Enough is enough.

Let us face it. Our government was asleep at the wheels. So we had a major accident on purpose by an enemy. If the enemy wants, we can have more of these damage. All the security measures are not going to change that. It is like running into an iceberg if you do not know where you are going. That does not mean we have to sleep on a rubber boat inside our luxury cabin.

So, my suggestion is to go back to business as usual and let the government watch for the iceberg - that is where our tax dollars go.

Prehaps that is part of the problem; where our tax dollars go. We as citizens have little or no say in this. The governments solution has always been throw money at it till it goes away. There are plenty of people who will sell the government $900 hammers all day long. What we need is our moneys worth.

I agree. The government needs to go back to 1993 and start scanning everyone that have come to our country and see the pattern. Everything has a patern. Let us use those super computers hiding inside NSA or NASA to find structure.

The goverment has known of the danger, has also known that terrorists were living within our own borders, has even trained, and instructed these so called terrorists, and knew an attack would be innevetable. What if they just stood by and let it happen? Aren't we as quilty as the terrorists?.

www.whatreallyhappened.com

go there and make up your own mind!!.

In the absence of facts, conspiracy theories abound. It is more like incompetence than anything else. It is easy to understand and control a small set of parameters. When the world is drowning with data, making them into information requires knowledge. In US, most bright students go to private enterprise to earn higher money and have fun in the challenge of technology. That does not prevent the government into doing funny business.

But a logical explanation is "Stupidity"

About those fake IDs, that terrorist organization was setup by CIA to fight Russia. So they have a group that designs fake IDs and is well versed in blending into behind enemy lines. There is no co-ordination between the CIA, NSA, Defense Intel, State dept, FAA, and a whole slew of other agencies.

Enterprise Architecture is difficult to do in a global business, the technology was not there 5 years ago. In a government, it is impossible. The technology that the govt uses is atleast 10 years old. So again I say - it is like buying $900 hammers.

Could it be that the freedoms you enjoy (in America) might be the problem,& not your government.
In Britain we already have carnivore boxes & many more anti terrorist laws which reduce our freedoms.
In fact,Britain is slowly becoming a police state.

What are carnivore boxes?

To change our way of life is exactly what the terrorists want. Why should bow down to such?

A carnivore box basically records all communications of the citizens.

I'd rather be in danger of terrorism than give up my freedom.

For those of you who'd rather be owned by your government you now know where to move to.

Ben

What are carnivore boxes?
Well as far as I know they record all of the internet traffic for the FBI, ours are for MI5 MI6

To change our way of life is exactly what the terrorists want. Why should bow down to such?
& yes I agree with you.

Carnivore boxes renamed as DCS1000 is run by National Security Agency and NSA (No Such Agency) to collect all national, international data traffic. The reason I blamed the government is that it is not the NSA or CIA that is at fault but the people who make policy decisions every 4 years - that is our politicians and to certain extent the executive branch (the state department) is to blame. We elected them, and they are the ones that are supposed to understand the big bad wolves out there and set policies to manage them. You can ask any intelligent officer, they will agree.

No, I do not blame the law enforcement officials....

Originally posted by kmguru
In the absence of facts, conspiracy theories abound. It is more like incompetence than anything else. It is easy to understand and control a small set of parameters. When the world is drowning with data, making them into information requires knowledge. In US, most bright students go to private enterprise to earn higher money and have fun in the challenge of technology. That does not prevent the government into doing funny business.

But a logical explanation is "Stupidity"

About those fake IDs, that terrorist organization was setup by CIA to fight Russia. So they have a group that designs fake IDs and is well versed in blending into behind enemy lines. There is no co-ordination between the CIA, NSA, Defense Intel, State dept, FAA, and a whole slew of other agencies.

Enterprise Architecture is difficult to do in a global business, the technology was not there 5 years ago. In a government, it is impossible. The technology that the govt uses is atleast 10 years old. So again I say - it is like buying $900 hammers.

In the absence of facts? well let's see before the attack Americans could care less of what the goverment was doing, before the attack, Bush was considered a wimp, unexperienced, and ill informed in foreing policies. Now we are to face a war, another war that Americans have been draged into by our manipulative goverment, one which would have not have had support from the American public before the attack.

How convinient is it for the states? Since the attack the US goverment grew in strength two fold, we're in the verge of loosing some civil liberties, racial profiling will more than likely be next. And this is not a conspiracie theory these are the facts.

News flash: Americans were planning an attack on Afganistan since July:

http://www.indiareacts.com/Story33.htm

And also in the BBC news flash:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1550000/1550366.stm

Wow!! how convinient it was for the states for this tragedy to happen so that the American public would support it! Hugh?

Bush says he's going to provide evidence of Osama's involvement, to the Islamic community, then now he backs down from providing any kind of proof claiming that it may be sencitive to the capture of Osama and his bands of terrorists;

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010924/us/attacks_bush_2.html

So to get back what you have said, I don't believe that the search for the truth is stupid, I don't think you quiet read the news from www.whatreallyhappened.com , if you will notice they use real news clips from around the world, and ask questions the rest of Americans are overwhelmed not to even fathom.

So to get back what you have said, I don't believe that the search for the truth is stupid

You have to read between the lines Godless. I did not say search for truth is stupid. If you must, then search for the WHOLE Truth.

As they say, little knowledge is dangerous, very little knowledge is very....

"You have to read between the lines Godless. I did not say search for truth is stupid. If you must, then search for the WHOLE Truth"


Good, cause I've been searching, I knew we had to have some idea of what was going on, or we should have had closer measures of warnings.

http://web.realcities.com/content/rc/news/attack/miami/1956356472.htm

Now the question is, why would the goverment let these people train in flying schools here in the US? It clearly states the goverment knew about it, or is our goverment been sleeping all this time?.

PS.
Quote KalbinB:" I'd rather be in danger of terrorism than give up my freedom."

We may not agree on much, but i do agree with this quote

The government knows about everything. because you are the government - in the sense you elected them to setup the government.

One can not lock up all the people that have a future intent to cause harm. Because we do not know those people. Our government did not think, people will do such things. Now we know what the enemy is capable of.

So, we take steps (a) to punish the guilty party, (b) to prevent future acts.

We are in phase (a). Let us finish that and then go to Phase (b)

Our police forces, FBI, CIA, NSA, knew these people to be terrorists, yet they did nothing. True a crime had not been commited, however, if a terrist credit card would have not worked they would have not been able to buy plane tickets. It was too easy for them to slip by our security system. That's what our mistake was, but if the FBI would have had suppervision of these terrorist movements we could have prevented the tragedy.

All said and done, the goverment, though elected officials are not we the people, they suppose to reppresent us, however we all know they corrupt easily, so they represent the parties with the mula, exp; lobists for tobbacco, lobists for this or that.

We've seen the scandals, we've seen the degredation of our leaders, we havent got many choices to vote. 3'r parties haven't got much of a chance, 1 of a hundred politician is honest, not enough to make differences.

We feel cheated sometimes, now we feel mad, we want some retribution of damages done to our cities, we want war!!.

Sad but true.

Many people, not necessarily those on sciforums.com, now think we should have taken Osama bin Laden out in '98. We tried a small effort, which didn't suceeded, and had a pretty low chance of suceeding. In Aug. 1998, Clinton launched cruise missiles into Afghanistan killing some sheep and a few terrorists. Can I blame him? No. There isn't a chance in hell that the American people would have let the President use a lot of military force, or even deploying ground troops, which is what's being planned now.

We wouldn't have allowed this because there hadn't been enough sufficently dead, all the attacks, except for the first WTC bombing, happened overseas, and life was too good to be spoiled by a war. If we want to say this is Clinton's fault, which its not, then we must put a little blame on ourselves.

We wouldn't have allowed sufficent military action. No matter what anyone thinks now.

Well, the cruise missile attack is somewhat of a joke. But there's also the assassination order Clinton gave the CIA, or rather, the order to bring him back ``using deadly force if apprehending the subject alive is deemed impossible.''

But they failed.

And they didn't fail by a long shot, either -- they were right there, looking at a convoy, which contained Osama bin Laden. They just shot at the wrong vehicle. Why?

If the CIA didn't know which vehicle he was in, why not firebomb the entire convoy? We're talking about our covert intelligence agency, with an order to remove a direct threat to the national security of our country. Doesn't sound like the group or situation for games to me. Why didn't they kill him?

Do cruise missiles have shuffleboard decks on top?

Our country was too busy with Monica-gate, so wide that a convoy could pass through....

And now, we have a standing order from our own government to shoot down our own airplanes (if the plane does some funny business by design or by malfunction). Feels good to fly, does not it?

Has anybody noticed any comparision between Clinton Presidency and Bush presidency?

ECONOMY?

Death & Destruction?

Stock Market?

Freedom?

Hate?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kmguru
[B]Has anybody noticed any comparision between Clinton Presidency and Bush presidency?

ECONOMY? *somewhat stable, but loosing ground slowly, the good news is Christmas is around the coner*

Death & Destruction? *overwhelmed, could it be his fault? I don't think so, however very elite personnel whithin our own goverment might have wanted this way, who knows? "always be suspecious"*

Stock Market? *Drastically down, but with hopes of a slow recovery, when people get more confidence to start trading some more it should pick up*

Freedom? *In question, here it comes, if some key players of this government covertly wanted this way, this is the reason why, totaliranism, or a police state status.*

Hate? * In my neckofthewoods, so far we've tried to keep it calm however there was a Firestone shop burned down "owne by some Arabs, also I've heard in the news, of some beatings, and racial graffities* "however that is to be expected, America is full of biggots, if not white, everyone here is concidered a minority group." I'm less than no one, I've not belong to any minority "I'm half & half" LOL.

My 401K in one company evaporated, because instead of counting stocks and holding them, they count money in dollars. So when the stock price drops, money disappears.