THE EMPIRICAL CHURCH OF HUMANITY
DEDICATED TO ENDING HOMELESSNESS, POVERTY AND NEEDLESS SUFFERING,
And to bring enlightenment and prosperity through science to all humankind.

Founder : Mosheh Thezion radicalman@surfside.net



If anyone reads the bible, one realizes that Jesus said it very clearly for all to read… “Love each other”, we are all brothers and sisters, God is our father, and we as a family should act like a family and behave as families behave… and in a family of God, we cannot accept the existence of homeless people, hunger, and of all the needless suffering which abounds in our world today!!!
Therefore we establish
The Organization of Humanity: a brotherhood dedicated to following Jesus, by doing as Jesus said to do. Loving, caring, sharing and living as one giant family.

Every year in California alone, literally tens of
“billions of dollars” are given unto and taken up by
charity organizations, besides the many churches.
Yet, as of 2004, there is believed to be over 250,000
homeless people in Southern California.

Do you see a problem? Help us fix it.
Read Matthew 25, and choose to be a sheep, not a goat.

IN CALIFORNIA... THERE ARE 33,000 CHURCHES, AND 370,000 HOMELESS....
THATS JUST 11.2 PEOPLE PER CHURCH.. what the hold up?






The Organization of Humanity : A Brotherhood.
As the “Empirical church” maybe considered the mind, it is the brotherhood that embodies the heart and therefore acts, literally as the body, in that all efforts put forth by the church are manifested by the will and effort of the members of the Brotherhood.
The Brotherhood is founded on a simple understanding : religions have served to suggest that we humankind are all Gods children. And if this is the case then we are all one family, and therefore brothers and sisters… and well… I do not know about your family, but in my family we do not let our brothers and sisters eat out of trashcans and sleep in the gutter.
The Brotherhood is dedicated to “specific” long term, and immediate goals.

(1) The Brotherhood is dedicated to ending homelessness and hunger for all humans who desire to work and prosper accordingly, even those who are less able, and those who due to depression or other such problems may find the “real world” job market un- accessible.

(2) The Brotherhood is dedicated to pooling its developed wealth and resources and using them towards constant expansion by the acquirement of housing for those old and new members who by dedicating themselves to some form of labors assures long term growth. (To include housing for the pure charity cases.)

(3) The Brotherhood is dedicated to expansively developing businesses that may serve as income sources as well as employment and training centers for member use.

(4) The Brotherhood is dedicated to the pursuit of abundant and worthwhile work, of all kinds in that it provides worth and wealth for both the whole and the individuals. With the understanding that those who maybe considered “less able” in the real world, can find a home within the brotherhood so long as they try to help out those who do go out and work. Or can regularly take part in fund raising efforts.
Those who do either work directly for the Brotherhood, or find outside income go on a 50 / 50 plan where each working member donates 50 percent of their income. In return, the Brotherhood grants them room and board as well as the shared use of some things which the church and Brotherhood may have available. Such as facilities for exercise, education, entertainment and centers for spiritual / religious enlightenment which we refer to as the Empirical Church of Humanity.

(5) The Brotherhood is dedicated to the serious long term Goal of ending homelessness, hunger and needless suffering around our own neighborhoods and around the “world.”

(6) All members who would take it upon them selves to work in leadership positions must take and hold to a vow of relative poverty, to be scrutinized by the working class. The volume of developed wealth is to go specifically into pie chart division for funding various efforts. These charts cannot be changed.

(7) The Brotherhood is a serious organization with military structure, but without the push-ups, with rank representing levels of leadership, management and accountability.

(8) The Brotherhood is dedicated to the long term survival of mankind, and therefore must focus on the guaranteed survival of its members, by a constant and recycling process of food usage, capable of feeding each member for a period of no less than 17 years, any stored food before it has expired should be replaced and then distributed to the needy (a long term goal, to be undertaken when homelessness has ended).

(9) The Brotherhood is dedicated to the long term goal of continually building and launching massive deep space colony ships housing 10’s of 1000’s of people, self sustaining and capable of lasting the journey no matter how many generations it may take, to find and colonize as many new worlds, moons and star systems as may be available. (To be undertaken by each country, when poverty is ended within said country).

(10) The Brotherhood is dedicated to building Empirical churches throughout the heavens.




there is more... but i will wait.. since people hate huge posts.

-MT

The biggest problem is affordable housing. Here, new homes are relatively cheap, but you must pay for a car, insurance, utilities, etc.. it all adds up. Only the elite can afford decent inner city apartments.

Europeans have denser cities, great social housing programs and offer efficient public transit. We need to take an example from them to end homelessness.

The majority of our homeless aren't just people who have had a bad run of luck and can't pay for a house. They have some major problem that makes keeping a job and working with a daily routine impossible. Some sort of addiction, severe mental health problems, etc. Make some pro bono apartments where they might actually be used and I think half of them would be crackhouses within the year.

If you are perfectly normal and in bad circumstances, things may suck terribly but they will be liveable. You might not have any pride left, you apartment will have more wildlife than the amazon, and Christmas presents might just mean a little extra meat in the soup, but you aren't going to die. Those who have listened to me before should know that I have been there myself and worked my way out of it.

Why don't you just do it the Vlad Tepes way? Lock all of the homeless in a building, and burn it down. Problem solved. Sure, the swiss will bitch about it, but who cares what the swiss think?

is that it?

-MT

Why not? No one'll miss 'em- they're homeless- they have no families to speak of.

Quite often they do have families.... only their kin want nothing to do with them. You don't usually want someone with delusions about being a prophet or a tendancy to stab people talking to your kids.

As corporate sponsored social atomization progresses, I can't even imagine social darvinist societies of lonely people in the future. One thing for sure, it's going to suck bad. No social support network, no state sponsored support network, superficial family ties, "communities" which are not really communities in the full sense of word, "friends" which are more like playmates than friends. Welcome to the "It's all about me and $ I can make for my masters" world. Homeless are going to stay on streets, until some forced labor law is going to be passed. Nothing else can happen in the "I've got mine, screw you" and "he's got what he deserved" world. There is something pathetic and disgusting about modern day peddling "family values" as a substitute for "something" humans still (not sure about the future) starve for.

Well, if all of the professed liberal doo-gooders were to actually DO something instead of just beat their gums, spew hot, hypoctrical air and pretend to care, then perhaps they could actually help the homeless. If each professed liberal doo-gooder helped, there'd be no homeless problem.

I don't give a shit about the homeless, so I don't do anything to help ....but then I don't fuckin' pretend to care, yet do nothing. Hippo-fuckin'-crites!

Baron Max

my dear max
merry christmas ;)

Most homeless people are insane. There are too many people anyway. If you love life, kill useless people and burn their corpses.

what amazes me... is that so many people say that most homeless people are violent and crazy...

and with such views, im sure you dont even try to talk to the less scary ones...

and if you did, you would realise that most of them are not scary at all...

just sad, lonely broken people that nobody gives a fuck about.

and that is the main problem...

50 billion dollars goes to charities each year in CA alone...
benny hinn rasies 100 million a year...

there are 33,000 churches in CA that take in an unknown amount of money.

and still... no one cares enough to get the job done.

I say it is because they.. like most of you... are simply weak docile cowards.

and as such, cannot imagine risking what little you have to help anyone.
its called greed and selfishness.
-MT


The short and the long term objectives of the Empirical Church ,
And how to accomplish them.

It is with an understanding that this is presented in relation to modern day southern California and the efforts which shall be put forth there, however these principles or guidelines should suffice for use in most modern towns and cities across the world generally.
It is always of the utmost importance that we are very clear about what it is that we as a group of human people are trying to do… And why?

Our Goals: First: To end all hunger, homelessness and needless suffering and to bring enlightenment and prosperity to all humankind through science. Second: To set about guaranteeing the survival of the human species, by the use of intelligent resource management, and inter / stellar colonization.

Our Reasons Why: First: When any intelligent human being reads the scriptures of the many religions, one is struck by the clarity of the concepts of love, compassion for others, of family, and sharing which abounds in page after page, and we find that Jesus speaks over and over about how we should love each other, live and work together, and care about each other as one big family, as did Moses, and Krishna, and Mohammed etc…
Second: Only an intelligent multi-million man charitable religious organization is capable of solving the worlds problems, and of building and launching deep space colonization vessels, for in such there can be no profit for the mother planet, only the loss of resources and of prime adventurous humans who leave, therefore the entire effort must be an act of love for there may never be any return on such home world investments. But the rewards may be found as the unlimited destiny of our people throughout the heavens.

Therefore it is with this reference to all the world religions that we become aware of the realization that if all of this scripture is to be believed, even a little, then clearly, God, our father in heaven, does not like for any of his children to suffer, and more importantly, it is literally the duty and job of those more fortunate to care for those who are not.
It is therefore simply a question of how? How do we go from the modern world, to a world where there is no more homelessness, or hunger, or needless suffering? Without losing any freedoms!

(1) Reason tells us that it would wrong to imagine forcing our entire society to give up and or change there ways and function in a more co-operative manner, such as in communism, for do so would be likened to oppression, and such must be avoided at all times principally. However, the concept of freedom should work both ways, and allow for those of like mind to find cause to live and work together, which exists in many forms across the land, as various communes, religious communities, cults and or groups etc… Therefore, let the call go out this day to all human kind, that a new order of organization has come, its members are consider sheep as described in Matthew 25, and are divisible from the bulk of humanities goats by the simple distinction that they care, and have what can be called an overpowering compassion, which has driven them to step forward and join this organization and work together daily for what, as described by our worlds major religions, is the most holy and greatest of causes, to end hunger homelessness and needless suffering. And more so, to drive mankind forward by leaps and bounds outward into a widespread universal expansion, for such is the destiny of man, and it is our duty as Gods children to manifest it into our reality. Therefore begin with recruiting.

2) Having established a base of members to serve as management personnel it then is a simple matter to drive the work force machine consisting of humans, who due to homelessness or poverty may find refuge within the church, into a constant never ending cycle of fundraising by means of public solicitation of charitable donations, the direct marketing of goods, and the establishment of all manner of businesses maintaining all manner of services. Being of course ethically matched to the lowest price competitor. For it is not our intention to overtake any business sectors, but to establish a foothold worth on average 25 percent of the G.D.P. per sector, such that all the funds raised will serve charitable causes and the long term survival of our species. Begin the fundamental work effort of fundraising.

3) Beginning the management of people from scratch, starting with nothing, there are two approaches which seem available, and it is advised that both are pursued. First, in order to facilitate the fundraising and long term growth, it is reasonable to begin with new disciples, which may be housed under temporary status in various low cost motels/hotels, in groups and or individuals for a period of one week, or housed immediately in technically advanced camp sites located on private residential land owned by the church, serving as a transitory period where by based on ones potential, some may find continued use of motels/hotels until such time as land is acquired closer within the many city limits.
everyone takes a vow of relative poverty, and works as a volunteer and the church simply takes care of their most basic needs, and requirements, as a family would, but like tough love, each member must work, at something, there are no excuses, only opportunities, and obstacles to be over-come. From sewing clothes, to carving wood, there is always something to do, and it is important that each person does it at least 40 hours a week, or as much as they are able.

4) Members who take on management responsibilities of the various work efforts that the church may pursue, are considered Purple status, and must be promoted to an Officer ranking position, from Sergeant to General and are provided a small salary relative to that rank. Members who join the church as someone in need, yet who wish to return to the free society are considered Blue status, and go on the 50% plan, as do Purple status members. Meaning they donate 50% of their meager income back to the church, in return for the love of room and board the church shares. Blue status members are assigned officers who oversee their saving and budgeting plans in order to realistically facilitate returning to the free world as a normal working citizen. Green status members are people who simply volunteer to work for the church as and act of love, and in return the church does what it may to keep that person alive under reasonable conditions, as with small but private shelter, clothes, food and access to the many facilities that the church members may build up over time. White status members are the non-compliant, who due to craziness or laziness refuse to work, and are deemed mentally defective, and as such are not abandoned but encouraged to work, by realizing all the benefits of the church, and how it can facilitate happiness, but it is something they have to want, and thus white status members, are restricted to whatever shelters are available, and whatever meager portion of calories is allotted to them, and are constantly encouraged by purple, green and blue members to rise up to green, and by simple labors, enjoy the respect of others, and some basic comforts.
Rank and respect is given to anyone who wants it, but once they have it, they have to earn it.

5) Facilities, projects, and fundamentals : Initially, Field Management personnel shall each be in charge of a platoon of 12 humans, which shall serve as the basic core, for the exponential expansion of membership. Each platoon works as a team towards all work efforts, beginning primarily with fund-raising, growing into direct marketing, and developing simple labor based businesses to further the expansion. Each platoon shall eventually be asked to move into modest apartment style complexes acting as one of our Disciple homes, with separate rooms, with both private and communal bathrooms and kitchen facilities, with recreational quarters and shared use options such as gyms and or pools etc.
Each Platoon shall be part of a Company of 7 Platoons, and each Company shall be part of a Division of 10 Companies, and each Division shall be part of a T.S.G. (Theoretically Survivable Group) of 16 Divisions. Each T.S.G. shall be part of a Unit, consisting of 16 T.S.G. Each Unit shall be part of an Order of 16 Units. Each Order shall be part of a Whole of 100 Orders. By the time we reach an Order, all poverty should be near an end, and our stellar colonization efforts should have begun. By the time we reach a Whole, hunger, homelessness and needless suffering should all be ended. Facilities shall include but are not limited to modest residential shelter in various forms for various members, Gyms and or exercise centers, educational libraries and classrooms, laboratories and research centers, religious study and discussion halls, office / manufacturing space and entertainment centers.
As a long term project, all facilities owned by the Church and Brotherhood are to be solar powered, and all available space is to utilized in the growing of food plants for member use, which includes the long term terra-forming of the many deserts into usable fertile farmland in 10,000 square meter sections. Fund-raise, work, build, enjoy.

6) A vow of Relative Poverty must be taken and adhered to by every member without exception. Relative Poverty does not mean abject, or total poverty. It means simply that each member gives up on hopes of vast wealth, and excepts a modest lifestyle where we limit our living space based on rank and family size, practice modest consumption, seriously recycle and compost everything and make our own goods, by hand, and by machine. From clothes to metal hand tools, each T.S.G. must be fully self-sufficient and capable of all significant levels of needed manufacturing in case the rest of humanity was somehow destroyed. Thus, the strategic distribution of our complete fully functional ability is key to survival in any potential worse case scenario. Say no to greed, live well, prepare for the worst and we may survive.

7) Standards and protocols for cleanliness must be maintained at the highest levels, meaning no hand shaking, no one touches anyone unless requested, mandatory hand cleaning, air filtration for group / private environments, water filtration, laboratory standards of cleanliness in all kitchen, bathroom and farm facilities, and personal grooming is mandatory for all members. Clean white linen for everyone.
The Empirical Church of Humanity -contact: Mosheh Thezion, Avatar General radicalman@surfside.net

Back when I lived in the bad part of town, there was one particular homeless guy who squatted and panhandled nearby. Every damn day he would insult and harass any passersby, including myself, and it was not unheard of for things to become violent. Occasionally we actually managed to wrangle a cop to do something about him but, even if he was carted off, he always showed up again a few days later. We only stopped seeing him after he was arrested for assault and battery on a schoolchild.

This is only an example... but I believe my prejudice is warrented.

In the case of a wacko... you are correct...

And it maybe more true that those in the gutter in small town USA are much more likely to have devient problems...

But here in Big town LA.. we got 265,000 of them....

some of them .. alot of them... are little old ladies.... little old ladies eating from the trash cans....

are they a threat??? do they scare you? do you want them carted off?

you are correct... there are alot of wackos out there....

but in the street next to them, are weak, timid, scare, innocent little people whos only crime was being victumized their whole lives, and were, as such, left to die in the streets.. literally as america drives by and yells "GET A JOB!!!"... BUT NO ONE WANT TO HIRE A DIRTY OLD WOMAN OR MAN WHO LOOKS LIKE THEY EAT TRASH.

WOULD YOU HIRE THEM?

WOULD ANY OF YOU?

-MT

i feel if a person is "homeless" for any lengh of time it is their own fault.
now before you start getting stupid let me clarify.
no matter how a person becomes homeless if they have what it takes they will find a way out of it. if they are unable to and they have help such as churches then well i hate to say it but fuck 'em

Quite often they do have families.... only their kin want nothing to do with them. You don't usually want someone with delusions about being a prophet or a tendancy to stab people talking to your kids.
They won't miss 'em, then.

Leopold99... i hate too say this... but you are sadly mistaken.

Ive been homeless... i know... guess what.. there are few if any churches that will actually help you...

and the shelters only allow you to stay a limited amount of time.

You really have no idea what your talking about...

i was going to insult you.. and say you are cruel.. but it is obvious...

you are just blind and stupid. its not your fault..

there are 33,000 churches in CA alone... they could have solved the problem long ago... its just 11.2 people per church...

But.. go and ask the preachers... ask them and learn..

they dont give a fuck... and they say its not their job to save the flesh..
just the souls...

i.e.. they will preach to you.. and if you accept Jesus.. then their job is done.
they dont need to save your body... since they saved your soul.

they literally use John 12:8 to contradict the entire books of Matthew, Luke and Mark...

Charities in Ca raise 50 billion a year.... and they cant even make a dent.

they all suck... and so do you for being stupid.

-MT

IN CALIFORNIA... THERE ARE 33,000 CHURCHES, AND 370,000 HOMELESS.... THATS JUST 11.2 PEOPLE PER CHURCH.. what the hold up?

What would you do ...round them all up and divide them out to each church? Them force them to stay even if they didn't want to?

It's odd and strange that most homeless people actually "like" being in the position they're in ....they won't stay in shelters, they won't stay in homes, they won't stay any-damned-where ...they want to be out on the streets! The few people that are helped, that accept that help, are, in fact, helped ...but the great majority simply like being on the streets. And we can't force them to accept help, can we?

Baron Max

Better solution: stuff all of the homeless people inside churches, then burn the chruchs down. Two birds with one stone (religion and vagrants).

Leopold99... i hate too say this... but you are sadly mistaken.

Ive been homeless... i know... guess what.. there are few if any churches that will actually help you...

and the shelters only allow you to stay a limited amount of time.

You really have no idea what your talking about...


you are wrong mosheh for i too have been homeless. i know exactly what i am talking about. care to discuss?

What would you do ...round them all up and divide them out to each church? Them force them to stay even if they didn't want to?

It's odd and strange that most homeless people actually "like" being in the position they're in ....they won't stay in shelters, they won't stay in homes, they won't stay any-damned-where ...they want to be out on the streets! The few people that are helped, that accept that help, are, in fact, helped ...but the great majority simply like being on the streets. And we can't force them to accept help, can we?

Baron Max

The point is... if all the churches practiced what they preach... then there doors would have been open to help people long ago...

but the doors are closed... and they let the homeless freeze right outside.

sure there are some good ones.. that try... but they are not planning to solve anything... just help.

like all the charities... they just want to treat the problem... not cure it.

-MT

you are wrong mosheh for i too have been homeless. i know exactly what i am talking about. care to discuss?


it is true... there are many shelters.. that offer real help..

but you are lucky to get into one..

in La... there is room for 70,000 people in shelters..
but there are 270,000 homeless...

do you see a problem?

-MT

some like to say that the homeless like being homeless...

But.. .. did they always think that way??? no..

they used to like having a roof, and regular food.. and maybe a job and security.

but then............ they lost it all..

and after years on the street... WHAT HAPPENNED??

THEY ADAPTED...

that is why mankind is all over this planet... we adapt easily...

we adapt to the cold.. to the jungle.. to life in prison.. to life in the gutter.

we get used to it.... and may even develope an attitude thats its ok.. not so bad.

that is how humans are designed... for as such.. we can fill the earth, and live all over it, in all conditions...

and a side effect is.. that people can get used to anything.

its called survival.

do not be so foolish as to think they really do like it..

they used to hate it... but they had to adapt.. or die.

dont be cruel.. dont be cold.. realise... and care.

they can get used too a warm bed just as quickly.

just as all of you are...

on day one of becoming homeless... your view would be that it sucks...

but after 12 years... you think of it.. as normal.

-MT

but you are lucky to get into one..



-MT
lucky? i accepted whatever work that was offered, some of it really nasty while the other lazy asses slept in their beds. i took up residence in a mans barn to get off the streets. believe me mosheh 98% of the homeless deserve their fate

lucky? i accepted whatever work that was offered, some of it really nasty while the other lazy asses slept in their beds. i took up residence in a mans barn to get off the streets. believe me mosheh 98% of the homeless deserve their fate


and have you spoken with 98% of the 3 million homeless in america?

and let me ask you... what motivated you?

what lessons in life did you learn that gave you the strenght..?

what were your needs.. and how badly did you need them?

these are all variables of the mind... and greed is one of them.

Most of these people.. are not at all greedy... that just want to live...
they dont have the fundamental desire for nice cars, clothes and bling bling.

but..

as children... at age 5.. were we not all equal??

did not they have an equal chance???

so what happenned to those 3 million kids??

they are victums... and they need the strenght of people like you.

its to bad your full of selfish pride in your own accomplishments to be able to see the need for your strenght.

Romans 15:1

"we then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves..."

you may have had the strenght to help yourself..

but by your own words.. you claim clearly.. that you are no Paladin...

you will not lift your fingers to help those who are not as strong as you.

I am sad for you.

-MT

Most of these people.. are not at all greedy... that just want to live... they dont have the fundamental desire for nice cars, clothes and bling bling.

Then let's just leave them alone and let them live as they want! Why are you trying to help them if they don't want your help? And worse, why are you trying to force us to help them?

Baron Max

I wont be helping anyone that doesnt want it...

and i hope to motivate you to help... because as has been made clear..

the majority of humans today.... just dont give a fuck. and should burn in hell.

thats why.

-MT

Drop the minimum wage and worker protection laws and I am sure that any sane enough not to eat their coworkers will be hired on the spot.
'Are there no workhouses?', as Scrooge would say. You could even do it at gunpoint.

Pick a course of action if you wish but know that anything you do will have horrible and far reaching consequences.

and have you spoken with 98% of the 3 million homeless in america?
and let me ask you... what motivated you?
what lessons in life did you learn that gave you the strenght..?
what were your needs.. and how badly did you need them?
these are all variables of the mind... and greed is one of them.
its to bad your full of selfish pride in your own accomplishments to be able to see the need for your strenght.
you may have had the strenght to help yourself..
but by your own words.. you claim clearly.. that you are no Paladin...
you will not lift your fingers to help those who are not as strong as you.
I am sad for you.

-MT
apparently you have misinterpreted my response. i have been there i know.
we are not talking children. we are talking about able bodied people. i have seen it with my own eyes. the lazy asses who stick their hand out and when offered a job "oh man i am too good for that" or "the work is too hard"
and mosheh i am not greedy, what on earth makes you say that?
determined and resourcefull, the ability to think on my feet
as a matter of fact the exact opposite of pride and greed got me off the streets.
sure there are people who desperatly need the help. children, the mentaly ill, people who have been burnt out of their house
like i said, you misinterpreted. there is no need to feel sad for me

Leopold... again i will say it..

romans 15:1
"We then that are strong, ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves."

that is the creedo of all super heros....

obviously.. you dont have that mind set... you... just dont care enough.

-MT

when i offer someone that is homelss a job and they REFUSE, well mosheh you kiss their ass ok?

exactly... we offer them work..;. and if they dont want it... oh well.. not our problem.


we cant help those who dont want it...


but out of 3 million homeless... 98% will not say no...

if only 10 percent said yes.. thats 30,000 we have to work towards motivating the other 2.5 million...

and we arent offering a low paying job..

we are offering a home.. food daily.. and security... and a Job.

that is the difference.
-MT

... and we arent offering a low paying job..
we are offering a home.. food daily.. and security... and a Job.
that is the difference.

Then, Mosheh, why don't you do it ....instead of trying to force or coerce everyone else to do it instead?

Many, many cities have set up numerous programs to help the homeless and most, if not all, have failed to live up to the promises.

Baron Max

Exactly... and all you need do is see why they failed.. and how i propose differently.

and i shall do it myself... and my purpose here is simply preliminary.

-MT

Then go and do it, and stop fucking bugging us about shit we obviously don't really care about. Fuck you and your homeless friends, bitch.

...and i shall do it myself... and my purpose here is simply preliminary.

Remember now, you do it YOURSELF ...don't go trying to get the government to FORCE the rest of us to give our hardearned money to help YOU with YOUR plan!! If you do, then all ye're doing and being is just like a fuckin' dictator stealing from some to give to others.

If you do that, then fuck you and all of your efforts at helpiing the homeless!!

Baron Max

Aren't you retired?

Do you think you paid for your own retirement money? No, you were paying for someone else's retirement money and now hardworking people are working for you.

You should be nicer to people. They are paying for your lazy ass after all.

Aren't you retired?

Do you think you paid for your own retirement money? No, you were paying for someone else's retirement money and now hardworking people are working for you.

You should be nicer to people. They are paying for your lazy ass after all.

No, ye're wrong, Spurious ....I retired on my OWN money! I retired just prior to my 55th birthday with no social security, no company pension, no free health insurance, no nothing ...except what I worked and saved for.

In a few years, I'll begin to draw SS, but I wouldn't have to ...I've saved enough to take care of myself for the rest of my life.

EDIT: But what does that have to do with the homeless issue??? There are plenty of charitible organizations, just filled to the brim with liberal doo-gooders, ...surely they don't need to "steal" from hardworking people who work and save and scrimp to provide for their own families! Tell me, where the fuck are all of those damned liberal doo-gooders?? And why aren't they putting in their money to help?

Baron Max

Mosheh Thezion ,

Nobody cares. I left my church because nobody cares, despite the fact that they were way, way richer then I.

If you want to change the world, then you must first change yourself. Then, all that you can do is teach by example.

Yaba Daba :m:

Hapsberg...: should burn in hell.

Baron: you are correct....
many a Charities exist... in fact in CA they raise 50 BILLION a year... a year...

and where does that money go?

its not feeding and housing people... of this... it should be clear to anyone.

NO... they are paying their salaries.... watering their lawns and worring about number one...

and those charities that do work for the homeless... only treat the issue...

an example... one shleter in santa monica CA... has 5 employees...
that means that one shelter needs something like 70,000 to 100,000 dollars a year just to stay open....

thats is the problem....

Truthseeker: you are correct... that is why i formed a new church..
one that cares...



Lets face it... there is plenty of money.. plenty of Love... plenty of Compassion...

LOTS OF PEOPLE GIVING..... but to who... and what do they do with it.

they dont practice what they preach.... and the Non-profits.. profit to much.

-MT

if i offended you sorry i was being stupid, i should have never attacked your god, it angers me, i also didn't know that you seem to care about others very much so forgive me, i still feel the same way but i should have never said anything like that so sorry

Thomas

who has there own God?

i wish i had one... the one i know of is creator of all things... and owns me.

-MT

hummm

It isn't just a stereotype that homeless people are insane. Since Reagan decided to throw occupants of mental hospitals out on their ass in the streets, it is easy to see why. I remember hearing a long time ago someone saying that was mostly responsible for the homeless situation as we know it today. Although... it's been a long time since then, sadly I don't think it would be easy for them to survive. I do think that is the primary reason for the stereotype. Not to mention, acting crazy is one of the only successful ways people successfully beg in stingy areas - follow them around and be such a disturbance that they get paid to go away.

The only begging that I don't like is the type done by those who actually do have homes. I've been begged at by people who had more money than I did at the time.

Good point about the jobs... It is quite a ridiculous notion that anyone is going to hire a homeless person. These days it's practically impossible to be hired without a home phone #, along with many other things that are impossible for homeless people to have.

Hapsberg...: should burn in hell.
HabsBURG. Comes from the german "Habichtsburg", meaning "Castle of the Hawk". "Burg" meaning "Castle". "Berg" means "Stone".
Get it right.
Second, hell doesn't exist, so...ha ha ha.

Hapsburg:


Second, hell doesn't exist, so...ha ha ha.

LOL!
PWNED!

It isn't just a stereotype that homeless people are insane. Since Reagan decided to throw occupants of mental hospitals out on their ass in the streets, it is easy to see why. I remember hearing a long time ago someone saying that was mostly responsible for the homeless situation as we know it today. Although... it's been a long time since then, sadly I don't think it would be easy for them to survive. I do think that is the primary reason for the stereotype. Not to mention, acting crazy is one of the only successful ways people successfully beg in stingy areas - follow them around and be such a disturbance that they get paid to go away.

The only begging that I don't like is the type done by those who actually do have homes. I've been begged at by people who had more money than I did at the time.

Good point about the jobs... It is quite a ridiculous notion that anyone is going to hire a homeless person. These days it's practically impossible to be hired without a home phone #, along with many other things that are impossible for homeless people to have.

YES.. what they need is a loving uncle who will help them.. seriously.

and uncle sam... doesnt seem up to the task.

thus we must build another one... NOT TO REPLACE SAM...

BUT TO DO WHAT SAM CANNOT OR WONT DO.

-MT

Why don't you just do it the Vlad Tepes way? Lock all of the homeless in a building, and burn it down. Problem solved. Sure, the swiss will bitch about it, but who cares what the swiss think? sure go ahead, a mob of their relatives will meet U soon.

Its Governments responsibility,

They should create infinite exports oriented Jobs+Homes for all people.

Anomalous:


sure go ahead, a mob of their relatives will meet U soon.

I doubt their relatives would give a shit. After all, these same relatives didn't care enough about them to give them shelter, did they now?

Anomalous:

I doubt their relatives would give a shit. After all, these same relatives didn't care enough about them to give them shelter, did they now?
They are all homeless or broke. Because lot of money is spend on NASA and military.

yes... families dont care... and the govt wastes its money...

the only solution is the charities.. but what? wait...

charities in CA.. RAISE 50 billion a year... and still do little.
in CA.. there are 33,000 churches.. and 370,000 homeless...
thats just 11.2 people per church.

the real problem... everyone.. families. govt.. charities.. churches.
really just dont give a fuck.... hence the problem.

the solution then.. is for all those who do... to organise to solve the problem.

i ihave found few online who have that kind of compassion.

-MT

There will be no Homeless anymore, I am killing U all humans at your own hands
http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=969627#post969627

the real problem... everyone.. families. govt.. charities.. churches. really just dont give a fuck.... hence the problem.

the solution then.. is for all those who do... to organise to solve the problem.

Well, if all of those people who CLAIM to care actually DID something, then you wouldn't have to be here preaching about a solution, right? Everyone CLAIMS that they care .........but we know better, don't we? :)


i ihave found few online who have that kind of compassion.

Well, goody then ...you don't need me to lie and tell you that I really care, when I really don't, huh? You and those few should be able to raise the billions necessary to care for all the homeless in the world. I can't wait for the newspaper headlines: MOSHEH THEZION AND A FEW LOYAL FOLLOWERS HAVE SOLVED THE WORLD'S HOMELESS PROBLEM

Baron Max

You know, I was all excited because I thought I had a solution to this problem. But then I realized it was called "slavery". Go figure.

AmishRakeFight

Would setting up a program where homeless people in search of better work were willingly deported to other countries where they would do labor and work for food, lodging, and maybe a small wage, as well as getting to travel? And after a certain period of time, they were shipped back to America. Also, while abroad, they could be educated in basic money management. Would this even be legal?

AmishRakeFight

Why Send Them To Another Country?

Because people in America obviously don't want to hire them. If people wanted to hire bums off the street, it would have been happening. But they apparently don't. So you could send them to another country, let them work labor for a 12 month period or something, put them through basic money managing courses, and bring them back to America. Also, since America is the "land of opportunity" and these people obviously have not been able to take advantage of the opportunity, let them go abroad, work as labor for construction or manufacturing over there for a year, and bring them back with some money and some wisdom on how to use that money to get a new start in America.

AmishRakeFight

Hehehe... "land of opportunity"..... :p
Sooooooo pretentious.... :rolleyes:


Hey look! It's the land of opportunity! So let's ship them all elsewhere! :rolleyes:

you should join up with the Interfaith Hospitality Network, Mosheh Thezion, they do exactly what you are talking about; starting with single mothers and small homeless families.

Help to teach them about resume's, managing finances, getting interviews, and finding a place to live. "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime...." so on and so forth.

http://www.nihn.org/ihn/ihn.html

Hehehe... "land of opportunity".....
Sooooooo pretentious....


Hey look! It's the land of opportunity! So let's ship them all elsewhere!

I just meant that since they obviously haven't been able to get work in America (or maybe they don't want to), then ship them abroad for a certain period of time, teach them life skills, money management skills, give them food and boarding, then bring them back with some money to make a start in America.

AmishRakeFight

What is needed is what a Canadian company did for the homeless after hurricane Katrina. They came in, built a small village for them. In exchange for a home they had to do community service work to pay the rent... It was an interesting article.. Visionary if you ask me... definitely something out of the status quo...

your solution then... is to ship all the poor... to poor countries.

thats quite a solution. a bad one... seriously... are you stupid?

-MT

your solution then... is to ship all the poor... to poor countries.

thats quite a solution. a bad one... seriously... are you stupid?

-MT
I haven't read this entire thread since it's so long and this most likely has already been mentioned. But even if it was, it's worth repeating because you don't seem to understand it yet.

Do you know why the majority of the "Help the Homeless" plans make so little progress against the problem? It's because a very huge percentage of the homeless don't want that kind of help. It would mean they would actually have to work, and what's even worse to a lot of them, they would have a boss telling them what to do. And they strongly resent both of those things.

Has it even occurred to you that so many of them in that condition WANT to be in that condition? "Responsibility" and "effort" are two things that a large number of them resist at any cost.

It's impossible to help those who don't want to be helped.

I haven't read this entire thread since it's so long and this most likely has already been mentioned. But even if it was, it's worth repeating because you don't seem to understand it yet.

Do you know why the majority of the "Help the Homeless" plans make so little progress against the problem? It's because a very huge percentage of the homeless don't want that kind of help. It would mean they would actually have to work, and what's even worse to a lot of them, they would have a boss telling them what to do. And they strongly resent both of those things.

Has it even occurred to you that so many of them in that condition WANT to be in that condition? "Responsibility" and "effort" are two things that a large number of them resist at any cost.

It's impossible to help those who don't want to be helped.

you are a heartless.. arent you?

and no... the reason so many of the people who want to help are unable to get the job done is simple..

salaries...

that 50 billion a year raised by charties... where do you think it goes?

there is a shelter in santa monica ca... in LA...

it houses about 25 women... it doesnt make any attempt to put them to work.. and it has five employees that serve the small number of 25.
5 employees... at basic wages.. thats atleast..

atleast 70,000 to 100,000 a year needed just to pay them... if not more.

i ask you?

how efficient is it..? to spend 100,000 dollars a year to house and feed 25 women???

its not.

give me 100,000 dollars a year and ill house 100's if not 1000's...
and i will live with them... and except a minimum wage salarie.. and still..
donate 50% back to the charity.

that is the difference of my plan... and those who are doing such things today...

their plans arent meant to work... not to solve anything..

only to help... and make a good living while doing it.

do you understand?

-MT

you are a heartless.. arent you?

and no... the reason so many of the people who want to help are unable to get the job done is simple..

salaries...

that 50 billion a year raised by charties... where do you think it goes?

there is a shelter in santa monica ca... in LA...

it houses about 25 women... it doesnt make any attempt to put them to work.. and it has five employees that serve the small number of 25.
5 employees... at basic wages.. thats atleast..

atleast 70,000 to 100,000 a year needed just to pay them... if not more.

i ask you?

how efficient is it..? to spend 100,000 dollars a year to house and feed 25 women???

its not.

give me 100,000 dollars a year and ill house 100's if not 1000's...
and i will live with them... and except a minimum wage salarie.. and still..
donate 50% back to the charity.

that is the difference of my plan... and those who are doing such things today...

their plans arent meant to work... not to solve anything..

only to help... and make a good living while doing it.

do you understand?

-MT

Yes, I understand - that you do NOT understand. And I'm not heartless at all, just realistic.

What I just explained to you is WHY all that charitable effort (money) just seems to vanish each year. A very large number of people have come to depend on it - and want to do nothing more. They've learned that they don't have to put forth any effort in order to be taken care of - and they like it just fine that way.

THAT is true... and who's fault is it??? they are the victums either way.

and what they need is an option to the cycle of paying high rent, high food prices and in the end. being in debt and facing homelessness..

our system today... is not meant to solve anything... just to be profitable.

-MT

If someone doesn't want to pay high rent and high food prices, they should move somewhere where the prices are lower, or get a job where the wages are higher.

To consume more than one can afford is surely a bad idea with serious consequences, but to call someone a victim because they are poor planners seems a stretch.

We live in a capitalistic society which means people are motivated by money. We are diverse, so we don't have anything in common like past generations did. It's unrealistic to expect others to care, so everyone is responsible for themselves. Those are the facts of this brave new world. Utopian ideas aren't of any use here - you have to accept they way things are no matter how brutish or crude they might seem.

NO i dont... 50 billion is raised by chairties in ca alone each year...

even benny hinn... tv evangelist rakes in 100 million a year...

the problem is clear.. greed and selfishness on the part of all the religous organizations and the lack of effiecient practices in all the charities.

PERIOD.

WE COULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM TOMMORROW.. we have the money..

its all just re-directed into people pockets... as usual.

-MT

your solution then... is to ship all the poor... to poor countries.

thats quite a solution. a bad one... seriously... are you stupid?

-MT

Unfortunately, no, I'm not stupid. I'm not stupid enough to spend my creative energies on trying to solve a problem that's been pursued to no avail for an unknown amount of time. You've made your point that California isn't doing their job and that if people would just help out a brother than we wouldn't have this problem. Well, that's dead wrong. Light's right, if people don't want to be helped, why help them? If it's not broken, don't fix it, right? You said yourself that people adapt, and that the street life isn't miserable for them anymore. And, no, I'm definitely not heartless, but I came up with my "idea" in less than five seconds, and it obviously shows. Big deal. I saw the flaws in it seconds after I posted it. And honestly, it's more than you've suggested we do to help the homeless. All you've done is try and guilt trip everybody into caring, repeating the same statistic about California (which, reality check, I'm sure only a small percentage of SciForums lives in California) when the reality is that if the hundreds of organizations that have tried to help are rebuked, then obviously the homeless have adapted well enough that they don't want help. Instead of panhandling, maybe go read some books in the library and learn a trade, or try and get ahead in life instead of wasting away their days begging and hassling people for money?

AmishRakeFight

P.S. Also, I know that your California stat was an example to show that people have the way but not the will to solve homelessness. Please don't try to insult my intelligence by suggesting that my analysis of your motives was incorrect.

YOU didnt really comment on my motives before...

you just said. the solution.. was to send the poor.. to other poor countries.

now.. im sorry.. but that just dosnt make any sense at all..

we are the richest nation in the world... usa.. and if we cannot afford it..

no one can...

we can afford it.. we have the money.. we have the will and desire..

but the people in charge of the churches and charities, have a different agenda.

as you do as well....

-MT

Problem: Ending homelessness
Solution 1: Killing homeless people
Problem with solution 1: inhumane
Solution 2: Funding homeless institutions and bringing homeless people to cooperative homes
Problem with solution 2: society does not favor funding people who dont work for the society but hurt it
Solution 3: Changing the way we educate our children, making every child part of our life, making every child recognize the importance of succeeding.
Problem with solution 3: What about the current homeless people?
Solution 4: Realising that homeless people are homeless because they do not have a strong spirit and thus preaching the homeless people to follow the right path, that it is never too late.
Problem with solution 4: Homeless people will listen to preaching and be on what they were doing, that is being homeless

Conclusion: homeless people are not just homeless, they are also hopeless

YOU didnt really comment on my motives before...

you just said. the solution.. was to send the poor.. to other poor countries.

now.. im sorry.. but that just dosnt make any sense at all..

we are the richest nation in the world... usa.. and if we cannot afford it..

no one can...

we can afford it.. we have the money.. we have the will and desire..

but the people in charge of the churches and charities, have a different agenda.

as you do as well....

-MT
You really don't get it, do you? It's not a matter of "agenda" in the least.

The problem is SO simple, you refuse to see it.

You could pour all the money and effort that you want into the problem using your program along with all the others combined. And it wouldn't resolve it. Why not?

Because it cannot change (fix) the attitudes of the people you are trying to help. They don't want to be helped if it involves actually doing some work and accepting even a little responsibility.

Why can you not understand that?

Light...you sound like dark...that is pessimistic...have some hope...light is hope, isnt it?

Light...you sound like dark...that is pessimistic...have some hope...light is hope, isnt it?
Ha-ha! Good point, Dragon. :)

The thing is I know people and understand their motivations. And one of the facts is that there will always be a certain percentage of the population that is simply lazy. They do not want to work and certainly do not want ANYONE telling them what to do. They know and fully take advantage of the fact that there will also always be those who, out of compassion, will at least take care of their most basic needs.

My own wife worked with these people for years trying to help them improve themselves and their "condition." It saddened her to see the same ones, over and over, keep showing up for handouts but immediately running away when offered even the simplest, lightest form of work. They didn't want that - they wanted only the "freebies."

After trying for a very long time to make some sort of difference in their lives, she finally had to give up and left with mixed feelings of disappointment and disgust.

Bottom line? These people don't WANT to be any better.

but the people in charge of the churches and charities, have a different agenda.

as you do as well....

-MT

Moshesh, please. I'm barely old enough to get my drivers permit, let enough have a secret agenda to supress the poor and homeless.

AmishRakeFight

Moshesh, please. I'm barely old enough to get my drivers permit, let enough have a secret agenda to supress the poor and homeless.

AmishRakeFight
And Moshesh isn't even old enough (mentally) or experienced enough to comprehend what knowledgeable people (and others with good sense) are trying to tell him.

That has been his problem in every thread he has gotten involved with.

He ignores facts and references because - in his own mind - his ignorance of those things makes him smarter than all the rest of us combined! (In my book, that's listed under the definition of "stupid.")

your solution then... is to ship all the poor... to poor countries.

thats quite a solution. a bad one... seriously... are you stupid?

-MT

Are you talking to me???
Then my answer is to you:

No, idiot.
The solution is for business to take an active part in their community by building the homes for these homeless, help to educate them towards mainstream jobs, and in the meantime the homeless are to do community service work that will pay for their clothes, shelter, and food.
It was for a 5 year contract between the company and the tenents.

The Canadian company had land in Louisiana that they converted into a small village.
Would you like me to send you the article? :)

and having been homeless myself at one point in my life...
I am lividly against handouts... The question becomes for these homeless...
What are they doing to get themselves back into mainstream..
There are the homeless who sit on their butts and just expect someone to take care of them.
This Canadian Company is doing it right in my opinion. No handouts, the homeless work for their keep, there is a time period they can stay, and they restore dignity to the homeless and give them hope.

It's a shame more businesses can't do this as well.

I disagree with Light's generalization of "these people", but I cann't disagree that a large portion of the continuously homeless are poor becuase of choice.

We should NOT, however, give up on the plan to help the homeless as a population, just because some have decided to live on welfare (the non-capital 'W' kind) abusively. There are many homeless people and families who do want to get out of homelessness, and only need a little help to do so.

This is where providing oppurtunities to work their way back onto thier feet is so vital. In the terms of Habitat for Humanity; "Sweat Equity" is an extremely valuable thing.

Simply giving someone a place to live does not instill a sense of ownership or pride in that home. This is why housing projects and Section 8 housing is often so badly damaged by its tennants. People need to work in order to feel a connection to the property they are given; so much so that it is more earned than gifted.

There does need to be considerations for the mentally ill in this; my family has worked closely with a single mother and her daughter for years - the mother is very ill, but not so bad that she needs to be commited. She is *barely* functional, however, and ever since her daughter was 10 years old, my Mother has worked with the daughter to ensure that the bills got paid. The mother is so unable to deal ith everyday issues that her now 16 year old daughter has pretty much been the head of household for years.

They would not have been able to get out of thier homeless state were it not for outside help through the IHN linked earlier, at no fault of the daughter.
Without the additional budgeting and bill-paying education my Mom provided, the daughter would most likely still be on the street; the temporary home that the IHN was able to find for them ran out, with no progress made toward finding perminant housing. The state had turned down multiple requests for the girl to be put into a group home; living on the street, not going to school or having a fixed set of friends, the girl would have had serious limitations in her ability to break herself out of homelessness, given her mother's illness.

SHE was not hopeless, Light. She is currently averaging a B in her Sophmore year of HS.

I disagree with Light's generalization of "these people", but I cann't disagree that a large portion of the continuously homeless are poor becuase of choice.

We should NOT, however, give up on the plan to help the homeless as a population, just because some have decided to live on welfare (the non-capital 'W' kind) abusively. There are many homeless people and families who do want to get out of homelessness, and only need a little help to do so.

This is where providing oppurtunities to work their way back onto thier feet is so vital. In the terms of Habitat for Humanity; "Sweat Equity" is an extremely valuable thing.

Simply giving someone a place to live does not instill a sense of ownership or pride in that home. This is why housing projects and Section 8 housing is often so badly damaged by its tennants. People need to work in order to feel a connection to the property they are given; so much so that it is more earned than gifted.

There does need to be considerations for the mentally ill in this; my family has worked closely with a single mother and her daughter for years - the mother is very ill, but not so bad that she needs to be commited. She is *barely* functional, however, and ever since her daughter was 10 years old, my Mother has worked with the daughter to ensure that the bills got paid. The mother is so unable to deal ith everyday issues that her now 16 year old daughter has pretty much been the head of household for years.

They would not have been able to get out of thier homeless state were it not for outside help through the IHN linked earlier, at no fault of the daughter.
Without the additional budgeting and bill-paying education my Mom provided, the daughter would most likely still be on the street; the temporary home that the IHN was able to find for them ran out, with no progress made toward finding perminant housing. The state had turned down multiple requests for the girl to be put into a group home; living on the street, not going to school or having a fixed set of friends, the girl would have had serious limitations in her ability to break herself out of homelessness, given her mother's illness.

SHE was not hopeless, Light. She is currently averaging a B in her Sophmore year of HS.

That was a nice story, and with a happy ending (the kind I prefer) - thank you for sharing it.

In all fairness, I certainly do not mean ALL of them. When I used the term "these people" I was speaking specifically of the ones I had identified in an earlier post that refuse to improve themselves, no matter how much help or opportunities they are given. And at that time I thought I made it clear that it was a percentage of the homeless and absolutely not all.

I suppose others might use terms like " hard-core homeless" or whatever other label but it's still a fact that a number ("these people") are among the homeless.

I agree with that. Many people in the system have become accustomed to getting handouts; as your wife sadly discovered. :(

It hurts everyone, and it is sadly common.

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HANDOUTS...

thats what the existing system does....

im talking about a commune... where everyone helps out as they are able.

and if they wont work... they get placed in group shelters and provided only a vegan diet... no meat...

if they want meat they can work..

or they can leave anytime....

we cannot force help on people.

but asking them to work hard to pay high rent and buy expensive food, and the hassle of bills and taxes and all the endless stress that people deal with just living normal lives...

they... most of them are not up to it.

that is what the church is for.. to be that family just as JESUS said.. to love our neighbor as our self.. and be that support structure for them.

all they need to do is get up and show up.... and if they need help with that we will offer it as well.

everything else.. will be handled for them.. by members who are more able.

its as fair as can be.. and if you actually took the time to consider the plan in any detail you would understand that it is a good and fair plan...

it is what we should be doing for them...

and would allow us to stop doing to them... what we now do.. all over america.

which is spit on them... and throw pennies and give thanks its not us.

we can fix that.

and i will do as i am able.. with or without any of you.

but i do need generals to open branches around the world.

-MT

Well I would like to say a little something on this subject,
The majority of society is dependant on some one to give them a hand out,Mnay people who are say middle class in income think that they actually work for what they have when in reality what they have is actually a hand out, Their area of work is funded by the goverment which pay usally a price 10 to 20 times normal cost for the product or worked prefomed, the goverment funds many areas of employment in this manner it is this funding that pays for that middle class life stlye. Some people might say well i work for it ect... fact is even if we put the actual work to what they do own we finbd that most people of the middle class could not possibly or have not done enough work even to build the products that they do have under their own hand, meaning that under self managment and self labor they did not do enough work to even create what they own, to classify them as middle class,.... they have not done enough work to build their own house, build their own boat, car, make their own cloth, toaster, oven, or build their own furniture ect... mine and find your own metals.
So what we really find is that is that they are really dependant on society and the creation of the montary system. AS mathamatically when find that their daily labor does not meet the requirement for creation of the product they desire, the burden of much of there life falls actually on the poor, now days poor people from other countries, and it is currently changing to the burdern of the machine created to make products.
Some people should take a look as some history of labor so they can see how labor intensive it is to produce sometime even a simple product.
In the past it took many hands to produce products, in today society we can see that their is simply not enough jobs for every one to work and it has been this way for several decades, the machine and invention has gretaly reduced the need for labor or plain work, even in specialized feilds, a simple mathamatical calculation of population verses demand would show you that it takes say 10% of the population to provide for the other 90% , so where do the other 90% work? Realtiy is that their is no place for them to work, for this same reason companies can only make a limit amount of income in sales to the public, so various companies instead of making quality products create products that are desigened to fail after a given time of use, this insures that they will remain in buissness. Most products can be made to last beyond the life time of the user but are not made in such fashion as it would mean the end of buissness and making money, 260 million quality cell phones built to last a life time would be produced in a matter of a year and there would be no need for making any more cell phones!!! ending the cell phone manufatureing buissness. It creats other social problem such as polution and waste, which tax are enviroment in mining, landfills ect... that are all payed for by the govement in the most part.
Plainly people take what they have bought with the dollar for granted and think that such products make them more deserving than others that where not chosen but equally as skilled, when all the while the mojority of this luxury life was payed for by the poor people, the machine, and a few smart inventors.
Like i said earlier there is not enough real jobs for every one and so many jobs are actually created with out need, some organizers support this uneeded labor or service to advance society in a given area much simular to the goverment.
Some organizers uses this imbalance to push population growth in certain areas,much simular to how ciites use a zoning code, many time there are groups of these people that want to make a ceratin city a certain way ect.... and so they use prices, such as rent rasies, food prices to push social gourps around. Goverment in addtion uses law to push groups around that are not finaclly manuverable, and so there you also find lobbist in goverment ect.....

In addition to there not being enough real work around for the population, there is to much land in say america for there to be in realtiy homeless people, homeless people exist because society makes people homeless, becuase society makes people dependant on each other for advancement and daily life and constricts access to land.
A very good example is a woman with three children and no husband in a city life stlye she can not support those children, there is no work, there is no place to live that is because she is completely dependant on society for access to goods because she is constrained by the confines of society. In contrast a eskimo woman living in the artic region with three children can provide for all three children, she has access to land where she can build shelter,gather roots and brush, meat ect... resources to sustain thoses lives.
It is the oganzization of goverment and society that have allowed this natural right of life to be constrained, and so society and goverment are resonsible for the difficulties created when making natural function of life constrained to a difficulty.

Think about it Animals are not homeless are they! they make homes gather food ect... why should a human be less than a animal in a advanced civilization.

While you think about that, think about the fact that there is to much land in the USA for there to be a justifcation for homelessness, It seems that it would be a international embarrassment for such a country as the US to have such a social circumstance when other countries have almost no such circumstance of homless ness and are actually overpopulated.


DwayneD.L.Rabon

I totally agree.

In fact, I don't think we should have government anymore :bugeye:
But we are not ready for that.... :eek:


We need a different system that is not based on work and consumption...!! :eek:

Well Certainly the general population has been formed to be so co-dependant, that absoulte independence would be difficult, and destroy just about all the advancment of the human race.

Work is a important part of life, biological funtion both mental and physical well being, so humans will have to stay organized, and some way customs will have to change, managment will have to change, some balance of captializm and socializm focused on the well being of society.

After all life is pretty short,when you put the math to the functions of life, which is a fact that many people forget. 86 years minus 20 years education, and 20 years old age not including the wayward circumstances that can consume about 5 years to recover in most cases, where talking in just those simple number of about 25 to 30 years of living alert to life.
Under the current order of life i would say that you would have to exstend the life of a human another 86 years just to make it understandable and have meaning and work with proper benefit to the life indivdual, which we all know that a extra 86 years just does not happen.

Some where the potenial of human intelligence and civilization is not reaching its prefomance, but just what can we exspect to be the complete measure on a planet such as earth, food, water and shelter?


DwayneD.L.Rabon

Well Certainly the general population has been formed to be so co-dependant, that absoulte independence would be difficult, and destroy just about all the advancment of the human race.
Absolute indepence is not very easy. I mean... just to make breakfast it would take the whole day. And that's just bread and coffee. If you want the butter, you have to take a few days doing it!! :eek:


Work is a important part of life, biological funtion both mental and physical well being, so humans will have to stay organized, and some way customs will have to change, managment will have to change, some balance of captializm and socializm focused on the well being of society.
The future is in information. But not just information, actually...


Some where the potenial of human intelligence and civilization is not reaching its prefomance, but just what can we exspect to be the complete measure on a planet such as earth, food, water and shelter?
It can be done. People need to change the focus to mankind is a whole instead of just money for themselves. It's when you serve others that you actually get the big bucks- and the real satisfaction...

the church and its brotherhood are the option... that is what it is for.

-MT

Absolute indepence is not very easy. ... People need to change the focus to.... mankind is a whole instead of just making money for themselves. It's when you serve others that you actually get the big bucks- and the real satisfaction...

Sounds to me like you want communism back in action...cause ur statement sounds exactly like the communists in russia trying to prove to people the false roof capitalism creates for its people

Sounds to me like you want communism back in action...cause ur statement sounds exactly like the communists in russia trying to prove to people the false roof capitalism creates for its people
What the fuck are you talking about? Just because I think globally now I am a communist? :bugeye:
Someone has to be really retarded to have such an ignorant view of what communism is, eh....! :eek:

Here, let me shake some reality into you....
The True Purpose of Capitalism (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=974238#post974238)

the church and its brotherhood are the option... that is what it is for.

-MT
What has the church accomplished so far?

A great many things, not all of which are good...

Zip