The story that caught my eye was of the woman who was gang-raped, then set alight with kerosene after recognising one of her attackers. She was able to give a death-bed statement, but this was hidden by the police until local family and radio stations kicked up a fuss about it (allegedly).

Further reading of the article.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13835838 went on do describe other horrendous attacks on women.

What the hell is going on? I was raised to protect and to help women and girls, particularly if in distress. What are the authorities doing trying to hide such reports, it's absolutely disgusting.

I know, India's a big place with a huge population and bad things happen, but I thought India wanted to become civillised, to join the first world. I thought in India they respected their womenfolk. Maybe I was wrong.

The story that caught my eye was of the woman who was gang-raped, then set alight with kerosene after recognising one of her attackers. She was able to give a death-bed statement, but this was hidden by the police until local family and radio stations kicked up a fuss about it (allegedly).

Further reading of the article.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13835838 went on do describe other horrendous attacks on women.

What the hell is going on? I was raised to protect and to help women and girls, particularly if in distress. What are the authorities doing trying to hide such reports, it's absolutely disgusting.

I know, India's a big place with a huge population and bad things happen, but I thought India wanted to become civillised, to join the first world. I thought in India they respected their womenfolk. Maybe I was wrong.

India is truly one messed of place! In many ways, it doesn't even qualify as a third-rate country - by a long shot.:eek:

The story that caught my eye was of the woman who was gang-raped, then set alight with kerosene after recognising one of her attackers. She was able to give a death-bed statement, but this was hidden by the police until local family and radio stations kicked up a fuss about it (allegedly).

Further reading of the article.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13835838 went on do describe other horrendous attacks on women.

What the hell is going on? I was raised to protect and to help women and girls, particularly if in distress. What are the authorities doing trying to hide such reports, it's absolutely disgusting.

I know, India's a big place with a huge population and bad things happen, but I thought India wanted to become civillised, to join the first world. I thought in India they respected their womenfolk. Maybe I was wrong.

Firstly there are sick people in every country and religion and ethnicity. Jack the ripper, manson, the bodies in the barrels murders.

Secondly the cops may have been investigating still in order to gather more evidence or to identify the others

Lastly even if the cops wernt doing there best that doesn't make the whole country to blame, more likly a couple of lazy cops who couldn't be bothered

Bothers me...although it's the response of the police that bothers me as much or more.

This occurred in '06 though...maybe it's the province's police:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6119928.stm

Here's the deal.
The fact that one of the most religious countries in the world has all these problems (utter disregard for women, corruption, honor killings - to name a few), reflects the horrific and completely selfish outlook of the populus (also that religion fails to give us morality, but I won't go there).
These incidences are so commonplace now that no one gives a rat's behind anymore. How many will you support?
Also, we only get to know those which get the to the media.

Police force becomes a failure if all they want to do is earn some money and get home early. Very few want to really serve the nation let alone protect civilians.

Rape is only a thimble of the actual dark and hideously ugly underbelly of the culture superpower India projects itself to be.

Good in parts but mostly horrible.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that India is the country with the most sexploitation.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that India is the country with the most sexploitation.

I don't know about that, perhaps. Given the size of population compared to other sex-destinations like Cambodia, Thailand etc. Life seems to sell pretty cheap out there. If this had happened in London or New York it would be the top of the news, sensationalised no doubt. I've written enough sensational headlines to realise their value, but over there in India I don't know if this even caused much more than a ripple.
It never ceases to amaze me how people manage to sink ever further into grotesquesness, it's very sad.

The story that caught my eye was of the woman who was gang-raped, then set alight with kerosene after recognising one of her attackers. She was able to give a death-bed statement, but this was hidden by the police until local family and radio stations kicked up a fuss about it (allegedly).

Further reading of the article.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13835838 went on do describe other horrendous attacks on women.

What the hell is going on? I was raised to protect and to help women and girls, particularly if in distress. What are the authorities doing trying to hide such reports, it's absolutely disgusting.

I know, India's a big place with a huge population and bad things happen, but I thought India wanted to become civillised, to join the first world. I thought in India they respected their womenfolk. Maybe I was wrong.

American's do this too. Heck, American's will even do it in other countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings

The problem is not unique to India.

Well, in our home country, the men usually only gang-rape.
Well, maybe they murder too.

They just don't kill them with fire...

Interesting fact - 9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape.....

Well, in our home country, the men usually only gang-rape.
Well, maybe they murder too.

They just don't kill them with fire...

Oh well I guess killing them softly makes it OK. With a song perhaps.

The story that caught my eye was of the woman who was gang-raped, then set alight with kerosene after recognising one of her attackers. She was able to give a death-bed statement, but this was hidden by the police until local family and radio stations kicked up a fuss about it (allegedly)....

gang rapes happen in the USA. Judges send some of those women to jail for bein rude

Unfortunately rapes happen all the time all over the world. How is it that we happen to hear about these particular rapes? Partly because sexually repressed Indians are more Interested in rape than some other people, partly because the British and the West unconsciously want to feel superior to the brown people and are using western feminism's achievements to feel superior and partly because the rapes are being used in BJP vs BSP Indian political Drama.


I suspect that Indian rape more than the statistics show and I suspect that the crime rate in India will increase as India becomes more modern and anonymous. Anonymousness is on of the reasons that the USA has such a high crime rate.

While the BBC might think their audience will enjoy stories about uncivilized Indians who are barbaric to women the BBC does not mention that officially (old data) there are 10 times more rapes per capita in the UK than in India. Of course girls can't get date raped if they are not allowed to date.

Further below I look at the sources for the BBC story. There is a political aspect in the type of reporting in the Indian media that the BBC likely got their story from. I used Ultra's (the OP's) link to find context for the BBC story that the OP linked to. I think the BJP is India's version of the American Republican party because I think it has a similar coalition of traditionalism, patriotism, religious (in this case Hinduism) fundamentalism, fear and dislike of minorities the poor and foreign rivals (Pakistan), law and order, and class war by the wealthier and those who identify with the wealthier against the poorer. Since the Caste system and the right of high caste to abuse and perhaps even rape lower caste people is part of traditionalism the BJP would be the party that is most resistant to reformers attempts to destroy the caste system.

Uttar Pradesh is a state known for the most intense Hindu nationalism and the most entrenched caste system.

The BJP type people had been blamed in the past for allowing the wealthy, the high caste and the police to abuse and rape the low caste, the Musliim Christian or Buddhist and the poor. Now the BJP supporters are saying look at how under the BSP control the police don't even protect law and order andthe low caste get raped. See you low caste were better of letting the BJP govern than having government by the BSP that was formed to protect the poor and low caste from high caste and wealthy corruption. These rape stories are part of the BJP's attempt to accuse the BSP of being a dishonest failure.

Perhaps even some of the rapes may be in part motivated by higher caste, wealthy and police resentments at the attempt by the weak to end their privileges. I don't really believe the standard western psychological argument that rape is about power and not about sex. Sure power may often play a role but if a man gets an erection then sex was part of the rape. Men generally behave and don't force themselves on women but if you give men any excuse to rape then watch out because sex drive is quite a force.

Below from http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

Showing latest available data.
Rank**
Countries**
Amount**

# 1 *
**South Africa:
1.19538 per 1,000 people*

# 2 *
**Seychelles:
0.788294 per 1,000 people*

# 3 *
**Australia:
0.777999 per 1,000 people*

# 4 *
**Montserrat:
0.749384 per 1,000 people*

# 5 *
**Canada:
0.733089 per 1,000 people*

# 6 *
**Jamaica:
0.476608 per 1,000 people*

# 7 *
**Zimbabwe:
0.457775 per 1,000 people*

# 8 *
**Dominica:
0.34768 per 1,000 people*

# 9 *
**United States:
0.301318 per 1,000 people*

# 10 *
**Iceland:
0.246009 per 1,000 people*

# 11 *
**Papua New Guinea:
0.233544 per 1,000 people*

# 12 *
**New Zealand:
0.213383 per 1,000 people*

# 13 *
**United Kingdom:
0.142172 per 1,000 people*

# 14 *
**Spain:
0.140403 per 1,000 people*

# 15 *
**France:
0.139442 per 1,000 people*

# 16 *
**Korea, South:
0.12621 per 1,000 people*

# 17 *
**Mexico:
0.122981 per 1,000 people*

# 18 *
**Norway:
0.120836 per 1,000 people*

# 19 *
**Costa Rica:
0.118277 per 1,000 people*

# 20 *
**Venezuela:
0.115507 per 1,000 people*

# 21 *
**Finland:
0.110856 per 1,000 people*

# 22 *
**Netherlands:
0.100445 per 1,000 people*

# 23 *
**Denmark:
0.0914948 per 1,000 people*

# 24 *
**Germany:
0.0909731 per 1,000 people*

# 25 *
**Bulgaria:
0.0795973 per 1,000 people*

# 26 *
**Chile:
0.0782179 per 1,000 people*

# 27 *
**Thailand:
0.0626305 per 1,000 people*

# 28 *
**Kyrgyzstan:
0.0623785 per 1,000 people*

# 29 *
**Poland:
0.062218 per 1,000 people*

# 30 *
**Sri Lanka:
0.0599053 per 1,000 people*

# 31 *
**Hungary:
0.0588588 per 1,000 people*

# 32 *
**Estonia:
0.0547637 per 1,000 people*

# 33 *
**Ireland:
0.0542829 per 1,000 people*

# 34 *
**Switzerland:
0.0539458 per 1,000 people*

# 35 *
**Belarus:
0.0514563 per 1,000 people*

# 36 *
**Uruguay:
0.0512295 per 1,000 people*

# 37 *
**Lithuania:
0.0508757 per 1,000 people*

# 38 *
**Malaysia:
0.0505156 per 1,000 people*

# 39 *
**Romania:
0.0497089 per 1,000 people*

# 40 *
**Czech Republic:
0.0488234 per 1,000 people*

# 41 *
**Russia:
0.0486543 per 1,000 people*

# 42 *
**Latvia:
0.0454148 per 1,000 people*

# 43 *
**Moldova:
0.0448934 per 1,000 people*

# 44 *
**Colombia:
0.0433254 per 1,000 people*

# 45 *
**Slovenia:
0.0427648 per 1,000 people*

# 46 *
**Italy:
0.0402045 per 1,000 people*

# 47 *
**Portugal:
0.0364376 per 1,000 people*

# 48 *
**Tunisia:
0.0331514 per 1,000 people*

# 49 *
**Zambia:
0.0266383 per 1,000 people*

# 50 *
**Ukraine:
0.0244909 per 1,000 people*

# 51 *
**Slovakia:
0.0237525 per 1,000 people*

# 52 *
**Mauritius:
0.0219334 per 1,000 people*

# 53 *
**Turkey:
0.0180876 per 1,000 people*

# 54 *
**Japan:
0.017737 per 1,000 people*

# 55 *
**Hong Kong:
0.0150746 per 1,000 people*

# 56 *
**India:
0.0143187 per 1,000 people*

# 57 *
**Qatar:
0.0139042 per 1,000 people*

# 58 *
**Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of:
0.0132029 per 1,000 people*

# 59 *
**Greece:
0.0106862 per 1,000 people*

# 60 *
**Georgia:
0.0100492 per 1,000 people*

# 61 *
**Armenia:
0.00938652 per 1,000 people*

# 62 *
**Indonesia:
0.00567003 per 1,000 people*

# 63 *
**Yemen:
0.0038597 per 1,000 people*

# 64 *
**Azerbaijan:
0.00379171 per 1,000 people*

# 65 *
**Saudi Arabia:
0.00329321 per 1,000 people*


Weighted average:
0.1 per 1,000 people**



DEFINITION:*Total recorded*rapes.*Crime*statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report*crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000*population.

SOURCE:*Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)








Kannauj/Lucknow: Days after the Lakhimpur incident, a Dalit girl was stabbed in the eyes allegedly by two youths when she resisted a rape attempt and another teenager from the community sexually assaulted at gunpoint.
The incident in the state has prompted the opposition to intensify its attack on the Mayawati government.

Kuldeep (18) and Niranjan Yadav (17) attempted to rape the 14-year-old girl when she had gone out in connection with some work in Gadwa Buzurg village in Gursahaiganj area in Kannauj last evening, officials said, adding Niranjan has been arrested.

"When the girl raised an alarm, the duo attacked her with knives, piercing her left eye and injuring the other,"

Rajendra Singh, Superintendent of Police said, adding the girl has been referred to Kanpur for further treatment.

In the second incident, an 18-year-old dalit girl was allegedly raped by a youth in Ranipur Beladi village in Basti.

Satti Singh allegedly raped the girl at gun point on Saturday night, police said, adding a manhunt has been launched for the accused.

The Congress slammed the Mayawati government over the law and order situation in the state saying it had lost its moral right to continue after such incidents.

"Mayawati should be ashamed. People expected more from a woman chief minister but she doesn't have a word of sympathy. She tries to shelter the police. The criminals and the police are all hand in glove," state Congress chief Rita Bahuguna Joshi said.

But an unfazed Mayawati government said there is no breakdown of law and order in the state and stern and prompt action was being taken against the culprits. The Chief Minister accused the opposition and the media of trying to mislead the people by raking up "old cases".

"The opposition parties want to corner me and my party. But I want tell that I am not going to accept defeat due to opposition's tricks. Because, unlike other leaders I have not come to politics through dynasty. I have worked on the ground and suffered. I know how to fight in tough times," the BSP supremo said.

Secretary Information Prashant Trivedi alleged that Samajwadi Party workers were involved in the brutal stabbing of the teenage girl in Kannauj and that two police personnel have been suspended on charges of showing laxity.

The victim's family alleged that the police were not ready to record the girl's statement.

The girl's suffered around 80 per cent damage in the left eye and might not regain normal vision again as the cornea has been affected, a doctor at a local hospital said after examining the girl.

Two police personnel - sub-inspector Shiv Shanker Singh and constable Fakhruddin - have been placed under suspension on charges of laxity.

"The two policemen neither informed the senior officers nor carried out standard procedure as they failed to realise the seriousness of the issue," SP Rajendra Singh said.

Sub-divisional Magistrate Manoj Singhal said financial assistance would be given to the girl from the Chief Minister's Relief Fund.

Terming the Kannuaj incident as "shocking and barbaric", the National Commission for the Protection of Child Rights on Sunday said it had taken suo motu cognisance of the case and will write to the state authorities seeking a report on the matter.

BJP leader Uma Bharti accused the BSP government of patronining criminal elements and asked the Chief Minister to seek apology for the Lakhimpur incident.

After the emergence of Mayawati in UP, the dalits and the women had hoped for a better future. "However, the way in which these particular sections have fallen prey to repression clearly indicated the BSP is losing its foothold everywhere," she said.

Bharti deplored the "poor" law and order situation in UP.

The BSP government has come under intense criticism over the Lakhimpur Kheri incident in which a 14-year-old girl was allegedly raped and murdered and her body found hanging inside Nighasan police station premises on June 10. 11 police personnel were suspended after the incident.

The National Commission for Scheduled Castes had on Friday accused the policemen of raping and killing the teenager. The Uttar Pradesh government has also filed a status report before the Allahabad High Court on the CB-CID probe into the incident.




New Delhi, Jun 20: Launching a scathing attack on Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati and the Bahujan Samaj Party, Congress General Secretary Digvijay Singh has said that the law and order situation has completely collapsed in the northern state of India.

The former Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister said, "The BSP (Bahujan Samaj Party) government is supporting criminal elements in Uttar Pradesh. The police are demoralised and the law and order has collapsed."

And added, "The whole police structure has collapsed."

Singh was responding to reporters query on the various sexual crimes against women that has taken place in the state in the past few days.

In a fresh incident of sexual abuse in Uttar Pradesh, a 33-year-old woman was burnt alive on Jun 19 after allegedly being raped. The incident occurred in Etah district of Uttar Pradesh .

According to the family members of the woman's family, she was first gang-raped by five men, who then burnt her alive fearing that she might go to the police.

This incident came a day after a minor girl from Kannauj was allegedly stabbed in the eye after resisted rape on Jun 18.

Both the incidents have got extensive media coverage after an 18-year-old girl was allegedly raped at gunpoint in Ranipur Beladi village of Uttar Pradesh. Although a case has been registered, no headway has been achieved so far.

OneIndia News


Below from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayawati


Mayawati (Hindi: मायावती, Urdu: مایاوتی) (born 15 January 1956) is an Indian politician.[2] She is the current Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous state.[3][4] After three short tenures between 1995 and 2003, it is her fourth term in this office. Her supporters refer to her as Behen Ji, which means sister.[5] At age 39, she became the youngest politician to be elected chief minister in Uttar Pradesh and the first Dalit-woman chief minister of any Indian state.[5] She is regarded as a symbol of dignity and political inspiration for millions of India's Dalits who were oppressed by the Hindu upper castes for centuries.[5] There are allegations that she has used her status to amass a large amount of personal wealth. [6][7][5]

Mayawati was born in New Delhi at Shrimati Sucheta Kriplani Hospital,[2] to Ram Rati and Prabhu Das. Her family belonged to the scheduled caste Hindu Jatav subcaste of the Chamar community. Prabhu Das, her father, retired as section head from Postal department, Government of India.[2] Badalpur, Gautam Buddha Nagar, Uttar Pradesh is her ancestral village.[2]

Mayawati graduated in arts from Kalindi College of the University of Delhi. She holds bachelor's degrees in Law (from Delhi University) and Education (from VMLG College, Ghaziabad, Meerut University).[2] She worked as a teacher in Delhi (Inderpuri JJ Colony). In 1977, Dalit politician Kanshi Ram became very influential in her life resulting in her joining his core team when he founded the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) in 1984. Shortly after, she changed her career path and entered politics full time.

At Kanshi Ram's funeral ceremonies in 2006, Mayawati said they had both been following Buddhist traditions and customs.[8] Her act of performing the last rites (Hindi: दाह-संस्कार) of Kanshi Ram has set an example of her and Kanshi Ram's views against gender discrimination.[8] She said that she will convert to Buddhism after getting an absolute majority at the Centre. [8][9]

[edit]Political career

In 1984[10] Kanshi Ram founded the BSP as a party to represent the Dalits and Buddhists. Mayawati was a key member of this organization. BSP fielded Mayawati for its first election campaign from the Kairana Lok Sabha (Lower House) seat in the Muzaffarnagar district in 1984, and then again for the Lok Sabha seats of Bijnor in 1985 and Haridwar in 1987. In 1989 she was elected for Loksabha seat of Bijnor with a total of 1,83,189 votes.[11][12]

Although BSP did not win, the electoral experience led to considerable activity for Mayawati over the next five years, as she worked with Mahsood Ahmed and other organizers. In the 1989 election, the party won 9% of the popular vote and 13 seats. It won 11 seats in the 1991 election. Because the Dalits are widely spread over the state, Kanshi Ram and Mayawati then adopted a policy of attracting other groups, which continues today.

Mayawati won for the first time in the Lok Sabha elections of 1989 from Bijnor. In 1995, while a member of the Rajya Sabha (Upper House), she became a Chief Minister in a short-lived coalition government, and validated her position by winning from two constituencies in 1996. She was again Chief Minister for a short period in 1997, and then for a somewhat longer term in coalition with the Bharatiya Janata Party from 2002 to 2003. Before that in 2001 her mentor, Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) president Kanshi Ram named her as his successor. Mayawati has said in an interview that she has no time for family life or romantic relationships because she wants to focus on her political career and this is why she remains unmarried.[13]

[edit]2007 Uttar Pradesh Assembly elections
Contrary to some poll predictions, BSP won a majority in the 2007 elections, the first such majority since 1991. Mayawati managed to attract support from Brahmins, Thakurs, Muslims and members of other backward classes. These people voted for a Dalit party for the first time, partly because BSP had offered seats to people from these communities. The campaign was accompanied by a colorful slogan: Haathi nahin, Ganesh hain, Brahma, Vishnu Mahesh Hain: "The elephant (BSP Logo) is really the Lord Ganesha, the trinity of gods rolled into one". Her new slogan invited everyone, including the higher castes, to "come ride the elephant", her party's election symbol.[5]

[edit]Chief Minister, 2007
Mayawati was sworn in as Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh for the fourth time on 13 May 2007. She announced an agenda that focused on providing social justice to the weaker sections of society and providing employment instead of distributing money to the unemployed. Her slogan is to make "Uttar Pradesh" ("Northern Province") into "Uttam Pradesh" ("Excellent Province").

In 2007 Mayawati's government began a major crackdown on irregularities in the recruitment process of police officers recruited during the previous Mulayam Singh government. So far 17,868 policemen have lost their jobs for irregularities in the recruitment process and 25 IPS officers were suspended for their involvement in corruption while recruiting the police constables.[14][15] Mayawati is instituting reforms to introduce transparency into the recruiting process, including posting results of selection exams online.[16]

As part of her social reform plans she advocates reservation for the poor among upper castes in addition to reservation for weaker sections of society. Reservation in India is a system whereby a percentage of government positions and seats in all universities are reserved for persons in backward classes and scheduled castes and tribes.[17]

[edit]2009 parliamentary elections
Mayawati's BSP did not meet expectations[by whom?] in the 2009 general elections. The BSP, which was expected to win more than 35 seats[why?] in Lok Sabha from the state of Uttar Pradesh, succeeded in winning only 20 seats. The BSP obtained the highest percentage (27. 42%) of votes in Uttar Pradesh for any one political party. It was in third position in terms of national polling percentage (6.17%).[18]

[edit]Political and legal issues

[edit]Taj corridor case
See also: Taj corridor case
In 2003, the CBI raided Mayawati's residence in relation to the Taj corridor case, two days after it had filed an First Information Report against her.[19] This led to discovery of assets disproportionate to her known income.[20][21]

[edit]Birthdays
Mayawati's past birthdays have been major media events, where she appeared laden with diamonds.[5] Her supporters have declared her birthday as Jan Kalyankari Diwas (People's Welfare Day). In 2009, the day was marked by the announcement of welfare schemes targeted towards poor and downtrodden people of the state. [22] Her 2010 birthday was marked by the launch of programmes with a value of over Rs 7,312 crores.[23]

[edit]Disproportionate assets case
Mayawati's assets run into millions of dollars with several properties to her name.[5] In 2007-08 assessment year, Mayawati paid an income tax of Rupees 26 crores, ranking among the top 20 taxpayers in the country. Earlier the CBI had filed a case against her for owning assets disproportionate to her known sources of income. Mayawati described the CBI investigation against her as illegal.[24] Her party asserts that her income comes from gifts and small contributions made by party workers and supporters.[25][26] Some of the assets uncovered by the CBI in 2003 were:

41 agricultural plots
16 residential plots
7 shops
3 orchards
2 shops-cum-residences located in and around Delhi
1 mansion in her ancestral village of Badalpur, built on a 30,000-square-yard (25,000 m2) estate.[27]
While the source of the funds was given as voluntary donations, CBI found at least 50 sweepers, hawkers, and rickshaw-pullers who had been asked to open bank accounts and sign blank cheques from which these funds eventually originated.[28][29]

[edit]Statues
In her tenures as a Chief Minister, Mayawati erected number of statues of Buddhist and Dalit icons like Bhimrao Ambedkar, Shahuji Maharaj, Gautam Buddha, BSP founder Kanshi Ram, and of herself.[30] The statues and the memorial parks in which they are erected are said to have cost the state Rs. 2000 crore.[31] The Supreme Court of India admitted a Public Interest Litigation questioning this expenditure. She maintains that the statues are symbols of Dalit assertion and the expenditure was required because the past governments did not show respect towards Dalit icons, in whose memory nothing was ever built.[32] In February 2010, Mayawati's government approved a plan for a special police force to protect the statues. She feared that her political opponents might demolish the statues.[33] There are incidents of vandalism of statues of Dalit icon Dr. Bhimrao Ambedkar in India.[34][35][36][37]

[edit]Other
Kanshi Ram, head of the Bahujan Samaj Party, praised Mayawati at her 47th birthday celebrations for her fundraising activities on behalf of the party. He stated that the party's eventual goal is to gain power in Delhi, and that Mayawati's efforts help in that quest.[38]

Mayawati's public meetings are attended by large audiences, using slogans such as "Kanshi Ram ka mission Adhoora; karegi Behen Mayawati poora" (Kanshi Ram's unfulfilled mission will be completed by Mayawati), "Behenji tum sangharsh karo; hum tumhare saath hain" (Sister, go ahead with your struggle; we are with you).[39]

[edit]

Unfortunately rapes happen all the time all over the world. How is it that we happen to hear about these particular rapes? Partly because sexually repressed Indians are more Interested in rape than some other people, partly because the British and the West unconsciously want to feel superior to the brown people and are using western feminism's achievements to feel superior and partly because the rapes are being used in BJP vs BSP Indian political Drama.

I'd take those stats with a grain of salt, particularly in more disadvantaged countries and in those in which it's essentially illegal to be sexually assaulted.

While the BBC might think their audience will enjoy stories about uncivilized Indians who are barbaric to women the BBC does not mention that officially (old data) there are 10 times more rapes per capita in the UK than in India. Of course girls can't get date raped if they are not allowed to date.


If a woman's highly likely to suffer serious social consequences for reporting, she probably won't report.

Would a woman in India who publicly admitted to being raped still be considered marriageable? Or would she be "damaged goods," the way she would have been in the US in, say the 1940's-1950's?

Good post nirakar. In India like anywhere else, rape is underreported, but it is still lower than many western nations because of the structure of the society. Women live in a generally protected environment and exploitation is higher at either extreme of society, dalit women and career women facing greater exposure to occasions where they can be victimised. Most middle class women do not travel by themselves but en famille and as you said, are not likely to date, go out unescorted to places frequented by predators or be ambushed by strangers. Still, the stats for rape by a known person are probably the same

In UP - the heartland of Hindutva - it is indeed very much a caste issue and you've already given the information on it.

if you google dalit+rape+Uttar Pradesh you will see some horrific stories

Good post nirakar. In India like anywhere else, rape is underreported, but it is still lower than many western nations because of the structure of the society. Women live in a generally protected environment and exploitation is higher at either extreme of society, dalit women and career women facing greater exposure to occasions where they can be victimised. Most middle class women do not travel by themselves but en famille and as you said, are not likely to date, go out unescorted to places frequented by predators or be ambushed by strangers.

Given that "stranger rape" is only a very small percentage of rapes, this reasoning looks dubious to me. Most rapes are perpetrated by people known to the victim - friends, co-workers, even family. Avoiding dark alleys where unknown predators will leap out and rape lone women doesn't actually do much to reduce your odds of being raped.

"Occasions where they can be victimized" should properly refer to instances wherein women are deprived of social status and/or agency. It has almost nothing to do with walking alone through seedy areas at night or whatever. It has everything to do with regarding women as property, valuing their word below that of a man, etc. The premise that patriarchal restrictions on women are necessary to "protect their honor" is a delusion cultivated to reinforce patriarchy - not least by making said women subject to exactly the groups most likely to rape them.



Still, the stats for rape by a known person are probably the same

And since those are the lion's share of rapes - even in the immoral West where women go on dates and walk alone through seedy parts of town at night in revealing clothing - the overall stats for rape are probably the same.

Most rapes are perpetrated by people known to the victim - friends, co-workers, even family

True. But only a small percentage of women live alone - most Indians have large families and live together so being raped by family or friends or co-workers is restricted simply by having 5-10 other people present. Plus we still have the system of door to door sales, for example, we get our water, bread, milk, paper, garbage, groceries, medicines, etc delivered on a daily basis - and we have the same people or their families doing it for the last four decades - and it is quite common to leave the door unlocked and open during the day, which means there is a constant traffic of people coming in and going out

It is really hard to be alone in India.

True. But only a small percentage of women live alone

Living alone is not a risk factor for rape. The idea that it is, is just another iteration of the patriarchal canard.



- most Indians have large families and live together so being raped by family or friends or co-workers is restricted simply by having 5-10 other people present.

If you have 5+ people present literally all the time, that probably works.

To the extent that there occasions when one or two of said males are in a private situation with said woman, that all might actually increase the odds of rape.



Plus we still have the system of door to door sales, for example, we get our water, bread, milk, paper, garbage, groceries, medicines, etc delivered on a daily basis - and we have the same people or their families doing it for the last four decades - and it is quite common to leave the door unlocked and open during the day, which means there is a constant traffic of people coming in and going out

All of those are risk factors for rape. Again, knowing someone - even, knowing someone's entire family - doesn't reduce the risk of them raping you.



It is really hard to be alone in India.

By definition, you can't get raped while alone. It's being around other people that is the risk factor - especially if you have a reduced social status relative to the males you're around.

I can see a pervasive lack of privacy (as opposed to, "loneliness") mitigating this, though.

To the extent that there occasions when one or two of said males are in a private situation with said woman, that all might actually increase the odds of rape.

Yes, those are the kinds of opportunities that make the statistics. Also male servants [although we have had male servants since I was a kid and they escorted us everywhere], visitors, salespeople etc.

But since structurally we live in joint families, it means that apart from grandparents, there are unmarried siblings of grandparents, aunts, cousins, sisters and female relatives who have no means of support that are generally present in most families. This is especially true in North India where a lot of men who work in cities leave the females and elderly males and kids at home with relatives. Also in Kerala where almost everyone seems to be in the Gulf.

Basically the rape rates are lower because the opportunities are limited. Not only would the woman need to be unchaperoned, you'd have to lock the door, hope there are no neighbours who will pop in for chai, no sales person who comes on a regular basis, no kids who fight and come looking for consolation [along with all their friends] etc etc etc. And yes, there are still plenty of rapes so clearly people can get these opportunities. And it will increase as families get smaller and more urbanised - I have my own room now but its only because most of my family lives abroad or has moved to their own apartments. As kids, we had one family per room

Basically the rape rates are lower because the opportunities are limited.

Wait - have we established that the underlying rate of rapes is actually lower in India than in wherever else? Because all we actually know is that the rate of rape reports is lower - and we also know very well that the likelihood of reporting depends on a whole host of cultural and legal factors. Absent some data to demonstrate that the likelihood of a rape getting reported in India is the same as whatever country you want to compare to, there is no reasonable way to conclude that the actual rate of rape is truly lower.

There's a lot of perverse things that happen with rape reporting - many of the places with the highest reported rates actually have the lowest rate of rapes. This is exactly because they're much more empowering of women, and so rapes have a much much higher likelihood of being reported. For example, the reported rate of rapes in Canada is ten times that in Chile - but does anyone believe that Canadian women are truly ten times as likely to get raped as Chilean women? Or just ten times more likely to report it?

If you look at a list of countries ordered by rapes per capita, it generally looks a lot like a list of countries ordered by female empowerment (with some noteable, and very sad, exceptions, of course). Saudi Arabia is right at the bottom, places like Canada and Australia right at the top.

I think the rape reports are as accurate as they would be elsewhere. We have a veritable army of mahila mandals who are dedicated to this stuff.


. Saudi Arabia is right at the bottom

That makes sense to me. With polygamous marriages and purdah - the opportunities would be really restricted. Foreign maidservants are more at risk there

Given that "stranger rape" is only a very small percentage of rapes, this reasoning looks dubious to me. Most rapes are perpetrated by people known to the victim - friends, co-workers, even family. Avoiding dark alleys where unknown predators will leap out and rape lone women doesn't actually do much to reduce your odds of being raped.

+1. I seem to recall a statistic that more than 90% of Pakistani women had been sexually assaulted, most often by relatives.

It's not so difficult to hide your cake and eat it too.

I think the rape reports are as accurate as they would be elsewhere.

Not a good assumption - the likelihood of a rape being reported varies drastically depending on a slew of social and legal factors. For example, the likelihood of a rape being reported in the USA nearly doubled between the early 1970's and early 1990's ( http://www.nij.gov/journals/254/rape_reporting.html ). So unless you think that the difference between 1970's America and 1990's America is larger than the difference between America and India, you'd be very rash to assume that the likelihood of a rape being reported is the same in both countries.

There's also the compounding factor that different countries define "rape" differently, and so statistics are not directly comparable (even if you think the reporting likelihood is comparable).



That makes sense to me. With polygamous marriages and purdah - the opportunities would be really restricted.

How would any of that restrict opportunities? Seems like it would work the other way - enable abuse.



Foreign maidservants are more at risk there

And let's note that they are plentiful, disposable, and devoid of rights or voices. Likewise, Saudi Arabia figures very heavily as a destination for sex slaves - it's the epicenter of the world rape business. See WikiLeaks:

http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/wikileaksdokumenter/article4116072.ece

+1. I seem to recall a statistic that more than 90% of Pakistani women had been sexually assaulted, most often by relatives.

The numbers in most countries - including the good old USA - are high enough to make your hair stand on end, and induce outright dread in those with daughters. It's crazy how much more common rape is, than most people imagine.

How would any of that restrict opportunities?


Its the way they live. Urban Saudi Arabia is much like any other urban city but in rural places, wives live together and the main doors are kept locked if there is no mehram - father, brother, husband or son. The wives act as chaperones for each other and no one is allowed to enter the house. Plus the purdah - no woman will entertain any males, not even a relative except perhaps her son, in the absence of her husband in her home and only her father, husband or son will take her anywhere. Rules are relaxed for foreigners.

Anyone who suspects that a woman is entertaining a man or that a stranger has entered a home uninvited can lock the doors from the outside and call the cops. Or the religious police. And then the sentences for adultery and rape for both sexes are nothing to laugh at.

Its the way they live. Urban Saudi Arabia is much like any other urban city but in rural places, wives live together and the main doors are kept locked if there is no mehram - father, brother, husband or son. The wives act as chaperones for each other and no one is allowed to enter the house. Plus the purdah - no woman will entertain any males, not even a relative except perhaps her son, in the absence of her husband in her home and only her husband or son will take her anywhere.

You'll notice that this means that said father/husband/son/brother can rape said women and count on easily getting away with it - she'll have no way to report it.

And, again, there's the whole sex-slave industry thing there.

You'll notice that this means that said father/husband/son/brother can rape said women and count on easily getting away with it - she'll have no way to report it. True but its not that easy. Saudis also have big families - one family I knew had 40 children distributed among 4 wives and the wives generally have good relations with one another.

But yes, I agree, its hard to choose between reporting a rape and getting 40 lashes

Ergo, the elephant in the room.

Saudis also have big families - one family I knew had 40 children distributed among 4 wives and the wives generally have good relations with one another.


And the women there aren't issued birth certificates as I've been given to understand?
I also don't believe they are in a position to report murder or abuse to the police are they?
So, a man can legally beat, imprison or kill the women in his family if they are legally under his purview.

If a wealthy Saudi father wants to rape all of his wives and his daughters too...
Yanno, I think he could.
(If he wanted to rape his sons he might have a problem though. But maybe not, as they'd both be charged with homosexuality, wouldn't they? and lashed. Maybe his sons would keep quiet too.)
As far as the prevalence of sexual assault? one in five, or 20%, of a large sample of college women, have been raped:

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php


In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime. (2)

And apparently in the US they usually get away with it too:


Of those rapes reported to the police (which is 1/3 or less to begin with), only 16% result in prison sentences. Therefore, approximately 5% of the time, a man who rapes ends up in prison, 95% of the time he does not. (4)

Wait - have we established that the underlying rate of rapes is actually lower in India than in wherever else? Because all we actually know is that the rate of rape reports is lower - and we also know very well that the likelihood of reporting depends on a whole host of cultural and legal factors. Absent some data to demonstrate that the likelihood of a rape getting reported in India is the same as whatever country you want to compare to, there is no reasonable way to conclude that the actual rate of rape is truly lower.


The more I think about the India I saw when I was there the more I think that Indians can not possibly rape nearly as much as Westerners do even if the proportion of Indian men who wanted to rape was higher than the proportion of Western men who wanted to rape.

India has no privacy and without privacy rape is difficult to do.

True. But only a small percentage of women live alone - most Indians have large families and live together so being raped by family or friends or co-workers is restricted simply by having 5-10 other people present. Plus we still have the system of door to door sales, for example, we get our water, bread, milk, paper, garbage, groceries, medicines, etc delivered on a daily basis - and we have the same people or their families doing it for the last four decades - and it is quite common to leave the door unlocked and open during the day, which means there is a constant traffic of people coming in and going out

It is really hard to be alone in India.

Hmm, which could be one of the main problems (http://www.global-sisterhood-network.org/content/view/498/76/)..


Only one in about 70 cases of rape gets reported. This means that about 69 women get raped before one lodges an official complaint. Of the reported cases (only one out of 70), only 20 per cent are convicted. Consequently, only three out of 1,000 rapists ever get convicted. So most rapists can get away with rape. A woman gets raped every half an hour in India. So what in the world is keeping women silent about this heinous crime?

If you are as puzzled as I am by the collective silence of women, would their silence be less puzzling if you were told that almost half of those raped are a vulnerable population, under the age of 18? Or that most sexual abuse takes place in the sanctity of that most venerable of institutions - the Indian family? Most women are raped by men who are well known to them. The rapists are fathers, grandfathers, fathers-in-law, husbands, lovers, uncles, cousins, or the voyeuristic neighbour next door. Lower class and lower caste women are raped by upper caste and upper class men. Women are silenced because they are the safe-keepers of their families and communities. When the victims are very young, they are coerced into silence by their older, more powerful abusers. These women live in cities and slums, villages and towns, all across India.

Rampant corruption (http://www.thewip.net/contributors/2010/03/indias_fastest_growing_crime_r.html) probably does not help matters much either.


That makes sense to me. With polygamous marriages and purdah - the opportunities would be really restricted. Foreign maidservants are more at risk there
I think it is more a case that the Saudis don't release their figures correctly and the number that are unreported is probably much higher.

It isn't correct to say that the number of reported rates are low because there are fewer rapes. It is more a matter that it is low because so few are reported and the reason so few report it is because of what can happen to them if they do report it (http://samaha.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/saudi-rape-victim-sentenced/).

And underreporting is a problem around the world. The US is also bad in the rates that are not reported (http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics). As is Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#Reporting), and pretty much everywhere else.

Wait - have we established that the underlying rate of rapes is actually lower in India than in wherever else? Because all we actually know is that the rate of rape reports is lower - and we also know very well that the likelihood of reporting depends on a whole host of cultural and legal factors. Absent some data to demonstrate that the likelihood of a rape getting reported in India is the same as whatever country you want to compare to, there is no reasonable way to conclude that the actual rate of rape is truly lower.

There's a lot of perverse things that happen with rape reporting - many of the places with the highest reported rates actually have the lowest rate of rapes. This is exactly because they're much more empowering of women, and so rapes have a much much higher likelihood of being reported. For example, the reported rate of rapes in Canada is ten times that in Chile - but does anyone believe that Canadian women are truly ten times as likely to get raped as Chilean women? Or just ten times more likely to report it?

If you look at a list of countries ordered by rapes per capita, it generally looks a lot like a list of countries ordered by female empowerment (with some noteable, and very sad, exceptions, of course). Saudi Arabia is right at the bottom, places like Canada and Australia right at the top.

it's easier to report rapes by strangers than by those close to the victim but those account for the majority of abuse. since there is a power structure involved there with friends and family who don't want their life or reputation messed up, the truth is the hidden secret is most people seem to feel the victim was just lower on the food chain, even though ironicly the perpetrators are scum but they still believe the victim should just be subservient. even more disturbing is the reactions of police or investigators, they are skittish and don't tend to take reports of abuse by those known by the victim as seriously as those that are random strangers. you can sense even they are afraid to rock the boat. i think this just reveals the bullshit charade of society.


The numbers in most countries - including the good old USA - are high enough to make your hair stand on end, and induce outright dread in those with daughters. It's crazy how much more common rape is, than most people imagine.

i've learned a lot from my perpetrator. unfortunately, it was a lot of shit and negativity i learned and the shit humanity is capable of.

my perpetrator has a biological daughter also (i was the step), and though would be absolutely livid and would go to the ends of the world to help or protect her, that doesn't necessarily mean that he gives a shit about someone else or even has any moral scruples regarding anyone else that he doesn't care for. that is what he taught me.

some of the motivation behind it is so ashamedly petty too. his daughter is not attractive and is rather butch. i was the opposite and more feminine. he is ugly too and seems to be attracted to people who he knows are not compatible or do not want him. the more he knews a woman doesn't want him, the more he seems to think he needs to force her. he is the most disgusting being i've ever known so far. he was also jealous of my real father and his success. my real father was a self-made man who worked from the ground up and started his own company to become a multi-millionaire.

so by soiling me, it is a plus one for his side or whatever. that seemed to be the jist of his thinking or attitude. after all, he's garbage and that's how garbage try to gain by degenerate actions or beliefs.

you would think someone would sympathize with another if they have the same cares but not everyone is like that and that is why the world is full of bad and selfish people.

Source: The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/)
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia-pacific/indian-women-tweak-their-slutwalk/2011/07/21/gIQAlY9JTI_story.html
Title: "Indian women tweak their SlutWalk", by Rama Lakshmi
Date: July 22, 2011

Sluts in Dehli.

I don't know, that almost sounds like a lower-shelf blue movie title, but as New Dehli prepares for its own SlutWalk, organizers and participants are wondering how to integrate the bold demonstration concept with a society steeped in tradition:


The walk, conceived as a protest against a Canadian police officer who advised women to “avoid dressing like sluts” if they want to be safe from sexual assault, has elsewhere involved women dressing as provocatively as they please. But in India, the SlutWalk set for July 31 is getting a makeover, with student organizers saying they have tweaked the original concept to better match India’s conservative social palette.

The confrontational “slut” has been softened by adding the Hindi word for “shamelessness” to the event’s title. Women have been asked to march in their regular clothes. And weekly public debates and street theater are being promoted even more energetically than the walk itself.

Rather than focusing on clothes, the campaign is questioning gender stereotypes embedded in ancient Hindu religious epics, Bollywood movies and sexist matrimonial classified ads.

“There will be no dress code” for the march, said Umang Sabarwal, 19, the event’s chief organizer. “In India, no matter what we wear, even if we are covered head to toe in a sari or a burqa, we get molested and raped. A woman’s fight in India is more basic — it is a fight for the right to be born, education, nutritious food, work” ....

.... Shefalee Vasudev, a fashion columnist for the Indian Express newspaper, wrote this month: “Damn the intellectuals. SlutWalk is actually about clothes, about what we wear and how. That’s why if we all turn up in ‘decent clothes’ for the SlutWalk, we may not be able to make the point.”

Amid rising crime against women, the city’s police commissioner offered some advice last week. “You can’t travel alone at 2 a.m. and then say Delhi is not safe,” B.K. Gupta said. “It would be ideal if a woman takes her brother or driver along.”

Two years ago, a young woman was killed going home late from work. Delhi’s female chief minister, Sheila Dikshit, caused a public outcry at the time when she said that women should not be “adventurous.”

“We hear such advice all the time from our parents. The restrictions are always put on women, never on the men,” said Prateeka Nanda, a 19-year-old undergraduate volunteer. “Men do not own the public space. We want to reclaim it.”

Last weekend saw India's first "Shameless" Walk in Bhopal, but only drew fifty or so participants as organizers claim many women were forbidden by their families to take part.

Moderator note: Off-topic discussion of rape of men by women (not in India) has been split to a separate thread, here:

Rape of men by women

Here's the deal.
The fact that one of the most religious countries in the world has all these problems (utter disregard for women, corruption, honor killings - to name a few), reflects the horrific and completely selfish outlook of the populus (also that religion fails to give us morality, but I won't go there).

And this is what I find the most troubling.

Indians make such a point of considering themselves religious, they despise everyone else, consider themselves better than everyone else.

And yet a person's life, man or woman, is worth so little in India.