The Wall Street Journal has a theory that Iran may be planning a nuclear attack on Israel August 22. Ahmadinejad says he'll give his "final answer" regarding nuclear weapons on August 22. Why August 22?

This year, Aug. 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the 27th day of the month of Rajab of the year 1427. This, by tradition, is the night when many Muslims commemorate the night flight of the prophet Muhammad on the winged horse Buraq, first to "the farthest mosque," usually identified with Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back (c.f., Koran XVII.1). This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary of the world.
Wouldn't Iran be deterred by the devastating counter attack Israel would surely mount? Or by the fact that any attack on Israel would also kill many non-Israelis? A quote from the Ayatollah Khomeini found in Iranian schoolbooks might shed some light on their mindset:

we will stand against their whole world and will not cease until the annihilation of all them. Either we all become free, or we will go to the greater freedom which is martyrdom. Either we shake one another's hands in joy at the victory of Islam in the world, or all of us will turn to eternal life and martyrdom. In both cases, victory and success are ours."
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008768
Who knows if this theory is correct. We'll all know soon enough. But the article makes clear that Iran can not be trusted with nukes so long as it is ruled by apocalyptic maniacs.

I'm not certain that any country with delusions of grandeur can be trusted with a nuclear weapon, least of all those with the inclination to use it.

no country should have nuclear weapons at all. nuclear weapons are non-discriminatory explosives with not only a firepower too large to justify use against anything but a civilian population, but radiation that harms the people and the environmen for generations to come.

I'll microwave some popcorn. Death popcorn.

no country should have nuclear weapons at all. nuclear weapons are non-discriminatory explosives with not only a firepower too large to justify use against anything but a civilian population,
yes




but radiation that harms the people and the environmen for generations to come.
no

I'll microwave some popcorn. Death popcorn.
Now that is quotable.

Also, the only use I see for Nukular weapons is asteroid defense.

I'm not sure Iran would leap into MAD like that.


Also, the only use I see for Nukular weapons is asteroid defense.
I thought most asteroids were too big for our current weapons; and even with a bigger weapon you'd need to get them before they got close enough to earth for the explosion to do damage.

What's in it for Iran?

Why do people make dumb ass comments like this?

Iran is a responsible state. They ain't going to nuke anyone.

haha nice...untrue, but nice.

Why do people make dumb ass comments like this?

Iran is a responsible state. They ain't going to nuke anyone.
I agree. But imagine if the zionists nuke one of their own cities and blame Iran. They could 'retaliate' with glee. The Chosen Ones operate as terrorists, I can't put it past them.

I agree. But imagine if the zionists nuke one of their own cities and blame Iran. They could 'retaliate' with glee. The Chosen Ones operate as terrorists, I can't put it past them.
please dont lump all jews in with israel.
thank you.

please dont lump all jews in with israel.
thank you.
When the same is done about muslims and Arabs I'll comply.

or, you could make the attempt at not offending me.

or, you could make the attempt at not offending me.
Are you jewish? If so it's not personal. I hate all religions. It's just right now the jewish religion is making it very easy to despise them and the christians do the same. I happen to love Seinfeld.

yes, im jewish.
it isnt the religion that is killing innocent people, it is the things that are being done in it's name.

yes, im jewish.
it isnt the religion that is killing innocent people, it is the things that are being done in it's name.
I do apologize. I NEVER was anti-semetic sounding when I was active in the Party. EVER! But years of general inactivity in politics, simmering rage at the course my country has taken and the rightwing protagonists have turned me into a raving loony at times. I condemn orthodox judaism and the zionist movement and the existence of Israel. Jewish people in general are not the guilty party. My god I'm turning into a leftwing troll! :(

:) thanks bro.

i feel pretty much exactly the same as you do. maybe im a little more compassionate about it, but the sentiment is the same, i have the feeling.

Reading what Genji and TDI said made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Reading what Genji and TDI said made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Even Genji's have a nice side.

"Who knows if this theory is correct."

Theory?? you dare to call it a theory? most theories have at least some evidence behind them.

Are you jewish? If so it's not personal. I hate all religions. It's just right now the jewish religion is making it very easy to despise them and the christians do the same. I happen to love Seinfeld.
Don’t believe a word he tells you , he told me originally he was a fundamentalist Christian , and further on in time he informed me he was a Satanist . Later he told me he was Jewish during a debate so accordingly he knew what he was talking about . Later he told me his family was of Turkish origin , when I challenged him about this , seeing your Mother must be Jewish to be Jewish , he told me he converted to Judaism . Then last week on a post I read where he wrote his Grandparents were Russian and were in the siege of Leningrad . He also told me that I had no idea about America as he has lived in almost all the states of America , and even lived in Black Ghetto . Among his other accomplishments is his claim that after a few months of learning chess he became a state chess champion and then his claim to me he learnt Arabic by reading the Koran . If bullshit were music this guy would be a symphony .

Don’t believe a word he tells you , he told me originally he was a fundamentalist Christian , and further on in time he informed me he was a Satanist . Later he told me he was Jewish during a debate so accordingly he knew what he was talking about . Later he told me his family was of Turkish origin , when I challenged him about this , seeing your Mother must be Jewish to be Jewish , he told me he converted to Judaism . Then last week on a post I read where he wrote his Grandparents were Russian and were in the siege of Leningrad . He also told me that I had no idea about America as he has lived in almost all the states of America , and even lived in Black Ghetto . Among his other accomplishments is his claim that after a few months of learning chess he became a state chess champion and then his claim to me he learnt Arabic by reading the Koran . If bullshit were music this guy would be a symphony .
:eek: Wow. Interesting. Maybe I'm gullible when it comes to Belgians. :confused:

It seems to be World opinion that Iran is working on nuclear weapons- this is the first I have heard that they actually have one. Maybe N.Korea gave them one.

It seems to be World opinion that Iran is working on nuclear weapons- this is the first I have heard that they actually have one. Maybe N.Korea gave them one.
Iran doesn't have nukes. They need a decade or so, then they will have a means to stop US/zionist invasion. Non-nuke countries get bombed and destroyed. No wonder Iran wants nukes. Just because the US named NK and Iran as Official Enemies of freeeeedom :rolleyes: doesn't mean they are buddies. Two totally different worlds.

I'm not certain that any country with delusions of grandeur can be trusted with a nuclear weapon, least of all those with the inclination to use it.

Too bad they have to ruin it for the rest of us.

Genji


Wow. Interesting. Maybe I'm gullible when it comes to Belgians.

He also claim's to be a expatriate American living in Belgium.

Genji



He also claim's to be a expatriate American living in Belgium.
And here I was honest about being a gay janitor and all when I could have said I was Harry Connick Jr! :mad:

no country should have nuclear weapons at all. nuclear weapons are non-discriminatory explosives with not only a firepower too large to justify use against anything but a civilian population, but radiation that harms the people and the environmen for generations to come.

Without nuclear weapons there would have been at least one more world war by now.

Nuclear weapons have saved hundreds of millions of lives.

Without nuclear weapons there would have been at least one more world war by now.

Nuclear weapons have saved hundreds of millions of lives.
They'll be taking hundreds of millions soon enough.

And here I was honest about being a gay janitor and all when I could have said I was Harry Connick Jr! :mad:

I thought you denied being a gay janitor to Woody. Or is this a joke?

Either way, how charming...

I thought you denied being a gay janitor to Woody. Or is this a joke?

Either way, how charming...
I never denied it. And I know I'm charming.

I never denied it. And I know I'm charming.

But are you more charming than me?

But are you more charming than me?
Hmm. I doubt it with an Italian name like that. But I'm CLOSE!

Don’t believe a word he tells you , he told me originally he was a fundamentalist Christian , and further on in time he informed me he was a Satanist . Later he told me he was Jewish during a debate so accordingly he knew what he was talking about . Later he told me his family was of Turkish origin , when I challenged him about this , seeing your Mother must be Jewish to be Jewish , he told me he converted to Judaism . Then last week on a post I read where he wrote his Grandparents were Russian and were in the siege of Leningrad . He also told me that I had no idea about America as he has lived in almost all the states of America , and even lived in Black Ghetto . Among his other accomplishments is his claim that after a few months of learning chess he became a state chess champion and then his claim to me he learnt Arabic by reading the Koran . If bullshit were music this guy would be a symphony .
my in-laws are russian and ukrainian, you dolt. i have lived in 46 of the 50 states in the U.S. . i didnt win the chess tournament after a few months, i DID learn to read arabic by reading the koran. i also read, speak, and write: biblical hebrew, russian, french, nederlands, spanish, and latin.

as for my religious history, i dont care what you say. i know the truth.

i am half turkish, you dont have to have a jewish mother to convert to judaism. i was raised by my mother's family, and subsequently was a southern baptist.

just because you have no aspirations in life, this doesnt mean that everyone is an angry factory worker typing madly away on a computer.

grow up, child. you give australians a bad name.

if you want to continue this line of discussion, by all means...proceed. but in the end, you are going to look like a fool.

or is it that you just want my sweet ass?

Genji



He also claim's to be a expatriate American living in Belgium.
i am.

as for that matter...who is harrassing who? i just thought you would like to know that you punched holes in your own accusations, foley..

and as for accomplishments..who is it that claimed to be a professional footballer here?

haha. im sure....but you see..thats not the point. the point is that you try to divert attention when you feel like the forum is moving in a direction you dont like.
go back to your factory, where im sure you have alot of intellectual credit. we arent factory workers here, so it must really upset you how you dont impress us with blustering.

I agree. But imagine if the zionists nuke one of their own cities and blame Iran. They could 'retaliate' with glee. The Chosen Ones operate as terrorists, I can't put it past them.
:bugeye:
jezus, could you please commit suicide and remove yourself from the genepool?
i cannot bear so much stupidity :m:

is this a joke. Iran would never use a nuke unless provoked. But the problem is that it would destroy the balance of power and america and israels infuence and potential power

i didnt understand your last sentence.

oh i forgot, remember when they thouhgt that Iraq was capable of attacking britain with nukes in 45 minutes.

Iran doesn't have nukes. They need a decade or so, then they will have a means to stop US/zionist invasion. Non-nuke countries get bombed and destroyed. No wonder Iran wants nukes. Just because the US named NK and Iran as Official Enemies of freeeeedom doesn't mean they are buddies. Two totally different worlds.

Well at least you agree that Iran wants Nukes :D

Im not saying that NK and Iran are "buddies' but they do have a history of Arms dealing in regards to Missle technology.

but they do have a history of Arms dealing in regards to Missle technology.

It's a Free market...apparently...(not).

:) thanks bro.

i feel pretty much exactly the same as you do. maybe im a little more compassionate about it, but the sentiment is the same, i have the feeling.
you guys are so sweet

Without nuclear weapons there would have been at least one more world war by now.

Nuclear weapons have saved hundreds of millions of lives.
EXactly GF, i totally agree with this.

Pakistan do your duty and give iran some nukes and the technology to build furtehr nukes to rival israels arsenal

Anyone note the date the recently foiled terrorist attack on airlines was scheduled to occur? August 22.

madanthonywayne:


we will stand against their whole world and will not cease until the annihilation of all them. Either we all become free, or we will go to the greater freedom which is martyrdom. Either we shake one another's hands in joy at the victory of Islam in the world, or all of us will turn to eternal life and martyrdom. In both cases, victory and success are ours.

Madanthonywayne, this is some crazy shit, I hope that everyone in the middle east isn't being brainwashed by this sort of garbage. I hope that no radicals read this thread either, it may give them some retarded ideas to carry out thier "world domination or destruction" plan.

I think God hates organized religion which causes diversity amongst all these stupid humans who all think they are in the "right," but in reality they are just stupid and have fallen to organized religion.

Nukes are an over 50 year old weapon. If Iran has nukes, it does not mean they'd be allowed to use it. We have weapons x10000 more precise and deadly than nukes. Nukes are actually safe compared to the weapons of 2006.

If Iran nuked Isreal, Iran would not just be nuked, but every secret nano tech or biological weapon woudl be unleashed on them. Honestly, I know Iran is not stupid enough to nuke Isreal, because that would literally be the end of the world. If Iran is really that crazy, well then that explains the US posture towards Iran. Honestly, I don't think nukes would be used by Iran unless Isreal used nukes. I think Iran is not crazy.

The theory is they need to create chaos to allow the hidden Iman to reveal himself. If they get nuked, all the better, it's virgins for everybody!

Anyway, we'll find out soon enough.

Thats the whole problem- you are dealing with a bunch of religous nuts who beleive that they must start the end of the world...

Thats the whole problem- you are dealing with a bunch of religous nuts who beleive that they must start the end of the world...


Hmmm...reminds me of a certain "nut" in the whitehouse....

Tomorrow, August the 22nd, draws near!

- N

Let's hope the nukes go off course and hit cool skill in the face.

Look you guys, Irans president said himself that he doesn't want to nuke anyone and that they need the electricity so they can resist Big Brother Oil. He also said that Iran has tens of thousands of suicide bombers who are content with peace, but should America or any other nation mess with Iran, then you may find yourself in an uncontrollable war. Here you guys, watch this for yourself to see what this man says, he speaks peace. (http://news.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/08/15/60-minutes-iranian-president-mahmoud-ahmadinejad-video/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fthrowawayyourtv.com%2F2006%2F08% 2F60-minutes-iranian-president-mahmoud.html&frame=true) Its a 60 Minutes interview with the president of Iran.

Its Aug 22nd .. I'm waiting....

Let's hope the nukes go off course and hit cool skill in the face.Let us hope for the destruction of Jerusalem.

Its Aug 22nd .. I'm waiting....
You're not the only one.

Is Tomorrow Doomsday?
U.S. law enforcement are not ignoring the possible significance of tomorrow's date, August 22, a date that marks an important historic event on the Islamic calendar.

Internet websites have been full of speculation that it could be a target date for terrorists in commemoration of the return of the 12th imam, a supposed day of reckoning for Shiites.

August 22 was rumored by intelligence experts to be a possible date that the London plotters would blow-up passenger planes headed towards the United States, though it is not known if the suspects were Shiite extremists.

This year, August 22 marks the holy day on the Islamic calendar that is the day of reckoning for Shiites. Some Shiite sects believe that August 22 could correspond to the end of the world.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/08/is_tomorrow_doo.html

It's still the 21st in the US........
The nice thing is that this is one thread that will come to a definitive conclusion.

i live in a neighborhood populated by arabs and iranians....im watching 4 of them fistfight out of my bedroom window.

i seriously hope that is the only conflict i hear of today.

It might be convenient for the US to nuke Iran from Iraq. Then Iran might nuke Iraq back thereby evaporating the mess the US made there, and the US could blame the failure of "operantion Iraqi freedom" on Iran.

Except, the last thing I read seemed to indicate that it would take Iran years to refine Uranium to weapons grade.

It might be convenient for the US to nuke Iran from Iraq. Then Iran might nuke Iraq back thereby evaporating the mess the US made there, and the US could blame the failure of "operantion Iraqi freedom" on Iran.

Except, the last thing I read seemed to indicate that it would take Iran years to refine Uranium to weapons grade.

Maybe the US could sell them one.

....and then invade them for posessing WMDs.

....and then invade them for posessing WMDs.
yep.

well, the day is half over, and almost fully over in the middle east.

no nukes yet.

stick that in your right wing pipes, and suck on it.

Maybe the nukes went off and destroyed all telecomunications. Thats why we haven't heard about it yet. And we won't, until someone tries to go on holiday to Tel Aviv and find its not there and the sand is glowing.

If you read "The Protocols of the Elders of Mecca", it gives the exact date of the end of the world there. Very interesting. *nod nod*

Without nuclear weapons there would have been at least one more world war by now.

Nuclear weapons have saved hundreds of millions of lives.

Quoted for truth.

Ironically during the Korean war the superpowers discovered that they could still have war with each other without nuclear retaliation.

Nuclear weapons only prevented wars till war was reinvented.

By fighting wars by proxy? Yeah, between non-nuclear powers.

Imagine if everyone had nukes....how could they do that then?

Has there ever been a war between two nuke-capable countries? I can't think of anything closer than the recent standoff between India and Pakistan, and Nukes probably kept that from going anywhere.

It seems likely to me that the US and the USSR would have had direct hostilities after WWII were it not for nukes. Instead, we had to have wars in countries being politically influenced by Russia (Truman doctrine). I think Stalin was itching to do so much more, and was not friendly towards the US or Britain even during our "alliance", but was kept at bay with the threat of anhiliation.

Here's the club:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0811/csmimg/p11a.gif

South Africa reportedly developed nuclear weapons and tested one clandestinely (circa 1970s) but voluntarily gave up that capability.

Japan has possession of lots of fissile material which could be made into a bomb on a moment's notice, but chooses instead to use it to make nuclear fuel rods as per their reprocessing agreement with France (in which they process 'spent' U-235 enriched fuel rods, extract the Plutonium, and use that to make new fuel rods, etc.). A few years ago, sloppy procedures at the Japanese Plutonium processing plant led to the third fatal uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction event in the world. The first two were in Japan in 1945, at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The third in Japan killed two technicians due to prompt neutron exposure, when their mixing vat developed a critical mass configuration and initiated an uncontrolled chain reaction (nuclear bomb). Because it was static, and not kinetic (i.e. implosion, or bullet projectile type bombs), it only volatilized the material and expanded back out of the critical mass configuration so rapidly, that only a small explosion occurred, but creating lots of prompt neutrons, leading to the slow and painful death weeks later of those two technicians.

Maybe the US could sell them one.

....and then invade them for posessing WMDs.

Haha, nice ones!

:D

- N

By fighting wars by proxy? Yeah, between non-nuclear powers.
Well, technically during the korean war american troops were directly figthing chinese troops. If I remember correctly.




Imagine if everyone had nukes....how could they do that then?

They would just do it. Like they did before? You just need a unspoken agreement. Till someone brakes the agreement of course, but you can never know if someone will. Political leadership is quite willing to take risks with other people's lives. As we all know.

And if everybody had nuclear weapons the probability that one is used might increase. I don't know if anyone ever researched this topic statistically. It would be interesting.

How many countries have to have nuclear weapons before it becomes inevitable that a nuke is used?

Would be a bloody nice thesis.

If everyone had ICBMs and what's known as "second strike capability" no one would be stupid enough to use a nuclear weapon because their opponent would retaliate. Therefore, any major war would just be suicide, and so there would be no more (major) war. This phenomenon amongst nuclear powers is known as "limited war in the nuclear age" and has prevented at least one world war so far.

That's why I say "give everyone nukes"

You could also argue that everyone having ICBMs and second strike capability would simply neutralise nukes entirely and this would lead to world wars happening again, though.

But isn't that exactly what Islamofascist want and do?, suicide for the glory of Allah?

South Africa reportedly developed nuclear weapons and tested one clandestinely (circa 1970s) but voluntarily gave up that capability.

Japan has possession of lots of fissile material which could be made into a bomb on a moment's notice, but chooses instead to use it to make nuclear fuel rods as per their reprocessing agreement with France (in which they process 'spent' U-235 enriched fuel rods, extract the Plutonium, and use that to make new fuel rods, etc.). A few years ago, sloppy procedures at the Japanese Plutonium processing plant led to the third fatal uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction event in the world. The first two were in Japan in 1945, at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The third in Japan killed two technicians due to prompt neutron exposure, when their mixing vat developed a critical mass configuration and initiated an uncontrolled chain reaction (nuclear bomb). Because it was static, and not kinetic (i.e. implosion, or bullet projectile type bombs), it only volatilized the material and expanded back out of the critical mass configuration so rapidly, that only a small explosion occurred, but creating lots of prompt neutrons, leading to the slow and painful death weeks later of those two technicians.


Hi water

i hope you are good.

thank you for this insight

But isn't that exactly what Islamofascist want and do?, suicide for the glory of Allah?

No, that's what bush supporters say to dehumanise muslims. I seriously doubt that's what an entire country and its leadership (who are usually living a luxurious lifestyle they would be reluctant to abandon) wants. That view is just propaganda to make them seem inhuman and relentless. While there are suicidal lunatics in islam, it's not every single one of them like bush wants to make out.

But isn't that exactly what Islamofascist want and do?, suicide for the glory of Allah?

I don't think they want to die, it is mostly about achieving a political end.

But suicide bombing is far more effective than a lot of other approaches available to a small group with limited military resources, often harder to stop.