot people. And yes, some people in here are trying to justify crime.

I don't think anyone's justifying these actions, just giving reasons for them. The original post was using stats contrived from an obviously racist propaganda site.

Once again, you end the "War on drugs", you end most street gangs. Drug money attract teenagers to crime, and drug money allows criminals to buy guns and run their operations.

Check this article out, http://www.lindesmith.org/news/DailyNews/2million_inmates2.html

"Many Americans worry, the Times explains, that the nation’s lock-down is not motivated by fair retribution but moral righteousness--the desire to draw a line between "us," the law-abiding public, and "them," an irredeemable class often comprised of the poor, the mentally ill, and people of color. "The whole thrust of everything now is to perceive and define people who offend society as being a breed apart from the rest of humanity,” one inmate, who is African American, told the newspaper.

In his case, as in many others, race is often the subtext, an unspoken code that contributes to the perception of criminals as "The Other," a distinct and deviant caste. Although blacks make up about 13% of the U.S. population, they constitute 50% of the state and federal prison population. The odds that a black man will do time at some point in his life are 1 in 3; for whites, it is 1 in 25.

The disparity has only increased under the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted young black males. Most racial and ethnic groups consume drugs at roughly the same rates, meaning that whites account for about 75% of the nation's drug users. Blacks, however, account for about 75% of the nation's drug prisoners, a function largely of law enforcement priorities and a lack of resources for treatment.

The Times reports that many critics planned to use the occasion of America's 2 millionth prisoner to take special aim at the drug war, condemning it as destructive and hypocritical. In rallies and vigils across the country, groups like the November Coalition and Common Sense for Drug Policy assailed the "prison-industrial complex" for being as noxious as the ills it purports to remedy"

The disparity has only increased under the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted young black males.

Targeted? Ya, okay. Maybe because the majority of drug dealers are black. And just because the facts came from an obvious rascist site, does not mean they are incorrect. I dont know though, I havent checked for the facts. But I do know that 1 in 3 black males will go through some form of corrections in their life. And that, is a fact. Forget the reasons they commit crime, or the life that they have lived - they commit crime more than any other race. And I am not prejudice, but the facts are facts.

Targeted? Ya, okay. Maybe because the majority of drug dealers are black. And just because the facts came from an obvious rascist site, does not mean they are incorrect. I dont know though, I havent checked for the facts. But I do know that 1 in 3 black males will go through some form of corrections in their life. And that, is a fact. Forget the reasons they commit crime, or the life that they have lived - they commit crime more than any other race. And I am not prejudice, but the facts are facts.

True stRgrL, but you skipped the part after you quoted...

"The disparity has only increased under the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted young black males. Most racial and ethnic groups consume drugs at roughly the same rates, meaning that whites account for about 75% of the nation's drug users. Blacks, however, account for about 75% of the nation's drug prisoners, a function largely of law enforcement priorities and a lack of resources for treatment. "

It's showing that while 75% of drug users are white, 75% of drug prisoners are Black. Check out these reports, http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/

If Blacks are only 13% of the population and use drugs at the same rate as other races, Yet make up 75% of the drug prisoners, then you have a huge difference in justice. When you also consider that most of the new inmates and half the people already in jail are in because of "drug offences", you start to see the problem.

Check out this USA Today article... http://www.usatoday.com/news/comment/columnists/wickham/wick041.htm

"While 49% of crack users in 1998 were white, just 34% were black and 17% Hispanic, according to the National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information. But in that same year, blacks were 85% of those convicted for selling crack, Hispanics were 9%, and whites were 6%, according to the U.S. Sentencing Commission.

Last year, whites were 74% of powder cocaine users, Hispanics 13% and blacks 12%. But in 1998, blacks were 31% of those who ended up in federal prison for selling powder cocaine, Hispanics 49% and whites only 19%."

Last year, whites were 74% of powder cocaine users, Hispanics 13% and blacks 12%. But in 1998, blacks were 31% of those who ended up in federal prison for selling powder cocaine, Hispanics 49% and whites only 19%."

Dude, using drugs and selling drugs are 2 totally different things. You cannot compare the two. Well, you can, but its still not the same thing. The majority of crack or cocaine sellers, carry a gun. Therefore are more likely to shoot people. People that use drugs are not walking around with guns looking for someone to jack. Common now...

Dude, using drugs and selling drugs are 2 totally different things. You cannot compare the two. Well, you can, but its still not the same thing. The majority of crack or cocaine sellers, carry a gun. Therefore are more likely to shoot people. People that use drugs are not walking around with guns looking for someone to jack. Common now...

stRgrL, the majority of drug dealers are White, the point of the article is to show how unbalanced the justice system can be. I'll repeat it again,

"While 49% of crack users in 1998 were white, just 34% were black and 17% Hispanic, according to the National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information. But in that same year, blacks were 85% of those convicted for selling crack, Hispanics were 9%, and whites were 6%, according to the U.S. Sentencing Commission.

Last year, whites were 74% of powder cocaine users, Hispanics 13% and blacks 12%. But in 1998, blacks were 31% of those who ended up in federal prison for selling powder cocaine, Hispanics 49% and whites only 19%.

"If most of the crack and powder cocaine dealers are black, then inner-city streets ought to be overrun with white users trying to buy these drugs,'' said Marc Mauer of the Sentencing Project, a Washington, D.C., organization that promotes criminal justice reform. ''That they aren't suggests that something is wrong."

While 49% of crack users in 1998 were white, just 34% were black and 17% Hispanic, according to the National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information. But in that same year, blacks were 85% of those convicted for selling crack, Hispanics were 9%, and whites were 6%, according to the U.S. Sentencing Commission.

You need to re-read your article. It says, 49% of crack users are white, 85% of those convicted for selling crack was black.

Nice try though....:)

"If most of the crack and powder cocaine dealers are black, then inner-city streets ought to be overrun with white users trying to buy these drugs,

I dont get this statement??? So this guy is saying that if most of the dealers are white, then most of users has to be white? I still dont get it...

You need to re-read your article. It says, 49% of crack users are white, 85% of those convicted for selling crack was black.

Ah, but your still missing my point. Drug dealers have their own "turf", and sell in their neoghborhoods. If 34% of crack users are black, how are they supporting 85% of the drug dealers. And how can only 6% of white drug dealers support 49% of the users.:rolleyes: The article was showing the difference in jail sentencing between "crack", which is the inner-city form of coke, and cocaine, which is the surburban form of coke.

These stats are based on convictons, not on the actually amount selling. Once again, if blacks use drugs at the same rate as whites, 13% Black, 75% White, then how are 75% of drug prisoners in jail Black. I don't think it has anything to do with racism, I just think inner-city people are easier targets for the Billion dollar industry of the "Drug War".

Check this out... http://w3.ag.uiuc.edu:8001/Liberty/Tales/CrimeAndDrugWar.Html


In 1907, when Georgia and Oklahoma made the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors illegal state wide, the homicide rate in the United States was 1 person per 100,000 per year.[2] Before the end of the decade, 13 states plus Alaska, Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia had gone dry.[6] By 1919--when the 18th amendment was passed, making alcohol use illegal nationwide--the homicide rate had grown to 8 per 100,000. The murder rate climbed steadily until it peaked at 10 per 100,000 around 1933, when our nation admitted its mistake, and repealed the 18th amendment. By 1943 the homicide rate had drastically shrunk to 5 per 100,000 and stayed near that level until 1964 when the United States made the same mistake all over again (see graphic).[2]

In December of 1964, having been ratified by 40 countries, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961 went into effect restricting narcotic drug use to medical and scientific purposes. It also internationally banned narcotic drug trade outside of government monopolies.[8] History was about to repeat itself. From 1964 to 1970 in the United States, the number of state prisoners incarcerated for drug offenses more than doubled from 3,079 to 6,596 (it was 90,000 in 1989)[9], and the new concentration on enforcing victimless crimes caused the homicide rate to skyrocket. Between 1964 and 1970 the homicide rate doubled from 5 per 100,000 to 10 per 100,000, where it has remained, with minor fluctuations, until today.[2] Lyndon Johnson had declared war on drugs, to be followed by Richard Nixon declaring War on Drugs in 1969, Ronald Reagan declaring War on Drugs in 1982, and George Bush declaring War on Drugs in 1989.[4]

At the turn of the century, both heroin and aspirin were legally available and sold for approximately the same amount. Today aspirin can be purchased at the corner drug store for 20 cents per gram; heroin costs $50 per gram. [p. 33, 3] The price of heroin rose drastically after it was made illegal due to the dangers involved in its sale. Dealers are willing to kill each other for profits obtained from such a lucrative market; junkies are willing to rob and kill for money to support their habit--money, if drugs were legal and cheap, that they could easily obtain by working at McDonald's. You and I, through high crime rates caused by the War on Drugs and high tax rates used to support the War on Drugs, pay the price. During prohibition "liquor store" owners murdered each other to protect their turf just as drug dealers do today. Today, liquor store owners are generally peaceful. Eliminating the enormous profits involved in black-market businesses eliminates the motive for violent crime, and therefore the violent crime.

More law enforcement is commonly touted as the answer to America's violent crime problem. Since 1970 the percentage of the American population in prison has tripled with no noticeable effect on the homicide rate.[2] More than 1.3 million citizens are now in jail.[p. 24, 3] The United States has a larger percentage of its population in prison than any other nation[2], and still maintains the highest homicide rate in the industralized world. [1] We have even thrown away parts of our constitution in the name of fighting crime. Asset forfeiture laws allow law enforcement officers to seize the property of American citizens without even charging them with a crime, even though the 5th amendment to the constitution clearly states "No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." Of course if you want your property back you do have the right to post a bond and try to prove yourself innocent, of a crime you have not even been charged with, in a court of law. No attorney will be provided for you if you cannot afford one. Over $2.4 billion worth of assets have been seized since 1985, $664 million in 1991 alone--and in 80% of the cases no charges were ever filed.[7]

Disparities between the poor and the rich are often considered causes of our high crime rate, but the United States has not only one of the world's highest crime rates, but also one of the world's largest middle classes. The religious right claims America's huge crime rate is caused by a break-down of family values. This would require family values breaking down suddenly in 1907, returning in 1933, and suddenly breaking down again in 1964. Many liberals believe that America's large crime rate is due to our lack of gun-control laws, but America's gun-control policy has changed little throughout this century. There is no way gun control can explain the enormous fluctuations in America's homicide rate. The United States government's substance control policies are the only answer. The only way to lower America's violent crime rate, short of turning the United States into a totalitarian state, is through ending the War on Drugs.

The growing list of people who support decriminalization of drugs in America include: William F. Buckley, George Carlin, George Crockett, Alan Dershowitz, Phil Donahue, Hugh Downs, Milton Friedman, Ira Glasser, Michael Kinsley, David Letterman, John McLaughlin, Andy Rooney, Carl Sagan, Kurt Schmoke, Tom Selleck, George Shultz, George Silver, Tom Snyder, Robert Sweet, Thomas Szasz, Garry Trudeau, and Donald Trump.[
[2]

Originally posted by *stRgrL*


I dont get this statement??? So this guy is saying that if most of the dealers are white, then most of users has to be white? I still dont get it...

75% of drug users are white, yet 75% of those in jail for drugs are black, that's a huge difference in justice.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm

"At the present time, one-fourth of all of the young black men in America are either in prison or on parole. Most of them were arrested on non-violent drug charges.

In Washington, DC, the Bush administration's "demonstration" city, half of all of the black men in the city are currently in jail or on parole. More than ninety percent have arrest records. The same is true of inner city black men in Baltimore, New York, New Jersey, and Florida.

Two-thirds of all of today's black male high school students will be dead, disabled, or in prison before their thirtieth birthday. The majority will go to prison because of non-violent drug charges. For every black man who goes to college, three will go to prison."

Static,

Okay, I get it. And its true about most of them being in there for drug charges. Ill give that to you. But I still dont see the relationship between the amount of users and the amount of sellers. You think that blacks only have blacks as clientele? And vise versa with whites? Not true. When I used to sell drugs the majority of people buying weed was white. Yet allllll the crack that I used to sell was going to blacks. Not that this makes a difference or anything....


But let me say this.... The facts still stand, even the ones you posted - and no one is holding a gun to these drug dealers heads and making them sell drugs. There are alternate ways to obtain money. Like, hmmmm lets say... WORK!

Take care, good arguement:)

hahahahah, ok strgrl you said you grew up poor but didn't turn into a criminal right?


When I used to sell drugs the majority of people buying weed was white.

I dont know where you lived, but if you got caught doing that in the ghetto you'd probably be serving serious jail time.

I don't mean to judge you, I don't care what you do or did do. But i think its funny that you were trying to say that your background does not affect at all your likelyhood of becoming a criminal....

And on top of all that, you really don't see something wrong in a statistic like this:

75% of drug users are white, yet 75% of those in jail for drugs are black, that's a huge difference in justice.
It screams volumes to me about our justice system.

Okay lotus, your pretty funny. I was 16 and it was the easiest way to get money. I also quit selling 1 year later and havent since. So your argument is invalid. When I was deemed an adult on my 18th birthday, I quit doing illegal business. And I am from the ghetto, so I know exactly what goes on there. It was easy and cool to do. It doesnt make it right.


It screams volumes to me about our justice system.

No, it says the majority of drug dealers are black and the majority of users are white. What is the injustice? Your taking something and calling it something else. Thats bullsh*t.

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
Static,

Okay, I get it. And its true about most of them being in there for drug charges. Ill give that to you. But I still dont see the relationship between the amount of users and the amount of sellers. You think that blacks only have blacks as clientele? And vise versa with whites? Not true. When I used to sell drugs the majority of people buying weed was white. Yet allllll the crack that I used to sell was going to blacks. Not that this makes a difference or anything....


But let me say this.... The facts still stand, even the ones you posted - and no one is holding a gun to these drug dealers heads and making them sell drugs. There are alternate ways to obtain money. Like, hmmmm lets say... WORK!

Take care, good arguement:)

Come on stRgrL, I'm not saying that all of black drug dealer's clientele is black. But if you think that 75% of drug dealers are black then you are mistaken.:p

Most whites and blacks get drugs from their neighborhood, friends, or places they hang out. When 75% of drug users are white, you expect at least 60-70% of dealers to be white from common knowledge.

You say that you yourself sold drugs, how did you get your clients?

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
Okay lotus, your pretty funny. I was 16 and it was the easiest way to get money. I also quit selling 1 year later and havent since. So your argument is invalid. When I was deemed an adult on my 18th birthday, I quit doing illegal business. And I am from the ghetto, so I know exactly what goes on there. It was easy and cool to do. It doesnt make it right.


Do you think you should be serving 10 years in jail stRgrl?;)

Most of the people being put into prisons are like YOU, When most of the new inmates are non-violient drug offenders, there is a problem.

"Prisoners sentenced for drug offenses constitute the largest group of Federal inmates (57%) in 2000, up from 53% in 1990 (table 20). On September 30, 2000, the date of the latest available data in the Federal Justice Statistics Program, Federal prisons held 73,389 sentenced drug offenders, compared to 30,470 at yearend 1990."

In 2000, drug law violators comprised 21% of all adults serving time in State prisons - 251,100 out of 1,206,400 State prison inmates.

Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions.

"Between 1984 and 1999, the number of defendants charged with a drug offense in U.S. district courts increased about 3% annually, on average, from 11,854 to 29,306."

"As a result of increased prosecutions and longer time served in prison, the number of drug offenders in Federal prisons increased more than 12% annually, on average, from 14,976 during 1986 to 68,360 during 1999."

All major Western European nations' incarceration rates are about or below 100 per 100,000. In the United States, in 2001, the incarceration rate for African-American women was 199 per 100,000, and for African-American men 3,535 per 100,000. The rate of incarceration for Hispanic women is 61 per 100,000, and for Hispanic men the rate is 1,177 per 100,000. The rate of incarceration for white women is 36 per 100,000, and for white men the rate is 462 per 100,000.

No, I dont think 10 years is a fair sentence for drug dealers. Not at all. I do think we should take a serious look at our drug laws. But that doesnt take away from the fact that at the moment it is illegal and if you are caught selling - you will do time in jail. Everyone knows this, there is a way around this problem "Dont sell drugs unless you are willing to go to jail" And this applies to ALL races - doesnt matter what color you are.

. I was 16 and it was the easiest way to get money. I also quit selling 1 year later and havent since. So your argument is invalid. When I was deemed an adult on my 18th birthday, I quit doing illegal business.

But that doesnt take away from the fact that at the moment it is illegal and if you are caught selling - you will do time in jail. Everyone knows this, there is a way around this problem


So what are you saying? That social setting isn't a factor, but age is a qualifier as an excuse? who's full of bullsh*t now?

I was 16 once but I didn't sell drugs.

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
No, I dont think 10 years is a fair sentence for drug dealers. Not at all. I do think we should take a serious look at our drug laws. But that doesnt take away from the fact that at the moment it is illegal and if you are caught selling - you will do time in jail. Everyone knows this, there is a way around this problem "Dont sell drugs unless you are willing to go to jail" And this applies to ALL races - doesnt matter what color you are.

I'm not really disagreeing with much of what you say, my problem was with the original poster of this thread posting an article that drew idiotic conclusions from this data.

I agree when you say,"Dont sell drugs unless you are willing to go to jail". HOWEVER, those in the inner-city are "targeted more than others", that's why I have been posting these articles. I'm sure most of those convicted of those drug charges were guilty, But why does our justice system focus mainly on them and not the whole society equally.

If Blacks are only 13% of the population and use drugs at the same rate as other races, Yet make up 75% of the drug prisoners, then you have a huge difference in justice. When you also consider that most of the new inmates and half the people already in jail are in because of "drug offences", you start to see the problem.

Why are we filling our prisons with non-violent offenders. I ask again, do you think you belonged in jail at 16..., because thousands of blacks teenagers are in prison for the same things you did.

The Reporter reviewed records, obtained from the Circuit Court of Cook County for 110,219 cases from 1995 through 2000 with individuals facing only drug possession or delivery charges.

During that six-year period, the courts convicted and sentenced defendants in more than 63,000 cases. Forty-six percent of black defendants were sentenced to prison, 30 percent of Latinos and 20 percent of whites.

http://www.chicagoreporter.com/2002/1-2002/drug/drug1.htm

The Reporter also found:
• Blacks and Latinos with multiple drug convictions or prison records received harsher penalties than whites with similar criminal histories.

• Whites with three or more drug convictions were sentenced to probation more often than prison, while blacks and Latinos went to prison more often.

• For all but the most severe offenses, whites were most likely to be convicted, but least likely to be sentenced to prison.

• Whites are three times as likely as blacks to receive a special probation that allows a charge to be expunged if the probation was successfully completed. Latinos were twice as likely as blacks.

• Blacks were more likely to be charged with more serious offenses than Latinos and whites.

“This contributes to much of the perception that the war on drugs has been a war on the people of color’s drug use,” said Marc Mauer, assistant director at the Sentencing Project, a research and advocacy organization based in Washington, D.C., that examines criminal justice policy.

His 1995 study found that blacks accounted for 35 percent of drug arrests nationwide but 74 percent of those sentenced to prison for drug possession charges. In Chicago, police and court records show that in 2000, blacks accounted for 79 percent of the drug arrests but 93 percent of those sentenced to prison for charges stemming from those arrests, according to a Reporter analysis.

Someone mentioned something about "you should study psychology", as though such a statement negates the fact that we have free will. In case you're interested, I did study some psychology, and never found anything in it which negates free will, apart from physical imposition on another or death. The more you allow your situation to dictate your choices, the weaker your will; the more you are guided by your own standards and ideals, the stronger your will.

There is no reason why someone who grows up in a poor, high-population-density area must wake up one day and say "Bloody hell, I'm poor! I'd better go sell drugs!" There is no reason why such a person must suddenly say "My neighbour has a gun, I'd better go sell drugs!" We all have the choice. Many, unfortunately, choose the easiest path to immediate gratification, rather than considering any larger perspective. That is their choice.

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers

And why don't you read the posts instead of speculating that they don't have real numbers.

I have.
Thats why I posted ..."Why dont we look at the real numbers ..." !

My, this group sure is jumpy !

- S.

Originally posted by *stRgrL* Well thats a great reason to commit crime:rolleyes:

Understanding why something happens does not imply condoning it. Who says we should not punish the criminals ?!

- Sivakami.

Originally posted by Adam
Someone mentioned something about "you should study psychology", as though such a statement negates the fact that we have free will. In case you're interested, I did study some psychology, and never found anything in it which negates free will, apart from physical imposition on another or death. The more you allow your situation to dictate your choices, the weaker your will; the more you are guided by your own standards and ideals, the stronger your will.

There is no reason why someone who grows up in a poor, high-population-density area must wake up one day and say "Bloody hell, I'm poor! I'd better go sell drugs!" There is no reason why such a person must suddenly say "My neighbour has a gun, I'd better go sell drugs!" We all have the choice. Many, unfortunately, choose the easiest path to immediate gratification, rather than considering any larger perspective. That is their choice.
Things aren't so flippin black and white Adam. Give me a break, of course we have free will, but things influence that. And many many many people are open to influence, in fact most of your traits and characteristics are no doubt results of your socialization process (ie your surroundings), so don't feed us that bull sh*t about free will overriding everything.
:D I love this thread, JUMPY ILL SHOW YOU JUMPY!

So what are you saying? That social setting isn't a factor, but age is a qualifier as an excuse? who's full of bullsh*t now?

Uhhh.. yeah! When you are a 16 year old who yourself is under the influence of drugs -and at that age your more proned to be influenced by your surroundings. Im not talking about minors or anyone incapable of making rash decisions. Im talking about adults who sell drugs and cry that they its not fair that they are in jail and noone else is. Get it?


ssivakami

Sorry, I dont understand your last question.


Take care:)

I'm sorry but the fact that you think age is an excuse (especially the fairly mature age of 16) but you say social setting isn't is total trash.

Uhhh.. yeah! When you are a 16 year old who yourself is under the influence of drugs -and at that age your more proned to be influenced by your surroundings. Im not talking about minors or anyone incapable of making rash decisions. Im talking about adults who sell drugs and cry that they its not fair that they are in jail and noone else is. Get it?
And then you go on to say that the DRUGS THEMSELVES had something to do with the influencing.

Again I say to you, using the same logic you used previously against social factors, many of us here on this thread were 16 but did not use or sell drugs by our own choice.


Did you ever think that maybe your social setting influenced you at a very influencial age?! I mean, imagine if you grew up where drugs weren't so prevalent, or you never met friends who thought it was fun and/or cool to use drugs. This is what I think of when I consider growing up in a crime ridden, poor neighborhood. Sure I am fairly certain I would not have given into pressures and influences, but who's to say for sure. If hte pressure isn't there it sure makes my life a lot easier.

Okay, I see your point. In fact your right. But again, I will say when your are deemed an adult, you are responsible for your own actions. And yes, social settings do influence people. But either
1) Their young and stupid (like I was)
or
2) Their under influence of drugs and are not making rash decisions (like I was)
or
3) They are extemely weak-minded individuals (like I was)

When I hit 18, I knew very well that my lifestyle was going to either get me killed or get me thrown in jail. So I decided to change. I guess because I did it and I see how some people from the ghetto that had the lifestyle I had, cry FOUL! when they get thrown in jail for selling drugs. But yeah, sorry to argue with you so much, you do have some very good points. Nice arguement:)

Take care:)

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
Uhhh.. yeah! When you are a 16 year old who yourself is under the influence of drugs -and at that age your more proned to be influenced by your surroundings. Im not talking about minors or anyone incapable of making rash decisions. Im talking about adults who sell drugs and cry that they its not fair that they are in jail and noone else is. Get it?

Yeah, pretty true. 16 was the age where I smoked weed the most, because I didn't have anything to do and wanted to do something. But now I have matured and find no more use of it, I just wasn't thinking right. Kids usually get in trouble for doing things just because it's boring, they cause trouble. If people had things to do there wouldn't be trouble.

Originally posted by Joeman
What I was getting at is going overboard on crusade against racism and political correctness will harm more than hurt. The reason is the same as raising an infant industry in a country. You protect them in the beginning but you have to slowly remove the protection or they never grow. They have to get used to and make progress in the environment of racism instead of saying they will never make any progress until racism is removed altogether. The biggest reason I support reparation of slavery is that after you pay them off, you can call it "even". There will one less excuse.

Yes, absolutely true Joeman. As in high school, I hate it how some blacks, on every little thing a white person does, they call it racist and use it to their advantage. Simply put, I do not like people that feed on sympathy too much. Yes there are educated blacks out there that know better, but it is the weak-minded and the uneducated are the ones that get in trouble and cause the trouble. They simply do not know better.



Well, the interesting thing is people are waiting for 2nd generation Asian immigrants to fall the same level as Whites, but that is not happening. According the latest SAT statistics I saw, Asians not only maintain their lead in math, they are closing the gap in English.

Yes, this shows proof on how a culture's value is put and how one is raised. And that hardwork does pay off. That is why I do not like excuses, especially from blacks, that they have nothing better to do, so that's the way my life is. Well you can fix it if you try. Go pursue an education damnit, then you won't get into so much trouble, but there are some exceptions. But there are cases were people do get influence into doing bad things, and those people are weak-minded, and we can only show them the way to help them. Those are exceptions to people who get in trouble and deal drugs and all that, but other strong-minded individuals do grow up in the same neighborhood and do not do any of the bad things, they have sight of their goals while the others do not.



That is because the mentality in US is "No kids will fall behind". Therefore all kids fall behind. The classes are taught at a speed that even the dumbest kids can catch up. In Asia, kids are seperated into different classes according to their test scores. Classes with smarter kids go at a faster speed. It doesn't happen until junior high though. In US that will never happen, because what you will see is mostly Asians and Jews in highest level, Whites next and then blacks and hispanics on the bottom. Schools will appear to be segregated by race. Asian education is better simply because the classes go at a faster pace basically. One lesson we learn from them is that the system is far more important than the funding. In US we put more money per student than any country in the world, but test scores are mediocre.

In the US, most students go at the set pace because it is easy and then many complain school is too hard, just pathetic and people get more and more lazy each time. People with more potential should be accelerated and also people who desire to learn. It is those who want to challenge themselves that go farther. But to take these advantages, it can't just be given to you, or else you will go the same pace as everyone else. I, for one, have personally ask my teachers at my school to place me for higher education, because I desired to challenge myself and to get the best of it, to get into a good college. They then placed me into advanced classes because I asked to be challenge. I took AP Calc and AP Physics my junior year and took all of the advantages my school could offer me. Unfortunately my school was rather small, so I began my junior year. In the US you can do the same, although the idea of faster pacing classes and all that is good.


Well, I am not sure If I agree with your theory on the sex part. China is poor, but the Chinese are one of the most sexually deprived country in the world :D A married couple in US have sex over 100 times per year, France is about 120+, China is about 60+ and Japan is 40+. Japan is the most sexually deprived country in the world :D

Japan is sexually deprived??? They have porno's everywhere distributed, in anime, and all that!

Yes, absolutely true Joeman. As in high school, I hate it how some blacks, on every little thing a white person does, they call it racist and use it to their advantage. Simply put, I do not like people that feed on sympathy too much. Yes there are educated blacks out there that know better, but it is the weak-minded and the uneducated are the ones that get in trouble and cause the trouble. They simply do not know better.
well geeze, look how you phrased that. As if 'blacks' aren't even people to be given respect to, but rather something that can only be distinguised by color. The LEAST you could have done is say black PEOPLE (which you'll notice is what you did for 'whites').

Words mean everything, and they tell me you're a bigot. Maybe pay more attention to how you say things from now on.

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers

well geeze, look how you phrased that. As if 'blacks' aren't even people to be given respect to, but rather something that can only be distinguised by color. The LEAST you could have done is say black PEOPLE (which you'll notice is what you did for 'whites').

Words mean everything, and they tell me you're a bigot. Maybe pay more attention to how you say things from now on.

As if blacks aren't even people to be given respect to? I respect the black people that deserve it, in fact any race that deems worthy in my eyes. In fact, one of the people I respect most is a black person. Major V, very intelligent because she took Calculus in 7th grade and scored a 1580 on her SAT, and i admire that, she is very honest and possessed many good traits. I used to work under her and she amazes me, so don't give me any of this crap because I'm not racist. I have many black friends also. It is just natural I refer to them by their color, the way I grew up in my environment, and I see it perfectly fine, and also my black, or African American backgrounds, friends see it fine also. So I see it fine, but you don't? = PROBLEM But hey, if you're black and it bothers you, I'll change what I say to only you. Because I have respect for people who feel hurt by the things I say, I will change.

And bigot my ass, I'm full ASIAN. So don't try to be all smart and use that crap on me.

Some whites don't even bother if they are called white, but when everytime something happens to a black, or black related, hmmm they ALWAYS get on your case. And I hate that shit, yes the blacks, or African Americans do deserve some sort of sympathy for the crimes done to them in the past, it is when they take advantage of it I do not like (oh and btw, some black people don't even like to be refered to as African American, but rather only American or Black-American.) So I don't need you to tell me what I pay attention to because that's the way it is around me.

You can talk all the trash you want about how in 'real' life your some sort of non racist saint, but your words speak volumes.

I don't care if your a fkn blue ghandi, you refered to millions of people with the word 'blacks'. Thats stupid shit, and I'm not gonna watch you do it without raising my hand and calling you out.

"Those yellows always act so fkn tough, they are short p*ssy pieces of sh*t"
You like that? And you can say you don't care cause its the internet and im some as5hole, but if I said that to your face youd probably want to kick my ass.

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
You can talk all the trash you want about how in 'real' life your some sort of non racist saint, but your words speak volumes.

I don't care if your a fkn blue ghandi, you refered to millions of people with the word 'blacks'. Thats stupid shit, and I'm not gonna watch you do it without raising my hand and calling you out.

My words voice how it is natural for me to do so.

Hey, all I said was if you have a problem with it, I'll alter the way I address that certain race as. So it seems you do.

That is virtuous of you to have that standard for Black-Americans, maybe you see they have been wronged? But you see, in the area I live, it is very diverse. Asian-Americans, Black-Americans, European-Americans, mixes between all sorts of races, so there is not much prejudice. Maybe in the states there is much more prejudice, and maybe that is the way you see it. Fine, that is your conviction, maybe stupid shit to you but not to me.

Usually with most of my black friends (that is the way I call them, it goes as this; blacks, asians, whites, and amerasian (half-asian, half-white) That is how you classfiy them from where I am from. And they have pride in that. But you seem sooo pissed about it, you simply do not understand.

Here is an example: Let's say usually with my friends; blacks, asians, amerasians, and whites. They swear a lot around each other, because it is 'natural' and 'cool' to do so. Usually I try not to swear, but it just happens. But when I am around more educated, intelligent adults, with a higher standard; I will simply refrain from swearing. It's as simple as that and I am a very flexible person. Comprehend?


"Those yellows always act so fkn tough, they are short p*ssy pieces of sh*t"
You like that? And you can say you don't care cause its the internet and im some as5hole, but if I said that to your face youd probably want to kick my ass.

Hahaha, you are quite amusing. Do you know how to tell a racist from a non-racist? Well here is my way.

"Excuse me sir, but I do not like it that you call me yellow, but rather Asian." or I can add in this sentence. "oh and btw, if something is wrong with your eyes, you can see that my skin color is golden-brown."

Hmm...situation...he says, "Oh sorry if I offended you in anyway." In which in my case, I would have stated that, as I told you I do not like to offend people.

If he says, "Fuck you yellow bitches, none of ya'll deserve my respect hahahaha." I would simply refrain from kicking the shit out of him. I wouldn't give him any respect ever again and simply walk away and ignore him, maybe saying. "Sir, you got some serious issues." And then a third time, ohhh if he says it a third time... Well, you can say his ass is grass, I'll simply beat the shit out of him. :D

Usually with most of my black friends (that is the way I call them, it goes as this; blacks, asians, whites, and amerasian (half-asian, half-white) That is how you classfiy them from where I am from. And they have pride in that. But you seem sooo pissed about it, you simply do not understand.
Let me just demonstrate to you why I feel you are talking shit and nothing else.


...how some blacks, on every little thing a white person does...

You referred to black PEOPLE as 'blacks', but white PEOPLE as 'white people'. (small but very important difference)

That language is terribly destructive IMO, and I feel its my moral obligation to call you out.

I don't want to be on a high horse or anything, I'm guilty of the occasional prejudice just like everyone else. But in something like a message board where you think before you speak I feel you should utilize that oportunity...and THINK.

lotus, you need to calm down.

Dark Master hasn't done anything racist, so stop calling him a bigot. So what if he say Blacks instead of Black people, your making something out of nothing.

You've made some very good points earlier in this thread, don't ruin it by overreacting now...

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
Let me just demonstrate to you why I feel you are talking shit and nothing else.

Shit talking as a racist...no. Shit talking as to people who use sympathy to gain a leverage for themselves...yes. And yes, I am shit talking about THOSE, not all, blacks that do that. But only in that line. Of course there it may involve some prejudice, prejudice against the people as I described use sympathy because they are lazy. They are weak.

Besides, it's probably people like you that make this such a big issue. It's often normal now on how they speak. As I read through my history book, they refer to Africans as blacks in the book. So I see no problem with it. Even here.

Blacks in the Americas. African immigration to the Americas may have begun before European exploration of the region. Blacks sailed with Christopher Columbus even on his first voyage in 1492, and blacks accompanied the earliest Spanish and Portuguese explorers.

Encarta® 98 Desk Encyclopedia © & 1996-97 Microsoft Corporation.
All rights reserved.

OH YEAH, so they SAID blacks, OOoOoo, so I think we should censor history books and encyclopedia's from school and change it to black people. :rolleyes:

You feel I'm talking shit, but I don't see it as that. As long as I don't disrespect the black people, you SHOULDN'T even be on my case That is the way I refer to my black friends as, or how we have a conversation. When I new guy comes,"What is he?" "Yeah, he's black." I see no PROBLEM with that, it's the way they themselves here call themselves. The blacks I know, have pride in being black.


You referred to black PEOPLE as 'blacks', but white PEOPLE as 'white people'. (small but very important difference)

Yes, because blacks is plural in that sentence and white, is just a white person. I can't just say, "Yeah because the white did this to the black." IT DOESN'T sound right.

And I didn't say white PEOPLE. White PERSON is what I stated.

If I refered to more then one white person, I would have said whites. No difference. Some blacks even got on my case for saying African-American, they simply do not prefer that.

And are you black?

Do you speak for all of them?

Some blacks have pride in themselves and see nothing wrong with it. Slavery is no more.

Some blacks don't mind being called that because they have the pride in it ALRIGHT. But if I offend some blacks, I simply won't say it in front of them. GET IT. It's a matter of respect.


That language is terribly destructive IMO, and I feel its my moral obligation to call you out.

Yes, IN YOUR OPINION. :D


I don't want to be on a high horse or anything, I'm guilty of the occasional prejudice just like everyone else. But in something like a message board where you think before you speak I feel you should utilize that oportunity...and THINK.

It's NATURAL. And why should I care what you think, as long as what I think is appropiate enough. But you don't think it's appropiate, so who is to say who is right? And who is to say who SHOULD think, you need to think that over BECAUSE you are not right buddy, and so am I. As long as I respect the black people and not call them any name not suitable, I believe it's fine.

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
"Those yellows always act so fkn tough, they are short p*ssy pieces of sh*t"

See, over here you are simply overreacting. If you SAY it in THAT tone of voice, YES, that's disrespectful. Did you notice me saying anything about blacks in that sort of way? No, I don't think so. You simply don't understand. All I did was refer to them, on how some use that racist crap and sympathy to simply get their way in life. And I don't like it if they use it too much.

As Joeman said, "The reason is the same as raising an infant industry in a country. You protect them in the beginning but you have to slowly remove the protection or they never grow. "

You seem to be the people shielding them still. Blacks can care for themselves, and as long as I don't hate them, or be a racist against, you shouldn't be necessarily doing this.

I mean no disrespect to the black race or people if you look at it that way.

1. Whites are 300 times as likely to commit arson than blacks
2. Whites are 50 times as likely to commit rape than blacks.
3. Whites are 432 times as likely to commit emblezzelment than blacks
4. Whites are 24 times as likely to commit suicide than blacks
5. Whites are 1500 times more likely to be on welfare than blacks
6. Whites are 50 times as likely to kill someone because of the color of there skin or the religion they pratices than blacks
7. Whites are 747 times as likely to use bombs than blacks
8. Whites are 278 times as likely to be brug addicted than blacks
9. Whites are {get this} 843 times as likely to be gay than blacks.
10. Whites are 29 times as likely to rape and murder a black child than a white child.

Pretty startling numbers if you as me. maybe we should look in our own backyards before we start quoting from KKK web sites {or did any of you bother to look at where this idiot got his numbers from}.

1. Whites are 300 times as likely to commit arson than blacks
2. Whites are 50 times as likely to commit rape than blacks.
3. Whites are 432 times as likely to commit emblezzelment than blacks
4. Whites are 24 times as likely to commit suicide than blacks
5. Whites are 1500 times more likely to be on welfare than blacks
6. Whites are 50 times as likely to kill someone because of the color of there skin or the religion they pratices than blacks
7. Whites are 747 times as likely to use bombs than blacks
8. Whites are 278 times as likely to be brug addicted than blacks
9. Whites are {get this} 843 times as likely to be gay than blacks.
10. Whites are 29 times as likely to rape and murder a black child than a white child.

I'm offended! White people.:D

In any case, your numbers are just as meaningless as the others. And since when was being gay comparable to being a murderer?

Twit.

Originally posted by dkb218
1. Whites are 300 times as likely to commit arson than blacks
2. Whites are 50 times as likely to commit rape than blacks.
3. Whites are 432 times as likely to commit emblezzelment than blacks
4. Whites are 24 times as likely to commit suicide than blacks
5. Whites are 1500 times more likely to be on welfare than blacks
6. Whites are 50 times as likely to kill someone because of the color of there skin or the religion they pratices than blacks
7. Whites are 747 times as likely to use bombs than blacks
8. Whites are 278 times as likely to be brug addicted than blacks
9. Whites are {get this} 843 times as likely to be gay than blacks.
10. Whites are 29 times as likely to rape and murder a black child than a white child.

Pretty startling numbers if you as me. maybe we should look in our own backyards before we start quoting from KKK web sites {or did any of you bother to look at where this idiot got his numbers from}.
Note that those are USA figures, a country where most people are white. The figures are probably the opposite in South Africa, or any other country where whites are the minority.

what happened to personal and even social responsibility?

We all know right from wrong.. anything less is an excuse.
.......For every action is a reaction........

Many times i could have taken an immoral stance and made my life easier by doing something i knew was wrong because it gave me an easy out... Im not perfect ive made mistakes.. but i can hold my head high and know whatever the experience or loss ive suffered, i value most...the times in my life when i did the right thing anyway.

I have genuine sympathy for those in unfortunate circumstances, but life is about 90% of choices we make and 10% life circumstance .. not the other way around.
victim based thinking does not serve any purpose in society regardless of color.

We control our own destiny.. tho some would prefer you believed they have no freewill... its much easier.

Maybe we should ask.... What did you as an individual, do today to take responsibilty for the state of your life, your country?

Or were you too busy blaming a color? a political candidate? a parent? or maybe the media? etc


cheers
RazZ:cool:

Originally posted by overdoze
Might this have possibly something to do with the fact that a disproportionate number of blacks still live in slum conditions amid inescapable poverty and rampant organized crime?

It's quite different when you compare institutionalized discrimination against a random white tourist being gunned down in some ghetto.

This is not to say that the situation vis a vis discrimination has not vastly improved to date. It's certainly better than it ever was.

But social justice will never truly be served until blacks are afforded the same standard of living, education and opportunity as any other racial/ethnic group in US (including whites.)

Until that glorious time when we finally recognize that poverty, not race is the decisive factor in behavioral trends, we'll just have to put up with the typical racist crap as exemplified by your post. :rolleyes:

Can we avoid the typical apologist crap in your post?

There are more impoverished white people in America and in American cities than there are black; yet blacks still dwarf whites in terms of crime.

I am not interpreting this, but I think the data's valid. What next?

Why is any racial division such a taboo?


:D

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
I don't see the point of actually constructing an argument to this horseshit, but what the heck, I'm bored.

Check out the statistics on discrimination in the justice system. As I have said before, white people are twice as likely to use cocaine, but there are twice as many black people in jail for it, interesting to say the least.

There is a step system of 'de facto' descrimination built into our justice system. From profiling, to the court room. Cops don't take rich white kids to jail because they believe their parents will deal with them. Fights in white high schools don't get reported to the cops, whereas a fight in a 'black' school can get you jail time. It goes on and on and on, but certainly you have noticed the news items of cops beating the crap out of a black person for apparently no reason, or how about a whole country pissed of because their cops act so prejudiced on the job(the are only human, god save the cops! I can only hope with time this gets better).

Let your imagitation run wild with this if you would. Blacks have an average earning way lower than white people (I think it was something like 32k/year vs 28k, dont quote me, if anyone has it in front of them please share). And we all know rich people get off easier justice wise right?


I'd like to see Azrael grow up under the poverty line and then see whether or not he steals in order to eat.

I'm rather suprised at my ability to stay somewhat calm in the face of such racist stupidity, I must be 'growing up' or something, WOO.

There are more impoverished whites than impoverished blacks in America. Yet the crimes committed by those whites, and the nature of those crimes, is fundamentally different.

Of all races in America, blacks lead in terms of violent crime, disproportionate to their numbers in comparison to whites, asians, to some degree Hispanics, and native americans.

It's interesting I haven't seen anyone here debate the statistics themselves -or- offer a plausible explanation otherwise.

Does your STATS include the COPS that have beaten Blacks sice our being freed from slavery? Does it include the fear set up by the KKK (and the KKK spell america with a K). Doe your stats include the ghettos made by the white men when Blacks moved from the segregated south, because the poor whites didnt want to live with the poor blacks? Does your stats include the Jobs blacks did not get while your white poor brothers found jobs to get off their feet? Does your stats include the many court cases where evedence CLEARLY pointed to the lynch mobs, and BLACk Eye witnesses were dismissed from court or ignored? Does your stats include the government itself actually passing LAWS AGAINST blacks as being equal? YOUR people NEVER HAD to Fight against ANYONE in order to live a general life, day to day, 9-5. BLACKS did and still do have to be Martin Luther King in order to just have a common life. If WE commit crimb the punnishment is WORSE than when YOU do regardless of past history. If We buy a car the credit rating is higher than you regardless of rating. Whites control the media and the so called "black" media as well BET and EBONY JET are WHITE owned. They are only going to say what is Politically acceptable about black issues. They always will. Whites can paint a picture of a race being evil if they choose and rarely cover thier own issues. If not for the gays rising up, the priest would be mollesting without coverage. (usually white men are mollesters and serial killers... MALVO was an unusual event and the media makes a point to bring up his color often)

Right on Bro. Fight the power! Down with Whitey!

Apparently, proper punctuation is a racist lie.

Does your STATS include the COPS that have beaten Blacks sice our being freed from slavery?

Please read this:


NOTES ON THE AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE

According to the Goray (I think they said Goray) Island (one of the major slaving centres in Africa) Bureau of Tourism, it was African tribes warring on each other, selling each other to the African slave traders on the coast, who sold them to European ships. The island slave trade was run mostly by black women in the eighteenth century.

All along the Slave Coast, as it was called back then, you can see the European coastal settlements. These towns are fortified. And you may notice that thier gun emplacements are ALL pointed out to sea. All the forts were designed to protect against the sea. They were not fighting any locals for slaves. They needed arms only to fight rival European factions. Almost without exception, these fortified towns were set up with the permission of the local African rulers. The Europeans were there on the sufference of the local African rulers. Documents granting trading rights to specific European nations were signed by the local African rulers; and no, they weren't forced into it; the locals had entire nations, while the Europeans had only a few people, and the local rulers were paid very well for the rights (Yes, just like everyone else, they wanted wealth, nice things, power, et cetera).

Most European traders were too damn scared to go inland. They often took enough water and food to make the whole round trip, because they were too scared to make forays into the forest to find stuff while in Africa.

From Professor Elisee Soumonni, Universite Nationale du Benin: "People often don't realise that Africans themselves took part in the trade. That's why, when looking at the question of responsibility, one must admit that there is a responsibility or a complicity within Africa. Because it would have been impossible for Europeans to ship out so many people without the benefit of some internal collaboration at one level or another. There was a deep involvement of Africans in the trade."

When Europeans were actually buying slaves, there was a network of trade trails throughout the area which carried slaves, all tied in lines in ropes, bought and sold from one African trader to the next until some eventually reached the coast. Such convoys could take as long as a year to reach the coast.

From Professor John Fynn, University of Ghana: "People were coming down, as it were, in relays. It was simply trade. Trading with people who wanted our gold, or our slaves. And we want their guns, their gin, their rum, their crops, and so on. So Africans were bringing down the trade, and the Europeans were recieving them. And this was what they called the Castle Trade. Castle Trade - Europeans don't have to venture inland. Trade was brought to them, by the Africans themselves. Whether it is gold, or slaves, it was an African affair."

Slaves had been part of many African cultures long before Europeans arrived. They fought in armies, served in homes, worked as farmers and labourers and such.

One African king executed two of his slaves every single morning in gratitude for a good night's sleep. Another king decorated his palace walls with the heads of his slaves; at one time he had 127 of them executed to complete the line, fill a gap. Some slaves were executed to stop or start rain, bring better crops, et cetera.

Slaves have been exported from Africa, by Africans, for thousands of years, to Cairo, Constantinople, Baghdad, and so on. The trans-Saharan slave trade alone over the few centuries prior to Europeans joining in swallowed over three million slaves, according to estimates based on surving contracts and skeletal remains.

From Akosua Perbi, University of Ghana: "There were other slave markets in Ghana. In the northern part of Ghana where we are right now, there were about four markets, including Salaka. And yet Salaka became the most famous, because of its position. So Salaka was blessed, if you like, geographically, strategically. There were professional merchants who traded all over West Africa, across the trans-Saharan trade. And we find them in Salaka market. Then there were the individual merchants, somebody wanting a wife, or perhaps the wife is barren. The person would come as an individual, and come and purchase one female slave to marry, to bear him children. So it was predominantly an African market, predominantly an African enterprise, predominantly an African setting... So far as they were concerned, it was profitable business, and that was all that mattered, at that time of the trade."

The trans-Atlantic trade was only possible at all because the slave trade was already an ingrained part of Africa. Making war, and selling the losers into slavery was a very common part of life in Africa.

From Venture Smith (the name was obviously given by his eventual owners, his adventures written down by them too), an African slave, who was forced to march four hundred miles to the coast by African slavers after they tortured his father to death in front of him: "I was obliged to carry on my head a large flat stone, weighing twenty-five pounds. These burdens were very grievous to me, being only about six and a half years old."

From another slave taken as a child: "There came a merchant who told me that if I would go with him I should see houses with wings walk upon the water, and should also see the white folks. And should bring me back again soon."

Kwane Nyki the 12th, Paramount Chief of the Assins. His ancestors wiped out heaps of other tribes in their area, selling many into slavery. He said: "What I learnt from my ancestors, or my predecessors, was that this place was that this place was a slave market. Here became the centre, or the last stop, where they had plenty of water, plenty of land to bury their dead. And they fattened them here, and sell them. For us, a day's walk to Cape (couldn't understand his next word, the name of the place)."

Once a year the Assins have a ceremony to remember the slaves they caught themselves or passed on through their lands. They pray for the slaves' souls to be at rest and such. The Assin traded slaves for guns, gunpowder, Jamaican rum, sugar, bananas, et cetera.

Europeans shipped twenty million guns into Africa as payment for slaves. These guns went to the African nations who supplied the slaves.

In the Homi nation, the King saw the European merchants as subordinates under his own rule, a part of his own slave exporting business. You could not trade in these places without the permission of the local African authorities. The African who acted as the go-between in the Homi land would not allow a European to trade until every person even slightly related to the business to come had been thoroughly bribed.

From Martine De Souza (she works now as a tour guide), a black woman who is a descendent of Fransisco De Souza, a rather bad European man who had more than 40 black wives and fathered more than ninety sons there: "With the African-Americans whose ancestors suffered and who still live with discrimination today, the reaction is completely different. They become furious. They weep and wail. They even thump the walls. And they say 'I didn't know Blacks contributed so much to the slave trade.' And I tell them 'You shouldn't always blame the Whites, because Blacks also took part in it. Without them, the trade wouldn't have been so easy.'"

Many of the African suppliers of slaves went to North America to live for short periods with their European business-associates. They went to school there, lived the good life, then went home and improved their own slave business.

Letter from a Nigerian (in Calabar) slave-trader to his associates in England: "Dear Gentlemen. Captain John Burrow arrived at this river on the fourth day of May with a very fine cargo. I hope his ships carry four hundred and sixty slaves. I don't keep him long, and I think he'll get to Liverpool fifteen or twenty day March. I am your dear Eyboyoung Effyoung."

Another letter from an African slave trader in Calabar: "I want two gun for every slave I send. Send me some writing paper, and two sheep. PS: remember me to your wife."

Another letter from an African slave trader in Calabar: "Send plenty of ship's guns. Send me one looking glass six feet long and six feet wide. And send two pewter pistols."

In 1807, Britain abolished the trans-Atlantic slave trade; several other European nations followed suit. Many African rulers lodged official protests. In 1820, a white delegation reached the Ashanti king, who told them: "The white men do not understand my country, or they would not say the slave trade was bad. But if they think it bad now, why did they think it good before?"

After that decision by Britain and others, the internal and trans-Saharan African slave markets continued. They died out only at the start of the twentieth century.

Well, there's some notes on slavery in and from Africa. To blame it solely on Europeans is plain old racism. The Europeans buyers were slaving scum, true, but so were the African suppliers of slaves. These are some of the facts of the issue.




Does your stats include the government itself actually passing LAWS AGAINST blacks as being equal?

Are you referring to Affirmative Action?



YOUR people NEVER HAD to Fight against ANYONE in order to live a general life, day to day, 9-5.

This shows you to be a complete fuggin idiot, entirely ignorant of history. Whites endured thousands of years of slavery in Europe. That continent had its own internal slave trade for millennia, as did Africa, as did Asia. Then what happened? The lands of my own ancestors were invaded and conquered by Rome and Christianity, new ways forced on them.



BLACKS did and still do have to be Martin Luther King in order to just have a common life.

You mean like Samuel Jackson, Colin Powell, or these? http://www.pilotonline.com/news/nw0928black.html



If We buy a car the credit rating is higher than you regardless of rating.

Really?



Whites control the media and the so called "black" media as well BET and EBONY JET are WHITE owned.

That sounds remarkably like what those neo-NAZI wankers say about Jews. Do you by any chance have a swastika tattoo?



Whites can paint a picture of a race being evil if they choose and rarely cover thier own issues.

You're seeming incredibly racist, you know.

"YOUR people NEVER HAD to Fight against ANYONE in order to live a general life, day to day, 9-5."

Tell that to the Mongols, untermensch.

You people are talkin about people in other countries. Whites in other lands in order to show that whites have suffered? I thought the post I replied to was talking about AMERICA! Im sorry, if you people wish to try to show how YOUR people were in slavery in some other friggin country, so as to justify YOUR SLAVING OUR PEOPLE, then I am mistaken in thinking this was about AMERICA. And the white poeple love to say that blacks were involved in slavery. THEY were involved in SLAVERY as much as the INDIANS were involved in Land trading with whites. YEAH the white man didnt STEAL the land from the indians, they TRADED had it sold to them fair and square right? THOSE INDIANS are just complaining, and the whites did NO wrong in their dealings. The Whites did NO wrong in their having slaves, and the slavery of blacks UP UNTIL THE LAST SLAVE WAS FREED BY THE POLICE just before 1901 has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the social status or financial placement of blacks today. After all, that was 100 years ago. And the jim crow laws had NO effect on the economic situation. And ALL those peole in news clips HOLLERING and protesting AGAINST blacks voting and attending school with them in City after city, ALL of them INSTANTLY LOVE blacks now and they now treat the blacks they meet EQUALLY, and they raised their KIDS fair and EQUALLY, instantly after Jim Crow was removed. I am sorry for troubling you guys. Perhaps I am out of date. WHEN did the White man start treating us EQUALLY? I must have missed it. I always thought the white people ware made to treat others fairly by force, and never once in AMERICAN history did the whites ever Change policy without protest by whoever they were kicking. I guess I was wrong about your people. Thanks for everything. Like that gubment handout. You KNOWS how weez LUV dat WELFARE. And when the white, Ah meens MULTICULTUAL media, put on TV how weez sit on the gubment and Buy big new cadlac cahs and pimp cloths on welfare checks (you know deh give THOUSAND AND THOUSANDS a month, and car dealers give credit to Welfare peeps all the time), I can see how MAD dat make yall. Aftu all, YALL doin ALl du Workin, And I just sit on dis here computa and COMPLAIN bout slavery and all. Aftu all that was 400 YEARS ago. I thinks Ima just Git over it, Get off Crack, Sell my benzo get off welfare, sell all my jewlry from the Drugs I beez sellin, Move out da ghetto, and do what Colin Powel did and Oprah, and Michael (both of them). By the way, Ima goto College and gets ma degree. When I gits it, (it'll be because of affirmative ackshun dat I gits in)Ima go to da bosses in the BLACK neighborhood(who will be a white man in all likelihood) and begs foe a job. And then Im gonna go to the bank in ma BLACk hood and begs foe a loan (the loan officer is no doubt a white man as well). Oh well, I guess I will go to the Mexican hood to THAT bank, Woops THEY WHITE TOO! OH WELL. Can I gits a job here wit Yall folks?

1) Learn punctuation and grammar, please, so it may be easier to read your posts.

2) Separate your points in paragraphs.

3) You seem very racist to me, with your hatred of whites.

as far as the "stats" goes, the stats say just what the stats would read when the WHITES were broke in NEY YORK. "gangs of new york". Take a look. UH OH the whites in GANGS? THAT is not shoking. Give me the stats of the violence of White on blacks by COPS without the same provications that white criminals provide. Lets look up the stats of the Blacks selling DRUGS ! YEAH LOOK AT ALL THOSE BLACKS SELLIN AND TAKIN CRACK!!! WOOPS WHO IS THAT DRIVING UP TO THAT DEALER? A WHITE MAN BUYING CRACK!!!!!!!!WEED!!!White people GROW their drug of choice in the everglades here in florida. The Police only destroy the plot and take very little effort in arresting and giving HARD TIME to the crop growers. They are COMMON people like MY FORMAN! They drink Beers and get pulled over. SOME get arrested, SOME dont. Depends on if you are drivin a Pickup and you are a Good ole boy, being Pulled over by a good ole boy. But Lets be real. I KNOW there are MANY MANY instances where 5 BLACK cops beat the SNOTS out a WHITE FEMALE that was pulled over on a simple traffic stop. I am SURE that there are MANY stats of the BLACK MUSLIMS killing and threatening Whites and Walking out of court as there are vice versa. WHAT am I thinkin?

Ever heard of the Zebra Killings?

Why is it that when people talk about what WHITE PEOPLE have done to other people in America, they are called "hatin whitey?" Hello? do the white people actually Deny they have kicked everyone next to them? Does the white people in the Usa think they have been fair to others? Equal? Or were they MADE to be fair after protest?
Why is it that if a person says, "perhaps the American Government has policy that is making other counties pissed at us" he is called ANTI AMERICAN?
BLIND is to not look at what is ACTUALLING HAPPENING! LOOK at what is happening and stop thinking that a group of people is mearly complaining. Could it ACTUALLY BE that white poeple HAVE done things against others?
The Muslims are now being bashed. Abd the republicans like to use this as a tool to get away with saying little nasty comments about THEM now. now THEY are being attacked. NOT by Blackas, or any other American people. But the WHITE people are the ones once again, doing the main kicking. Do you deny THIS as well? I am sure there is yet some other reason for why THAT is not true or justified as well, right?

1) The Africans sold into slavery in the Americas were sold into slavery by Africans.

2) The African slave trade still exists.

3) It was white people who ended the slave trade in the Americas and Europe, while the trade still goes on in Africa.

4) Black people commit crimes. White people commit crimes. All sorts of people commit crimes.

5) Nobody, not even the dreaded Whitey, is forcing black people in the USA to use or sell drugs, guns, or anything else like that. People have free will, they do it by choice.

shrrbro = dumbass