Or...

Does anyone know how to correctly interpret the following?
Musnad Ahmad - Hadith #3594

No Death Threats Please... (Pretty lame I even have to think that)

Peace, Love, and Chocolate Pudding... :)

Or...

Does anyone know how to correctly interpret the following?
Musnad Ahmad - Hadith #3594

No Death Threats Please... (Pretty lame I even have to think that)

Peace, Love, and Chocolate Pudding... :)

I don't think anyone knows if he 'ever' drank wine- alcohol was banned in steps, so it is possible that he drank in the early stages of Islam. By the way, you could have quoted the Hadith here, everyone knows what you're getting at, no reason to hide the intention. :D

Peace be unto you ;)

Or...

Does anyone know how to correctly interpret the following?
Musnad Ahmad - Hadith #3594

No Death Threats Please... (Pretty lame I even have to think that)

Peace, Love, and Chocolate Pudding... :)

You will meet an awful doom for your use of an Avatar from Lost in Space! Or My Favorite Martian. Either is haraam.

You will meet an awful doom for your use of an Avatar from Lost in Space! Or My Favorite Martian. Either is haraam.

Gee THANKS!

It was from "My Favorite Martian"!

I used to love that show when I was a kid.

But I think that the ...Chocolate Pudding... Sign Off should cover that little slip of mine.

Any chance of that?

I don't think anyone knows if he 'ever' drank wine- alcohol was banned in steps, so it is possible that he drank in the early stages of Islam. By the way, you could have quoted the Hadith here, everyone knows what you're getting at, no reason to hide the intention. :D

Peace be unto you ;)


Some people think that he sinned and others do not. I am just trying to figure out which it is.

Peace back to you as well :)

Some people think that he sinned and others do not. I am just trying to figure out which it is.

Peace back to you as well :)

It doesn't matter if he sinned or not (in my opinion)- and people always hold differing views on most things.... It is generally agreed that Muhammad did make little mistakes but never 'great sins'.

You have to realize that Muhammad is not God as many hold Jesus to be in Christianity- so for Jesus to be sinless is a requirement but for Muhammad to be sinless it certainly is not a requirement- perhaps you can read the stories of OT prophets for examples as many were not sinless :shrug:

Peace be unto you ;)

Of course he sinned, he is human, we all sin.

Hi, SetiAlpha6;


Muhammad drank wine and performed ablution with it (http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Muhammad_drank_wine_and_performed_ablution_with_it )

:bawl:

Or...

Does anyone know how to correctly interpret the following?
Musnad Ahmad - Hadith #3594

No Death Threats Please... (Pretty lame I even have to think that)

Peace, Love, and Chocolate Pudding... :)What exactly was the Hadith?

Mohammad was a literary creation. So, his committing a sin or not is purely in the minds of the authors who created him. It's like asking if Harry Potter sinned. Or Jesus for that matter.

Alcohol was distilled much after Mohammed so it is unlikely he drank wine [or even coffee]

He made mistakes like everyone else and he was a man, subject to the failings that all men are.

Alcohol was distilled much after Mohammed so it is unlikely he drank wine ? Alcohol has been part of almost every human civilization - certainly every agricultural one - since the dawn of civilization itself.

Distilled wine usually gets another name - brandy, commonly. Normal wine is not distilled.

Drinking wine would not, of course, have been a "mistake" for Muhammed. And the booze prohibition operates as an early warning system for those just meeting Islam: here there be monsters.

What exactly was the Hadith?

Mohammad was a literary creation. So, his committing a sin or not is purely in the minds of the authors who created him. It's like asking if Harry Potter sinned. Or Jesus for that matter.
*************
M*W: You explained that so well.

Wine was the drink of the day. It wasn't condemned AFAIK. Their water was probably too filthy to drink. Jesus (another literary character) drank. Hell, Jesus turned water into wine, because his mother (another famous literary figure in the same book) told him to.

Just because Mohammad's mother (did she exist in the literature?) didn't tell him to drink wine or make it, doesn't mean that he left the shit alone.

Wine in those days (during the periods of Jesus and Mo) was probably one of the few things they were able to drink.

Pass the Chardonnay, please.

? Alcohol has been part of almost every human civilization - certainly every agricultural one - since the dawn of civilization itself.

Distilled wine usually gets another name - brandy, commonly. Normal wine is not distilled.

Drinking wine would not, of course, have been a "mistake" for Muhammed. And the booze prohibition operates as an early warning system for those just meeting Islam: here there be monsters.

Was there wine in Arabia? I don't know, I do know that while taverns were the norm in Europe, it was coffee houses that became the norm in Arab lands. Was it because of Islam or inspite of it, I don't know, I haven't looked at that history very closely.

What did Mohammed say when he stumbled out of the bar?

" Oh boy...'mm Hammered!"

p.s I know you don't get it and I don't care.

Just because Mohammad's mother (did she exist in the literature?)

He was orphaned at an early age and brought up by his uncle, Abu Talib. His mother Amina was lost to illness when he was six, his father Abdullah died six months before he was born. After his mothers death he was taken in by his grandfather Abdul Muttalib, who died when he was eight, and finally t was his paternal uncle who took him in

given the contemporary written evidence i'd say this back story is good evidence for early literary creativeness. Framing the character, fleshing him out so he becomes more "real" and believable. You start to think: I know this guy, I empathize with him as a person. You can't have a good literary protagonist without an interesting back story.

It should be noted Harry Potter was also an orphan. Harry Potter also discovers (at the age of eleven) that he is special and has magical abilities. Of course a modern audience needs a bit more magic and drama to keep their attention. When Harry was a baby he witnessed his parents' murder by Lord Voldemort - a dark wizard obsessed with blood purity.

Interesting no?

What did Mohamed say when he stumbled out of the bar?


Good riddle. Bad answer.
You can do better.
I know what he said next day:

"I got crucified last night"

Alternative riddle.
What did Spud say when he stumbled out of the Tantawangalo Red Lion?


When Harry was a baby he witnessed his parents' murder by Lord Voldemort - a dark wizard obsessed with blood purity.



That Lord Voldemort. He's just like Hitler ain't he?

Alcohol was distilled much after Mohammed so it is unlikely he drank wine [or even coffee]



Wine is a natural product. It does not require distillation.
Leave a few grapes on a windowsill for a week, and you will start smelling wine.
Wasps, on an autumn day, will get drunk from eating fermenting windfalls.

So will I, if I play my cards right.

Wine is a natural product. It does not require distillation.
Leave a few grapes on a windowsill for a week, and you will start smelling wine.
Wasps, on an autumn day, will get drunk from eating fermenting windfalls.

God I hate wasps, they are such little bastards -_-

He did try to feel up my sister.

given the contemporary written evidence i'd say this back story is good evidence for early literary creativeness. Framing the character, fleshing him out so he becomes more "real" and believable. You start to think: I know this guy, I empathize with him as a person. You can't have a good literary protagonist without an interesting back story.

It should be noted Harry Potter was also an orphan. Harry Potter also discovers (at the age of eleven) that he is special and has magical abilities. Of course a modern audience needs a bit more magic and drama to keep their attention. When Harry was a baby he witnessed his parents' murder by Lord Voldemort - a dark wizard obsessed with blood purity.

Interesting no?

Well Mohammed was just a lowly merchant for much of his life. It was only after he was 40 that he became involved with religion. People tend to forget the first 40 years of his life because all he is known for is the next 23 years.

Was there wine in Arabia?

At the time of the Prophet? I'd find it difficult to believe there wasn't, offhand. All of the nearby regions (Egypt, Babylonia, Greece, Africa, Persia, India, etc.) had been producing booze for thousands of years before that, and there was plenty of trade going through Arabia no? And the Caliphates were at the forefront of distillation technology within 100 years of Mohammed's death.

And isn't Mohammed supposed to have spoken specifically about wine and alcohol?

Well Mohammed was just a lowly merchant for much of his life. It was only after he was 40 that he became involved with religion. People tend to forget the first 40 years of his life because all he is known for is the next 23 years.Of course Mohammad was 40 years old. A nice round number with a lot hellava of lot of Biblical significance.

Forty Years of Probation by Trial
- Israel in the wilderness, Deuteronomy 8:2-5; Psalm 95:10; Acts 13:18
- A the third of Moses' life, 120 years is 40.
- Israel from the crucifixion to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Forty Years of Probation by Prosperity in Deliverance and Rest
- under Othniel, Judges 3:11,
- under Barak, Judges 5:31,
- under Gideon, Judges 8:28.

Forty Years of Probation by Prosperity in Enlarged Dominion
- under David, 2Samuel 5:4,
- under Solomon, 1 Kings 11:42,
- under Jeroboam II. See 2 Kings 12:17,18, 13:3,5,7,22,25, 14:12-14,23,28,
- under Jehoash, 2 Kings 12:1,
- under Joash, 2Chronicles 24:1.

Forty Years of Probation by Humiliation and Servitude
- Israel under the Philistines, Judges 13:1.
- Israel in the time of Eli, 1Samuel 4:18.
- Israel under Saul, Acts 13:21.

Forty Years of Probation by Waiting
- Moses in Egypt, Acts 7:23.
- Moses in Midian, Acts 7:30

Forty Days
There are eight of such great periods on the surface of the Bible:

- Forty days Moses was in the mount, Exodus 24:18; and to receive the Law, Exodus 24:18.
- Forty days Moses was in the mount after the sin of the Golden Calf, Deuteronomy 9:18,25.
- Forty days of the spies, issuing in the penal sentence of the 40 years, Numbers 13:26, 14:34.
- Forty days of Elijah in Horeb, 1 Kings 19:8.
- Forty days of Jonah and Nineveh, Jonah 3:4.
- Forty days Ezekiel lay on his right side to symbolize the 40 years of Judah's transgression.*
- Forty days Jesus was tempted of the Devil, Matthew 4:2.
- Forty days Jesus was seen of His disciples, speaking of things pertaining to God's kingdom, Acts 1:2.



Can't really have any old number when you're making it up. It's gotta mean something. Yup, 40 years old, not all that surpizing. Ever see that movie The 40 year old virgin? Hilarius. Not all that old when you come to think about it :) I mean heck, Sarah was 91 years old when she bore her son, Isaac, - if you can believe it :p

At the time of the Prophet? I'd find it difficult to believe there wasn't, offhand. All of the nearby regions (Egypt, Babylonia, Greece, Africa, Persia, India, etc.) had been producing booze for thousands of years before that, and there was plenty of trade going through Arabia no? And the Caliphates were at the forefront of distillation technology within 100 years of Mohammed's death.

And isn't Mohammed supposed to have spoken specifically about wine and alcohol?

The word for wine in Arabic qahwa is also the word for coffee. Generally the word used in the Qur'an is intoxicant. People don't usually recall that there was no "alcohol" as such when the Qur'an was revealed it was distilled by Persian alchemists much later. Not surprisingly most Hadiths about alcohol were collected after the distillation of alcohol and the establishment of drinking places in the new empire, when poets like Omar Khayyam wrote stuff like this:

Ah, my Beloved, fill the Cup that clears
To-day of past Regrets and future Fears --
To-morrow? -- Why, To-morrow I may be
Myself with Yesterday's Sev'n Thousand Years.

Woman, desist! He was talking about wine, not distilled alcohol. And he certainly wasn't talking about coffee.

And David's lips are lockt; but in divine High - piping Pehlevi, with "Wine! Wine! Wine! Red Wine!" - the Nightingale cries to the Rose That sallow cheek of hers to incarnadine

And I bet you have a drop of that yourself from time to time;)

Waste not your Hour, nor in the vain pursuit Of This and That endeavour and dispute; Better be merry with the fruitful Grape Than sadden after none, or bitter, Fruit.

Mmmmh.......

Hi, SetiAlpha6;


Muhammad drank wine and performed ablution with it (http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Muhammad_drank_wine_and_performed_ablution_with_it )

:bawl:

Thanks!

I have a Muslim friend who thinks that all wine is evil.

I do not agree and I was just looking for correct information on the topic.

He did try to feel up my sister.

spidergoat,

Your Icon is kinda alien abduction like.

Kinda COOL!

Was there wine in Arabia? I don't know, Why in hell would you "doubt that Muhammed ever drank wine"? Where would you get the idea that there was no alcohol around in Muhammed's day?

It's quite likely that he not only drank wine, but ate pork in his travels. That he not only married several women, but that one of his later wives was a girl about 12 and he had sex with her.

You don't like eating pork - pork somehow becomes nutritionally worse than other meats. You don't like alcohol, somehow wine and beer vanish from the landscape of your admired people. C'mon.


I do know that while taverns were the norm in Europe, it was coffee houses that became the norm in Arab lands. Was it because of Islam or inspite of it, I don't know, I haven't looked at that history very closely. Coffee houses spread fast in Europe as soon as introduced, becoming so much identified with European culture (and a norm that has lasted for hundreds of years now) that Islamic Turkey banned coffee for a while.

Tobacco smoking, chocolate drinking, were first found among Mexican civilizations; opium cultivation and coffee drinking among North African/Arabian civilizations; Tea drinking in southern China; Coca chewing among Andes mountain civilizations; this is not a mystery requiring exploration of cultural depths.

Alcohol is one the universals of human civilization - all known humans who ever lived in towns drank some kind of alcohol.

Thanks!

I have a Muslim friend who thinks that all wine is evil.

I do not agree and I was just looking for correct information on the topic.
*************
M*W: I went to a party where there were a bunch of Muslim physicians. I tell you what, they all drank plenty of alcohol, and one of the wives got shit-faced drunk and came on to me!

As you need two male witnesses to a crime, and no males are allowed in a harem, lesbianism is not a big thing in Islam.
I'm sure that Shadow must be reading this thread.
Shadow, do you allow female congress in your harem, or must they wait for service by yourself?

As you need two male witnesses to a crime, and no males are allowed in a harem, lesbianism is not a big thing in Islam.

I never noticed that loophole.

Shadow, do you allow female congress in your harem, or must they wait for service by yourself?

what? what do you mean?

Do you allow the women in your harem to be lesbians?
Or do you shout at them and say "Women. No messing about. You must wait for Shadow"

What is the difference between two of Shadow's harem pleasuring each other and one of them being 'pleasured' by Shadow?

.................................. about an hour and a half.

Stop corrupting the kids, he's barely 14 years old. :bugeye:

Stop corrupting the kids, he's barely 14 years old. :bugeye:

I had no idea! Sorry can't help quoting the pope.

Bad Spud!
It's that school you went to.
Sister Monica's College for Wayward Children and Parentless Aborigines

Aborigines: But, Sister Monica, we have got Par........
Sister Monica: Shut up, you little devils!

Salam. I found a proper refutation to the Musnad Ahmad argument & others here:
islamic-replies.ucoz.com/Rebut_WikiIslam_Drank_Wine_Ablution.html