I'm not sure if this should be here or in pseudoscience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0&feature=player_embedded

Comments?

Yes, that it is utterly ridiculous.

:D Brilliant!

Hahaha, that is pretty funny. =)

Cesspool.

I'm not sure if this should be here or in pseudoscience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0&feature=player_embedded

Comments?

sponsored by your giant money making pharmaceuticals

sponsored by your giant money making pharmaceuticals
Wrong.

It's funny because it's true.

james im currently operning the video however you know well my feelings about homeopathy. For starters there initial premis is illogical, to say that you can dilute a substance to the point that it has no side effects while at the same time saying that the dilution makes it more effective makes no sense. This is further highlighted if you read the back of a homeopathic pain killers packet. They state on the back that for a mild headache take one tablet, for server take 2. Well if there theory could hold water (parden the pun) then wouldnt that be backwards? ie take 2 for mild and 1 for server?

Further more one person sort to argue that vacinations were proof that the theory works. However they are wrong, vacinations work by exposure which alows the body to build up antibodies to the disease or by a direct injection of antibodies. So yes technically they could argue that its "like beating like" however for the people who do argue this i offer a challange. Come to my house and i will cut an artery in your arm, then you can chose your treatment. Either a) i will provide pressure to the wound to induce clotting, transport to hospital where the wound can be stiched up ect. or you can chose option b and actually put your theory to the test. In the other arm i will make a small cut to one of the minor arteriols and we can watch and see if like cures like

Or we could try cutting off your arm and then cutting the finger off the other arm and seeing if that fixes the missing arm before you bleed to death. Or should that be making a small cut on the other arm in the same spot?

or we could try shock, i will drain 3 L of your blood and then put a drop of that blood into 4 L of pure water and put it back into you and watch you die from all your cells exploding

HEHEHEE finally finished downloading the video:p

Awesome video James, Mitchell and Webb are excellent.

Water conformation makes homeopathy possible. Water is an incredibly complex substance with very many unexplainable properties; if homeopathy has any statistical benefits it is because of this.

That's absurd. Water is water. Which unexplainable properties has it? How are the statistical advantages of homeopathy different from idiopathic recovery rates?

DRZion
you willing to put that to the test?
my offer still stands and you can pick which injury you prefer- aterial bleeding, shock or amputation

Water conformation makes homeopathy possible. Water is an incredibly complex substance with very many unexplainable properties; if homeopathy has any statistical benefits it is because of this.

As there is finite water on the planet, and it has therefore had a long time to come into contact with pretty much every substance on the planet over time, and become diluted again, how come rain, or sea water doesn't cure all ills?

Why doesn't this magic effect work until a homeopath SELLS it to someone. Oh, I think I answered my own question.

I'm not sure if this should be here or in pseudoscience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0&feature=player_embedded

Comments?

You baiting Max again James? Waiting for him to come in on his white donkey and defend and all the offended Homeopaths? :-)

You baiting Max again James? Waiting for him to come in on his white donkey and defend and all the offended Homeopaths? :-)

Quit being a homeophobe.

Quit being a homeophobe.

Nice. :D

As there is finite water on the planet, and it has therefore had a long time to come into contact with pretty much every substance on the planet over time, and become diluted again, how come rain, or sea water doesn't cure all ills?

Why doesn't this magic effect work until a homeopath SELLS it to someone. Oh, I think I answered my own question.

Hehe. Apt.


Quit being a homeophobe.

Excellent; very droll, sir. ;)

Based on my homeopathy research and practice long ago, some homeopathic products at the level of mother tincture have some influence on the body same as say St. Johns wort, Echinacea etc. Others are totally useless - more like placebo. Higher dilution does not have any magic in them.

The thought that a single molecule could create a massive reaction in the body does not take in to account that the body does not have sensors to measure at that level. That is why herpes virus stays dormant at lower concentration (besides having a benign protein coating) and the body does not react. It is unlikely that a single molecule of Hypericum (St. Johns Wort) will do anything....

Quit being a homeophobe.

BaDa Bing! Thankyou very much.

you know its interesting how the phsycology of healing works

on the one hand you have natural healing plants etc. which for the most part , while healing , gives what the body needs in the first place

while on the other hand you have the pharmas , which NEVER give what what the body needs and have destructive side affects

I'll go natural

Obviously most posters here have never tried a homeopathic remedy.

Obviously most posters here have never tried a homeopathic remedy.

that's because the ones who did try it died and no longer post

you know its interesting how the phsycology of healing works

on the one hand you have natural healing plants etc. which for the most part , while healing , gives what the body needs in the first place

while on the other hand you have the pharmas , which NEVER give what what the body needs and have destructive side affects

I'll go natural

Disease and death are perfectly natural.

That's absurd. Water is water. Which unexplainable properties has it? How are the statistical advantages of homeopathy different from idiopathic recovery rates?

Well, hell. People can rattle homeopathy all they want, but me...

I am horribly allergic to poision ivy. I don't even have to touch the stuff. And god forbid someone burns some along with the weeds in their yards. The rash could close my eyes, freeze my hands, even make it hard for me to go the bathroom. Pain, low fever, agony.

Western med - prednisone. IOW a steroid. IOW something even the doctors with their minimal conserns about long term challenges to the immune system disliked giving to me, especially as a kid.

Then someone said try Rhus tox. homeopathic. I had never even heard of homeopathy for such a thing. Bang, the rash goes away way before I even get to the worst oozing sore nightmare stage. Never had a problem since.

Now why the placebo effect worked with this better than the placebo effect + plus action worked with the prednison, I don't know. But the stuff does not damage my immune system and it works faster than the steroids ever did.

Knock on wood I just don't need meds much of any kind, but unless we are talking things like bullet holes, there is a good chance I will give homeopathy first dibs on my next ailment.

james im currently operning the video however you know well my feelings about homeopathy. For starters there initial premis is illogical, to say that you can dilute a substance to the point that it has no side effects while at the same time saying that the dilution makes it more effective makes no sense. This is further highlighted if you read the back of a homeopathic pain killers packet. They state on the back that for a mild headache take one tablet, for server take 2. Well if there theory could hold water (parden the pun) then wouldnt that be backwards? ie take 2 for mild and 1 for server?



Potentisation is a pharmaceutical process of preparing a homeopathy medicine. It involves preparation of a liquid base substance (called Mother Tincture) from adding the original drug substance in a hydro-alcoholic (double distilled water-95% pure medicinal ethanol mixed in a particular ratio) solution or sugar of milk (lactose) if it is insoluble, successive serial dilution (makes drug chemically non-toxic) and succussion/trituration of the mixture after each dilution.

Potentisation is a pharmaceutical process of preparing a homeopathy medicine.
Nope. "Potentisation" is a piece of specious double-talk in the hopes that people will believe there's some sort of science involved.
As opposed to the reality: no science whatsoever.

james im currently operning the video however you know well my feelings about homeopathy. For starters there initial premis is illogical, to say that you can dilute a substance to the point that it has no side effects while at the same time saying that the dilution makes it more effective makes no sense. This is further highlighted if you read the back of a homeopathic pain killers packet. They state on the back that for a mild headache take one tablet, for server take 2. Well if there theory could hold water (parden the pun) then wouldnt that be backwards? ie take 2 for mild and 1 for server?

Further more one person sort to argue that vacinations were proof that the theory works. However they are wrong, vacinations work by exposure which alows the body to build up antibodies to the disease or by a direct injection of antibodies. So yes technically they could argue that its "like beating like" however for the people who do argue this i offer a challange. Come to my house and i will cut an artery in your arm, then you can chose your treatment. Either a) i will provide pressure to the wound to induce clotting, transport to hospital where the wound can be stiched up ect. or you can chose option b and actually put your theory to the test. In the other arm i will make a small cut to one of the minor arteriols and we can watch and see if like cures like

Or we could try cutting off your arm and then cutting the finger off the other arm and seeing if that fixes the missing arm before you bleed to death. Or should that be making a small cut on the other arm in the same spot?

or we could try shock, i will drain 3 L of your blood and then put a drop of that blood into 4 L of pure water and put it back into you and watch you die from all your cells exploding

HEHEHEE finally finished downloading the video:p

Hahahaha, EPIC post. Go Asguard. :D

Status of homeopathy medicine around the world

Development, Status, WHO, Time-Line, Popularity, Quotes on homeopathy

Europe, America, Asia, Australia, Middle East, Africa

France, Germany, UK, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Ireland, USA, Canada, Brazil, Columbia, Argentina, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, New Zealand, Israel, South Africa

http://u.voizle.com/homeopathy3

http://ubuymypoop.com

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/dilution.png

http://xkcd.com/765/

(mouse-over text from image)
Dear editors of Homeopathy Monthly: I have two small corrections for your July issue. One, it's spelled "echinacea", and two, homeopathic medicines are no better than placebos and your entire magazine is a sham.

Status of homeopathy medicine around the world...


Oh, it’s easy to do that. Quite a number of scientific meta-analyses of homeopathic treatments have been performed and published in peer-reviewed scientific and medical journals now. I could quote from any of them (they all conclude the same thing), but one of the most recent concludes....


The findings of currently available Cochrane reviews of studies of homeopathy do not show that homeopathic medicines have effects beyond placebo.

Homeopathy: what does the "best" evidence tell us?
Ernst E.
Med J Aust. 2010 Apr 19;192(8):458-60.

What a priceless sketch! Brilliant.

Just remember that drugs such as Asprin, Digitalis and a whole host of cancer fighting compounds (Yew) are in daily use, saving lives everywhere in the world. About 70% of our medicine is derived from plants incl Valerian (plant), Ergot (fungus), Penecillin (fungus) Erethromyocin (fungus) Metronidazole (fungus), St Johns' Wort (plant), Morphine (plant) and too many others to mention. If you were to omit remedies found in nature, you would deny yourself some serious life-giving drugs.

Edit* Coke, heroin, weed tobacco and alcohol all come from plants/fungus. Wanna tell me they don't work?

What a priceless sketch! Brilliant.

Just remember that drugs such as Asprin, Digitalis and a whole host of cancer fighting compounds (Yew) are in daily use, saving lives everywhere in the world. About 70% of our medicine is derived from plants incl Valerian (plant), Ergot (fungus), Penecillin (fungus) Erethromyocin (fungus) Metronidazole (fungus), St Johns' Wort (plant), Morphine (plant) and too many others to mention. If you were to omit remedies found in nature, you would deny yourself some serious life-giving drugs.

What has that to do with homeopathy?

What has that to do with homeopathy?

Because if you took them at natural strength (esp digitalis and ergot) you WOULD die.

Belladonna (Deadly Nightshade) contains atropine. If you were in cardiac failiure you would need this, but only in tiny quantities.

True but how is that relivent? If you drank water in the volume its avilable in nature you would drown, everything has a correct dosage, that has nothing to do with homopathy

Actually, I think it was Strichnine, the opposite of atropine, beer wins, memory fails.

Because homeopathy is supposed to utilise the undisputed healing drugs found in plants. Who cares if it's diluted a million to one - If a lethal dose is ten million to one, it's still too strong.

Case in point, 10ug of ricin will kill you in 48 hours. 1ug of ricin and you can develop inti-ricin, allowing you to survive higher doses. (figs approx).

Because homeopathy is supposed to utilise the undisputed healing drugs found in plants. Who cares if it's diluted a million to one - If a lethal dose is ten million to one, it's still too strong.

That's not what homeopathy is.


Homeopathy is a form of alternative medicine, first proposed by German physician Samuel Hahnemann in 1796, in which practitioners use highly[2][3] diluted preparations. Based on an ipse dixit[4] axiom[5] formulated by Hahnemann, which he called the law of similars, preparations which cause certain symptoms in healthy individuals are given in diluted form to patients exhibiting similar symptoms. Homeopathic remedies are prepared by serial dilution with shaking by forceful striking, which homeopaths term succussion, after each dilution under the assumption that this increases the effect. Homeopaths call this process potentization. Dilution often continues until none of the original substance remains.
Read further for more nonsense. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy)

The belief that disease is a disturbance in the "vital force" is enough to consign the lot of it to the trash bin.

That's not what homeopathy is.
Read further for more nonsense. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy)
The belief that disease is a disturbance in the "vital force" is enough to consign the lot of it to the trash bin.

Ok, fair enough. But I was brought up using plants such as fewerfew (for migraines), Fennel for upset stomach, etc etc. We called this homeothapy. Used properly, the plants and fungi I mentioned are vital weapons in our arsenal. If people are going to use natural drugs, maybe they ought to educate themselves a bit first?

Ok, fair enough. But I was brought up using plants such as fewerfew (for migraines), Fennel for upset stomach, etc etc. We called this homeothapy.

No way, why you would take an established word (and meaning) and use it to mean something else? Unless you correctly spelled it as Homeothapy?

Are you trying to pull a fast one? :)

Ok, fair enough. But I was brought up using plants such as fewerfew (for migraines), Fennel for upset stomach, etc etc. We called this homeothapy. Used properly, the plants and fungi I mentioned are vital weapons in our arsenal. If people are going to use natural drugs, maybe they ought to educate themselves a bit first?

I think you might be getting Naturopathy and Homeopathy confused. Naturopathy is what indigenous peoples, Chinese medicine, etc. is all about, homeopathy, that is something all together different.

I'm not willing to weigh in on homeopathy. I used to be 100% sure it was all quackery. . . however, there are now some new investigations into the nature of water and how it takes on properties of consciousness, which make me wonder that it might not have anything to do with "chemicals" at all, or the substance that was in the water. . . It might have more to do with the actual water in fact. Who knows. :shrug:


Naturopathy (also known as naturopathic medicine or natural medicine) is an alternative medical system that focuses on natural remedies and the body's vitalistic ability to heal and maintain itself.[1][2] The term "naturopathy" is derived from Greek and Latin translated as "nature disease".[3] Naturopathic philosophy favors a holistic approach and minimal use of surgery and drugs.

Modern naturopathy grew out of the Natural Cure movement of Europe.[4][5] The term was coined in 1895 by John Scheel and popularized by Benedict Lust,[6] the "father of U.S. naturopathy".[7] Beginning in the 1970s, there was a revival of interest in the United States and Canada in conjunction with the holistic health movement.[2][7]

Naturopathic practitioners are split into two groups, traditional naturopaths and naturopathic physicians.[3] Naturopathy comprises many different treatment modalities of varying degrees of acceptance by the medical community; these treatments range from standard evidence-based diet and lifestyle advice, to homeopathy and other practices often characterized as pseudoscience or quackery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathy

Drugs need not be in bulk doses like allopathy to be effective. Even nano concentrations can be effective.

Finally, the proof of pudding lies in eating it. From age of 17 I suffered periodic paralysis of legs and arms. Allopathy failed to cure it, rather even know what it was. All the specialist told was it is a form of paralysis. Which I anyway knew. But then a homeo doctor gave me a set of four drugs to try. And I was OK in a few days. Earlier the bouts were frequent, but with homeo treatment, frequency went on reducing. It is now 10 years ago that I had a very, very mild attack.

There are certain words which tell all about those who use them.

Words that reveal with 100% certainty that their user is a crackpot include :
allopathy
wellness
holistic

The one thing that all alternative therapies have in common is that they are not tested and demonstrated within scientifically acceptable levels of evidence to be effective. This is true of most naturopathy, and of all homeopathy.

Naturopathy is a bit of a mish mash. Unlike homeopathy, it is not a single philosophy of treatment, but a grab bag of anything that 'seemed to be a good idea at the time'. A few small bits are OK, such as good diet and exercise. Most is bullsh!t. Coffee enemas - you gotta be crazy to accept one. Detox programs. Not one shred of good scientific evidence, and they have been tested by good science many times. Plus a mass of other crap.

Herbalism is a favourite of those who pretend to science, but like to be alternative. A few herbs have some limited value, like St. Johns Wort for mild depression. However, the vast bulk of herbs used by herbalists have either not been properly tested, or have failed scientific tests. Some have proved to be quite harmful. Even the 'good' herbs are ridiculously variable. The active ingredients can vary by orders of magnitude from one dose to the next, making any benefit problematic.

But at the end of the day, homeopathy is the ultimate bullsh!t.

Personally, I will stick to orthodox medicine. If there is harm, that harm is well researched, and I can know about it. And nothing is offered that does not work, at least some of the time. I have an eye condition, that causes me enormous pain when it strikes. I have tried a wide range of methods of fixing it. The only thing that works is a type of steroid given as eye drops. It is a bloody miracle! Vive la steroid!

I'm not willing to weigh in on homeopathy. I used to be 100% sure it was all quackery. . . however, there are now some new investigations into the nature of water and how it takes on properties of consciousness, which make me wonder that it might not have anything to do with "chemicals" at all, or the substance that was in the water. . . It might have more to do with the actual water in fact. Who knows. :shrug:There are always "new investigations" into these ridiculous things, especially when they are struggling for funding and are, at least in the UK, in danger of losing all government funding (and rightly so, imho).

Research in 2005 showed that liquid water basically loses the memory of persistent correlations in its structure within 50 femtoseconds - that is 50 millionths of a nanosecond... or 50 millionths of a billionth of a second.

Water is water. It has no persistent memory.

Homeopathy is hocum. It is a fraud. It should be condemned as such.
The sooner the governments stop funding this waste of time and effort the better.

If it was genuine, why do we in the UK not suffer from all the impurities in our drinking water?
There is probably more active ingredient in the air than there is in any of the remedies.


The only benefits apparent from the multitude of tests conducted are placebo and the benefit of a doctor actually listening... i.e. homeopaths tend to spend longer with a patient, almost acting as a therapist.

With regard the effectiveness of what is physically consumed... it's drivel (imho).

homeopathy is a word used by good psychologists to say, "Don't smoke so much marijuana, or do too many drugs":m:

Why? You will screw with your brain chemistry.

Then the crazy medical people applied it wrongly to all kinds of placebos. I guess drugs aren't the only thing that can screw with your brain chemistry.

Drugs need not be in bulk doses like allopathy to be effective.

Homeopathy involves giving people water, not drugs of any dosage.



Even nano concentrations can be effective.

Of course. Nearly all modern pharmaceuticals are developed and formulated to work at nanomolar concentrations.



Finally, the proof of pudding lies in eating it.

Well, if by that adage you are trying to suggest that your anecdotal story constitutes scientific evidence supporting homeopathy, then no it doesn’t.