[i'm not sure if i'm putting this thread in the right forum slot,but i figured socio-ethics,etc fit best.]

im doing a 10 page report in english,and the research is ongoing atm. id like to get all of your opinions about it,and please,PLEASE...post a link to how you justify that opinion. i would love to see links to sources like ELF/ALF/EF!/etc with ppl from those organizations explaining their actions. maybe them having a discussion explaining their views to a critic. any links would be greatly appreciated,and for the record,no im not just being lazy. i have been looking up this subject for the past few days,and have a few books checked out that ive been looking through. so yeah,the form of ur posts plz put like this:
------

opinions in red


and then links and facts in blue

with more opinion/facts going on in succession...

thanks a bunch all, ill check back tomorrow

Personally, these sorts of people scare the crap out of me. They destroy livelihoods, hurt people, and inspire fear... and usally what they do doesn't help their cause one bit.

If you steal and release a thousand captive stoats in the wild somewhere, 99% will go nuts and starve to death. Vandalizing a bunch of SUVs is not going to make people drive cleaner vehicles. GM crops are not going to eat your children. Etc.

Even if their stunts actually worked, they are wrong just like abortion clinic bombings are wrong.

These people are despicable, digging up the graves of animal research scientists family members, vandalising their houses and cars, terrifying their children and partners. They should be treated no different than "ordinary" terrorists like suicide bombers ie shot dead as they perpetrate their foul deeds

you see, if we are talking about animal liberationists........i dont agree with violence against the prson, no. but i also understand their utter frustration and passion. for you see some of these people have tried everything. trying to gp thru all the right channels etc. , only to find that te sysem is immoveable.....and manwhile animals are being treated terribly. imagine if you had a pet being treated to te horrors these pople do. would you NOT want to liberate it? just curious. i am well aware of the damage just releasing a bunch of animals into the land. they did it near us, relasing minks, and these minks go after ducks etc. so it caused problems for te balane. but what....leave the minks to be tortured...?
who has created the fukin problem in te first place. we are talkin a mindset which has no respect for animals feelings, and right to life, whatsoever.

Asa for GM protests. i completely agree with this. GMis complete eco-piracy. it is these power elites wit their lacky whitecoats trying to patent Nature. tis is sam mind set as all the oter zombified nasties they are doing---to animals, starting illegal wars, poisoning te planet with depleted uranium....!

you should all b focussing on THAT. NOt castigating people who are TRYING to counteract the utterly defvastating effectsfor other species, planet, generations to come etc etc. tis is totally serious shit. the syste is made meticulously to keep tings going on same and worse. so all theis stuff about democratic process is rubbish. look at the war on Iraq. totally illegal right?

i am NOT for fighting evil with evil, and doing bloody war. but certain forms of radical protest are needed against blind conformity

it'd HELP if more pople woke up to what's going on, seriously.

I think their hearts are in the right place, but their methods are...unsound. Political activism would be more effective. Besides, they only have to wait for oil prices to skyrocket, and their dreams of alternative energy might come true.

Think about all the pollution given off by burning cars, which insurance will replace, thereby leading to more cars than there would have otherwise been.

This is a very interesting question. What a fun topic for a research paper. Of course, the answer depends quite strongly on what you mean by "justified".

If you mean, "Is the ecoterrorist philosophy or belief-system rational?" then you may want to look at the Wikipedia article on Justification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification). If this is your intention then you would want to discuss the rationality of the fundamental beleifs of Environmentalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmentalism) as well as the rationales behind the violence of Ecoterrorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecoterrorism).

If you mean, "Is an ecoterrorist legally liable for the damages they cause?" then you may want to look at Excuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excuse ) which links to the most likely legal defenses of Defense of Others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_%28theory%29) and Necessity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity). Although this is a legal question, it is closely related to the moral question "Is an ecoterrorist morally right in causing the damage that they do?"

-Dale

PS I leave it to you to sort out opinion from fact, both in my post and on the Wikipedia links.

Ecoterrorism is not justified, because it is ineffective and impractical.

You're just not doing it enough.

Two wrongs won't make one right. Just because someone takes care his pet, I wouldn't say the pet is free from "torture." Captivity is a form of "torture" if you really believe that pets have feelings.

Two wrongs won't make one right. Just because someone takes care his pet, I wouldn't say the pet is free from "torture." Captivity is a form of "torture" if you really believe that pets have feelings.
oh pleaeeese. do me a favour. dont try and compare the horrors that can happen to an animal in animal vivisection with their experience as pet..!!!!that is truly obscene. you obviously can't have had any experience seeing the horrendous images of what happens to them when tortured by whitecoated scientists to say such a thing!

Wrong is wrong. Only the severity seperates them apart. I have seen plenty of "horror" lab animal images on anti-animal testing sites. Personally, I am more concerned about the uncontrolled killing of wild animals then breading them for lab testing.

I'm more concerned about overpopulation. No land left because we were busy getting wealthy, rich and poor alike.

Wrong is wrong. Only the severity seperates them apart. I have seen plenty of "horror" lab animal images on anti-animal testing sites. Personally, I am more concerned about the uncontrolled killing of wild animals then breading them for lab testing.

How do you think you would feel if you were an animal being 'tested' on?

I'm all for the Jihad. Let's roll!

Terrorism is always wrong. Be it eco, islamo, or McVeigh.

thank you soooo much DaleSpam, you have been, by FAR,the most helpful poster in this thread =D...thanks again. and it wil end up being a mixture of both, 5pgs factoids, 5pgs my opinions.

You are quite welcome. I have definitely done my share of research papers :)

One suggestion about the writing, be sure not to separate it into 5p of facts and 5p of opinion. A research paper generally requires that you form a definite set of conclusions which are supported by the facts and clear reasoning. So the facts you present need to be in close proximity to the analysis and conclusions/opinions which they support, not several pages away.

Good luck.

-Dale

Terrorism is always wrong. Be it eco, islamo, or McVeigh.

Committing planetary suicide is always wrong. Be it religious, economic or simply mental laziness plus inbred cogitative deficiency.

How do you think you would feel if you were an animal being 'tested' on?
No matter what Disney says duendy, animals are just not that sentient or intelligent. A large part of torture is the expectation of pain, and animals have a diminished ability to remember, and therefore expect.

How do you think you would feel if you were an animal being 'tested' on?
i wonder what you think about a cure for cancer
it has to be tested
what do you suggest we test it on duendy?
it's one thing to bitch and moan, quite another to come up with workable alternatives.

No matter what Disney says duendy, animals are just not that sentient or intelligent. A large part of torture is the expectation of pain, and animals have a diminished ability to remember, and therefore expect.
you have lost your soul dude. and dont patronize me. i am NOT a disney fan. he was a friggin fascist

i wonder what you think about a cure for cancer
it has to be tested
what do you suggest we test it on duendy?
it's one thing to bitch and moan, quite another to come up with workable alternatives.
there ARE alternatives, that's first

and first agin. why theliving hell should animals have to suffer because humans live such poisonous lives, cause cancer

yo see you dont know all about this. you approach this subject from sch a superficla level. you know jack shit about the actal corruption of The Cancer Business do you. you pretend you are tis person 'livin in the REAAA world' yet are as naive as a Walt Disney fan eatin chockies crying at Bambi or whatever

AND noone has answerd adequately enough how you would feel if you were an animal in capyivity being tested on.
have any of you seen a pet upset, freaked out, unhappy? do you only tink tis affects humans?

What the hell is wrong with ecoterrorism anyway? It's not like we have too few people or something.

JIHAD 85

Terrorism is always wrong. Be it eco, islamo, or McVeigh.

But... what is terrorism? Is what Americans are doing in Iraq terrorism?

Technically yes. They practically admit it themselves by confessing to using "Shock and Awe" tactics.

there ARE alternatives, that's first

but what are they?
you never mentioned what the alternatives are

But... what is terrorism? I
this is a question that as yet has no legal definition

but what are they?
you never mentioned what the alternatives are
frst you must research it and not expect itdelivered....truly a not being funny. i dont man i mind givin you souces---of course i dont. i just mean if you want to really see a way out for these animal victims then you have to learn how wrong it is fo youself. here is definately good start:
SPEAK - Stop the Primate Laboratory at Oxford University www.speakcampaign.org.uk
[examples, alternatives]:vitro (test tube) tests using human cells, and tissues and sophisticated computer simulation designed to mimic human metabolism"

checkout the books of Hans Ruesch, Slaughter of the Innocent;
& Naked Empress - or The Great Medical Fraud
"Ruesch has accumulated a vast amount of scientific evidence which shows that vivisectionist experimentation has not only NOT been responsible for any true medical breakthrough, but has actually retarded the process of medicine repeatedly, due to its misleading methodology and results...ff"

sorry, forgot to give you site address:
www.leftgatekeepers.com/articles/sPeterSingerAPaidPuppetOfTheDrugTrustByCampaignAga instFraudMedicalRes...

shit....it is a long address and doesn't finism on google page. my system cant find any page i am on's URL----so if you also have problems dowmloading it i'll try get someone to work it out better

I think Edward Abbey endorsed this kind of activity, author of Desert Solitare. It's about defending wilderness by sabotaging bulldozers and such. In fact, when I was a kid, I put some sand into the gas tank of construction machinery because they were clearing the woods where we liked to play.

Monkeywrenching.

Spidergoat: good for you. If more did the same...

As an adult, I think more could be done organizing to support environmentally friendly candidates. When you start destroying expensive property, then you become a target for law enforcement, not to mention the angry owners of the machines, and you lose potential supporters for your cause.

As an adult, I think more could be done organizing to support environmentally friendly candidates.

The required amount of electorate do not support this, and will not, until they are shown the end -- at which point it will be too late.

Selfishness > common sense with most people

Another thread on this topic on another board (http://www.blackmetal.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=11171.html)

But... what is terrorism? Is what Americans are doing in Iraq terrorism?
Let's not be obtuse.

Suicide bombers blowing up innocents on a bus are terrorists. Gunmen holding schoolchildren hostage and killing them is terrorism. Sept 11 was terrorism. Terrorists target civilians. They target women and children not military targets because they are weak and cowardly.

Civilians will die in any military action and they are just as dead whether they were the primary targets or not. However, there is a world of difference between intentionally targeting women and children and collateral damage. It is the difference between right and wrong, between good and evil.