Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/09/politics/09GAYS.html?hp) we learn that:
Ms. Leber, a software engineer and a registered Republican in Jeffersonville, Pa., is also a member of the Pink Pistols, an organization of gay and lesbian gun owners, and marriage is not the only issue on her mind.

“Right now, I am leaning toward Bush,” Ms. Leber said. “All the Democrats just rolled into Congress to vote for this gun-control bill. Somebody with my values and beliefs can't be a single-issue voter.” Pink Pistols. http://users.adelphia.net/~goofyfish/images/pinkpist.gif (http://www.pinkpistols.com/) Is this a great country or what?

:m: Peace.

Is this a great country or what?

hmm ... i don´t think so

Heckler & Koch guns are made in Germany, Pentax. They make some of the finest handguns in the world. The MP5 is one sweet rig as well. Tell me you are not proud to be living in Germany.

I find it laughable that anyone at this site posts anything that has to do with guns. I have yet to see anyone here that knows jack-shit about guns. Doesn't mean you can't post comments of course, but it would be like me attempting to make a post regarding nuclear fission.
What's your point Goof? Are we supposed to feel sorry for you because you probably just found out about an organization that has been around for almost 4 years?

Are we supposed to feel sorry for you because you probably just found out about an organization that has been around for almost 4 years?Nope, we're supposed to celebrate a nation of lethally-armed, carpet-munching man-haters.

Haha I'm sure I've posted about the pink pistols here before (anyone care to go thread diving?) I know a guy who is a member of their Philadelphia chapter, and has apparently been on the local news a few times giving interviews. It's awfully silly isn't it? But hey! Remember when you're deciding on gay marriage, that homosexuals are armed! heh.

I'm waiting for a break off militant activist group, say Pink-delta force or something like that, hehe. Hmm, come to think of it though, the only chapter that they have in Arizona is in Tucson, and that's way out and away from the major bulk of urbanized land. . . maybe I should start my own chapter!

I find it laughable that anyone at this site posts anything that has to do with guns. I have yet to see anyone here that knows jack-shit about guns.
I resent that,I used to be an aurmoruor for a CCF unit in the UK, True i mainly worked with rifles, but rifles are truly great to work with. I also found out that The Old SA80 Was truly abismal in therm of reliability.

Delta Pink, the harbor of a thousand landings?

Heckler & Koch guns are made in Germany, Pentax. They make some of the finest handguns in the world. The MP5 is one sweet rig as well. Tell me you are not proud to be living in Germany.


well , what has that to do with the topic ? goofy asked a question - i gave an answer

ps : gun-owners are disgusting ......

"well , what has that to do with the topic ? goofy asked a question - i gave an answer "

I was merely making the point that there are gun manufacturers and gun owners in the country you live in. What makes Germany better than the US as far as guns are concerned?

"ps : gun-owners are disgusting ......"

Typical, angry, liberal statement.

What makes Germany better than the US as far as guns are concerned?



Germany makes guns and sells them to Americans so they can shoot each other.

I find it laughable that anyone at this site posts anything that has to do with guns. I have yet to see anyone here that knows jack-shit about guns. Doesn't mean you can't post comments of course, but it would be like me attempting to make a post regarding nuclear fission.


Guns are used to kill. What else is there to know?

What makes Germany better than the US as far as guns are concerned?

ok , let´s talk about the differences :p


Firearm-related deaths (in 2000)

United States: 30,419 (11.3 per 100,000)

Germany: 1,201 (1.5 per 100 000)



Gun ownership per 100 inhabitants

United States: 83-96

European Union: 17.4

BWHAAHAHAHAHA! Where did you get these completely false statistics? You are a total joke!!! Go drink another warm beer.
83-96% of the US inhabitants owns guns? Yea, ok. You are not worthy of intelligent debate.

ds,

"Germany makes guns and sells them to Americans so they can shoot each other."

That IS a funny statement, but I'll bite. The German made MP5 is sold around the world mainly for use by police officers an the military.

"Guns are used to kill. What else is there to know?"

I plan on competing in a target shooting competition quite soon. I actually enjoy things that I am good at. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean it should be illegal. Why not ban all motor sports. These silly competitions lead to senseless deaths right? While we are at it, lets ban back yard pools. They kill far, far more children than guns each year, but being the hypocrite that you are, I doubt you ever spoke out about "pool control".

BWHAAHAHAHAHA! Where did you get these completely false statistics?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/

now show me your numbers ;)


You are a total joke!!!

thanks , i always try so hard to be funny


Go drink another warm beer.

listen you hosenscheisser , you shouldn´t use a ( btw : wrong ) cliché :D
people here hate warm beer + i don´t drink any beer


83-96% of the US inhabitants owns guns?

who said that ? not me , not the numbers i gave you ...


Yea, ok. You are not worthy of intelligent debate.

you call your gibberish intelligent ? well ..... so be it ;)

83-96% of the US inhabitants owns guns? Yea, ok.Although his post was a bit unclear, it was not a statement of percentage people who own guns. It is gun ownership per capita, and I believe it is accurate.

Sure it was unclear, but the result is the same.

83-96 out of 100 = 83-96%

That's kinda how percentages work. :confused:

Those numbers are suspect as hell.

if 9 out of 100 people own 10 guns each, how many weapons are there then per person in procent?

hosenscheisser :) seriusly does anybody say that?

The sheer volume of anti-gun disinformation on the web is pervasive that it's rapidly becoming to get reliable data on the subject. I stumbled across at least a dozen sources trying to make the claim that gun ownership in the U.S. is approaching one per person. Yeah, that's true asshat, if you're stupid enough to think that dividing the total number of guns by the total number of citizens is somehow a valid data point in any argument.

This site isn't much, but it seems to at least still be grounded in reality. Like I said, those numbers are suspect. I'm surprised how easily some of you took those numbers with no hesitation.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=234

Those numbers are suspect as hell.

you know what ? do an own search and tell me the results ;)


kunax

hosenscheisser seriusly does anybody say that?

yep , it´s often used here


15 ( hat immer recht :D )

The sheer volume of anti-gun disinformation on the web is pervasive

you are such a troll .....

At least I had the courtesy to link to some numbers.

Gun per capita = Lame Argument

I own seven guns. So what. If my neighbor owns 0 guns, he owns 0 guns.

great , 15 :D

At least I had the courtesy to link to some numbers

lazy or what ? just search - the numbers are there ;)

Gun per capita = Lame Argument

but gdp per capita isn´t , right ?

I own seven guns. So what. If my neighbor owns 0 guns, he owns 0 guns.

brilliant .....just brilliant :D
hey 15 , i´m pretty sure everybody here understood that concept ; even before you explained it

Apparently they did not. I'm still trying to understand the point of that number. I'm sure the number of banana's per 100 people is extraordinarily high in the Dominican Republic. What does that prove?

There are many valid arguments supporting gun control, you just haven't made of any of them thus far in this thread.

The Harris Poll was conducted by telephone within the United States between April 26 – May 5, 2001, among a nationwide cross section of 1,014 adults.

i often see americans cry when others generalize about them, but often i see you do it yourself.

15ofthe19 remaining iq points, look at table 2, All Adults, add the numbers.
Add alittle to count in those that have more then 3 weapons.

Yes I can read a table. Table 2 is a breakdown of all gun owners.

If you would make an effort to speak english, it would be much appreciated. Your post is completely non-sensical.

Hey sweety,

Your statistic pertaining to the total number of guns in the USA? Some estimates place the number closer to 300 million. How is this a bad thing?

Your other statistic is meaningless. You are comparing apples and oranges, a common liberal tactic. First, over half of these “firearm related deaths” are suicides. Second, what is the population difference between Doucheland and the US? Third, the “nonfirearm related homicides” are of similar proportion to the “firearm related homicides”, meaning we (US)just have a general crime problem overall that I think stems from a shitty judicial system.

Here is your precious link sweety.
http://www.fbi.gov/

BTW many Germans DO favor warm beer. My company does business with Siemens, and when they come here, they complain about the cold beer. Fact.

Also, which of my statements concerning firearms is “gibberish”?

Your statistic pertaining to the total number of guns in the USA? Some estimates place the number closer to 300 million.How is this a bad thing?

well ... my mistake :rolleyes:
i repeat myself , but now with a bigger font

United States: 30,419 (11.3 per 100,000)


First, over half of these “firearm related deaths” are suicides.

now that´s what i call meaningless ;)
so we take the half away ( of course for both countries ) and what´s the result ?
lol ....
my point is just that you kill each other more than it happens in other cultures !
so my advice : take the guns away from amerikans - they can´t handle them


Also, which of my statements concerning firearms is “gibberish”?

maybe this :
83-96% of the US inhabitants owns guns?
or maybe that :
pool control


BTW many Germans DO favor warm beer. My company does business with Siemens, and when they come here, they complain about the cold beer. Fact.

oh ....more gibberish
as i said , nobody here likes warm beer ... it´s just that we also hate ice-cold beer !
now if you say we like warm beer just because you serve your beer too cool ...... then , it´s not my problem
and since you guys over there have no clue about beer - i´ll stop talking about beer now :D


uh-oh ..... i forgot something:
Second, what is the population difference between Doucheland and the US?

now tell me : are you really that dumb ?

ps : it´s deutschland you brainiac

Ah!! We finally extract your true elitist intentions. You can have guns, but we can not.


"Also, which of my statements concerning firearms is “gibberish”?

maybe this :
83-96% of the US inhabitants owns guns?"

This was your statistic beer boy.

Also, show me a study that relates to the total # of guns in a country vs. the "firearms related deaths"

Ah!! We finally extract your true elitist intentions. You can have guns, but we can not.

as i already mentioned - i don´t like gun-onwers ... everywhere :rolleyes:


This was your statistic beer boy.

nope , it isn´t mine
( and may i add that you are bad at maths ? )


Also, show me a study that relates to the total # of guns in a country vs. the "firearms related deaths"


what´s up with you ? is wish-ya-something-day or what ?
you want a study ? go , search it !
you wanted to show me that i´m not right and now I have to search for evidence that debunks my own statement ? :confused:
yes , this must be freako-country ......

Some estimates place the number closer to 300 million. How is this a bad thing?


300 million guns used for target practice and hunting is a good thing. :bugeye:

some facts (http://www.advocatehealth.com/system/info/library/reference/peds/safety/frarmsta.html) :

Approximately 1,500 children, ages 14 and under, are treated annually in hospital emergency rooms for unintentional firearm-related injuries.

In 1998, 121 children, ages 14 and under, died from unintentional firearm-related injuries; more than half of those children were between the ages of 10 and 14.

Nine times as many children die from unintentional firearm-related injuries in the US than in the next 25 industrialized countries combined.

In 1999, non-powder gun-related injuries (for example, BB guns or pellet guns) sent nearly 7,800 children to hospital emergency rooms for treatment.

And half a million or so are treated for injuries occuring
from bicycle accidents... should we get rid of them as well?

:m: Peace.

should we get rid of them as well?

is it this really a silly question or are you showing something here ?
all i can say in the moment is there are things that are more avoidable

ps : allow guns for kids and then compare the numbers

and hey ..another thing :


"Nine times as many children die from unintentional firearm-related injuries in the US than in the next 25 industrialized countries combined."

isn´t that impressive ?

allow guns for kids and then compare the numbersWe do. In the same way that we allow them bikes... or compare statistics in other areas. My point is that as a statistic, gun accidents are comparitively low - I would even bet that more kids are injured riding the school bus each year.

:m: Peace.

now you really confuse me ....
ok , what about making school buses ( pardon ... don´t know the plural ) more safe ?
plus the fact that a school bus is really important - but are guns ?


btw , wtf ...? kids in america aren´t allowed to own/use guns , are they ?

now you really confuse me ....
ok , what about making school buses ( pardon ... don´t know the plural ) more safe ?I guess that would depend on the actions of adults - just like for guns.
...kids in america aren´t allowed to own/use guns , are they ?Not own, but use? Absolutely. If adults are resposible it is not an issue. I grew up with guns in our house, locked in a safe - and I continue that practice as an adult.

:m: Peace.

I don't want to get involved in this debate, but I have to just say:

If adults are resposible it is not an issue.

How do we discern or how do we qualify what is a responsible adult? I think the death rate that Sweet has shown is that there is a significant portion of Americans who aren't "responsible". It dosen't add up...

I think the death rate in other areas would demonstrate the same.
I is not specific to any one area of life. Accidents will always happen.
You can reduce them, but you cannot eliminate them.

:m: Peace.

thing is : the goverment can´t decide indiviually ! they can´t "test" parents or something like that
btw , goofy .... you think there was NO way to get a loaded weapon in your hands ( without your parents ) ?
i´d rather think you acted responsible , not your parents ( err .... i don´t want to attack your family )

No offense taken. :)
They acted responsibly by instilling respect for firearms in me.

:m: Peace.

but you know , there is no guarantee that a kid acts like you you want it to act!
a lot of kids try to "steal" pops pistol , i´m sure !
so as statitics have shown , it seems that american parents have huge problems when it comes to responsibility - isn´t it time to do something ? i know .... you can´t teach parents .... so just take them their right to bear weapons

But my point is that, in the big picture of childrens' deaths, guns play a very minor part. Yes, we have a viceral reaction when something happens to a child - it's genetic, probably - but emotions cannot change the fact that there are greater dangers.

:m: Peace.

sweety,

"so just take them their right to bear weapons"

Great idea! Then we will end up like Austrailia and England. Both of these countries have a higher crime rate per capita than the US now that thier gun ownership is virtually nonexistant and ALL handguns are illegal.

http://www.chemistry.ohio-state.edu/~jherring/war/violentcrimeinbritain.pdf

Delta Pink, the harbor of a thousand landings?

Yes, surely I was making such an obscure and nonsensical reference, hehe. You’re too educated for your own good, go drink some and purge your brain of useless bits of information.

Pink Delta, as in the gay pride symbol, Delta Force, as in the US Army special ops force, put it together and you've got a cell of homosexual domestic terrorists, I'm certain.

what are the laws for getting a weapon, registration, background check by police. ect?

what are the laws for storing a weapon, safybox, ammo and weapon seperate. ect?

The “pools and bicycles kill more kids than guns” argument is stupid.
1.All kids play in pools and ride bicycles. Ratio of kids who play to those who die is low. There are laws that make pools & bikes safer but yes they could and should be improved.
2.Swimming & bicycling is exercising and is healthy for kids. They probably save more lives (through preventing heart disease later in life) then they take.
3.Guns are designed to kill. The effort required to pull a trigger is much less than effort required to ride a bike in oncoming traffic.
4.GUNS ARE DESIGNED TO KILL. Fine. You want to go target practice or hunting, no reason to own 8 fully automatic machine guns. Best target practice is with pellet gun.
You guys are using excuses like target practice and hunting. The main reason people own guns in US is to “protect” themselves from other people with guns.

btw , practice for what ? the next civil war ?

ds,

"The main reason people own guns in US is to “protect” themselves from other people with guns."

You almost nailed it on that one, although I would change the wording to add "...with guns and other potentially lethal weapons" (Sometimes people use their bare hands to kill/mame). This is indeed the reason for purchasing my first handgun. However, you might want to check some statistics on hunting in the US. There are tens of millions of people who hunt here. Also I would disagree with your opinion "Guns are designed to kill". You would be hard pressed to find many gun experts that agree that 22 rimfire cartridges are efficient at self defense. They are indeed used primarily for "plinking"( outdoor target shooting at targets such as cans and such ) and legitimate target shooting. Ironically, I believe I read a statistic that claimed that more murders were committed using .22's, than all other calibers combined. The reason for this is probably the fact that .22's are generally the cheapest guns to obtain even on the black-market and ammo is very inexpensive as well. Plus, they are generally small and easy to conceal. Hey, your buddy Reagan was shot with a .22, and he's still kickin'. Brady didn't fare so well, but he's alive. The bottom line is this: Our criminal justice system is broken. Criminals continue to obtain guns in countries like the UK and Australia, even though they are now illegal there. Wake up, it's a perfectly fucked up world out there, and banning guns is not the best solution.

Kunax,

There's this thingy called Google out there. Do your own research!

did not want to research, so i just asked a simple question, if it's answered or not means nothing to me.

One of the things that make 22 caliber guns popular is the ricochet effect. If you shoot someone in the head with a 22 the bullet is likey to penetrate the skull but not exit instead it'll ricochet and tear up more vital tissue. I think the Buttafucco case involved a 22 pistol.

Ron,
This is an old-wives-tale. Where is your evidence to support this untrue statement regarding ricochet. Assuming the .22 (rimfire) round has enough energy to pierce the skull(many times it does not), what exactly will it ricochet off of? There are no bones in human brains.(except for a few posters here) Bullets need something relatively hard to hit before it can ricochet. Simple physics.

yes... where would a bullet find a relatively hard material to bounce off of upon punching though someone’s SCULL.... hmmm where inside someone’s SCULL is there some sort of tough substance that a small bullet would have a tough time penetrating... in someone’s SCULL.

yes... where would a bullet find a relatively hard material to bounce off of upon punching though someone’s SCULL.... hmmm where inside someone’s SCULL is there some sort of tough substance that a small bullet would have a tough time penetrating... in someone’s SCULL.

You're being terribly insensitive you know. What about all of those people with two dimensional skulls, the bullet only has to penetrate once and then there's no other side to reach.

And yes, some larger rounds will blow right through you, it'll still kill you but the wound is usually fairly clean. A .22 however just sort of goes in and rattles around inside of you until you die.

Immane1, no links here something I was told about the .223 (5.56MM) figured it would apply to the .22. I don't know the specifications for the rimfire could you supply me with some? Buttafuco case was aparantly a .25 caliber pistol damn my poor memory for molestation/murder caseS.

Sweet Pentax be happy were just practicing and not INVADING GERMANY!!!
(LOL joking)

Ron, for what it's worth. The .223 is the cartridge you probably know as the M-16, M-4, AR-15, or Bushmaster. It's generally 55-65 grains, Centerfire, very high velocity. It would blow right through your skull at close range and keep going for a long time on the other side, depending on the jacketing.

Absolutely no comparison to a .22 rimfire.

M-16 A2 amunition, .223 caliber (5.56mm.) yea, I know at close range, but the rounds out of the M-16's are supposed to hit at a distance.(At least thats what I was trained to do) At a distance shouldn't the M-16 .223 rounds act like the close up .22 caliber rounds? I assumed they would but is there something that I'm overlooking?

ps : gun-owners are disgusting ......As are people who drive cars, know karate, or live in a country with an army. Now that we are all equally disgusting, do you feel any better?

"yes... where would a bullet find a relatively hard material to bounce off of upon punching though someone’s SCULL.... hmmm where inside someone’s SCULL is there some sort of tough substance that a small bullet would have a tough time penetrating... in someone’s SCULL."

While it would be true that if ones skull was shot from a certain angle, AND the bullet had insufficient energy to exit the other side of the skull, it usually takes a route around the inner skull much the same way a basketball rolls around the rim on certain shots. It usually does not "rattle around". There are 4 main .22rimfire cartridges. The .22 short,.22 long,.22 long rifle,and .22 magnum. All of these would have different effects as they generally travel at different velocities. Bullet type would affect the ballistics as well. Although if a bullet has already gone through your brain, it seems moot that it ricochets. You are probably dead anyways.

http://www.swlink.net/~hoboh/foster/pages/BeyersBizzareDrawing/BizzareDrawing.htm

Here is a link that explains the "ricochet effect". This seems to be common on any moderate velocity, small caliber bullet, not just .22's, so for the most part, I STAND CORRECTED!!
You may take a bow now Mossey. *slinks away in shame*

Sweet Pentax be happy were just practicing and not INVADING GERMANY!!!
(LOL joking)I think you made a good suggestion. Not only will we waste many bullets in one place, but we'll also destroy some major gun suppliers. You up for it sweet?

"hmmm where inside someone’s SCULL is there some sort of tough substance that a small bullet would have a tough time penetrating"

Oh, and before you gloat too much, the actual size of the bullet has nothing to do with "having a tough time penetrating a skull"

M-16 A2 amunition, .223 caliber (5.56mm.) yea, I know at close range, but the rounds out of the M-16's are supposed to hit at a distance.(At least thats what I was trained to do) At a distance shouldn't the M-16 .223 rounds act like the close up .22 caliber rounds? I assumed they would but is there something that I'm overlooking?

Ballistics doesn't really work that way from what I know of it. Remember, if you shoot an M-16 across a field, and I drop a bullet from the same height as the gun, they hit the ground at the same time. My point is that within an effective range, the bullet is going to penetrate your skull. Now what it does after that, I couldn't say. Regardless, I think the reason that hitters use .22's is because they don't create an exit wound. No mess. Less evidence. Just as dead. Makes sense to me.

My personal fav is to insert a sharp, flat blade into that crease just between the first and second vertebrae. No mess. Very little blood. The target just slumps over dead, with a severed spinal cord. Tony Hillerman taught me that little nugget.

Momma must be proud.

All this talk of bullets and brains is getting me horny.

So, anyway, I don't have a problem with queers or any other law-abiding citizen carrying guns to protect themselves. Gay bashing is just stupid. While I am not a huge fan of the gay lifestyle, I could really care less what you do in your own home. You can jerk your dog off, with a heroin needle sticking out of your arm for all I care. ;)

You know, I'm not sure if Goofy counts as a troll for this thread, seeing how it has inspired argument between both sides of the gun debate, yet didnt have much of a point to it to begin with.

Oh, and before you gloat too much, the actual size of the bullet has nothing to do with "having a tough time penetrating a skull"

Sure does, momentum has two components, force which is better in a large bullet because you can fit more powder in the cartridge, and Mass which of course a larger bullet has more of. The bigger the bullet the less likely your little scull can stop it.

Next physics class I take I'm going to ask tons of bullet related questions and turn it into a ballistics course.

Blades are more dangerous than guns at close range especially when the person with the blade knows what there doing.

"Sure does, momentum has two components, force which is better in a large bullet because you can fit more powder in the cartridge, and Mass which of course a larger bullet has more of. The bigger the bullet the less likely your little scull can stop it."

The only point you are missing is:
Larger caliber bullets (like the 9mm,.38/.357, .40, and .45) are usually 3-5 times the weight of .22 rimfire bullets. This more than offsets the frontal area disadvantage the larger bullets have for skull penetration capabilities.

Well, I learned a little more about head wound ballistics and forensics than I thought I would. :eek:

“Right now, I am leaning toward Bush,” Ms. Leber said. “All the Democrats just rolled into Congress to vote for this gun-control bill. Somebody with my values and beliefs can't be a single-issue voter.”
She apparently approves of more than one type of Bush.

/rimshot

And with that we end our discussion. :D