I have had a curisousity about the doomsday scenarios and especially the signs of the end time. It is illustrated quite in detail in the Islamic texts. Some signs like widespread draught and famine. People killing each other while not knowing why, a big treasure being found in the Tigris (or Eupherates I think), The big wars, the Dajjal, the black-flagged warriors, the return of the Christ, the Al-Mahdi,... I wonder what are the signs in the other religions and whether the are similar.

Some posts deleted. Please stick to mythology and leave personal beliefs and predictions behind.

Mod, I didn't quite understand your explanation as I'm talking about the predictions and not my personal ideas; but, anyway.

According to Islamic texts the end time will have some minor and some major signs. The minor ones start from the birth of the prophet Muhammed and go on..

Abu Musa Ash'ari (R.A.) narrates that the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) said, "Qiyamah (the end day) will come...

* When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.
* When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.
* When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa).
* When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours.
* When orators and lecturers lie openly.
* When people dispute over petty issues.
* When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on account of having no responsibility of offspring.
* When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.
* When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.
* When lies prevail over the truth.
* When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common.
* When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.
* When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat.
* When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

The following is part of a lengthy Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood (R.A.) when he inquired from Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about the Signs of Qiyamah.

* Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.
* People will indulge in homosexuality.
* There will be an abundance of illegitimate children.
* There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society.
* People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.
* Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments.
* The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.
* The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.
* Gangsters and evil people will prevail.
* Various wines will be consumed excessively.

Auf bin Malik (R.A.) says: I came to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) while he was in his skin tent during the Tabuk expedition. He said to me, "Count six things before the advent of Qiyamah:

1 My death
2 The conquest of Jerusalem
3 Mass deaths amongst you people, just as when sheep die in large numbers during an epidemic
4 Abundance of wealth to such an extent that if a person were to be given a hundred Dinars he will still not be satisfied
5 General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
6 Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
(Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).

IRAQ and SYRIA

Abu Nadhrah says: "We were sitting in the company of Jabir bin Abdullah (R.A.) when he said: 'Soon the people of IRAQ will neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.'" We asked, "Why would such a thing happen?" He replied, "Because of the non-Arabs." (i.e they will prevent food from going into Iraq, in the form of "sanctions" to this day.) He then said: "Soon the people of Shaam (SYRIA) will neither receive any money nor grain." We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: "Because of the Romans (christians)."

CONCEITED PEOPLE:

Hadhrat Abbas (R.A) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) has said, "Islam will spread far and wide, across the seas. Horses will cross the land and seas in the cause of Jihaad. Then a time will come wherein a group of people will emerge which recites the Quraan. They will claim,

'We have recited the Quraan and is there anyone who understands the Quraan better than us? There is NO ONE more proficient than us in the study of the Quraan.'

Then Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) asked the Sahaba, "Do you see any good in their claims?" The Sahaba replied, "No". Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, "But these conceited claimants will be from my Ummah and will be the fuel of the Fire."

My favourite mythological doomsday is Ragnarok. It's grand!


Oh, and about the portents:

Ragnarök will be preceded by the Fimbulvetr or "Monstrous Winter", a period of three years of perpetual winter with no summer between. Snow will fall from all directions with great frosts and biting wind, and the sun will lend no warmth to the earth. During this time great battles will be fought throughout the world, humanity will descend further into violence and depravity, laws of kinship will be broken, and fathers, sons and brothers will rise up against one another. According to Völuspá, it will be an "axe age, a sword age, shields are cleft asunder, a storm age, a wolf age, before the world plunges headlong."

The wolves Sköll and Hati will then finally devour Sól (the Sun) and her brother Máni (the Moon) respectively after a perpetual chase, and the stars will burn out and vanish from the sky, plunging the earth into darkness.[6]

At that point Garmr, the monstrous hound that is bound at the cave of Gnipahellir, will begin to bay loudly. In response, three cockerels will begin crowing: Fjalar in Jotunheim from the forest of Gallows-wood, Gullinkambi in Valhalla who will wake the einherjar, and a third one that is not named, crowing in Hel and waking the dead.[7] The giant Hraesvelgr will sit on the edge of the heavens in eagle form and shriek with anticipation.

The earth will begin to tremble so violently that trees will be uprooted and mountains will fall, and all bonds and fetters will snap and break. Loki, god of mischief and strife, will be freed along with his ferocious son, the wolf Fenrir whose slavering mouth will gape wide open with his upper jaw against the sky and his lower one against the earth, but it would gape even wider if there was room. Flames will burn from the wolf's eyes and leap from his nostrils. Likewise, Garmr's "rope will break and the ravener run free". Meanwhile, Eggthér, a herdsman among the giants, will sit on a mound and joyfully play his harp in grim celebration of the coming holocaust.

At the same time, the oceans will surge up, drowning the land in a great flood as Jörmungandr, the Midgard Serpent, twisting and writhing in fury, makes his way onto the shore. He will proceed alongside his brother Fenrir, spewing venom and spattering the sky and earth with his poison.

Then it will happen that in the upsurge of waters, the great ship Naglfar, the ship of the giants (which is made from the nails of the dead), will be released from its moorings in Jotunheim. Set free by the catastrophic flooding and tsunamis caused by the Serpent, it will be carried along from the east, captained by the giant Hrym and transporting the legions of Jotnar toward the battlefield of Vigrid (Óskópnir).

From the north will sail Loki in a ship carrying a great army of evil people called "Heljar sinnar" (according to Gylfaginning which is not to be confused with people from Hel) to fight against the einherjar.[citation needed]

Amid this turmoil, the sky will open and from it will ride the fire giants of Muspelheim (the "sons of Muspell"), led by Surtr who brandishes a flaming sword ("burning with the sun of the war gods" according to Völuspá). They will advance from the south with fire before and behind them, tearing the sky apart as they too close in on Vigrid. As Surtr and the others ride over Bifröst, the rainbow bridge will break behind them and fall to the earth, while the mountains themselves crack open, releasing hordes of troll-wives upon the land.

All the forces of the Jotnar will thus arrive on three fronts to storm Asgard and will gather in battle formation upon Vigrid. They will all but fill that plain that stretches one hundred leagues in every direction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarok

My favourite mythological doomsday is Ragnarok. It's grand!


Oh, and about the portents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarok

:eek:
I believe..

Wow, I popped into this thread expecting find all sorts of mentions concerning the Christian text of Revelation and intended to mention Ragnarok (a personal favorite of mine) only to find no one has mentioned the whole Armageddon thing yet and Ragnorok is already taken. :D

I find the end times scenarios in Zoroastrianism are worth a look as well. And if you can't see the influence it's had on Abrahamic religions...look closer.

See Wiki: Saoshyant

In Hinduism, there is a big transition between the ages of Kali (Kaliyuga) and Kalki (Kalkiyuga), which shows some evidence of quite a bit of sturm und drang as well:

See Wiki: Kalki avatar

The figure of Kalki avatar (sometimes called the Tenth Avatar) is not unlike the figure in many other religious transitions, from Christianity to, yes, Norse pagan beliefs.

In Buddhism there is the figure of the Fifth Buddha or Maitreya:

See Wiki "Maitreya"

There does seem to be some commonality in these religious traditions, no matter if the figure under discussion is:

Maitreya (Buddhism)
Jesus returned (Christianity)
Baldur returned (Norse religion)
Messiah ben David (Judaism)
Kalki Avatar (Hinduism)
Mahdi (Islam)
Saoshyant (Zoroastrianism)

well, and some others, but these are the ones with info easiest to find.

The common theme is that there will be a time of falling off of religion and humanity falling into great decadence, followed by the appearance of this figure at some point, and after that, a Golden Age. Usually some sort of battle is involved somewhere, whether it is considered a spiritual one or an actual physical one (well, sometimes it's both).

Eschatology is a fascinating study.

IIRC what happens after the Nordic one is not a Golden Age - that the final battle is lost, and evil triumphs in the end ? Or did I get that wrong ?

Seems like one or two others share that as well. They haven't become world-embraced religions, for some reason.

The protagonists in Ragnarok are seen as agents of chaos not evil. It's generally order versus chaos, not good vs evil in Norse myths.

* Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.

<gasp> the horror!

IIRC what happens after the Nordic one is not a Golden Age - that the final battle is lost, and evil triumphs in the end ? Or did I get that wrong ?

Yeah, you did. After the smoke settles Lif and Liframansir survive among all the humans and repopulate humanity. Of the gods, Baldur remains to take Odin's place as the rightful leader of the gods, along with his brother Hod.

And their supposed to rule over some Golden Age of peace and tranquility.

That's the Reader's Digest version, anyway.

None of these predictions are very risky to make or specific. It's more like: the sun will come up tomorrow. Well, yeah.

None of these predictions are very risky to make or specific. It's more like: the sun will come up tomorrow. Well, yeah.

If all you look at is the general idea, that's true.

Of course, if all you look at in Physics is the way light bends to produce a blue sky, you'll probably miss a few other details about Physics as well. ;)

Name some specific prediction from religion that ever came true.

Name some specific prediction from religion that ever came true.

The topic of this thread is doomsday scenarios.

And quite frankly, if you want to bang a drum to disprove religion, go right ahead, but you'll be doing it by yourself, because I'm in this thread for a more scholarly approach to eschatology with no reference to whether any of the predictions are "true" or not.

My point is the end of the world predictions have already been made many times in history. Their believers are constantly dissapointed. How often does this have to happen before we realize there is no credibility to any religious-based prediction?

My point is the end of the world predictions have already been made many times in history. Their believers are constantly dissapointed. How often does this have to happen before we realize there is no credibility to any religious-based prediction?

Apparently, never. There's your obvious answer.

Hadhrat Abbas (R.A) narrates that the prophet of islam said, "....Then a time will come wherein a group of people will emerge which recites the Quraan. They will claim,

'We have recited the Quraan and is there anyone who understands the Quraan better than us? There is NO ONE more proficient than us in the study of the Quraan.'

Then Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) asked the Sahaba, "Do you see any good in their claims?" The Sahaba replied, "No". Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, "But these conceited claimants will be from my Ummah and will be the fuel of the Fire."

This part of the islamic revelations on the signs of the end times bears close reference to Taliban and Al-Qaeda I believe.

Another sign of the end times according to islam is a great treasure being found in Tigris.

My point is the end of the world predictions have already been made many times in history. Their believers are constantly dissapointed.

I take your point, Spidergoat.

I don't look at eschatology in the sense of the end of the world anyway. And if you examine some of the versions, it's more like turning over into a new era anyway.

Hinduism is probably the clearest in their presentation, where their eschatology moves from Kaliyuga (Age of Kali) to Kalkiyuga (Age of Kalki). There's no sturm und drang Earth blasting destruction going on in their version, though it does look at the transition as being quite turbulent.

To find the root of the Armageddon story (that is, the version where there's a big battle and everything is destroyed), look to Zoroastrianism. Even the whole view of Creation as a big battle between the forces of God and the forces of Satan grows out of Zoroastrian dualism. Zoroastrianism is one of those religions less known for it's prominence today than for its influence on religions to both the east and west.


How often does this have to happen before we realize there is no credibility to any religious-based prediction?

You do realize this is a fallacy of presumption, yes?

Another sign of the end times according to islam is a great treasure being found in Tigris.

Interesting, chuuush. I had not run across this before. Is this from a hadith or some other tradition? And is it more prevalent among Sunni or Shi'a?

(I'm much more acquainted with Shi'a tradition, fwiw, not that I would say I'm all that knowledgeable about prophecies in Islam overall.)

Is there any description of the nature of the treasure, and do you believe the understanding to be literal or metaphorical?

Thanks!

Interesting, chuuush. I had not run across this before. Is this from a hadith or some other tradition? And is it more prevalent among Sunni or Shi'a?

(I'm much more acquainted with Shi'a tradition, fwiw, not that I would say I'm all that knowledgeable about prophecies in Islam overall.)

Is there any description of the nature of the treasure, and do you believe the understanding to be literal or metaphorical?

Thanks!

I'm sorry the river is Euphrates not the Tigris. I had a wrong memory. I have heard it from Sunniy sources. It is a hadith as I heard in the recording. Regarding the nature of treasure my personal view is that it should be kind of literal reference to a treasure rather than a metamorphical one, that is a type of treasure will be found/was found there. "The Qiyamah will not take place unless the Euphrates gives out a mount of gold."

Some other minor signs of an approaching end times according to Islamic traditions are:
- (one that already happened in 654 H. = 1256 A.C.) a big fire breaking out in Hijaz (today's Saudi Arabia) so big that even those in Basra could feel it Hadith in Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim:“There will not be Dooms day until such a fire is not seen in Hijaz that would reflect on the camels of Busra.” http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/hp.htm
- People of Iraq leaving/or being forced to leave their land and a city called Basra being hit from the air. (Basra did not exist in the time of the prophet Muhammed (PBUH)).
- A lot of tunnels in Mecca and buildings higher than Mecca mounts.
- Adultery gets legal and becomes widespread and women are unwilling to have children.
- Time gets short so people feel a month as if it is a week, and a year as if it is a month.
- Stupid people become rulers of people.
- People ride things which are not horses, donkeys, etc. but look like rooms.
- Number of men will be extremely low due to the intensive wars.
- There will be big wars and calamities and muslims will indulge themselves with property and wordly things instead of helping each other. Then after the death of a certain muslim ruler mayhem will spread among the people and in this while a noble man (whose name is like the name of the prophet and his father's name is like the name of the prophet's father) will flee from Madina to Mecca and some Meccan people knowing him as a pious man come to him to lead them in Jihad in the way of God, he is unwilling at first but eventually accepts and wins a war between Mecca and Madina. After that pious and sincere muslims from allover the world- including people of black flags from the east - will go out all saying "we heard your call o Allah and accepted it" and they will start a big movement...

and thus the major signs of the end time will start.

Before the minor signs ends and the major signs (which are final forerunners of the doomsday) began there will be some kind of agreement/pact between the muslims and christians to fight a common enemy (this common enemy is not mentioned, it can be communism or some other sort of danger), but after they beat this enemy, the christians breach the agreement and start a war with the muslims. This wars and other turmoils will continue for long times and the atrocity and injustice will be widespread all over the people, so that some sincere people they could find a way out of it. Many people will indulge themselves with wealth and wordly things and the values will be misregarded. During this mayhem a noble man (named Muhammed son of Abdellah and his title Al Mahdi: http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/imam.html) will emerge from Mecca people come to him to lead them in Jihad in the way of God. Then sincere muslims from all over the world will rush to this group to fight the injustice and tyranny and people of balck flag will be with him. The muslim army will advance into the Europe and (possibly) reconquer Constantinopole (this may be a sign that Constantinopole will be captured by the christians before that time). They then marsh further into Europe until they reach Italy and the conquer Italy, too. There will be justice and abundance wherever the Al-Mahdi goes. But then the news comes that Dajjal (the antichrist) has emerged. So everybody rushes back to their home to save himself and his family and the Biggest Evil of All (the upheaval of dajjal) begins... This is the beggining of the major signs of the doomsday. http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/masdaj.html

funny how, at least for the islamic 'oh shit we're all fucked' scenario, it seems to be mostly 'doing the opposite of what allah wants you to do'. wonder if anyone will reach the conclusion - we'd better do what the qur'an says?

Here is the Hopi native american prophecy:

"This is the First Sign: We are told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana men who took the land that was not theirs. And men who struck their enemies with thunder.

"This is the Second Sign: Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices. In his youth, my father saw this prophecy come true with his eyes -- the white men bringing their families in wagons across the prairies."

"This is the Third Sign: A strange beast like a buffalo but with great long horns, will overrun the land in large numbers. These White Feather saw with his eyes -- the coming of the white men's cattle."

"This is the Fourth Sign: The land will be crossed by snakes of iron."

"This is the Fifth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web."

"This is the Sixth sign: The land shall be criss-crossed with rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun."

"This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it."

"This is the Eight Sign: You will see many youth, who wear their hair long like my people, come and join the tribal nations, to learn their ways and wisdom.

"And this is the Ninth and Last Sign: You will hear of a dwelling-place in the heavens, above the earth, that shall fall with a great crash. It will appear as a blue star. Very soon after this, the ceremonies of my people will cease."


1. White guys with guns arrive
2. White people colonize coast to coast
3. Introduction of domesticated cattle
4. Railroads from coast to coast
5. Some have alluded this to be the internet

6-9 Have not happened yet but rivers of stone makes me think of volcanic activity(*cough* yellowstone *cough*)
And dwelling place in the heavens falling with a great crash is self-explanatory.

Since they didn't have many written documents, it's very convenient that their prophecies fit what actually happened.

Here is the Hopi native american prophecy:This is clearly not "ancient," but was put together after the European occupation began.
"This is the Second Sign: Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels. . . .The aboriginal North Americans were still living on the Mesolithic/Neolithic cusp (the dawn of agriculture). They had not invented the technology of the wheel and could not have had a word for a concept they lacked.
. . . .the white men bringing their families in wagons across the prairies."Without wheels no one could have imagined the technology of the wagon. Furthermore, Australia and North America are the only two continents where no animal large enough to use for draft was ever domesticated. (No kangaroo-carts, and nobody tried to domesticate a bison. The Eskimos did not even domesticate reindeer/caribou as their cousins in Asia did.) This also argues against the concept of a wagon existing in their culture or language. They had travoises--triangular wheel-less "trailers" that humans and dogs could drag behind them on their one point--but neither a human nor a dog could drag one large enough to inspire the image of a wagon.
"This is the Fourth Sign: The land will be crossed by snakes of iron."First you invent the technology of agriculture, which concentrates your population and allows you to invent the technology of cities, which have large enough fires to invent the technology of smelting copper and tin and alloying them into bronze, whch inspires you to create even hotter fires and invent the technology of iron metallurgy. The Indians might have discovered a few iron metorites, but they had no way to melt them and discover that iron could be shaped, so they could not have imagined "snakes of iron."

These particular components are clear evidence that this prophecy was not the pre-Columbian mythology the Indians attributed to their ancestors, but was inspired by European technology they had already observed.

i just read an amazing book, google it by Yehudah Chayoun - regarding all of the talmudic (jewish) perspectives, scary stuff, but if u are jewish all u have to do is eat three meals on shabbos and you are saved!!!!

i just read an amazing book, google it by Yehudah Chayoun - regarding all of the talmudic (jewish) perspectives, scary stuff, but if u are jewish all u have to do is eat three meals on shabbos and you are saved!!!!

Jews do pray before eating a meal, don't they? There you have it...not much different from X'tians...3 prayers are better than one!

If you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it.
So if you can find what happened in the past...
It may shed some light on what's about to happen.

Consider these verses from the ancient Mahabharata: ...

"A single projectile Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame As bright as the thousand suns Rose in all its splendour... a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds... ...the cloud of smoke rising after its first explosion formed into expanding round circles like the opening of giant parasols... ..it was an unknown weapon, An iron thunderbolt, A gigantic messenger of death, Which reduced to ashes The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
The corpses were so burned As to be unrecognisable. The hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, And the birds turned white. After a few hours All foodstuffs were infected... ...to escape from this fire The soldiers threw themselves in streams To wash themselves and their equipment.

This book is verified by accepted peers around the world to be at least 5000 years old.

Civilization and science were very advanced....
We have records Man developed nuclear weapons and used them in a terrible war that destroyed both sides.

Some have said it was the existence of this very text that gave the German's the idea such a weapon could be created in the first place.
They started their atomic bomb research with the intention of recreating this nightmare.

In the Bible when God said " I am going to destroy the world with water" in the days of Noah, did He let man do it.?
In the Genesis account, before the flood there was no record of seasons changing, rain falling, or even a cloud even in the sky.
The Bible said the face of the ground was watered each night from the dew that fell on it.
The world was balanced upright relating to it's orbit around the sun.

Now it's limping through space at a 23 degree angle to the sun causing the storms and seasons.
What knocked it off it's axis just in the last 5,000 years or so?

The "scientific community" in league with the western world in it's mad rush to acquire arms more powerful than their neighbors didn't want us to know the results of the last time this happened. You can't learn from histories mistakes when they have been forgotten, omitted or covered up.

The Bible said this time the world would be destroyed with fire.
Do we need to guess at this late hour how that's going to happen?

Robert J. Oppenheimer was the scientific director of the Manhattan Project: the World War II effort to develop the first nuclear weapons at the secret Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
At the 1945 atomic bomb test he implied his regret after the success of the test, and referred to his knowledge of these Indian texts that tell of a nuclear war destroying the world over 5000 years ago, when he recalled the Bhagavad Gita: "If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one. Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

Later when someone asked him if this had been the first atomic bomb ever exploded, he said; "well yes, in modern times".

After the war Oppenheimer was a chief advisor to the newly created United States Atomic Energy Commission and used that position to lobby for international control of atomic energy and to avert the nuclear arms race with the Soviet Union. After provoking the ire of many politicians with his outspoken political opinions during the Red Scare, he had his security clearance revoked in a much-publicized and politicized hearing in 1954.

The End Times in the Cthulhu Mythos is blatantly the most terrifying.

Cthulhu wipes out all those who do not serve him. So he's a global threat by religious standards.

Jesus saves; Cthulhu swallows.

http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/CthulhuSticker.jpg

"This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it."

Interesting wording. It doesn't say that this happens. It says that we will HEAR about it.

"This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it."

Interesting wording. It doesn't say that this happens. It says that we will HEAR about it.

The Bible has a similar verse;
REVELATION 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]: and every living soul died in the sea.

Visitor, what I mean is that this thing about the poisoning of the oceans is something that we hear about but don't see a lot of. Oil spills do qualify, though. The problem exists and animals do die of it, but we're still in pretty good shape.

Oil spills, poisonous Algae growth and not to forget Volcanic eruptions can unleash high levels of sulphur amongst other materials that would kill most life that lives within water.

However you have to take note that in all these depictions the events are "Dramatic", to some it can be seen like the tale of what happens to bad boys and why you should be good. In most religions they do apply both positive and negative taxis's which are designed just to make people in number tow the line.

an example:

If you are good you go to heaven.
If you are bad, you are sent to a place called hell where fires rage and tortures occur on the unworthy and damn for an eternity.

Obviously the Positive taxis exists but it's not as hyped as the negative one.

My personal understanding of an Armageddon or Apocalypse is the very reason why Religion for so many years shunned Science. Basically as people become more enlightened through their own studies and decision making it will eventually be found that there was never a Single true religion and that all of them were false, concocted for mass control over people that feared what they couldn't understand or be allowed to begin to think about.

When we reach that point where religion is realised to be a complete crock, people will choose to get on with their lives and ignore it, some will not accept that religion is a crock and will continue to try and push their dying beliefs on others (These might well be distorted understandings of their religion, since they are putting all that work in to try and keep it going, it becomes personal and therefore corrupted), while others still will try to make it survive by twisting it's views to attempt to consolidate other beliefs/thoughts and opinions that they didn't originally adhere to (i.e. Catholicism has endorsed a number of Scientific projects that originally it would have fought against).

So in short the only "End of the world" is to those that are too constrained in reasoning to be able to move on, everybody else will just move on or adapt.

My personal understanding of an Armageddon or Apocalypse is the very reason why Religion for so many years shunned Science.

Basically as people become more enlightened through their own studies and decision making it will eventually be found that there was never a Single true religion and that all of them were false, concocted for mass control over people that feared what they couldn't understand or be allowed to begin to think about.

So in short the only "End of the world" is to those that are too constrained in reasoning to be able to move on, everybody else will just move on or adapt.

The reason the sacred religious texts did not "embrace" science is because it is light years behind the true spiritual knowledge these texts contain.
They are the wisdom that remained after the unbelief you call science took man to the brink of destruction and over it, again and again.

Science is based on a total lack of faith in the unseen...and the powerful spiritual forces that exist there.
These are the forces that created the worlds.
Without God you couldn't hold yourself together long enough to drive down to the store.

The whole world is under an anointing that falls like rain upon the just and unjust alike.
It is restraining the destructive primitive nature in man to a certain degree.
It is the only reason man has accomplished anything.
God has reserved this age for judgement with fire....by allowing man to advance this far.
All God has to do is remove this protective veil upon humanity, and man would self destruct and eat each other alive.

These religious texts are thousands of years old and have dealt with the faults of human nature and recorded what happens when it is unchecked.

The tree of knowledge man chose over the tree of life was said to bring death.
It has over and over and over again.

Nuclear weapons have destroyed this world before.
The ancient texts tell us this.
Nuclear power is nothing new...hydrogen is the most common element in the universe.
The mechanism that powers the stars.
Pretty common stuff in some circles wouldn't you imagine?

Oppenheimer referred to these texts when the first bomb was detonated.
He said; "Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds"

You have no idea what we are dealing with...and you mock elders and wise men alike while accepting a science that creates more death with every discovery.

Gunpowder made guns, cannons, tanks and bombs...
The automobile has killed more than all the wars put together.
Now we have nuclear weapons.

What do you suppose man will do with them?
Do you really think any of this will be used for peaceful purposes?
Will Iran use nuclear power for peace...?
Or any of the others, North Korea, Russia, even the U.S....?
History is full of tyrants, henchmen, mobsters, fascists and genocidal maniacs.

Your "science" is just an excuse they used to pull the wool over your eyes and allow them to ignore the safeguards these time tested spiritual teachings had put in place for sake of our own existence.

The Nazi's got the idea for the atomic bomb from reading the Indian texts that described the last nuclear war that destroyed the entire planet.
America just finished the job.

Didn't know that either?
Well now you do....a little too late I'm afraid.

Maybe you should write this down and bury it really deep somewhere.
Someday someone might dig it up and read it, if anyone will still know how to read.....

Sound familiar?

Now think about how "ignorant" those old religious texts are.
It's not that man can't be allowed to advance further....
He would have self destructed long before now if not for God.

No, the reason the sacred religious texts did not "embrace" science is because it is light years behind the true spiritual knowledge these texts contain.
Speculation.


Without God you couldn't hold yourself together long enough to drive down to the store.
More speculation.


The whole world blah blah said to bring death.
It has over and over and over again.


Nuclear weapons have destroyed this world before.
The ancient texts tell us this.
Didn't you know that?
Destroyed! Not hardly.
And only if you "believe" that stuff...


The automobile has killed more than all the wars put together.
Really?


The Nazi's got the idea for the atomic bomb from reading the Indian texts that described the last nuclear war that destroyed the entire planet.
Umm, no they didn't.
Not even close.

Umm, no they didn't.
Not even close.


Robert J. Oppenheimer was the scientific director of the Manhattan Project: the World War II effort to develop the first nuclear weapons at the secret Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
At the 1945 atomic bomb test he implied his regret after the success of the test, and referred to his knowledge of these Indian texts that tell of a nuclear war destroying the world over 5000 years ago, when he recalled the Bhagavad Gita: "If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one. Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

Later when someone asked him if this had been the first atomic bomb ever exploded, he said; "well yes, in modern times".

India has evidence that at least two of it's ancient cities were destroyed by nuclear weapons.

(1) In 1979 a book by David W. Davenport, an Englishman born in India, was published in Italy.
Its title was 2000 AC Diztruzione Atomica, Atomic Destruction 2000. BC.
Davenport claimed to have proof that Mohenjo Daro, one of the oldest cities in the history of human civilization, had been destroyed by an atomic bomb.
Davenport shows that the ruined site known as the place of death by archaeologists was not formed by gradual decay.
Originally Mohenjo Daro, which is more than 5000 years old, lay on two islands in the Indus.
Within a radius of 1.5 km Davenport demonstrates three different degrees of devastation which spread from the center outwards. Enormous heat unleashed total destruction at the center. Thousands of lumps, christened black stones by archaeologists, turned out to be fragments of clay vessels which had melted into each other in the extreme heat.
The possibility of a volcanic eruption is excluded because there is no hardened lava or volcanic ash in or near Mohenjo Daro.
Davenport assumed that the brief intensive heat reached 2000 degree C. It made the ceramic vessels melt.
He further says that in the suburbs of Mohenjo Daro skeletons of people lying flat on the ground, often hand in hand were found, as if the living had been suddenly overcome by an unexpected catastrophe.

(2) Reported in January 1992 by the UK's World Island Review, a construction team discovered the site in Rajasthan, India while preparing to build at a housing development.
The heavy layer of radioactive ash found in a three-mile-square area concealed "an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945," said the newspaper.
After its discovery, the ancient city became suspect as the cause of a high rate of birth defects and cancer in the region. "The levels of radiation there (the city site) have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region," said the newspaper.

Consider these verses from the ancient Mahabharata: ...

"A single projectile Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame As bright as the thousand suns Rose in all its splendour... a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds... ...the cloud of smoke rising after its first explosion formed into expanding round circles like the opening of giant parasols... ..it was an unknown weapon, An iron thunderbolt, A gigantic messenger of death, Which reduced to ashes The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
The corpses were so burned As to be unrecognisable. The hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, And the birds turned white. After a few hours All foodstuffs were infected... ...to escape from this fire The soldiers threw themselves in streams To wash themselves and their equipment.

"The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom." —H. P. Lovecraft

Cthulhu loves you. In a sandwich.

http://www.geocities.com/neverclan/c/cthulhu16.jpeg

Later when someone asked him if this had been the first atomic bomb ever exploded, he said; "well yes, in modern times".
I keep seeing that stated all over the net: I've never seen the original source.
Made up?

Mohenjo Daro: oh yeah. Actually there's a very nasty type of meteor that has very similar effects... I wonder if that could be the answer?

Rajasthan, India: after 8-12000 years with a Fat Man type weapon and it's STILL dangerously radioactive? Hmmm.


Consider these verses from the ancient Mahabharata: ...
Yep, so anyone reading that would think - "Ooh let's build a big bomb" there is NO reference to nuclear weapons or their effects until after the first one has gone off to relate those details to. There are no engineering or physics details to "give the nazis the idea".

TheVisitor,
Why is it when people like yourself try to defend a religion or of course fabricate a reality based upon your own tangent adaptive capabilities, they often come across as complete Nutbar's.

Yes I know all about the "Sacred texts" and it's just a big bunch of rhubarb.

As for your understanding that "god" helps me get up in the morning, there is no such entity as god. Anyone that believes in a god is truly weak minded to have other people make up such stories and make decisions for them.

Alrighty then.
This is "Doomsday scenarios in the religions"... Right?
Perhaps you have a more realistic doomsday story to tell?

I am all ears...:shrug:

Okay a little Scifi story just to keep you happy.

2012 the Einstein Podolsky, and Rosen bridge is breached. This event signifies a dawning of a new age, an age where out past can be observed from the future, where our future can interact with our past.

All those religions that people have followed for years are turned to during this time to be observed, people want to see their messiah and have a chance to interact with their god(s). They are greatly disappointed by events, their religions are proven to be complete fallacies.

If the rule of "No interaction with the past" was followed, the religions we have now would not exist. Some religious leaders decide they have to intervene to save their religions, they identify their historical flag barer's and begin to "Act" out the stories that had been past to them for generations as anecdotes.

Of course they have to keep this secret from the world, as they are now in "Gods Domain", they are the ones shaping the world, manipulating the thoughts of man and Acting out what they believe our world should see. We of course exist in the "future", which could be defined as a "Heaven" since "Only the children may enter."

Since those religions in the past can not just be allowed to be malformed by those that would use them for their own purposes, Scientists across the globe attempt to intervene. Within the documentation, the anecdotal stories passed down from generation to generation they planet the seeds to success for the future. They place "Abstract" portions of current sciences, ideologies and of course our future concerns into all religions. (This ties religions together as one, as the death of any would mean a loss in the datastream.)

Concerns in regards to those countries that have now stepped into "Super power" positions with their war games and nuclear development requires an approach to warn them. Obviously politicians from one country trying to infer the dangers of another countries ambitions in regards to nuclear development is seen as more than just "foreign policy" it can actually be seen as invasive and undermine relations between those countries. So the creation of Abstract stories placed into the religions of those regions to try and teach about the concerns and apply the understanding to never make those mistakes is born. (The texts you tried to refer to).

How does this all tie to a Doomsday, you might ask? Well if events portrayed became a reality, all religion would be seen a lie. It would be understood that our past was interfered with by our future. The God(s) we look to that see's all and knows all, is *US* further ahead in time, capable of seeing our past, our history, our mistakes and our endeavours. The concerns of corruption in regards to this system arises and a new type of war rages, not through the use of guns and bombs, but a war with time. History has more tipex clouding it's annals then you'll ever know.

The Doomsday is a mixture of the truth being made known and some truth being lost to that Tipex being penned by those that try to control the seats of power, manipulate justice and otherwise have the thumb over us. No God(s) to put the world right by this point ;)

[This is a copyrighted plotline, reuse at your Peril!]

MOD: TheVisitor, if you'll post your preaching the 4th time, you'll be banned for a few days. Or maybe more.

Eternal return

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Eternal return (also known as "eternal recurrence") is a concept which posits that the universe has been recurring, and will continue to recur in a self-similar form an infinite number of times. The concept has roots in ancient Egypt, and was subsequently taken up by the Pythagoreans and Stoics. In the Hebrew Scriptures, the notion is supported in the book of Ecclesiastes.[1][2][3] With the decline of antiquity and the spread of Christianity, the concept fell into disuse, though Friedrich Nietzsche briefly resurrected it.

In addition, the philosophical concept of eternal recurrence was addressed by Arthur Schopenhauer. It is a purely physical concept, involving no "reincarnation", but the return of beings in the same bodies. Time is viewed as being not linear but cyclical.

The basic premise is that the universe is limited in extent and contains a finite amount of matter, while time is viewed as being infinite. The universe has no starting or ending state, while the matter comprising it is constantly changing its state. The number of possible changes is finite, and so sooner or later the same state will recur.

Physicists such as Stephen Hawking and J. Richard Gott have proposed models by which the (or a) universe could undergo time travel, provided the balance between mass and energy created the appropriate cosmological geometry. More philosophical concepts from physics, such as Hawking's "arrow of time", for example, discuss cosmology as proceeding up to a certain point, whereafter it undergoes a time reversal (which, as a consequence of T-symmetry, is thought to bring about a chaotic state due to thermodynamic entropy).

The oscillatory universe model in physics could be provided as an example of how the universe cycles through the same events infinitely.

Peter Lynds has proposed a model in which time is cyclic, and the universe repeats exactly an infinite number of times. Because it is the exact same cycle that repeats, however, it can also be interpreted as happening just once in relation to time.[4]

Indian religions

The concept of cyclical patterns is very prominent in Indian religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism among others. The Wheel of life represents an endless cycle of birth, life, and death from which one seeks liberation. In Tantric Buddhism, a wheel of time concept known as the Kalachakra expresses the idea of an endless cycle of existence and knowledge.[5] A notable new religious movement called the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University teaches that this "eternal return" happens once every exactly 5,000 years in an identically repeating cycle [6] ending with a total annihilation of humanity via an imminent and desirable Nuclear Holocaust, civil war and natural disaster [7] information which is generally hidden from non-members.[8]

------------------------------------

Now here's what I posted earlier you censored as preaching.
It was a response to the sci-fi story by Stryder...

Let's compare the two.

-----------------------------------


Originally Posted by Stryder
Okay a little Scifi story just to keep you happy.

The God(s) we look to that see's all and knows all, is *US* further ahead in time, capable of seeing our past, our history, our mistakes and our endeavours.

This part is true.
It's in the Bible...except it's both further ahead and further back in time
How can this be?

No mater how hard you try to hold on to a day......it slips through your hand like grains of sand.
Then before you know it, it's Monday again.
Ever have that feeling?
Everything in time is in a cycle, repeating over and over.
Doesn't nature try to teach us this?

God created ....all of this.
Directly - indirectly through physical laws He set in motion.
Time however long it lasts, is just a temporary "bubble" inside of eternity.
Any way out, either forwards or backwards in time, leads to exactly the same place.
Everything that has a beginning, has an end.
It's a cycle.The way of all the earth.
But outside of this cycle......there is God, and eternity.

Man is a triune being....having body, spirit and soul.
That soul is a child of God, connected..... to God, a part of God.
That's how the seer's or prophets could know the future and see all things in the past and present.
They accessed it from the mind of God, which their soul is a part of.
--------------------------

That was my post you censored in bright red lettering, like I was a child that had done something wrong.

How is this preaching?
It is saying the same thing as the Wikipedia article.
Is this off topic?
Offensive?

Look, I'm not here to push my views on anyone else.
When I look back at my own posts from the past, some of them look pretty simple minded to me.
My understanding is constantly growing.
I get excited when I find out something new and want to share it with others.
Many times it's the sharing, the debate with others here that leads me to the new discoveries.
And I think that's what this should be about.
The free exchange of ideas, not censorship or restriction by anyone unless it gets offensive.
We can't leave it to others to change the world.
It might just be you that gets an idea that will make a difference, or inspire someone else to...

TheVisitor

Okay a little Scifi story just to keep you happy.

The God(s) we look to that see's all and knows all, is *US* further ahead in time, capable of seeing our past, our history, our mistakes and our endeavours. The concerns of corruption in regards to this system arises and a new type of war rages, not through the use of guns and bombs, but a war with time.
[This is a copyrighted plotline, reuse at your Peril!]
Yes, this story was copyrighted by Ben Bova. It's called Orion.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WVQZZ5WPL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg
Pretty good series of books, too. But Bova beat you to it.
http://www.amazon.com/Orion-Series-by-Ben-Bova/lm/CDM52F86ULXQ

Thanks for the link, just read the first 12 pages or so .......looks pretty wild.

He wrote these in memory of Alfred Bester...."The Demolished Man" author.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demolished_Man

Thanks for the link, just read the first 12 pages or so .......looks pretty wild.

He wrote these in memory of Alfred Bester...."The Demolished Man" author.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demolished_Man
Didn't know that. Although I have read The Demolished Man. It's been a while, but I believe it's about a guy who murders someone and the "death" penalty is basically wiping your mind and rebuilding your personality from the ground up so you can become a productive member of society again. Well, not really you, but your body anyway.

Didn't know that. Although I have read The Demolished Man. It's been a while, but I believe it's about a guy who murders someone and the "death" penalty is basically wiping your mind and rebuilding your personality from the ground up so you can become a productive member of society again. Well, not really you, but your body anyway.

Like an early version of "The Minority Report"

E.s.p. remote viewers employed by governments and multinational corporations to prevent crime and control the population, only in "Minority Report" they judged you guilty before you commit the crime...

I mentioned in an earlier post something about how "seers" or "prophets" could access knowledge of the past, present, and future.

II KINGS 6:11
Therefore the heart of the king of Syria was sore troubled for this thing; and he called his servants, and said unto them, Will ye not shew me which of us [is] for the king of Israel?

II KINGS 6:12
And one of his servants said, None, my lord, O king: but Elisha, the prophet that [is] in Israel, telleth the king of Israel the words that thou speakest in thy bedchamber.

I believe this happens when a person is born without the "wall" that separates the conscious and subconscious mind, as is present in the rest of us "normal" people.
They can access the subconscious and the enormous abilities there while they are still awake.....in a "vision".
The rest of us have to go to sleep to access the subconscious, and dream things which may still have significance but are usually expressed in symbols that have to be properly interpreted.

The governments would be attempting to duplicate this rare inherited ability in training their "remote viewers".

* Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.

<gasp> the horror!

Yea especially if they are harmonicas, banjos, bagpipes and the like………..

Mod note: Post by TheVisitor deleted. A fairy tale is not actual history and can't be used in a scientific discussion as a statement of fact.

TheVisitor, if you wish to seriously discuss your wild speculation, please do so in the Pseudoscience subforum.

Cheers!

Mod note: Post by TheVisitor deleted. A fairy tale is not actual history and can't be used in a scientific discussion as a statement of fact.

TheVisitor, if you wish to seriously discuss your wild speculation, please do so in the Pseudoscience subforum.

Cheers!

Its not a fairty tale
...
Text deleted by moderator.
Warning to TheVisitor - continual reposting of a post deleted by moderator is a breach of Sciforums rules and may get you banned for a few days, at first.

TheVisitor has been banned for repeated reposting of deleted material and for spamming other CR threads.

Doomsday scenarios in the religions .....

There are plenty of good ones, many of which sound similar in ways.
The Islam prophecies sound much like Armageddon in the bible, both talk of an Anti-Christ...
The Ragnarok final war sounds much like the post millineal battle of Gog and Magog in the bible....

There is so much that could have been said here...it's a terrific topic, but...

When I quote the Bible's doomsday scenarios I'm "preaching" and Avatar deletes my posts.

I was once a moderator of a science board....20 years ago.
As long as the MOD's on this board are allowed to use their personal preferences any way they please censoring posts without some kind of oversight, there is little hope to have any meaningful discussions.

So I think I'm done here.
This is TheVisitor...

Signing off for good.

\
I was once a moderator of a science board....20 years ago.You were a mod on a science board in 1988? I didn't know they had them back then.


So I think I'm done here.
This is TheVisitor...

Signing off for good.
Too bad. I enjoyed reading some of your posts.

Most toss their heads at religious prophecies so I'll toss one in that can be kept track of.
Smith or Young of the Mormon church stated that the end of the world would not transpire untill a Mormon temple had been built in every country on earth. Now mind you this prophecy was made at least 100 years ago when most who knew Mormons felt for sure it was a dieing religion. Go do a google on how many countries at present have their temples.

Though Mormons visited India in 1849...no Temples there yet...so it will be a while....

I have had a curisousity about the doomsday scenarios and especially the signs of the end time. It is illustrated quite in detail in the Islamic texts. Some signs like widespread draught and famine. People killing each other while not knowing why, a big treasure being found in the Tigris (or Eupherates I think), The big wars, the Dajjal, the black-flagged warriors, the return of the Christ, the Al-Mahdi,... I wonder what are the signs in the other religions and whether the are similar.

Yes, its an interesting subject---especially since our out-going President was a "born-again" believer and the fate of the world, for a while, rested in the hands of a man who would have loved to have been the one who "brought Armageddon and the 'return' of Christ."

In my book, http://atheistic-science.com I have the following:

"We can imagine the grim, final and massive exchange of nuclear fire power and the ensuing crash in human numbers on Earth. We should also add the damage done by new epidemics, ones infecting us, our crops and our livestock.

So, finally, there would indeed be the much-longed-for "End Times" (or "Qiyamah” to Muslims), the one so eagerly awaited for thousands of years by billions of fanatical believers of the world’s old “spirit”-based WV systems. The "missing (Mahdi) leader" or “the Hidden (Shiite) Imam,” Quetzalcoatl (and midnight 12/21/2012), the Hindu coming of Kalki, Krishna, the Hopi Blue Star (UFO) Kochina, the Fifth Buddha, the cosmic regeneration and reuniting with Mazda, the Messiah of Judaism, and a returning Christ would all be seen looming through the mists.

But it would all be mere illusion. Instead of a vast panorama of spectacular phantom beings parading to our rescue, there would be nothing except sulfurous smoke, radiation, and the few surviving members of our now depleted race. Even they would all be divided still by the same old religions all still claiming to be “the Truth” and “the Light” in a world that had suddenly and dramatically become darker. The faithful would have all been wrong again.""

charles

Yes, its an interesting subject---especially since our out-going President was a "born-again" believer and the fate of the world, for a while, rested in the hands of a man who would have loved to have been the one who "brought Armageddon and the 'return' of Christ."I don't think he was any more sincere about his fundie religion than he was about his university studies, his military service, his desire to punish the people responsible for 9/11 (who were, after all, his hand-holding buddies the Saudis), or his declaration of "mission accomplished."

Does this include thoughts on Ray Kurzweil and the coming singularity?

Does this include thoughts on Ray Kurzweil and the coming singularity?

Please do explain how that would help our present crisis....

Simple. The elimination of homo sapien as the sole controlling force on the planet would fix most of our current problems. Strong general AI would make the perfect 'god' for the godless, as it will be able to think so much faster than us. It would be a natural leader, and with the embrace of it's pragmatic logic, our mortal coils cease to have meaning, except perhaps as an example of obsolescence.

Simple. The elimination of homo sapien as the sole controlling force on the planet would fix most all of our current problems.

:worship::worship::worship:

You do not need to think faster...as most yong kids do today. You need to think correctly and have the right decisions at the right time. That is not happening....we definitely need an AI for that....but people are afraid to deal with it.

The Forbin Project, War Games, Battlestar Galactica, The Sarah Connor Chronicles and the Terminator Movies...I Robot.

How many times and how many ways do we need to be told that "Strong A.I." is not a good idea?

Look at what happens to people who begin to rely on calculators to do their simple everyday math...
Before long they can't even remember the multiplication tables they were taught in grade school.
True story.
I know college grads that can't tell you what 9 times 6 is without punching it into their calculator.
These are business owners and managers with college degrees.

Imagine what a little while with "Strong A.I." at your fingertips would do?
Everyone has Internet, Video, TV, GPS, Email and Music on their phones now....
IBM has just created a processor that can match the speed of the human brain at 6 terabytes per second.

All we need is a good neural interface program and we can throw the smart phones away...and any remaining smart humans with them.

Does anyone see the direction this thing is going?
Oh yes, it always seems like a good idea at first.

"Oooh! Ahhh! That's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming."

The Forbin Project, War Games, Battlestar Galactica, The Sarah Connor Chronicles and the Terminator Movies...I Robot.

How many times and how many ways do we need to be told that "Strong A.I." is not a good idea?



Think about who writes these stories. They are non engineers and get a pleasure in writing them. They also write bacterias taking over the world too...or asteroid destroying it etc....

Think about who writes these stories. They are non engineers and get a pleasure in writing them. They also write bacterias taking over the world too...or asteroid destroying it etc....

I'm not just referring to some fictional tales. I can see examples in my own life and those around me already taking shape.
There is a real danger here. Let me explain.
The human element has certain flaws. Examine them in the light of some simple truths.
Take the saying; "If you don't use it....you lose it". This is true of many things including mental facilities.
Everything that has life starts small, then it grows.

The more you rely on something to help you, the weaker you become. I already mentioned the calculator story.
There is something here I call "the law of opposites" at work in the human condition.
What seems to be "the easy way", is really bad for us in the long run.
Things like exercise are examples of "the harder way" which are good for us in the long run.
Humanity always gravitates toward the easier way, the path of least resistance, making each generation softer and weaker.

I will admit that our modern conveniences make life easier.
The "Spell Checker" program I just used is a good example. But there is a dark side.
It has already replaced my own abilities to a certain degree.
I would be lost without it. See what I mean? The law of opposites at work.

So...take the calculator story, add the spell checker story, anything else?
How about G.P.S. It used to be once that airline captains could navigate the old fashioned way, by the stars.
Now they use G.P.S. so there's no need to learn the old ways. We use On-Star in our cars instead of maps.
Engineer's used to do the math on paper using slide-rules and protractors. Now they use computers and C.A.T.I.A.

Take what you see all around you today...and multiply that by 1000. Too much?
Look back fifty years. Now look forward fifty.
Every new tool created by artificial intelligence makes mankind stronger as a whole, yes. With their help.
But at the same time it makes the man weaker. Without their help.
The more you rely on something to help you, the weaker you become.

The effects of this A.I. "Singularity" on humanity have already begun to create a condition of dependency.
None of the big "foreseen" events happen as suddenly as we had imagined.
They are a gradual process, with overlapping periods we perceive only as we look back through history.

Man is still subject to all the natural laws like inertia.
Unless acted upon by some outside force, the logical outcome of this symbiotic relationship with strong A.I. is to continue in the same direction we are going.
We would eventually reach a state of completely lacking the ability for independent thought... among other things.
All this is true, and I haven't even touched on the idea of this A.I. becoming sentient and what that could mean.
Now, since the truth really is "stranger than fiction", this danger is potentially beyond anything you've ever seen in a movie.

"Oooh! Ahhh! That's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming."

Mod, I didn't quite understand your explanation as I'm talking about the predictions and not my personal ideas; but, anyway.

According to Islamic texts the end time will have some minor and some major signs. The minor ones start from the birth of the prophet Muhammed and go on..

Abu Musa Ash'ari (R.A.) narrates that the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) said, "Qiyamah (the end day) will come...

* When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.
* When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.
* When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa).
* When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours.
* When orators and lecturers lie openly.
* When people dispute over petty issues.
* When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on account of having no responsibility of offspring.
* When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.
* When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.
* When lies prevail over the truth.
* When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common.
* When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.
* When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat.
* When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

The following is part of a lengthy Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood (R.A.) when he inquired from Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about the Signs of Qiyamah.

* Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.
* People will indulge in homosexuality.
* There will be an abundance of illegitimate children.
* There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society.
* People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.
* Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments.
* The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.
* The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.
* Gangsters and evil people will prevail.
* Various wines will be consumed excessively.

Auf bin Malik (R.A.) says: I came to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) while he was in his skin tent during the Tabuk expedition. He said to me, "Count six things before the advent of Qiyamah:

1 My death
2 The conquest of Jerusalem
3 Mass deaths amongst you people, just as when sheep die in large numbers during an epidemic
4 Abundance of wealth to such an extent that if a person were to be given a hundred Dinars he will still not be satisfied
5 General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
6 Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
(Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).

IRAQ and SYRIA

Abu Nadhrah says: "We were sitting in the company of Jabir bin Abdullah (R.A.) when he said: 'Soon the people of IRAQ will neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.'" We asked, "Why would such a thing happen?" He replied, "Because of the non-Arabs." (i.e they will prevent food from going into Iraq, in the form of "sanctions" to this day.) He then said: "Soon the people of Shaam (SYRIA) will neither receive any money nor grain." We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: "Because of the Romans (christians)."

CONCEITED PEOPLE:

Hadhrat Abbas (R.A) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) has said, "Islam will spread far and wide, across the seas. Horses will cross the land and seas in the cause of Jihaad. Then a time will come wherein a group of people will emerge which recites the Quraan. They will claim,

'We have recited the Quraan and is there anyone who understands the Quraan better than us? There is NO ONE more proficient than us in the study of the Quraan.'

Then Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) asked the Sahaba, "Do you see any good in their claims?" The Sahaba replied, "No". Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, "But these conceited claimants will be from my Ummah and will be the fuel of the Fire."

sometimes it seems we as Humans must go through the insanity of the grips of past history of peoples , of which is extented into the present , with no disresect to that history , but to advance our Humanity to all Humanity we must become more aware of the potential of all peoples to do good to others and so must the peoples themselves

http://www.hulu.com/superbowl/55719/super-bowl-xliii-ads-hulu-alec-and-huluwood

Yes, its an interesting subject---especially...
...Quetzalcoatl (and midnight 12/21/2012), the Hindu coming of Kalki, Krishna, the Hopi Blue Star (UFO) Kochina, the Fifth Buddha, the cosmic regeneration and reuniting with Mazda, the Messiah of Judaism, and a returning Christ would all be seen looming through the mists.



charles

Kalki is supposed to appear 4,27,000 years hence. He will not destroy the world in Christo-Judaic sense. He will re-establish the rule of Dharma. World will continue after that.