...would he recognise the Christians?

...would he recognise the Christians?
No. By all accounts they are much more tolerant and peaceful than the ones of his time.

He'd smite them all for being pussies. Seriously. Read the bible and tell me I'm wrong.

If I am not mistaken, there were no Christians in Jesus's lifetime.

I may be wrong.

If I am not mistaken, there were no Christians in Jesus's lifetime.

I may be wrong.
His followers weren't christians? Hmm...

He would recognize them as they killed him, again. His followers did not follow orthodox Christianity as it came to be known hundreds of years later.

His followers weren't christians? Hmm...

I thought he was a Jew. Only text written back then in that place was by the Jews. They wrote the first Bible, Old Testament, remember.

Ok then. I take it back.

I thought he was a Jew. Only text written back then in that place was by the Jews. They wrote the first Bible, New Testament, remember.

Jews wrote the New Testament?:confused:

He would ignore the christians, and present himself to the Jews as the messiah...returning to claim his people.

I think he'd prefer the atheists over the Christians.. lol

I think he'd prefer the atheists over the Christians.. lol

He would possibly turn everyone into frogs. This would usher in world peace.

Jews wrote the New Testament?:confused:

Another thought was inside my mind when I wrote that, sorry, I've corrected. Thanks for pointing that out. ;)

He would recognize them as they killed him, again.

I see a pattern here Spidergoat, can we discuss it? Think of me as you therapist.

Jesus rebelled against an orthodox religious tradition that claimed a monopoly on truth. They used that monopoly to accumulate wealth and enforce traditional values. Few of today's Christians would accept anything so radical as a Jesus. They would certainly align themselves with the authoritarian rulers of our empire.

Jesus rebelled against an orthodox religious tradition that claimed a monopoly on truth. They used that monopoly to accumulate wealth and enforce traditional values. Few of today's Christians would accept anything so radical as a Jesus. They would certainly align themselves with the authoritarian rulers of our empire.

Amen!

...would he recognise the Christians?

He would and does recognise the true Christians.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

No. By all accounts they are much more tolerant and peaceful than the ones of his time.

He'd smite them all for being pussies. Seriously. Read the bible and tell me I'm wrong.

1)There where no Christians until the day of Pentecost.

2) He loves us for our love for His mercy and longsuffering towards us. So no. He will not be smiting us.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

1)There where no Christians until the day of Pentecost.

2) He loves us for our love for His mercy and longsuffering towards us. So no. He will not be smiting us.

1. There were no Christians until Paul invented Christianity.

2. Jesus doesnt smite. Why bother when you can promise hell instead.

...would he recognise the Christians?

Well the people we think of as the first Christians were, like Jesus, Jews. So it might be odd to find that Jews are specifically not followers of Jesus - except for Jews for Jesus.

I am quite sure Jesus would find it fascinating the version of him put forward in the Bible and then the interpretations of the version(s) of him presented there. And then he'd shock the lot of them by pointing out what was incorrect.

Christians wouldn't recognize Jesus. They would call him anti-christ, devil or something like that...

...would he recognise the Christians?

Why wouldn't the mythical son of a mythical being not recognize his followers? :rolleyes:

I don´t think Jesus would discriminate people for what they call themselves, everybody is identified with something fake anyway; so why take it on Christians when there are so many many other people with false identifications such as nationality, morals, religions, etc.?
For one thing, even if Jesus would speak to everyone, I think Christians would be the last people who would pay attention to him; they would literally crucify him again if they could for acting like a genuine person.

Atheists are more likely to pay attention to a man like Jesus, who would be able to give truthfull answers for those who are truly seeking...

Christians wouldn't recognize Jesus. They would call him anti-christ, devil or something like that...

That is quite a stretch. What is a Christian? someone who believes in Jesus or something else:shrug:

Someone that believes that Jesus is God become flesh..

Someone that believes that Jesus is God become flesh..

my mom and the people of her church.

In 100 years, 'Christianity' will likely be the name of a Mental Health disorder.

Or Possibly a widespread case of Mass delusion.

For one thing, even if Jesus would speak to everyone, I think Christians would be the last people who would pay attention to him; they would literally crucify him again if they could for acting like a genuine person.

Atheists are more likely to pay attention to a man like Jesus, who would be able to give truthfull answers for those who are truly seeking...

I completely agree.

In 100 years, 'Christianity' will likely be the name of a Mental Health disorder.

Or Possibly a widespread case of Mass delusion.

ok, in 100 years from now.:rolleyes:

ok, in 100 years from now.:rolleyes:

Possibly sooner.

But as we both know, it's a widespread disorder. It will take decades for many to accept.

He'd start raising folks from the dead and have an entourage of zombies. He might even invite them all to a Supper to drink his blood and eat his flesh. He wouldn't get much publicity turning a few loafs of bread into hundreds to feed the multitudes....Mcdonalds has already served billions.

After Jesus comes, he's going to make us clean it up....

1. There were no Christians until Paul invented Christianity.

2. Jesus doesnt smite. Why bother when you can promise hell instead.

Your first point is not worth replying to.

Jesus will smite and on a massive scale at lest 200million solders of the beast will be virtually liquefied upon His return.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Your first point is not worth replying to.

Jesus will smite and on a massive scale at lest 200million solders of the beast will be virtually liquefied upon His return.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

What makes you think Jesus wants you to announce something this confusing to people over the internet?

Did you have Jesus' message of love in your heart when you wrote that?

You don't need to answer me, because honestly, I would not trust you to know your own heart well enough to answer with the truth. I just think you should consider finding out what you are really doing when you post things like that.

do you think Jesus would think Buddhists were his followers? They seem a lot more peaceful and forgiving.

He would and does recognise the true Christians.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

But what would he do to them ?

All Praise the Age of Reason

Your first point is not worth replying to.

Jesus will smite and on a massive scale at lest 200million solders of the beast will be virtually liquefied upon His return.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Are you referring to gentle Jesus, meek and mild ? They had no concept of 200 million in biblical times but don't let that stop you.


All Hail the Age of Reason

do you think Jesus would think Buddhists were his followers? They seem a lot more peaceful and forgiving.

He'd recognize Quakers.

He'd recognize Quakers.

oh yeah, I forgot about them.

What about the Amish?

That is quite a stretch. What is a Christian? someone who believes in Jesus or something else:shrug:

a christian is obviously someone who believes in christ. what else?

jesus has returned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VNz8I-ZDMo

and if you view the comments you can see all christians calling him the devil. but according to him (jesus miranda) the devil does not exist.

do you think Jesus would think Buddhists were his followers? They seem a lot more peaceful and forgiving.

I have often thought that buddhists would find coming to Jesus easier than most non-believers. But i have found that often the closer one is to God the harder it is to get them to move to God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

do you think Jesus would think Buddhists were his followers? They seem a lot more peaceful and forgiving.

I suppose that would depend on whether Jesus has a lot of hangups about religous idealogy like so many fundamentalists and literalists do.

The few Budhists I have talked to accept Jesus and many of his finer teachings but they reject the doctrines and idealogies that have been built up around him .

Of course He would recognize us as a father recognizes His children. He loves us despite our imperfections. :)

Are you referring to gentle Jesus, meek and mild ?





All Hail the Age of Reason

Jesus gave up wrath out of loving longsuffering towards mankind. But longsuffering is not eternal suffering and He will bring wrath upon this earth. Judgement delayed in the hope of repentance is not Judgement eternaly blocked.



They had no concept of 200 million in biblical times but don't let that stop you.

LOL :) You know you are right, the human beings of the day did not have the concept of such a vast number. Thats why God gave the number to John when He recieved the Revelation. And of cource we know today that an army of 200million is possable,

Revelation 9
15And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.


Do the calculations two hundred thousand thousand is equal to 200 million.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

If He exist He is in your mind already, God that He is, so surely He can spot you right on :D

[QUOTE=Adstar;1689720]Jesus gave up wrath out of loving longsuffering towards mankind. But longsuffering is not eternal suffering and He will bring wrath upon this earth. Judgement delayed in the hope of repentance is not Judgement eternaly blocked.

I can't be the only one who thinks you are revelling in the idea of all those people being " smitten ". You have something nasty inside you struggling to get out.

LOL :) You know you are right, the human beings of the day did not have the concept of such a vast number. Thats why God gave the number to John when He recieved the Revelation. And of cource we know today that an army of 200million is possable,
Revelation 9
15And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.


So you were misquoting the Bible to impress us with what seems like a larger number. Or do you believe that god doesn't know what a million is ? Or John unable to write it down? Why does so much in the Bible have to be interpreted ? Is it because god isn't quite literate , or numerate in this case ?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days


All Praise the Age of Reason

oh yeah, I forgot about them.

What about the Amish?

I'd say they were a borderline case but let's be generous and give then the benefit of the doubt.

Of course He would recognize us as a father recognizes His children. He loves us despite our imperfections. :)

Hi Sandy

Has anyone ever been smitten by you and did it lead to begetting ?

Hi Sandy

Has anyone ever been smitten by you and did it lead to begetting ?

:confused:

I think if Christ was to return...he'd give me one of these looks:

http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/BuddyJesus.jpg

I think if Christ was to return...he'd give me one of these looks:

http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/BuddyJesus.jpg

I thought he wore his heart on his sleeve.

:confused:


You'll find lots about smiting and begetting in the Bible. You are probably not familiar with the idiom that someone has been smitten when he falls in love

[QUOTE=Adstar;1689720]Jesus gave up wrath out of loving longsuffering towards mankind. But longsuffering is not eternal suffering and He will bring wrath upon this earth. Judgement delayed in the hope of repentance is not Judgement eternaly blocked.

I can't be the only one who thinks you are revelling in the idea of all those people being " smitten ". You have something nasty inside you struggling to get out.

I get that a lot from God haters in here. They get this feeling that moves them deep inside to hate me. But the hatred for me is just an extension of the hatred for God. See an unaffected person would just read the statement i made as it is. Without injecting "nasty" intentions in it. But people who are effected need to justify their rejection of God and His messengers by injecting nasty intentions into their words, It helps them feel justified in rejecting them.



LOL :) You know you are right, the human beings of the day did not have the concept of such a vast number. Thats why God gave the number to John when He recieved the Revelation. And of cource we know today that an army of 200million is possable,
Revelation 9
15And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.




So you were misquoting the Bible to impress us with what seems like a larger number. Or do you believe that god doesn't know what a million is ? Or John unable to write it down?

:D John wrote down the right number, He just used another way of stating it. One that it different but still correct. You really are clutching at straws here do you know that?





Why does so much in the Bible have to be interpreted ? Is it because god isn't quite literate , or numerate in this case ?

Interpreted :eek: You mean to actually put forward that interpreting "two hundred thousand thousand" to mean 200 million is some kind of impossible act of spiritual deduction beyond the ability of normal men????

I guess most people looking on to our conversation would have no trouble figuring out that "two hundred thousand thousand" is equal to 200 million. You really have cracked haven’t you.




All Praise the Age of Reason

If you only used some before you made your reply.




All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I get that a lot from God haters in here. They get this feeling that moves them deep inside to hate me. But the hatred for me is just an extension of the hatred for God. See an unaffected person would just read the statement i made as it is. Without injecting "nasty" intentions in it. But people who are effected need to justify their rejection of God and His messengers by injecting nasty intentions into their words, It helps them feel justified in rejecting them.

How nice for you. You get to label people god-haters and servants of satan
and this is not malice on your part
but if anyone notices the rage and hope for vengeance in you
we are projecting.

How immaculate.

You have a very high opinion of yourself. You claim to see with the pure eyes of God.

Of course He would recognize us as a father recognizes His children. He loves us despite our imperfections. :)
*************
M*W: How clever! A supernatural being who doesn't really exist but still loves you! Do those people following you think you're paranoid?

.

How nice for you. You get to label people god-haters and servants of satan
and this is not malice on your part
but if anyone notices the rage and hope for vengeance in you
we are projecting.

How immaculate.

You have a very high opinion of yourself. You claim to see with the pure eyes of God.

And now you try to paste moral pride upon me.

Get this. I have had this same kind of pointless boring attacks from anti-christs for a long time now and i am bored to the max with it. You can waste your time tagging me with whatever motives you like sunshine, but know this. all your words fall like water of a ducks back.

There is on One who's assessment of me i care for And He knows me. He does convict me from time to time when i act like a fool as a good Parent who disciplines His children should.

Now if you have any other points you want to bring up, points that relate to God, then do so. But please save us from all this finger waving #$*% that your wasting your time on now.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

If it truly was like "water of[f] a duck's back," would we actually be reading your post? Clearly you aren't being honest either with us or yourself.

I admit i am truly frustrated with the time wasting that all these. "Your a nasty person" posts that are directed at me. So i reply out of frustration at time wasted rather than out of feeling guilty about any of the false allegations that are thrown at me by people who simply hate the message i give and decide to try to undermine the message by attacking the one who delivers it.

So yeah maybe some water does get under my feathers but not the water of guilt for being a nasty person but the water of frustration from having to reply to false accusers who are wasting my time with their vain attempts as character assassination.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Fair enough.

And now you try to paste moral pride upon me.

Get this. I have had this same kind of pointless boring attacks from anti-christs for a long time now and i am bored to the max with it. You can waste your time tagging me with whatever motives you like sunshine, but know this. all your words fall like water of a ducks back.

There is on One who's assessment of me i care for And He knows me. He does convict me from time to time when i act like a fool as a good Parent who disciplines His children should.

Now if you have any other points you want to bring up, points that relate to God, then do so. But please save us from all this finger waving #$*% that your wasting your time on now.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I am sorry that you can't see the mote of my pointing out your pride in your abilities
and how it compares to the beam
of your calling me
an
ANTI-CHRIST and a servant of Satan.

I admit i am truly frustrated with the time wasting that all these. "Your a nasty person" posts that are directed at me. So i reply out of frustration at time wasted rather than out of feeling guilty about any of the false allegations that are thrown at me by people who simply hate the message i give and decide to try to undermine the message by attacking the one who delivers it.

So yeah maybe some water does get under my feathers but not the water of guilt for being a nasty person but the water of frustration from having to reply to false accusers who are wasting my time with their vain attempts as character assassination.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days


How about we get together and grovel about on our knees before god and then go out and do a bit of smiting. Those false accusers don't know what's coming to them.


All Praise the Age of Reason

Jesus would be hated by the religious leaders of all the Christian churches because He would be against all forms of expliotation including selling the His name and His word for self-gain. For self-gain come in many forms which we see in the world.

For some strange reason, Christians do not believe they would reject Jesus as He has been rejected before.

It is written in John 15:19 that the world loves its own, but he who is chosen by Jesus the world will hate.

If Jesus descended to earth today, would He be a Christian as defined by the 1000 different Christian sects?

If He not a Catholic, the Catholics would reject Him.

If He not a Mormon, the Mormons would reject Him.

If He not a JW, the JWs would reject Him.

If He not a right-wing Christian Fundimentalist, they would reject Him.

If He not a -----, the ----s would reject Him also and so on.

Does anyone understand?

For those that do not understand:

John 15:18 -25 > "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his Master.' If they prescuted Me, they will also prescute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know HIM who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates the FATHER also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My FATHER. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, 'They hated Me without a cause."


If Jesus returned today 'They would hated Him without a cause." and also the one Jesus choses would be hated by the religious leaders.

For those that do not understand:

John 15:18 -25 > "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his Master.' If they prescuted Me, they will also prescute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know HIM who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates the FATHER also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My FATHER. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, 'They hated Me without a cause."


If Jesus returned today 'They would hated Him without a cause." and also the one Jesus choses would be hated by the religious leaders.

Then what's the point of coming back ?

If Jesus descended to earth today, He would say, "The one that blinded Saul on the road to Damascus was not Me!"

If Jesus descended to earth today, He would say, "The one that blinded Saul on the road to Damascus was not Me!"

That's his reason for coming back ? lol :p

The Damascus road event is the genesis of Christianity. Saul/St.Paul's disciples were first called Christian at Antioch. > Acts 11:26.

The angel of light that said to Saul on the road to Damascus, 'I am the Christ', 'I am He', 'I am Jesus', has come to deceive the world, and has done so with great success as written in 'The Revelation' >>> "--- Satan, who deceives the whole world" < Rev.12:9 + Rev.18:23 > "--- all the nations were deceived." Satan deceived all the nations by saying to Saul, 'I am Jesus' making Saul into St.Paul to be the chief apostle and founder of Christianity.

It is written that Jesus warned, "For many will come in My name saying, 'I am the Christ' and will deceive many" > Matt. 24:5, and in Mark 13:6 is "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He' and will deceive many."


If Jesus descended to earth today the foundation of all the Christian churches will crumble because the true personality of St.Paul's Jesus will be revealed to the world.

The Damascus road event is the genesis of Christianity. Saul/St.Paul's disciples were first called Christian at Antioch. > Acts 11:26.

The angel of light that said to Saul on the road to Damascus, 'I am the Christ', 'I am He', 'I am Jesus', has come to deceive the world, and has done so with great success as written in 'The Revelation' >>> "--- Satan, who deceives the whole world" < Rev.12:9 + Rev.18:23 > "--- all the nations were deceived." Satan deceived all the nations by saying to Saul, 'I am Jesus' making Saul into St.Paul to be the chief apostle and founder of Christianity.

It is written that Jesus warned, "For many will come in My name saying, 'I am the Christ' and will deceive many" > Matt. 24:5, and in Mark 13:6 is "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He' and will deceive many."


If Jesus descended to earth today the foundation of all the Christian churches will crumble because the true personality of St.Paul's Jesus will be revealed to the world.

What then is the point of him coming back ?

What then is the point of him coming back ?

He'll be back tomorrow, as he is naught but the Sun(Son) in the sky. It makes no difference weather you subscribe to the doctrines of Peter, John, Paul, or any other "prophet". All these men are nothing more than initiates of the mystery schools preaching the message of the Solar Messiah who existed at least as far back as Horus of Egypt. So some people don't recognize the legitimacy of Paul because Paul was more a Roman persecutor of Christians than a Christian. Whatever, still boils down to Sun worship no matter who the representative is.

He'll be back tomorrow, as he is naught but the Sun(Son) in the sky. It makes no difference weather you subscribe to the doctrines of Peter, John, Paul, or any other "prophet". All these men are nothing more than initiates of the mystery schools preaching the message of the Solar Messiah who existed at least as far back as Horus of Egypt. So some people don't recognize the legitimacy of Paul because Paul was more a Roman persecutor of Christians than a Christian. Whatever, still boils down to Sun worship no matter who the representative is.

Sun worship at least makes some sense..

I don´t think Jesus would discriminate people for what they call themselves, everybody is identified with something fake anyway; so why take it on Christians when there are so many many other people with false identifications such as nationality, morals, religions, etc.? For one thing, even if Jesus would speak to everyone, I think Christians would be the last people who would pay attention to him; they would literally crucify him again if they could for acting like a genuine person.

Atheists are more likely to pay attention to a man like Jesus, who would be able to give truthfull answers for those who are truly seeking...
*************
M*W: Well, I finally have something to agree with you about! If Jesus should return (which I'm not waiting for), if he could convince me that I'm wrong about atheism, I might give him a listen. Although, I agree with you that christians might be the last people to recognize him. I just want to know the truth, and if he can convince me of his truth, I might listen. Then again, I might not.

Sun worship at least makes some sense..

Makes perfect sense, after all what provides the source for all life on Earth? To worship it as a deity is not really all that illogical. What is illogical is to anthropomorphize it into something that can hardly be recognized for what it is anymore (unless you are among the initiated elite that is).

...would he recognise the Christians?
*************
M*W: S.A.M., I don't think so.

Makes perfect sense, after all what provides the source for all life on Earth? To worship it as a deity is not really all that illogical. What is illogical is to anthropomorphize it into something that can hardly be recognized for what it is anymore (unless you are among the initiated elite that is).

Recognition makes perfect sense, worship... well it never makes much sense really..

If I am not mistaken, there were no Christians in Jesus's lifetime.

I may be wrong.
*************
M*W: S.A.M., I think you may be right.

For this reason I would say that the Vatican is really the only legitimate Christian church, since that is where the initiated priest class that knows the esoteric truth resides. The Protestant church leaders only possess the exoteric knowledge and therefor have no understanding of the underlying hidden truth contained in the scriptures.

How can one interpret an encrypted document without the cyphers? Only the initiated can do this. Note the symbol of the Papacy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Emblem_of_the_Papacy_SE.svg/200px-Emblem_of_the_Papacy_SE.svg.png
The "keys" (or cyphers?) to heaven and earth.

The Sun recognizes all its children, that includes all animals, plants, bacteria, molds/fungus, viruses, etc.

He loves and nurtures all life equally!:)

His followers weren't christians? Hmm...
*************
M*W: I don't think they were. Christianity didn't really become a household word in after the first century. By then, there were no eye-witnesses. That is not to say there were eye-witnesses during the first century. I have never heard of eye-witnesses during the actual "time" of Jesus. That is what the rule seems to be that there were no eye-witnesses at all...ever at any time.

The NT was written in late in the first century, not even in the early first century. By then, Rome (and Paul... let's assume there was a Paul) started writing the Epistles and later on, the Gospels. Something's not right in Denmark. There was no Paul, but assuming there was, there are just way too many contradictions in the NT to make it believeable. I think Paul was a pseudonym for Apollo. I don't think he wrote anything. Hell, he didn't even exist. So, who, was the actual writer of the NT? I still say it was Josephus. If you go to the Works of Josephus translated by Whitson, it becomes pretty obvious that Paul didn't exist, and Jesus didn't exist, and christianity was a farce from day one, and the NT was written by the Romans as a parody of god... but that's just me.

The Sun recognizes all its children, that includes all animals, plants, bacteria, molds/fungus, viruses, etc.

He loves and nurtures all life equally!:)

It nurtures all life equally, but it doesn't love or recognize. The sun is not a sentient being.

"M*W: I don't think they were"

Right. I think I retracted my statement along the line somewhere...

I thought he was a Jew. Only text written back then in that place was by the Jews. They wrote the first Bible, Old Testament, remember.
*************
M*W: Let's go one step further with that theory. Josephus was a Jew, and I believe he wrote the NT.

He would recognize them as they killed him, again. His followers did not follow orthodox Christianity as it came to be known hundreds of years later.*************
M*W: So true.

It nurtures all life equally, but it doesn't love or recognize. The sun is not a sentient being.

I know, I was being facetious. :D

Christians wouldn't recognize Jesus. They would call him anti-christ, devil or something like that...*************
M*W: Oh, Yorda, you are so wise.

Why wouldn't the mythical son of a mythical being not recognize his followers? :rolleyes:
*************
M*W: Yes, so true!

I know, I was being facetious. :D

lol I was beginning to worry here.. ;)

In 100 years, 'Christianity' will likely be the name of a Mental Health disorder.

Or Possibly a widespread case of Mass delusion.
*************
M*W: Amen, and I'll write a prescription for appropriate medication.

ok, in 100 years from now.:rolleyes:
*************
M*W: John, I realize you are living in the present, but you have no clue what will happen a hundred years from now.

do you think Jesus would think Buddhists were his followers? They seem a lot more peaceful and forgiving.
*************
M*W: I think you're right. If Jesus returns, he won't find any followers.

Of course He would recognize us as a father recognizes His children. He loves us despite our imperfections. :)
*************
M*W: Lake of fire for you, sandy!

I don´t think Jesus would discriminate people for what they call themselves, everybody is identified with something fake anyway; so why take it on Christians when there are so many many other people with false identifications such as nationality, morals, religions, etc.?
For one thing, even if Jesus would speak to everyone, I think Christians would be the last people who would pay attention to him; they would literally crucify him again if they could for acting like a genuine person.

Atheists are more likely to pay attention to a man like Jesus, who would be able to give truthfull answers for those who are truly seeking...


I very much appreciate what you have said here.

It nurtures all life equally, but it doesn't love or recognize. The sun is not a sentient being.

So on this issue you are not simply atheistic - which in this case would mean, you had no reason to believe the sun was sentient - but are willing to go so far as to say
you believe the sun is not sentient. Not simply a lack of belief, but a belief in a lack.

Why don't you take the same step in relation to God?
Why is your atheism there simply a lack of belief?

If Jesus descended to earth today, He would prevent humans from totally annihilating themselves.

---> "No flesh would be saved, but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days" > Mark 13:20 + Matt. 24:22.

Jesus is already here...he sells hotdogs!!:)

If Jesus descended to earth today, He would prevent humans from totally annihilating themselves.

---> "No flesh would be saved, but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days" > Mark 13:20 + Matt. 24:22.

There you have it. No need for further discussion. Is it possible that some of the elect got to be that way because of celestial hanging chads ?

If I am not mistaken, there were no Christians in Jesus's lifetime.

I may be wrong.you're right, they called themselves followers of "the Way", they were first called "Christians" in Antioch years later, if you ever read the Bible to get yourself firsthand knowledge of Christianity, you would know all the answers to the questions you seem to want an answer for, just a thought

Jesus is already here...he sells hotdogs!!:)

yeah, was that Jesus Vega, neighborhood activist or Jesus Vega, new US Marine?

http://www.armeria.gob.mx/comunicacion/boletines/abril/rec_salvavidas/mr.JPG
http://www.defendamerica.mil/images/photos/mar2004/index/ii030804k.jpg

...would he recognise the Christians?no, the question for you is, "why wouldn't He recognize muslims as His followers?

the only thing He would know about muslims is, that at every turn Muslim gov's & many muslims discriminate against, harass & kill His followers, which is exactly as He said would happen, read below:

Jhn 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.
Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Jhn 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
Jhn 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

from: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn015.html#20

no, the question for you is, "why wouldn't He recognize muslims as His followers?

the only thing He would know about muslims is, that at every turn Muslim gov's & many muslims discriminate against, harass & kill His followers, which is exactly as He said would happen, read below:

He must have had a crystal ball because Mohammed wasn't about at the time. Or is it not the case that he was just making a general statement which you can now conveniently apply to Muslims.

Could he not have have meant people dropping bombs on innocent civilians ?

It's all a matter of interpretation as any Christian group will tell you if you ask why they believe they are right and others wrong

I admit i am truly frustrated with the time wasting that all these. "Your a nasty person" posts that are directed at me. So i reply out of frustration at time wasted rather than out of feeling guilty about any of the false allegations that are thrown at me by people who simply hate the message i give and decide to try to undermine the message by attacking the one who delivers it.

So yeah maybe some water does get under my feathers but not the water of guilt for being a nasty person but the water of frustration from having to reply to false accusers who are wasting my time with their vain attempts as character assassination.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
*************
M*W: Adstar, you are really on the verge of sacreledge. What you believe is truly on the verge of delusional. I know that you are intelligent, but you don't show it. What you believe is ridiculous. You are only fooling yourself. Try to rethink your position. You are totally in left field. You are not a rational person. I feel that you are delusional to the max.

The best thing for Jesus to do would be to come back as a homeless person. Then he would stand on M*Ws corner and when she rolled up to the corner he would say 'hey i'm Jesus' then M*W would respond with Go fuck yourself.

Well ok, not the best thing he could do but it would be pretty funny.

On this thread we have been communicating 'If Jesus descended to earth'

A question for a new thread is 'will Jesus descend to earth?'

No need for a new thread.

Jesus will descend to earth.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Jesus will descend to earth.

Wait, you mean he's alive and well?!

Damn, and there I was thinking he'd been sacrificed. Oh well..

No need for a new thread.

Jesus will descend to earth.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
*************
M*W: When my ass isn't fat.

Wait, you mean he's alive and well?!

Damn, and there I was thinking he'd been sacrificed. Oh well..

He was sacrificed. But He was raised in the 3rd day and ascended into heaven.

Come on SnakeLord this is basic Christianity. Why did you even post that one liner?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Wait, you mean he's alive and well?!

Damn, and there I was thinking he'd been sacrificed. Oh well..

Yes don't you know? He was sacrificed on December 21, was dead for 3 days, and rose again on December 25. Oh wait, I was talking about the Sun... Oh wait, so was he.

The best thing for Jesus to do would be to come back as a homeless person. Then he would stand on M*Ws corner and when she rolled up to the corner he would say 'hey i'm Jesus' then M*W would respond with Go fuck yourself.

Well ok, not the best thing he could do but it would be pretty funny.

So I suppose the moral is...be nice to homeless people?

So I suppose the moral is...be nice to homeless people?

That should go without saying.

He was sacrificed. But He was raised in the 3rd day and ascended into heaven.

Come on SnakeLord this is basic Christianity. Why did you even post that one liner?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

On miracle I don't understand is how, when he ascended into heaven he managed to sit on his own righthand side. What has scripture to say about this ?

On miracle I don't understand is how, when he ascended into heaven he managed to sit on his own righthand side. What has scripture to say about this ?

I would refer you to the Egyptians to understand the Trinity. How can one god be divided into 3? Well the Egyptians said that the rising sun was the Father, the sun at midday was the Son(Son of the Father), and the setting sun was the Holy Spirit(the sun going into the Underworld to battle Set - hence the term "sunset"). Note that "Holy" is a word derived from the Greek word "helios" meaning sun, and well, you get the idea. All this theology was borrowed from the Egyptians.

That is how he can ascend to his own right hand, because he is merely one of 3 states of the Trinity.

"Holy" is a word derived from the Greek word "helios" meaning sun

Can you show your sources on that one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios

"L.R. Farnell[2] assumed "that sun-worship had once been prevalent and powerful among the people of the pre-Hellenic culture, but that very few of the communities of the later historic period retained it as a potent factor of the state religion"

I think that it is high time for sources to be cited in the religion forum.



O.E. halig "holy," from P.Gmc. *khailagas (cf. O.N. heilagr, Ger. heilig, Goth. hailags "holy"), adopted at conversion for L. sanctus. Primary (pre-Christian) meaning is not impossible to determine, but it was probably "that must be preserved whole or intact, that cannot be transgressed or violated," and connected with O.E. hal (see health) and O.H.G. heil "health, happiness, good luck" (source of the Ger. salutation heil). Use of Holy Land for "western Palestine" dates to 1297. Holy water was in O.E. Holy smoke (1889), holy mackerel (1903), etc., all euphemisms for holy Christ. Phrase holier-than-thou in reference to supercilious sanctimony first recorded 1912 in writings of Theodore Dreiser.

Can you show your sources on that one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios

"L.R. Farnell[2] assumed "that sun-worship had once been prevalent and powerful among the people of the pre-Hellenic culture, but that very few of the communities of the later historic period retained it as a potent factor of the state religion"

I think that it is high time for sources to be cited in the religion forum.


The word "HOLY BIBLE," has an origin, which most religious Christian leaders and said scholars obviously do NOT comprehend NOR have investigated. The word "HOLY" is derived from the Greek word "HELIOS," meaning "SUN" The Greek word "HELIOS" is the corruption of ancient Kama'atic word "ON" another name for "RA" meaning "SUN RAys." The English transliterated word "BIBLE" comes from the Greek word "BYBLOS," (PYPLUS); Latin word "BIBLIOS," which both words were derived the ancient Kama'atic word "PYPRUS---PAPYRUS, hence also, the origin of the English word "PAPER."

Why do you think Christians worship on SUNday? It's not my fault you can't see the obvious. The Sun worship and astrology is all over the Holy Bible (Sun Book). Look at my thread "The end is near!" again and read it. I sited the Bible itself as a reference, what else do you need? I am the first one I know of who has fully interpreted that passage accurately. Then instead of letting it sink in and teach you something you call me a FUCKING ASTROLOGER! Why don't you grow the FUCK up and do your own GODDAMN research.

What do you think? You think the religious establishment is going to tell the truth about something like this? Wake the fuck up, they couldn't do it if they wanted to. This is their dirtiest little secret and they can't let it be exposed or it would be the end for them.

You obviously don't know shit about any of these subjects and are serving to do nothing but waste time here. You have been agnostic all your life and you're not going to change because you're not capable of that change. Personally, I don't care, but I am tired of you making idiotic statements like "I think that it is high time for sources to be cited in the religion forum." when I have shown sources and you ignore them. If you like ignorance that's fine by me, but others just might be here to learn something.

Calm down, no one is right all the time. The Sun is a very important part of humanity, just as important as the Earth itself, i will look for the old sun worship thread. I believe that I did a fine job dispelling some myths. My belief is that Sun Worship is more of a modern fantasy than major impact on history. Obviously referances have been made about the SUN throughout history, that is completely logical. There is no need for anger, and if we think differently we will learn more. No harm done.

Calm down, no one is right all the time. The Sun is a very important part of humanity, just as important as the Earth itself, i will look for the old sun worship thread. I believe that I did a fine job dispelling some myths. My belief is that Sun Worship is more of a modern fantasy than major impact on history. Obviously referances have been made about the SUN throughout history, that is completely logical. There is no need for anger, and if we think differently we will learn more. No harm done.

It is not a modern fantasy. Read Manly P. Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" 1928. He is a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason. Freemasonry today still holds the secret ancient philosophy of the Mystery Schools which was founded on ancient Egyptian theology and philosophy. The elites know this stuff. Manly P. Hall is one of the initiated and knows these truths.

You call it "modern" because it really hasn't been available information for the masses until modern times. That is why it seems to exist as a modern concept, but I can assure you it is nearly as old as man himself!

These are not "myths" to be dispelled, the Bible, on the other hand, is.

It is not a modern fantasy. Read Manly P. Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" 1928. He is a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason. Freemasonry today still holds the secret ancient philosophy of the Mystery Schools which was founded on ancient Egyptian theology and philosophy. The elites know this stuff. Manly P. Hall is one of the initiated and knows these truths.

You call it "modern" because it really hasn't been available information for the masses until modern times. That is why it seems to exist as a modern concept, but I can assure you it is nearly as old as man himself!

Maybe i will read the book but if you are saying i dont know because information has not been available then why would i think that he knows?

Most hidden info supposedly not available to the masses is more artistic than factual, sells book and movies but does not mean i take it seriously. And the people looking for it actually do believe it is true but that STILL does not mean it is. Its all about motivation.

Maybe i will read the book but if you are saying i dont know because information has not been available then why would i think that he knows?

Most hidden info supposedly not available to the masses is more artistic than factual, sells book and movies but does not mean i take it seriously. And the people looking for it actually do believe it is true but that STILL does not mean it is. Its all about motivation.

Whatever dude. You obviously know everything and the rest of us mere mortals can't teach to one as omniscient as you.

Hall is in the initiated class, just like Crowley, and other high level Masons. But your knowledge transcends theirs so it would be pointless for one of your stature to go to such "lesser men" for any information.

I, on the other hand, am not above reading their words, and corroborating their works with the Bible to see where they mesh, so that I might be able to improve the reservoir of my knowledge. Does that mean I agree with everything they say? Of course not! They are pagan theists that believe the Sun, Saturn, and Venus are actually real gods. I am wise enough to see that that is ridiculous, but even so the men understand astrotheology and ancient philosophy better than I.

He was sacrificed. But He was raised in the 3rd day and ascended into heaven.

Come on SnakeLord this is basic Christianity. Why did you even post that one liner?

Because I find it amusing.

Man is bad and the only way to forgive them is for jesus, (it is claimed that he is god), had to sacrifice himself to himself without actually ever being able to die, (unless you assert that for three days god ceased to exist).

So that 3 days was just a big farce. What I don't quite get is what the pretend death of a god and the pretend "oh look, I'm alive again" solved that a simple wave of a hand could not. It would seem ultimately that the fake death was just something to impress humans. Sure, we are all impressed by the acts of great magicians, but we all know the trick is just a trick.

Because I find it amusing.

Man is bad and the only way to forgive them is for jesus, (it is claimed that he is god), had to sacrifice himself to himself without actually ever being able to die, (unless you assert that for three days god ceased to exist).

So that 3 days was just a big farce. What I don't quite get is what the pretend death of a god and the pretend "oh look, I'm alive again" solved that a simple wave of a hand could not. It would seem ultimately that the fake death was just something to impress humans. Sure, we are all impressed by the acts of great magicians, but we all know the trick is just a trick.

It's astrological allegory. That's all it is.

Most certainly. Try telling that to a christian :P

2 points from what i have been reading here.

that of December the 25th and of Sunday worship.

Firstly the claim that Jesus was born on December the 25th has no biblical foundation. This tradition as started by the catholic church as an attempt to take over a pagan day. There is no basis for linking Jesus to pagan traditions by claiming that Jesus was born on the 25th of December because that’s just a false catholic tradition.

Secondly Sunday worship/ sabbath is also a catholic modification to the bible truth. The Bible Sabbath starts at sunset Friday and ends at sunset Saturday. So you cannot use the Sunday sabbath of the catholics or the conforming protestant daughters to link a pagan tradition to the Biblical truth. All you can do is show that the catholic church has been injecting paganism into their bastardised version of christianity over the centuries.

Both christimas and the Sunday sabbath are catholic inventions. Not Christian at all.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Originally Posted by SnakeLord
Because I find it amusing.

Man is bad and the only way to forgive them is for jesus, (it is claimed that he is god), had to sacrifice himself to himself without actually ever being able to die, (unless you assert that for three days god ceased to exist).

The foundation belief you have that leads you to your conclusion is false.

Your foundation belief is that one ceases to exist once one dies. No we never cease to exist, All those who have died still exist they just don't exist in their earthly form.

Jesus suffered death, He experienced the transition as all human beings have done through time.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

2 points from what i have been reading here.

that of December the 25th and of Sunday worship.

Firstly the claim that Jesus was born on December the 25th has no biblical foundation. This tradition as started by the catholic church as an attempt to take over a pagan day. There is no basis for linking Jesus to pagan traditions by claiming that Jesus was born on the 25th of December because that’s just a false catholic tradition.

Secondly Sunday worship/ sabbath is also a catholic modification to the bible truth. The Bible Sabbath starts at sunset Friday and ends at sunset Saturday. So you cannot use the Sunday sabbath of the catholics or the conforming protestant daughters to link a pagan tradition to the Biblical truth. All you can do is show that the catholic church has been injecting paganism into their bastardised version of christianity over the centuries.

Both christimas and the Sunday sabbath are catholic inventions. Not Christian at all.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

-Can you please tell me then what is Christian anyway, what does it mean.
For example our homeland was converted by force to be a Christian.
-If I believe that Jesus was a real person and prophet of somekind, like Buddha and others, but he was just a man,then, am I Christian ?

-Can you please tell me then what is Christian anyway, what does it mean.
For example our homeland was converted by force to be a Christian.

How could your homeland have been converted by force by those who believe Jesus, who follow His teachings? Those that believe Jesus cannot use force to do anything. You homeland might indeed have been forced to conform to a religion but it certainly was not the true Christianity. A distortion of Christianity most likely.




-If I believe that Jesus was a real person and prophet of somekind, like Buddha and others, but he was just a man,then, am I Christian ?

No. Jesus came into the world in a flesh and blood body but He was without sin. Jesus existed in the beginning at the very start of creation. He was with God and He was God. He has control over the eternal destiny of all Humanity and the only way to eternity with God is by Him.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Lets say I live by teachings of Jesus but I dont take him as a God.
Does that mean that I will burn in hell for eternity ?

Lets say I live by teachings of Jesus but I dont take him as a God.
Does that mean that I will burn in hell for eternity ?

Salvation comes from Believing Jesus:

Do you believe Jesus when He said:
John 14
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Well?

Do you believe what Jesus taught Philip is truth? Or do you believe Jesus lied to philip?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The foundation belief you have that leads you to your conclusion is false.

It's all well and good to make bold statements such as that, but what do you have to indicate that things do not cease to exist when they die? Now, you can argue against everything we do know regarding living beings but you will need a little more than your say so.

2 points from what i have been reading here.

that of December the 25th and of Sunday worship.

Firstly the claim that Jesus was born on December the 25th has no biblical foundation. This tradition as started by the catholic church as an attempt to take over a pagan day. There is no basis for linking Jesus to pagan traditions by claiming that Jesus was born on the 25th of December because that’s just a false catholic tradition.

Secondly Sunday worship/ sabbath is also a catholic modification to the bible truth. The Bible Sabbath starts at sunset Friday and ends at sunset Saturday. So you cannot use the Sunday sabbath of the catholics or the conforming protestant daughters to link a pagan tradition to the Biblical truth. All you can do is show that the catholic church has been injecting paganism into their bastardised version of christianity over the centuries.

Both christimas and the Sunday sabbath are catholic inventions. Not Christian at all.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Actually you are wrong.

First the December 25th date is clearly demonstrated as an astrological allegory in the birth, life, and death of Jesus in the gospel. It is encoded astrology. The book of Luke seems to contradict this with what has been pinpointed as a September 11, 4 BC birth date for Jesus, but if you see Revelations 12 which describes the yearly astrological event of 9/11 then you see how Virgo the virgin is giving birth to the Sun as I've explained it in my thread The end is near! (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=75952). So this 9/11 event is reused in the Bible.

However both December 25, and September 11 are legitimate dates for the birth of Jesus when you realize that Jesus is born every day because he is the Sun.

Second, Saturday worship is a Jewish only invention for the worship of their god Saturn, who by the way was the ancient god of the Sun. The NT changes gods from Saturn to the Solar Messiah. So both Saturday and Sunday are days of Sun worship.

The Muslims worship on Friday because they revere Venus, and Hindus worship everyday because they are polytheistic.

It's all well and good to make bold statements such as that, but what do you have to indicate that things do not cease to exist when they die? Now, you can argue against everything we do know regarding living beings but you will need a little more than your say so.

Reverse the position around.

What do you have to indicate that thing cease to exist when they die?

That’s right you cannot.

As for accepting what i say or rejecting what i say about anything, that’s up to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Reverse the position around.

What do you have to indicate that thing cease to exist when they die?

That’s right you cannot.

As for accepting what i say or rejecting what i say about anything, that’s up to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

There is not the slightest bit of evidence to support life after death and that's why I don't believe in it. What evidence have you that I am wrong? And please don't bombard me with what it says in the Bible as I do not regard that as evidence. For once try providing a rational explanation.

As you continue to add posts you show yourself to be more and more cranky. "The Catholic Church is wrong and so is her Protestant daughter "sounds " like you believe everyone got it wrong but Calvin and his followers: do you really believe that ?

What do you have to indicate that thing cease to exist when they die?

You made the bold claim that they don't, it is for you to support.

As for indicating that organisms cease to exist.. It's a long discussion and would involve a lot of information regarding what we do know about the brain.

Salvation comes from Believing Jesus:

Do you believe Jesus when He said:
John 14
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Well?

Do you believe what Jesus taught Philip is truth? Or do you believe Jesus lied to philip?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

-What if Jesus even didnt exist or didnt say those things ?
-If he said that to Philip could he mean that we all can be god likes ?

-What if I tell you the same thing ? :cool:
-Would you kneel and wash my feet ?
-Do you believe the miracles of Jesus, walking on water (sunshine reflecting from surface of water), sharing the two fish (suns presence in constellation of piscies ~ fishes) and rising Lazarus from death (winter solstice, sun being dead for three days) ?

[QUOTE=Adstar;1703236]Salvation comes from Believing Jesus:

Do you believe Jesus when He said:
John 14
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
Well?

Do you believe what Jesus taught Philip is truth? Or do you believe Jesus lied to philip?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The disciples must have been a pretty dim bunch if they failed to recognize who Jesus truly was. Alternatively, they were not as easily taken in as you are

You made the bold claim that they don't, it is for you to support.

As for indicating that organisms cease to exist.. It's a long discussion and would involve a lot of information regarding what we do know about the brain.

I find it a bold claim that we cease to exist after we leave this body. So????

You cannot prove the end of existence after death using science and i cannot prove the continuation of existence after death by using science.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

-What if Jesus even didnt exist or didnt say those things ?
-If he said that to Philip could he mean that we all can be god likes ?

-What if I tell you the same thing ? :cool:
-Would you kneel and wash my feet ?
-Do you believe the miracles of Jesus, walking on water (sunshine reflecting from surface of water), sharing the two fish (suns presence in constellation of piscies ~ fishes) and rising Lazarus from death (winter solstice, sun being dead for three days) ?

Ohhh no not another brain washed one pushing the astrology/ Christianity link....

I find it very hard to take you seriously anymore.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[QUOTE=Adstar;1703236]Salvation comes from Believing Jesus:

Do you believe Jesus when He said:
John 14
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
Well?

Do you believe what Jesus taught Philip is truth? Or do you believe Jesus lied to philip?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The disciples must have been a pretty dim bunch if they failed to recognize who Jesus truly was. Alternatively, they were not as easily taken in as you are

The apostles showed on many occasions through the NT that they did not really know who Jesus was. Only at the very end where their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit.

I will take it from your answer that you do not believe.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

He must have had a crystal ball because Mohammed wasn't about at the time. Or is it not the case that he was just making a general statement which you can now conveniently apply to Muslims.didn't need the crystal ball, Jesus is God, you know the rest


Could he not have have meant people dropping bombs on innocent civilians ?would we have listened? some can't even do the nice things, whats up with that?


It's all a matter of interpretation as any Christian group will tell you if you ask why they believe they are right and others wrongfirst of all, there are things you can not interpret away, any interpretation that goes against the Bible, is false, that divides churches is wrong, that attaches doctrine to culture is wrong, we have leeway, inasmuch as emphasizing ideas or verses up to a point, people that use Acts 2:18 as a test are wrong, mormons that emphasizes prophets or burning bosoms are wrong, the test is the Bible, the Bible interprets Bible

http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2548381/k.973E/Bible_Answer_Man.htm

"Lets say I live by teachings of Jesus but I dont take him as a God."

- Then you are not living by the teachings of Jesus.

For an alleged monotheism, Christianity sure has a lot of gods.

didn't need the crystal ball, Jesus is God, you know the rest

would we have listened? some can't even do the nice things, whats up with that?

first of all, there are things you can not interpret away, any interpretation that goes against the Bible, is false, that divides churches is wrong, that attaches doctrine to culture is wrong, we have leeway, inasmuch as emphasizing ideas or verses up to a point, people that use Acts 2:18 as a test are wrong, mormons that emphasizes prophets or burning bosoms are wrong, the test is the Bible, the Bible interprets Bible

http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2548381/k.973E/Bible_Answer_Man.htm


The Bible does NOT interpret the Bible. It is interpreted by people who read into it whatever suits their particular mindset. Where does it say in the Bible that Acts. 2.18 is wrong ? You are expressing a point of view, that is, giving your interpretation which you believe makes others wrong. They would say the same of you.

[QUOTE=Myles;1703875]

The apostles showed on many occasions through the NT that they did not really know who Jesus was. Only at the very end where their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit.

I will take it from your answer that you do not believe.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Well, if Jesus was so marvellous, raising the dead. walking on water, curing the sick and doing tricks with loaves and fishes why did his apostles not recognize him for what you believe him to be ? So the Holy Spirit has to be invoked to explain this. Why did Jesus keep his cards up his sleeve, so to speak?

Your response is typical of the answers I get from Christians who knock on my door. You explain one untenable situation by introducing another notion which is equally untenable. God moves in mysterious ways; he makes it so difficult to get to know him.Why is that ? He gives us reason but we cannot use it to get to know him. For that we need blind faith.

I find it a bold claim that we cease to exist after we leave this body. So????

So do I.. "leave this body"? What is doing the leaving?

Tell me what happens to a slug when it dies. Does some 'inner-slug' wander off to some slug life part 2 in the sky?

I think he would first cast out the Pat Robertsons of the world along with a few other devils.

"Lets say I live by teachings of Jesus but I dont take him as a God."

- Then you are not living by the teachings of Jesus.

-So the point is OBEY and WORSHIP mangod and accept the theory that he died because of our sins?
-Ones actions doesnt count if you dont accept that Jesus was/is the mangod ?

Ohhh no not another brain washed one pushing the astrology/ Christianity link....

-Sorry but there is lot more of evidence than some link. ? .


I find it very hard to take you seriously anymore.

-Your debating skills make me say...likewise :cool:

If Jesus descended to earth, He may say, "Christians will not like to here what I will say. I understand why many curse My name and do not believe in My name, which is because of all the evil that has been done for My name sake."

'Men have built multitudes of religious institutions/organizations/churches in My name. I have asked no man to build My Church. It is written in Matthew 16:18 that I will build My Church."

There are many Christians have merchandised My name for self-gain which may be for profit, to be admired, for power, and etc..

Woe unto them, they knew My commandments and they did not obey!

well said bat

:bravo: Battig

There is not the slightest bit of evidence to support life after death and that's why I don't believe in it. What evidence have you that I am wrong? And please don't bombard me with what it says in the Bible as I do not regard that as evidence. For once try providing a rational explanation.

As you continue to add posts you show yourself to be more and more cranky. "The Catholic Church is wrong and so is her Protestant daughter "sounds " like you believe everyone got it wrong but Calvin and his followers: do you really believe that ?

No i believe calvin got it wrong also. :) Please read my posts carfully Myles i have stated that i am not a calvanist.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[QUOTE=Adstar;1704655]

Well, if Jesus was so marvellous, raising the dead. walking on water, curing the sick and doing tricks with loaves and fishes why did his apostles not recognize him for what you believe him to be ? So the Holy Spirit has to be invoked to explain this. Why did Jesus keep his cards up his sleeve, so to speak?

Well they read of moses dividing the Red Sea and they read of other prophets doing miracles so to them Jesus was a prophet. Just because Jesus did miracles does not mean that anyone would have automatically understood His nature, the scribes even claimed that Jesus got his power from a demon and thereby blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

As for keeping His cards up his sleeve, sometimes it is necessary to give the whole message before the meaning of the message dawns upon the ones the message is intended for. Maybe the Meaning of the message had to be partially hidden so that the message could be finished, so as to ensure full revelation.


Your response is typical of the answers I get from Christians who knock on my door. You explain one untenable situation by introducing another notion which is equally untenable. God moves in mysterious ways; he makes it so difficult to get to know him.Why is that ? He gives us reason but we cannot use it to get to know him. For that we need blind faith.

No one knows God 100% other than God Himself. A portion of our beliefs are always based on trust in God. But that does not mean that it is 100% blind faith. God has revealed a lot about Himself in scripture, enough for me anyway. I don't have to understand everything 100% before i believe anything. We do not even know the person next to us 100% many people do not even know themselves. We are given enough reason and a conscience to take in the Message of God and be moved to faith or to rebel against it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[QUOTE=Myles;1704828]

Well they read of moses dividing the Red Sea and they read of other prophets doing miracles so to them Jesus was a prophet. Just because Jesus did miracles does not mean that anyone would have automatically understood His nature, the scribes even claimed that Jesus got his power from a demon and thereby blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

As for keeping His cards up his sleeve, sometimes it is necessary to give the whole message before the meaning of the message dawns upon the ones the message is intended for. Maybe the Meaning of the message had to be partially hidden so that the message could be finished, so as to ensure full revelation.



No one knows God 100% other than God Himself. A portion of our beliefs are always based on trust in God. But that does not mean that it is 100% blind faith. God has revealed a lot about Himself in scripture, enough for me anyway. I don't have to understand everything 100% before i believe anything. We do not even know the person next to us 100% many people do not even know themselves. We are given enough reason and a conscience to take in the Message of God and be moved to faith or to rebel against it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I'm afraid it's business as usual. You talk of god and the Holy Spirit with such confidence but can adduce no evidence to support what you say. You don't answer questions: you just talk your way around them.

Can't you understand that what you personally believe applies to you alone ?
Your friend the Pope will tell us you are wrong because you are not a Catholic. Why is he wrong, given that he is just as convinced that his beliefs are true as you are that he is wrong. The Mormons believe they are right and so on. Each group will claim to be right based on their personal beliefs, so what makes you so sure you are the only one who is right ?

No i believe calvin got it wrong also. :) Please read my posts carfully Myles i have stated that i am not a calvanist.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I said it "sounds like....." because of what you say about lakes of fire and so on. Would you care to tell us who, in your opinion, got it right ?

If Jesus descended to earth, He may say, "Hey all you Christian! What's all arguing and fighting about? Oh! You guys want to know who's right and who's wrong. Do you want to know?"

If Jesus descended to earth, He may say, "Hey all you Christian! What's all arguing and fighting about? Oh! You guys want to know who's right and who's wrong. Do you want to know?"

Well some people who claim to have had a near death experience say they have encountered Jesus and asked him: What is the best /true religion?
Answer: Whatever religion brings you closest to God.
So, you are probably right.
It is we humans who have all these quirky hangups about religion ..not God.

Well some people who claim to have had a near death experience say they have encountered Jesus and asked him: What is the best /true religion?
Answer: Whatever religion brings you closest to God.
So, you are probably right.
It is we humans who have all these quirky hangups about religion ..not God.

Do you know of any who encountered non-Christian gods ? What hogwash.

Do you know of any who encountered non-Christian gods ? What hogwash.

Well, I've read of several cases of people who claim they encountered figures from their particular religion. Seems to depend on what the persons' religous or spiritual beliefs were.


Hogwash..perhaps. That's your opinion of course.
You can check out this link yourself if you want.

http://www.near-death.com/

Well, I've read of several cases of people who claim they encountered figures from their particular religion. Seems to depend on what the persons' religous or spiritual beliefs were.


Hogwash..perhaps. That's your opinion of course.
You can check out this link yourself if you want.

http://www.near-death.com/

No need. I am aware of ndes. I anticipated your response. Why do you think it is that figures from a person's religious beliefs appear ? Does Jesus appear to Muslims, Mohammed to Christians and so on. Think about it !

Sometimes I wonder if He will...

Sometimes I wonder if He will...

Well, you are going to spend the rest of your life wondering. Have you heard of a part of the brain known as that limbic system ? Do a bit of research; it's more productive than wondering

...would he recognise the Christians?It's not just about the christians.

It's about all people, the bible say that when He comes will He find any faith at all on earth?

If Jesus descended to earth, He may say to all the Christians in the world, "My God is Spirit and He is Holy. The Holy Spirit did not impregnate My mother Mary, Joseph is the quilty one. Also there is something I will tell you about Saul/St.Paul. It was not Me that blinded Saul on that road to Damascus. It is not My character to blind anyone for them to see."

If Jesus descended to earth, He may say to all the Christians in the world, "My God is Spirit and He is Holy. The Holy Spirit did not impregnate My mother Mary, Joseph is the quilty one. Also there is something I will tell you about Saul/St.Paul. It was not Me that blinded Saul on that road to Damascus. It is not My character to blind anyone for them to see."

What would happen to all the Christian institutions if Jesus descended to earth and said the quote above?

oh boy!, I can't believe so much webspace has been used up on this senseless illogical thread!!!

oh boy!, I can't believe so much webspace has been used up on this senseless illogical thread!!!

Better believe it.. lol ;)

It's not just about the christians.

It's about all people, the bible say that when He comes will He find any faith at all on earth?

You are very observant and correct in bringing up this question.

Written in 'The Revelation', John was shown happenings about 'The Lord Day' and one was found worthy to take book/scoll out of the right hand of Jesus.

Why did John weep so much shortly after Jesus the Alpha and the Omega who sat on throne spoke to him? Why did John weep so much shortly after he saw them saying, "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come! --- You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power:"? And why did John weep so much after he said, "I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll ---"?

After John saw scroll in the right hand of Jesus the Lord God Almighty , John saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll". This is when John wept so much "because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it." But one of the elders said to John, "Do not weep" one has prevailed and is found worthy to open and read the scroll. John looked, and behold, --- stood a Lamb as though it had been slain. Then this Lamb came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Jesus the Lord God Almighty . And they sang a new song, saying: ---".


This one who was found worthy is he who comes in of the Lord that overcomes as Jesus overcame. And if you read about he who overcomes in Rev. 2:26. "to him I (Jesus) will give power over the nations --- as I received from My Father" And him that Jesus will give power to is the one that was found worthy to open and read the book.

oh boy!, I can't believe so much webspace has been used up on this senseless illogical thread!!!

Wow! Your one of these people that can't believe what they see.

He must have had a crystal ball because Mohammed wasn't about at the time. Or is it not the case that he was just making a general statement which you can now conveniently apply to Muslims.uuhhh, He's God, He can see into the future

Well, if we really think about it, there is no present thing that we call the Future. One cannot open up the Future and read it like a book, not in the present moment anyway.

If God has an advantage of knowing more than we do what will happen in the Future, then it is because of his greater knowledge of the present circumstances and his greater agency in being able to influence events.

But unless God can tie down every last little variable, then even God has no certainty of what will happen in the Future.

Yes, the notions of Greek Philosophy suppose that God has Absolute Power, and then Christianity was hyjacked, via Paul, into presenting the same Philosophical Case. But Religions of Revelation adhere to the point that there is a Disconnect between God and the World -- Freewill. Zoroastrianism expressed it in terms of there being Agencies of Darkness which mitigate any Absolute Power of God. The Earth becomes a Moral Battleground between Good and Evil, or at least between opposing Interests.

It must become difficult for even God to keep score, or rather for Him to tell us what the exact score will be before the Game is played.