I've been wondering.... is the US government legitimate?

Well.... I guess not. It certainly doesn't follow the rules of the Geneva Convention.... :rolleyes:

Also the whole "Patriot Act" and stuff......

Is the US sovereign? Certainly. But that is not a good thing, not even for americans. Do americans even know what "sovereignty" implies....? :rolleyes:

Do americans even know what politics is!?!? I wonder.... Maybe americans are involved in politics only when there are elections. And maybe they just know about the canditates and that's it.

So I challenge americans. Give me a definition of "politics" and "sovereignty"! :cool:

What do either of your examples have to do with establishing the legitamacy of a government. I would challenge
you to first define what constitutes legitimate government, then we can compare that to the United States.

The US government is legitimate and constitutional.
it follows the US constitution, and is recognized by the US citizens, the countries around the world, and even the Native Americans

And how come there is no option for Duh, I dunno (I'm not American)
And to echo goofyfish you appear to be talking about arguably, or allegedly, illegal acts rather than an illegitimate government.

Are ya trying to refer to the U.S. independance from England? That government could then be "illegal", but like others said, you're being kinda vague. Regardless of that, everyone should know that the people with power get to make the rules if there's nobody around to stop them. People can try, but when they fail such as in the case of England, then what? Ya get to make your own rules and call them legal because ya can.

- N

ophiolite, because all outside of america have brains and information, so the only outsider who wolud vote that wolud be total idiots and therefore fit right in with americans

What do either of your examples have to do with establishing the legitamacy of a government. I would challenge
you to first define what constitutes legitimate government, then we can compare that to the United States.
What about the exact opposite to the US policy...... :rolleyes:

The idea is to let them do it.....

The US government is legitimate and constitutional.
That says nothing. The Patriot Act alone is completely unconstitutional. And how can a government that goes to war (Iraq, Vietnam and others) against the will of its people can be legitimate at all!?!? :rolleyes:


it follows the US constitution,
*cough cough*
Gotta look at some amendments.....


and is recognized by the US citizens,
What about in the Iraqui war? Or Vietnam? Or missile defense?
Not only that, but the governemnt uses fear to control people...


the countries around the world,
The countries of the world recognize the american sovereignty. However, no country in the world recognizes the american sovereignty over the entire planet.... :rolleyes:


and even the Native Americans
I'm not even going to comment on that.... :rolleyes:

And how come there is no option for Duh, I dunno (I'm not American)
Huuuummm.... because there would be only 0% of people voting for that anyways.... :D


And to echo goofyfish you appear to be talking about arguably, or allegedly, illegal acts rather than an illegitimate government.
No, I'm not. Americans need to learn some history.... :rolleyes:
And real politics... :rolleyes:

Huuumm.... I'm pleased with the pool though....
Seems like americans are actually more informed than I previously had thought....

What about the exact opposite to the US policy...... :rolleyes:

The idea is to let them do it.....In other words, you don't know.

:m: Peace.

The U.S. government in general is as legitimate as any other, and even moreso in some cases.

The present U.S. government is legitimate, despite its policies, because that's what the people want.

That "middle America" rejects the U.S. Constitution in support of the Bush administration is beside the point: the courts cannot proactively seek issues to resolve, and must await both the petition itself and a proper argument, even on behalf of what is self-evident.

Does this point to systemic flaws? Of course. But I dare anyone to put an example of a perfect government before me.

We're doing okay. We fight within this country because some of us want to be doing better, while the GOP is happy to give over to the terrorists. We fight within this country to protect the legitimacy and authority of our Constitution, our freedom, our principles, and our station in the world.

As far as the "legit" acts that the US commits please let me know when the last time Congress has declared War on another country(it is their job you know) and then tell me how many people from other countries have been killed by US bombs since this time

actually a formal decleration of war IS illegal under international law

The thesis of this thread is, "You don't agree with my politics, therefore you are stupid!"

In other words, you don't know.
Yeah, right... :rolleyes:

Truth is.... I obviously don't agree with the american policy. If I was american, the government would certainly be illegitimate. Well, maybe the government isn't legitimate either way. Was the government legitimate during the Vietnam war, or the Iraqui war? What was the percentage of american citizens against the Iraqui war!? Do you think that was democratic at all? Do you think it followed the american constituition? Do you think the Patriot Act is supported by the american public? Do you think the Patriot Act follows the constituition? How many times has the government broken the very laws the american citizens follow? If the government brakes its own laws, wouldn't that make it illegitimate?

:rolleyes:

Isn't it obvious I know what I'm talking about? :rolleyes:

The present U.S. government is legitimate, despite its policies, because that's what the people want.
Huuuumm.... that raises another interesting issue, actually.
If the people is badly informed or misinformed about what is going on, could the people support the government even tough they shouldn't? In other words.... if the government tricks people to accept their policy, would that still make that government legitimate? :cool:


Does this point to systemic flaws? Of course. But I dare anyone to put an example of a perfect government before me.
It's on the works.... :D



We're doing okay. We fight within this country because some of us want to be doing better, while the GOP is happy to give over to the terrorists. We fight within this country to protect the legitimacy and authority of our Constitution, our freedom, our principles, and our station in the world.
Oh... if you actually followed your Constituition....
No, honestly, your contituition is great! But I doubt the government even look at it!

Which freedom? How can you have freedom when you are in constant fear of terrorist attacks? Besides, how many cities in US are actually considered to be safe? How many prisoners do you have in your prisons compared to other countries? Where is your freedom!? :eek:

Which principles? The same one that makes people go to war?

Which "station"? Does the world love and respect america?

The thesis of this thread is, "You don't agree with my politics, therefore you are stupid!"
Is this the best contribution you can give to this thread?

Is this the best contribution you can give to this thread?It appears to be the most appropriate. I can understand, and even accept, the implied position you have taken as a twenty-one year old Canadian citizen. But I hasten to suggest that your journey through life is just beginning and that you have much to learn about geo-politics.

It appears to be the most appropriate. I can understand, and even accept, the implied position you have taken as a twenty-one year old Canadian citizen. But I hasten to suggest that your journey through life is just beginning and that you have much to learn about geo-politics.
Well, I wouldn't base my understanding of myself on such assumption, if I were you. In fact, I think "experience" is just an excuse that adults invented to abuse children.

....
Even because according to Erikson's theories, I have gone through the stages of life twice already... :D :D :eek:

Was the government legitimate during the Vietnam war, or the Iraqui war? What was the percentage of american citizens against the Iraqui war!? Do you think that was democratic at all?

Well, though many people were/are against the war in Iraq, there were many more who were for it, as one can tell simply because George W. Bush was re-elected....but that's another topic....

Then you can buy into my theory...yeah, the US is legitimate, except for all those black ops divisions out there, break-offs of the CIA, if you will, that go through torturing people for information, assassination plot, etc. :D

:m: (oh yeah, wait, and the cops, the one's who bust all the marijuana dealers, they keep the marijuana. SEE!? A marijuana leaf. :m:

he he...

Bleed

Well, though many people were/are against the war in Iraq, there were many more who were for it, as one can tell simply because George W. Bush was re-elected....but that's another topic....
No. More people were against the war. It was not a democratic legitimate act.


Then you can buy into my theory...yeah, the US is legitimate, except for all those black ops divisions out there, break-offs of the CIA, if you will, that go through torturing people for information, assassination plot, etc. :D
In other words, the actual government.... :rolleyes:

You're right, more people were against the war, but overall, more people support Bush in general.

And yeah, the actual government is probably corrupt. I'm an American, but I've heard stories...hopefully they're just stories, but still...

You're right, more people were against the war, but overall, more people support Bush in general.

And yeah, the actual government is probably corrupt. I'm an American, but I've heard stories...hopefully they're just stories, but still...

I would argue that no matter what they say about themselves, all world governments are corrupt--it's just a matter of degree.

Regarding the current position of America in the world at large, as I see it, America has the problem that all solitary superpowers have. They have reached the stage where they're about to overreach themselves. There are serious plans to hammer Iran, and there are other plans to give Syria a going-over as well. There is such a problem as stretching yourself too thin. The same problem that ultimately brings down all empires will cause America to retreat from its current imperial adventure, I believe. :)

Besides, there's a very strong current of isolationaism running through the history of American culture. While they was expanding into the west, and kicking the snot out of Mexico in the 1840's, each other in the the 1860's, and the Indians at any time, the American state and people maintained a level of international solitude for over a century (1815-1917) to which many people would like to see them return. I suspect that the current American government/s seek enemies outside the country because the American state is so deeply divided that if they weren't fighting outsiders they'd be fighting each other. :bugeye:

this thread should have been,
what do americans know
Nothing (i am american)
Nothing (i am not american)
Nothing (i might be american)
I live in america does that make me american?

I live in america does that make me american?
Huuumm.... that's actually good point..... :eek:
Oh well, too bad I didn't think about it... :D

You're right, more people were against the war, but overall, more people support Bush in general.

And yeah, the actual government is probably corrupt. I'm an American, but I've heard stories...hopefully they're just stories, but still...
Huuuummm... like what...?

Why am I not surprised that this thread is in the Cesspool?

I don't know....
Because moderators are biased? :D

Or anything that makes fun of americans is considered to be evil and nonsense.... :rolleyes: :D

And, btw.... notice that there are more american who knows about politics than those who don't know! So, I was wrong after all!!! :D:D:D

yeah, america is great we are the best, go america go!
whats the go with americans loving themselfs and thinking when they do something wrong it must be right, it is pretty funny that none of them have replied to this thread because all in all they know fuck all about there own government!

i'm from a little country called Bumfuck Ioncewasaho and we know nothing of this country "america" of which you speak?

Where is it?

a hole a big hole, some poeple call it HELL

honest poeple kill each othere there for no reason and say that tey are the best country in the world what a joke, it is more third world then some third world countries

we donts kill each otha we just protect our selfs whatsa da problem wit dat?

Great "protection", eh? :D

Welcome, btw...... :D

America.....? HAH!....
the emperor with his big saggy arse out. doesn't even CARE no mo. dribbling Mcdonald's sauce down his chin and fartin. And this sad fuk wants to police the world

thing is about war. you HAVe to think this through for yourself. you cant be tribal. you gotta be POST tribal now. we HAVE to wake the fuk up YESTERday. we aren't alkin spears now. we are TALKIN mini-nukes and all kinds of weird evil shit we dont even KNOW about

you me ha e to step away.....pictue the Earth from space yah? can you see any boudaries?......no right. it's all in our silly heads

da bush man is in power yall, me nos all bout da politices

No. More people were against the war. It was not a democratic legitimate act.


In other words, the actual government.... :rolleyes:

that people were against the war (even if it was most people) is irrelevent,the government is elected by the people to make the decisions.people vote for people who are most likely to make the decisions that they want made.i am very glad it is this way,if it wasnt we would still have the death penalty in england.a lot of the time the general public doesnt know enough about situations to make informed decisions.i wouldnt be happy if we went to war on a vote,and how big would the decision have to be for it to go to a public vote,or would we just vote on everything?