Ladies and gentlemen, we now bring you our Main Event.

Believe it or not, the fight of the year won't be Hillary vs. Rudy. Or Barack, Fred, Mike, John, Ron, John, or ... or ... okay, there's a lot of candidates, but come on. Bill? Joe? I'm being kind including Ron and the Republican John.

Point being, it might not matter. The fight of the year will involve the candidates only peripherally. A couple of press releases from Newsweek have declared the Great Debate of '08, the Thrilla Not Vanilla, the Clash of the Titans.

Let's get ready to rumble!

Introducing, in the Blue Corner, he's the founder namesake of the the most powerful blog backing the Democratic Party, a Chicago-born former soldier, and the Falafel's favorite Nazi (http://mediamatters.org/items/200707180006) ... Markos "The Kos" Moulitsas!

And fighting from the Red Corner, he's been hailed as the greatest muckraker of our generation, clawing his way from scandal to scandal, engineering the slander of many a good man; he's been called "the Architect", and helped engineer the greatest foreign-policy blunder of our time. Let's give it up for Karl "The Incredible Shithead (http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/gywo.rove.gif)" Rove!

The referee for this bout will be the American people, but none of them actually care.

Okay, seriously ... what the hell was Newsweek thinking?

Oh, right. How silly of me.

Sensational as hell, indeed.

Relevant links:


• Kos announces his new position; Newsweek press release included (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/13/171054/23)
• Huffington Post on Rove; Newsweek press release included (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/15/i-see-your-markos-moulits_n_72839.html)

They need to get these guys a slugfest on MSNBC. Seriously. Vegetable oil, lyrcra thongs, and all. Maybe some Jell-O or tapioca pudding? Contessa Brewer and Tucker Carlson can be the ring card girls.

Go get 'im, Kos.

Seriously, man, did you have any idea it was going to be Rove? Fine. Whatever. Just ... watch where you step. Or don't wear expensive shoes.

I mean, you realize what's going to happen, don't you? Once you drive a stake through Karl's ... oh, wait, right, he doesn't have a heart. Anyway, no matter how badly you slaughter him, people will be mortified. They'll tune in for the spectacle, but they're not actually going to get anything out of it. And all they're going to remember after it's over is that Markos Moulitsas, whose name they think sounds supsiciously foreign, beat the crap out of a retarded, doughy white man.

You may not have sold your soul on this, but I'm pretty sure you just took out a contract on it.

I will vote for Clinton and nothing will change that

Good for you!

Who the fuck are these people???!!! :huh: :shrug:

People who get far too many headlines.

I will vote for Clinton and nothing will change that
Some day you'll look back on your vote like I look back at my vote for Jimmy Carter.

Or not.

At least I grew up.

Some day you'll look back on your vote like I look back at my vote for Jimmy Carter.

Or not.

At least I grew up.

some of who have read your posts might beg to differ

I'm being kind including Ron and the Republican John.

Haha, your all heart:D

Haha, your all heart

Well, I suppose New Hampshire could embarrass the hell out of me on that point. And I am banking on a Ptomaine Tuesday for Hillary to put the Democratic field in order. Funny thing is, I'd prefer a Paul candidacy for the GOP. There's only one Republican candidate that actually has me nervous, and it ain't Ron Paul. To the other, if Hillary's going to blow the election for the Dems, I'd rather lose to Paul than anyone else. No matter how crazy I think some of his ideas are, Congress won't give him much until the Great Independent Revolution of 2010. Which ... probably won't happen.

some of who have read your posts might beg to differ
And in your beg:

Famine is in thy cheeks,
Need and oppression starveth in thine eyes,
Contempt and beggary hang upon thy back;
--Romeo and Juliet (5.1.76)

I will vote for Clinton and nothing will change that

Way to be open-minded with, what? About a year to go before election day?

Way to be open-minded with, what? About a year to go before election day?

I wouldn't stress about it. It's my understaning his one-liner posts aren't meant to be taken seriously. He's been on sort of an absolutist binge, of late: cops (respect no matter what), moderators (respect no matter what), and now Hillary (vote for no matter what) ... I'm paying only enough attention to it right now so that I won't miss it if he ever gets around to having a point.

To the other, maybe he's just that absolute.

There's only one Republican candidate that actually has me nervous, and it ain't Ron Paul.
Now I'm curious. Who is this Republican you fear?

Now I'm curious. Who is this Republican you fear?

One that is being generally ignored. Some Republicans are aware of him, but it seems they don't know what they have. Personally, I would think that Rove was plotting a tactical maneuver, a sudden turnaround just in time for the primary cycle. Because it's almost creepy how conservative voters are complaining about not having a candidate when there is one right under their noses. But such a maneuver would require absolutely astounding party unity down through the rank and file, and that kind of lockstep would be absolutely jaw-dropping, even scary.

It's not actually hard to guess, and it is my custom to wait until the conservatives recognize it before I acknowledge it. For instance, dynastic politics; I was reluctant to say a damn thing about 28 years of Bush/Clinton until that notion made its way into the general discourse. It's a superstition.

I was reluctant to say a damn thing about 28 years of Bush/Clinton until that notion made its way into the general discourse. It's a superstition.You don't want to tempt the fates, eh?

Oh well. I'll confess it always makes me nervous when I hear someone lie about their mother dying or some other trajedy as an excuse to get out of something they don't want to do for the same reason.

He's talking, I think, about Huckabee, who would be a strong candidate for the Right if the name of the game wasn't about bucks and big names. Huckabee, who I am in no way endorsing, just came along at an inopportune moment: Despite the Media's fallicious drumbeat about an "open" election and an "open" field for the first time in years, the two parties have largely put up establishment candidates who have either run before or have been around the game, in one fashion for another. Huckabee can't compete with that.

You got it in one guess, Counte, so I'm obliged to cop on it. If everyone whose only reason for not voting for Huckabee is that they don't think he will win the nomination would actually vote for him, he would win. Although it did occur to me that his appeal to the social right wing—e.g. the evangelicals—might in fact work against him with the swing in a way not often seen. I haven't looked it up yet, but the fact that he's an ordained minister might work against him more than I've yet considered.



Despite the Media's fallicious drumbeat about an "open" election and an "open" field for the first time in years, the two parties have largely put up establishment candidates who have either run before or have been around the game, in one fashion for another.

You know, I understand the Democratic Party's ability to blow what should be a sure thing right out their asses. It's part of what they do. I'm all for a female or minority president, but Hillary's a Clinton, Barack is letting his inexperience show too much, and Richardson is playing the rock-star "influential candidate" role. Any one of them will get my support for the general election (like Richardson even has a chance), but the rush to Hillary and Barack is worrisome.

One thing that will be interesting to see is how the Democratic voters respond to Republican outcomes. If Huckabee or Paul somehow take New Hampshire, the Democrats might drop Hillary and Barack for Edwards. The front-runners are secure, I think, against a Thompson or Giuliani, but if the GOP doesn't go as expected, Democratic voters might decide to go with the charismatic white Southern Christian male. Heaven knows they won't reach all the way over to Biden.

But the Republicans? They're either panicking or else playing the best ruse in the history of American politics. It will be interesting to see what the primaries bring.

I don't know all that much about Huckabee, but he definitely lost me what I was sent a transcript of him on Bill O'Reilly. Apparently, he talked about Adam and Eve and the World being created in six days and several other literal interpretations of the Bible that he believes wholeheartedly.

I will vote for Clinton and nothing will change thatI didn't know you were a US Citizen?

Apparently, he talked about Adam and Eve and the World being created in six days and several other literal interpretations of the Bible that he believes wholeheartedly

He has attended, in the past, the "Reclaiming America for Christ" conference sponsored by evangelist D. James Kennedy. This is sort of scary in and of itself. Last month I posted a transcript (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1586886&postcount=283) of part of Michelle Goldberg's book tour appearance in Seattle. She made some pretty ferocious claims about this conference and the people who attend. To the other, Huckabee seems to be burning his own candle in too many places.

My fear of Huckabee as a candidate is that he could mobilize the evangelical base (he's an ordained SBC minister), shows tremendous charisma, and can appeal at least superficially to swing voters. After all, he has a rock band, and has pardoned Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones. To the other, I have until these last couple days overlooked the fact his role as a minister might damage his appeal to the swing. It's hard to measure, but I would have thought the swing would have grown tired of God telling the President who to invade by 2004, and I was wrong.

A few links I've pulled up:


• Wait Wait ... Don't Tell Me, Sept. 8-14, 2007 (http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=35&prgDate=09-08-2007&view=storyview) — Notable portion: Segment featuring Mike Huckabee via telephone; a charismatic softball performance via telephone. Audio stream, 11:03.

• Huckabee: God wants us to fight global warming (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/11/19/huckabee/)" — A disingenuously-titled Salon.com interview with Amanda Griscom Little. Notable portion: on page two, Huckabee tells a story about a time that his outdoor adventures "almost got [him] killed"; file under P for, well, prominent sexist denunciation.

• "Mike Huckabee: A campaign of starts and stops (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/10/mike_huckabee_a_campaign_of_st.html)" — Chris Cillizza at The Fix (Washington Post) examines the failure of the Huckabee campaign to capitalize on opportunities. Notable segment: "If all the people who I talk to who say 'I'd be for Huckabee if I thought he could win' would actually be for him, he could win Iowa," said Ed Failor Jr., a prominent Iowa Republican activist ....

• FOX News Sunday (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312181,00.html) — Recent interview with FOX News host Chris Wallace. Notable segment: Mike Huckabee's immigration plan, apparently, is to just start shooting people. (See below.)

That bit about shooting people comes from a segment of Huckabee's first Iowa television ad, featuring Chuck Norris. From his FOX News interview linked above:


WALLACE: Another big difference is that as of mid-October, Romney had run commercials 5,000 times in Iowa, and you had not run a single commercial there or anywhere else.

But as a big difference, you have now made your first T.V. commercial. You, in fact, even have a celebrity endorsement. And we are now going to have the world premiere of your first T.V. commercial of this presidential campaign. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUCKABEE: My plan is secure the border. Two words. Chuck Norris.

CHUCK NORRIS, ACTOR: Mike Huckabee is a lifelong hunter who'll protect our Second Amendment rights.

HUCKABEE: Chuck Norris doesn't endorse. He tells America how it's going to be. I'm Mike Huckabee and I approved this message. So did Chuck.

NORRIS: Chuck Norris-approved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Well, it's pretty clever, Governor. But what do you think, in a practical sense, it actually does for you in terms of convincing votes in Iowa?

HUCKABEE: Oh, it probably doesn't convince anybody. The spots we'll run next week will start doing that. But what it does do is exactly what it's doing this morning, getting a lot of attention, driving people to our website, giving them an opportunity to find out who is this guy that would come out with Chuck Norris in a commercial.

So what we want to do is to, first of all, show that running for president is serious business but that a person ought to have a little fun doing it. And so we're going to have some fun. We've had fun throughout this campaign. We plan to continue doing that.

But we also want to let people kind of find out who I am and what I'm about. This commercial, we think, will drive a lot of new folks to our website who will then do some serious research about the issues.

(FOX News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312181,00.html))

It should be noted that the FOX transcript of the ad isn't exactly fair, though the border security and Second Amendment bits do come back to back and stick out like that. The spot can be viewed at YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8). And then, in a most recent development that I found on my way to the YouTube ad is a headline I just have a hard time with. No, no, it's not offensive or anything. But my first reaction was "No f@ckin' way!" So check it out:


• Political Intelligence: Huckabee adds Ric Flair to fold (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/11/huckabee_adds_r.html) — Notable segment: What? It's Ric Flair making a presidential endorsement ....

I'm not sure what this signifies for American politics.

I'd like to say that facing this fear has made me feel better about Huckabee, that I'm more confident in the notion that he can't win. But the most prominent weakness about my outlook—my cynicism about the American audience—reminds that endorsements from Chuck Norris and Ric Flair might actually play in certain parts of the country.

I'd like to say that facing this fear has made me feel better about Huckabee, that I'm more confident in the notion that he can't win. But the most prominent weakness about my outlook—my cynicism about the American audience—reminds that endorsements from Chuck Norris and Ric Flair might actually play in certain parts of the country.
I see him as a likely VP nominee. To beef up the conservative credentials of, say, Guiliani.

It's possible. But is Huckabee ... um ... enough of a Dick (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1619285&postcount=37)° to impress Giuliani?
____________________

Notes:

° Dick - Cheney, that is. Click the link for Giuliani's idea of a VP nomination.

Your nightmare scenario may be taking shape...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2007/11/20/ST2007112002497.html?hpid=topnews