I thought James should educate himself. His incompetence and his lack of knowledge about the world around him is shameful. If he is capable of reading a 20,000 word article, he might wish to educate himself about the world. So he does not abuse people for no reason, and so he can provide a more believable image as an intelligent man to the world.

http://tinyurl.com/kkzax

The (Israel)Lobby doesn’t want an open debate, of course, because that might lead Americans to question the level of support they provide. Accordingly, pro-Israel organisations work hard to influence the institutions that do most to shape popular opinion.

(like badgering simpletons like James to stop open discussion)..............

In short, Sharon and the Lobby took on the president of the United States and triumphed. Hemi Shalev, a journalist on the Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv, reported that Sharon’s aides ‘could not hide their satisfaction in view of Powell’s failure. Sharon saw the whites of President Bush’s eyes, they bragged, and the president blinked first.’ But it was Israel’s champions in the United States, not Sharon or Israel, that played the key role in defeating Bush................


James. Please read this paragraph, then search your heart. You are a tool that has been programmed to think and act in a particular way. And even though you are being told you are a tool, and the paragraph below describes how, you still continue in your tool like existence.

No discussion of the Lobby would be complete without an examination of one of its most powerful weapons: the charge of anti-semitism. Anyone who criticises Israel’s actions or argues that pro-Israel groups have significant influence over US Middle Eastern policy – an influence AIPAC celebrates – stands a good chance of being labelled an anti-semite. Indeed, anyone who merely claims that there is an Israel Lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti-semitism, even though the Israeli media refer to America’s ‘Jewish Lobby’. In other words, the Lobby first boasts of its influence and then attacks anyone who calls attention to it.


So if neither strategic nor moral arguments can account for America’s support for Israel, how are we to explain it?

The explanation is the unmatched power of the Israel Lobby. We use ‘the Lobby’ as shorthand for the loose coalition of individuals and organisations who actively work to steer US foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction..........

A key pillar of the Lobby’s effectiveness is its influence in Congress, where Israel is virtually immune from criticism. This in itself is remarkable, because Congress rarely shies away from contentious issues. Where Israel is concerned, however, potential critics fall silent. One reason is that some key members are Christian Zionists like Dick Armey, who said in September 2002: ‘My No. 1 priority in foreign policy is to protect Israel.’........

There is no doubt about the efficacy of these tactics. Here is one example: in the 1984 elections, AIPAC helped defeat Senator Charles Percy from Illinois, who, according to a prominent Lobby figure, had ‘displayed insensitivity and even hostility to our concerns’. Thomas Dine, the head of AIPAC at the time, explained what happened: ‘All the Jews in America, from coast to coast, gathered to oust Percy. And the American politicians – those who hold public positions now, and those who aspire – got the message.’

The bottom line is that AIPAC, a de facto agent for a foreign government, has a stranglehold on Congress, with the result that US policy towards Israel is not debated there, even though that policy has important consequences for the entire world. In other words, one of the three main branches of the government is firmly committed to supporting Israel. As one former Democratic senator, Ernest Hollings, noted on leaving office, ‘you can’t have an Israeli policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here.’ Or as Ariel Sharon once told an American audience, ‘when people ask me how they can help Israel, I tell them: “Help AIPAC.”’....................

oh no, numbnuts is back

Numbnuts sockpuppet, which will get him perma banned.

Happeh,

Your original name is not currently banned. However, if you return with any more sock puppets, that is exactly what will happen.

I am not particularly interested in your cut-and-pastes from anti-Israeli sources. I prefer to take a sane and balanced approach to the situation in the Middle East. As you will see from the moderation of the World Events forum, in particular, radical views from both sides are discouraged on sciforums.

Please don't make this some kind of personal vendetta. Just engage your brain for a moment.

does this mean you will unlock the contest, james? :D

The link to the full paper can be found in PDF format at -

http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011

Extract from the paper -

The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy

By John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt

Working Paper Number:RWP06-011

Submitted: 03/13/2006


Abstract

In this paper, John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago's Department of Political Science and Stephen M.Walt of Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government contend that the centerpiece of U.S. Middle East policy is its intimate relationship with Israel. The authors argue that although often justified as reflecting shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, the U.S. commitment to Israel is due primarily to the activities of the “Israel Lobby." This paper goes on to describe the various activities that pro-Israel groups have undertaken in order to shift U.S. foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction.

ecofascist:

Please consider changing your Avatar to something less offensive.

Please consider changing your Avatar to something less offensive.

It's not offensive to all cultures. Why so ethnocentric?

They quote the wall street journal as claiming that jews supply 60% of the money for a democratic presidential candidate when they are only 3% of the population.

You should not just put all this stuff off reactively...

The writers of that paper are from Harvard, so let's take it seriously. Accusing them of being anti-semitic is stupid. The fact that Jews don't like any criticism of their lobby or Israel shows they are definitely hiding something.

I believe that all races must have their own lebensraum, even the Jews which is Israel, let's hope all Jews can find their paradise in Israel.

ecofascist:

Please consider changing your Avatar to something less offensive.

The swastika is an Indo-European symbol for well-being, so don't associate this with retarded skinheads and bald men who wank to Hitler's posters(hint: the NSM).

I hope Sciforums is mature enough to allow free debate and discussion, let not a "contreversial" symbol stop us.

So if neither strategic nor moral arguments can account for America’s support for Israel, how are we to explain it?
Why not strategic? Israel shares with the US an educated and technologically advanced society, we share military advancements and strategies, intelligence, and it is strategically placed in the midst of oil rich, largely muslim nations.


The swastika is an Indo-European symbol for well-being, so don't associate this with retarded skinheads and bald men who wank to Hitler's posters(hint: the NSM).
I sure do.

You are obviously a bit naive, ecofascist, but I can forgive that.

Just to let you know: Most people see the swastika and immediate think Nazis. You really would be better off changing it, if you do not want people to make the assumption that you are a skinhead neo-Nazi.

You are obviously a bit naive, ecofascist, but I can forgive that.

Just to let you know: Most people see the swastika and immediate think Nazis. You really would be better off changing it, if you do not want people to make the assumption that you are a skinhead neo-Nazi.

hahaha, you must be naive to pass such judgements on me. Besides you are not discussing the topic at hand and rather trying to debate my personal ideas. I posted facts on the Israeli Lobby and not passing my personal judgement over it.

People who are ignorant about the swastika wish to jump conclusions? That's fine by me. It just goes to show the "intelligent community" is biased.

PS: I am a Traditionalist first and foremost and yes I am also a nationalist who supports National Socialism.

[links removed]

i am jewish, but i have to admit that the demonization of the swastika is a bit overblown. for christs sake, the swastika was a common symbol found throughout temples and synagogues prior to ww2. i dont take offense...do any of the other jewish folks here?

The swastika is an Indo-European symbol for well-being, so don't associate this with retarded skinheads and bald men who wank to Hitler's posters(hint: the NSM).

I hope Sciforums is mature enough to allow free debate and discussion, let not a "contreversial" symbol stop us.

In a weird sort of way im very proud of ecofascist for taking such an almost brave step, i can see that by doing this he is questioning everyone, and there inate sense to discriminate upon sight.

Its rather like watching a skinhead with a tatoo on his head walk down a street and seeing people stare or avoid his path, now this guy could have a heart of gold but because of his physical appearance he is automatically discriminated against, now this is obviously an incorrect way to behave, however it does seem to be human nature.

I wonder why?

I wonder why?
i just have to ask, how ugly is your girlfriend?

In a weird sort of way im very proud of ecofascist for taking such an almost brave step, i can see that by doing this he is questioning everyone, and there inate sense to discriminate upon sight.

Its rather like watching a skinhead with a tatoo on his head walk down a street and seeing people stare or avoid his path, now this guy could have a heart of gold but because of his physical appearance he is automatically discriminated against, now this is obviously an incorrect way to behave, however it does seem to be human nature.

I wonder why?

because the skinhead wraps himself in a culture that is reviled by modern, western civilization.

if he has a heart of gold, he is not showing it by adopting the mannerisms of a hate group.

LOL, you guys kill me with your ignorance. So you guys just assumed that I am some skinhead or White Supremacist/Nationalist, or even better do you think I belong to the KKK? :rolleyes:

I am obviously not a skinhead and my behavior is nowhere near those retards. If you want to see how skins and WNs behave, try **********, NSM and White Power forums.

I am merely stating certain "facts" and want to know your opinions about it. I guess this isnt' a very intelligent community after all.

PS: I dont have blonde hair and blue eyes, LOL. Omg! I am not Aryan! Then how can I be a National Socialist? Omg!

If you people spent atleast half hour reading what the LNSG site talked about.

Anyways to make it simpler, here what National Socialism is about -

1. NS is opposed to Judeo-Christianity, so much for Christian Identity groups who consider themselves to be Nazi.

2. NS supports nationalism for ALL races, tribes.

3. NS isn't about abusing the Jews, LOL. If that was true then Nazi Germany would have collapsed in just 5 years instead of 12, since all those nazi Germans would be hating Jews 24/7/365. LOL.

4. NS protects tradition and allows for "evolution" to higher levels of human existance(yes, there is also a spiritual aspect to it)

5. Being NS hs nothing to do with Aryan or White supremacy. Btw, Whites aren't Aryans, most races don't have that in them. Only the best of best of the Indo-Europeans can ever become "Aryans".

the "best", huh?

sounds racist to me!

i just have to ask, how ugly is your girlfriend?

Take a close look at your mumma next time and you'll see! :D

the "best", huh?

sounds racist to me!

How's that racist? Dude, stop smoking weed while posting. Your comment seems like what a marxist would say, no wait thats almost exactly what a marxist would say.

Do you desperately want to be aryan? Then you can be! Just get on the show "Desperate Whites who want to be Aryan" and have you heard about that other reality show called "Slavs who act Nordic", featuring Paris Hilton as the host(yes she is of Norwegian descent)?

Do I hate races other than my own, NO! I don't. Hence I am not a racist like real national socialists. Myspace.com Nazis are so worthless.

Agreed.

:m:

Dude, unless you're a Buddhist or Hindu, the use of the swastika is offensive, besides they use it going the other direction. National Socialism is Nazism, period, it has no other connotation.

Anyway, to discuss the topic at hand, which you seem reluctant to do, why isn't support of Israel strategic?

saying "the best indo-europeans" implies that some of them were better than others, and that implies racism, in a discussion of race.

get with it. you are fucking with the wrong bull about this, trust me.

Happeh,

Your original name is not currently banned. However, if you return with any more sock puppets, that is exactly what will happen.

I am not particularly interested in your cut-and-pastes from anti-Israeli sources. I prefer to take a sane and balanced approach to the situation in the Middle East. As you will see from the moderation of the World Events forum, in particular, radical views from both sides are discouraged on sciforums.

Why would a discussion on this subject be radical? Many people may be accusing Happeh here for stupidity or ignorance but it is equally stupid to just ignore the issue and act as if it doesn't exist. Do some research for yourself and don't dismiss everything based on prejudices. Start by researching on famous political figures (Churchill, ex-presidents etc) that mentioned this issue and you might be surprised by what you find. Many people may be exaggerating but in the end you will find that this has atleast some truth to it...

the "best", huh?

sounds racist to me!
So, even if it was, it wouldn't matter. Why's it so bad that other people believe that humanity divided in races. Just as long as people don't start discriminating because of skin color or something.

Also, I agree that the Swastika is a symbol for many many other things then Nazism. It's just that people are prejudiced and won't see you for what you are. It would be wiser to just get another avatar.

s0meguy: the problem is that this is a message board where people of all races, creeds, and religions frequent. implying that "some" are better than others has no place.

period.

I find the sockpuppetpath avatar much more offensive. Why do none of the administrators ask him to change his avatar?

Ecofascist has a point, the symbol in his avatar is a Hindu symbol. He made a point that he doesn't like nazis, so he's not one of them.

Peace.

As skinwalker said, National Socialism is synonymous with Nazism.

It seems to me that sciforums is becoming a magnet for white supremacists and neo-Nazis, and I really don't think we want to go down that path. They already have their own web sites...

First of all I am a National Socialist, but first and foremost a Traditionalist. I hate neo-nazis, who masturbate to Third Reich posters, but in reality they just supress their obessesion with ebony porn. Nazism is not about wearing the SA uniform and going seig heil every 2 minutes(the SA was more communist in reality than NS).

National Socialism in German is Nazism. Secondly, Nazism IS NOT White Supremacy or Nordic German Supremacy. The post WW2 propaganda made sure that people will hate NS forever, even if it has its good aspects.

I have been polite and not racist at all with this. Besides I am an Indian Hindu and not White, actually my racial analysis says I am of "Eurasian" type even though there has been no race mixing in my lineage.

I don't think any of you guys read the website at [advertisement deleted]

Btw, I said the best of Indo-Europeans can be Aryans. Indo-European is not a race, its a family of languages and traditions. Indo-European tradition and culture is very much a valid term. If I had said only Nordics can be Aryans and they are best race, that would be considered 'racist'.

Now for the topic at hand which is the Israeli/Jewish lobby in the US govt; why must a ethnic group have such a powerful lobby in the US govt? What purpose does it serve? We never hear of a powerful Indian or German lobby in the US govt. Why is that?

What is the agenda of the Jewish lobby in the US govt? I think the paper makes that clear with ample proof. So I hope I can see if you guys can debunk any of those points.

No nation should have a lobby in the govt which is controlled by another nation! Thats just insane and downright dangerous. I don't think we need pull our hair our on this one, the writings on the (jewish) wall. LOL

It seems to me that sciforums is becoming a magnet for white supremacists and neo-Nazis, and I really don't think we want to go down that path. They already have their own web sites...

yeah, i think im going to leave because of this. its starting to get really sickening.

yeah, i think im going to leave because of this. its starting to get really sickening.

Good riddance. One whiner less.

I agree nazis, white supremacists, and KKK are bad people, I'm glad you view their racism as evil also.

So eco, you are Hindu yet you are also nationalist socialist?

By Aryan, do you mean race or virtue?

Peace.

Good riddance. One whiner less.

dude, make yourself a presence on this board before you start calling names.

see your post count? yeah pay attention to that before you are gonna be a dick.

The pro-Israel lobby is powerful in the present administration because in many ways it is the administration.

Any discussion of it's influence would be incomplete without addressing the subject of lobbies in general, which often promote views that seem contrary to the interests of the people governed. It would be impossible to eliminate one lobby without passing legislation that affects all of them.

Only the best of best of the Indo-Europeans can ever become"Aryans".
Thats where the word 'aryan' comes from - India. Its derived from the sanskrit 'arya', which means 'noble'.

Anyways to make it simpler, here what National Socialism is about -

1. NS is opposed to Judeo-Christianity, so much for Christian Identity groups who consider themselves to be Nazi.

2. NS supports nationalism for ALL races, tribes.

3. NS isn't about abusing the Jews, LOL. If that was true then Nazi Germany would have collapsed in just 5 years instead of 12, since all those nazi Germans would be hating Jews 24/7/365. LOL.

4. NS protects tradition and allows for "evolution" to higher levels of human existance(yes, there is also a spiritual aspect to it)

5. Being NS hs nothing to do with Aryan or White supremacy. Btw, Whites aren't Aryans, most races don't have that in them. Only the best of best of the Indo-Europeans can ever become "Aryans".
Where does the 'socialist' part of National Socialist come in to it? Also, could you explain what you mean by 'traditionalist'? A lot of things are traditional, including some of the worst ideologies.

No nation should have a lobby in the govt which is controlled by another nation! Thats just insane and downright dangerous.
Agreed !

How is anyone controlled by a lobbying group? If anything people can be influenced, but unless they are using blackmail or something, I doubt control is the right word.

eco tum hindustan seh ho? tume hindi ati heh?

Peace

Is that from Rafi?

spreken nederlands, nu.
ik denk dit topic is dood.

Originally posted by Ecofascist:
PS: I dont have blonde hair and blue eyes, LOL. Omg! I am not Aryan! Then how can I be a National Socialist? Omg!

It is difficult to take an argument about Israel seriously from one who displays a swastika. Why not take a Muhammad cartoon to the Arab League? A white pointy hat to a NAACP convention? They wear the white robes and hats during holy week in Spain and noone is perturbed right? They will pay careful attention to what you are trying to say after that display.

This is simple logic. Do not bring a gun to an anti-gun rally, or they will notice only one thing and hear nothing you say.

UPDATE :

Exposé on Jewish role in US policy is disowned (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2110150,00.html)
HARVARD UNIVERSITY is distancing itself from a report by one of its senior academics that accuses the Jewish lobby in America of subverting US foreign policy in Israel’s interest.
Thereby proving the report's claims of Jewish influence on US Society as accurate ;)

Really so if I post a paper onhow you are nothing but a hatemongering toad who sufffers from a massive inferiority complex and delusions of adequecy and it is shot down, it means I'm right?

Of course the Jewish population has an influence in US Society, so do Quakers, Mormons, Catholics, Greek Orthodox, African-Americans, Chippewa Indians, Potheads, Vegans, Docors, Lawyers, Factory Workers, Illegal Aliens, Horticulturists, Dogs, Cats, Horses, and cockroaches. So what?

Really so if I post a paper onhow you are nothing but a hatemongering toad who sufffers from a massive inferiority complex and delusions of adequecy and it is shot down, it means I'm right?

Of course the Jewish population has an influence in US Society, so do Quakers, Mormons, Catholics, Greek Orthodox, African-Americans, Chippewa Indians, Potheads, Vegans, Docors, Lawyers, Factory Workers, Illegal Aliens, Horticulturists, Dogs, Cats, Horses, and cockroaches. So what?

You are being "racist" by saying that Africans-Americans, Indian tribes and other ethnic minorities have significant power. What an absurd statement you have made. I challenge you to goto an African-American and tell him that "Hey you know what the US govt foreign policy is influenced by a powerful African lobby which supports Africa no matter what".

Then you can talk about such nonsense. Dont be so deluded when the facts are right there. I am not being anti-semitic by saying this. I would be alarmed if any other ethnic group held so much power in the US govt. It just so happens its the Jewish lobby.

You guys are pathetic. How can someone be threatened by a spiritual symbol? I have made my facts crystal clear, yet you want to deny it without posting any reliable resources. Wow! How intelligent, good luck, you Marxists!

UPDATE :

Thereby proving the report's claims of Jewish influence on US Society as accurate ;)

Harvard will definitely deny this and you know why? Israel and the Jewish lobby fund many well known Univs like Harvard. So any Uni for that matter will distance itself from such issues.

"No one disputes that the Jewish lobby is an influential force in US politics and that the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) is one of the most powerful organisations in Washington. Aipac is described in the report as “a de facto agent of a foreign government (that) has a stranglehold on the US Congress”. It also challenges the need for America to give Israel $3 billon (£1.73 billion) in aid every year, worth about $500 for every Israeli citizen. It argues that Israel’s critics are routinely branded anti-Semites."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2110150,00.html

There was another paper titled "What's so American about the AIPAC?", can't seem to find it though. :p

I bet you guys will be partying and praising if the same Prof has written a paper titled "Why the Jews and Israel need to be defended by the United States".

Or something like "Why Race does not exist"

You are being "racist" by saying that Africans-Americans, Indian tribes and other ethnic minorities have significant power. What an absurd statement you have made. I challenge you to goto an African-American and tell him that "Hey you know what the US govt foreign policy is influenced by a powerful African lobby which supports Africa no matter what".

Then you can talk about such nonsense. Dont be so deluded when the facts are right there. I am not being anti-semitic by saying this. I would be alarmed if any other ethnic group held so much power in the US govt. It just so happens its the Jewish lobby.

I challenge you to develop some reading skills. Of course there are lobbies for just about everything and they influence our government according to their needs. It's part of the legislative system. At time it can be abused, but if the public speaks up congress will have to act. The only part of our society that has as much pull on Congress as the people have is the media and they have not been painitng israel very well for a long time.

I am not denying that other lobbies exist, Infact this lobby system is very complicated and dangerous. I would advocate completely removing such things in govt at all levels and in any nation.

We all know that the ATF lobby is also very powerful. But its just absurd to suggest that an African-American lobby is as powerful as the Israeli/Jewish lobby. Bcos if it was, then I am sure it WOULD have been mentioned and trumpeted as a victory by the NAACP and the Black Panthers.

ecofascist:
you need to figure out what it is you believe, exactly....before spreading your ideas around like too much grape jelly.

Reference is often made to the "Jewish lobby" in an effort to describe Jewish political influence in the United States. This term is both vague and inadequate.

They also sometimes lobby on specific issues. Though they have rarely influenced policy, Christian groups have also frequently weighed in on Israel's behalf and several pro-Israel organizations are comprised entirely of non-Jews. These organizations comprise the formal lobby.

U.S. Middle East policy is further shaped by Jewish voting behavior and American public opinion. These indirect means of influence are the informal lobby.

The formal and informal components tend to intersect at several points so the distinction is not always clear-cut. Together, however, they form the Israeli (or pro-Israel) lobby. This is a more accurate label than "Jewish lobby" because a large proportion of the lobby is made up of non-Jews.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/lobby.html

yeah, i think im going to leave because of this. its starting to get really sickening.Good riddance. One whiner less.
ROFL ;)

ROFL ;)

wow. thats surprising.

please ban brian foley.