A simple question again. Why is North Korea "the bad guy"? What have they done that is bad, evil, wrong, whatever? List the bad, evil, wrong, nasty things that North Korea has done. But please list only such things that Britain, USA, or Australia have not also done.

They are the least predictable of the "three axis of evil." For all we care, they could have nukes in their backyards, what are they planning to do with them? What country is threatening to INVADE them? Exaclty my point, no country even wants to invade pathetic NK, they have nothing to gain if invaded.
Kim Jong II runs a brutal totalitarian Communist state that has outlived Stalin's and Mao's. There is no democracy and when power comes to the hands of an priveleged elite few, madness spawns easily. Look at Hitler.
North Korea is isolated, reclusive, and inaccessible. But may I ask, WHY? For what damn reason? They are developing weapons while tens of thousands of their people starve from their seriously weak economy.
President Clinton has TRIED to build two huge power reactors to HELP NK in turn for NK to drop its nuclear ambitions and opening up to international inspection. A fiasco.
NK needs the U.S. more than they care to admit, we have given them countless supplies, offered to build power plants to help their dying economy, but do they listen?

No, the priveleged elite few are stubborn, they will soon run out of options until war is the only option left. Who will they invade? Certainly not China, but South Korea, which has food, a strong economy, and money.

I live in South Korea so I can't wait to get the fvck out of here and go to college. It only takes a nuke to reach Seoul in 4 minutes, no defenses against that, Patriot missles will prove useless to defend Seoul.

Inside NK (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/03/08/eveningnews/main277401.shtml)

Let their own people starve in modern times,
Are communist (deemed bad by america and most of the western world),
Is a heredetry (sp) dictatorship,
Government backed drugs trade, mostly cocain + herion traffiking.

They are the least predictable of the "three axis of evil."

Why should they be predictable to you?



For all we care, they could have nukes in their backyards, what are they planning to do with them?

What are the USA, france, Israel, and others planning to do with their nukes?



What country is threatening to INVADE them?

I believe Bush recently suggested they would consider using nukes in any coming conflict. And Rumsfeld, when discussing Iraq and NK, said the USA was capable of fighting two wars.



Kim Jong II runs a brutal totalitarian Communist state that has outlived Stalin's and Mao's. There is no democracy and when power comes to the hands of an priveleged elite few, madness spawns easily. Look at Hitler.

First, what the hell has Hitler got to do with NK? As for democracy, remember that Bush was NOT voted in by the majority. http://www.lumpen.com/coup2k/



North Korea is isolated, reclusive, and inaccessible. But may I ask, WHY? For what damn reason?

You're wrong. We have a veru open and direct relationship with NK. What you might mean is "The USA and NK have limited relations". However, since Australia has open relations with NK, this points more toward the USA having an isolationist attitude.



They are developing weapons while tens of thousands of their people starve from their seriously weak economy.

So the USA should ease up on its trade/oil sanctions, so NK can afford to generate power without resorting to nuclear reactors.



President Clinton has TRIED to build two huge power reactors to HELP NK in turn for NK to drop its nuclear ambitions and opening up to international inspection. A fiasco.

And now BUsh has interfered, cutting their oil, so they must use nuclear reactors.



NK needs the U.S. more than they care to admit, we have given them countless supplies, offered to build power plants to help their dying economy, but do they listen?

What does NK need from the USA? Food? Yes, they need food.



No, the priveleged elite few are stubborn, they will soon run out of options until war is the only option left. Who will they invade? Certainly not China, but South Korea, which has food, a strong economy, and money.

NK has no intentions of war with SK. NK wants prosperity. They simply refuse to bend over for foreigners to get it.



I live in South Korea so I can't wait to get the fvck out of here and go to college. It only takes a nuke to reach Seoul in 4 minutes, no defenses against that, Patriot missles will prove useless to defend Seoul.

Again, NK does not want war with SK. They have been working toward integration for years.

Let their own people starve in modern times,

1) 20 to 30 million in the USA living in poverty and starving.



Are communist (deemed bad by america and most of the western world),

2) Simply stating "they have this political system" does not make them bad in any way. It is a null point.



Is a heredetry (sp) dictatorship,

3) Again, how does that make NK bad?



Government backed drugs trade, mostly cocain + herion traffiking.
4) Ever heard of Noriega?


Points 1 and 4 can be applied to the USA, and thus are not what I asked for. Points 2 and 3 are not "bad" things.

Adam... half agree with you on this. lived in south korea for 14 months. the north does oppress its people. i don't blame all of their problems on NK solely, however, the South has no reason to trust them. recall the 9+ tunnels dug under to the DMZ by the North. the north has been deceptive, aggressive and uncooperative in its dealings with the south and other countries. they are suspiciously isolationist (not unsuspiciously, which is possible).

all the same, i don't see a need of war with them. i also don't see the need for them to develop nuclear weapons when they need food. (not saying they are or are not trying to). believe it or not, i trust the U.S. government more than the NK one. from me, that's saying a lot. not that i should know, i've never been to NK. who has? now that's a good question....

4) Adam, The US government deals in cocaine and heroin? How have i not heard of this before?
1) In NK 80% of its people are starving, It is known for its people to be eating human flesh because there is simply no food.

You say number 2 + 3 are invalid, however, i was speaking from the US's perspective.
It shows that it is not a democratic system which does equal bad. Even although Bush was elected by the minority, they still have a voting system.

But hey, its your thread so you can dismiss my points if you want.

Originally posted by Adam
Why should they be predictable to you?

Anything unpredictable, something you don't know about, causes fear.


What are the USA, france, Israel, and others planning to do with their nukes?

U.S. isn't desperate, we don't need to invade anyone. When NK becomes desperate they will go mad and they will invade someone and a likely bet is SK.


I believe Bush recently suggested they would consider using nukes in any coming conflict.

Link the source...I don't think he ever explicitly state that. Nuclear War is a very serious matter. I wouldn't advocate him if he stated he would use nukes in any coming conflict.


And Rumsfeld, when discussing Iraq and NK, said the USA was capable of fighting two wars.

We are capable of fighting 3 wars, one with each of the three axis of evil.


First, what the hell has Hitler got to do with NK?

Hitler went mad, he was a great leader...but he was mad. He was a dictator, the same scenario for NK, they have a dictator, anyone say "no, you can't do that" to the dictator can kiss their asses good-bye.


As for democracy, remember that Bush was NOT voted in by the majority. http://www.lumpen.com/coup2k/

Still that has nothing to do with it. I'm saying Bush doesn't call the shot on EVERYTHING, that is why we have the War Powers Act, the right to Protest, etc. We can cancel the president, but you cannot cancel a dictator.


You're wrong. We have a veru open and direct relationship with NK. What you might mean is "The USA and NK have limited relations". However, since Australia has open relations with NK, this points more toward the USA having an isolationist attitude.

Why are they kicking out the UN inspectors?


So the USA should ease up on its trade/oil sanctions, so NK can afford to generate power without resorting to nuclear reactors.

NK doesn't have the capability to use Nuclear Reactors, only to build Nuclear weapons, which is fairly easy for most countries.


And now BUsh has interfered, cutting their oil, so they must use nuclear reactors.

Show me NK actually having a Nuclear reactor that works and is used for the purpose of energy.


What does NK need from the USA? Food? Yes, they need food.

Exaclty. Why do they have such a powerful military? One of the most powerful in the world. Why don't they concentrate on their economy more? Why don't they follow the examples of their SK counterparts?


NK has no intentions of war with SK. NK wants prosperity. They simply refuse to bend over for foreigners to get it.

Sure, if they invade SK in the next twenty years, I wouldn't be surprised. That's just my guess though, my prescient view.


Again, NK does not want war with SK. They have been working toward integration for years.

I wonder why they failed to. SK's new president also wants a unified Korea.

thread belongs to everyone who responds to it (without being a putz, that is.... ) :D :p ;)

Adam is using old tactics, post controversial statements even if he knows it isnt true, just to get the thread going. Hell, i used to do that myself.

Wait, didn't NK already invade SK once? Isn't that what the Korean War was about? Or have I got that wrong?

I am sure that NK just announced that they have a nuclear weapons development program in place. So, it is foolish to argue about whether or not they are developing nuclear weapons. The only question is do they NOW have any nuclear weapons?

As for cutting off their oil -- that sounds like we're embargoing them but my understanding is the the U.S. has been GIVING NK oil since Clinton's 1994 deal with them. The U.S. has, basically, been paying tribute to NK to NOT invade SK. I think we have the right to stop paying tribute.

Personally, if it were me, I would just get U.S. troops out of SK. SK has no strategic importance. Since, apparently many here and in SK think NK won't invade, I'd put that to the test. NK, with nuclear weapons and missiles capable of hitting the U.S. is too powerful for the U.S. to try to stop from any agression against SK.

I can say in the usa "Bush is a moron" without being shot , I cannot say in North Korea that KIM-IL-WHATSHISNAME is a moron, that's bad, but I do agree that our very own slates are not that much cleaner on a lot of other issues.

So let those without sin cast the first stones.....

Koreascope.org: Human Rights in North Korea (http://www.koreascope.org/admin/treatise/file/14_3_2.pdf) (PDF)
Medicins sans Frontieres: The humanitarian situation and refugees in North Korea (http://www.msf.org/countries/page.cfm?articleid=9AC11A91-55C7-4192-BF04DDAB4F25D4F1)
Medicins sans Frontieres: Additional testimonies of North Korean refugees (http://www.msf.org/countries/page.cfm?articleid=E01E709D-AD94-4379-8E287313FA5E96FA)

The leader of the armed forced is: Kim Jong II and the premier is: Kim Il-Sung
I cant find the link but i had been reading on travel information of N.Korea awhile ago and if you said anything against the leader, a good chance you would be shot.

all countries should develop nukes (unless of course they like it in the rear end). you can then at least inflict some meaningful damage on the aggressor

---We are capable of fighting 3 wars, one with each of the three axis of evil.---

three axis eh? can u tell me who they all are? and yeahh, also include the criteria for falling in that category and who decides that?

ppl are losing their minds over NK and how it exercises power over its citizens... ever heard of china? or read about the tiananmen square? yet, the US doesnt give a fuck about the chinese besides the cheap shit that they produce in bulk and ship it over to the US of A....

China isnt as totalarian as N.Korea.
The way america sees it, they give alot but get little in return except from nuclear related aggro.

yeah... i agree its not as totalitarian as NK.. i still dont find that argument compelling enuff to be all gung ho about NK while ignoring other nations who are perpetuating milder versions of the same symptom...

perhaps as in iraq, there might be americans involved in the arms trade with n korea

??

yeah... i agree its not as totalitarian as NK.. i still dont find that argument compelling enuff to be all gung ho about NK while ignoring other nations who are perpetuating milder versions of the same symptom...
No, i dont think they should be attacked by the US either.

4) Adam, The US government deals in cocaine and heroin? How have i not heard of this before?

The USA had an agreement with Noriega. He was allowed to export a certain amount of drugs to the USA in return for the USA having access to his extensive central and south American intelligence networks. Eventually, Noriega got sick of US interference in central and south America, and called a meeting of many leaders from central and south America to discuss how to remove the US intelligence presence. This is when Noriega became an enemy of the US.



1) In NK 80% of its people are starving, It is known for its people to be eating human flesh because there is simply no food.

Perhaps more foreign aid would be in order, yes? And lifting sanctions?



You say number 2 + 3 are invalid, however, i was speaking from the US's perspective.
It shows that it is not a democratic system which does equal bad. Even although Bush was elected by the minority, they still have a voting system.

Well, 2 and 3 would be applicable if you actually had a reason to say why those things are bad rather than just different.

Anything unpredictable, something you don't know about, causes fear.

If you are afraid of water, does that make water "evil"? Your fears of a thing do not make that thing bad.



Link the source...I don't think he ever explicitly state that. Nuclear War is a very serious matter. I wouldn't advocate him if he stated he would use nukes in any coming conflict.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/12/11/bush.weapons.security/index.html



We are capable of fighting 3 wars, one with each of the three axis of evil.

I'll start a thread about this...



Still that has nothing to do with it. I'm saying Bush doesn't call the shot on EVERYTHING, that is why we have the War Powers Act, the right to Protest, etc. We can cancel the president, but you cannot cancel a dictator.

Very true, and a good point. :) However, I would point out that when a nation becomes too uncomfortable for the public, often revolutions and assassinations occur.



Why are they kicking out the UN inspectors?

NK needs power, since the US is restricting their oil imports. To get that power they need to fire up their old nuclear reactors. To do that they need to tell the UN monitors on those recators to get stuffed.



NK doesn't have the capability to use Nuclear Reactors, only to build Nuclear weapons, which is fairly easy for most countries.

Yet they are using nuclear reactors...



Show me NK actually having a Nuclear reactor that works and is used for the purpose of energy.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20021226-71336036.htm
http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rm/2002/12628.htm
http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/3555439.html
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/26/1040511124581.html



Exaclty. Why do they have such a powerful military? One of the most powerful in the world. Why don't they concentrate on their economy more? Why don't they follow the examples of their SK counterparts?

Perhaps because their southern border is covered by a million landmines, Rumsfeld said they can take North Korea, and Bush claims the right to use WMDs against nations he considers "evil".



Sure, if they invade SK in the next twenty years, I wouldn't be surprised. That's just my guess though, my prescient view.

I hope not. I'd rather the two Koreas work toward peaceful integration and one democratic government.

Again, I am interested in things about North Korea which can not be seen in Australia, Britain, USA.

The USA had an agreement with Noriega. He was allowed to export a certain amount of drugs to the USA in return for the USA having access to his extensive central and south American intelligence networks. Eventually, Noriega got sick of US interference in central and south America, and called a meeting of many leaders from central and south America to discuss how to remove the US intelligence presence. This is when Noriega became an enemy of the US.
N.Korea is very more direct in its drug traffiking;
it gets a container, fills it with cocain/heroin, paints on the container sunflower oil (to make it look legitamit) and ships it overseas. Anyhow, i realise there are reasons for the government doing this, lack of money is one of them.

Perhaps more foreign aid would be in order, yes? And lifting sanctions?
Exactly.

At the end of the day, the us government has probally a very good and well thought out profitable reason for naming N.Korea as an axis for evil.

Adam - the U.S. isn't restricting NK's oil imports, they're just no longer GIVING oil to NK -- as they've done for the last 8 years.

Nobody here has said anything about Korea that's bad that isn't true about the US too.

A dictator is a leader who wasn't voted into power by the majority.

So, both the US and NK have dictators.

One major difference is, the dictator of the US is the surpreme commander of the army.

Oh, did you ever know that we can't vote a president out of orfice in the middle of his sperm? If all the citizens (ie all the citizens that aren't gov't employees) hate the Prez and want him out of orfice, how do they shit this to crappen? They have to wait 'till the end of his sperm, when they can vote again. But by then, the Prez might've gotten LA blown up because of some obscure diplomatic crisis that is entirely his fault.

Did you know that NK is actually a democratic nation besides federal gov't? Yes, that's more than the US can say. At the moment, on the federal level it is a Dictatorship, but generally on the local level it is Federalist.

That's why it's called &#C870;&#C120; &#C778;&#BBFC; &#BBFC;&#C8FC; &#ACF5;&#D654;&#AD6D; (joseon inmin minju gonghwagug), instead of &#C870;&#C120; &#C778;&#BBFC; &#ACF5;&#D654;&#AD6D; (joseon inmin gonghwagug), which can be compared to China's &#4e2d;&#534e;&#4eba;&#6c11;ᐳ&#548c;&#56fd; (zhonghua renmin gongheguo), which is exactly the same thing as "joseon inmin gonghwagug" is (except with the "zhonghua" part instead of "joseon", but that is just the geographical difference), but that isn't the name of North Korea! There's a MINJU there because it's a democracy on the local level.

Adam:
1) 20 to 30 million in the USA living in poverty and starving.

Thank you for using those crappy over used statistics. Just to point out, the only starving people that I see wont work or earn their keep. In other words, bums.

Statistics can be used to prove anything, 13% of all people know that.

GB...
A dictator is a leader who wasn't voted into power by the majority.

So, both the US and NK have dictators.

One major difference is, the dictator of the US is the surpreme commander of the army.
.................................................. .................................................. ..
**now, that is rational thought! kinda like comparing apples and oranges!


"Nobody here has said anything about Korea that's bad that isn't true about the US too."

**Wrong!.. isolationism, which the U.S. is Not practicing, but then again that is one of the complaints.. Right? butting in too much?

**N.K has the internet? they are open, Correct?
its citizens can freely come and go like the U.S.?
they have Mcdonalds, and burger king, reporters freely travel the country and report without censorship, like the U.S. right? I mean, compare Freedoms of the people.. Trying to Equalize N.K. in the worlds eyes is impossible, they are leftover from the cold war, The U.S. is not!

Adam:...Again, I am interested in things about North Korea which can not be seen in Australia, Britain, USA.

**well, how about things that can't be seen in North Korea? like the whole country?
**Actually, you've gotten it already.



** a fear of water, makes it a thing to respect because of what it CAN do! like North Korea can be Dangerous to its Neighbors, and Europe, and the U.S. Japan.. Name em.. they have shot missles over Japan.. but I suppose the U.S does that too?

Originally posted by Adam
If you are afraid of water, does that make water "evil"? Your fears of a thing do not make that thing bad.

No Adam, not at all.

Let's concentrate on NK, they starve their own people, What are they doing to help them?

South Korea did not have all those "secret tunnels" running through the DMZ. South Korea's military is nothing compared to NK's but their economy is amazing.


Very true, and a good point. :) However, I would point out that when a nation becomes too uncomfortable for the public, often revolutions and assassinations occur.

At least in a Democracy you have a chance against such occurences.

Dictators will kill anyone and who will stop them? They instill fear into their own people, fear is not a good method to govern a people.

And to worship the dictator almost as a god, is frivolous.


NK needs power, since the US is restricting their oil imports.

In other words, the U.S. isn't giving in to blackmail, we don't need to pay tribute to them if they do not comply with what we say.

Why should they even get pissed?


To get that power they need to fire up their old nuclear reactors. To do that they need to tell the UN monitors on those recators to get stuffed.

We'll see if they lauch a nuke or not. They invaded once, and for what reason? U.S. cannot trust them.


http://www.washtimes.com/world/20021226-71336036.htm
http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rm/2002/12628.htm
http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/3555439.html
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/26/1040511124581.html

Thanks for the link, let's see if they do put them to "productive use."


Perhaps because their southern border is covered by a million landmines, Rumsfeld said they can take North Korea, and Bush claims the right to use WMDs against nations he considers "evil".

Adam, you have been in the military and you should understand. Landmines don't ATTACK. They are primarily used as a defense. Remember, NK got their tanks and MARCHED in and took Seoul in less than 3 hours!

Landmines would slow down such an INVASION.

Where does Bush say that?


I hope not. I'd rather the two Koreas work toward peaceful integration and one democratic government.

I agree with you also. Think about it, which government is better now? SK's obviously. You think NK will drop their government? No way.

They are extreme in absolute power for the dictator.

Originally posted by sycoindian


three axis eh? can u tell me who they all are? and yeahh, also include the criteria for falling in that category and who decides that?

Iran, Iraq, and NK.

Iraq - Saddam Hussein, self explanatory. Hussein has actually used his weapons of mass destruction against his own people, and has attacked neighboring countries. He says he doesn't have weapons of mass destruction :rolleyes: Broke over eight UN Resolutions.

Iran - Remember the Revolutionary Guards that held the hostages at the American Embassy for 444 days? How about supporting terrorism without publicly denying it?

NK - Betrayed a promise to the 1994 Agreed Framework to halt nuclear arms programs. Isolationism, what do they have to hide? Kicking people out who criticize their poor economy and starving people.

One thing they all have in common, THEY CANNOT BE TRUSTED.


ppl are losing their minds over NK and how it exercises power over its citizens... ever heard of china? or read about the tiananmen square? yet, the US doesnt give a fuck about the chinese besides the cheap shit that they produce in bulk and ship it over to the US of A....

You need to open your mind. Can you even QUESTION about the U.S. "possible danger"? Hell no, each three of the axis of evil are possible dangers.

Ask Japan, ask SK...

you open your eyes.

--- ~The_Chosen~ ---

hmmmm.. iraq, iran and NK.. why isn't israel there? it has phenomenal nuclear capabilities plus a strong military.. and it is perpetuating atrocities towards palestinians all the time... you need to open your eyes too...

first of all.. Iraq... the only thing they have done is that they haven't let UN inspectors in the last few years... that doesnt mean that they have weapons.. nothing has been found... It isn't America's responsibility wat a sovereign nation does domestically... and u said it has attacked its neighbourin countries... not since desert storm.. so why all the attention right now? they are slowly building their economy and lifestyle after everything was turned into rubble ten years ago... what they have done is nothing compared to what the US govt has done in the past fifty years... covert or openly... it still counts...

---Iran - Remember the Revolutionary Guards that held the hostages at the American Embassy for 444 days? How about supporting terrorism without publicly denying it?---

so what.. an action of few ppl doesnt constitute an act that puts the entire nation as evil... that's just bullshit...

NK... this has been proven over and over again in other threads too how this issue is just pure bollocks... im sure the americans must have some dirty linen in there that they dont want the n.koreans to wash publicly...

and one more thing... the americans think they have the power to call any nation 'terrorist' or what not on their whims and fancies and economic interests... bully the UN to have sanctions against em... its disgusting... abuse of power in its glory...

Originally posted by sycoindian
--- ~The_Chosen~ ---

hmmmm.. iraq, iran and NK.. why isn't israel there? it has phenomenal nuclear capabilities plus a strong military.. and it is perpetuating atrocities towards palestinians all the time... you need to open your eyes too...

I didn't even talk about Israel. NK outright invaded SK, also whenever someone tries to run across the DMZ from NK they kill them.

What the fuck for?!

To create FEAR, to secure their evil government's power.


first of all.. Iraq... the only thing they have done is that they haven't let UN inspectors in the last few years... that doesnt mean that they have weapons.. nothing has been found... It isn't America's responsibility wat a sovereign nation does domestically... and u said it has attacked its neighbourin countries... not since desert storm.. so why all the attention right now? they are slowly building their economy and lifestyle after everything was turned into rubble ten years ago... what they have done is nothing compared to what the US govt has done in the past fifty years... covert or openly... it still counts...

Uh huh, just as I don't let doctors inspect my body doesn't mean I have any diseases.

Sadam needs to die, period.


so what.. an action of few ppl doesnt constitute an act that puts the entire nation as evil... that's just bullshit...

That nation supports terrorism. They have demonstrated a terrorist act.


NK... this has been proven over and over again in other threads too how this issue is just pure bollocks... im sure the americans must have some dirty linen in there that they dont want the n.koreans to wash publicly...

NK is showing their good side now, but I would never trust that communist government.


and one more thing... the americans think they have the power to call any nation 'terrorist' or what not on their whims and fancies and economic interests... bully the UN to have sanctions against em... its disgusting... abuse of power in its glory...

Abuse of power? NO, we are using our power, without U.S. the UN is trash.

um the fact that they dont have nike, burgerking and mc donalds makes them evil????????

u didnt talk about israel but i am.. how come they're not in that axis of evil... cuz they haven't done anything against the USA? its all about the US... if a country does something against them, they're terrorists... incredible logic...

from your msg it seems u have no compassion for any other nation except yours.... mis placed nationalism and patriotism has always led to disaster... none of your points really constitutes a nation to be called terrorist or evil.. take a global unbiased polll and see which country is voted the most EVIL.... im sure the USA would win hands down... u guys always like to win huh.. well, u won again...

how about that, we won finally, I'll take it! Israel is a Democratic type nation, so, naturally they are the good guys, like us! they also work with the U.S. , not against it. they have Historically defended themselves against all odds and every Arab Nation that opposed them. even ALL at once. no comparison! they are the occupiers because the Arabs wouldn't leave then alone. Palestine is occupied because the foolishly joined in the wars against Israel.. and now their Arab Buddies let them suffer alone, cept when it suits their Fancy to have a cause to terrorize somebody.. ever hear of an Israeli Suicide bomber? and American? no, you won't either! our will to live is stronger by far! Imagine 70 virgins in paradise... thats Fu8ked thinking! North Korea is not open to the 21st century at all!.. Iran is improving conciderable!

um the fact that they dont have nike, burgerking and mc donalds makes them evil????????

Those are corporations, not americans.

Originally posted by sycoindian
u didnt talk about israel but i am.. how come they're not in that axis of evil... cuz they haven't done anything against the USA? its all about the US... if a country does something against them, they're terrorists... incredible logic...

They have demonstrated terrorist acts. They have invaded other countries for no good reason.


from your msg it seems u have no compassion for any other nation except yours.... mis placed nationalism and patriotism has always led to disaster...

I love my country. I also respect other countries such as Britain, Australia, South Korea, etc.


none of your points really constitutes a nation to be called terrorist or evil..

Right. :rolleyes: Sadam huessin isn't evil?


take a global unbiased polll and see which country is voted the most EVIL.... im sure the USA would win hands down... u guys always like to win huh.. well, u won again...

We also are the nation that gives the most, helps the most, and spearheads almost every international organization.

Evil, the US? Sure, you should thank the U.S. for everything it has done for your world, our world.

~The_Chosen~..Quote:

"Evil, the US? Sure, you should thank the U.S. for everything it has done for your world, our world."


Maybe that it!.......Envy? Pride? Anger at the U.S. because it IS so powerful.. Maybe People don't want to be reminded of that? hmm...could be it.

Israel is the only "bad" nation in the world. Damn dirty Jews.

If the USA didn't live under the Star of David, we wouldn't be in this kind of trouble.

NK done bad things. US done bad things. I don't however put them in the same category. I'd say the US has more progress than NK. on the same side, the US abuses that progress in horrible ways, particularly in the name of righteousness.

what's going on here is escalation.

Question: If a dozen nations (particularly the most powerful ones and their allies) have nuclear weapons, doesn't it make sense for other nations to have them as well? There is some logic behind that. Doesn't it also make sense for those countries who already have nukes to try and keep others from having them? There's some logic AND a lot of hypocrisy there as well.

---Question: If a dozen nations (particularly the most powerful ones and their allies) have nuclear weapons, doesn't it make sense for other nations to have them as well? There is some logic behind that. Doesn't it also make sense for those countries who already have nukes to try and keep others from having them? There's some logic AND a lot of hypocrisy there as well---

EXACTLY.. that's what i've been trynna say all this time... thanks for summarizin it tasty..

I'll most certainly agree to that!

They have demonstrated terrorist acts. They have invaded other countries for no good reason.

So have we.

I love my country. I also respect other countries such as Britain, Australia, South Korea, etc.

It really shows when you love your country too much, ie you aren't willing to admit it isn't perfect. Sounds like an abused child...

Right. :rolleyes: Sadam huessin isn't evil?

He isn't any more evil than you or I or anybody else on Sciforums or elsewhere in the world...

We also are the nation that gives the most,

Not per capita. That's what counts. We're really a greedy nation. The reason we give so much is because we have so many more people than the nations that give more per capita. ie if Switzerland had the same amount of people as we did, they'd give more than us.

helps the most,

Oh, yes. :rolleyes:

and spearheads almost every international organization.

Yes, just like we spearheaded the EU, OPEC, the Arab League, Benelux, and almost every other international organization. :rolleyes: I'm sure it helps that we break so many UN resolutions all the time.

Evil, the US? Sure, you should thank the U.S. for everything it has done for your world, our world.

"Yes, I should thank my country for the millions of people it has killed directly in the past century, and the millions more it has killed directly in its whole history. I should also thank it for those that are dying because of it, including little children and their mothers. I should thank it for all those who have suffered, died long, painful deaths, those cultures which have been totally obliterated, plundered, or become moribund because of it, even in this past century. All the treaties broken, nations disappeared, and wars started because of us. I should thank it for trying to fuck other nations over, like a schoolyard bully. Why do you think everybody was at first so bristly about passing that UN resolution on Iraq, but then suddenly everybody says "ok"? Somebody probably made a threat or something. Things like that don't just happen. What about John Walker saying he is guilty, although he previously said he wasn't? What about those tortured by American soldiers in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, and the world round? Should I thank my nation for all of that?"

--Me, right now in this post

Originally posted by Vortexx
I can say in the usa "Bush is a moron" without being shot , I cannot say in North Korea that KIM-IL-WHATSHISNAME is a moron, that's bad,

Yes, but you can't say that next to all the people shouting pro-Bush slogans and waving signs as he walks on the red carpet into some sort of promo dinner without getting arrested, or shoo'd away...

Originally posted by Captain_Crunch
The leader of the armed forced is: Kim Jong II and the premier is: Kim Il-Sung
I cant find the link but i had been reading on travel information of N.Korea awhile ago and if you said anything against the leader, a good chance you would be shot.

The leader of the armed forces is: George W. Bush Jr. and the president is: George W. Bush Jr.

If you say anything against the leader next to the red carpet at a political event, you will be arrested.

**now, that is rational thought! kinda like comparing apples and oranges!

The fact that you couldn't counter it intelligently or say what was wrong with it just goes to show you that you know you're wrong but don't want to believe it.

**Wrong!.. isolationism, which the U.S. is Not practicing, but then again that is one of the complaints.. Right? butting in too much?

The US is practicing isolationism. But what's so wrong with that? I mean, seriously?

**N.K has the internet?

Yes.

Speaking of which, did you know that over 7 million Iraqis, mostly in Baghdad and other major cities, regularly use the Internet?

they are open, Correct?

Yes.

its citizens can freely come and go like the U.S.?

No. Could be just safety precautions. Disease prevention. This doesn't make a nation bad. They might be afraid for the sake of their citizens. If they could freely come and go, many North Korean travellers to the US would be harassed by the gov't and by commoners.

they have Mcdonalds, and burger king,

No, but how does that make a country bad? Iraq even has Burger King. Well, sort of.

reporters freely travel the country

Yes.

and report without censorship, like the U.S. right?

If I remember, the US ranked #16 on the press freedom ranking from Reporters Without Borders. That means that there's censorship.

I mean, compare Freedoms of the people.. Trying to Equalize N.K. in the worlds eyes is impossible, they are leftover from the cold war, The U.S. is not!

I would tell you to shut up, but then that would impede the intelligent conversation that I am attempting to carry with you, but which seems to be impossible because everything is a dead end.

** a fear of water, makes it a thing to respect because of what it CAN do! like North Korea can be Dangerous to its Neighbors, and Europe, and the U.S. Japan.. Name em.. they have shot missles over Japan.. but I suppose the U.S does that too?

The US can be dangerous to virtually any country, anywhere in the world. They have used WMD on Japan... But I suppose North Korea has done something much worse to Japan that killed many more people.

anyway ,north korea is as bad as we think

Originally posted by cactushku
anyway ,north korea is as bad as we think

!!! WTF? I present a bunch of stuff, you don't even attempt to refute it, just tell me I'm wrong and say "north korea is as bad as we think"? WTF kind of conversation is this? I say something, somebody else says "Well, you're wrong because NK is evil", and then I present more evidence, and they say "You're comparing apples and oranges, you're wrong, NK is evil" and I present more evidence, and it goes completely ignored, and to top it all off, somebody makes a post saying "north korea is as bad as we think"!!!

I can't believe you guys! I thought you were better than this! I believed I could still carry on an intelligent discussion with you guys, but no!!! Well, no more mr. nice guy, instead of you wasting my time, I'll be wasting your time. You motherfucking bastards are the stupidest people on the planet and you'd go to hell if it existed!!! :mad:

hey

calm down

im almost cirtan he was being sarcastic

Originally posted by GB-GIL Trans-global
So have we.

So what country have we invaded? And if we did invade without a "good reason" did we try to take them over? Or did we let them establish their own government and leave?


It really shows when you love your country too much,

What "really shows when you love your country too much"? All I did say was "I love my country."


ie you aren't willing to admit it isn't perfect. Sounds like an abused child...

Don't even start assuming with me. Now, you know better than that.

America isn't perfect, no nation is. Perfect doesn't exist.

"Abused child"? Why don't you assume more?


He isn't any more evil than you or I or anybody else on Sciforums or elsewhere in the world...

I feel sorry for your "meaning" of evil. Sadam needs to die, period.


Not per capita. That's what counts. We're really a greedy nation. The reason we give so much is because we have so many more people than the nations that give more per capita. ie if Switzerland had the same amount of people as we did, they'd give more than us.

We are greedy, capitalism works. Every country would be better off if it was like America.

It doesn't matter by "per capita," what matters is our output, how much we do really give.

By your foolish logic, let's say, I buy a small country for $20 million. Then I donate $5 million to whatever international organizations.

That makes my country better than the U.S.? Think realistic. Most organizations would not survive without the U.S., you know this also.

So what matters again? Per capita crap? or the amount?


"Yes, I should thank my country for the millions of people it has killed directly in the past century, and the millions more it has killed directly in its whole history. I should also thank it for those that are dying because of it, including little children and their mothers. I should thank it for all those who have suffered, died long, painful deaths, those cultures which have been totally obliterated, plundered, or become moribund because of it, even in this past century. All the treaties broken, nations disappeared, and wars started because of us. I should thank it for trying to fuck other nations over, like a schoolyard bully. Why do you think everybody was at first so bristly about passing that UN resolution on Iraq, but then suddenly everybody says "ok"? Somebody probably made a threat or something. Things like that don't just happen. What about John Walker saying he is guilty, although he previously said he wasn't? What about those tortured by American soldiers in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, and the world round? Should I thank my nation for all of that?"

--Me, right now in this post


Every country has committed grave atrocities. I am not denying what Americans have done in America's name. Like the Mylai incident in Vietnam, that was a case of "group evil."

Americans did that, not the country America. America doesn't advocate such atrocities.

America doesn't advocate such atrocities
Well what is US Army Command, if not "America"? What about orders given to kill - massacre - civilians in Korea, as were given at No Gun Ri bridge, just one of many attrocities carried out by order of the US military?

So what country have we invaded? And if we did invade without a "good reason" did we try to take them over? Or did we let them establish their own government and leave?

North Korea. Cherokee Nation. Kingdom of Hawai'i.

What "really shows when you love your country too much"? All I did say was "I love my country."

I didn't say anything about you, did I? I just said, it really shows when you love your country too much, not that you DO.

Don't even start assuming with me. Now, you know better than that.

What did I assume? Where? Again, I never said you think America is perfect.

America isn't perfect, no nation is. Perfect doesn't exist.

Did I say it was? Why are you telling me this? Please don't waste my time.

"Abused child"? Why don't you assume more?

You see, there, I didn't assume at all, I said "sounds like".

I feel sorry for your "meaning" of evil. Sadam needs to die, period.

I feel sorry that you actually think there IS a such thing as evil. Bush would say I'm evil because I don't believe in God. You would say Saddam Hussein is evil for whatever reason. I would say that nobody is evil unless they believe they are. If he truly believes he's doing the right thing, then he is. Plus, what has he done that even fits the label "evil"? He hasn't committed genocide, or used nuclear weapons, or whatever.

And you think Saddam needs to die? So what? Who cares what you think? I think you need to die, period. Well, actually, I don't, but that's a different thread.

We are greedy, capitalism works. Every country would be better off if it was like America.

What did I say about capitalism? Yes, it works for some, true. And every country would be better off if IT was like America, but all the other countries would be worse of if it was.

It doesn't matter by "per capita," what matters is our output, how much we do really give.

OMG!!! How dumb do they get? You don't even know what per capita is, I'll bet. And per capita is technically what we really do give. According to you, no single person is America, so "America" doesn't donate anything, only single people do. :rolleyes:

By your foolish logic, let's say, I buy a small country for $20 million. Then I donate $5 million to whatever international organizations.

Erm... whaa? You buy a small country for 20 million? Not gonna happen. But if it did, what are you saying?

That makes my country better than the U.S.?

Of course not. It would just add to the per-capita donations of the US, not of the country you bought.

Think realistic.

I'm not the one who can't use an adverb proper(ly).

Most organizations would not survive without the U.S., you know this also.

Most organizations would jump for joy without the US.

So what matters again? Per capita crap? or the amount?

The amount, the per capita donation. The amount. The crap doesn't matter, nobody cares about the per-capita fecal output of a nation. :bugeye:

Every country has committed grave atrocities.

Oh, yes, like the hundreds of people the Lichtenstein murdered during the Gebardenschrift Revolution of 1899... Or all those people killed by Bhutanese geurillas in the Drukhpa Rebellion in 1930... mhmm... Or all those people that got raped by Singaporean soldiers... or the war that Switzerland started in the 1980s by killing Brukistan's King Hutönç III... Or the nuclear bomb Bahrain dropped on New York in the early 50s... yeah... :rolleyes:

I am not denying what Americans have done in America's name. Like the Mylai incident in Vietnam, that was a case of "group evil."

Ehm... well, theoretically, you could say that about any country. No, this stuff really is American.

Americans did that, not the country America. America doesn't advocate such atrocities.

LOL! Theoretically, no country does. It isn't the landmass itself that makes these things happen... After all, it wasn't really Japan's fault that Pearl Harbour got bombed, just some stupid Japanese guy... :p

I really feel sorry for those with like minds to you, you're giving them a bad name. Oh wait...

Originally posted by ~The_Chosen~

We are greedy, capitalism works.
You're joking, right?

ROFL.

Now now, children: don't make me send you to your rooms...

:p

Adam -- of COURSE Capitalism works, if by "works" is meant the maximum creation of wealth (and I think that is a pretty good criterion for judging whether it works). How could it not? Capitalism is basically putting people in charge of economic decisions and telling them that they will be rewarded (and well rewarded) according to how much wealth they produce.

People like yourself who don't like capitalism don't like it because it doesn't provide for taking into account the overall moral effect of every decision made. That's a whole different issue.

If you say anything against the leader next to the red carpet at a political event, you will be arrested.
I would rather get arrested than shot.

Originally posted by Captain_Crunch
I would rather get arrested than shot.

If you don't cooperate, you will get shot.

But in Korea you will get shot just for insulting the premier.

Posted by GB-GIL Trans-global:

"Yes, I should thank my country for the millions of people it has killed directly in the past century, and the millions more it has killed directly in its whole history.
Excuse me... there were many indirect deaths too. INcluding in South America in the 60s, for example. And of course those people that died in Pearl Harbor, cause they probably knew it would be attacked but didn't defend themselves just to have a reason to go to war and test their new toys (nuclear bombs, if you wonder). Of course, we cannot avoid pondering wheter the US knew the WTC would be attacked or not...


I should also thank it for those that are dying because of it, including little children and their mothers.
And don't forget old people too, who have no money to buy medicine...! :eek:


I should thank it for all those who have suffered, died long, painful deaths, those cultures which have been totally obliterated, plundered, or become moribund because of it, even in this past century.
Don't forget that it is still happening... :bugeye:


All the treaties broken, nations disappeared, and wars started because of us. I should thank it for trying to fuck other nations over, like a schoolyard bully.
Just "trying"...?


Why do you think everybody was at first so bristly about passing that UN resolution on Iraq, but then suddenly everybody says "ok"?
Good question...


Somebody probably made a threat or something. Things like that don't just happen.
But everyone believe it does... I wouldn't be surprised if this country would actually be in complete control of its people mind until the middle of this century (wait... maybe it already happened...?)...


What about John Walker saying he is guilty, although he previously said he wasn't? What about those tortured by American soldiers in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, and the world round? Should I thank my nation for all of that?"
Thank America! The country of freedom and delicious hamburgers...!!... with french fries!!!... and coke!!...:bugeye: :rolleyes:


Just a though...
Isn't true that the only country that ever used atomic bombs was exactly the US?:bugeye:

~The_Chosen~,


Americans did that, not the country America. America doesn't advocate such atrocities.
Think about that...
If the Americans are like that, then that's because they were educated in that way. Or at least influenced to be like that. Why people kill each other at schools? Do you actually hear the news some times and see the atrocities that people make. Really... People are the product of the nation. If people are like that, then it is because the nation is like that in the first place! Really... US with a little angel ring in its head... That's a very interesting sight... :eek:

Originally posted by GB-GIL Trans-global
LOL! Theoretically, no country does. It isn't the landmass itself that makes these things happen... After all, it wasn't really Japan's fault that Pearl Harbour got bombed, just some stupid Japanese guy... :p

Hmm...the government ordered the attack.

Maybe you don't get what I am saying..or are you pretending to be stupid?

The Mylai incident in Vietnam was terrible. The government did not order the soldiers to do that, they did it on their own.

I am saying the U.S. Government (which represents America) does not advocate all of this crap other people are spitting out.

Child porn, etc. the government doesn't support that, do how can the government be evil if there is child porn in its land?

That's the point I am trying to make. NK deliberately starves its own people, the U.S. does not deliberately do this to its own people.

NK can halt their military plans and spend some time on their economy and worry about FOOD. But what do they do? :rolleyes:

That is evil. And Sadam is evil as well, he uses the most deadly weapons against his own people and neigboring countries.

You don't think he is evil? Tell me, what is your "definition" of evil?


I really feel sorry for those with like minds to you, you're giving them a bad name. Oh wait...

Start feeling sorry for yourself first.

---the U.S. does not deliberately do this to its own people. ---

well the U.S. likes to go and fuck up people in every other nation while wearing a nice mask in front of the US citizens...

---Child porn, etc. the government doesn't support that, do how can the government be evil if there is child porn in its land?---

what the hell does that have to do with anything... that's a stupid example... the government is elected by the ppl.. they represent the ppl.. so if ppl watch child porn and child porn = bad, then govt = bad... simple logic... i know i've presupposed in this logic, but so have you in your example...

---The Mylai incident in Vietnam was terrible. The government did not order the soldiers to do that, they did it on their own.---

who were those soldiers representing? they weren't there outta their own volition now were they? those soldiers are a symbol of the government...

---That is evil. And Sadam is evil as well, he uses the most deadly weapons against his own people and neigboring countries.----

only the obvious acts are analyzed... the US govt has done worse covertly...

Hmm...the government ordered the attack.

Yes... but then, in the US, citizens = government. So if citizens advocate child pr0n, the gov't does. If citizens advocate shoving a boulder up your ass, then the gov't does.

Hey... I like that last one...! :D

Maybe you don't get what I am saying..or are you pretending to be stupid?

I do now. But you're making a big bubble of nothing. If the people ARE the government...

Plus, I would say that PEOPLE = country and not GOV'T = country more than the other way around.

The Mylai incident in Vietnam was terrible. The government did not order the soldiers to do that, they did it on their own.

The government in the US is the soldiers. Their families. Their friends. The same-sex child prostitutes they underpayed before they left for Vietnam. Well, not the latter, because they aren't participants yet.

I am saying the U.S. Government (which represents America) does not advocate all of this crap other people are spitting out.

Yes, it does. Other people = US. You're an American. Without Americans, there wouldn't be an America. No?

Child porn, etc. the government doesn't support that, do how can the government be evil if there is child porn in its land?

I don't think whether a gov't supports child porn or not makes it evil.

That's the point I am trying to make. NK deliberately starves its own people, the U.S. does not deliberately do this to its own people.

Are you sure about this? Deliberately? No, they just use money that they could be using to feed their people on other things. Bush could be feeding the millions of hungry people in our nation, but he uses the money instead for other things. Is this deliberate? Just as deliberate as NK.

NK can halt their military plans and spend some time on their economy and worry about FOOD. But what do they do? :rolleyes:

Gee, couldn't Bush do the same thing for those here who do without food?

That is evil.

Uhh... no. That isn't evil. Killing people isn't evil. Well, at least not usually.

If you're doing what you think is right, then it isn't evil. If you're doing something you think is evil, then it is.

And Sadam is evil as well

Oh really? lol. Typical theist with hypocritical definitions of evil... And if you don't use two Ds, or write it in the Arabic script, you aren't refering to the president of Iraq. Just a note because in the future I will assume that Sadam is somebody else.

he uses the most deadly weapons against his own people and neigboring countries.

When did he do this? 00; Oh, you mean the time he dropped a nuke on Damascus, or the time he dusted Baghdad with anthrax, or the time he dusted Riyadh with smallpox, or the time he dropped massive h-bombs on Ankara and Tehran simaultaneously, disentegrating the capital cities of both Iran and Turkey... oh wait... THAT NEVER HAPPENED~~~! :p :rolleyes: :p

You don't think he is evil? Tell me, what is your "definition" of evil?

If he doesn't think he's evil, then he isn't.

Start feeling sorry for yourself first.

Why? It's you that makes big concepts out of antimatter, only for them to later implode on themselves because of your own lack of knowledge that they will end up doing so for obvious reasons.

Some good points, TruthSeeker, but I think you don't realise that I was using the past imperfective tense in many cases, or the continuous in others, since your native language is in fact Portuguese.

Of course, you also have these tenses in a lengua Portuguêsa, but perhaps you have not learned their correct mapping to English verb tenses?

And most of your points are valid, yes, but some of them seem to be misunderstandings of the subtle changes in tense one can make in English.

Originally posted by sycoindian
what the hell does that have to do with anything... that's a stupid example... the government is elected by the ppl.. they represent the ppl.. so if ppl watch child porn and child porn = bad, then govt = bad... simple logic... i know i've presupposed in this logic, but so have you in your example...

Ok, I'd understand if 99% of the people are supporting child porn in the nation...but when it is less than the majority and one lets the minority represent what America is all about, that would say alot about one's logic.


who were those soldiers representing? they weren't there outta their own volition now were they? those soldiers are a symbol of the government...

They represent the U.S. Army, which represents the government that funds it.

The point I'm trying to make though, is, you can't isolate something on a small level and say that represents the whole country. You can say the Mylai soldiers represent one aspect of Americans, or even human evil, but you cannot say they represent what America is all about.

Just like comparing a grain of sand to the universe, doesn't work.


only the obvious acts are analyzed... the US govt has done worse covertly...

That's just your opinion, right? Any facts?

Originally posted by GB-GIL Trans-global
Yes... but then, in the US, citizens = government. So if citizens advocate child pr0n, the gov't does. If citizens advocate shoving a boulder up your ass, then the gov't does.

What if 1% of citizens advoate shoving a "boulder up your ass," does that result in the government supporting that also :rolleyes:


Hey... I like that last one...! :D

Just portrays your immature thoughts.


Yes, it does. Other people = US. You're an American. Without Americans, there wouldn't be an America. No?

I am American, but I'm not America :)


I don't think whether a gov't supports child porn or not makes it evil.

We have our own definitions of evil, let's keep it at that.


Are you sure about this? Deliberately? No, they just use money that they could be using to feed their people on other things. Bush could be feeding the millions of hungry people in our nation, but he uses the money instead for other things. Is this deliberate? Just as deliberate as NK.

Don't use the word "hungry" Every country has hungry people, but how many countries have a starvation problem?


Uhh... no. That isn't evil. Killing people isn't evil. Well, at least not usually.

Let's not argue opinions.


If you're doing what you think is right, then it isn't evil. If you're doing something you think is evil, then it is.

Wow, what logic. Then no one is evil then, because evil people believe there are doing what is right. Hitler thought it was right to rid the Jews of the world.

i hope we don't get into hitler on this thread. issues of moral relativity aside, a minority of Americans does not America make. That, my friends, is simple logic.

But don't get me wrong. I'm upset about what I see going on in the States. What the government is doing, internally and internationally, the people I see accepting lines dished out by political propoganda, the ignorance it fosters in everyone. We're all responsible for fighting against our own ignorance, whether you're an "American" or not. And there are Americans who are doing that.

I know, because I'm one of them.

GB-GIL Trans-global,

I was just playing with it and randomly adding more things... :D:D
I didn't pay much attention to the verb tenses...

---They represent the U.S. Army, which represents the government that funds it. The point I'm trying to make though, is, you can't isolate something on a small level and say that represents the whole country. You can say the Mylai soldiers represent one aspect of Americans, or even human evil, but you cannot say they represent what America is all about.---

we've covered this aspect over and over and over again... i donno why we keep hittin it again... what some soldiers do doesn't necessarily reflect what the ENTIRE country is for.. fine. agreed.. i wasn't disputing that... but isn't it the responsibility of the govt to make sure that the soldiers aren't outta line? and if they do go outta line, then take some action against those soldiers... and that my friend is the problem... no one is willing to admit any wrongdoing was done... now that is what pisses ppl off... if u get a chance, there is a thread about how the american soldiers committed war crimes during the war in afghanistan... shouldn't something be done about that too? the US govt is flatly refusing those claims...

and about givin you facts regarding all the shit the US has stirred, i assume u haven't read other threads in this section welll... u'll get all ur facts and tons and tons of websites and sources.. they have been given... u take ur pick... its all there...

What did I say about capitalism? Yes, it works for some, true. And every country would be better off if IT was like America, but all the other countries would be worse of if it was.

GB, just curious. What did you mean by the second statement? Sound somewhat contradictory.

Originally posted by 1119
GB, just curious. What did you mean by the second statement? Sound somewhat contradictory.

Example: if Zimbabwe was like America, it would be better off. But if Zimbabwe was like America, all the other nations would be worse off.

i think you need to be a little more specific here, GB. What do you mean, by "like America"? The economic hegemony of the world? The world military power? the self-imposed police officer of the world? or all of that good stuff? or perhaps something altogether different?

You say Iran, Iraq and NK are the only 3 countries in the world that are "evil"? Any country can be evil, well, let me restate that... any ruler has the ability to be evil, YES, even in Democracy. Bush is evil. Although I don't agree with half the stuff he does, I respect him and his decisions for everything that is going on. Do you guys understand how much stress and pressure Bush is under these days? Being president is possibly the hardest job in the world (well, being the cum-mopper at strip joints is too but that's besides the point). Anyway, those three countries are not the only 3 countries in the world that are "evil". we should keep these countries in mind also:
USA: After all, we are the most powerful nation in the world. We can do anything we want. I'm not saying this out of pride, but I'm stating the truth. I wouldn't consider the USA, "evil" nor "good" but rather neutral. If we get pissed off enough, who knows what Bush will do.
India: Is said to have nuclear missles in their hands... has distaste with some Pakistanis for old, ancient, stupid land and religion conflicts. See Pakistan.
Pakistan: may support terrorism. See India.
Cuba: although they're improving, they're still the closest communist nation to the USA. Cuba may not be as "evil" today but, they have a history of being "evil". I'm just saying this because we shouldn't forget about them.
Africa: is infested with AIDS and HIV virus. Scary how abundant AIDS is in Africa. Although not a threat we can control, AIDS can kill many people. Sorry, that joke sucked... lol :P
Any Nation that supports terrorism is evil:: terrorism is just what the word says. The sole purpose is to strike terror in humanity. If that isn't "evil", than what is? Any country that has a history with terrorism should be looked at with wary eyes.
Vatican City: Those evil catholics. Keeps your kids close by when there's a priest in town!
<br>
Sorry, had to throw some jokes in there. I'm living off of very little sleep right now so I can barely think (theres more countries that should be looked at). My point is that we shouldn't just state there are 3 Axis of evil. You never know what will happen in today's world. Every country can be evil. Hell, this world is evil.

Cuba: although they're improving, they're still the closest communist nation to the USA. Cuba may not be as "evil" today but, they have a history of being "evil". I'm just saying this because we shouldn't forget about them.
Just curious... what Cuba did that was "evil"?


Sorry, had to throw some jokes in there. I'm living off of very little sleep right now so I can barely think (theres more countries that should be looked at). My point is that we shouldn't just state there are 3 Axis of evil. You never know what will happen in today's world. Every country can be evil. Hell, this world is evil.
There was (is?) black market in Russia with the nearby countries. After the Cold War, the Russians were in desperate need for money and it is very likely that they sold many nuclear weapons to nearby countries like Kazaquistan and Uzbequistan...

Just curious... what Cuba did that was "evil"?
Nothing. The US supported Castro's predecessor, Batista, a ruthless dictator. When Batista got tired of the relationship, the US switched and gave support to Castro and his revolution. Unfortunately, they'd neglected to notice that Castro followed communist ideologies and that change - land reform etc, - threatened US interests. Plus, this being a time when the US was against all things commie, the anti-Cuba machine was rolled out and is still in place.

Any Nation that supports terrorism is evil:: terrorism is just what the word says. So tell me someone, what is the difference between a country training terrorists, and the US still training 'freedom fighters'?

Nothing. If you noticed, the USA was on the list too.