View Full Version : Episode 2-THE DISCUSSION
01-27-02, 01:02 PM
Attack of the Clones-will it be a monumental achievement and be regarded as the best Star Wars movie ever or fall below even the horror of The Phantom Menace?
George Lucas as you may or may not know did not direct the Empire Strikes Back, however that movie is hailed as the best Star Wars film ever and was directed by I believe the man that did "The day the Earth stood still." Lucas has repeatedly said that he is trying to make AOTC like ESB, but the problem is the guy that directed ESB isn't directing it.
Rumors? Expectations? Did YOU actually like TPM?
01-28-02, 06:40 AM
Is it even worth trying to make AOTC like ESB?
Wouldnt it be better to try something different? Yeah, Empire Strikes back was cool, but should George Lucas spend so much time copying a former glory? Why not try something a bit different, something that hasnt been done in Star Wars before.
01-29-02, 04:15 PM
I´m keeping the faith. Trailer was great and the story is strong.
I think it could be payback time for the non-believers :)
TPM was just prolouge. Now it´s time for the main feature.
Love leading to the darkside... and baby luke born from that doom.
Epic stuff :)
I am hoping to to be swell. George has to redeem himself, in my eyes. TPM was not what was expected for a star wars movie. It was not, rugged so to say. There was too much glamour, and nice looking ships. one of the things that made the previous movies so cool, was the broken down ships, the feeling that it was all anarchy. Of course, you could interpret that as a result of the crashing republic.. christ.. I am such a nerd...
01-29-02, 07:46 PM
The problem is that George doesn't realize that he has to redeem himself. He's entirely satisfied with TPM. Good lord, the man is a 60-something child who lives alone on a ranch somewhere. 20 years of being told he's a genius imparts an overconfidence that can only be misguided, since the man is clearly not.
ug...I just woke up and time no longer feels linear - very weird.
01-30-02, 06:40 AM
well it'd be better if AOTC was like ESB in the way that ESB was just overall a good movie. In TPM you could see the same elements of the first movie, how a huge ship is destroyed from the inside (I wonder how Lucas comes up with this over and over again. Does he sit at his desk for days thinking: "How can ANAKIN destroy that ship. There must be some way-wait! I've got it! He'll fly inside and blow it up! I'm a genius!). I just hope that there isn't a huge battle scene at the end of AOTC, because that's what made ESB so great-there was action that satisfied the sci-fi type actiony guy and also a psychological thriller/love story that would appease most film critics (Pauline Kale).
I don't know about anyone else but I really want the next one to be directed by Peter Jackson, I REALLY want it to be.
01-30-02, 06:56 AM
Pollux V said:
well it'd be better if AOTC was like ESB in the way that ESB was just overall a good movie.
True, definately, but I think there is too much obsession with comparing AOTC to Empire. Sure, Empire was cool and dark and stuff, but there is no need to do it again. I mean there are other ways of making a movie. There are other ways a Star Wars film can be tougher and emotional without having to be like 'The Empire Strikes Back'. Something psychological would be cool though.
The problem is that George doesn't realize that he has to redeem himself. He's entirely satisfied with TPM. Good lord, the man is a 60-something child who lives alone on a ranch somewhere.
I agree, he's been out in his ranch with his millions of dollars for too long. I think he is trying his best, but someone needs to slap him round the face a bit. I still respect the bloke though
01-30-02, 04:31 PM
I just dont have much faith in lucas, he really doesnt seem to be able to come up with anything other than what the first three films were. I expect that the third will probably be more like ROTJ, but I hope not.
01-31-02, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Pollux V
I just dont have much faith in lucas, he really doesnt seem to be able to come up with anything other than what the first three films were. I expect that the third will probably be more like ROTJ, but I hope not.
Yeah I know the feeling, thats why I'm a bit skeptical about Episode 2 when people start making comparisons to "The Empire Strikes Back". I've heard it reffered to as a 'fools errand' to return to the ground of a previous victory. The Empire Strikes Back was great but when you hear people talking about making AOTC like it, it just sounds like a last ditch attempt to get the old fans back and play the same trick again on the new generation. Hell, you said it yourself that Lucas is trying to make AOTC like Empire when the person who actually directed Empire isnt directing this one. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying with the comparisons, but there has got to be other things that could be done with Star Wars. Why not make it more of a drama or actually make it a war film since we're supposed to be dealing with the clone wars at some point. Perhaps not as strong as something like 'Full Metal Jacket' or 'Platoon' since it is supposed to be a kids film and is more about the characters like Anakin and Obi-wan, but I think it would benefit by having a change of pace or style.
Ideas on the back of a postcard please...
02-02-02, 01:49 AM
Who thought of naming of the second Star Wars movies? I wonder if someone was on something while naming the movie.
02-02-02, 03:32 PM
I don't have any faith in George anymore either. Hes becoming to commercial and many of you have heard me say this but the only reason Jar Jar excist is because george needed someone to do pepsi commercials. Just the other day I saw a preview for episode 2 and in the background of one of the shots there stood Jar jar, george lucas can eat my @$$ now I dont care for him anymore. ::sniff::
02-03-02, 02:16 PM
You know the truth, though, counsler, no matter how bad the critics and all your friends say it is you're still going to go. It'd be funny if we started a sienfeld-like star wars thing when the movie comes out to see who could go the longest without seeing it.
I hope I get pleasantly suprised by the next episode, because "Attack of the Clones" sounds like the title of a children's comic book or something. :bugeye:
Star Wars would have been better had the new episodes not even been produced :mad:
02-05-02, 06:26 AM
I hope that he allows other people to make star wars movie spin-offs, people like spielberg and jackson who would really make great movies based on some of the more popular fiction written in the last decade.
I liked TPM... not as much as ESB, but I liked it. Face it, the basic plots of all the Star Wars movies were never original. Similar plots had been done billions of times. If you're watching for the sake of creative plots, Star Wars was never the right place to look... it was never Lucas' intention, Lucas knew from the beginning he was crafting a myth and the story would take a direction guided by that.
With myth, and especially with monomyth like Lucas is doing, it's about how well you do it rather than what you do. It's about how well you show it. Monomyths are myths that are in essense about the internal self, where everything shown in the conflicts in the myth can also be understood as internal in the mind of a generic person. You set the myth "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" so that you can get a more objective view when it's really all about the human mind. Yevgeny Zamyatin's We is a classic great monomyth (Zamyatin used the monomyth to make a political statement, but that gets complicated)... studying that in high school, I was fortunate enough to have a teacher who constantly related it back to Star Wars. ;)
There are some things about TPM that have a lot of depth, that I love. Just Senator Palpatine alone, and what he represents, could take forever to talk about. Palpatine is like a virus. He finds a weak cell, wiggles his way in disguised as something friendly, promises peace and prosperity... even as he's been the architect of the evil he acts so pleased to see destroyed. Once his scheming gives him control, he's installed as the brains of the galaxy and he can quickly infect every planet in the Republic. It's so much more effective than military conquest... simply get inside the existing system and manipulate it to your advantage. He's even in charge of the antibodies, a.k.a. Jedi, whose duty it is to fight infections... those who fight infection now take their orders from the disease itself.
AOTC is really the critical point, lots of great stuff that has to be covered here. My only major worry is that there isn't enough time to fit everything in just 2 movies.
I do love all the rain they have in ep ii. There's no better way to do the crucial parts of the turning point of the saga than to represent the internal storm with a real storm. :)
02-08-02, 07:56 AM
Well, Hoth I happen to be the proud owner of the DVD and dl the 'Mystery' trailer but was pissed off that it didn't stay on my hardrive. TPM would be a good star wars movie if it didn't repeat what had already been done and if Anakin above all had been directed better. Plus, with Jar Jar, there's a difference between being funny and being stupid. The only comedic line that I can think of now in TPM was when qui gon says 'there's always a bigger fish' during the brief underwater chase sequence.
In the other star wars movies 3P0 and R2 were the perfect comedic relief, they weren't stupid, they just bickered all the time and got into hairy situations. Jar Jar is just stupid and the poor guy that played him has a ruined acting carreer because of it.
After watching one preview and hardly remembering the other the acting on Anakin's part looks good in most parts but possibly a little iffy in others, and of course Ewan Mcgreggor appears to be doing great, however I don't think I saw enough of Amidala to warrant a real conclusion to how good her acting will be. Lucas can direct well-anyone remember 'American Graffeeti?' But I've just lost a lot of faith in him due to TPM.
I don't like Jar Jar, I guess I'm just better able to ignore him. I never cared much for the comedy parts of the original trilogy anyway.
Anyone else watched any of the Ep II "Making of..." videos on starwars.com? Strangest thing I see there is Boba Fett being an 11 year old kid... that's going to be kind of hard to adjust to.
02-08-02, 05:03 PM
The main problem for me in TPM was the spacing between action and dialogue. Usually in a Star Wars film, there is the big opening sequence, then the film kind of calms down for about half an hour, then it kind of literally explodes. You know like in Star Wars we start off with a battle in space, then there are the droids launching in the escape pod, and then it cools down and we see them moping round the desert for a while ecountering some jawas and being bought by Luke with the odd run in with some sand people before they all hop into the Millenium falcon and the film picks up speed again.
In TPM, the first half hour was crammed with action, but it just seemed pointless. I mean it was cool when Obi-wan and Qui-gon appeared and had to fight their way through battle droids, but after that it should have slowed down, instead they swam off into that underwater place and had an utterly pointless conversation with those gungans, then they were being chased by huge fish, then more lightsaber battles, then back in outer space trying to outrun some other ships (yawn). I mean it was all impressive on a technical level but everyone was bored stiff at that point. Then when the action finally did stop, it took ages to get going again. It then spent too much time in the desert waffling about Anakin before we were treated to the pod race and after that was over and done with, everything slowed down to a crawl. The last half hour was as bad as the first because it had far too many action sequences going on at once, the lightsaber battle, Jar Jar fighting more probe droids, the space battle, and the princess storming her way back into her palace. At least if the action and dialogue had been spaced out better it would have been an enjoyable film, mind you it still would have been a bit average after watching the old trilogy. They should really focus on the lightsaber battles in this trilogy rather than space battles. I mean there are hundreds of Jedi alive and well in this trilogy, so George really should have given them more focus in TPM instead of worrying about computer generated frogs and trying to recreate the space battles from the old films.
02-08-02, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Hoth:
Strangest thing I see there is Boba Fett being an 11 year old kid... that's going to be kind of hard to adjust to.
Yeah but I hope he's not gonna be like Anakin in TPM. Is this George Lucas answer to the prequels now? Throw in a child version of a favourite character. Is there gonna be a child version of Han solo in Episode 3 too? I dont really like the idea of an 11 yr old Boba Fett, it kind of spoils the mystery. Besides, Jango Fett looks pretty much like Boba Fett except with a new paint job and a second coat of wax, so he will probably be indistinguishable from Boba fett unless they give him a dramatically different character.
02-08-02, 05:31 PM
It needs a better title. I mean, "Attack of the Clones"? That's putting it rather weakly, I think. Maybe "Ascent of the Clones" would work better, ne?
02-08-02, 07:26 PM
I said much earlier when they first released the title a few months ago "Assault of the Cloned" would be better. The only problem with that title is that it sounds like the people that have been cloned are attacking but the sentence actually has a double meaning. The cloned can either by the people cloned or their copies.
But Ascent is good too:p (what's up with yer name anime_skeptik, what are you skeptical of?)
Hoth once you've seen the each of the movies like eighty times you'll realize how funny 3PO and R2 are in the first and second movies, in the third they have no part in the entire film. Seriously what the hell do they do in ROTJ anyway?
In ROTJ, they exist to make the Ewok scenes even worse. ;) (You know, the radio drama version of ROTJ is significantly better than the movie. Mainly because the Ewok part is way, way shorter. 3PO has a little better humor in Jabba's palace in that version also.)
I've seen the movies hundreds of times, and I'm not saying they aren't funny, that's just not one of my main reasons for liking Star Wars. For instance, I'd say the best parts of ESB are when R2 is out of the picture -- the cave, and the duel at the end for example. (R2 going at Vader's legs with a saw just wouldn't have been as dramatic as a lightsaber battle. :D )
02-11-02, 06:33 AM
Yeah I wouldn't say R2 is too imporant in ESB, 3P0 had much more lines (if lines count as beeping) and was usually involved in comedy one way or another.
02-17-02, 03:24 PM
Don't everybody continue the conversation at once.
OK, I'll resolve not to post here if everyone else promises the same. :bugeye:
Since I didn't get a signed notification of non-participation in the allotted half hour I'll continue.
Just found an interesting site a few minutes ago: Food Wars (http://www.romm.org/audio/)
Take a pinch of tolerance for bad acting, a cup of tolerance for bad writing, and a gallon of very weird sense of humor. Baked for an hour, it produces pleasure and enjoyment.
"Darth-o-matic, dark lord of the sink, and his evil emperor are scouring the galaxy in order to rid it of all traces of home cooking, hoping to replace it with entirely automated institutionalized kitchen, in which all the food tastes the same -- bland."
Just a few things I'd like to mention...
The naming, Attack Of The Clones. It sucks. But take a look at the other names: Star Wars - A New Hope; The Empire Strikes Back; Return Of The Jedi. All the names are pretty much the same. Each of them reminds me of old Flash Gordon comics. So AOTC isn't out of order for this series of films.
The bit on the preview of Jango Fett going toe-to-toe with a Jedi looks damn cool. All hail the Fetts.
I didn't like the way Phantom Menace so closely followed A New Hope in theme. Even had the exact sam ending. It seemed to me a blatant grab for nostalgia when they should have been trying to write a better movie.
I suspect they will make an enormous error in detailing the change in Anakin. I suspect they are going to make him a selfish brta who turns his back on Jedi ways to chase a skirt. It seems to me a much better way to handle it would be to work it out through Anakin's past and his beliefs about the Republic. As we saw in Phantom Menace, Anakin was raised a slave even though slavery was supposedly outlawed. We saw how the rules of the Republic did not reach everywhere, and how the Republic was basically a great big bureaucratic joke. Naboo ended up supporting Palpatine, in fact the Queen gave him instructions to do whatever was necessary to make the whole damn system work. So that gives us Anakin, a kid who was raised a slave because the Republic is crap, spends his developmental years seeing how crap the Republic is and how it doesn't really work. It seems only reasonale to me that if he could get his hands on the power required, he would work with Palpatine to make a universally fair and just system. If that effort required bloodshed, he would do it. This I think would be a far betetr way to handle the change from Anakin to Vader. Not a rash decision based on the anger and pain od an injured kid or whatever, but a rational move based on beliefs held since childhood.
Originally posted by Adam
I suspect they will make an enormous error in detailing the change in Anakin. I suspect they are going to make him a selfish brta who turns his back on Jedi ways to chase a skirt.
It’s not about chasing the skirt, it’s about what that represents. I wouldn’t call it selfish to wish for self-determination. For a teenager to look to control his own life isn't evil. To question the way things are needn't be selfish, it can in fact be for the greater good – to correct an injustice of the system.
Remember, Lucas is saying there is something wrong with the Jedi as they are at this point. That's why Anakin must bring balance to the force as he does at the end of ROTJ through Luke. The Jedi of TPM and AOTC are missing the balance that Anakin as the chosen one eventually brings. Anakin must change things and break with Jedi tradition, because he recognizes that things as they are aren’t right.
I think you'll see it's more like the Jedi turn their back on him and what he wants to be and what he thinks everyone should be able to be… kind of forcing him to turn his back on them in return. However, after turning his back on them he still doesn’t become truly evil until Palapatine gets involved and twists Anakin to his purposes.
Anakin sees a general wrong, an imbalance, in the galaxy. He's correct about that, he's simply unable to realize that by drawing from the dark side he's becoming a worse wrong.
02-19-02, 03:47 PM
plus that nataly portman is one hot momma:cool:
I just wish they'd leave her hair alone for once. Plus, she's more beautiful without the queen's makeup.
05-01-02, 12:43 PM
Well since Episode 2 is nearly upon us I thought I'd revive this topic. I've decided to be spoiler free until the film is released, though I dont really like the look of the new Anakin at all. He looks like an older version of the kid that was in The Phantom Menace but I cant really see him transforming into a menacing Darth Vader, so I'm a bit dubious about the new film.
So whats everyones else views towards the film at the moment? Is it gonna restore Star Wars to its former glory with a deeply involved story or is it just gonna suck big time with run of the mill lightsaber fights?
Whether you loved or hated Phantom Menace, I think you should all take a look at this: Review of AOTC! (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=11796)
05-01-02, 02:50 PM
Seriously, though I think Episode 2 will be awesome, I can't wait till the trilogy ends. Lucas is getting old and I hope he doesn't make three more after. He needs to quit while hes ahead. This isn't because I like Star Trek better, just honest opinion. (Star Trek should stop making movies too). The only series that should still continue is James Bond.
05-02-02, 11:34 AM
I think that it will suck reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally bad, but it will be better than the last one, especially if Jar Jar dies.:D :D :D But yeah, I'd say that 20 years of being called a sci-fi messiah has kind of addled 'ol Georgie's brains. And the titles! I mean, the original titles weren't so creative, but I mean, the new ones have the most incredibly stupid names!!! I'm still gonna' go see it though. :D
05-02-02, 11:37 AM
Everyone in my general area WILL be lining up outside the cinema at five, at least three hours before it comes out. Or I will anyway. They may not...follow me.
05-02-02, 02:43 PM
I'll definately be going to see it as soon as its released, I've just decided not to hold any high hopes for it. I'm a big Star Wars fan, but I've become much more cynical towards it after TPM.
The thing is everyone seems to be getting over excited with AOTC, didnt anyone learn their lesson from the Phantom Menace??? I remember seeing the trailers for the Phantom Menace before it was released and I 'knew' that the film would be exceptional, how wrong I was. Dont believe the hype. Attack of the clones will probably be nothing more than a mildly entertaining slice of Star Wars with a dollop of nostalgia thrown in to rope the old fans back in. I dont like saying that much, but I've got a feeling its gonna be true (or perhaps semi true)
05-02-02, 02:52 PM
I guess we'll just have to see what happens. It comes out in two weeks so we won't have to wait THAT long.
05-02-02, 07:53 PM
"Hmm, Sith you are. Your arse I will kick, yes?"
"I'm not afraid, Jedi!"
"You will be... You will be... HYAHHH!"
Yoda laying the smack down on the bad guys.:)
05-02-02, 08:24 PM
"mmmm..... Yoda gonna lay the smack down on your roody poo candy ass. Yes."
Also I always wondered why Yoda never complained in the movies or anything. I mean everyone else gets lightsabers, he gets a stick. Even though we know Yoda could take everyoe single handed.
Take a look at that link I posted above, it should tell you everything you need to know about Yoda kicking arse.
05-03-02, 06:27 AM
I read through the whole thing. Interesting. I was lucky enough to see the guy on the Today Show (it was the only reason I watched it I really hate that show), and he seemed to like the new Anakin Skywalker but his opinion is different there.
We'll just have to wait two more weeks.
05-03-02, 03:00 PM
Sorry, I cant imagine Yoda 'fighting'. I can imagine him using the force to whisk away enemies but to actually see him jumping about and using a lightsaber?? It would be like watching an ewok commanding a Star Destroyer