Could I get some understanding ( opinion ) on what is hell

Could I get some understanding ( opinion ) on what is hell

if i had to guess (which i do) i'd say it's a place that is void of the holy spirit entirely.

[QUOTE=Lori_7;2771707]if i had to guess (which i do) i'd say it's a place that is void of the holy spirit entirely.[/QUOTE



Which would mean a place void of good

an 'H' followed by the letter 'e' followed by two 'l's..

thats the best answer i can give..

http://www.sickjokes.net/index.php/cat18/hell_explained_by_a_chemistry_student

http://ekonefe.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/hell_froze_sign.jpg

I sent my soul through the invisible,
Some letters of that after-life to spell,
And by and by my soul did return,
And answered, 'I myself am Heaven and Hell.

-Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam.

Depends on who you ask. According to many down here in the Bible Belt:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm
http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

Depends on who you ask. According to many down here in the Bible Belt:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm
http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

Yep, agreed (in the bible belt too).

Also, it's a means for "God" to control others "Do as I say or else." Very kind of the Biblical God. So loving, so warm, so thoughtful :rolleyes:

an 'H' followed by the letter 'e' followed by two 'l's..

thats the best answer i can give..

What the H-e-double toothpicks kind of answer is that??? :p

Why people believe hell and heaven - surreal entities?
Feeling emptiness?
Feeling insecurity?
Afraid of death?

Why people believe hell and heaven - surreal entities?
Feeling emptiness?
Feeling insecurity?
Afraid of death?

no, because they're alive and aware of how good and how bad things can be.

Yep, agreed (in the bible belt too).

Also, it's a means for "God" to control others "Do as I say or else." Very kind of the Biblical God. So loving, so warm, so thoughtful :rolleyes:

it's also the state of humanity.

it's also the state of humanity.

metaphorically speaking- BUT it is not the same hell as the bible describes, which Christians believe to be a very real place as outlined in the scriptures at the links gmilam provided

this world is hell,
look around, many people are living in hell, suffering.

this world is hell,
look around, many people are living in hell, suffering.

I get and understand what you mean. All I was saying to Lori is that hell on earth and the hell as described in the Bible are 2 different things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1nJC4CXsok

Riding along in my automobile
My baby beside me at the wheel
I stole a kiss at the turn of a mile
My curiosity running wild
Crusin' and playin' the radio
With no particular place to go

Riding along in my automobile
I's anxious to tell her the way I feel
So I told her softly and sincere
And she leaned and whispered in my ear
Cuddlin' more and drivin' slow
With no particular place to go

No particular place to go
So we parked way out on ko-ko-mo
The night was young and the moon was gold
So we both decided to take a stroll
Can you image the way I felt
I couldn't unfasten her safety belt

Riding along in my calaboose
Still trying to get her belt a-loose
All the way home I held a grudge
For the safety belt that wouldn't budge
Crusin' and playing the radio
With no particular place to go

Hell is a place filled with people who think it's filled with the holy spirit. Like bible camp. Also, for entirely separate reasons, anywhere along the New Jersey turnpike.

I get and understand what you mean. All I was saying to Lori is that hell on earth and the hell as described in the Bible are 2 different things.

well, one thing we know for sure is that...it can always get worse. ;)

well, one thing we know for sure is that...it can always get worse. ;)

Always gotta get that last word in there don't ya? :p

I don't believe in the Biblical hell so :cool:

Always gotta get that last word in there don't ya? :p

I don't believe in the Biblical hell so :cool:

well denial ain't just a river in egypt cleopatra! :m:

well denial ain't just a river in egypt cleopatra! :m:

I ain't in denial and I ain't Cleopatra but I'll graciously accept the peace/leaf offering :D

I get and understand what you mean. All I was saying to Lori is that hell on earth and the hell as described in the Bible are 2 different things.

If one will preserve this body and hell will have a temperature higher then 100 C i will be cooked, if it will have higher then 240 C it will get burned .
Body wise to last long time in so called physical hell it have to be no higher then in a desert.
Hell must be some form of remorse for not doing the right thing when the opportunity was there .

If one will preserve this body and hell will have a temperature higher then 100 C i will be cooked, if it will have higher then 240 C it will get burned .
Body wise to last long time in so called physical hell it have to be no higher then in a desert.
Hell must be some form of remorse for not doing the right thing when the opportunity was there .

they have used parables to describe it as painful in a physical sense.

Remorse for not doing something right, like sending a kid to its room for doing something wrong? Little drastic if you ask me. :bugeye:

they have used parables to describe it as painful in a physical sense.

Remorse for not doing something right, like sending a kid to its room for doing something wrong? Little drastic if you ask me. :bugeye:

Not doing something right? Skip over to tiassa's thread about the "pastor" who raped and almost murdered a girl and wants mercy for entertaining demons.

What makes you think that evil people like this are going to somehow stop being evil when they pass on?

Do you realize that there can't be a heaven without a hell? I know math isn't your strong suit but it's simple extrapolation.

Not doing something right? Skip over to tiassa's thread about the "pastor" who raped and almost murdered a girl and wants mercy for entertaining demons.

What makes you think that evil people like this are going to somehow stop being evil when they pass on?

For starters I was commenting on the phrase yaracuy used of "Not doing something right". Did you know your God sets it up for people to go to Hell who happen to not believe that Jesus is his son? For a lack of belief- which I find rather drastic. I do not agree with behavior that this "pastor" did, wasn't even thinking of those people. I was thinking of those who go to Hell for not believing the way the Biblical God wants them to.



Do you realize that there can't be a heaven without a hell? I know math isn't your strong suit but it's simple extrapolation.

Yeah, like knowing the Bible by reading it isn't your strong suit :) But, anyway, come on ole wise one, why can't their be heaven without hell? Do you think someone being deaf makes me hear? :bugeye:

For starters I was commenting on the phrase yaracuy used of "Not doing something right". Did you know your God sets it up for people to go to Hell who happen to not believe that Jesus is his son? For a lack of belief- which I find rather drastic. I do not agree with behavior that this "pastor" did, wasn't even thinking of those people. I was thinking of those who go to Hell for not believing the way the Biblical God wants them to.



Yeah, like knowing the Bible by reading it isn't your strong suit :) But, anyway, come on ole wise one, why can't their be heaven without hell? Do you think someone being deaf makes me hear? :bugeye:

Let's assume god is right. I think that's a safe assumption don't you?

If you separate the good from the bad, there's gotta be somewhere for the bad to reside.

And what is your beef with Jesus anyway? The idea of a sinless existence bothers you? You like living in a world full of greed, lust, pride, envy, sloth, wrath...what's the other one vanity? What gives?

Do you realize that there can't be a heaven without a hell?
No hell in the old testament...even up to the rise of the Pharisees.

No hell in the old testament...even up to the rise of the Pharisees.

Well maybe that's what it took, some Pharisees. Ha!

What makes you think that evil people like this are going to somehow stop being evil when they pass on?
:rolleyes:

Right.
We have no record of anyone, ever, committing a crime after they've died. It's quite simple.

:rolleyes:

Right.
We have no record of anyone, ever, committing a crime after they've died. It's quite simple.

Well IMO it stands to reason that if there is an afterlife that people will be just as fucked up there as they are here if not more so.

Used to just be Hel. A place somewhere below the tree of life.

The Christians added an "L" so they could convert the Wotanic...

Hell is created to intimidate unbelievers.
It is also an object used by crazy fanatic believers to impose fear and suffering on their enemy.

Hell is created to intimidate unbelievers.
It is also an object used by crazy fanatic believers to impose fear and suffering on their enemy.

tell that to your dog while you're chopping off it's tail for your own vanity's sake.

Well maybe that's what it took, some Pharisees. Ha!
Not even the Pharisees believed in hell...nor the Sadducees.

The Greek new testament speaks only of Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna.

All Greek words, except Gehenna is derived from the Hebrew 'Gehinnom' and comes from the traditons of the Misnah.

Although its somewhat vague, Gehenna was apparently thought to exist ONLY after the resurrection of the dead.

Not even the Pharisees believed in hell...nor the Sadducees.

The Greek new testament speaks only of Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna.

All Greek words, except Gehenna is derived from the Hebrew 'Gehinnom' and comes from the traditons of the Misnah.

Although its somewhat vague, Gehenna was apparently thought to exist ONLY after the resurrection of the dead.

what does it matter what people believe in? any belief that has to do with the afterlife is pure speculation. now, it could be speculation based on what we know about the lives we lead here. and i would speculate that if there was a circumstance in which evil was not bridled by good, it would be pretty hellish. don't you think?

Well IMO it stands to reason that if there is an afterlife that people will be just as fucked up there as they are here if not more so.

Seems like that would only true for "Hell".

if there was a circumstance in which evil was not bridled by good, it would be pretty hellish. don't you think?
Perhaps this was the circumstance for millions of years before the arrival of civilised humans.

Animals spend most of their time tearing each other to pieces or running for their lives.

Some of them may look CUTE to us...but from their own point of view theres nothing cute about it.

Dolphins arent really smiling...:cool:

Depends on who you ask. According to many down here in the Bible Belt:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm
http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

You see I don't understand why they got to put Me and House in the same sentence when they talk about Jesus . What the fuck is that , is that some kind of joke ? Did I not get memo

Perhaps this was the circumstance for millions of years before the arrival of civilised humans.

Animals spend most of their time tearing each other to pieces or running for their lives.

Some of them may look CUTE to us...but from their own point of view theres nothing cute about it.

Dolphins arent really smiling...:cool:

Dude I was going to come all unglued on you , but I am practicing tolerance . Animals are not like that at all . When I go into the woods respect of environment is key . The Animals understand your every thought and react upon it . There are does and don't , boundaries you can cross and boundaries you can't . At least with out having consequences. When I go hunting the wilderness offers up my prey . Strange but true . What they as a species offers up I am satisfied to take . No more no less . Lets take fishing . I catch just enough fish to feed my Family of 3 a meal or 2, no more no less . Fish don't keep that long so the rule of thumb is good . The freshness to die for . The fish population is stable because of fish and games limits in this fashion of conservation . Now before all you expert foresters and Wildlife Biologist jump my ass " I know a lot more science goes into determining game limits . O.K. that said To the rest of You " The fish and game is about 2 years behind the curve . It takes 2 years to alter course for the new data year to year . Can you see what is happening . Yeah living in the past . So we have time delay in human group functioning. How do you over come that . We need scouts and we need to listen to scouts . O.K. that would help .

Perhaps this was the circumstance for millions of years before the arrival of civilised humans.

Animals spend most of their time tearing each other to pieces or running for their lives.

Some of them may look CUTE to us...but from their own point of view theres nothing cute about it.

Dolphins arent really smiling...:cool:

Are you saying that animals do good towards other animals and can make the decision to be "bad" not out of some necessity? Humans can do that but i never heard of that with animals.

"Hell is other people" - Jean-Paul Sartre

Actually dolphins spend a lot of time playing and having lots of sex.
There's no survival reason for for them to play in the bow waves of ships, but they do it all the time.

General rule of thumb, the smarter they are, the more time they spend playing.

My understanding is that hell is a really bad place where god sends people after they die, who have a different set of values and/or religion than you.

:rolleyes:

Right.
We have no record of anyone, ever, committing a crime after they've died. It's quite simple.

That is not true ! It is all about perception. So my relative Danial Greathouse he was convected of starting the Dunsmore wars in Delaware . After he was dead that is . He died of measles and became the scape goat after the fact . Before he died a guy name Cresop ( Potential Spelling error0) was to blame in a letter to President Jefferson ) Greathouse died of measles before the trial and the story changed to "Greathouse did it" real fast .
Scape goats pay big time cause they are the devil . Hell is to be a scape goat like the devil

That is not true !...
Scape goats pay big time cause they are the devil . Hell is to be a scape goat like the devil

Read what I wrote and then read your reply. :rolleyes:

Could I get some understanding ( opinion ) on what is hell

It's a fictional place that fictional deities send fictional souls to for the purpose of torturing them for some pre-determined or indeterminate amount of time.

Convicted of the crime post mortem perhaps?

yah, i think that was it.

Read what I wrote and then read your reply. :rolleyes:

Oh you mean like they die and then a month later they kill white people , but they don't do the killing until a month after there dead . I think Jesse James the out law Did or even Jesus . Maybe it was more of an Elvis is still alive thing. I think cult leaders vicariously kill after there dead, how bout that ? Hitler and white supremacy groups of the modern era. How bout that ? can I get a cheer for that? please please . O.K. stretching it I know . You can be such a downer sometimes . Take my buzz away . Now I got to go have another drink . Are you buying ?

Animals are not like that at all . When I go into the woods respect of environment is key. The Animals understand your every thought and react upon it . There are does and don't , boundaries you can cross and boundaries you can't . At least with out having consequences. When I go hunting the wilderness offers up my prey.
The wilderness offers you nothing and doesnt care if you respect it or not.

The wilderness has no consciousness...there is no entity making choices.

Remember that scene in Star Wars where Yoda responds to Luke, who is about to descend into the cave of dreams?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw4CfOrjLWY

"Only what you take with you."

And so it is with the natural world...the beauty and harmony you see is your own.

Are you saying that animals do good towards other animals and can make the decision to be "bad" not out of some necessity? Humans can do that but i never heard of that with animals.
How do we know if some advanced alien race might not think the same of us humans...that we have so little free will?

How do we know if some advanced alien race might not think the same of us humans...that we have so little free will?

I dont think that signifies freewill but simply they lack the ability.

I seriously doubt off earth species with the capability would think that.

"Only what you take with you."

And so it is with the natural world...the beauty and harmony you see is your own.

The force is strong with this one.

Let's assume god is right. I think that's a safe assumption don't you?

That depends on which God you are talking about. If you are talking about the one with the violent behaviors, the one who admits to lying, the one who will kill just because he gets angry or his wittle feelers hurt...then hell no, I could never assume a brutal narcissistic anything (human or god) is right for their behavior.



If you separate the good from the bad, there's gotta be somewhere for the bad to reside.

Oh, because the Biblical God isn't powerful enough to make it vanish? Hmmm...



And what is your beef with Jesus anyway? The idea of a sinless existence bothers you?

You call it sin. I don't believe in "sin" as the Bible describes. Do I see the lust, greed etc...sure.



You like living in a world full of greed, lust, pride, envy, sloth, wrath...what's the other one vanity? What gives?

No, of course not. However, some of those things that you mention the Biblical God exhibits...so I guess the fruit doesn't fall from from the tree, eh?

That depends on which God you are talking about. If you are talking about the one with the violent behaviors, the one who admits to lying, the one who will kill just because he gets angry or his wittle feelers hurt...then hell no, I could never assume a brutal narcissistic anything (human or god) is right for their behavior.

i'm talking about the god that exists. i suppose you could describe him in whatever fantastic way you'd like, since you'd be making it all up anyway. ;)




Oh, because the Biblical God isn't powerful enough to make it vanish? Hmmm...

well as long as people continue to desire it...would you like him to get rid of those people, because we're not talking about magic here heart, we're talking about the duality of law.




You call it sin. I don't believe in "sin" as the Bible describes. Do I see the lust, greed etc...sure.

so you're arguing over a label? a name to call something? why?




No, of course not. However, some of those things that you mention the Biblical God exhibits...so I guess the fruit doesn't fall from from the tree, eh?

how do you know about god heart? because someone beat you over the head with a book to try to scare you? i'm afraid to say it worked. :(

i'm talking about the god that exists. i suppose you could describe him in whatever fantastic way you'd like, since you'd be making it all up anyway. ;)

Oh, I'm sorry. Let me clarify. The description I had given was from the Bible. You can sprinkle whatever pixie dust you want to over those scriptures (even though you don't read them) and try very hard not to make him look like a dick or Jack the Ripper...but, I'm afraid it's still all very much clearly stated in black and white my friend. So please, if you want to talk about making up God and how he his....unless it matches according to the Bible, you ain't talking about the Biblical God.



well as long as people continue to desire it...would you like him to get rid of those people, because we're not talking about magic here heart, we're talking about the duality of law.

No, Lori, what we are talking about is the afterlife. According to the Bible it is the FLESH that is weak and that makes one sin. Once the flesh is gone it should free the spirit, correct? Otherwise, you'd have all kinds of sin in Heaven now, wouldn't you?



so you're arguing over a label? a name to call something? why?

Not that it matters, but because according to the Bible sin is something that sends people to hell. I don't believe in hell or a God barbaric enough to create it. If you do, then will you follow suit and torture your child for their life because they don't behave (submit to your control) as you'd like? I think the idea of "sin" as described in the Bible and its OVER-THE-TOP consequences is ludicrous at best.


how do you know about god heart? because someone beat you over the head with a book to try to scare you? i'm afraid to say it worked.

I know because I have read the Bible. Nobody had to beat me over the head with it. Anyone with two eyes can see. Open it up, read it sometime. However, I've given you loads of scriptures that you refuse to comment on or you will answer saying, "Well, God is a dick, and asshole" and all the many other ways you've described him, which really makes me wonder just why they heck you'd follow and serve and dedicate your life that-feeling the way you do.

it's a place of unimaginable and eternal torture. god puts unbelievers there for eternity. and sinners till they cleanse of sins. all after death of course.

Oh, I'm sorry. Let me clarify. The description I had given was from the Bible. You can sprinkle whatever pixie dust you want to over those scriptures (even though you don't read them) and try very hard not to make him look like a dick or Jack the Ripper...but, I'm afraid it's still all very much clearly stated in black and white my friend. So please, if you want to talk about making up God and how he his....unless it matches according to the Bible, you ain't talking about the Biblical God.



No, Lori, what we are talking about is the afterlife. According to the Bible it is the FLESH that is weak and that makes one sin. Once the flesh is gone it should free the spirit, correct? Otherwise, you'd have all kinds of sin in Heaven now, wouldn't you?



Not that it matters, but because according to the Bible sin is something that sends people to hell. I don't believe in hell or a God barbaric enough to create it. If you do, then will you follow suit and torture your child for their life because they don't behave (submit to your control) as you'd like? I think the idea of "sin" as described in the Bible and its OVER-THE-TOP consequences is ludicrous at best.



I know because I have read the Bible. Nobody had to beat me over the head with it. Anyone with two eyes can see. Open it up, read it sometime. However, I've given you loads of scriptures that you refuse to comment on or you will answer saying, "Well, God is a dick, and asshole" and all the many other ways you've described him, which really makes me wonder just why they heck you'd follow and serve and dedicate your life that-feeling the way you do.

hey heart, i realize you've got a fairly fluffy and happy existance going on right now but honestly, take an honest look at the world, and tell me, how in the hell could god NOT be a dick?

but god IS right.
and this world is not all there is.

you want to bitch about hell and judgement, when you see with your own eyes the evil atrocities that go on every day? why? why do you want either good consequences or no consequences to really really bad actions? why?

hey heart, i realize you've got a fairly fluffy and happy existance going on right now but honestly, take an honest look at the world, and tell me, how in the hell could god NOT be a dick?

I'm not talking about the world. I'm talking about the afterlife.


but god IS right.
and this world is not all there is.
The biblical god is right? Right to command soldiers to rape women, rip apart babies, strike people and kill them because he got angry or jealous and the list goes on and on and on (and yet you bitch when a preacher does it???)...IF that is your idea of right, honey you can keep it.


you want to bitch about hell and judgement, when you see with your own eyes the evil atrocities that go on every day? why? why do you want either good consequences or no consequences to really really bad actions? why?

Again, I'm talking about the afterlife. The flesh is gone then...so now what's your excuse?

I'm not talking about the world. I'm talking about the afterlife.

The biblical god is right? Right to command soldiers rape women, rip apart babies, strike people and kill them because he got angry or jealous and the list goes on and on and on...IF that is your idea of right, honey you can keep it.


Again, I'm talking about the afterlife. The flesh is gone then...so now what's your excuse?

so you think that everything that really does happen in this world, and who we really are in this world, is entirely irrelevant, and you would instead rather fantasize about your happy shmappy afterlife (which you really know nothing about)? do i have that straight?

so you think that everything that really does happen in this world, and who we really are in this world, is entirely irrelevant, and you would instead rather fantasize about your happy shmappy afterlife (which you really know nothing about)? do i have that straight?

Last I knew we were discussing the bible and the biblical god's actions- and now they are dropped, as usual.

Last I knew we were discussing the bible and the biblical god's actions- and now they are dropped, as usual.

Well I relate god to what I see around me in the real world every day and you want to talk about some fairy tale wishful thinking that relates to nothing we see or experience, but instead to the afterlife, which is something you can't possibly know anything about. (?)

According to the Bible it is the FLESH that is weak and that makes one sin. Once the flesh is gone it should free the spirit, correct?

Why then did God make FLESH...did he not see "that it was good"?

Thats what Carcano sees...in women...in particular.:cool:

Well I relate god to what I see around me in the real world every day and you want to talk about some fairy tale wishful thinking that relates to nothing we see or experience, but instead to the afterlife, which is something you can't possibly know anything about. (?)
Lori is like St. Paul...who did not need to meet Jesus in the flesh to experience his presence in every moment.

Well I relate god to what I see around me in the real world every day and you want to talk about some fairy tale wishful thinking that relates to nothing we see or experience, but instead to the afterlife, which is something you can't possibly know anything about. (?)

No, I am not wanting to talk about a fairytale wishful thinking, unless that's what you call the Bible. If that is the case, then very good for you. :)

No, I am not wanting to talk about a fairytale wishful thinking, unless that's what you call the Bible. If that is the case, then very good for you. :)

when i look at the bible, and i look at the world, they are the same.

Why then did God make FLESH...did he not see "that it was good"?

Thats what Carcano sees...in women...in particular.:cool:

LOL! Funny.

As to the the flesh part, yeah ya know....the Biblical God is weird that way. He sets man and woman up from the start, all so there could be the fall. [sarcasam] Yay God, good plan! [/sarcasm] *my best Dr Phil impersonation* What were you thinkin' God????

when i look at the bible, and i look at the world, they are the same.

What a cop out

As to the the flesh part, yeah ya know....the Biblical God is weird that way. He sets man and woman up from the start, all so there could be the fall. [sarcasam] Yay God, good plan! [/sarcasm] *my best Dr Phil impersonation* What were you thinkin' God????
This the central difference between the Hebrew paradigm and that of the Greeks...where even the Gods were ashamed of clothes.

What a cop out

it's not a cop out; it's the truth. you want some nicety nice fairy tale, and i'm sorry but take a look around. it just ain't happenin'.

This the central difference between the Hebrew paradigm and that of the Greeks...where even the Gods were ashamed of clothes.

well I was talking about what the Bible refers to as the flesh...that as long as we are in this body we will be sinners....we will be tempted to do things "not of God" lusting, being drunkards, gluttony, etc...yadda yadda *yawn* :)

well I was talking about what the Bible refers to as the flesh...that as long as we are in this body we will be sinners....we will be tempted to do things "not of God" lusting, being drunkards, gluttony, etc...yadda yadda *yawn* :)

so you think that you're spiritual nature is completely unrelated to your physical nature, and there's no reconciliation that can occur? that people who are kind and loving and gentle while alive, and other people who are serial killers and liars and warmongers and rapists while alive, all magically turn into virtually the same person after they die, and everybody goes to the nice-nice place?

it's not a cop out; it's the truth. you want some nicety nice fairy tale, and i'm sorry but take a look around. it just ain't happenin'.

Okay then, here is what I mean. Over the years I have given you numerous scriptures from the Bible. From the one book that you claim to be truthful- the book that you believe word for word. The book that you believe will open eyes and lead people to God. I show you horrible horrible things that the Biblical God did. You think nothing of them or make excuses, anything but ponder...hmmm maybe that isn't really cool for anyone to be doing, especially a God! No, no not you. THEN, you refuse to read it. You'd rather read the newspaper than to read the Bible. (That should be a clue to you right there). You can't explain away the brutality of God or any other f'd up thing he has done. You REFUSE to discuss and digest that. Instead you float around like a bumble bee and find your honey pot with what makes you feel comfortable (as opposed to those scriptures). THE SAME BLOODY THING YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF!!!

so you think that you're spiritual nature is completely unrelated to your physical nature, and there's no reconciliation that can occur? that people who are kind and loving and gentle while alive, and other people who are serial killers and liars and warmongers and rapists while alive, all magically turn into virtually the same person after they die, and everybody goes to the nice-nice place?

All I am saying to you is that according to the Book you swear by, that this book says the flesh is weak. That it is what leads us to sin. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo IF you aren't in this flesh...it only makes sense to me that we wouldn't have that problem. God never said that the spirit will lead us to sin. THE FLESH THE FLESH...read your Bible, will you?

Okay then, here is what I mean. Over the years I have given you numerous scriptures from the Bible. From the one book that you claim to be truthful- the book that you believe word for word. The book that you believe will open eyes and lead people to God. I show you horrible horrible things that the Biblical God did. You think nothing of them or make excuses, anything but ponder...hmmm maybe that isn't really cool for anyone to be doing, especially a God! No, no not you. THEN, you refuse to read it. You'd rather read the newspaper than to read the Bible. (That should be a clue to you right there). You can't explain away the brutality of God or any other f'd up thing he has done. You REFUSE to discuss and digest that. Instead you float around like a bumble bee and find your honey pot with what makes you feel comfortable (as opposed to those scriptures). THE SAME BLOODY THING YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF!!!

dude, wtf are you talking about? FOCUS...this is very easy...

take a look around. you see that things are as you say, "horrible horrible". every fucking day they are, yes. and there is a god. now what the fuck does that mean to you?

i don't read the bible every flippin' day or every sunday or whatever, like it's some ritual, no. but i have read the majority of it at one time or another. and i've read the newspaper too, and you know what? they sound an awful lot alike! :bugeye:

dude, wtf are you talking about? FOCUS...this is very easy...

take a look around. you see that things are as you say, "horrible horrible". every fucking day they are, yes. and there is a god. now what the fuck does that mean to you?

i don't read the bible every flippin' day or every sunday or whatever, like it's some ritual, no. but i have read the majority of it at one time or another. and i've read the newspaper too, and you know what? they sound an awful lot alike! :bugeye:

buzzzzzzzzzz buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

YOU focus. Focus on those scriptures. Ponder them. Come up with some heartfelt thoughtful pondered moments on why the heck you think it's okay to follow a baby killer

All I am saying to you is that according to the Book you swear by, that this book says the flesh is weak. That it is what leads us to sin. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo IF you aren't in this flesh...it only makes sense to me that we wouldn't have that problem. God never said that the spirit will lead us to sin. THE FLESH THE FLESH...read your Bible, will you?

the flesh may be weak or corrupt, but it is absolutely not invincible. that's actually the major tenet of the bible. that there is a reconciliation. that the holy spirit does a work in you. not while you're dead, but while you're alive.

you have to want it though. you have to ask for it, invite it, receive it, believe it. and i'm sorry but i don't think that people's desires in this regard are going to change all that much if at all just because they pass on into another realm. i don't see why you would. i also think it's funny that you're trying to base your argument on a book that you don't believe. you're a real piece of work you know? sheesh!

buzzzzzzzzzz buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

YOU focus. Focus on those scriptures. Ponder them. Come up with some heartfelt thoughtful pondered moments on why the heck you think it's okay to follow a baby killer

BECAUSE BABIES GET KILLED EVERY FUCKING DAY! :confused: FFS!

the flesh may be weak or corrupt, but it is absolutely not invincible. that's actually the major tenet of the bible. that there is a reconciliation. that the holy spirit does a work in you. not while you're dead, but while you're alive.

you have to want it though. you have to ask for it, invite it, receive it, believe it. and i'm sorry but i don't think that people's desires in this regard are going to change all that much if at all just because they pass on into another realm. i don't see why you would. i also think it's funny that you're trying to base your argument on a book that you don't believe. you're a real piece of work you know? sheesh!

Do you not see how retarded that is??????? First, once you lose the flesh you lose all the sins and temptations. SOOOOOOOO because that is out of the way, to JUDGE a person while they were IN THE FLESH and send them to hell because the biblical god gave them defective armor to begin with, is cruel, it's stupid, makes no sense other than God loves for people to suffer. He LOVES blood and isn't shy about using his power to off someone and then try to paint it all white. What a crock.

I am basing this on a book because that is what your faith is based upon. God doesn't go around in burning bushes every day. :rolleyes:

BECAUSE BABIES GET KILLED EVERY FUCKING DAY! :confused: FFS!

Please, I know your an intelligent woman. So really, try to LISTEN to what I'm saying instead of screaming away what I'm saying. Please?

A) I am talking about the stories in the Bible
B) God ordered this done. No natural causes. Yes, yes, I know nothing goes outside his will yadda yadda blow it out your nose-ola. What I'm talking about is when that book you say you believe is the end all tell all....describes and shares with us stories where God commanded women to be raped, babies to be slaughtered, animals, men etc....(He's no better than that priest Lori!???!) He COMMANDED it, Lori. Do you not see a difference if someone walked up and beat the shit out of you instead of someone accidentally getting scared and as a reflex punched you and said sorry? Follow the bouncing ball. Yes you can...I know you can do it.

All I am saying to you is that according to the Book you swear by, that this book says the flesh is weak. That it is what leads us to sin. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo IF you aren't in this flesh...it only makes sense to me that we wouldn't have that problem. God never said that the spirit will lead us to sin. THE FLESH THE FLESH...read your Bible, will you?

mental .....mind....think.....<:confused:> (self?)
emotional..heart...feel.......love
physical....body....know.....science
spiritual.....soul.....believe...religion

flesh speaks of body the physical side of our nature,what we know, what we can see,hear,feel, and taste, religion teaches that this state of being is only temporary,(hell,even science knows this part..) and that we should focus on
our spiritual state of being,(at cost of neglecting the others) science tends to focus on the physical(at same cost).

anyway..
my point?
grow up and get along!
both you two..

Please, I know your an intelligent woman. So really, try to LISTEN to what I'm saying instead of screaming away what I'm saying. Please?

A) I am talking about the stories in the Bible
B) God ordered this done. No natural causes. Yes, yes, I know nothing goes outside his will yadda yadda blow it out your nose-ola. What I'm talking about is when that book you say you believe is the end all tell all....describes and shares with us stories where God commanded women to be raped, babies to be slaughtered, animals, men etc....(He's no better than that priest Lori!???!) He COMMANDED it, Lori. Do you not see a difference if someone walked up and beat the shit out of you instead of someone accidentally getting scared and as a reflex punched you and said sorry? Follow the bouncing ball. Yes you can...I know you can do it.

i don't think anything happens outside god's authority and babies are killed every day, not of natural causes.

mental .....mind....think.....<:confused:> (self?)
emotional..heart...feel.......love
physical....body....know.....science
spiritual.....soul.....believe...religion

flesh speaks of body the physical side of our nature,what we know, what we can see,hear,feel, and taste, religion teaches that this state of being is only temporary,(hell,even science knows this part..) and that we should focus on
our spiritual state of being,(at cost of neglecting the others) science tends to focus on the physical(at same cost).

anyway..
my point?
grow up and get along!
both you two..

Again I am talking about what the Bible says about the flesh. I don't buy that BS but Lori should since she believes in the Bible so much.

I love lori like a sister....we do this all the time... I mean her no disrespect and vice versa.

i don't think anything happens outside god's authority and babies are killed every day, not of natural causes.

*downs a 5th of Scotch- okay not literally but if i could* LORIIIIIIII are you trying to be this way on purpose? :(

*downs a 5th of Scotch- okay not literally but if i could* LORIIIIIIII are you trying to be this way on purpose? :(

What, honest? Yeah.

http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell

Even when I was somewhat curious, I had trouble accepting the concept. As bad as I am, I don't believe I deserve such a fate. But there those who do. Wouldn't you agree?

What, honest? Yeah.

No. Acting is if you have no clue what I'm saying, purposely. Why? To drive me mad?

http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell

Even when I was somewhat curious, I had trouble accepting the concept. As bad as I am, I don't believe I deserve such a fate. But there those who do. Wouldn't you agree?

Could you clarify what do you mean by there are those who do? There are those who deserve such a fate or that there are those who believe that others deserve such a fate? Thanks.

No. Acting is if you have no clue what I'm saying, purposely. Why? To drive me mad?

i don't agree with you, and i honestly don't think the way you do. i'm not purposefully trying to antagonize you. the way you think about these things makes absolutely no sense to me, other than to conclude that you're entirely jaded, and you just can't see straight. i'm sorry; no offense.

http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell

Even when I was somewhat curious, I had trouble accepting the concept. As bad as I am, I don't believe I deserve such a fate. But there those who do. Wouldn't you agree?

i don't think that ultimately, people get what they deserve. i think that ultimately, people get what they desire, and what they believe in.

i don't agree with you, and i honestly don't think the way you do. i'm not purposefully trying to antagonize you. the way you think about these things makes absolutely no sense to me, other than to conclude that you're entirely jaded, and you just can't see straight. i'm sorry; no offense.

Lori, if I walked up and slapped you in the face then spit on you and told you to go to hell VS coming around the corner and you startling me and out of a reaction unintentionally hit you....would you see those both as equal? Because that's exactly how you expect others to view the Biblical God with him ordering soldiers to go and rape women and to kill children. If you think it's okay, then why are you so outraged over that priest doing what he did to that girl? They are no different.

Lori, if I walked up and slapped you in the face then spit on you and told you to go to hell VS coming around the corner and you startling me and out of a reaction unintentionally hit you....would you see those both as equal? Because that's exactly how you expect others to view the Biblical God with him ordering soldiers to go and rape women and to kill children. If you think it's okay, then why are you so outraged over that priest doing what he did to that girl? They are no different.

i don't think god has accidents, and i don't think god is evil. i think god is correct.

i don't think god has accidents, and i don't think god is evil. i think god is correct.

Raping women and killing babies are correct????????????????????????

Even if he ordered it done to your own child?

Not that he does that shit anymore mind you, I'm speaking about the stories in the Bible.

You're right it was no accident that he got pissed off and killed a guy because he didn't carry his beloved ark in a certain manner. He could not control his anger and acted no better than any murderer. Would you kill your child for not doing something you wanted just like the Biblical God? That's abuse, Lori! That's fucked up over the hill crazy, Lori. There is nothing ever ever ever correct about violence, not ever!

And if you believe that these things are of God and are correct then that indeed makes your God pure evil.

Raping women and killing babies are correct????????????????????????

Even if he ordered it done to your own child?

Not that he does that shit anymore mind you, I'm speaking about the stories in the Bible.

You're right it was no accident that he got pissed off and killed a guy because he didn't carry his beloved ark in a certain manner. He could not control his anger and acted no better than any murderer. Would you kill your child for not doing something you wanted just like the Biblical God? That's abuse, Lori! That's fucked up over the hill crazy, Lori. There is nothing ever ever ever correct about violence, not ever!

And if you believe that these things are of God and are correct then that indeed makes your God pure evil.

i don't think that what the OT describes, and what you see going on around you every day is any different. i think it's just worded in a way that you don't like, or understand. the forrest that you refuse to see because you're lost in the trees is that nothing happens outside god's authority. even the bad things. omniscience means that god even knows it's going to happen before it does, and yet, doesn't intervene (obviously). i know it's something you really don't want to believe, but it's also something that is overwhelmingly obvious and undeniable. do you see?

i don't think that ultimately, people get what they deserve. i think that ultimately, people get what they desire, and what they believe in.

That goes against the teachings of the bible, doesn't it? I mean, it seems to be black and white: you believe or you don't believe, your choice determining your fate in the afterlife. I'm not a theologian, so I'm not going to pretend to know the full details regarding spiritual survival. The basic outline does appear easy to understand, though. Anyway, I simply disagree with your above statement; however, it would be nice if it were true.

Would you kill your child for not doing something you wanted just like the Biblical God? That's abuse, Lori! That's fucked up over the hill crazy, Lori.
Careful...such blasphemies will consign your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren to have your iniquities visited upon them.

With extreme prejudice...no doubt.

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me."

That goes against the teachings of the bible, doesn't it? I mean, it seems to be black and white: you believe or you don't believe, your choice determining your fate in the afterlife. I'm not a theologian, so I'm not going to pretend to know the full details regarding spiritual survival. The basic outline does appear easy to understand, though. Anyway, I simply disagree with your above statement; however, it would be nice if it were true.

i don't think it's contradictory, if what you desire and what you believe in is christ.

from what i gather, christ is about communion. there are various aspects to that of course, but in the most basic sense i think it's determined by a desire for the truth, and an achievement of the greater good, and a recognition that we don't have either of those things without god.

there are those who do not want the truth. they do not desire communion with god or with all others. they are filled with hatred and fear, and are driven by the ego and not love.

if heaven and the kingdom are a place of communion, and hell is a place in which god does not dwell, it seems like we get what we want. does that make sense?

i don't think that what the OT describes, and what you see going on around you every day is any different. i think it's just worded in a way that you don't like, or understand. the forrest that you refuse to see because you're lost in the trees is that nothing happens outside god's authority. even the bad things. omniscience means that god even knows it's going to happen before it does, and yet, doesn't intervene (obviously). i know it's something you really don't want to believe, but it's also something that is overwhelmingly obvious and undeniable. do you see?

Lori, I'm pleading with you to eliminate the talk of "what is going on in this world" right now. Please? That's NOT my point and you keep throwing it up like vomit as if it were all so you can cover up what I'm saying.

The ONE thing that Christianity believes is the Bible. I'm not talking about car accidents or cancer or anything like that. Here's where it gets tricky....so please do try to follow....I'm talking about what the Bible describes (actual scripture) as DIRECT ORDERS from God. Like some Godfather ordering something done....do you get my drift or do you want to go into your Ginger Rogers tap dance into left field? Those orders are meant for intentional harm, for evil because God was intentionally being a dick.

Careful...such blasphemies will consign your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren to have your iniquities visited upon them.

With extreme prejudice...no doubt.

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me."

Well it's a good thing I don't have any :)

But, yes, I know, he's such a kind and loving God teaching us through violence all because he cares for us.

if heaven and the kingdom are a place of communion, and hell is a place in which god does not dwell.
Is there any place where God is not allowed...by what law?

Traditionally Lucifer was thought to be a angel who became arrogant and was thus cast out from heaven and fell to earth. Falling with such force that he crashed right through to the exact center of the earth.

http://images.wikia.com/demons/images/5/58/Lucifer.jpg

And there he broods as we speak...in his cavern.

Surrounded by ice...the frozen tears of the damned.

http://jeffersonsnewspaper.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Gustave_Dore_Inferno34.jpg

Lori, I'm pleading with you to eliminate the talk of "what is going on in this world" right now. Please? That's NOT my point and you keep throwing it up like vomit as if it were all so you can cover up what I'm saying.

The ONE thing that Christianity believes is the Bible. I'm not talking about car accidents or cancer or anything like that. Here's where it gets tricky....so please do try to follow....I'm talking about what the Bible describes (actual scripture) as DIRECT ORDERS from God. Like some Godfather ordering something done....do you get my drift or do you want to go into your Ginger Rogers tap dance into left field? Those orders are meant for intentional harm, for evil because God was intentionally being a dick.

i'm telling you, GOD IS A DICK. and yes that's based on reality and no i'm not going to stop talking about reality. I'M NOT IN YOUR HAPPY SHMAPPY FANTASY WORLD.

sorry.

bottom line heart. you can argue that there is no god, or, you can argue that god is an asshole, but you can NOT argue that there is a god and he's nice. you gotta be outta your fucking mind.

i'm telling you, GOD IS A DICK. and yes that's based on reality and no i'm not going to stop talking about reality. I'M NOT IN YOUR HAPPY SHMAPPY FANTASY WORLD.

sorry.

Allllllllrighty then, so we've established that the Biblical God is a dick.

Why would you want to dedicate your life to a God who behaves no better than Charles Manson, Son of Sam, or any other non caring, cold hearted beast? Got a bad boy thing or what?

I'm a little confused... God is a dick? Lori?

bottom line heart. you can argue that there is no god, or, you can argue that god is an asshole, but you can NOT argue that there is a god and he's nice. you gotta be outta your fucking mind.

You think God having women raped and babies killed is okay because its God doing it ....and you think I'm out of my fucking mind? Did you get a hold of some bad smoke or what?

You think God having women raped and babies killed is okay because its God doing it ....and you think I'm out of my fucking mind? Did you get a hold of some bad smoke or what?

Help me out here, where in the bible can we find evidence of his cruelty? I have a vague recollection of a couple, but I'm not well read in the book.

I'm a little confused... God is a dick? Lori?

well if there is a god, you would have to agree that he's certainly not "nice". right?

from what i know of him he's not. but like i said, he is god, and he is correct (imo). he's just not sympathetic i guess you would say. from heart's perspective, and from a very human perspective, he doesn't seem to be, when you look at the brutality in the world, it's hard to think of god as being nice. imo a nice god wouldn't be a just god. maybe a pushover. but i think that god has a plan and we have a destiny that we can't see entirely, and nice or not, i trust god to know what he's doing.

learning about good and evil isn't nice, it's brutal, you know? but i think it's a good thing to learn.

You think God having women raped and babies killed is okay because its God doing it ....and you think I'm out of my fucking mind? Did you get a hold of some bad smoke or what?

heart, snap out of it! it happens doesn't it? women are being raped and babies are being killed right now as i type this, and if there is a god he's allowing it to happen.

Allllllllrighty then, so we've established that the Biblical God is a dick.

Why would you want to dedicate your life to a God who behaves no better than Charles Manson, Son of Sam, or any other non caring, cold hearted beast? Got a bad boy thing or what?

like i said. learning about good and evil is brutal, but i think it's worth it in the end.

I personally don't have an issue with your religion, Lori--people believe what they want to believe. My mother and two oldest brothers are religious and are reasonably intelligent people. I just don't find any solace in it, which excludes me from having any faith. I think the world is sometimes cruel and that that is reflected in the character of our gods. So, I'm not surprised to learn that god is a dick. It's all relative.

heart, snap out of it! it happens doesn't it? women are being raped and babies are being killed right now as i type this, and if there is a god he's allowing it to happen.

I'm not talking about what happens in the world. End of sentence. The only thing one can go by when it comes to God's character is the Bible, because burning bushes aren't as plentiful these days. got it?

They are, to me, completely different. The Bible vs the real world. We don't hear God shouting out commands these days. Oh, wait, yes....there is that woman I told you about who killed her children because God told her to. That truly must have been the Biblical God talking? Funny, seems there are a lot of stories outside of the Bible where people have said God told them to kill.

I'm sure they will all have jewels in their crowns for following God's violent orders. Blessed are they who kill in his name?

like i said. learning about good and evil is brutal, but i think it's worth it in the end.

Okay, I'll bite. Why is it worth it in the end? You find out a blood thirsty, narcissistic baby killer really might have some bit of love for you and others? Kind of like when serial killers convince women outside of prison that they are the best thing since sliced bread and they are just misunderstood, so these women end up marrying them? Or...well, I apologize, I should let you answer instead of just guessing.

I personally don't have an issue with your religion, Lori--people believe what they want to believe. My mother and two oldest brothers are religious and are reasonably intelligent people. I just don't find any solace in it, which excludes me from having any faith. I think the world is sometimes cruel and that that is reflected in the character of our gods. So, I'm not surprised to learn that god is a dick. It's all relative.

I will find those for you. I am needing to get ready for an appointment so when I get some time I'll most definitely do so. That or you can search my posts...the scriptures are in there, all kinds.

Okay, I'll bite. Why is it worth it in the end? You find out a blood thirsty, narcissistic baby killer really might have some bit of love for you and others? Kind of like when serial killers convince women outside of prison that they are the best thing since sliced bread and they are just misunderstood, so these women end up marrying them? Or...well, I apologize, I should let you answer instead of just guessing.

because then you know the difference between good and evil, and you can choose a better existence because you know it's right and you want it, as opposed to being a dumb animal or a puppet on a string.

I'm not talking about what happens in the world. End of sentence. The only thing one can go by when it comes to God's character is the Bible, because burning bushes aren't as plentiful these days. got it?

They are, to me, completely different. The Bible vs the real world. We don't hear God shouting out commands these days. Oh, wait, yes....there is that woman I told you about who killed her children because God told her to. That truly must have been the Biblical God talking? Funny, seems there are a lot of stories outside of the Bible where people have said God told them to kill.

I'm sure they will all have jewels in their crowns for following God's violent orders. Blessed are they who kill in his name?

of course you're not talking about what happens in the real world. :rolleyes::confused:

What hell is? Well if it existed, I'm pretty sure it would be the place that the Jehovah's witnesses keep going on about when they come knocking on the door.

There depiction is thus, they come to the door and state "how would you like to live in a place like this for eternity?", they depict a "heaven" implying no suffering, no concern for money, no going hungry, living with nature and animals and otherwise being "perfect", at least that's until you get wind that this place will be filled with people "Just like them" which is the to me a definition of a place of moral turpitude, annoyance, anger and borrowing from the catholic religion "purgatory".

In essence "If heaven is where all the religious people go, I wouldn't want to go there because it would be my hell".

So perhaps Einstein is proven right yet again about Relativity. (Due to the relative perception)

very well, hell is that which is extremely bad relative to all possible human perception.

Someone once told me that heaven is love 24/7, so hell must be of the opposite extreme.

well if there is a god, you would have to agree that he's certainly not "nice". right?

from what i know of him he's not. but like i said, he is god, and he is correct (imo). he's just not sympathetic i guess you would say. from heart's perspective, and from a very human perspective, he doesn't seem to be, when you look at the brutality in the world, it's hard to think of god as being nice. imo a nice god wouldn't be a just god. maybe a pushover. but i think that god has a plan and we have a destiny that we can't see entirely, and nice or not, i trust god to know what he's doing.

learning about good and evil isn't nice, it's brutal, you know? but i think it's a good thing to learn.
O.K. maybe it is the rest of you that are dicks , Ever think of that ? Maybe God has to be a dick to defend him self from dick humans . Don't be a dick and maybe just maybe God won't be a dick , Except somethings it is fun to be a dick so I doubt people will stop being dicks all to soon . Don't be a Dick . I wrote that song . When the day comes you hear the song think about what I said . It is a hit song . I know that already . It is not on the charts yet , but one day it will be . Your going to love it. I knew it when I wrote it 30 years ago . It's day is coming

because then you know the difference between good and evil, and you can choose a better existence because you know it's right and you want it, as opposed to being a dumb animal or a puppet on a string.

Humans are both of those Lori 357. Dumb Animals and puppets on a string . That is the true nature of humanity. Humans copy humans . It is the most basic rule of humanity. That is what school is all about. Community . We copy each other especially when we see success . Then we will be more apt to copy that success. Your a Jesus Puppet , or a God Puppet . I got the world on a string . Love that song !! Ever heard of it ? Came out before your time . It was a big hit. Some circles it still is .
Did you see my trick ? Did you understand the trick and the power of it ? How it works like a virus ? You infect those around you and they go infect others . I seen it move through a crowd plenty of times to know it really works. I thought it was my imagination at first when I started using the Trick . No . I have analyzed it real good . In Fact I am going to go to the store and get something for dinner for the family and infect a new group of people with the virus . Ha Ha Ha Ha I am a Dick . I will get them all Ha Ha Ha Ha
You know when I was more of a hard ass people would say that . Ass Hole Mike ! Well fuck em ! Some one has to be the bad guy . Every body would be fucking there sister or brother otherwise. So here is the question ? Is it O.K. to have sex with your third cousin . Now I know it is legal and the bible says government is by God . Yet there seem to be in the modern world a stigmatism about fucking your third cousin. Which is right American moral compass or the Law ? Which is by God and Which is by Government ? Mind you the bible says Government is by God

Someone once told me that heaven is love 24/7, so hell must be of the opposite extreme.

Earth?

Someone once told me that heaven is love 24/7, so hell must be of the opposite extreme.

I think so . Think about it . If you live with only hate in your self . What you going to get from everyone else . Like a guy said to me once that was mad as hell as he was seeking his revenge on Me " Back At you . Back At you .
Oh shit was he mad . He was dishing Me with the same thing I dished him the year before . I had to laugh about it , What else could I do ? In his pea brain he was giving Me back what he perceived Me to be. I hurt him by taking away his dumping grounds for his dog poop and his grass clippings . So he jump my ass when I piled a mountain of dirt on his lawn . All I could do is laugh . He had just sold the house and had not moved out yet and the new owner let us do it . He didn't know it . So I didn't move the dirt like he wanted by the next morning . He sure felt better about chewing my ass though

because then you know the difference between good and evil, and you can choose a better existence because you know it's right and you want it, as opposed to being a dumb animal or a puppet on a string.

Now wait a minute...Why were Adam and Eve cursed then? Wasn't it because they ate from the tree of knowledge? Is there a tree of knowledge #2 or what? I thought this knowledge of knowing right from wrong happened with A&E so maybe I'm not getting what you mean by receiving this knowledge between good and evil being worth it in the end. As to imply its not here now.

Seriously, why do you believe the Biblical God toys with people like that. He's "God" after all. It didn't have to take a blood sacrifice to save us, he could have used M&M's or something a little less violent. I think human sacrifice is dead wrong- I'm just perplexed as to why Christians think it's OK. :shrug:

of course you're not talking about what happens in the real world. :rolleyes::confused:

I was merely trying to make a point. One that is as obvious as can be. You simply refuse to act like you get what I mean. You may not agree with it but you don't have to act like you don't understand what I'm saying.

Now wait a minute...Why were Adam and Eve cursed then? Wasn't it because they ate from the tree of knowledge? Is there a tree of knowledge #2 or what? I thought this knowledge of knowing right from wrong happened with A&E so maybe I'm not getting what you mean by receiving this knowledge between good and evil being worth it in the end. As to imply its not here now.

Seriously, why do you believe the Biblical God toys with people like that. He's "God" after all. It didn't have to take a blood sacrifice to save us, he could have used M&M's or something a little less violent. I think human sacrifice is dead wrong- I'm just perplexed as to why Christians think it's OK. :shrug:

Well I suppose it's only worth it in the end to those who learn enough from it to desire something better and bring about that change.

And would you please stop talking your fantasy crap? In the real world the wages of sin is death, not m&m's.

And would you please stop talking your fantasy crap? In the real world the wages of sin is death, not m&m's.

No, Lori, in the Biblical world wages of sin is death. Very caring and loving of the Biblical God. What I'm saying is the idea that a God would need a blood sacrifice to save others from HIMSELF, is crazy. He's God- he could use any means (and yes that includes M&M's or any other method; he chose a violent one instead)

No, Lori, in the Biblical world wages of sin is death. Very caring and loving of the Biblical God. What I'm saying is the idea that a God would need a blood sacrifice to save others from HIMSELF, is crazy. He's God- he could use any means (and yes that includes M&M's or any other method; he chose a violent one instead)

In the real world too and you know it. I'm glad the wages of sin is death. It would be evil to reward sin or to be indifferent to it.

In the real world too and you know it. I'm glad the wages of sin is death. It would be evil to reward sin or to be indifferent to it.

Why eternal torment? Well Sin is sin after all....so that includes sending people to hell all because they don't believe Jesus is the son of God. Not because they've raped, or killed someone. Rather, sending people to hell forever because they lack a belief in something. Hell, if it were that important you'd think God would make damn sure that everyone would know that Jesus is his son. But, he didn't or can't...after all, he's only God. :rolleyes:

Why eternal torment? Well Sin is sin after all....so that includes sending people to hell all because they don't believe Jesus is the son of God.
that's what man makes it.. man makes it about believe as i do or go to hell..

God would not send you to hell, you get there on your own merits..

that's what man makes it.. man makes it about believe as i do or go to hell..

I'm pretty sure there are various scriptures but one that comes to mind is John 3:16 ....I know it doesn't say you'll go to hell but it says "...Whosoever believes in me shall not perish but have everlasting life" But...also in Revelations it talks about "Depart from me ye who work iniquity for you knew me not" One cannot know in the manner he is speaking about knowing if they do not believe.



God would not send you to hell, you get there on your own merits..

I despise this answer....I hear it all the time from Christians as their defense for hell. But my answer to that is God created so the called laws...laws that a person may not agree with (like believing Jesus is God's son). If someone told you that you had a choice to eat a tablespoon of dog poop or horse poop...that really isn't a choice. Nobody would want to suffer for eternity.

I'm pretty sure there are various scriptures but one that comes to mind is John 3:16 ....I know it doesn't say you'll go to hell but it says "...Whosoever believes in me shall not perish but have everlasting life" But...
exactly. we cannot know what it is, that we could do, to keep us from going to hell without jesus, jesus was sent to give us a clue..


also in Revelations it talks about "Depart from me ye who work iniquity for you knew me not" One cannot know in the manner he is speaking about knowing if they do not believe.
enough of jesus was put in the bible to reason out who he was..the more we study him, the more we 'know' him..(familiarity)


I despise this answer....I hear it all the time from Christians as their defense for hell.
study for yourself. it has always been mans flavor to make it about 'or else' even in the bible.

why do you need a 'rule' to get you to do what is good?


But my answer to that is God created so the called laws...laws that a person may not agree with (like believing Jesus is God's son).
if we did not have access to both sides of the argument how could we make the best choices?


If someone told you that you had a choice to eat a tablespoon of dog poop or horse poop...that really isn't a choice. Nobody would want to suffer for eternity.
If one contained an immortality(wish?) pill would you eat it?

i have heard there is a belief that we will get a second chance, jesus will come to hell to retrieve some souls. (i have no clue as to source)

i believe that God created us with the ability to choose.
i think that anything counter to this is from 'Man'.

enough of jesus was put in the bible to reason out who he was..the more we study him, the more we 'know' him..(familiarity)

So you expect everyone to read the Bible? What if they can't read? What if they don't own a Bible? What if they don't want to read it?



study for yourself. it has always been mans flavor to make it about 'or else' even in the bible.

Consider:
Matthew: 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Don't you consider that an or else? "Only those who do the will of my Father"?



why do you need a 'rule' to get you to do what is good?

I don't need a rule to get me to do what is good. Nor do I need Jesus to do that either or the Bible.



if we did not have access to both sides of the argument how could we make the best choices?

I see what you are saying, however I think it's crazy to even consider that a God would need a blood sacrifice to save us from himself- that's really the best God could come up with? Violence?



If one contained an immortality(wish?) pill would you eat it?

ROFLMAO So are you saying we have to eat poop in order to get immortality?:p

hell is not true.

So you expect everyone to read the Bible? What if they can't read? What if they don't own a Bible? What if they don't want to read it?
can you read? do you own a bible? do you really want to know?
you can't criticize a literary work without reading it, why is the bible an exception?


Consider:
Matthew: 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Don't you consider that an or else? "Only those who do the will of my Father"?
think of what they are comparing, those that 'Do Gods will' and those that just say they are..it is my opinion that these latter types are at the top of the religious food chain.

and 'will of the father' is very susceptible to what it is the father wants you do to (not mans).


I don't need a rule to get me to do what is good.
good!

Nor do I need Jesus to do that either or the Bible.
doesn't hurt to study for a different perspective on some things..


I see what you are saying, however I think it's crazy to even consider that a God would need a blood sacrifice to save us from himself- that's really the best God could come up with? Violence?
there is more to God than any of us can figure..



ROFLMAO So are you saying we have to eat poop in order to get immortality?:p
lol..isn't that what we need to do to get ahead on earth?

can you read?

No, not at all. :D


do you own a bible?
yes, I own a Bible


do you really want to know? you can't criticize a literary work without reading it, why is the bible an exception?

I've read it




think of what they are comparing, those that 'Do Gods will' and those that just say they are..it is my opinion that these latter types are at the top of the religious food chain.

and 'will of the father' is very susceptible to what it is the father wants you do to (not mans).

Yep, says they that do not DO the father's will are going to hell. To be honest those people were shocked I'm sure as I'm sure they thought they were doing what he wanted. Regardless, hell is a little drastic-



there is more to God than any of us can figure..

That can be taken in more than one way




lol..isn't that what we need to do to get ahead on earth?

lol true, very true. So shouldn't heaven be a bit different?

Why eternal torment? Well Sin is sin after all....so that includes sending people to hell all because they don't believe Jesus is the son of God. Not because they've raped, or killed someone. Rather, sending people to hell forever because they lack a belief in something. Hell, if it were that important you'd think God would make damn sure that everyone would know that Jesus is his son. But, he didn't or can't...after all, he's only God. :rolleyes:

it's just a realization heart. it's a realization that there's something tragically wrong with humanity that we can't fix ourselves.

i mean, it's all relative you know? this earth is a real hell hole; a real place of torment, and you know as well as i do that some people are just fine with it, while it tortures others to the point of insanity. it's all perspective.

i believe in a way out because i've been shown the way out, and all i did was ask. what's the harm in taking a chance on something better? why is the end of all of our suffering something to get defensive about? fuck if i know, but people sure seem to.

it's just a realization heart. it's a realization that there's something tragically wrong with humanity that we can't fix ourselves.

i mean, it's all relative you know? this earth is a real hell hole; a real place of torment, and you know as well as i do that some people are just fine with it, while it tortures others to the point of insanity. it's all perspective.

i believe in a way out because i've been shown the way out, and all i did was ask. what's the harm in taking a chance on something better? why is the end of all of our suffering something to get defensive about? fuck if i know, but people sure seem to.

It's not such a terrible place for everyone, Lori. And I think it has improved from what it once was. And it could be better.

It's not such a terrible place for everyone, Lori. And I think it has improved from what it once was. And it could be better.

It's all relative, but relative to a world without sin? People can't even fathom. Just try a mental exercise where you imagine what it might be like without greed alone. Then lose the hate, the lies, the fear, the violence. We can't even imagine as hard as we try, a world in which everyone loves each other, and because of that always acts in accordance with the greater good. Realize that without a doubt currently, none of us do that. Why?

You understand how people are conditioned right? Even by really horrible things. And those things become normal. Think about it. Think about how people become acclimated to very harsh environments. I'm saying that we all have, and we think this is ok, simply because it's the norm.

I want to annihilate the norm.

It's all relative, but relative to a world without sin? People can't even fathom. Just try a mental exercise where you imagine what it might be like without greed alone. Then lose the hate, the lies, the fear, the violence. We can't even imagine as hard as we try, a world in which everyone loves each other, and because of that always acts in accordance with the greater good. Realize that without a doubt currently, none of us do that. Why?

You understand how people are conditioned right? Even by really horrible things. And those things become normal. Think about it. Think about how people become acclimated to very harsh environments. I'm saying that we all have, and we think this is ok, simply because it's the norm.

I want to annihilate the norm.

The world isn't devoid of those qualities that you crave. They might be lacking the intensity of what you consider heaven, but they are still here. There are many selfless people who give their lives towards improving the world, sacrificing much in the effort.

Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness

I'm not a saint by any standard, but I can still appreciate the message. For me it doesn't only represent hope for spiritual salvation, but hope for the world, the world we live in. Do you understand? Yeah, it sucks here, but maybe we can make it better?

Anyway, I'm not a champion of good deeds, but I do see the light. The challenge is in finding the strength to practice the above in our lives. Maybe that's what's wrong with our world, we are too weak. :)

Earth?

There's love here.

I had a dream once where I felt an overwhelming sense of love. I never felt anything like it before or after. It was very...curious.

I'm pretty sure there are various scriptures but one that comes to mind is John 3:16 ....I know it doesn't say you'll go to hell but it says "...Whosoever believes in me shall not perish but have everlasting life" But...also in Revelations it talks about "Depart from me ye who work iniquity for you knew me not" One cannot know in the manner he is speaking about knowing if they do not believe.

"""Depart from me ye who work iniquity for you knew me not""""

Where did you get this quote??

The verse says in my NKJV Bible:

Matthew 7
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus is talking to ones who believed in jesus but never believed Jesus. These people where religious people. Not atheists.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

It's not such a terrible place for everyone, Lori. And I think it has improved from what it once was. And it could be better.


It's a Terrible place for me because i know it is a terrible place for many.

Why does the knowledge of others suffering make it terrible for me?

It's called Compassion.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

It's a Terrible place for me because i know it is a terrible place for many.

Why does the knowledge of others suffering make it terrible for me?

It's called Compassion.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

If you have that much compassio, act on it; that is, make the world better. Don't wait for heavenly intervention.

If you have that much compassio, act on it; that is, make the world better. Don't wait for heavenly intervention.

Shit Man . They don't know what to do . They need examples . That is where we come in . Are you with Me . Do the hustle, Bomp Bom Bomp , be domp Bomp Bomp. I am changing the world bro . I know you can't really tell but it is true. Yeah right now I am in the vetting process and the powers that be are wondering if I am going to become viable . It is a lot like getting a loan from a bank . You have to succeed before you get support and yet you need support to succeed . Slide of hand is the only way around it . Create your own support and then everybody wants to be with a winner so then you get support when they see you are supported . So it is kind of to late . Heavenly intervention already hea ! The Big sky diving down on the world like a vulture to eat up the dead carcasses of inaction . The slippery slope of self loathing giving charity as a feel good touchy self with out real regard for the down trodden . The same that convert you and us the carrot on a stick as there tool of indoctrination of there own god image. The one feed to them by the culture they live in . We will make every one Live by the values of our own indoctrination. Be like us mentality . If your not you are unwashed and not worthy to receive our help that we really do to satisfy our own low opinion of our selves .

Lets see how I can make it more clear . The average person does charity so they can feel good about them selves . For contributing a and there by being a good little civic citizen. Do they really care about a homeless man with a drink in his hand past out on a park bench . No they hate that Man . They would rather see him die or just go away . He is the scape goat . He represents the Killer , The Child molester, the thief , the drunk that kills the innocence of life with his car that he lives in . The impression of civility

"""Depart from me ye who work iniquity for you knew me not""""

Where did you get this quote??

The verse says in my NKJV Bible:

Matthew 7
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus is talking to ones who believed in jesus but never believed Jesus. These people where religious people. Not atheists.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I do like the way the m is capitalized in the name Me for Who is Like Me. The work Man that builds his house on rock. If he don't then the ruin of that house will be great . LUke said that . Not the M part or the Who is like Me , but the rest he said

Lets see how I can make it more clear . The average person does charity so they can feel good about them selves . For contributing a and there by being a good little civic citizen. Do they really care about a homeless man with a drink in his hand past out on a park bench . No they hate that Man . They would rather see him die or just go away . He is the scape goat . He represents the Killer , The Child molester, the thief , the drunk that kills the innocence of life with his car that he lives in . The impression of civility

True for some, but many do it because they are compelled. As for homeless drunks, there's no easy solution for that problem, yet there are people who care. If I were to give my compassion in that direction, it would be financial support for those organizations that provide services to the homeless.