Hello,

I will be posting some facts here, you're free to make your mind about. All facts can be found at site: Science and Mathematics in the Holy Quran.

Here I will present some scientific wonders related to human chromosome number and the distribution of the word "Human" in the Quran. Humans have 46 chromosomes arranged in 23 pairs. This number was discovered in 1955. Before proceeding I would like to clarify a distinction between two main types of numbers: Prime numbers: are natural numbers (1,2,3,4,5..) that are divisible only by themselves and one. The first few primes are 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13.. and Composite numbers: are natural numbers (1,2,3,4,5..) that are divisible by other numbers than themselves and one. The first few composite numbers are 4, 6, 8, 9, 10.. Now to the facts:

- The word "Human" appears in all forms (definite & indefinite) 65 times in the Quran. Interestingly 65 is the 46th composite number in universe. Humans have 46 chromosomes.

- Chapter 76 of the Quran is named "Human". This chapter has 31 verses and it's the 31st chapter from the beginning of the Quran that the word "Human" appears at. Interstingly the 31st composite number in universe is number 46.

- The sum of chapters' numbers of the chapters that the word "Human" appears at up to chapter 76 "Human" is 961. This number is equal to 31 x 31.

- Chapter 46 of the Holy Quran is named "The Dunes". This chapter is of interest because it has the number equal to human chromosome number. The interesting facts are that the number of chapters with the word "Human" appearing in them up to chapter 46 "The Dunes" is 23. This is equal to the number of human chromosome pairs (called haploid chromosome number). The number of chapters with the word "Human" appearing in them after chapter 46 "The Dunes" is 19. This number is key miracle number in the Quran. In other words, chapter 46 "The Dunes" is placed between the two key miracle numbers 23 & 19.

- At the same time we find that there are 31 verses with the word "Human" appearing in them up to chapter 46 "The Dunes" and 31 such verses appear after this chapter. Again human chromosome number (46) is the 31st composite number in universe.

- The verse where the word "Human" appears in chapter 46 "The Dunes" is numbered 15 (it's the 15th verse in this chapter). Pay attention to that 31 + 15 equals 46 (Human chromosome number).

- The word human appears in definite form 46 times up to and before chapter 76 "Human". This is equal to human chromosome number. (This word appears only one time in Quran in indefinite form - in chapter 17 verse 13)

- I have mentioned in point 2 that chapter 76 "Human" is the 31st chapter with the word "Human" appearing at from the beginning of the Quran. At the same time, we find that the 46th verse with word "Human" appearing at from the beginning of the Quran is the first verse of chapter 76 "Human".

- Letter Alef is related to numerous numerical phenomena in the Quran. Maybe this is due to the fact that it's the first revealed letter of the Quran. When studying the text we find that there are 19 "Human" words in chapters initiated by letter Alef and there are 46 "Human" words in chapters not initiated by letter Alef. Note again here that the split is between the key miracle numbers 46 & 19.

- When studying the 19 "Human" words we find that 9 such words appear before chapter 31 "Luqman" and that 9 such words after this chapter. Pay attention to that chapter 31 "Luqman" appears right between two 9 "Human" word sets. The special thing about number 9 is that human haploid chromosome number 23 is the 9th prime number in universe. Note: chapter 31 "Luqman" is initiated by letter Alef and that it has one occurrence of the word "Human".

- The word "Human" in chapter 31 "Luqman" is the 23rd occurrence of the word human from the beginning of the Quran. At the same time it's the 43rd occurrence of the word "Human" from the end of the Quran. Interestingly, the word "Human" appears in 43 chapters of the Holy Quran.

"It is the Truth from thy Lord (O Muhammad), so be not thou of those who waver" - Holy Quran 2:147

More to come later.

I'd like to hear SAM's take on this because I personally don't see any connection at all. None. Zilch. But, then again, I'm atheist. Sorry, but for me, it seems you are looking for connections that in reality just don't exist. SAM's a Muslim, let's see what she thinks.

This has been debunked comprehensively several times.
The "facts" are a result of selective reading and even more selective interpretation.

Well, I could probably do the same thing with the bible, or a Stephen King novel. I'm pretty certain that there are more than enough chapters and verses and mentions of "humans" to provide me with the data.

I'd like to hear SAM's take on this because I personally don't see any connection at all. None. Zilch. But, then again, I'm atheist. Sorry, but for me, it seems you are looking for connections that in reality just don't exist. SAM's a Muslim, let's see what she thinks.
SAM doesn't think, all that often. Waiting to hear what she has to say is probably your first mistake.

Hello,

I will be posting some facts here, you're free to make your mind about. All facts can be found at site: Science and Mathematics in the Holy Quran.


via Wikipedia
Humans have 46 chromosomes. But what about other animal species ?

There are surprisingly few comparative lists of chromosome numbers to be found on the internet. I admit : it does not make a lot of sense. What would be the scientific value of that ?

Just out of curiosity I searched a bit and as far as I know below is the only list of animal species with 46 chromosomes :

- Humans (Homo sapiens)
- Muntjacs (Muntiacus reevesi)
- Black rat (Rattus rattus) , but not all of them have 46
- European hare (Lepus europeus)
- Merriam’s ground squirrel (Spermophilus canus)
- Southern short-tailes shrew (Blarina carolinensis)
- Mountain beaver (Aplodontia rufa)
- Beach vole (Microtus breweri)
- Nilgai (Boselaphus tragocamelus)
- Kirk’s dik-dik (Rhynchotragus kirki)
- Grey vole (Microtus arvalis)

I had heard about the hare but do we trust this list? :shrug:

Can Yosef make this list go away? I think he should have to prove it's invalidity, no?

What about people with Downs syndrome?

What about people with Downs syndrome?

Good point. I guess Yosef will have to decide whether having an extra chromosome means you're human or not.

So basically after all these mental calisthenics we find out that there are numbers and words in the Quran. Now what?

So basically after all these mental calisthenics we find out that there are numbers and words in the Quran. Now what?

He says there's more to come later. Not sure if it's numbers or not.

Hello,

I will be posting some facts here, you're free to make your mind about. All facts can be found at site: Science and Mathematics in the Holy Quran..Which version of the Quran are you using?

I meant that I will be posting more such facts. I am aware of the criticism that such phenomena can be found in any text. I have considered and read about some attempts that tried to do the same with other texts but the phenomena don't match. What I am talking about are hundreds of interesting phenomena in the structure of the Quran. I have discussed some of those many phenomena with other people elsewhere in net and even they have maintained the're atheists they said that what have been presented is simply stunning.

I guess it needs belief in order to appreciate truly what I see there:

Word human appears 65 times in the Quran. At the same time the word "Quran" appears 65 times up to chapter 76 "Human". And the verse where the word "Quran" appears in chapter 76 "Human" is the 65th verse having the word "Quran" in from the beginning of the Quran. Number 65 is the 46th composite number in universe and 46 is human chromosome number.

Moreover, the word "Quran" appears one time in chapter 76 "Human" in verse number 23 and 23 is human haploid chromosome number. This verse is also the 9th from the end of the chapter and number 23 is the 9th prime number in universe. Again this chapter consists of 31 verses and the 31st composite number is 46.

I can also tell about this one:

Some interesting phenomena can be seen when adding up verse numbers of all verses that have the word God - Allah - الله in them from Qurans beginning up to chapter 76 "The Human". The total is: 181838. Consider these facts:

This total divides perfectly by human chromosome number (46). It's equal to 46 X 3953

The factors of the number 181838 are given below with the serial position they have among the prime numbers in universe:

2 is the 1st prime number
23 is the 9th prime number
59 is the 17th prime number
67 is the 19th prime number

The intriguing thing is that the sum of the serial positions of these prime numbers (factors) is human chromosome number 46.

All of this and much more can be found at "Science and Mathematics in the Holy Quran" - Google it!

Yosef, instead of all this piddling about, why doesn't God simply appear on the top of Mount Everest in the form of a giant fire-breathing blue giraffe, and send out his holy messages as smoke rings?

Hahaha. Yosef, the fact that you actually think this is a convincing argument that is worth sharing is proof of how deranged your thinking is.

I meant that I will be posting more such facts.
They do that with the Bible too.

So basically after all these mental calisthenics we find out that there are numbers and words in the Quran. Now what? Now we might conclude that theistic belief is the core stimulus to the human imagination, and that without it we lack the ability to abstract from materialism, conceive of transcendent pattern or entity.

IIRC I've run into argument of that kind before, anyway.

I'm convinced.

Hello,

I will be posting some facts here, you're free to make your mind about. All facts can be found at site: Science and Mathematics in the Holy Quran.

The word "Human" in chapter 31 "Luqman" is the 23rd occurrence of the word human from the beginning of the Quran. At the same time it's the 43rd occurrence of the word "Human" from the end of the Quran. Interestingly, the word "Human" appears in 43 chapters of the Holy Quran.

"It is the Truth from thy Lord (O Muhammad), so be not thou of those who waver" - Holy Quran 2:147

More to come later.

After reading your equating with prime numbers and the Qu'ran I thought about the bible code.

The Bible code, also known as the Torah code, is a series of messages alleged to exist within the Bible text, that when decoded form words and phrases supposedly demonstrating foreknowledge and prophecy. The study and results from this cipher have been popularized by the book The Bible Code. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code)

Can anybody place any credence in Science and Mathematics in the Holy Quran or the bible code?

The same codes have been worked in Shakespeare's complete works with equally stunning results. It's just what happens when you have a ton of letters strung together and you go searching for a pattern.

I'd be more impressed if predicted claims were THEN found by following prescriptive rules. I wouldn't call it proof, but it would still be more impressive than this post-hoc scavenger hunt.

Has anybody read the FSM bible? I heard there's one out there. Maybe more than one but is there one that's official. I really want to do a word count:D

Wikipedia has an article concerning the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) (or FSM)
Due to its recent popularity and media exposure, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is often used by atheists, agnostics (known by Pastafarians as "spagnostics"), and others as a modern version of Russell's teapot and the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

Wikipedia has an article concerning the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) (or FSM)
Due to its recent popularity and media exposure, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is often used by atheists, agnostics (known by Pastafarians as "spagnostics"), and others as a modern version of Russell's teapot and the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

I saw that but I'd like to read the official FSM bible. I don't put my faith in Wiki. If someone has positive knowledge of the true FSM bible could you share it with us? Author, title, publisher, authenticity?

William Shakespeare was 46 years old when the King James Version of the Bible was written. The 46th word from the front is 'shake' and the 46th from the back is 'spear'.

It's monkeys on a typewriter - lengthy works almost always create these seemingly meaningful patterns.

I saw that but I'd like to read the official FSM bible. I don't put my faith in Wiki. If someone has positive knowledge of the true FSM bible could you share it with us? Author, title, publisher, authenticity?

Here you go PsychoticEpisode - amazon.com has it for $11.00
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812976568/marcofromcom-20

Editorial Review
From Scientific American
An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny.

You can do some reading (FSM) without buying at Google Books. (http://books.google.com/books?id=Gmmfp1p0bJgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Flying+Spaghetti+Monster#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

What about people with Downs syndrome?That's true I suppose that people with Kleinfelter's syndrome don't count as human either?

They do that with the Bible too.The Bible Code came out how many decades ago? Just like Muslims to show up to the party late :p

Some mathematicians applied "The Bible Code" to War and Peace and found "oh my" God was in there sending secret messages to the "believers" as well! :D

:)I think people should at least read the Quran after reading the interesting 'miracles' that were shown in the=is thread. It is easy to dismiss something you have not read but is it fair to do so. I believe there are many logical evidences which prove existence of a God.

Also we should not let media spin cloud our judgement about Islam. Also there is a lot of evangelical Christian claims against Islam and the Quran. We need to look beyond their claims and be open minded. I will give you one exaple of their claims and show that it is not fair and accurate.

This is an example of one of their claims which is clouding people's judgements:

The Quran is not from Satan by Yahya Snow
Some Christians say the Quran is from Satan
A more base claim they make is that the Quran is from the Devil. Christians who tend to make this claim are the extremely lay but tend to be the very devout Christians. These Christians make such base claims out of their own lack of knowledge and the fact the their extreme devotion to their faith renders them with a very ‘black and white’ perspective; they generally view things that oppose their faith as evil and devil-inspired’.
The Christians who do make such a claim do expose their own ignorance of Islam and Christianity. This is because whenever a Muslim intends to read the Quran he/she will seek refuge from the Devil and if we look into the Quran we realise that the Quran in chapter 2 and verse 168 teaches us that the Devil is an enemy to mankind: 2:168. O ye people! Eat of what is on earth, Lawful and good; and do not follow the footsteps of the evil one, for he is to you an avowed enemy. (1)
So the obvious conclusion we draw from this knowledge is that the Quran is not from the Devil as the devil would not teach such teachings. The Christian may continue to make this claim despite this information, if this is the case then the humiliation and exposing of a lack of knowledge on the part of the Christian who makes this claim continues as the Muslim can easily point to the misery that alcohol causes mankind (including the misery that is Fetal Alcohol Syndrome). Christianity allows the drinking of alcohol while the Quran forbids the consummation of alcohol. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) occurs "when a woman drinks alcohol during pregnancy, she risks giving birth to a child who will pay the price — in mental and physical deficiencies — for his or her entire life" (2). Some of the symptoms of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome affecting the child are delayed development, organ dysfunction, failure to thrive, facial abnormalities and can lead to mental helath problems and troubles with the law in later life (2).
Why is all this relevant to the Quran? Well, the Christian claims that the Quran is from Satan yet the Quran has saved millions of children from this horrendous disease while the Bible has not. So this is further humiliation and refutation poured upon the mindless claim of the missionaries.
The question to ask them is; how did the Quran (which they say is from Satan) save millions of children from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (and from other alcohol related diseases) while the Bible (which they believe to be fully from God) allowed the drinking of alcohol and allowed Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to affect millions of children? Surely God gives us wholesome teachings (ie forbidding alcohol) and Satan teaches us impure teachings (ie drinking alcohol). This would leave the Christian speechless and Insha’Allah (God Willing) the honest Christian will realise that this is a sign that the Quran is from God.
This argument (that Satan would not teach/promote teachings which are good or against Satan) is supported by the Bible in Mark 3:23 where the Christian is taught that Satan does not drive himself out (3). Thus the Christian would accept this Muslim response and recognise that the Quran is not from Satan.
It is also important to note that you wil always come across Christians who will not relent and will continue in their unscholarly ways despite all the logic and fine refutation you point them to.
References
1. Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of the glorious Quran (2:168)
2.
3. New International Version of the Bible, Mark 3:23



Also, are most people on here Christians or Atheists?

Most of them are Christians, but they don't realise it.

A few are Atheists, but largely agree with Christian mores.
If you take Richard Dawkins as their figurehead, he's hardly sex drugs and Rock'n'Roll is he?

A few are Muslims, Buddhists or other faiths.

Occasionally, some are Fascists, but are usually kicked off fairly quickly.

Not really. The morals from which most laws are derived, and by which most abide, have their seeds far further back in antiquity than Christianity does. The Abrahamic religions (they are, after all, very similar to each other) are merely a universally recognisable point of historical reference.

Yes, Christianity can be looked on as a subset of Judaism. Fair point.
But I didn't get this bit:

The Abrahamic religions (they are, after all, very similar to each other) are merely a universally recognisable point of historical reference.

Hello,

I will be posting some facts here, you're free to make your mind about. All facts can be found at site: Science and Mathematics in the Holy Quran.


More to come later.

Must you? It's been done to death by other Islamic propagandists already.

the word "Human" in the Quran.

I thought the koran was written in arabic?

I have noticed that some people here are interested in the numbers that I present so here is more:

A new arena involves prime numbers. A new letter value table has been developed. Arabic letters are arranged alphabetically (Alef, Baa, Taa, Thaa...) and each letter is given a prime number according to order of appearance. So Alef gets 2, Baa gets 3, Taa gets 5 and so on.

Taking the opening chapter of the Quran, giving each letter a value according to the primalogy table mentioned above and summing the values gives the number 8317 which is a PRIME number. Summing the digits of this number gives 19 which is a PRIME too and is a key miracle number.

That's not all, here are even greater miracles concerning the opening (key) chapter and the key miracle prime number (19):

Taking each letter and giving it a value according to letters' order of appearance in this chapter, putting the values side by side right to left (as is Arabic language), we get a number (165 digits) that divides perfectly by 19.

Even starting the process at opening verse and taking the number representing the 6 verses without the bismallah (opening verse) (163 digit number) gives a number that divides perfectly by 19 too.

Illustration:

"God has revealed the Quran"

123 456 789851083 1148 12137514

Yet another one:

We use some letter-number value systems derived for the Holy Quran and substitute each letter in the opening chapter with that number value. As always we put the values side by side right to left.

a. Quranic initial values (each letter gets a value according to how many times it appears among the mysterious Quranic initials)

Here we get a number consisting of 169 digits. This number divides by 19 perfectly.

b. Quranic Gommal (letter values based on Quranic meanings)

Here we get a number consisting of 316 digits. This number divides by 19 perfectly.

c. Letter value table based on 99 names of God - Allah:

Here we get a number consisting of 163 digits. This number too divides by 19 perfectly!!

At the same time:
Taking each word and writing below it how many Alef, Lam, Haa letters it has (the ones making the word God), putting the values side by side right to left gives a huge number that divides perfectly by 7. Note that there are 49 Alef, Lam, Haa letters in this chapter. 49 is 7 x 7.

SEVEN is key miracle number, also in the Bible.

Yet another one:

Taking each word and writing below it how many Alef, Lam, Meem letters it has (the ones making the first Quranic initial in Quran and the one that comes right after opening chapter), putting the values side by side right to left gives a huge number that divides perfectly by 7.

Another one:

Writing each verse number, number of words in that verse, number of letters in that verse, doing the same for all verses and putting values side by side (again right to left) gives a number that divides perfectly by 7

Another one:

Incremental count of letters in words, writing values side by side, gives a big number (57 digits) that divides by 7 THREE times!

Last:

First letter appearing in key chapter is Baa: it appears 4 times in this chapter.
Last letter appearing in key chapter is Noon: it appears 11 times in this chapter.

Side b side right to left gives 114 which is equal to number of chapters in the Quran. As the Prophet says "The key chapter or as it is referred to in Quran (Doubler Seven) equals to the whole "Quran". In fact if we take Quranic initial letter value system (mentioned above) and sum the values for this chapter according to this table we get a round 1000 !! As God, in Quran, challenges unbelievers to come with 1 chapter as those of the Quran or to come with 10 like them.

And much more in this chapter of 139 letters. Interestingly 1 + 3 + 9 is 13 which is a PRIME number and that 139 is the 19th such prime in universe (Prime and digit sum as prime too) (called additive prime).

Have a nice day.

Oh look, that cloud up in the sky looks like a bunny. Must be another Quran miracle!

Yosef, instead of all this piddling about, why doesn't God simply appear on the top of Mount Everest in the form of a giant fire-breathing blue giraffe, and send out his holy messages as smoke rings?

why even do that? why not create us believing in him by default?


Hahaha. Yosef, the fact that you actually think this is a convincing argument that is worth sharing is proof of how deranged your thinking is.
well, i was gonna flame you for your rudeness and stupidity, i mean you could've been like:

Must you? It's been done to death by other Islamic propagandists already.
but then i read this:

I have noticed that some people here are interested in the numbers that I present so here is more:

....
:roflmao:

anyway, my personal opinion about this is, well, with the atheists, i don't care much for all this, for me, if it's all true somehow, then it's mere sprinkles on a piece of cake, if it's all "monkeys on a type writer", or as cellur door or psychotic episode demonstrated, then the cake still tastes great.

there is room for more proof, but what i already have is more than enough.

I remember someone came to the math and physics section pointing to Yosef's arguments and asking us to debunk them. I guess now the source of the rubbish has come in person to hear for themselves how retarded the whole thing is. Welcome Yosef to a world full of people with actual educations who will critically analyze you and pick you apart to the bone. Avast, ye swabs! I say we make this scurvy scoundrel walk the plank and send him swimming home to his imams.

The Bible Code came out how many decades ago? Just like Muslims to show up to the party late :p

Some mathematicians applied "The Bible Code" to War and Peace and found "oh my" God was in there sending secret messages to the "believers" as well! :D

Of course. If you start out with the premise that there is something there, you will find these relationships between numbers. Scientists even did it with some so-called constants of the very small and the very big.

I have noticed that some people here are interested in the numbers that I present so here is more:

Which people?????????
Erm, excuse me but no-one was interested.
I'm getting a bit suspicious of you Josef.

why even do that? why not create us believing in him by default?



That's a good theological question.
Anyone feel adequate to answering it?

That's a good theological question.
Anyone feel adequate to answering it?

Well its pretty much either he's evil or stupid.

I am pretty convinced that there is an intelligent designer back all what have been told about so far. I would love to hear from you "Scifes" about the proof when you say "there is room for more proof, but what i already have is more than enough."?! Proof for lack of designer? Would like to know more.

What about this:

The Word "Human" appears 65 times in the Quran and the word Quran appears 65 times up to / before chapter 76 "Human". Interestingly, number 65 is the 46th composite number in universe (and 46 is, of course, human chromosome number). Yet even more, the verse where the word Quran appears in chapter 76 "Human" (verse number 23) is the 65th verse form Quran's beginning that contains the word "Quran". Pay close attention that this special word appears in verse number 23 of chapter 76 "Human". 23 is equal to human haploid chromosome number. This is the only verse numbered "23" in whole Quran that contains the word "Quran" and amazingly it appears in chapter 76 "Human" !

There are several structural systems in the Quran, two central ones are prime number series and composite number series. We see for instance that chapter 76 "Human" is the 31st chapter in the Quran that contains the word "Human". At the same time, chapter 76 "Human" has 31 verses. Interestingly 46 is the 31st composite number in universe. The phenomena are consistent as we see that the 46th verse with word "Human" in from Quran's beginning is verse number one of chapter 76 "Human" !

And some say there is no designer? Of course there is. He is Jehovah - God - Allah whatever your religious background is or was!

And you decided 46 is more important to consider than 76 on what grounds? What a joke. Let's see you predict something about science that isn't already known, that's the only way to prove you're not just picking and choosing numbers and patterns as you please.

I am pretty convinced that there is an intelligent designer back all what have been told about so far. I would love to hear from you "Scifes" about the proof when you say "there is room for more proof, but what i already have is more than enough."?! Proof for lack of designer? Would like to know more.

What about this:

The Word "Human" appears 65 times in the Quran and the word Quran appears 65 times up to / before chapter 76 "Human". Interestingly, number 65 is the 46th composite number in universe (and 46 is, of course, human chromosome number). Yet even more, the verse where the word Quran appears in chapter 76 "Human" (verse number 23) is the 65th verse form Quran's beginning that contains the word "Quran". Pay close attention that this special word appears in verse number 23 of chapter 76 "Human". 23 is equal to human haploid chromosome number. This is the only verse numbered "23" in whole Quran that contains the word "Quran" and amazingly it appears in chapter 76 "Human" !

There are several structural systems in the Quran, two central ones are prime number series and composite number series. We see for instance that chapter 76 "Human" is the 31st chapter in the Quran that contains the word "Human". At the same time, chapter 76 "Human" has 31 verses. Interestingly 46 is the 31st composite number in universe. The phenomena are consistent as we see that the 46th verse with word "Human" in from Quran's beginning is verse number one of chapter 76 "Human" !

And some say there is no designer? Of course there is. He is Jehovah - God - Allah whatever your religious background is or was!
That means absolutely nothing.

Many believers claim God exists outside science because there isn’t any scientific evidence for the existence of a creator. Then they turn right around attempting to use science for promoting God's existence.

Chapter 76 is titled "Human". In 1776, America declared its independence, and in 1976 Jimmy Carter, the Great Humanitarian, was elected as its president. Clearly the Quran is telling us that America and its televangelists are the way of the future. In fact, I'm already mailing in my first cheque. Interestingly enough, 76 is the 55th composite number. 55 is the idealized retirement age for Americans, the symbolic end of the Human life cycle. Again, this is proof that the Quran is telling us something very important about living like Americans.

1961 Is it a number or a foursome?

Many believers claim God exists outside science because there isn’t any scientific evidence for the existence of a creator. Then they turn right around attempting to use science for promoting God's existence.

How can you say there is no evidence for the existence of God?! Many scientists exclude God at first place so they don't see his wonders in front of their eyes and under their microscopes.

I see God's hand everywhere. All living things are designed. Planets are placed at their places and universe is right size, right expansion rate and right physical constants so we will be able to live on earth.

He created everything and he revealed the Quran. Did you know that the only verse in the Quran that talks about the moon been touched by hands of man is the 1390th verse from the end of the Quran and that the year that completed 1390 years in Islamic calendar is the year 1969 when man landed on moon?!

Some claim landing on moon was a hoax by the US but yet The Quran testifies that the US and NASA are right!

Back to chromosomes:

Number 19 is key miracle number in revelations of God. Chapter 23 of the Holy Quran is named "The Believers". As said earlier, 23 is human haploid chromosome number.

19 "Insan" words (meaning Human) appear up to and before chapter number 23.

AND

19 "Bashar" words (synonym for word Human) appear up to and before chapter number 23.

No coincidences in the Book of God.

I am not sure how many hours a million type-writer monkeys will need to work in oder to write a flawless page of the Quran and how many more hours it will take them to produce all those numerical and scientific phenomena. The alternative is one all knowing unlimited God! Much simpler.

BTW do you know that some evolutionsits went so far to say that the one million monkeys need some one "correcting erasing and adjusting" monkey?!

Do you know that Dawkins accepts the idea of aliens might have planted intelligence on earth?! I hope he and many more will eventually replace the aliens they have in mind with the one almighty God.

Best wishes.

How can you say there is no evidence for the existence of God?! Many scientists exclude God at first place so they don't see his wonders in front of their eyes and under their microscopes.They exclude it because (as yet) it is an unnecessary in understanding the workings of the universe.


I see God's hand everywhere.Hallucinations?

All living things are designed.Evidence for this being...?

Planets are placed at their places and universe is right size, right expansion rate and right physical constants so we will be able to live on earth.Lol! You see humanity as special, and thus we are the purpose of the universe? Rather than the possibility that we are just a natural part of the universe, nothing special, and had the universal constants or planet placement been any different we would not have existed?
Wow - very conceited of you.
Of course, you have evidence to support your position?


He created everything and he revealed the Quran. Did you know that the only verse in the Quran that talks about the moon been touched by hands of man is the 1390th verse from the end of the Quran and that the year that completed 1390 years in Islamic calendar is the year 1969 when man landed on moon?!
...
No coincidences in the Book of God.Any large enough book can contain "codes" and coincidences for almost anything if you look hard enough.
Did you know that "Moby Dick" contained a code that detailed the death of Princess Diana??? :o


I am not sure how many hours a million type-writer monkeys will need to work in oder to write a flawless page of the Quran and how many more hours it will take them to produce all those numerical and scientific phenomena. The alternative is one all knowing unlimited God! Much simpler.False dilemma fallacy.
A far more likely scenario is that the Quran is man-made, and that the "numerical and scientific phenomena" you mention (moon landings, chromosomes etc) are mere coincidence.
God once again does not pass Occam's Razor.

Originally Posted by earth
Many believers claim God exists outside science because there isn’t any scientific evidence for the existence of a creator. Then they turn right around attempting to use science for promoting God's existence.


Originally Posted by Yosef
How can you say there is no evidence for the existence of God?! Many scientists exclude God at first place so they don't see his wonders in front of their eyes and under their microscopes.
I see God's hand everywhere. All living things are designed. Planets are placed at their places and universe is right size, right expansion rate and right physical constants so we will be able to live on earth.

The fact is you cannot make a case for the existence of God without using religious text such as the bible or the Qu’ran. Therefore you have no scientific evidence. Here again in your post you use science by referring to the universe and the accumulated scientific knowledge about it. In doing so you deny that science had made it known they have no evidence and present none for the existence of God. That is when you pretend science it is wrong and refer to your Qu'ran. And then you try to fit in science to your religion again. Your science isn’t science at all; it’s simply religion masquerading as science. And you have a nonsensical circle going.

How can you say there is no evidence for the existence of God?!

Because, there IS NO evidence for the existence of gods. Simple, really.


I see God's hand everywhere.

No, you don't. That would be a lie.


All living things are designed. Planets are placed at their places and universe is right size, right expansion rate and right physical constants so we will be able to live on earth.

Medieval thinking.

Did you come here in a time machine?


He created everything and he revealed the Quran. Did you know that the only verse in the Quran that talks about the moon been touched by hands of man is the 1390th verse from the end of the Quran and that the year that completed 1390 years in Islamic calendar is the year 1969 when man landed on moon?!

Complete nonsense.


The Quran testifies that the US and NASA are right!

That is a bold-faced lie.


No coincidences in the Book of God.

Just myth and superstitions.



BTW do you know that some evolutionsits went so far to say that the one million monkeys need some one "correcting erasing and adjusting" monkey?!

Do you know that Dawkins accepts the idea of aliens might have planted intelligence on earth?!

More bullshit lies.

All you've demonstrated is that Muslims who spread Islamic propaganda are liars.

It's no lies at all. I heard Dawkins saying that he accepts aliens have planted intelligence on earth. I heard that in "Expelled". And yes some evolutionists such as Eugenie Scott proposed that a correcting monkey is needed to solve the one million monkey problem.

Design is simply a set of integrated components that all work in harmony and that function of the system as whole depends on the accurate work of each part. This can be seen in all living things. A designer is thus needed. You need to face the fact that it is very hard for evolutionists to explain how information can raise from "lower levels" and increase in complexity.

Sorry to hear that some think there is no purpose and goal back all this life. You really should start looking for God. Your life won't be the same again after finding Him. Good luck :)

That 19 "Bashar" (meaning Human) and that 19 "Insan" (Human too) appear in the Quran up to and before chapter number 23 is not the only thing. There are 2673 verses up to chapter 23 and interestingly there are exactly 2673 "God" words up to chapter 76 ""Human"!

The verse number total of those 2673 occurrences of the word "God" that appear before chapter 76 "Human" is 181838:

This total divides perfectly by human chromosome number (46). It's equal to 46 X 3953

The factors of the number 181838 are given below with the serial position they have among the prime numbers in universe:

2 is the 1st prime number
23 is the 9th prime number
59 is the 17th prime number
67 is the 19th prime number

The intriguing thing is that the sum of the serial positions of these prime numbers (factors) is human chromosome number 46.

The nearest number to 181838 that would show the same phenomena described above is +8000 plus/minus 181838.

Numbers with factor positions adding up to 46 is seen in other totals up to chapter 76. I Will talk about later.

It's no lies at all. I heard Dawkins saying that he accepts aliens have planted intelligence on earth. I heard that in "Expelled". And yes some evolutionists such as Eugenie Scott proposed that a correcting monkey is needed to solve the one million monkey problem.

So, you lie about lying and then spread more lies.


Design is simply a set of integrated components that all work in harmony and that function of the system as whole depends on the accurate work of each part. This can be seen in all living things. A designer is thus needed.

You are confused at that which is designed with that which may appear designed. A designer is not required for that which appears designed.


You need to face the fact that it is very hard for evolutionists to explain how information can raise from "lower levels" and increase in complexity.

You need to get an education to understand facts.


Sorry to hear that some think there is no purpose and goal back all this life. You really should start looking for God. Your life won't be the same again after finding Him. Good luck

You really should stop lying, your life won't be the same again. Your cult is not a purpose.


I Will talk about later.

You mean you'll lie about it later.

That's a good theological question.
Anyone feel adequate to answering it?

i nominate stranger, he knows exactly how god should do his stuff..

It's no lies at all.

I thought I'd ask an expert and this is what I got in return...


"Some atheists here say there is no GOD"
"Yosef says, 'If you see it in THE NUMBERS it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a GOD?

"Your friend, Psychoticepisode (PE)"

PE, your atheist friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, PE, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, PE, there is a GOD. He exists as certainly as arithmetic, calculus, geometry and physics exist, and you know that they abound and give to your bibles all the number proofs you need. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no GOD. It would be as dreary as if there were no PE. There would be no blind faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which SciForums fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in GOD! You might as well not believe in numbers! You might get your atheist pals to hire men to watch in all the churches on Christmas Eve to find GOD, but even if they did not see GOD, what would that prove? Nobody sees GOD, but that is no sign that there is no GOD. The most real things in the world are those that neither atheists nor theists can see. Did you ever see numbers dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the numbers there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

LG would say, 'You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart.' Only blind faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, & lots of beautiful numbers can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, PE, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No GOD! Thank Yosef and his buddies that he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, PE, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, He will continue to make glad the heart of the members of SciForums.


I guess I was told

It's no lies at all. I heard Dawkins saying that he accepts aliens have planted intelligence on earth. I heard that in "Expelled".
I would like to hear the specific source of that statement by Dawkins.



Design is simply a set of integrated components that all work in harmony and that function of the system as whole depends on the accurate work of each part. This can be seen in all living things. A designer is thus needed.
This is false. Although the components must all function in harmony, there is in fact a great deal of wiggle room as to the specific "design" of each part. Natural selection explains how this can come about without a designing agent.

spidergoat:

Dawkins said that at the end of a documentary called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" from 2008. He said that aliens might be those who planted the seeds of life on earth.

spidergoat:

Dawkins said that at the end of a documentary called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" from 2008. He said that aliens might be those who planted the seeds of life on earth.

You are a liar. Here is what Dawkins said - emphasis mine.

"highly unlikely event that some such 'Directed Panspermia' was responsible for designing life on this planet, the alien beings would themselves have to have evolved"

My Jimmy Carter interpretation of the Quran is far more accurate, direct and obvious than everything Yosef's been doing with his numbers. Rejoice world, for soon ye shall be blessed with mountains of beer, popcorn, and an eternity of baseball.


http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/dv1176013.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=74DAE4A9522E9CE50EAA6CB8B6E85F4BE30A760B0D811297

spidergoat:

Dawkins said that at the end of a documentary called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" from 2008. He said that aliens might be those who planted the seeds of life on earth.

(Q) is right as usual. There is nothing in science that would make such an event impossible. Aliens aren't supernatural beings. Directed panspermia is a possibility, as is life first evolving on Mars or somewhere, and it traveling to Earth in a chunk of rock. Rocks from Mars have been found in Antarctica. Or life evolved right here, as the Miller-Urey Experiment confirmed was also possible.

Believe me Yosef, u make us a joke no more .
I know thats hard to say and u'll report but i should reply.
How can a Muslim to believe that, let alone an atheist.
Do u think that balderdash is a Mathematics, according to me and to every conscious Muslim that is sophistry.
Please, dont write anything with foolishness because u'll distort the image of Islam.
Nowaday, the Muslim enthusiasts are multiplying everyday or every minute, they r specially in america or europe... and they r contemptible because they r Muslim, so they try to proof that Quran have Miracles (and thats true) to have more respect but they make from islam and themselves a joke.Like those Pakistan guys they said that the tree is kneel to GOD........(i think u see the pictures)
In my opinion i see that GOD is greater than show his power in a way like that and Quran is a holy book not a scholastic book.
And, i dont say that Quran is not miracle but we should linger before writing, and try to understand what we write

Please, dont write anything with foolishness because u'll distort the image of Islam.

Now there is a challenging conjecture. Is it even possible?

Quran have Miracles (and thats true)

And, i dont say that Quran is not miracle but we should linger before writing, and try to understand what we write

If a person goes away by themselves for a period of time and returns to exclaim they've been talking with angels, would you not have them see a psychiatrist?

Or, do you believe everything anyone tells you?

do you believe everything anyone tells you?

They only swallow the irrational stuff without question.

If it makes sense, forget it.

in Holy Quraan there are Allah's characters

and allah promised the muslims who obey and admire the islam's regulation , he will see Allah in heaven !!

I can understand that the facts presented so far might seem arbitrary but numerous findings support the idea that prime number series and composite number series are main building blocks in the Holy Quran. Number systems underly every letter, word, verse and chapter of the Holy Quran.

Again word "Human" (all forms) appears 47 times up to chapter 76 "Human": 46 times in definite form and one time in indefinite form.

Interesting phenomena can be seen when applying same methods. For example: concatenating chapter number with verse number for the 47 occurrences of the word Human (all forms) up to chapter 76 "Human", and summing the values gives the total 145167 (concatenating is a well supported method, see note at bottom).

145167 divides perfectly by 83 and 83 is the 23rd prime number in universe. At the same time the sum of the serial positions of the factors of 145167 among prime numbers adds up to 46 (human chromosome number).

If we do the same with the 46 occurrences of the word Human up to chapter 76 "Human" (i.e. excluding the one and only occurrence in indefinite form in chapter 17 "Israelites" verse 13), that is to say subtracting 1317 from 145167, we get the number 143850. The sum of the serial positions of the factors of this number among prime numbers adds up to 46 too (human chromosome number).

Let's introduce some "error" in the first number. What result would we get if the total 145167 was 145166 instead?! The sum of the serial positions of the factors of this number among prime numbers adds up to a huge 1277 !!

Let's introduce some "error" in the second number. What result would we get if the total 143850 was 143849 instead?! The sum of the serial positions of the factors of this number among prime numbers adds up to 57 !!

It might be due to coincidence that the total for word "Human" in all forms up to chapter 76 "Human" gives an interesting 145167 but for both sums (all forms and only definite) to give two numbers that the serial positions of the factors of among prime numbers add up to 46 is quite remarkable. Let alone that there are exactly 46 "Human" words (in definite form) up to chapter 76 "Human" (in fact chapters name is Alansn which means "The Human").

I remind that these phenomena are seen within the 65 occurrences of the word "Human" in the Quran. 65 is the 46th composite number in universe. In the same manner as 65 "Human" words (all forms) appear in the Quran, the word "Quran" appears in all forms 65 times up to chapter 76 "Human".

All of this is up on web and I can refer you to places where you can verify and analyze the totals mathematically. But I need to reach 20 posts before being able to post links. I will be around!

Note: concatenating chapter and verse number is a well supported method. It gives interesting prime numbers, verse totals, phenomena relating to human chromosome number, human chromosome number discoverer and so on...

Best wishes :)

All of this is up on web and I can refer you to places where you can verify and analyze the totals mathematically. But I need to reach 20 posts before being able to post links. I will be around!

You lying curs should be banned. Instead, you'll be welcomed and nurtured by the admin team for your agenda. You'll probably find sciforums as a new home base to spread your propaganda as many other Islamic propagandists have. They get kicked out everywhere else, of course, but find a haven here.

Let's introduce some "error" in the first number. What result would we get if the total 145167 was 145166 instead?! The sum of the serial positions of the factors of this number among prime numbers adds up to a huge 1277 !!

Let's introduce some "error" in the second number. What result would we get if the total 143850 was 143849 instead?! The sum of the serial positions of the factors of this number among prime numbers adds up to 57 !!

Hey, if I was cute, furry, had a tail, climbed trees and hoarded nuts, I'd be a squirrel. But I'm not those things. When something doesn't give you an interesting result, you just give it a little nudge, "error correction" as you say. And you do it a dozen times to get a semblance of a vague argument. This is the same game all numerologists play, what makes your numerology better than that of the Hindus and Kabbalists?

Only one way to prove that your fudges, error corrections, summations, divisions and concatenations are better than what others have already done for all the other ancient books. Tell us what the biggest technological invention/discovery of the next decade will be, and some details about how it will be found and what it implies, since you think there's so much information there on genetics.

Hey, if I was cute, furry, had a tail, climbed trees and hoarded nuts, I'd be a squirrel. But I'm not those things. When something doesn't give you an interesting result, you just give it a little nudge, "error correction" as you say. And you do it a dozen times to get a semblance of a vague argument. This is the same game all numerologists play, what makes your numerology better than that of the Hindus and Kabbalists?

Only one way to prove that your fudges, error corrections, summations, divisions and concatenations are better than what others have already done for all the other ancient books. Tell us what the biggest technological invention/discovery of the next decade will be, and some details about how it will be found and what it implies, since you think there's so much information there on genetics.

No it wasn't a correction at all. I meant "let us see what results we will get if the numbers were little bit different than what they are (i.e. from what God wanted them to be)".

The numbers derived from the Quran without any modifications are numbers that the sum of the serial positions of their factors among prime numbers add up to 46 (human chromosome number).

Q: It no lies at all. I would have found a better way of spending my time than fabricating numbers...

Here are additional facts:

Chapter 96 "The Clot" - This chapter is named "The Clot" and refers to the fertilized egg as it gets attached to the uterus wall. God says in this chapter: "Createth man from a clot".

This chapter has as many as 72 words yet it is written using only 23 unique Arabic letters (out of 28 letters in Arabic language). Number 23 is equal to human haploid chromosome number.

Chapter 76 "Human" has 243 words and is written using all Arabic alphabet yet we find that the 2 verses with the two occurrences of the word "Human" in this chapter are written with only 23 letters.

At the same time the 4 verses with the 5 occurrences of the word "God" in this chapter are also written using 23 unique Arabic letters.

you must be copying this from a web site. the same thing was done with the bible codes and even nostradamus.

No it wasn't a correction at all. I meant "let us see what results we will get if the numbers were little bit different than what they are (i.e. from what God wanted them to be)".

Welcome to Sciforums, a haven for cult nutters. You'll receive five star treatment, complimentary soap and towels and a continental breakfast. Dinner is black tie or bhurka. Check out time is never.

No it wasn't a correction at all. I meant "let us see what results we will get if the numbers were little bit different than what they are (i.e. from what God wanted them to be)".

The numbers derived from the Quran without any modifications are numbers that the sum of the serial positions of their factors among prime numbers add up to 46 (human chromosome number).

Ok, I misunderstood the purpose of you adding error corrections there, it was to demonstrate how things could go wrong if you made small changes. Fair enough. So then it doesn't trouble you when you look at sentences like the following?


The sum of the serial positions of the factors of this number among prime numbers

That's an awful lot of mixing, mashing, slicing and dicing you do there for a single number, especially considering you're free to cherry pick the numbers you use in the first place. And if something didn't work out, what's to stop you from doing more factoring, summing, subtracting and concatenating until you find a number that 46 divides perfectly or some such?

Considering how excited you seem at the ambiguous relationships and parallels you're drawing, I'm surprised you guys aren't snapping up all the patents for new inventions before the greedy corporate atheists manage to do it.

The method of summing up the serial positions of factors is solid and numerous observations support it. Let us rather consider some simpler facts:

Chapter 96 "The Clot": This chapter is named "The Clot" and refers to the fertilized egg as it gets attached to the uterus wall. God says in this chapter: "Createth man from a clot". This chapter is the only one with a name with direct reference to human creation.

This chapter has as many as 72 words yet it is written using only 23 unique Arabic letters (out of 28 letters in Arabic language). Number 23 is equal to human haploid chromosome number.

The word God - "Allah" - الله -appears only once in this chapter: in verse number 14. This occurrence of word God is the 2691st from Quran's beginning. This number, 2691, divides perfectly by human haploid chromosome number 23. It's equal to 23 x 117.

At the same time, this verse (number 14) with this occurrence is the 117th from the end of the Quran !!

Even more interestingly is the fact that exactly 117 letters pass by in this chapter as the phrase "Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all)" ends (in verse 8). This corresponds to what God says other places in the Quran that in same way He has created Man and put him on earth, He would bring him back to him. Our origin is 23 pairs of chromosomes and the 117 number signifies end state of being raised from the dead to meet Him.

This occurrence of the word God - "Allah" - الله - (in verse 14 of this chapter) is the 9th "Allah" from the end of the Quran (i.e. when counting from back). The interesting thing is that the 9th prime number in universe is 23.

The word "The Clot" appears only one time in this chapter: in verse number 2. This word is the 9th word in this chapter. Again the 9th prime number in universe is 23. At the same time, this same word is the 64th from the end of the chapter. The number 64 is the reversed form of the number 46 (human chromosome number). Reversing is natural since we counted from back.

There is a designer back all creation and back all these phenomena in the Quran. I remind you that the Quran was revealed 1430 years ago and human chromosome number was discovered in the year 1955.

There are many more such interesting phenomena in the Quran that ALL testify that it's, in fact, word of Allah - Jehovah God.

I would like to mention also that all numbers have been verified. It's all true! Do you really want to accept the ignorant idea of non existence of an all knowing God?! A God that will guide you and make your life much richer?!

Best wishes.

Now you are just preaching. You posted the same unconvincing garbage several times now. Saying we came from a "clot" is no different than saying we came from a "lump". Both words are no real explanation. If the Qu'ran had explained about chromosomes, that would be one thing, but to simply have the same number of words means NOTHING. Books contain letters and words and are divided into chapters, meaning that all sorts of corresponding numbers can be generated. All sorts of meaningful numbers are also generated by science. To connect the two shows nothing.

If you can, explain how anything in the Qu'ran reveals information that could not have been known at the time. Let them explain that Jupiter is made of gas, and Mars is made of rock. Let them say something about the spiral structure of DNA, or genes, or even cells.

There is no "Allah".

There is no "Allah".

What evidence you have for that?! What microscopic or cosmic evidence you have?!

Maybe you don't know that God says in the Quran that heavens and earth were one piece and that they have been parted asunder?! He has mentioned Big Bang 1430 years ago !! Who is the one who stood back Big Bang?! Do you know that the Big Bang is a highly & carefully calculated plan?! Exactly as it's described in the verse of the Quran.

Just bring a text of 139 letters that would give, using different and meaningful letter value systems, huge numbers (+160 digits numbers) that all divide by 19 perfectly. The challenge is there. God challenges everyone to write only a chapter like those of the Quran. No one has managed to do that in 1430 years.

You see those letter value systems, they should also give (huge) numbers (+1400 digit numbers) that divide perfectly by 46 (human chromosome number) when applied to chapters "Human" and "Clot".

What is presented here is only a fraction of the miracles found out there.

Is it also a coincidence that:

Chapter "The Bee" is the 16th chapter of the Quran?! Bee haploid chromosome number is 16.

or that the only verse where the word "Bee" appears in chapter "The Bee" consists of exactly 16 unique Arabic letters (out of the 28 letters in Arabic) i.e. repeated excluded. (Exactly the same can be seen in chapter 76 "Human")

or the fact that as the word "Bee" ends in that same verse, 16 letters would have passed by (in verse).

That chapter "The Bee" consists of 128 verses and that 128 is equal to 32 x 4 or 16 x 8. (32 is total chromosome number in bees).

What about the apparent size of moon and sun?! How many earths are needed to find one like ours so we will have a sun and a moon of apparently same size on the sky.

Allah - Jehovah God makes much more sense!

Maybe you don't know that God says in the Quran that heavens and earth were one piece and that they have been parted asunder?! He has mentioned Big Bang 1430 years ago !!

No. Or else bring your proofs, if ye be truthful.


Just bring a text of 139 letters that would give, using different and meaningful letter value systems, huge numbers (+160 digits numbers) that all divide by 19 perfectly. The challenge is there. God challenges everyone to write only a chapter like those of the Quran.

It would be astoundingly simple. The problem with all these number counts is a) that they only work in one language and b) that they can be done for almost any book ever written, if one only changes the base number.


Chapter "The Bee" is the 16th chapter of the Quran?! Bee haploid chromosome number is 16.

And? Bee diploid number is 32. Coincidence. Why doesn't each chapter start with the chromosomal number of its subject?


What about the apparent size of moon and sun?! How many earths are needed to find one like ours so we will have a sun and a moon of apparently same size on the sky.

How do you know this was Allah's doing?


Allah - Jehovah God makes much more sense!

On the basis of the arguments you have offered, only to the mad.

GeoffP: It's the ratio pf phenomena to text that counts. As can be seen systems are consistent in several parts and places in the Quran.

Here I will present numeric facts concerning the linguistic structure of chapter 76, named "Human", of the Holy Quran. Can it be that this marvelous piece of literature is built, letter by letter, on the key number related to human creation, namely human chromosome number - 46 - ?! Let's consider these facts:

- A simple fact is that this chapter has 199 Alef letters. Alef is the first revealed letter of the Holy Quran and many great numeric & scientfic phenomena in the Holy Quran become evident by way of this letter. The special thing about 199 is that it is the 46th prime number in universe. Prime numbers are building blocks of the Holy Quran (Search Wikipedia for "Prime number" for more information).

- Some chapters of the Holy Quran are initiated by mysterious strings of letters, such as A, L, M or E, S. These letters convey no semantic meaning and no one is 100% sure what is the ultimate purpose of these letters but many researchers maintain that these are challenging keys that hide numeric systems & phenomena that prove the Divine origin of this Book. There are 29 Quranic initials (14 unique ones - i.e. repeated excluded) which are made of 14 unique letters out of the 28 letters in Arabic.

- Here are the letters making the word "Human" along with a number representing how many times each letter appears among (within) the 29 mysterious initials:

A - 13
L - 13
A - 13
N - 1
S - 5
N - 1

The sum is 46 : which is human chromosome number discovered in 1955 !

- Let's take each word of chapter 76 "Human" (243 words) and under each word we write how many Quranic initial letters it has (of the 14 letters). Then we put all values side by side right to left as is Arabic language:

The result is a huge number (278 digits) this number divides perfectly by 46 (human chromosome number)

- Now let's use a letter-value system (Based on the names of Allah - Jehovah God mentioned in the Holy Quran). We substitute each letter of chapter 76 "Human" with its numeric value according to this table. Then we put all values side by side right to left as is Arabic langiage:

The result is a huge number (1501 digits) this number divides perfectly by 46 (human chromosome number).

- Now let's take each letter of this same chapter and give it a numeric value according to how many times each letter appears among the mysterious initials (for example A gets 13, S gets 5 and so on..). A COMPLETELY different system than the one described above. Then we put all values side by side right to left as is Arabic langiage:

The result is a huge number (1429 digits) this number divides perfectly by 23 (human haploid chromosome number). it divides also by:

29 (which is the number of Quranic initials)
31 (the 31st composite number in universe is 46)
83 (this is the 23rd prime number in universe)

- This is a very recent discovery. Calculating how many times each letter of the 14 mysterious letters appears in chapter 76 "Human", making squares of these numbers (number of occurrences) & summing up all squares we get:

79879 which is 23 x 23 x 151 (pay attention to 23 squared) !!

That's not all. Here's sum of squares set (a, b, c, d):

253 which is 23 x 11
115 which is 23 x 5
46 which is 23 x 2
23 which is 23 x 1

The sum of the factors multiplied by 23 is the key miracle number in The Quran and The Bible, number 19 !!

The sum of the serial positions of the factors of 798879 is 54 which is 27 x 2. Word "Human" appears 27 times in the Quran in Mansoob form and 27 times in Marfooa' form (grammatical forms - object or subject form of word)

- The sum of the serial positions of the factors of the number corresponding to the other 14 non Quranic initial letters is 253 which is 23 x 11 (23 is human haploid chromosome number). The number is 9498.

Cannot you see that this Book is a revelation of the all knowing God?! I am not expecting you to become Muslims but I hope that some of you will start considering the possibility of God and ultimately, perhaps, start believing truly in God (Whether you're Christian or Jew or Muslim).

I can see the book is the work of men and pretty stupid men at that. Its not even worthy of serious consideration. About on par with the book of mormon and dianetics.

I can see the book is the work of men and pretty stupid men at that. Its not even worthy of serious consideration. About on par with the book of mormon and dianetics.

I totally disagree!

I believe that every single letter of the Holy Quran is written down by the knowledge and the goals of God. All numbers put aside, it's an incredibly beautiful piece of literature.

Here I will present some simple and not so complicated mathematical phenomena, again from chapter 76 "Human:

- The first letter in this chapter is "Ha" and the 23rd letter is also "Ha".

- At the same time, the last letter is "Alef" and the 23rd letter from back (end of chapter) is also "Alef". Letters match at key position 23 !

- I have mentioned earlier that letter "Alef" is key letter in Quranic wonders. This letter appears 199 times in this chapter and number 199 is the 46th prime number in universe. Humans have 46 chromosomes (or 23 pairs).

- The 46th letter is this chapter is "Alef": Which is the last letter of the word "K'lqna" (Created) in the phrase: "We have created Man.." i.e. it's the letter right before the second & last "Alansn" (Human, Man) in chapter.

- At the same time, the 46th letter from the end of this chapter is also "Alef": Which is the last letter of the word "A'lema" (All-knowing) in the phrase: ".. Allah is All-Knowing, Wise".

- The 46th letter form the beginning of this chapter, letter "Alef in word (Created)", is the 9th Alef letter from the beginning of this chapter. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes and the 9th prime number in universe is 23 !

- At the same time, the 46th letter form the end of this chapter, letter "Alef in word (All-Knowing)" is the 9th Alef letter from the end of this chapter !

- Pay attention how the letter at key positions, 46 from start and back, relates in wonderful ways to the contextual meaning (Creation and unlimited knowledge) !!

- Meanwhile, the 46th letter form the beginning of this chapter, letter "Alef in word (Created)", is the 23th letter of the 4 letters making the word "Alansn" (Human) from the beginning of the chapter! (Letters: Alef, Lam, Noon & Sin)

All of these phenomena and many more are seen in EXACTLY the one chapter of the Holy Quran named "Human".

This chapter was revealed 1430 years ago and human chromosome number was discovered in the year 1955.

William Shakespeare was 46 years old when the King James Version of the Bible was written. The 46th word from the front is 'shake' and the 46th from the back is 'spear'.

It's monkeys on a typewriter - lengthy works almost always create these seemingly meaningful patterns.

Is that true?
I will, from now on, praise William Shake Spear as teh God of humans.
God does refer to himself as "I Am" does he not?

Will I Am?

Cannot you see that this Book is a revelation of the all knowing God?! I am not expecting you to become Muslims but I hope that some of you will start considering the possibility of God and ultimately, perhaps, start believing truly in God (Whether you're Christian or Jew or Muslim).

I can see that you picked a bunch of numbers, did a bunch of summing, squaring, concatenating, factoring, serial positioning, and so on and so forth, and chose to present those results which have 23 and 46 pop up a few times (considering 1 in every 23 numbers will be divisible by 23, and 1 in every 46 will be divisible by 46, that leaves you lots of options to pick and choose from doesn't it?). You then decided that the numbers 23 and 46 could only possibly refer to diploid and haploid number in human beings (since people with chromosome disorders don't count as humans I guess), since the chapter in which you're claiming to draw most of these numbers is titled "Human".

So I see what you've done, and I ask how you would demonstrate that such coincidences can't be found by other people using other methods and other books. What's the probability of me picking a large book of similar size to the Quran, choosing and playing with numbers in the same fashion as you do, and not finding my own results to be as satisfying as you claim to find yours? Got any way of calculating that, exactly? On the other hand, the probability of you predicting something complicated and revolutionary about science that wasn't already known is nearly zero, unless you truly were on to something worthwhile and weren't just randomly mixing and matching numbers to get what you like.

I can see that you picked a bunch of numbers, did a bunch of summing, squaring, concatenating, factoring, serial positioning, and so on and so forth, and chose to present those results which have 23 and 46 pop up a few times (considering 1 in every 23 numbers will be divisible by 23, and 1 in every 46 will be divisible by 46, that leaves you lots of options to pick and choose from doesn't it?). You then decided that the numbers 23 and 46 could only possibly refer to diploid and haploid number in human beings (since people with chromosome disorders don't count as humans I guess), since the chapter in which you're claiming to draw most of these numbers is titled "Human".

That's not the case at all. It would have taken me ages to find all those numbers. I just get ideas about how to approach the text and right there I find the stunning numbers! It's part due to my astonishment regarding the density of such interesting phenomena in the Quranic text that I share these facts here!

Please consider these additional facts that can be seen in chapter 76 "Human":

- The number of words from chapters beginning up to the first word of God - Allah - الله in verse number 6 is 46 words.

- The number of letters from chapters beginning up to the first word of God - Allah - الله in verse number 6 is 199 letters. The number 199 is the 46th prime number in universe.

- The number of letters from chapters beginning up to the first word of God - Allah - الله in verse number 6, including omitted letters of the Othmany script, is 207 letters. The number 207 is equal to 23 x 9. The special thing about number 9 is that the 9th prime number in universe is the number 23.

- The number of letters from chapters beginning up to verse 6 (where the word God - Allah - الله appears for the first time) is 184 which is 46 x 4.

- Counting the letters from chapters beginning up to the first God - Allah - الله word shows that the first letter in the word "Human" (الانسن) letter Alef ا is repeated 46 times (which is equal to human diploid chromosome number) and that the last letter in the word "Human" (الانسن) letter Noon ن is repeated 23 times (which is equal to human haploid chromosome number).

And much more in the chapter that is named "Human" in the Holy Quran. This chapter has only 31 verses and 243 words.

46 is the 31st composite number in universe

Sum on squares of 243, a^2 + b^2 + c^2:
a = 9
b = 9
c = 9

23 is the 9th prime number in universe

Prime numbers & composite numbers are building blocks of the Holy Quran.

In fact, Allah - God says this in the Quran:

089.001
I swear by the daybreak,

089.002
And the ten nights,

089.003
And the even and the odd (Which some researchers now have started to consider it referring actually to composite & prime numbers)

089.004
And the night when it departs.

089.005
Truly in that there is an oath (evidence) for those who possess understanding.

Come on, I thought many of you here have great faith in mathematics?!

This is pseudomathmatics. Any text can be counted and it's numbers correlated to significant numbers. It means nothing.

That's not the case at all. It would have taken me ages to find all those numbers. I just get ideas about how to approach the text and right there I find the stunning numbers! It's part due to my astonishment regarding the density of such interesting phenomena in the Quranic text that I share these facts here!

I'd like to see how you can prove that other people wouldn't find equally interesting correlations with other numbers in the Quran, even in the same chapters as you're using. I don't know you, so I can't verify how long you spend looking for such relationships or what sort of software you might be using. If you could just pick up a book at random that I could be certain you'd never read before, and every number scheme you concocted ended up with 23 or 46 or something like this, then I'd be impressed. Also, I don't see how the definition of composites and prime numbers necessarily match with nature itself- some people define 1 to be prime, some define it as neither prime nor composite. Changing the scheme you choose here will ruin many of your results.


Come on, I thought many of you here have great faith in mathematics?!

Indeed, I do have great faith in mathematics. Not only is it logical and faithful to whatever axioms you start with, but when applied to real world problems, it has actual predictive power, whereas your numerology attempts have no such power. So given my great esteem for mathematics, it sure would be nice if you could calculate for us the actual probability that the coincidences you're finding are more than just coincidences. Any time now.

This is pseudomathmatics. Any text can be counted and it's numbers correlated to significant numbers. It means nothing.

The fact is that this text "The Holy Quran"

- has a chapter named "Human".

- The word "Human" appears 65 times in the Quran.

- The word "Quran" appears 65 times up to chapter "Human".

- 65 is the 46 composite number in universe. Humans have 46 chromosomes.

- The first verse of chapter "Human" is the 46th verse form Quran's beginning that contains the word "Human".

- This chapter is the 31st chapter that contains the word "Human" from Quran's beginning. Number 46 is the 31st composite number in universe.

- 31 verses containing the word "Human" before chapter number 46 of the Quran and 31 such verses after it too!

- 23 chapters containing the word "Human" before chapter number 46

- 46 words, 46 Alef letters, 23 Noon letters and 199 letters (in total) up to the first occurrence of the word "Allah" - God in chapter "Human" AT THE SAME TIME 199 Alef letters in whole chapter. Number 199 is the 46th prime number in universe.

I ask again what evidence makes you reject the idea of an all knowing God?! Isn't only because of the false conception that religion just puts restrictions on human life?!

What about the 5 huge numbers (+160 digit each) derived from the opening chapter of the Quran that all divide perfectly by key miracle number 19.

There is a chance that ALL of that is not due to chance at all !!!

There is a chance also that it's God's plan for some of you reading this post now to start seeing things the true and simple manner they are. Please open your eyes and hearts and give it all a deeper impartial thought.

Best wishes :)

All of the above is based on highly selective reading apparently.
What's the matter. Didn't things go too well on the other forum?
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=92171

Here's (http://www.ahmadiyya.org/islam/number.pdf) a counter.

All of the above is based on highly selective reading apparently.
What's the matter. didn't things go too well on the other forum?
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=92171

Here's (http://www.ahmadiyya.org/islam/number.pdf) a counter.

Nice work.

There is only one number that's important for Yosef. That number is zero. My name is mentioned zero times in the Quran. If I use Yosef's reasoning then this proves that there is no Allah or any God whatsoever. In fact there are quite a few names with zero mention in the Quran, further embellishing the fact that there is no god.

Take the word Allah for instance. If you let the two A's and two L's cancel each other out then you are left with an H. The H is the 8th letter in the alphabet...why is 8 that important you ask...well take a look at it....it's two 0's stacked one upon one another. Further proof that there is no Allah. How can you not see this?

Even the word GOD has what looks like a zero planted right in the middle of it. This cannot be ignored. Quran begins with the same mark but with a little squiggle attached. Translation: No god for you guys.

So based on the claims in Dywyddyr's article, not only is Yosef playing around with numbers and finding arbitrary ways of getting what he wants and finding significance in it, but he's not even being honest about the actual word counts in the Quran nor the way in which some words are counted and others excluded. Would you like to answer these claims, Yosef?

بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Benevolent.

The Quran starts with a chapter called The Key (الفاتحة) that consists of 7 verses, 29 words and 139 letters.


“In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Benevolent.” بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ .1

“All praise to Allah, Sustainer of all the worlds.” ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ ٱلْعَٰلَمِينَ .2

“The Merciful, the Benevolent.” ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيم .3

“Master of the Day of Judgment,” مَٰلِكِ يَوْمِ ٱلدِّينِ .4

“You alone we worship; You alone we ask for help.” إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ .5

“Guide us to the Right Path:” ٱهْدِنَا ٱلصِّرَٰطَ ٱلْمُسْتَقِيمَ .6

صِرَٰطَ ٱلَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ ٱلْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمَْوَلَا ٱلضَّآلِّين .7
“The path of those whom You have bestowed your bounties upon;
not of those who have brought upon themselves Your wrath,
nor of those who went astray.”


7, 29, and 139 are prime numbers.

Using our default decimal system their digit sums 7=7, 2+9=11, 1+3+9=13 are prime numbers and the sum of the digit sums 7+11+13 = 31 is a prime number
and left-to-right (729139) and right-to-left (139297) are prime numbers with of ocurse as we already seen a digit sum of 7+2+9+1+3+9 = 31.

Such primes that have prime digit sums in the decimal system are called Additive Primes.

Where else in the Quran can we find other primes?

Well when you know there is a verse that repeats so often that is is plainly asking to be counted, you must wonder if the number of repetitions is a prime or not and God behold! The Merciful chapter (الرحمن) has 31 repetitions of the following verse out of a total of 78:

فَبِأَىِّ ءَالَآءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
"What other bounties of your Sustainer do you still belie"

But wait a minute 31 is not an additive prime and 78 not even a prime, what are you talking about?

Well 31 was pointed to by The Key chapter above and 78 total verses - 31 merciful verses gives 47 a prime with a digit sums of 4+7=11, an additive prime indeed.

When we reach an additive prime we reach a result, but when it is simply a simple prime number like 31 then this search path is not finished yet.

So I looked at the 31 repetitions positions, i.e. what verse numbers do they have in the chapter? and here are the 31 positions:

13, 16, 18, 21, 23, 25, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 45,
47, 49, 51, 53, 55, 57, 59, 61, 63, 65, 67, 69, 71, 73, 75, 77

Hmmm, not primes what else can be done?

How about summing them up (as subtraction is useless for more than two numbers, so is division, while multiplication defeats the very purpose of primes)

And God behold! the sum of the verse numbers is 1433 which is prime number too and its digit sum 1+4+3+3=11 is a prime number too. An additive prime again :)

I was very happy chap for few days thinking I found a new way to dig deeper into the Quran.

First I made a new numerology system based on prime numbers where the 28 Arabic alphabet are assigned the first 28 prime numbers and calculated the total Primalogy value of the 139 letters of The Key chapter and once gain I got 8317 a prime with a prime digit sum (additive prime).

I applied the new Primalogy system to the second most revered chapter of the Quran #112 (Oneness of All = Al-Ikhlaas) with and without the prefix of bismAllah and incredibly found the total PV to be 4201 with bismAllah and 3167 without bismAllah. Both are additive prime numbers.

All details are in my booklet downloadable from
www .heliwave.com/Quran.and.2012.pdf

Then I checked the word "Allah" and got 269. An additive prime indeed.

Few days passed after reaching the beautiful 1433 and suddenly it hit me when I remember that the current Islamic year was the 1429 (in 2008). Now it is 1430 and mush easier to see the connection.

I was convinced that the number 1433 must be pointing to the Islamic year 1433 AH which is the Gregorian year 2012 AD, but only a handful of family members and friends took me seriously.

For few months I was made fun of until I God, Allah Almighty, gave me the proof I needed.

On a flight from China to the UAE, I was asking a Muslim to count the repeated verses of the Merciful chapter and instead he started counting all the words of the Merciful chapter. I corrected him and told him about 1433AH = 2012AD and end of story. Later as he everybody slept and in the middle of calmness, I realized that God showed me the man counting words for a reason so I started counting them myself.

The nearer I was to the end, the more eerie feeling I had that I am closing on 365 (to signify a year) but instead I got 355 (including the prefixed bismAllah).

I recounted and it was the same, 355.

Then suddenly I realized that we are dealing with Islamic years which are Lunar years and they are indeed 354 or 355 days years.

So I check my pocket PC Islamic Calendar (Hijri Calendar) for the year 1433AH and Glory to Allah, there will be 355 days in that year.

I cried a bit and then thanked Allah sincerely and realized the weight of what I have been shown.

EVERY word in the Merciful chapter maps directly to a day is the year 1433AH.

And as the repeated Merciful verse has 4 words (فَبِأَىِّ ءَالَآءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ)

Mapping each word of The Merciful chapter to each day of the Islamic year 1433AH shows that the above 31 verse repetitions map to 31 4-day periods between 7th Jan 2012 and 7th Nov 2012.

It is therefore expected that a 4-day event will repeat 31 times:

Quran 44:10 فَٱرْتَقِبْ يَوْمَ تَأْتِى ٱلسَّمَآءُ بِدُخَانٍۢ مُّبِينٍ
“Look out for a day when the sky brings a revealing smoke.”

Quran 44:15 إِنَّا كَاشِفُوا۟ ٱلْعَذَابِ قَلِيلًا ۚ إِنَّكُمْ عَآئِدُونَ
“We are lifting the punishment a little (due to your sincere pleas)
but you will soon be back to your old ways.”

Then a BIG event will take place because Allah continues:

Quran 44:16 يَوْمَ نَبْطِشُ ٱلْبَطْشَةَ ٱلْكُبْرَىٰٓ إِنَّا مُنتَقِمُونَ
“On a day when we seize you with a mighty onslaught;
We are taking revenge.”

The word “مُنتَقِمُونَ” or “taking revenge” can be seen as a revenge on those who belie the bounties (ءَالَآءِ) of their Sustainer.

Evidence that the sun will be blocked out suddenly:
Quran 36:37 وَءَايَةٌۭ لَّهُمُ ٱلَّيْلُ نَسْلَخُ مِنْهُ ٱلنَّهَارَ فَإِذَا هُم مُّظْلِمُونَ
“And a sign for them the night We peel daylight out of it and behold they are plunged into darkness.”

But only Allah Almighty knows and controls what happens and praise to Him He named the chapter The Merciful :)

So let's hope for the best.

Ali Adams
God > infinity

email: alipoland @yahoo.com
silverlight5 @hotmail.com

blog: aliadams .blog.com

website: www .heliwave.com

The incredible phenomena are mounting!

You remember this: 181838 ?! It is the sum of verse numbers of the verses having the word God up to chapter 76 "Human". This number divides perfectly by 46 (human chromosome number). In addition, the sum of the serial positions of its factors (among prime numbers) is 46.

I have also discovered that putting all those numbers side by side (right to left as always) gives a huge number (5664 digits) that divides by 199 !! 199 is the 46th prime number in universe. It's also the number of Alef letters in chapter 76 "Human" and there are 199 letters up to and before the first occurrence of the word Allah - God in this chapter!

5664 is 4665 reversed. Here we see 46 and 65. 65 is the 46th composite number in universe!

The word "Human" that I talked about earlier is ALANSN which means human as distinguished from animals, birds, fish etc... This word appears 65 times in the Holy Quran. At the same time, it appears one time in indefinite form & 46 times in definite form up to and before chapter 76 "Human".

With some basic knowledge of Arabic language you can verify this at:
Readverse - A joined work of Muslim, Jew & Christian Americans for Quran search at: http://www.readverse.com/Root_search_engines/080_quran_root_00.html?x=21&y=14

Bless you God!

Yosef, this is absurd. You could do the same with any similarly written text under the right conditions.

23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323223232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232322323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323223 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323223232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232322323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323223232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232 32323232323232323232323232323232323232322323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 23232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232232 323232323232323232323232323

Hmm, a sequence of only twos and threes.
There's no one here?

The incredible phenomena are mounting!

Wow! God is a trite math trick!!! It all makes sense now.

If you enter whole Mobby Dick into the computer, it will give you the structure of DNA, with all those coincidential numbers and everything. If you enter Don Quijote, you will get the corners of the Milky way. That's how those unbelievers keep discovering things. Not because they spent 100 years to discover DNA, after Origin of Species were first published. Not because they did research and experiments, just because they decoded the hints in those books.

Now there are faster computers, and they will extract superb knowledge on the edge of universe; has anybody named Shakespeare, bring him on!

If you enter whole Mobby Dick into the computer, it will give you the structure of DNA, with all those coincidential numbers and everything. If you enter Don Quijote, you will get the corners of the Milky way. That's how those unbelievers keep discovering things. Not because they spent 100 years to discover DNA, after Origin of Species were first published. Not because they did research and experiments, just because they decoded the hints in those books.

Now there are faster computers, and they will extract superb knowledge on the edge of universe; has anybody named Shakespeare, bring him on!

All marvelous creation is mere coincidences according to you. No surprise that you write this...

I want to inform you that the evidence for God's existence in the Holy Quran gets even more complex. It is simply irrefutable. What sort of 1024 core supercomputer can produce this:

http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/10/03/endless-miracle-of-the-first-chapter

Wow, someone wasted a lot of time on that bullshit.

Wow, someone wasted a lot of time on that bullshit.

It is the ultimate proof for God's existence :-)

All the letter value systems are established by careful independent analyses of unrelated linguists of the Quranic text and of Arabic language.

As I said earlier it is sad that all wonderful creation according to many people here is mere coincidences.

It is not the case. It is all calculated by the great mathematician Allah - Jehovah God. Can anyone ever, man or computer, produce a thing similar to what is presented in the above mentioned article ?! No, we all know that :-)


"(4) And the infidels say, "This Koran is a mere fraud of his own devising, and others have helped him with it, who had come hither by outrage and lie." (5) And they say, "Tales of the ancients that he hath put in writing! and they were dictated to him morn and even." (6) SAY: He hath sent it down who knoweth the secrets of the Heavens and of the Earth. He truly is the Gracious, the Merciful."
The Holy Quran - Criterion - 25

I have noticed that some people here are interested in the numbers that I present so here is more:
...

I got a number for you - zero.

As in this has zero logic in it
this has zero science in it
this has zero relevance.

Have a good day.

It is the ultimate proof for God's existence :-)

All the letter value systems are established by careful independent analyses of unrelated linguists of the Quranic text and of Arabic language.

As I said earlier it is sad that all wonderful creation according to many people here is mere coincidences.

It is not the case. It is all calculated by the great mathematician Allah - Jehovah God. Can anyone ever, man or computer, produce a thing similar to what is presented in the above mentioned article ?! No, we all know that :-)


"(4) And the infidels say, "This Koran is a mere fraud of his own devising, and others have helped him with it, who had come hither by outrage and lie." (5) And they say, "Tales of the ancients that he hath put in writing! and they were dictated to him morn and even." (6) SAY: He hath sent it down who knoweth the secrets of the Heavens and of the Earth. He truly is the Gracious, the Merciful."
The Holy Quran - Criterion - 25

Hey Yosef, welcome back! Last we left off, Dywyddyr posted this link (http://www.ahmadiyya.org/islam/number.pdf), and then sadly you vanished from the surface of the Earth before getting a chance to reply. By some divine miracle, you finally found your way back though- so I assume you must have some commentary you want to share with us about Dywyddyr's attempted rebuttal. What say you?

The fact is, such coincidences can be found in other, random, even non-Islamic texts (http://www.islam-watch.org/Amarkhan/Miracles-of-Quran-Exposed.htm#23):




بسم الله الخَبِيث الوَحْشِيّ

Translation: In the name of Allah, the Evil, the Savage

Total ANV (Arabic Numerical Value) - 1666

Fact 1: 19 letters - 19 = 19 x 1

Fact 2: Sum of Individual ANV digits (1666) = 1 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 19

Fact 3: One verse, ANV - 1 1666 = 19 x 614

Fact 4: Sequence number, Word Size - 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6 = 19 x 19 x 36686

Fact 5: Sequence number, Local letter number, Individual ANV Value - 1 1 2 2 60 3 40 2 1 1 2 30 3 30 4 5 3 1 1 2 30 3 600 4 2 5 10 6 500 4 1 1 2 30 3 6 4 8 5 300 6 10 = 19 x 59084389584858068659 53279136864479289495 327913939631900

Fact 6: Sequence number, Cumulative number of letters - 1 3 2 7 3 13 4 19 = 19 x 69858601

Fact 7: Conjoined letter numbers, added - 150426287722 = 19 x 7917173038

Fact 8: Letter number, Sequence number - 1231 45672 89101112133 1415161718194 = 19 x 64813512047900590174 42903248326

Fact 9: Num Words, Num letters, Total ANV - 4191666 = 19 x 220614

Fact 10: 1 sentence, 19 letters, lengths of words - 1193466 = 19 x 19 x 19 x 174

Fact 11: Sequence number, Word Size, Word ANV - 1 3 102 2 4 66 3 6 1143 4 6 355 = 19 x 689591928216544545

Fact 12: Sequence number, Word Size, Word ANV Series - 1 3 26040 2 4 130305 3 6 130600210500 4 6 1306830010 = 19 x 69791591647529137529 47479210769108857900

Fact 13: Sequence number, Word Size, Individual ANV Value - 1 3 2 60 40 2 4 1 30 30 5 3 6 1 30 600 2 10 500 4 6 1 30 6 8 300 10 = 19 x 69791591647529137529 47479210769108857900

Fact 14: Sequence number, Word ANV Series, Letter number - 1 26040 123 2 130305 4567 3 130600210500 8910111213 4 1306830010 141516171819 = 19 x 66336906954226602985 85821063710573211111 64954246473737586927 2201

Fact 15: Sequence number, Cumulative number letters, Word ANV - 1 3 102 2 7 66 3 13 1143 4 19 355 = 19 x 68959350691112811545

Fact 16: Sequence number, First&Last ANV Values, Local letter number - 1 42 1 2 3 2 6 1 2 3 4 3 501 1 2 3 4 5 6 4 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 19 x 74801716439131638076 653217024

Fact 17: Sequence number, Local letter number, Word ANV Series - 1 1 2 3 26040 2 1 2 3 4 130305 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 130600210500 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 1306830010 = 19 x 59118968532811212133 22287164768432131600 649769108857900

Fact 18: Sequence number, Local letter number, Individual ANV Value - 1 1 2 2 60 3 40 2 1 1 2 30 3 30 4 5 3 1 1 2 30 3 600 4 2 5 10 6 500 4 1 1 2 30 3 6 4 8 5 300 6 10 = 19 x 59084389584858068659 53279136864479289495 327913939631900

Fact 19: One verse, ANV, 19 characters - 1 1666 19 = 19 x 61401

As we can see, 19 miracles have been found about this new bismillah "In the name of Allah, the Evil, the Savage".






More examples

Here is another 'miraculous' Arabic phrase:

Translation: The Pig, the Great, the Handsome

8 facts were found in the preliminary analysis about this phrase:

Fact 1 : 19 letters - 19 = 19 x 1

Fact 2 : Individual ANV, letter number - 11 302 6003 504 75 106 2007 18 309 7010 90011 1012 4013 114 3015 316 4017 1018 3019 = 19 x 59487370265658453687 99110368994742684863 22691737648231668957 001

Fact 3 : Individual ANV, letter number, Sequence number - 1 1 30 2 600 3 50 4 7 5 10 6 200 7 1 1 8 30 9 70 10 900 11 10 12 40 13 2 1 14 30 15 3 16 40 17 10 18 30 19 3 = 19 x 59487370265658453687 95700510583684794802 11221654218587579847 464747

Fact 4 : Sequence number, Word Size, Cumulative number letters - 1 7 7 2 6 13 3 6 19 = 19 x 932954401

Fact 5 : Sequence number, Word ANV Series, Cumulative ANV - 1 13060050710200 898 2 130709001040 1949 3 1303401030 2063 = 19 x 59505289847474156954 24784216001025954228 42647477

Fact 6 : Sequence number, Cumulative number letters, Local letter number - 1 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 2 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 3 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 19 x 90123456427959713852 17024

Fact 7 : Sequence number, First&Last ANV Values, Cumulative ANV - 1 201 898 2 41 1949 3 31 2063 = 19 x 6325780216815437477

Fact 8 : Sequence number, Individual ANV Value, Cumulative ANV - 1 1 30 600 50 7 10 200 8982 1 30 70 900 10 40 19493 1 30 3 40 10 30 2063 = 19 x 59505289847474156954 24784216001025954228 42647477





As we can see this phrase The Pig, the Great, the Handsome (compare to In the name of Allah, the beneficient, the merciful) is also miraculous and we have not even tried other combinations of words and calculations...





Here are some english phrases which also show miracles and are thus truthful by Islamic standards:

"Islam is not from God":

IANVAdd: 209 = 19 x 11

"Allah is an imagination of the mind of Muhammad"

IANV = 378

PNV = 180

378 180 = 99 x 3820

378 - 180 = 198 = 99 x 2

3+7+8= 18 = 9 + 9

1+8+0 = 9

99 is 9 written twice




Muslim phrase: "Ninety-Nine beautiful Names of Allah"

IANV= 333

PNV = 135

333135 = 99 x 3365

333 - 135 = 198 = 99 x 2

3+3+3 = 9

1+5+3 = 9

99.




Anti-Islamic phrase: "Ninety-Nine Nasty Names of Allah"

IANV= 315

PNV = 117

315117 = 99 x 3183

315 - 117 = 198 = 99 x 2

3+1+5 = 9

1+1+7 = 9

99.






Arabic: Allah Al-Moqoof (Lie)

ANV's: 66 + 257 = 323 = 19 x 17.0000

257-66=191

Arabic: Al Quran Al-Mukr(Deception) Al-Moqoof (lie)

ANV's combined: 383 + 291 + 257 = 931 = 19 x 49.0000

257 383 291 = 19 x 13546489.0000

931-257 = 674

931-383 = 548

931-291 = 640

674 548 640 = 19 x 35502560.0000





"Allah is not a God"

PNVAdd: 57 = 19 x 3

"Nineteen is not a miracle"

PNVadd: 99 = 99 x 1

"Muhammad was a very evil person"

IANVadd: 323 = 17 x 19

"There is no Allah"

PNV Add: 66

Same as ANV for 'Allah'

"One hundred and fourteen phony nasty chapters of Quran"

PNVAdd: 228 = 19 x 12

IANVAdd: 570 = 19 x 30

PNVadd: 228 = 114 x 2

"Allah is a false God, a figment of Mohammed's imagination. God may exist, but He is not any god mentioned in any religion"

PNVAdd: 456 = 19 x 24

PNVadd: 456 = 114 x 4

this is all interesting reading..(considering i am bad with numbers..)..

but god is lost in it..that is Not proof..that is just mathmatical trivia..granted pretty cool coincidence..

god may have had a hand in it..but it is not proof..
to have proof in god would invalidate god..
faith is the hardest thing to learn..
with proof of god there would be no need for faith..
if it helps you find god then call it from god...we need all the clues we can get.
otherwise is is just trivia...

Some claim landing on moon was a hoax by the US but yet The Quran testifies that the US and NASA are right!

Where does the Quran say that the moon landing happened?

Where does the Quran say that the moon landing happened?

um..on the moon maybe..:D

I knew somebody would post something like that.

I meant: where in the Quran can I find the verse that says that NASA will land a man on the moon?

@spidergoat

I was concerned for a while that you personally have "discovered" this "interesting" sentence, but it looks like you have pasted it from some site.

Regarding the twisted "verse":

a. No one know hows many sentences they have tried before finding this one. The original BismAllah is not like any other verse. It is the verse that appears most number of times in the Holy Quran. It is the verse that starts the Quran and it is the one that we read before reading anything in the Quran. We use it also in many contexts in daily life (for example before doing something that involves risk - such as dealing with warm water).

b. The Quran's verse calls by the merciful names of God, but the twisted one says: In the name of Allah, the Evil, the Savage. Thanks God, His words are true and He is the merciful Lord of all creation. He says that at the time He had created heavens and earth He wrote in the Book by His side that His Mercy exceeds His Anger.

c. Some facts presented under the twisted verse are duplicates (mentioned two times).

d. Many phenomena regarding the twisted verse are shared with BismAllah since both have 19 letters, 4 words and have same letter on word distribution.

e. Some facts under the twisted verse are not interesting since they involve unnatural manner of representing the false sentence as under fact no. 14. The ones mentioned regarding the original BismAllah are far more interesting since they represent the letters in logical manners: ways that are sound.

The article regarding the original BismAllah can be found here, please compare:
http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/02/11/miracle-of-the-opening-verse

f. there is no any phenomenon described under the twisted verse that involves representing all the 19 letters serially 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 .. 19. In totality, this sentence is false.

g. Who wrote this sentence ?! Who has it been revealed to?! Hundreds of millions around the world believe that The Quran was revealed to Muhammed of the Family of Bni Hashim of Quraysh. Everything points to this fact. The Quran is word of God while that sentence is a saying of a coward.

Much can be said in this context but I would propose that the miracles of the opening chapter as a whole (139 letters) are seriously irrefutable.

http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/10/03/endless-miracle-of-the-first-chapter

I knew somebody would post something like that.

I meant: where in the Quran can I find the verse that says that NASA will land a man on the moon?

Have a look at this page for a simple Quranic fact and answer:

http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/02/24/landing-on-moon

I knew somebody would post something like that.

I meant: where in the Quran can I find the verse that says that NASA will land a man on the moon?

Koran (9:11) --

For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle, and the Eagle would fly on high and speak of the son of Arabia's abominable Works of Mad Desire.

a clear reference to the
Apollo 11 Mission

Mission Control: 30 seconds [of fuel remaining].

Armstrong: Forward drift?

Aldrin: Yes. Okay. Contact light. OK, engine stop.

Armstrong: Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed.

Mission Control: Roger, Tranquility. We copy you on the ground. You got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathing again. Thanks a lot.

Have a look at this page for a simple Quranic fact and answer:

http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/02/24/landing-on-moon

From your link:


Man landend on moon and brought lunar surface samples back to earth in 1969. The vehicle Eagle left lunar surface on 21. July 1969 at 17:54:01 UTC. This coressponds to the 6th of Jamaadah al Awal (6th month) year 1389 Hijri (to migration pf the Prophet from Mecca to Madina) which means landing on Moon occured in the year that completes 1390 years to Hijra according to Islamic calendar. This is the only verse in the Quran that says anything about moon splitting. The verb Inshaqa (split) (إنشق) is used in other contexts in the Holy Quran to refer to splitting of earth as by water falling from the sky and making rivers. This verse is the 1390th verse from the end of the Quran, in other words, from this verse to the end of the Quran there are exactly 1389 verses. 1389 verses from this verse Quran ends, and 1389 years from Quran revelation, man would land on moon and bring, by his hands, lunar soil back to earth.

And to increase our confidence let us consider what God says right after this verse:

:confused:

Captain Kremmen:


Koran (9:11) --

For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle, and the Eagle would fly on high and speak of the son of Arabia's abominable Works of Mad Desire.

I can't see anything about the Moon there.



Yosef:


Have a look at this page for a simple Quranic fact and answer:

http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/02/24/landing-on-moon

I looked. It says:

"The Hour has come closer, and the moon has split"

There's no mention of people flying to the Moon. There's no mention of people collecting moon rocks. There's no mention of NASA or America. There's no mention of Apollo (either the god or the mission).

The mystical numerical analysis is the same nonsense as found elsewhere in that web site. It's looking for patterns where there are none. I could find similar patterns in any book you care to name.

At the end, we get this:


In addition, the verse part "The hour and the moon has split" has a total gematrical value of 1390.

This arbitrarily ignores the words "has come closer". Those words presumably were not counted when the mystical number was calculated. Why not?

Have a look at this page for a simple Quranic fact and answer:

http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/02/24/landing-on-moon

"The Hour has come closer, and the moon has split"

" 2. But whenever they see a miracle they turn aside and say, This is well-devised magic. 3. And they have treated the prophets as impostors, and follow their own lusts; but everything is unalterably fixed. 4. A message of prohibition had come to them - 5. Consummate wisdom - but warners profit them not."

Well that does it for me, I'm converting...

:shrug:

This arbitrarily ignores the words "has come closer". Those words presumably were not counted when the mystical number was calculated. Why not?

I agree, this part needs more elaboration. Arabic is right to left so it is something like "Drawn closer 1390". But still, I think it's quite interesting that the only verse in the Holy Quran that talks about the moon getting split is the 1390 verse from back. 1390 years after revelation man landed on moon and dug its soil with hands.

As I said earlier, I think the really miraculous phenomena are those described under "Endless miracle of the first chapter". The language and content of the first chapter are really great and behind those 139 letters we find all those huge and interesting numbers. Please give it a good consideration :)

there is no proof of god there will never be any proof of god. tons of topic on this not a single 1 has a shred of tangable evidence, they should all pe named "proof of my sanity"? or my invisible friend LIVES!

@spidergoat


I was concerned for a while that you personally have "discovered" this "interesting" sentence, but it looks like you have pasted it from some site.
Of course, I don't have time to waste on assigning random numbers to texts and then extracting interesting relationships between them. It's the kind of exercise fit for schizophrenics and idiot savants.


Regarding the twisted "verse":

a. No one know hows many sentences they have tried before finding this one. The original BismAllah is not like any other verse. It is the verse that appears most number of times in the Holy Quran. It is the verse that starts the Quran and it is the one that we read before reading anything in the Quran. We use it also in many contexts in daily life (for example before doing something that involves risk - such as dealing with warm water).
No one knows if the exact texts presently considered the Quran were exactly what Mohammed wrote. In fact, the originals were lost and later reconstructed from various sources. Therefore any numbers one can get from them could have been invented by the later authors. Also, there is more than one version of the Quran.


b. The Quran's verse calls by the merciful names of God, but the twisted one says: In the name of Allah, the Evil, the Savage. Thanks God, His words are true and He is the merciful Lord of all creation. He says that at the time He had created heavens and earth He wrote in the Book by His side that His Mercy exceeds His Anger.
And Santa Claus says he travels around the world at midnight. The twisted verses contain the same invented numerical meanings as the "correct" ones.

Koran (9:11) --

For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle, and the Eagle would fly on high and speak of the son of Arabia's abominable Works of Mad Desire.

a clear reference to the
Apollo 11 Mission

Mission Control: 30 seconds [of fuel remaining].

Armstrong: Forward drift?

Aldrin: Yes. Okay. Contact light. OK, engine stop.

Armstrong: Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed.

Mission Control: Roger, Tranquility. We copy you on the ground. You got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathing again. Thanks a lot.

Well, this entire thing is nonsense.

Quran 9:11 reads:

"But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communication clear for a people who know."

No one knows if the exact texts presently considered the Quran were exactly what Mohammed wrote. In fact, the originals were lost and later reconstructed from various sources. Therefore any numbers one can get from them could have been invented by the later authors. Also, there is more than one version of the Quran.

The text is exactly the same as what have been recorded down in manuscripts 10 years, 200 years, 600 years and 1000 years after revelation. I have seen many images of them and they are available at museums, at King Fahd complex for printing of the Holy Quran and with many collectors all over the world.

This is the revealed Arabic text:


http://www.quranwonders.com/00/34/fati7a.jpg

It says:


""In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful; Praise be to God; the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds(a); The Compassionate, The Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we worship, and thine aid do we seek. Show us the straight way; The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, Those whose portion is not wrath, And who go not astray.""


This is what the opening chapter says. It has 139 Arabic letters and countless mathematical wonders. What can be seen, among other things, is that representing its letters by letter-values based on the work on independent researchers from all over the world provides 6 huge numbers (138 - 316 digit numbers) that all are divisible by 19.

All of this added to countless references to the number 46 when the Quran talks about human creation. Humans have 46 chromosomes. Different species have different number of chromosomes.

(a) (Worlds) The word Ala'lmin العلمين means everything that has been created by God or everything that is not God Himself (Angels, people, earth, sky etc..)

Any number can be connected to a wide variety of numbers found in science. It doesn't mean anything. For instance:

"spidergoat is god"
Assuming we assign numbers to the letters of the English alphabet sequentially...
19+16+9+4+5+18+7+15+1+20+9+19+7+15+4=168
1+6+8=15
On Chromosome 15, there is a gene called EYCL3, which codes for brown eyes.
My eyes are brown!

Wow.

the term twisted verses..sounds like someone rewrote it..but the context suggests something different..explain please

I believe he meant the article I quoted, where Quranic verses are twisted around to mean un-Islamic things, and their numerical values are the same. This wasn't mean to disparage the Quran, but to show that such correlations are not limited to holy texts.


a. No one know hows many sentences they have tried before finding this one.
No one knows how many sentences Mohammed tried before finding the ones he settled on.

The text is exactly the same as what have been recorded down in manuscripts 10 years, 200 years, 600 years and 1000 years after revelation. Can you tell me the day, month and year the Qur'an was finalized?

Thanks,
M

@spidergoat

I agree that it is theoretically possible to find other sentences with similar mathematical features. However, I maintain that the person who came with that unfortunate sentence tried many phrases before he came with those results. The opening verse of the Holy Quran is not like anything else. It initiates, almost, all chapters of the Holy Quran and it is the first one of the first chapter. There is no whatsoever account that the prophet peace be upon him sat down with his followers and wrote things based on any mathematical systems. They had no means at those times to validate whether a 62 digit number is divisible by 19. The case is that we are talking about 12 huge numbers that all are divisible by 19.

I appreciate the point you are making. I see what you mean but at the same time I say that the numbers derived from opening verse have some rationale and logic behind them. I looked at the phenomena described for the opening verse on one side of the screen and at the ones of the unfortunate sentence on the other side. What we really have are 10 logically derived numbers for the opening verse and 5 logically derived numbers for the unfortunate sentence (excluding repeated ones). Clearly, it was not simple for the author of the unfortunate sentence to find those 5 numbers and it requires huge amount of luck to get up to 10. It is possible but it requires huge amount of effort. As said earlier no one ever recorded that the prophet peace be upon him sat down and made any sort of calculations. Yet, for the most central verse of the Holy Quran, we find all those huge numbers that are divisible by number 19.

For those of you who wonder, the opening verse says: "In the name of Allah, The Compassionate, The Merciful" (a revelation of Allah - Jehovah God) and the unfortunate sentence says: "In the name of Allah, the Evil, the Savage" (unknown author).

@Michael

The Quran was revealed over a 23 lunar years period. It started on a night in the month of Ramadan in the year 610 A.D. For more information about the History of the Holy Quran please visit:
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=109649

Who wrote the Quran - interesting reading:
http://www.missionislam.org/quran/whowrote.htm


http://www.quranwonders.com/00/images/quran/2_186.gif

"And when my servants ask thee concerning me, then will I be nigh unto them. I will answer the cry of him that crieth, when he crieth unto me: but let them hearken unto me, and believe in me, that they may proceed aright."
The Quran - The Heifer - 2:186 (verse in image above)

It's not like anything else? Did you even look? I maintain that numerology is common, and it's common to find interesting things in various books of a radically different nature. Did Islamic scholars also apply their numerology to the works of Shakespeare? No, of course they didn't, because they are scientifically disingenuous. They only want to show their book is great.

From Dywyddyr's source:


The first example mentioned is that the word for ‘man’ (rajul) and
the word for ‘woman’ (amra’ or mar’a) both occur in the Quran
exactly 24 times each. The article claims this shows that man and
woman are equal. However, at least two Islamic websites inform us
that ‘man’ and ‘woman’ occur 23 times and they call this a miracle
because they say that this is also the number of “the chromosomes
from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo. The
total number of human chromosomes is 46; 23 each from the mother
and father”. Please refer to these two webpages:
www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_01.html
www.muhammedhasenoglu.com/miracles_quran.htm
So, whether these words occur 24 times or 23 times, it is called a
miracle in each case!

The whole argument is baseless in the first place. The number of
times the words ‘man’ and ‘woman’ occur has absolutely no relevance
to the teachings about men and women. Imagine that a book contains a
sentence saying: “A man is vastly superior to a woman. A man has all
rights, a woman has no rights at all.” The words ‘man’ and ‘woman’
both occur in this sentence the same number of times, but does that
mean this sentence is saying that men and women are equal?

...

Certainly they do occur 24 times each in this form but these words
occur in other forms as well. Also, there are other words in the Quran
for ‘man’ and ‘woman’ apart from these two. The word imra’a has a
masculine form mar’, and although it usually means human being (for
example in 8:24 “Allah comes in between a man and his heart”), there
are cases where mar’ means specifically a male. These are:
1. “between a man and his wife”, 2:102.
2. “If a man dies who has no son”, 4:176.
3. “your father was not a wicked man”, 19:28.
4. “The day when a man flees from his brother”, 80:34.
So why is this word not counted as an occurrence of ‘man’? It is
most strange that they count the word imra’a for ‘woman’ and yet they
do not count its masculine form (mar’) for ‘man’, when this form, on
four occasions, can only mean a male human being.
Plurals are also not counted by them. Hence the words rijāl (men)
and nisā’ (women), occurring so frequently, are not included despite
their usage in fundamental verses like 4:1 about men and women. The
words rajul and imra’a also occur in dual forms rajulān (2:282, 5:23,
16:76, 18:32, 28:15) and imra’atān (2:282, 28:23) meaning ‘two men’
or ‘two women’. They do not count these dual forms. But,
interestingly, if they did include them then the question would arise
whether each of these is to be counted as one occurrence or as two
occurrences because the word means ‘two’, men or women!

I hate having to post this information, but I'm not going to sit here and watch it be deliberately ignored while Yosef gets to preach on as he pleases. Dywyddyr provided this link (http://www.ahmadiyya.org/islam/number.pdf), I asked for a rebuttal, but instead Yosef conveniently vanished back into the inky black void, waiting until the naysayers moved on and he could come back to repeat the same falsehoods some more. If you have to cheat to make your point, you don't have much of a point to make.

@Michael

The Quran was revealed over a 23 lunar years period. It started on a night in the month of Ramadan in the year 610 A.D. For more information about the History of the Holy Quran please visit:
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=109649

Who wrote the Quran - interesting reading:
http://www.missionislam.org/quran/whowrote.htm


http://www.quranwonders.com/00/images/quran/2_186.gif

"And when my servants ask thee concerning me, then will I be nigh unto them. I will answer the cry of him that crieth, when he crieth unto me: but let them hearken unto me, and believe in me, that they may proceed aright."
The Quran - The Heifer - 2:186 (verse in image above)Hi Yosef, thanks for the links. I looked on them but I can not find the day, month and year that the Qur'an was completed (I mean completely finished as in the form it is in today).

Could you post up that information for me? I think it would be useful to know exactly when the Qur'an was completed.

If you could just post of that very simple information I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Michael

From Dywyddyr's source:
I hate having to post this information, but I'm not going to sit here and watch it be deliberately ignored while Yosef gets to preach on as he pleases. Dywyddyr provided this link (http://www.ahmadiyya.org/islam/number.pdf), I asked for a rebuttal, but instead Yosef conveniently vanished back into the inky black void, waiting until the naysayers moved on and he could come back to repeat the same falsehoods some more. If you have to cheat to make your point, you don't have much of a point to make.

Sorry mate I just replied to the other people here and did not say anything about that. I have looked couple of months ago at some claims that opposing words in the Quran appear equal times and I have looked at some of the claims mentioned in the link. Yes, it's true, not all information circulating around is accurate and some people are very enthusiastic about presenting miracles to a degree that don't conduct reliable and systematic research.

Leading researchers of the Holy Quran are well aware of that. One of the prominent people in this field who has written hundreds of articles about miracles of the Quran has written articles at his personal site to present the accurate information regarding word occurrences of the Quran. Some facts are not as accurate as some people would like them to be and this man along with people at the international committees for Quran studies write and talk about those unfortunate publications.

Still, there is much accurate and interesting information available on the web:
http://www.quranwonders.com
http://www.quranmiracles.com
http://kaheel7.com/eng/

@Michael

The Quran was assembled in final form by the third khalifa (Othman) after Muhammad's death (peace and blessings be upon him and upon his followers). The work finished by the end of the year 645 A.D. (start of the year 25 after Hijra - migration from mecca to madina). The arrangement of the verses and chapters was inspired by God (based on sayings of the prophet in his life time).

The Kahlifa asked that 6 authorized copies be distributed in the Islamic realm
and that all copies thereafter should be based on them. The Quran was referred to as the Othmaic Quran or Al moshaf al Imam and it is the one that we have in our hands today. This is an image of one of the original authorized copies:


http://www.quranwonders.com/00/images/quran/mushaf_othman_500.gif


God promises in the Holy Quran that He personally will preserve it (Al Hijr 15:9 ). This verse has 28 letters and has remarkable mathematical structure. In Islam, it is clear what is Quran (God's word) and what is prophet's sayings. No one ever has managed to introduce or take away a letter of what is the Quran!

All analyses of the text by modern computer software testify that the arrangement of the chapters and verses is divine in origin. Systems relating to odd/even and prime/composite numbers have been discovered, along with many features relating to scientific facts such as atom properties and chromosome numbers (Iron metal properties, human chromosome number (46), bee chromosome number (32), hoopoe chromosome number (126) etc...)

Hi Yosef, thanks for the links. I looked on them but I can not find the day, month and year that the Qur'an was completed (I mean completely finished as in the form it is in today).

Could you post up that information for me? I think it would be useful to know exactly when the Qur'an was completed.

If you could just post of that very simple information I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Michael


And that date will undoubtedly have major implications and proof embedded in it. :eek:

The work finished by the end of the year 645 A.D.Thanks Yosef.


While I have to say I'm surprised we didn't get the day and month, as I thought it would have been celebrated, but at least now we all know that the Qur'an was completed in 645AD. I've asked many Muslims this and you're the first person who finally knew what the year was. That's great. I almost think we need to make a sticky and post it on top :)


OK, another date I was wondering about. What day did Mohammad die?

@Michael

Muhammad peace and blessings be upon Him died in 632 AD. The Quran was assembled and arranged in the form that we have today by the year 645 AD. All the leafs / papers were gathered at that time along with many people who knew the Quran by heart and they put all the Quran together.

4 people were responsible for the work: 1) Zayd bin Thabit 2) Abd Allah bin Alzobayr 3) Sayed bin Alas 4) Abd Alrahman bin Alharith bin Hisham.

The placement of the verses and chapters in their places was inspired by God. Those people could not have known at that time that humans have 46 chromosomes (or that humans would land on moon in 1969 etc..).

Did you know that the Quran asks Muslims to believe in the Bible ?! And did you know that it asks Christians to live their lives by the Gospel ?!

Hindsight is 20/20.

Revisionist history is just that.

@Michael

Muhammad peace and blessings be upon Him died in 632 AD. The Quran was assembled and arranged in the form that we have today by the year 645 AD. All the leafs / papers were gathered at that time along with many people who knew the Quran by heart and they put all the Quran together.

4 people were responsible for the work: 1) Zayd bin Thabit 2) Abd Allah bin Alzobayr 3) Sayed bin Alas 4) Abd Alrahman bin Alharith bin Hisham.

The placement of the verses and chapters in their places was inspired by God. Those people could not have known at that time that humans have 46 chromosomes (or that humans would land on moon in 1969 etc..).

Did you know that the Quran asks Muslims to believe in the Bible ?! And did you know that it asks Christians to live their lives by the Gospel ?!That's very interesting. I've asked SAM and other Muslims when the Qur'an was written and who wrote it and they had absolutely no idea when it was written or who did the writing of it.



Did Mohammad know when he had finished his revelations? I mean, did he continue right up until his death bed, or, did he say something to the effect: this is the last revelation. Done. If so, do you know when the last of the revelations was reveled?

Why were there four people who ended up writing it down?

Why were there four people who ended up writing it down?

It's the quadrinity....Father, son, holy ghost & Mo

What? No Curly???

And what about Shep?

Sheesh!

And what about Shep?

Shemp is Jewish.

All the leafs / papers were gathered at that time along with many people who knew the Quran by heart and they put all the Quran together.
4 people were responsible for the work: 1) Zayd bin Thabit 2) Abd Allah bin Alzobayr 3) Sayed bin Alas 4) Abd Alrahman bin Alharith bin Hisham.

So this lullaby is written by humans...


The placement of the verses and chapters in their places was inspired by God.

Is there any evidence for the inspiration? Of course there is not... How can you show an evidence for an inspiration, while you can not show an evidence for God...


Those people could not have known at that time that humans have 46 chromosomes (or that humans would land on moon in 1969 etc..

Including your Allah, he had no clue how many chromosomes or what type of plans these apes had...

Summary: Utmost rubbish, pure nonsense, deep insult to human intelligence, and a place in the history next to the followers of Zeus and similar other crap.

shemp is jewish.

:)

.

Sorry mate I just replied to the other people here and did not say anything about that. I have looked couple of months ago at some claims that opposing words in the Quran appear equal times and I have looked at some of the claims mentioned in the link. Yes, it's true, not all information circulating around is accurate and some people are very enthusiastic about presenting miracles to a degree that don't conduct reliable and systematic research.

Leading researchers of the Holy Quran are well aware of that. One of the prominent people in this field who has written hundreds of articles about miracles of the Quran has written articles at his personal site to present the accurate information regarding word occurrences of the Quran. Some facts are not as accurate as some people would like them to be and this man along with people at the international committees for Quran studies write and talk about those unfortunate publications.

Still, there is much accurate and interesting information available on the web:
http://www.quranwonders.com
http://www.quranmiracles.com
http://kaheel7.com/eng/

Cool, I appreciate that you took time to address the issue.

You lost me at post 1 paragraph 1 which started "Blah blah blah Numerology".
This bit though:


God promises in the Holy Quran that He personally will preserve it (Al Hijr 15:9 )
So, we just have to destroy your original copies of the Quran manuscript, and that would be sufficient proof for Muslim's that their religion is fake/the god doesn't exist?

You lost me at post 1 paragraph 1 which started "Blah blah blah Numerology".
This bit though:

So, we just have to destroy your original copies of the Quran manuscript, and that would be sufficient proof for Muslim's that their religion is fake/the god doesn't exist?

Nah, "preserve" can have many meanings and I'm sure they would be invoked. And anyway where/which are the originals?

It's not like anything else? Did you even look? I maintain that numerology is common, and it's common to find interesting things in various books of a radically different nature. Did Islamic scholars also apply their numerology to the works of Shakespeare? No, of course they didn't, because they are scientifically disingenuous. They only want to show their book is great.Excellent point. I sometimes forget that people don't even notice these MASSIVE holes in their arguments. OTOH it seems so obvious to most people, you'd not even think to mention it, but, in actually, it really needs to be pointed out - repeatedly.