Really. Was Palin a better vote-getting pick than Biden, or is McCain sacrificing experience for political clout?

I think Barack made the right choice in Biden from what I have read about him. He's more concerned with governance than votes. Of course, now we have to wait and see exactly how dumb the US voters are and see if they go for style over substance. Can't imagine what it would entail having two loonies like McCain and Palin running free around the world. :(

I think that Biden is bound to mouth off and say something stupid, just like he has at all the other big opprotunities in his political career.

What do you mean by better? If you mean the better political move with the sole aim of getting more votes then probably Palin. If you mean better for the country then Biden by a long shot.

It's so blindingly obvious that qualifications or ability to do the job had absolutely nothing to do with McCain picking Palin. It's pandering to voters, nothing more.

I agree with Xelios.

I think that Biden is bound to mouth off and say something stupid, just like he has at all the other big opportunities in his political career. That's a baffling objection. What could he say that would match Palin's normal rhetoric ?

Suppose we were running a swan against a leopard, and people were worried about the swan stamping in some mud and getting a spot on its feathers. Spots, you see, would disqualify the candidate - they would lose votes for spots.

How to respond to that ?

I think Barack made the right choice in Biden from what I have read about him. He's more concerned with governance than votes. Of course, now we have to wait and see exactly how dumb the US voters are and see if they go for style over substance. Can't imagine what it would entail having two loonies like McCain and Palin running free around the world. :(


What do you mean by better? If you mean the better political move with the sole aim of getting more votes then probably Palin. If you mean better for the country then Biden by a long shot.

It's so blindingly obvious that qualifications or ability to do the job had absolutely nothing to do with McCain picking Palin. It's pandering to voters, nothing more.


I agree with Xelios.

Oh and of course, Biden was certainly NOT chosen because he is an old, white, establishment, pro-war, experienced candidate of course. :rolleyes: Obama chose Biden because he himself had no experience, so he needed a bit of credibility on his ticket for the voters. They were bot obviously political picks.

They were bot obviously political picks.

Of course Biden was a political pick, but not solely.
If it were just about votes, he would have picked Hillary and been a shoe-in.
Regardless, Biden would be much better for this country than Palin, in my opinion.

Oh and of course, Biden was certainly NOT chosen because he is an old, white, establishment, pro-war, experienced candidate of course. :rolleyes: Obama chose Biden because he himself had no experience, so he needed a bit of credibility on his ticket for the voters. They were bot obviously political picks.
Except Palin was way more obvious than Biden. If Obama lacks experience then the logical choice is to pick a guy with lots of experience to act as his wing man. That's good for politics and good for the country at the same time. If McCain has lots of experience the logical choice is not to pick someone with no experience at all, that would be of no benefit to the country.

She did bring some temporary excitement to McSame's race, but I don't think it will work in the long term.

Biden's tits are old and hairy. On the other hand...

Really. Was Palin a better vote-getting pick than Biden, or is McCain sacrificing experience for political clout?

Yes, Palin was a better vote getting pick then Joe Biden. Obama should of picked Hillary. Because America has proven that's it's more appreciative of the theatrical aspect of the campaign instead of the policy positions of either candidate.

I'd have to say this because even though Palin is a complete idiot, she brings energy and controversy to the table.

The reason Clinton didn't get picked was because of Bill. My opinion is that we should send him off to a city with pretty girls so he can be ambassador.

Except Palin was way more obvious than Biden. If Obama lacks experience then the logical choice is to pick a guy with lots of experience to act as his wing man. That's good for politics and good for the country at the same time. If McCain has lots of experience the logical choice is not to pick someone with no experience at all, that would be of no benefit to the country.
I think they were both pretty "strategic" picks. The difference is that Biden is actually qualified to be president should the need arise.

She did bring some temporary excitement to McSame's race, but I don't think it will work in the long term.

I think it has. As someone closely related to a boat-load of Republicans, I can say that they went from lukewarm to simmering when she got the nom.

That said, Biden was a great choice, but I still think that Obama should have picked Clinton. Call me crazy.

~String

But how does her pick influence the independents? I would say it alienates them.

But how does her pick influence the independents? I would say it alienates them.

You're right about that. She will help with those women who are hellbent on electing a woman, no matter what (and that has to be a vanishingly small number). What she does is what any good candidate does: energizes the base. Why? I don't know. I mean, it's not like she'll be making policy, but the Evangelical base (25% of all voters, and about half of all Republican voters) were asleep until he picked her. They're awake now, and that, in and of itself, has made her worth while.

Now he has to make sure she keeps quiet. All she does is tell the same speech over and over. It's really annoying.

~String

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec

Is.. is she just like way smarter than me? Cause I have NO idea what she's talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec

Is.. is she just like way smarter than me? Cause I have NO idea what she's talking about.
I think whenever she doesn't know how to answer a question (happens a lot) she just makes up other questions in her head and answers those instead. :shrug:

Just reading this thread, and allersby, WHAT THE HELL do you mean by taking my picture?

The selection of Governor Palin was, by nearly any measure, a horrible decision that McCain and his campaign seem to be regretting already.

It is impossible to reason, as some did in the early hours and days after the announcement, that Palin's selection was an effort to pick up disgruntled Hillary voters. While there are some women who want very badly to see a woman—any woman—within the executive, the idea of attracting fence-sitting Democratic women with Palin, whose stance on abortion is more conservative than Iran's, and who would bill rape victims for the cost of investigation, is nothing short of insanity.

The family-values issue was blown out the window when Palin thrust her pregnant daughter into the spotlight as a political sacrifice. Exploit the pregnancy, denounce anyone for making the point about abstinence-only education, put on a disingenuous celebration of the triumph of family values.

Assertions of "maverick" and "change" are dead, too. Palin's retraction of her cooperation with an ongoing investigation into whether or not an Alaska State Trooper was fired at her behest simply reek of the same old shit we've been getting from the White House these last eight years. Same with the "Bridge to Nowhere" issue.

Watching conservative pundits and advocates line up to scream "Sexism!" didn't work either, since those same blowhards spent Hillary's primary campaign attacking her for accusing sexism.

Nor does the swirling rumor about Lieberman reflect well on the Palin selection. Indeed, that tale suggests a very good reason why she was not adequately vetted. This, of course, brings into question both John McCain's wisdom in making decisions, as well as the GOP's perspective on the Party vs. the People.

The initial shock of Palin's candidacy—to borrow a phrase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4_vvDewm-A), it didn't seem "even in the realm of possibility"—definitely set the Democrats into a state of fear. But fear of the unknown and unexpected is not a permanent condition. Indeed, it evaporates much more quickly not only when the veil of mystery is peeled away, but the answers revealed are ... well ....

For the Democrats, Sarah Palin's candidacy is a godsend. As Bill Maher has pointed out, it damages a certain egalitarian stupidity about elections: sure, people want to have a beer with Bush because, well, "He's more like me", as the reasoning goes, than Gore or Kerry. But nobody wants to admit that Palin is just like them. Her performance so far has been so miserably stupid that she kind of scares people. There is a practical limit to this aspect of omni syndrome. Right now, people don't want to relate to Sarah Palin because they have a hard time imagining themselves so stupid. Short of raping children or killing elderly nuns, there's not much Palin can do to wreck her candidacy any worse. Truth told, secret video of her hitting a crack pipe might actually help her.

Joe Biden's task, come Thursday, will be unique: Everyone is expecting a lopsided affair to the point that Allersby's point about Biden's mouth becomes a legitimate concern. Gaffes in general are one thing; after all, we've tolerated a lot of shrubbery these last eight years. But Palin, as she has performed so far, seems such an underdog going into Thursday's debate that Biden may well be caught trying to figure out what lines not to cross. At some point, Americans will rally to the underdog, especially if the other side is just running up the score.

What Palin did for McCain was secure the conservative base. The history of evangelical Christian voters is problematic; they did not turn out in large numbers before the 1980 election, have enjoyed considerable influence for nearly thirty years, and may well, if they feel sleighted by the Republican Party, begin to withdraw. Indeed, it's hard to imagine they haven't a taste for it, but that's the importance of the Lieberman story. Had McCain gone with Lieberman, he risked losing perhaps millions of votes. In selecting Palin, it's hard to see that he's going to win very many new votes, but a folksy, family-values oriented pit-bull with lipstick and religious delusions is just what the campaign needs to secure the evangelical power center the GOP has come to depend on.

Or, at least, says me.

There is still some chance of her reclaiming her public image. All that has to happen is for McCain (or whoever's doing it) stop shielding her from the press and just let her speak her mind. Although you know what, she and Biden have been doing almost the same thing in the past month, and yet the big networks don't cover too much of her appearances and speech givings. I mean, she drew a crowd of 60 THOUSAND to one of her speeches. People just keep coming to hear her speak.

Although the big networks have done a good job discrediting her (she also had a hand in this... sounding like a noob in her 2 interviews) but she does know her shit. She needs to communicate better and show she is not a moron. Logic dictates that she is definitely capable and smart, otherwise she would not have made it to mayor and then governor (and then the VP pick over Jindal)... if only she starts communicating her ideas better she will start appealing to people more.

I don't know.. if the observations in this American Conservative article prove to be spot on, Palin might be a ticking time bomb ready to blow up in McCain's face once we see the Veep debate.

http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/27/a-world-of-hurt-there/

I don't know if i will watch the VP debate. Watching Palin might be to painfull.

I don't know.. if the observations in this American Conservative article prove to be spot on, Palin might be a ticking time bomb ready to blow up in McCain's face once we see the Veep debate.

http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/27/a-world-of-hurt-there/

How ignorant can you get? "Blow up in McCain's face"? As if!

Do you realize how close Alaska is to Russia? It's really fucking close:

http://worldheritage.heindorffhus.dk/russia-MapAlaskaBeringSea.gif

Let's not forget how she courageously told Congress to fuck itself after Congress itself told itself to fuck itself.


Kadark

call me stupid but what was the "bridge to nowhere"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec

Is.. is she just like way smarter than me? Cause I have NO idea what she's talking about.MILF seems to think the more she babbles the more sense she makes...then she realizes she's making no sense and so she really kicks it into gear and gets the babbling going - you know, so that some sense will come out.

In short, she's a MILF version of Junior.

call me stupid but what was the "bridge to nowhere"?

It was going to be a multimillion dollar bridge to island that like 60 people lived on.

why not just subsidise a ferry to it????????

the federal goverment here has responcability for "roads of national importance" which includes the M1 (the national highway all the way around the country). Now oviously tassi is an island so you cant make a road that goes there (and bass straight is to dangerious for a bridge) so the federal goverment subsidises the ferry from victoria to tassi

why not just subsidise a ferry to it????????

Now, when you hear Americans use the phrase "pork barrel", well, that's what they mean. Generally speaking, the phrase is abused to the point of cliché. It's kind of like "compromise" and "selling out". Any "compromise" shown by the opponent is an example of "selling out" one's morals. Any "selling out" done by one's party is a brilliant example of "compromise".

Likewise, any federal money going to specific projects in one's state is, to the opponents, "pork barrel", while any federal money going to specific projects in their own state is "necessary" and an example of "leadership".

In both cases, there is a wide range of subtle degrees. However, by pretty much any measurement, save the fanatical, the Gravina Island Bridge is extreme pork. Indeed, as Governor Palin demonstrates, even its earlier supporters are trying to distance themselves from the debacle.

Logic dictates that she is definitely capable and smart, otherwise she would not have made it to mayor and then governor That kind of "logic" is what gave us eight years of W - the first term on "he must be capable and smart, or he wouldn't have been elected governor or nominated for President", the second term based on people thinking "he must be capable and smart, or he would never have been elected President".

He just had a "communication problem", meaning he sounded incapable and ignorant and even stupid when he talked, and looked incapable and ignorant and stupid when he acted. But it was said that couldn't have been true, because he'd been elected governor.

The antidote for this kind of logic is factual records. Palin apparently did a bad job as mayor, and her 18 months of Governorship have produced major screwups and legal investigations, not a record of accomplishment. Everything she has done could have been done by someone ignorant and incapable and not too bright.

Everyone who knows her - enemy or friend - says she is smart. That is some evidence we have of her being smart. Not everyone says she is capable or knowledgeable or wise. We should go by the best evidence we have.

why not just subsidise a ferry to it????????

the federal goverment here has responcability for "roads of national importance" which includes the M1 (the national highway all the way around the country). Now oviously tassi is an island so you cant make a road that goes there (and bass straight is to dangerious for a bridge) so the federal goverment subsidises the ferry from victoria to tassi

As it happens, there was a ferry.

Now, when you hear Americans use the phrase "pork barrel", well, that's what they mean. Generally speaking, the phrase is abused to the point of cliché. It's kind of like "compromise" and "selling out". Any "compromise" shown by the opponent is an example of "selling out" one's morals. Any "selling out" done by one's party is a brilliant example of "compromise".

Likewise, any federal money going to specific projects in one's state is, to the opponents, "pork barrel", while any federal money going to specific projects in their own state is "necessary" and an example of "leadership".

In both cases, there is a wide range of subtle degrees. However, by pretty much any measurement, save the fanatical, the Gravina Island Bridge is extreme pork. Indeed, as Governor Palin demonstrates, even its earlier supporters are trying to distance themselves from the debacle.

It essentially was a worthless project that was created to the Alaskan government could siphon off federal funds for other projects.