Just Read "The Tomb of Hercules" By Andy Mcdermot, and in the book he mentions a Submarine that has a squared off nose that creates a cavity of pressure around the craft at high speed, reducing the friction.

Just wondering if this sort of super high speed Submarine Idea is possible? or is in use anywhere (torpedoes?)

I doubt it for submarines. Namely because you need rocket propulsion to power it and to move something of that mass fast enough I can't imagine you could store that much fuel to go any farther than 50 kilometers, but more likely around 7 km.

But there is a torpedo made by Russia called the SHKVAL that does accomplish super cavitation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/Shkval-1.jpg

wow, thanks for that link, 200kts underwater, i thought that was impossible before now.

yah, its basically a missile flying underwater.

You can do that for a submarine, but the energy needs will be very high making the process impractical, unless you want to move a short distance with high speed.

Precisely.

Km, I know that originally the SHKVAL was unguided, but they created control surfaces by extending fins into the water just outside of the bubble.

I know that with solid fuel and liquid fuel rockets they can steer somewhat by actually manipulating which way the funnel faces that the flames shoot out of, tell me, what is keeping supercavitating torpedos from using something similar?

Do you think it is because the response time and turning radius would be poor?

Precisely.

Km, I know that originally the SHKVAL was unguided, but they created control surfaces by extending fins into the water just outside of the bubble.

I know that with solid fuel and liquid fuel rockets they can steer somewhat by actually manipulating which way the funnel faces that the flames shoot out of, tell me, what is keeping supercavitating torpedos from using something similar?

Do you think it is because the response time and turning radius would be poor?

Well, I don't know much about torpedoes, but I do know that the faster something goes, the harder it is to maneuver. (Exception with jets)

(Exception with jets)
Not even. :D
There is a control problem at low speed with aircraft, but that's due to lack of sufficient airflow over the control surfaces to provide the required authority.
But the faster a jet goes the harder it is to deflect from its course. And the greater the stresses induced when you do manage to do so.

Not even. :D
There is a control problem at low speed with aircraft, but that's due to lack of sufficient airflow over the control surfaces to provide the required authority.
But the faster a jet goes the harder it is to deflect from its course. And the greater the stresses induced when you do manage to do so.

Hey, I was right.

Well, I don't know much about torpedoes, but I do know that the faster something goes, the harder it is to maneuver. (Exception with jets)

Cars\Motorcycles?

Cars\Motorcycles?

Especially Cars/Motorcycles. The faster you go in a car the wider the turns have to be. Same with motorcycles.

They maneuver better and turn easier at high rates of speed and under power. You are pointing out limitations in the tires.

They maneuver better and turn easier at high rates of speed and under power. You are pointing out limitations in the tires.

Wrong. A car takes quite a while to turn, and even then it has to be a wide turn. It's all about momentum. To suddenly change direction makes the car skid/drift.

That is due, as i said, to limitations in the tires. One experiment is to try and turn a motorcycle by leaning alone. You can do this the faster you go but if you are going very slow? That is due to momentum.

That is due, as i said, to limitations in the tires. One experiment is to try and turn a motorcycle by leaning alone. You can do this the faster you go but if you are going very slow? That is due to momentum.

Ok. I see your point. But it's still hard to turn, no matter the cause is.

I am going off the top of my head here but the OP is not about cavitation. Lets see how good my memory is.

Its funny because i think he got the term from superheating. You would not want super cavitation. I could be wrong though because i am going off a definition i have in my mind.

I am going off the top of my head here but the OP is not about cavitation. Lets see how good my memory is.
Off the top of my head you're wrong:


Just Read "The Tomb of Hercules" By Andy Mcdermot, and in the book he mentions a Submarine that has a squared off nose that creates a cavity of pressure around the craft at high speed, reducing the friction.
Just wondering if this sort of super high speed Submarine Idea is possible? or is in use anywhere (torpedoes?)


Its funny because i think he got the term from superheating. You would not want super cavitation.
No it's not from superheating, it's a well-known phenomenon that is "super", i.e. over and above, normal cavitation.
And yes, you would want supercavitaion, it causes less drag than normal cavitation.


I could be wrong though because i am going off a definition i have in my mind.
You are wrong. Why not use the actual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercavitation) definition?

They maneuver better and turn easier at high rates of speed and under power.
They appear to, but that is a control problem. E.g. at low speed it's a question of keeping balance. But the faster they go they greater the radius of turn (i.e. the less manoeuvrable they are).

They appear to, but that is a control problem. E.g. at low speed it's a question of keeping balance. But the faster they go they greater the radius of turn (i.e. the less manoeuvrable they are).

Did you ever see the 'Mythbusters' episode, where they tried to recreate the 'Batman' cornering grapple hook scene?

The managed to fire a grappling hook and to get it to attach to a structure OK, but even at moderate speed, the cables were just under too much stress and broke. Tight cornering and G-Forces, are a bitch.

It's all about momentum.

Bingo. To manipulate that momentum you need to create greater force to get the right vectors. In space they use separate jets as no fins or passive devices would work - nothing to hang on to.

When you have external friction acting on the device, it depends on the configuration of the device. That is why StarTrek uses mythical inertia dampeners!

Anyone who finds a solution to inertia could be very rich...

Did you ever see the 'Mythbusters' episode, where they tried to recreate the 'Batman' cornering grapple hook scene?

The managed to fire a grappling hook and to get it to attach to a structure OK, but even at moderate speed, the cables were just under too much stress and broke. Tight cornering and G-Forces, are a bitch.

Yeah, most sports cars, even really good ones, can corner at 1G tops (They test this in Motor Trend all the time on a track designed for it). Think about what 1 G is. That's how much the car would weigh if the grappling hook were suspending it from a cliff or something. 2 G's or 3 G's..... and that'd have to be a very strong cable.