would you be in favor of the war? If all the humanitarian fluffy talk was admitted to be nonsense and the US government said we need oil and now we have it. Furthermore, China is getting big and we want bases nearby so we can lay the smack down on them up close and personal if we have to.

Would you be more or less okay with the war in the middle east if such was revealed to be so?

would you be in favor of the war? If all the humanitarian fluffy talk was admitted to be nonsense and the US government said we need oil and now we have it. Furthermore, China is getting big and we want bases nearby so we can lay the smack down on them up close and personal if we have to.

Would you be more or less okay with the war in the middle east if such was revealed to be so?
I dunno if I would favor the war any more, but I'd at least have a bit more respect (I have zero now) for the gub'mint for being honest about it.
Why can't we drill for our own oil here? I mean if the gub'mint can muster the power to go invade other countries, it can surely find some way to overpower environmentalist weenies where Alaska and the Gulf coast off Florida is concerned.*

*I don't condone haphazardly drilling for oil, I was just speculating.

I dunno if I would favor the war any more, but I'd at least have a bit more respect (I have zero now) for the gub'mint for being honest about it.
Why can't we drill for our own oil here? I mean if the gub'mint can muster the power to go invade other countries, it can surely find some way to overpower environmentalist weenies where Alaska and the Gulf coast off Florida is concerned.*

*I don't condone haphazardly drilling for oil, I was just speculating.

I suspect they don't drill here because we might need it later. Why use your stuff when you can use someone else's first?

I suspect they don't drill here because we might need it later. Why use your stuff when you can use someone else's first?
Haha. That's a good point. But at least we could maybe break ground or get the infrastructure built. But what I was getting at is that I think the only reason we haven't started in that area up in AK and down off the coast of FL is because of environmental whiners; and if the admin can find a way to invade a country on false grounds, it surely can get around a few environmentalist tree huggers.
I'm actually all for drilling up in Alaska and off the coast of Florida, if AND ONLY IF, all environmental concerns are met.
Plus if the gub'mint is that power hungry, we would have more control if we did have our own oil, both in the sense that we would be more independent, AND we would have more of what the rest of the world wants.

I think the market will eventually control everything as it always has. When the price of fuel gets high enough Congress will tap the wells and the tree huggers will move aside. For now the Environmentalists are a convenient reason to keep that ace in the hole.

Like you said, if we can invade innocent countries on false pretense getting around environmentalists should be easy. If the price of fuel went up and the Corporate media blamed tree huggers for it because they are stopping us from oil drilling, how long do you think it would take the public to want to send environmentalists to Gitmo?

Since the USA gets the VAST majority of it's oil from Venezuela... I don't see any need to go to war with the Mideast. Within the realm of this hypothetical situation, I'd vote for war with Chavez long before I'd vote for any more action in the Mideast.

But, to be REALLY serious, I'd just say, "HEY, lets (a) get all electricity production off of imported fossil fuels within the decade and (b) start drilling in the ANWR".

~String

Venezuela is probably on the hit list.

If we get off of imported fossil fuels we'll have to use our own resources first which will cause us to run out faster. Is that such a good idea?

Would you be more or less okay with the war in the middle east if such was revealed to be so?

I would have been okay with it as I've mentioned before. Hey, survival of the fittest. However, since we've already been lied to, their admittance to it wouldn't phase me one bit and I'd still feel disgusted towards this administration. I just can't stand liars, especially when those liars are in such a powerful position as to jeopardize the American people.

Great leaders don't need to lie about their intentions. Too bad these past 40 years have been nothing but shady corrupt administrations out for their own personal greed, not the interests of our country. Just like this recent immigration bill, this is supposed to be a representative republic where our leaders do what the majority wants. However, ask the people in the districts whom they represent and they wouldn't be in favor of that bill, yet the politicians still go ahead and vote in favor of it for their own personal and economic gain, or worse like a certain presidential candidate, vote for it, then when they see the votes are going the wrong way, vote against it to make themselves look better.. just too bad they got caught.

- N

I don't care that the war is about control of the oil. We need to get beyond oil. We should not invest in destroying wildlife areas to get a limited supply of an obsolete fuel that has no future. But Cheney called our way of life "non-negotiable". Environmentalists have been pointing the way for decades, it's time we listen.

I don't care that the war is about control of the oil. We need to get beyond oil. We should not invest in destroying wildlife areas to get a limited supply of an obsolete fuel that has no future. But Cheney called our way of life "non-negotiable". Environmentalists have been pointing the way for decades, it's time we listen.

You might want to check up on the meaning of obsolete. There's too many of us buying gas to call oil an obsolete fuel. Environmentalists are a bunch of no nothing whiners. Can you name one workable solution to any problem they've ever come up with? Until we get a viable solution to the oil problem we're stuck where we are. I think its a good thing we're in the middle east because of this. That said, I don't like being lied to and the immigration issue really bothers me. Its like someone wants to fundamentally wreck America by throwing a few big monkeywrenches in the works. Namely spending and immigration.

would you be in favor of the war? If all the humanitarian fluffy talk was admitted to be nonsense and the US government said we need oil and now we have it. Furthermore, China is getting big and we want bases nearby so we can lay the smack down on them up close and personal if we have to.

Would you be more or less okay with the war in the middle east if such was revealed to be so?

It sucks, but China is about two decades away from doing all that nasty shit that everybody claims the USA is doing. For better or worse, a US presence there will be a good thing when that time comes.

~String

Well, as for getting oil, why doesnt the USA find some peaceful business solution? So, when the middle east gains power (they are already growing as an important region), they can just invade america on false pretenses like 'taking out terrorists' and steal america's resources?

they can just invade america on false pretenses like 'taking out terrorists' and steal america's resources?

Well, the oil's runnin' out and only one Mideast nation has invested seriously in alternative industries... and that's the UAE, and what a surprise, it's investing in tourism and is westernizing it's entire nation in the process. No wonder it's standard of living is increasing so rapidly!

Oh, and as for the "invading America" part: the Mideast would first have to "unite" and considering that they can't even walk down the street without blowing someone up, I'm not so certain that we American's will have too much to worry about other than the occasional terrorist attack. Also, there's that whole "Mutually Assured Distruction" thing that would ensure the soverignty of the USA against any foreign invasion.

~String

Well, as for getting oil, why doesnt the USA find some peaceful business solution? So, when the middle east gains power (they are already growing as an important region), they can just invade america on false pretenses like 'taking out terrorists' and steal america's resources?

Its easier to destroy the US from within, their lifestyle and economy is unsustainable.

Well, as for getting oil, why doesnt the USA find some peaceful business solution? So, when the middle east gains power (they are already growing as an important region), they can just invade america on false pretenses like 'taking out terrorists' and steal america's resources?

We can't do it peacefully because everyone is on to our printing lots of money in an inflationary way which we are not willing to change. The only thing left is gun barrel diplomacy. The middle east is going to be one big impoverished sand box after the oil is gone.

Not really, middle east countries are starting to look beyond oil as their main source of income. The problem with oil is that, it's not constant and it will run out

The middle east is going to be one big impoverished sand box after the oil is gone.

I doubt it.

The middle east is going to be one big impoverished sand box after the oil is gone.

What was the Middle East before that thing called "oil" was found to be so greatly needed? Seems they did okay the past, oh, 4,000+ years before the demand of oil came to be. It's not like oil helps the average joe out there anyways since most of the income goes to the select few royal families in those countries.

- N

What do you guys think they're going to do there when the oil is gone? Other than make a giant glass factory for all that sand I don't know what else the Middle East has going for it. If I'm not mistaken the climate was different thousands of years ago and lots of the wealth there was made between Europe and China trade, maybe thats a possibility.

The Middle East still has alot of industry besides oil.

Rice, Bread, Sugar cane, Dates, Figs, Coconuts, Olive Oil, Meat export, textiles, steel industry, natural gas, jewelry, and for the next 100+ years they still have oil.

The middle east is heading towards the technology age. Of course, they will be a rich power soon. Business and technological development is the way to go!

The middle east is heading towards the technology age. Of course, they will be a rich power soon. Business and technological development is the way to go!

Israel yes, the rest of the Middle East? ROTFLMAO:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

That post made no sense

Ever heard of Dubai? or Iran?

Israel is held back, weak, and pathetic.

Iran ROTFLMAO:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Israel ROTFLMAO. A bunch of cavemen in huts, lol

You might want to check up on the meaning of obsolete. There's too many of us buying gas to call oil an obsolete fuel. Environmentalists are a bunch of no nothing whiners. Can you name one workable solution to any problem they've ever come up with? Until we get a viable solution to the oil problem we're stuck where we are. I think its a good thing we're in the middle east because of this. That said, I don't like being lied to and the immigration issue really bothers me. Its like someone wants to fundamentally wreck America by throwing a few big monkeywrenches in the works. Namely spending and immigration.

When we all wake up we will realize that all those "whiners" were right. By obsolete I mean it has no future. There are workable solutions that require political action that is answerable only to the people, not corporate interests. Those solutions involve investing in sustainable infrastructure like trains, rebuilding livable cities not suburbs, nuclear power, and to a lesser extent wind, water, wave and solar power. Let's invest in sustainable local agriculture, reduce population growth, and reduce energy requirements at all levels.

When we all wake up we will realize that all those "whiners" were right. By obsolete I mean it has no future. There are workable solutions that require political action that is answerable only to the people, not corporate interests. Those solutions involve investing in sustainable infrastructure like trains, rebuilding livable cities not suburbs, nuclear power, and to a lesser extent wind, water, wave and solar power. Let's invest in sustainable local agriculture, reduce population growth, and reduce energy requirements at all levels.


See, this is what I mean by offering unworkable solutions. America is a big place. You get one city to do what you suggest and your ideas will go from pipe dreams to reality.

If everyone quit smoking what a wonderful world it would be...

The vast majority of people will not change until they are compelled to. Even if the change will be good for them and those they love. If you can work with that in mind you can move mountains. If you ignore it you can be the smartest man in the world but ineffective just the same.

on the subject of oil, I still say it's more Tsun Tsu than a need for a diminishing resource.

I'm sure I have a recollection of reading an abstract of his war diary that suggested when you go to war with an enemy and enter their land to use their Resources as apposed to your own supply line. As this will remove resources from your enemies grasp while strengthening your resolve (since if your supply lines attacked your offensive doesn't crumble.)

I'm not suggesting they managed to gain a resource to turn against Iraq, however with questionable allegiances in that part of the world the oil could of been used in trade for various products that we all know certain countries dabbled with and they of course could have been used on the countries that now have control over those resources.