First Doses of H1N1 flu vaccine shipping

superstring01

10-06-09, 09:36 PM

First shot weakens the immune system so the 2nd shot 3 weeks later can have a "better" effect.

Can you support this, or are people supposed to take your word over--say--a trusted physician?

Dont you think its a bit strange they are making enough doses for 2/3 of the US population with a vaccine where, by your words, the tests are still ongoing? Let us all remember 1976, the last time the government tried to scare us all with a swine flu pandemic. Although I have to admit, 1976's effort is nothing compared to 2009's.

No. I don't find it a bit odd. All it takes is a first year's education in medicine to know that flu experimentation NEVER ENDS. It goes on every year because the virus mutates, thus a new vaccine is developed every 12 months. The process is an old one. This flu vaccine variant is just another flu vaccine variant which is used every year to prevent millions of cases of influenza. Morons who claim that it's a conspiracy are. . . well they are morons. Such a conspiracy would need to include every research physician, diagnostician, microbiologist, virologist (amongst others) in every nation on Earth along with millions of others without a verifiable leak. Nixon couldn't keep Watergate covered up. Bush couldn't keep the Plame affair under wraps, but YEAH, millions of people around the world are all conspiring to keep internet conspiracy theorists up at night. YOU'VE UN-COVERED THEIR INSIDIOUS PLAN!

The flu vaccine works and has prevented the death of many, many people (especially the elderly).

I got the first of thee Hep A&B vaccines last week as well as the "regular" flu vaccine last week. Next week: H1N1. Flu vaccines in the US usually run $10. The years I get it I don't get a cold (not even a mild one). The years where I don't, I usually get a minimum of one cold. The 2 second prick of a needle is well worth saving myself from the agony of a burning throat, stuffed up nose and congested lungs for seven-to-ten days, much less a full-on case of the flu.

~String

EndLightEnd

10-06-09, 09:39 PM

superstring01

10-06-09, 09:43 PM

EndLightEnd

10-06-09, 09:43 PM

No. I don't find it a bit odd. All it takes is a first year's education in medicine to know that flu experimentation NEVER ENDS. It goes on every year because the virus mutates, thus a new vaccine is developed every 12 months. The process is an old one. This flu vaccine variant is just another flu vaccine variant which is used every year to prevent millions of cases of influenza. Morons who claim that it's a conspiracy are. . . well they are morons. Such a conspiracy would need to include every research physician, diagnostician, microbiologist, virologist (amongst others) in every nation on Earth along with millions of others without a verifiable leak. Nixon couldn't keep Watergate covered up. Bush couldn't keep the Plame affair under wraps, but YEAH, millions of people around the world are all conspiring to keep internet conspiracy theorists up at night. YOU'VE UN-COVERED THEIR INSIDIOUS PLAN!

The flu vaccine works and has prevented the death of many, many people (especially the elderly).

I got the first of thee Hep A&B vaccines last week as well as the "regular" flu vaccine last week. Next week: H1N1. Flu vaccines in the US usually run $10. The years I get it I don't get a cold (not even a mild one). The years where I don't, I usually get a minimum of one cold. The 2 second prick of a needle is well worth saving myself from the agony of a burning throat, stuffed up nose and congested lungs for seven-to-ten days, much less a full-on case of the flu.

~String

Just watch where the money goes...no conspiracy about it. Although you did seem to get yourself all worked up about a conspiracy that apparently doesnt exist.

superstring01

10-06-09, 09:47 PM

Just watch where the money goes...no conspiracy about it. Although you did seem to get yourself all worked up about a conspiracy that apparently doesnt exist.

I did? When did that happen? Or, was I just responding to total stupidity.

Duh, though: It's a capitalist enterprise. That's just how it works in a society where big corporations exists. The fact that large corporations make oodles of cash off of this is less a conspiracy than just a crock of shit. See, my doctor makes upwards of $250,000 a year, but it's no conspiracy that he's there when I need him and that I have to pay him $20 up front every time, whilst my insurance company forks out $130 per visit. It may not be pretty, but I prefer it over the lovely needle sharing program that kept so many Romanian babies vaccinated and--oh--infected with AIDS, Hep-C and a host of others.

~String

Repo Man

10-06-09, 09:50 PM

Wow, something new I just came across. Ive never even heard of a nose-spray vaccine before, but apparently the first doses going out are of this variety. The best part is they are a "live-virus" vaccine as opposed to the "dead-virus" injectable vaccines were all used to. You are supposed to avoid people with auto-immune disorders for 21 days for risk of spreading the infection. Aint that something; a vaccine that comes with a 21 day infectious period, classic stuff.

http://www.drugs.com/flumist.html

No, you're supposed to avoid people who have a weak immune system. Auto immune disorders are something else entirely.

Cutsie Marie, the flu may not kill you as an individual (but then again, in spite of your confidence that it won't, it could), but it kills plenty of people every year. So far, the H1N1 hasn't been the disaster that some public health officials feared it might be. But it is a matter of when, not if, the next virus as bad as the 1918 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic) one will roll around again.

The 1918 flu pandemic (commonly referred to as the Spanish Flu) was an influenza pandemic that spread to nearly every part of the world. It was caused by an unusually virulent and deadly influenza A virus strain of subtype H1N1. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify the geographic origin of the virus.[1] Most of its victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened patients. The flu pandemic has also been implicated in the sudden outbreak of encephalitis lethargica in the 1920s.[2]

The pandemic lasted from March 1918 to June 1920,[3] spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. It is estimated that anywhere from 50 to 100 million people were killed worldwide.[4][5][6][7][8] An estimated 500 million people, one third of the world's population (approximately 1.6 billion at the time), became infected.[5]

But it's just the sniffles, right?

superstring01

10-06-09, 10:11 PM

But it's just the sniffles, right?

No. That was a conspiracy too. And if a vaccine exists for the next pandemic, then you should avoid getting it because some big corporation might make just too much money off of it.

~String

nietzschefan

10-06-09, 11:13 PM

Drop the fucking conspiracy talk, it's only a fucking conspiracy if it's a SECRET. It's no secret it's a billion dollar USELESS business.

And I didn't know the first dose was a live virus, that can spread. Maybe there actually IS a conspiracy. Jesus Fuck....

Can you support this, or are people supposed to take your word over--say--a trusted physician?

Yes there is two doses for kids, like I said. I didn't know the first was a mist that is a live virus though...sorry maybe you should ban me?

nietzschefan

10-06-09, 11:24 PM

Fuck me.. the more I read the worse it gets and the more my "instincts" about the "flu shot" are confirmed.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/28/nwt-flu-vaccines.html?ref=rss

Risks of seasonal shot unconfirmed

The seasonal flu vaccine will provide protection from two influenza A strains and one influenza B strain, all related to flu strains reported in Australia, Kandola said.

She added that health officials have not yet confirmed early findings from Canadian researchers that suggest people who get the seasonal flu shot may be twice as likely to get the H1N1 virus. That research has not yet been peer-reviewed or published.

"We haven't had the opportunity to look at that data, because it is unpublished," she said.

"We do know that in the U.S. and the U.K., they have not been able to replicate this data."

EndLightEnd

10-07-09, 08:11 AM

So far, the H1N1 hasn't been the disaster that some public health officials feared it might be. But it is a matter of when, not if, the next virus as bad as the 1918 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic) one will roll around again.

No it sure has not been the disaster they thought it would be, and it wasnt the disaster they thought it would be in 1976 either. Do you see a pattern?

I agree with you its only a matter of time before a pandemic strikes again. Do you really think fear mongering and dosing the entire population with untested vaccines is the answer?

No. That was a conspiracy too. And if a vaccine exists for the next pandemic, then you should avoid getting it because some big corporation might make just too much money off of it.

Im just asking you to question their intentions. I know its tricky when making money is covered up with something as altruistic as preventing infections, but trust me, there is always a hidden agenda with our government/corporations, and neither you nor I know exactly what that is. I do know one thing, money is higher on their list of priorities then human lives, just take a look at our military industrial complex.

I know its hard not to get angry when someone questions your cozy little worldview, but please lets not get into a "your crazy!" shouting match, hm?

superstring01

10-07-09, 08:12 AM

Yes there is two doses for kids, like I said. I didn't know the first was a mist that is a live virus though...sorry maybe you should ban me?

No. It's not a usual habit of yours. I actually found the claim interesting and was looking to dig further into the matter. You know: like provide a like to the information to those who are interested in your claim. Yes it's a "rule" but it's also just polite.

~String

superstring01

10-07-09, 08:20 AM

but trust me,

Nope. Sorry. You're required to earn that trust through proof.

there is always a hidden agenda with our government/corporations,

That may be the case, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In this case, I'm just using Occam's Razor: The simplest answer is the truth. People are dying from this illness, the government feels pressure to act. Not everything is a conspiracy. Not every issue has some Machiavellian agenda.

and neither you nor I know exactly what that is.

So, now you're supposing what I do and do not know. How do you know I'm not part of this "conspiracy"? Maybe I work for the government!

But really. I do know what the motivation is: people die, people get upset. When people get upset they vote officials out of office. Officials in office apply pressure to those corporations and agencies to "do something about it." Simple. No conspiracy theory needed.

I do know one thing, money is higher on their list of priorities then human lives, just take a look at our military industrial complex.

Now you're just babbling. Obviously money is important. Why not just tell me how necessary oxygen is and claim that that is a conspiracy! Money, Endlight, has ALWAYS been more important to those in power than human life.

I'm obviously aware of this fact as evidence by these two posts: here (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2368926&postcount=10) and here (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2368952&postcount=13)

When you have something new to tell, let us know.

~String

superstring01

10-07-09, 08:22 AM

Repo Man

10-07-09, 08:24 AM

No it sure has not been the disaster they thought it would be, and it wasnt the disaster they thought it would be in 1976 either. Do you see a pattern?

I agree with you its only a matter of time before a pandemic strikes again. Do you really think fear mongering and dosing the entire population with untested vaccines is the answer?

What is the alternative? Letting it run it's course? What hidden agenda would you be accusing public health officials of carrying out if they were too slow to react to what turned out to be a deadly strain of flu? When doing too little too late could potentially result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths? And the flu vaccines are not untested.

EndLightEnd

10-07-09, 08:40 AM

That may be the case, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In this case, I'm just using Occam's Razor: The simplest answer is the truth. People are dying from this illness, the government feels pressure to act. Not everything is a conspiracy. Not every issue has some Machiavellian agenda.

I agree. What about the extraordinary claim this particular strain will be worse then any other before it? Wheres the proof for that? Certainly not in the year 1976 when this same tactic was tried already.

So, now you're supposing what I do and do not know. How do you know I'm not part of this "conspiracy"? Maybe I work for the government!

Haha, in a very real way, you are working for the government, free promotion for them.:D

But really. I do know what the motivation is: people die, people get upset. When people get upset they vote officials out of office. Officials in office apply pressure to those corporations and agencies to "do something about it." Simple. No conspiracy theory needed.

Except when they start creating enough doses for 2/3 of the population, something which has never been done before, to combat a strain of virus which is no more deadly than any other.

Now you're just babbling. Obviously money is important. Why not just tell me how necessary oxygen is and claim that that is a conspiracy! Money, Endlight, has ALWAYS been more important to those in power than human life.

Well I have a better idea of where you are coming from when you equate something purely materialistic, like money, to something necessary to life, like oxygen. And apparently you devalue human life as much as anyone else in the top 5%.

What is the alternative? Letting it run it's course? What hidden agenda would you be accusing public health officials of carrying out if they were too slow to react to what turned out to be a deadly strain of flu?

The only thing I would accuse them of then is laziness, maybe lack of organization. Im not saying nothing should be done, Im just saying the sheer magnitude of this particular operation should raise a few eyebrows including yours. And I mean come on, a "live virus" vaccine? Ha! :rolleyes:

Asguard

10-07-09, 09:06 AM

I agree. What about the extraordinary claim this particular strain will be worse then any other before it? Wheres the proof for that? Certainly not in the year 1976 when this same tactic was tried already.

well lets see, its a compleatly new strain rather than a variation of a previous strain and it happens to have the same coding as the most deadly pandemics which suggests there is something about a H1N1 combination which makes it more deadly. Further more during both the initial outbreak and the pandemic not all deaths came from what are typically the vulnerable groups but rather young healthy adults which suggests it at least has the potentual to cause a cytocind storm. Further more there is the fact that there is a currently circulating disease with a very high mortality rate that only needs the ability to cross person to person in order to become a major threat and the H1N1 virus if alowed to cirulate unhindered (because of the fact that only the very elderly have any residual immunity to it) could give Avian flu the means. All that senario requires is one person with H1N1 to get Avian Flu at the same time

Rember the last disease outbreak which came from a compleatly new strain crossed world wide and had a 50% mortality rate (ie SARS)

Repo Man

10-07-09, 09:11 AM

The only thing I would accuse them of then is laziness, maybe lack of organization. Im not saying nothing should be done, Im just saying the sheer magnitude of this particular operation should raise a few eyebrows including yours. And I mean come on, a "live virus" vaccine? Ha! :rolleyes:

What basis do you have for questioning the effectiveness or safety of a live virus vaccine?

The sheer magnitude of the operation is completely justified by the uncertainty present when dealing with infectious disease. Vaccination is the best tool in our public health arsenal for dealing with influenza. It's effectiveness is limited by the fact that you have to be vaccinated prior to being infected. With the lead times involved, they have no choice but to act on the information they have. The ghost of 1918, where a mild flu season in the spring turned into a deadly one in the fall, looms large in the minds of doctors and epidemiologists everywhere. With a flu of that nature, little more could be done now once it was widespread than was done in 1918. The few anti viral drugs we do have are of limited effectiveness, and even shorter supply.

This all reminds me of people who live in a coastal community on the gulf coast refusing to evacuate in the face of an incoming hurricane. "The last two times they said one would hit here, nothing happened. So I don't think anything will happen this time either." Famous last words.

EndLightEnd

10-07-09, 09:15 AM

well lets see, its a compleatly new strain rather than a variation of a previous strain

Completely new eh? Proof please.

it happens to have the same coding as the most deadly pandemics which suggests there is something about a H1N1 combination which makes it more deadly.

That is scary, proof please.

Further more during both the initial outbreak and the pandemic not all deaths came from what are typically the vulnerable groups but rather young healthy adults which suggests it at least has the potentual to cause a cytocind storm.

Proof.

And the media does not count as proof.

EndLightEnd

10-07-09, 09:22 AM

What basis do you have for questioning the effectiveness or safety of a live virus vaccine?

Because to me a vaccine that comes with a risk of spreading infection makes as much sense as depression pills that come with a risk of suicide. Maybe I am crazy afterall. :shrug:

Repo Man

10-07-09, 09:29 AM

Because to me a vaccine that comes with a risk of spreading infection makes as much sense as depression pills that come with a risk of suicide. Maybe I am crazy afterall. :shrug:

The risk of infection from a live virus vaccine is negligible, unless you have a compromised immune system, in which case you shouldn't receive such a vaccine. If you are healthy, any risk associated with such a vaccine is much, much smaller than the health risks associated with being infected by the disease you are being vaccinated against. Worrying excessively about the risk of the vaccine, while downplaying the risk of the flu is known as non-discriminatory risk assessment.

superstring01

10-07-09, 09:38 AM

Haha, in a very real way, you are working for the government, free promotion for them.:D

What promotion? My statement that vaccines work? They save lives? That doctors, on the whole, agree. Let me put it this way, when I need a house built, I look to an architect. When I need my car fixed, I talk to a mechanic. When there's something wrong with my health, I go to my doctor. I know him well, and have known him for years. What motivation would he have for pushing an H1N1 vaccine on himself, his family and friends?

And what cause would there be for me to take the rantings of--usually--poorly educated conspiracy theorists over the PhD, Oxford educated doctor who I have known for years?

Except when they start creating enough doses for 2/3 of the population, something which has never been done before, to combat a strain of virus which is no more deadly than any other.

Supply and demand. They know that roughly 1/3 of the population just won't get the vaccine.

Well I have a better idea of where you are coming from when you equate something purely materialistic, like money, to something necessary to life, like oxygen. And apparently you devalue human life as much as anyone else in the top 5%.

Well, Endlight, you should learn to be more objective, learn to read and learn to comprehend. I did not "equate" anything with oxygen. I used an analogy. It's a standard rhetorical mechanism that does not in anyway equate one object with another. Faux upset over analogies are standard fare in those with little substance to their argument.

The only thing I would accuse them of then is laziness, maybe lack of organization. Im not saying nothing should be done, Im just saying the sheer magnitude of this particular operation should raise a few eyebrows including yours.

Simple answer: people were demanding it. Government fears an upset power-base.

And I mean come on, a "live virus" vaccine? Ha! :rolleyes:

Wait? Were we to take the "Rollyeyes" as proof? So, when you close an argument with a snide statement, what does that prove?

"Live" viruses are standard in nasal vaccines. But if you understood the process you'd know that. A weakened virus is needed when nasal vaccines are used in order to enter past the mucus membranes. If the "live" factor makes you squeamish, then get a dead virus vaccine through injection. It's what I'm doing.

~String

CutsieMarie89

10-07-09, 12:02 PM

No, you're supposed to avoid people who have a weak immune system. Auto immune disorders are something else entirely.

Cutsie Marie, the flu may not kill you as an individual (but then again, in spite of your confidence that it won't, it could), but it kills plenty of people every year. So far, the H1N1 hasn't been the disaster that some public health officials feared it might be. But it is a matter of when, not if, the next virus as bad as the 1918 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic) one will roll around again.

But it's just the sniffles, right?

Well give me the money and I'll go get it. I asked my doctor if it was worth splurging on and that's the response she gave me. I'm not high risk so she said there was no need to push it. Since she didn't and I'm adjusting to a severe cut in income, I don't have the cash for something I most likely won't get.

shorty_37

10-07-09, 12:03 PM

We won't be getting any of these flu shots. I stopped getting them a few yrs ago for myself and the kids. We have been less sick in the yrs we didn't receive the shots then when we did get them. The kids get colds here and there but not the flu. They actually got the flu and so did I in the yrs we had the shots.

As time went on and I heard more and more controversy over them, I decided we were just going to stop and see what happened. So far it proved to be a good thing rather then bad.

Well give me the money and I'll go get it.

It's free in Canada, you can go to your Dr or the walk in clinics hold flu shot dates where you just walk in and get it. I am curious, how much does it cost to get where you are?

Asguard

10-07-09, 09:48 PM

i was going to say the same as shorty. In Australia some vacines have a pt cost and some dont. For instance the Hep A+B vacine will cost me $50 when i get it. The H1N1 vaccine on the other hand is free to everyone, the goverment bought enough doses to cover the entire population and any thats left over will be going to the south asian islands which need it once Australia is covered.

I mean for christ sake, are you conspiracy nuts stupid? The VERY first people to recive the vacine were the health care workers. You think they would accept it if they didnt think it was safe????????

nietzschefan

10-07-09, 10:39 PM

They don't know the effects of all this immunization in the long term (20+ years we gonna see more super flu bugs that our immune systems can't take on every time?).

How in the fuck did we survive for 100000+ years without the flu shot?

It's a useless yearly scam to fill some pockets.

And they are rushing this swine flu vaccine without proper testing imo.

Repo Man

10-07-09, 11:07 PM

They don't know the effects of all this immunization in the long term (20+ years we gonna see more super flu bugs that our immune systems can't take on every time?).

Well, we certainly know the effects of the flu now.

How in the fuck did we survive for 100000+ years without the flu shot?
Lots of people died. Just as lots of people died from bacterial diseases prior to the discovery of antibiotics. The use of antibiotics leads to the natural selection of resistant strains of bacteria. This is a proven fact, not baseless speculation as the same sort of thinking would be with viruses. Will you now eschew the use of antibiotics?

It's a useless yearly scam to fill some pockets.

And they are rushing this swine flu vaccine without proper testing imo.

It's the same vaccine as last years (and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that), but with a different viral protein.

Influenza is a serious illness. It kills some, and makes many others very ill. It is the job of public health officials to prevent this to the best of their abilities. It is not a scam.

nietzschefan

10-07-09, 11:27 PM

You are comparing treating infections which can kill 100% condition athletes to treating a case of shits and pukes for 24 hrs that 99% of people have no real issue with. It's not a serious illness. When you are 94 ok go get the flu shot ...when you a sickly kid go ahead....not everyone. Let the usual %1 weak selection prone to complications get the shot, I got not problem with that. Getting "everyone" immunized every year is going to be a big problem someday.

Also they hand out antibiotics wayyy to quickly nowadays for similar monetary reasons, don't get me started on that shit...

PsychoTropicPuppy

10-08-09, 10:51 AM

*Ehem* How many people died from the Swine flu just in the USA so far? And how many people died from the normal flu so far, just in the USA?

And actually, conspiracy theories about the pharmaceutical industry are very entertaining, and interesting.

Ever heard of the *cough* interesting -err conpiracy *cough* theory about HIV having been transferred iatrogenically, i.e. via polio vaccination (Chat)? (If we grow our vaccines on primates' kidneys...I mean the general accepted theory about HIV's origins is that it's a descendant of a Simian immunodeficiency virus..) *cough*

Me likey likey.

Grim_Reaper

10-08-09, 11:57 AM

Getting the flue shot dont make you any healthier it is the Governamnets way of tracking people. Allong with the so called Vaccine they inject radio active material and they use that material to track you from space. Now there is a theroy.....

CutsieMarie89

10-08-09, 12:58 PM

It's free in Canada, you can go to your Dr or the walk in clinics hold flu shot dates where you just walk in and get it. I am curious, how much does it cost to get where you are?

It's going to be free if you're insured by a major insurance company because at least the state government is pushing that, but... I don't have a major health insurance provider, so I have to pay. They don't know how much yet. But if it's more than $5, (which all I can spare on this) I won't be getting it. It's free for everyone at the health clinic, but then you have to spend hours at the health clinic, where you walk out with more diseases than you came in with (I used to work there, it's terrible). And now that I don't work with children/infants anymore, I'm not required to get it.

superstring01

10-09-09, 04:15 PM

How in the fuck did we survive for 100000+ years without the flu shot?

"We" as as species did. We also survived without running water and electricity. We also survived for thousands of years of child abuse, misogyny and imposed slavery. That we survived at all is wonderful, but the fact is: Millions of people who now live, would not have, were it not for vaccines. You may well be one of them.

The point isn't about looking at the species as a whole, because if we did things for just cold, calculating reasons, we'd do a lot of nasty things to ourselves. The point is to look at the individual human effect of vaccinations, the effects of which have been studied for the 60-or-so years humans have been getting them en masse with little proof of serious social and individual complications. The net result has always been: Better life, longer life.

Just ask the millions of Baby Boomers who were never touched by Polio through which their very own parents suffered desperately either by direct affliction or through observation.

And they are rushing this swine flu vaccine without proper testing imo.

H1N1 is a flu variant. Every year hundreds of flu vaccines are rushed into production because nobody knows, until a few months before the "cold season" which flu virus will be needed. Companies and governments produce many of them and then they are narrowed down to a select few. The H1N1 virus is nearly identical to all other flu viruses. The only reason it's "more deadly" is because of a slightly different protein coating that surrounds it. This protein coating shifts in all flu viruses from year to year. In the case of H1N1 it shifted in such a way that some people had less resistance to. It didn't grow claws. It didn't grow eyes. It didn't "learn" to kill better. It is doing what it's always doing, merely with a different set of clothes. In this case, the clothing is just different enough to allow it to slip past certain parts of the immune system more easily. That's why some people, and not others, die from it so quickly.

"Testing" and "retesting" is stupid. It's the exact same type of virus as any other strain and the same virus that's been giving people the sniffles for millions of years. Nothing more needs to be done because all they have to do is kill some of the virus, dilute it in a saline solution and inject it into your body so that your immune system and sensitize itself to the protein coating and produce an affective anti-body.

Every day, trillions upon trillions of viruses enter your body. Your body adjusts by producing trillions upon trillions of new and repeated antibodies. Being vaccinated is just another way of producing antibodies. Claiming that vaccines might have an odd effect is indicative of someone who has zero clue of how the immune system works in relation to viruses. You will develop antibodies to all of these diseases eventually--no matter what--it's just that in many cases you won't develop them unharmed by the disease or you may actually die in the process. Vaccines allow you to do what your body already wants to do, but it does it without giving you the actual infection. Nothing more. Nothing nefarious.

In one case, we don't vaccinate and people die and get maimed. In other cases, we vaccinate and run the infinitesimal risk that some people might have some odd side effects. I'll take the second option. If you prefer the first, then I suggest testing out how it feels to have Polio. You'd quickly regret having never chosen the second option from the beginning.

Getting "everyone" immunized every year is going to be a big problem someday.

Based upon what? A random guess? A hunch? I get that you believe that, but on some level that opinion has to be based on something you've learned, somewhere! How is it going to be a big problem? How is giving people immunities to diseases going to create issues down the line? It's not like the disease knows people are immune to it, and it's not like being immune to diseases causes them to mutate just to piss off people with immunities.

So, how pray tell will it be a "big problem" one day?

Also they hand out antibiotics wayyy to quickly nowadays for similar monetary reasons, don't get me started on that shit...

Unrelated.

Vaccines are for viruses. Antibiotics treat bacterial, fungal, microbial infections. The two are unconnected, so why bring it up, except to somehow validate your claims about vaccines. While you are right, over-treatment with antibiotics does cause problems, it is impossible--scientifically--to link the treatment of a disease caused by one life-form to the treatment of a dieseas from a totally different life-form. In one case, you have a chemical compound (antibiotics) which are used to kill off a type of disease AFTER infection; and on the other, you have actual dead or weakened viruses which are used to teach the body to produce protein antibodies (which stick to the viruses protein coating) on its own before an infection ever happens.

~String

Asguard

10-09-09, 11:40 PM

um string your right that antibotics have no effect on viruses, they only work on bacteria (not fungal infections BTW, thats antifungal medication). However there ARE vacines for SOME bacterial infections, meningococcal is one example

superstring01

10-10-09, 05:00 AM

Enmos

10-10-09, 05:33 AM

How in the fuck did we survive for 100000+ years without the flu shot?

So in other words, were do these epidemics come from?
Well first off, there always were epidemics and people may have died en masse. But they would have been local. Nowadays, people travel the world and a global epidemic is not so far-fetched. Especially since we live so closely packed.
Secondly, a lot of viruses seem to originate from the jungles where they didn't have any contact with humans and they and their hosts have evolved a non-lethal relationship. Humans are invading more and more previously undisturbed areas.

EndLightEnd

10-17-09, 10:46 AM

christa

10-17-09, 11:04 AM

well from what i have heard about H1N1, is that you are a at a higher risk of death if you have underlying immune problems. If you are a healthy person in the first place, your chance of death is like 10%.. Also, symptoms of H1N1 are mirror of the flu. except you get the runs on top of it all..

If i can remember right, when you are sick, you are advised to drink ALOT of fluids to keep you hydrated.. and if you dont, you could die... umm... this H1N1 is just like the flu.. both have a risk of death if you do not take care of yourself.

Ive had 1 flu shot in my life, and i went from feeling great, to 2months of feeling like crap. and I dont really think my daughter has ever had a flu shot....

PsychoTropicPuppy

10-17-09, 11:29 AM

Shocking side effect of this years flu shot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3JEVIblok0&feature=player_embedded#

At one point the new anchor says despite the flu vaccine, she still got the flu. Plus a whole host of debilitating symptoms that have changed her life forever. This is not the first, or last, time this happens.

Lol, in my country the doc chamber actually doesn't support the flu vaccine. They say that it's way too dangerous as it's not been properly tested, and therefore they are not supportive of it. Docs themselves don't want to get this vaccine shot either, so...I think that says enough about the situation, and the chances of becoming an other Desiree Jennings are just way too high.

superstring01

10-17-09, 12:27 PM

Lol, in my country the doc chamber actually doesn't support the flu vaccine. They say that it's way too dangerous as it's not been properly tested, and therefore they are not supportive of it. Docs themselves don't want to get this vaccine shot either, so...I think that says enough about the situation, and the chances of becoming an other Desiree Jennings are just way too high.

What country are you from? I'd be interested in seeing/reading something from that chamber of doctors.

~String

PsychoTropicPuppy

10-17-09, 01:01 PM

What country are you from? I'd be interested in seeing/reading something from that chamber of doctors.

~String

Well, it's hard to come by, especially in English.

But here is a forum discussing the article of today about said topic, and they give a pretty nice English explanation about the article's subject.
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=138473.0

christa

10-17-09, 01:05 PM

it probly doesnt help that in our state we have yet to even receive the vaccine, and they say that 10 people have already died from it.. hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

i knew i lived in the crappy state! we are low on all the good "statistics" but rank high on the bad ones!

nietzschefan

10-17-09, 02:24 PM

So in other words, were do these epidemics come from?
Well first off, there always were epidemics and people may have died en masse. But they would have been local. Nowadays, people travel the world and a global epidemic is not so far-fetched. Especially since we live so closely packed.
Secondly, a lot of viruses seem to originate from the jungles where they didn't have any contact with humans and they and their hosts have evolved a non-lethal relationship. Humans are invading more and more previously undisturbed areas.

While that's true Enmos, I really doubt any primitive clans were wiped out by a flu virus.

Repo Man

10-17-09, 11:11 PM

superstring01

10-18-09, 09:05 PM

While that's true Enmos, I really doubt any primitive clans were wiped out by a flu virus.

There's more to existence than just "survival of the tribe". Parents with children who die from random diseases, like the flu don't, mourn less just because the species survives.

~String

nietzschefan

10-18-09, 11:05 PM

There's more to existence than just "survival of the tribe". Parents with children who die from random diseases, like the flu don't, mourn less just because the species survives.

~String

Well I'm going to put my faith in my fine Genetics than the hands of a lab rat and a petri dish.

WillNever

10-18-09, 11:29 PM

I've never gotten a flu shot, and it hasn't made me less healthy.

These people need to take a daily vitamin

Vaccines are placebos, i don't believe they really have any real use but to make money from fear.

It's use is to save the lives of pediatric patients, elderly, and the immunocompromised. Us being healthy, non-elderly adults are not at risk, which is why flu vaccines aren't recommended for everyone.

It's called being cognizant of medical science. I know this is harder for those of you not working in a hospital on a daily basis, but please do smarten up.

superstring01

10-19-09, 02:17 AM

Well I'm going to put my faith in my fine Genetics than the hands of a lab rat and a petri dish.

Do you have children?

That question aside, I am curious, are you opposed to the Flu vaccine? The H1N1 vaccine? Vaccines in general?

~String

PsychoTropicPuppy

10-19-09, 04:16 AM

Czech physicans, in droves, deny the swine flu vaccination. They fear that they are not in possession of enough information concerning the effects of said vaccination. Around 160 thousand medics are supposed to receive said vaccination.
The hygienics are trying to disperse their doubts.

"I'm not willing to get a shot, " said a children's physician from Prague named Soňa Kn�blov�. She hinted on the unverified state of said vaccination. "I'll be honest, I will not use the possibility of a vaccination, " said one of her colleages, Petr Němeček.

In accordance with the executive headmistress of the pacient's organisation "Koalice pro zdravi" (trans. Coalition for health) Jana Petrenko, such a stance of the physicians could represent a danger for the patients. "When, for example, a physician gets infected with the swine flu, and he doesn't notice it immediately, then chances are that he'll infect quite a number of his patients, " cited her Lidove noviny.

This is also alarming for the ministry of health. "Physicians should realise, that they are responsible for their patients, and that this vaccination would mainly protect the patients. An ill medic could due to the close contact with the patients become a source of contamination, and like this disperse the pandemic flu virus even further, " warned the ministry.

The ministry is trying to confront the doubts of the workers in the medical field. They want to persuade them in various seminaries. For example, during the weekend, at a nationwide meeting of the medic coalition they're planning to deal with the dilemma.

The hygienics claim that the doubts of the doctors are unfounded. The hygienics rely on the notions of the World Health Organisation that the vaccines are just as safe as those meant for the seasonal(regular) flu. Around 7% of the populace receive a shot against the regular flu on a yearly basis, and after chief hygienic Michael Vita only 27 side-effects were reported last year.

But for the time being the resistance is quite strong. "In the contract with the Czech government the makers of the vaccination refuse to take accountability for the unwanted side-effects of the product. That is alerting. If the makers were sure of the product's safety then why do the include such a thing in the contract? (...) Nobody wants to be in the position of a test subject," said the president of the Czech medical chamber Milan Kubek.

As I've checked on my source again, I had to admit that the linked page wasn't too clear about the article, and more filled with opinions, so I've made a personal primitive 5 min. translation of the following article myself: http://zpravy.idnes.cz/bojime-se-odmitaji-cesti-lekari-vakcinu-proti-praseci-chripce-puj-/domaci.asp?c=A091002_110113_domaci_jw

And honestly, I understand the doctors doubts, and fears concerning this product. If something goes wrong the makers of the product will not be held accountable. This is a definitive hint that the product is still just in testing phase.

Doreen

10-19-09, 10:56 AM

It's use is to save the lives of pediatric patients, elderly, and the immunocompromised. Us being healthy, non-elderly adults are not at risk, which is why flu vaccines aren't recommended for everyone.

It's called being cognizant of medical science. I know this is harder for those of you not working in a hospital on a daily basis, but please do smarten up.
Actually 'healthy' people are being encouraged and in some cases pressured to take the vaccine, despite things like

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10640454

which indicates that one of the adjuvants, squalene, in the vaccine may cause severe immune system problems down the line.

The German military and government has decided to use a clean vaccine
http://www.fightbackh1n1.com/2009/10/german-soldiers-to-receive-different.html

and it might be wise for people to question why they must take one filled with additives, many of which are problematic. When the vaccines were tested for safety, THEY WERE TESTED WITHOUT the various questionable additives. Further, since the effects of these additives can be long term rather than short term, the testing procedures - quick and sloppy - were not remotely adequate.

Another thing people should know is that the suppliers of these vaccines are facing a wide variety of criminal charges throughout the world: fraud, withholding of evidence that their products were damaging, illegal experiments on children, experiments on the homeless in Poland resulting in deaths, tax evasion, and more. Further Baxter Ltd. one of these companies supplied the Czech Republic with a vaccine that contained

both live virus AND live season flu virus...

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

which would, obviously, have spread the disease incredibly rapidly. At the very least this was incredible incompetence. Nevertheless this company continued to get contracts and is supply vaccines to millions and millions of people.

Large doses of vitamin D do just as well if not better than flu vaccines, without any of the short term and long term side effects.

John99

10-19-09, 12:13 PM

arge doses of vitamin D do just as well

whats that?

oh, vitamin d...never heard of that.:rolleyes:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2009-mchi/5417.html

nietzschefan

10-19-09, 05:49 PM

Do you have children?

That question aside, I am curious, are you opposed to the Flu vaccine? The H1N1 vaccine? Vaccines in general?

~String

No kids, but I do have a healthy (relatively) immune system.

I'm opposed to the flu vaccines, because it it in the hands of increasingly under trained, health professionals and developed and cultivated by corporations I do not trust one bit. It goes against my #1 creedo, a well known one. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

superstring01

10-19-09, 06:07 PM

But no issues with other vaccines?

Well, you're not alone. A good chunk of the population avoids flu vaccines for the same reason. They just don't think it's needed.

~String

John99

10-19-09, 07:42 PM

No kids, but I do have a healthy (relatively) immune system.

I'm opposed to the flu vaccines, because it it in the hands of increasingly under trained, health professionals and developed and cultivated by corporations I do not trust one bit. It goes against my #1 creedo, a well known one. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

if you really think about it, unemotionally and rationally and without an agenda. then how can a flu vaccine hurt a human?

i have never had a flu shot, not sure why.

Orleander

10-23-09, 10:57 AM

CutsieMarie89

10-23-09, 12:01 PM

I wish more of the vaccines would get here. Area schools have been closed for a week (including my daughter's) due to illness.
On Monday my daughter walked into her 1st period science class which normally has 28 students, to see that she was one of 7. They canceled the rest of the week and have a cleaning service in.
One by one, area schools started closing, even area colleges.

Is it really that bad or just overreacting?

I live in one of the largest cities in the world and not a single thing has been closed down. I'm sitting in school right now. Some people are sick, but with nothing serious, just colds and the like. I wish they'd close school.

nietzschefan

10-23-09, 05:11 PM

if you really think about it, unemotionally and rationally and without an agenda. then how can a flu vaccine hurt a human?

i have never had a flu shot, not sure why.

http://a11news.com/2477/h1n1-flu-shot-cripples-cheerleader/

CheskiChips

10-25-09, 12:27 PM

http://a11news.com/2477/h1n1-flu-shot-cripples-cheerleader/

It's not a result of the H1N1 vaccine.

http://www.examiner.com/x-13791-Baltimore-Disease-Prevention-Examiner~y2009m10d16-Woman-claiming-she-acquired-dystonia-from-a-flu-shot-may-have-it-all-in-her-head

nietzschefan

10-25-09, 01:56 PM

I didn't say it was. It's a one in a million chance with the flu shot (Congratulations!!), however since they have absolutely no idea why it happens there is no reason to believe it won't happen with with the H1N1 flu shot(which is really just another strain).

I play the lottery for MONEY about twice a year, not for Dystonia!

I'll pass on the flu shot thanks. I'm healthy. Unhealthy people can go ahead and get the flu shot if the flu would endanger their life, that makes sense. Everyone getting the flu shot is fucking stupid.

Repo Man

10-25-09, 05:39 PM

nietzschefan

10-25-09, 05:55 PM

You're still playing the lottery. There are only two ways to become immune to the H1N1 flu - having the actual flu, or having the vaccine. Having the flu entails risk; it can be a serious illness, even in young people who were perfectly healthy prior to being infected. Even if you are perfectly healthy, the chances for serious complications from the flu are statistically much greater than the chances of complications from the flu vaccine. You could be lucky, and completely avoid being infected. But the news reports are confirming that the H1N1 is more virulent than most seasonal influenza, which means the odds of avoiding it completely aren't in your favor.

It's interesting that you have such faith in your immune system's ability to either prevent you from contracting the flu in the first place, or to keep it down to the level of a trivial sickness of no consequence, but feel at the same time that your immune system could be destroyed by the H1N1 vaccine.

It's got nothing to do with all of that really, I'm philosophically opposed to a dependence on drug companies from year to year (they'd like us to be on two shots year to year now...CHACHING!)

Also if you read the articles on that story, she ALSO got the flu virus. It happens more often then you'll ever see anyone with their hand in this money scheme admit. You get the flu shot and STILL get it. Waste of time, resources and possibly, health.

Orleander

10-25-09, 05:57 PM

You're still playing the lottery. ...

considering I have never won the lottery, I guess my chances of getting H1N1 are slim as well. I have even slimmer chances of dying from it.

CheskiChips

10-25-09, 06:46 PM

Repo Man

10-25-09, 07:06 PM

It's got nothing to do with all of that really, I'm philosophically opposed to a dependence on drug companies from year to year (they'd like us to be on two shots year to year now...CHACHING!)

Also if you read the articles on that story, she ALSO got the flu virus. It happens more often then you'll ever see anyone with their hand in this money scheme admit. You get the flu shot and STILL get it. Waste of time, resources and possibly, health.

That is common knowledge, and no one makes any effort to deny it.

It is possible to get vaccinated and still get influenza. The vaccine is reformulated each season for a few specific flu strains but cannot possibly include all the strains actively infecting people in the world for that season. It takes about six months for the manufacturers to formulate and produce the millions of doses required to deal with the seasonal epidemics; occasionally, a new or overlooked strain becomes prominent during that time and infects people although they have been vaccinated (as by the H3N2 Fujian flu in the 2003�2004 flu season).[79] It is also possible to get infected just before vaccination and get sick with the very strain that the vaccine is supposed to prevent, as the vaccine takes about two weeks to become effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

Of course, the post hoc fallacy rules with that one. Message boards are full of anecdotes of people who got the flu vaccine, and then developed the flu anyway, and are now irrevocably convinced that the vaccination was responsible. "Some people, if they don't already know something, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi Berra

Sometimes people who make an effort to practice safe sex still become infected with HIV; does that make (for one example) condom usage a waste of time? In spite of seatbelts and other safety devices, people still die in auto accidents; does this mean that seatbelts and air bags are a waste of time and money?

Repo Man

10-25-09, 07:08 PM

considering I have never won the lottery, I guess my chances of getting H1N1 are slim as well. I have even slimmer chances of dying from it.

Life is full of lotteries that you do not want to win.

nietzschefan

10-25-09, 08:32 PM

Repo Man

10-25-09, 08:51 PM

Oooh now we are comparing to HIV.

Listen, they make an HIV Vaccine, I'll take it. Until then(and beyond for that matter), I won't fuck men or slutty bitches. Heck I actually practice an ancient custom of fucking one woman that I trust, to not be fucking people fresh off the boat from Africa or wherever.

So with the flu, which I have gotten ONCE in like 10 years (Yes the year I did try the flu shot - 2004), what I do is avoid people who have it, wash my hands and work out with gloves on. When I am sick I stay the fuck home. Anyone who fires you for staying home with the flu or having your kids stay home is not worth working for under any circumstances.

And yes we are ALL likely to eventually get H1N1, regardless of the flu shot for it or not. If not this year...then next year's strain or the next until it can no longer affect us because a large % of the population has an IMMUNE SYSTEM THAT CAN FIGHT IT OFF.

(Vaccine as in the disease is GONE...like say the polio vaccine, the flu "vaccine" is not really a vaccine IMO)

No, I'm not comparing it to HIV. I'm talking about a risk/benefit analysis. That's why I also made the comparison of auto safety devices. You seem to be holding the flu vaccine to an unrealistically strict standard of acceptable risk, while downplaying the risk of actually being infected with the flu. You said that people sometimes still get infected with the flu after having received the vaccination, as though this proves it is useless. My point was that safety precautions are rarely 100% effective, and that in spite of taking sensible precautions against HIV, people still get infected - does that mean these precautions are useless?

The capability of fighting off the flu doesn't mean all that much. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Complications such as secondary infections like sinusitis, bronchitis and even pneumonia are not uncommon, even with healthy people. "That which does not kill you, makes you stronger" doesn't apply here.

nietzschefan

10-25-09, 09:40 PM

Ahhh the Risk/benefit analysis, Seatbelts...an apt comparison, we see the not-so-invisible hand of corporate America behind this increasing imposing flu shot business and of course health insurance companies will soon demand insurers HAVE that flu shot. Less risk, less cost, perhaps even profit for the corporate machine. The cogs in the machine(you) stay at work more, cost less in maintenance/repairs per unit of production and well frankly lose a little more of their freedom. Oh well, we have a more efficient machine.

You know why they don't know why these side effects happen with the flu shot...there's no money in it. No one involved with the flu shot, gives a fuck about your health really.

CheskiChips

10-25-09, 09:57 PM

nietzschefan

10-25-09, 10:02 PM

Paranoia is a bigger risk than the flu, you've come down with that one...why didn't you take the necessary precautions? Such as read a book, talk to your doctor, listen to non-partisan people on the issue. If you ask them...most say it's a good investment...especially if you're at high risk.

Thought you had me on ignore...

CheskiChips

10-25-09, 10:22 PM

I click view when responses don't make sense.

nietzschefan

10-25-09, 10:32 PM

Whatever Pal you directly replied my cheerleader turned-invalid story.

BTW it was Guillain–Barr� syndrome that probably affected her. Not sure who told her it was Dystonia...whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome

GGBS may be a rare side-effect of influenza vaccines, with an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations.[10] Other estimates suggest the incidence of GBS among those receiving the vaccine was one case per 105,000 and that the GBS was not directly due to the vaccine but to a bacterial contamination of the vaccine that triggered GBS.[11]

There were reports of GBS affecting some people who had received swine flu immunizations in the 1976 U.S. outbreak of swine flu. Overall, there were about 500 cases of GBS—25 of which resulted in death from severe pulmonary complications— which, according to Dr. P. Haber, were probably caused by an immunopathological reaction to the 1976 swine flu vaccine. Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to GBS, though caution is advised for certain individuals, particularly those with a history of GBS.[12][13]

I'm just hoping they be honest about the number affected this time...There have been several reported in Canada to the regular flu shot.

The Esotericist

10-26-09, 05:46 AM

I agree with nietzschefan, it is a complicated ploy by the military, government, corporate elites to accomplish several things simultaneously.

First, they wish to make money. Their second aim is population reduction. Some of these links you will need to use a translator like google translate, as this information was only available in Czech. I wouldn't trust Baxter International with my life, that is for sure. And as for Novartis? Hell, their connections with the political elites run far, wide and deep. The naivite', and just plan lack of research into these issues, is, well, stunning.

Peoples willingness to trust the "authorities," whether they be medical, political, or corporate, is galling. The media can't be trusted. You need to do a little research, and never assume anything.

I thank EndLightEnd for raising awareness of this timely topic and trying to help humanity. For those seeking the truth, I provide the following links.
Welcome to vaccination education! (http://www.vaccinationeducation.com/)

An american pharma Baxter vaccine against flu found contaminated by H5N1 virus in several European countries (http://www.911blogger.com/node/19517)

In the Czech Republic got the vaccine infected deadly bird flu virus (http://zpravy.idnes.cz/unik-viru-je-obchodni-tajemstvi-odmita-firma-komentovat-unik-smrtelne-vakciny-19i-/domaci.asp?c=A090217_224441_domaci_anv)

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rakouska-ptaci-chripka-sla-do-ceska-i-nemecka-fmn-/domaci.asp?c=A090303_214331_domaci_abr

http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/zpravy/kontaminovana-vakcina-se-testovala-nejen-v-cr/363674

Inventory Uncovers 9,200 More Pathogens
Laboratory Says Security Is Tighter, but Earlier Count Missed Dangerous Vials (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061703271.html)

Novartis wants Chiron
$4.5 billion bid for biotech firm (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/02/BUGULEGTV61.DTL&type=business)

September 20, 1991
INITIATIVE FOR ECO-92 EARTH CHARTER (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/cobden_club.htm)

Baxter To Develop Swine Flu Vaccine Despite Bird Flu Scandal (http://www.prisonplanet.com/baxter-to-develop-swine-flu-vaccine-despite-bird-flu-scandal.html)

CLICIK HERE FOR SWINE FLU ODDITIES
http://www.legitgov.org/graphics/logosmalr.gif (http://www.legitgov.org/flu_oddities.html)

I found this to be a VERY informative page. I have agonized over the decision to get a vaccination for a while. I have a seven year old I love very much, and this is a very serious issue. I don't want MY paranoia of the whole system to affect his life. I just want to be safe. Am I imagininging things?

But you know, in the end, I guess it all comes down to, what do the elites know? What are they doing? You know?

If this isn't something THEY wouldn't put into THEIR children, and into themselves? Why the hell would I want it in me?

October 8, 2009
First Daughters Not Vaccinated Against H1N1

President Obama's school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.

The Centers for Disease Control recommend that children ages 6 months through 18 years of age receive a vaccination against the H1N1 flu virus. At this time only children with chronic medical conditions are receiving the vaccination because their immune system is not strong enough to fight off the strain. The CDC also says a regular seasonal flu shot does not protect against the virus.
http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/10/08/first-daughters-not-vaccinated-against-h1n1/

nietzschefan

10-26-09, 03:33 PM

I agree with nietzschefan, it is a complicated ploy by the military, government, corporate elites to accomplish several things simultaneously.

First, they wish to make money.

You can stop there when agreeing with me. The rest is bullshit.

CheskiChips

10-26-09, 04:31 PM

I agree with nietzschefan, it is a complicated ploy by the military, government, corporate elites to accomplish several things simultaneously.

First, they wish to make money. Their second aim is population reduction. Some of these links you will need to use a translator like google translate, as this information was only available in Czech. I wouldn't trust Baxter International with my life, that is for sure. And as for Novartis? Hell, their connections with the political elites run far, wide and deep. The naivite', and just plan lack of research into these issues, is, well, stunning.

Peoples willingness to trust the "authorities," whether they be medical, political, or corporate, is galling. The media can't be trusted. You need to do a little research, and never assume anything.

I thank EndLightEnd for raising awareness of this timely topic and trying to help humanity. For those seeking the truth, I provide the following links.
Welcome to vaccination education! (http://www.vaccinationeducation.com/)

An american pharma Baxter vaccine against flu found contaminated by H5N1 virus in several European countries (http://www.911blogger.com/node/19517)

In the Czech Republic got the vaccine infected deadly bird flu virus (http://zpravy.idnes.cz/unik-viru-je-obchodni-tajemstvi-odmita-firma-komentovat-unik-smrtelne-vakciny-19i-/domaci.asp?c=A090217_224441_domaci_anv)

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rakouska-ptaci-chripka-sla-do-ceska-i-nemecka-fmn-/domaci.asp?c=A090303_214331_domaci_abr

http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/zpravy/kontaminovana-vakcina-se-testovala-nejen-v-cr/363674

Inventory Uncovers 9,200 More Pathogens
Laboratory Says Security Is Tighter, but Earlier Count Missed Dangerous Vials (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061703271.html)

Novartis wants Chiron
$4.5 billion bid for biotech firm (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/02/BUGULEGTV61.DTL&type=business)

September 20, 1991
INITIATIVE FOR ECO-92 EARTH CHARTER (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/cobden_club.htm)

Baxter To Develop Swine Flu Vaccine Despite Bird Flu Scandal (http://www.prisonplanet.com/baxter-to-develop-swine-flu-vaccine-despite-bird-flu-scandal.html)

CLICIK HERE FOR SWINE FLU ODDITIES
http://www.legitgov.org/graphics/logosmalr.gif (http://www.legitgov.org/flu_oddities.html)

I found this to be a VERY informative page. I have agonized over the decision to get a vaccination for a while. I have a seven year old I love very much, and this is a very serious issue. I don't want MY paranoia of the whole system to affect his life. I just want to be safe. Am I imagininging things?

But you know, in the end, I guess it all comes down to, what do the elites know? What are they doing? You know?

If this isn't something THEY wouldn't put into THEIR children, and into themselves? Why the hell would I want it in me?

http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/10/08/first-daughters-not-vaccinated-against-h1n1/

Well, if Darwin's correct my great^6 grand children might not have to deal with people like you.

EndLightEnd

10-26-09, 06:35 PM

This thread just took a direction different then intended.

In recent news, swine flu got declared a national emergency by Obama, providing some interesting caveats.

CheskiChips

10-27-09, 03:34 AM

This thread just took a direction different then intended.

In recent news, swine flu got declared a national emergency by Obama, providing some interesting caveats.

I don't have a TV and I haven't been reading the Newspaper. What the general attitude? Has something major happened, what's led to this declaration?

EndLightEnd

10-27-09, 08:11 AM

I don't have a TV and I haven't been reading the Newspaper. What the general attitude? Has something major happened, what's led to this declaration?

You know, Im not really sure, it just kinda happened. I havent been able to find a good reason for it. If anyone does, please post.

Orleander

10-27-09, 10:29 AM

You know, Im not really sure, it just kinda happened. I havent been able to find a good reason for it. If anyone does, please post.

It cuts down on paperwork needing to be done if a hospital get slammed with cases and has to transfer people.
It also makes it easier to set up off-site centers for vaccinations.

PsychoTropicPuppy

10-27-09, 12:01 PM

Yes yes..it's called "unnecessarily causing panic"

Ah..life.

Repo Man

11-14-09, 11:29 AM

Desiree Jennings is better now, thanks to being treated by a quack. (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/11/desiree_jennings_cured.php?utm_source=selectfeed&utm_medium=rss)

If Jennings really had dystonia or any biological brain injury from toxicity, removing the toxin might prevent further progression and allow the slow process of recovery to begin. But brain damage does not immediately reverse itself once the cause is removed. It is possible for dystonia to be a side effect of certain medications, and it can immediately resolve once that medication is stopped or reversed. But in that situation we are dealing with an effect of an active blood level of a pharmaceutical agent - something which is inherently reversible. We are not dealing with damage or injury........

......However, now Jennings herself, and Dr. Buttar, report that Jennings began to improve while still sitting in the chair and receiving her chelation therapy, and within 36 hours her symptoms were completely gone. First, let me say that I am very happy Ms. Jennings' symptoms have resolved. Hopefully now she can just go on with her life. But to me, this impossibly rapid recovery is a dramatic confirmation that her symptoms were psychogenic to begin with. It is simply implausible that brain injury from mercury toxicity could be reversed so quickly - especially when you consider that Dr. Buttar had Jennings at death's door.