The question,
How can humanity avoid extinction? or is it truly unavoidable?

Maybe the fact that we are on a guarenteed course to extinction is the biggest secret, but it also allows for big questions.

Who would like to ask some?

By the way, there is the voluntary extinction movement for all who choose to accept extinction as an unavoidable future. http://www.vhemt.org/

The question,
How can humanity avoid extinction?



Send me to Mars with all I ask for (Life supporting system included) and a girl to mate with. And humanity has some chance for some time. :)

http://weblog.theviewfromthecore.com/TheBlogFromTheCore20040214.jpg

Those dunes make me want to hug them.

every species is on a guaranteed course to extinction.

every species is on a guaranteed course to extinction.

not with me around here. got/know any girls to refer to me?

every species is on a guaranteed course to extinction.

Yes because humans in their process of extincting themselves will take many other species with them.

Yes because humans in their process of extincting themselves will take many other species with them.

you wouldnt say...future hasnt come yet. Gotta be optimistic...and follow that optimism.

Yes because humans in their process of extincting themselves will take many other species with them.

No, all species are guaranteed to go extinct. They always have and they always will. That's how the system works. It has nothing to do with humanity.

you wouldnt say...future hasnt come yet. Gotta be optimistic...and follow that optimism.

be realistic. Maybe if more people were realistic the world wouldnt be in it's current state. It's optimists who always assumed the best but always got the worst, that's why we are getting worse.

When are we going to expect the worst and work for the best?

No, all species are guaranteed to go extinct. They always have and they always will. That's how the system works. It has nothing to do with humanity.

That's not true, a borg robot self repairing self replicating species on another planet would never have to worry about going extinct. It's only species that want to go extinct that go extinct. A species chooses extinction, otherwise it would use it's brain to remove all possibility of extinction.

be realistic. Maybe if more people were realistic the world wouldnt be in it's current state. It's optimists who always assumed the best but always got the worst, that's why we are getting worse.

When are we going to expect the worst and work for the best?

Ok...let me expect the worst...Ill be dead in nuclear blast from iran's missile.

Ok...now let me work for the best...umm...prepare a coffin perhaps?

And watch the sky turn orange...and than red...sky on fire

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/012007/24/hdr/13_hdr.jpg

That's not true, a borg robot self repairing self replicating species on another planet would never have to worry about going extinct. It's only species that want to go extinct that go extinct. A species chooses extinction, otherwise it would use it's brain to remove all possibility of extinction.

Are you saying that the dodo wanted to go extinct? Or all dinosaur species (except the ones who rather wanted to be birds)?

Are you saying that the dodo wanted to go extinct? Or all dinosaur species (except the ones who rather wanted to be birds)?

Yes, because if they didn't they would have fucked more often, and fucked smarter.

Yes, because if they didn't they would have fucked more often, and fucked smarter.

there is a limit of resources...as well as natural disasters...that prevent from mass reproduction

Yes, because if they didn't they would have fucked more often, and fucked smarter.

Fucking more doesn't necessarily change the rate of births in dodos. Nor does it guarantee exceding the death rate.

Humanity's death shall never occur. We shall live forever.

There is no end to the destiny of man. We are the purpose of life.

Humanity's death shall never occur. We shall live forever.

There is no end to the destiny of man. We are the purpose of life.

no, we are not.

Humanity's death shall never occur. We shall live forever.

There is no end to the destiny of man. We are the purpose of life.

finally truth surfaces! Thank you Prince James!

prove that we are the purpose of life.

prove that we are the purpose of life.

disprove that we are not purpose of life.

Fucking more doesn't necessarily change the rate of births in dodos. Nor does it guarantee exceding the death rate.

Fucking smarter does though.

Humanity's death shall never occur. We shall live forever.

There is no end to the destiny of man. We are the purpose of life.


Prince James, how exactly can humans avoid extinction? Just because you say it is so, it does not make it so.

If you believe we shall live forever, maybe you should figure out how, and for once we may agree on something. But with the racist stuff you write, if the majority of humans think like you, how exactly do you hope for a possibility of avoiding extinction? Don't you think that humans will simply get more and more self destructive, essentially forever?

Prince James, how exactly can humans avoid extinction? Just because you say it is so, it does not make it so.

If you believe we shall live forever, maybe you should figure out how, and for once we may agree on something. But with the racist stuff you write, if the majority of humans think like you, how exactly do you hope for a possibility of avoiding extinction? Don't you think that humans will simply get more and more self destructive, essentially forever?

Humans can live close to forever by waging wars between each other...that way the universe will have enough to accomodate. As for humans self distructing...the world population has been going up ever since...watch the smart ones with nukes blow themselves up and the third world countries remain with ruins to stare at and new Gods to bow to.

disprove that we are not purpose of life.

We will go extinct.

We will go extinct.

prove that we will go extinct. :) :D Based on world human population over years increasing...we have been doing well so far.

prove that we will go extinct. :) :D Based on world human population over years increasing...we have been doing well so far.


I will prove it to you in 53.789 years when the last lone male specimen of the human species dies in some zoo in some star system.

I will prove it to you in 53.789 years when the last lone male specimen of the human species dies in some zoo in some star system.

prove that the number of years you specified has anything to do with humanity extinction.

prove that they don't.

prove that they don't.

prove that they do.

If you play that game I can refer you back to post 25 where you still have to answer my request that you prove something.

The proof is, humans don't care about humans.

Do either of you care about the species?

whats with triple posting?
And yes I care about species. That why I am optimistic...unlike you people.

I care about the species but I won't when I'm dead. I hope the world explodes the second I'm dead. We won't go extinct though. We'll live forever in some zoo in some star system.

Science Vol. 309. no. 5738, pp. 1239 - 1241

For larger species, intrinsic biological traits become a significant determinant of extinction risk in addition to environmental factors: Large species are thus more likely to be evolutionarily predisposed to decline.

The solution is simple. We should get smaller. Unfortunately the current trend is to get taller and (especially for our american friends) get fatter. Both are variations of getting 'larger'.

I suggest we start a breeding program to get us smaller.

Unfortunately the minute we are small the following will happen:
Smaller species are more likely to become threatened simply through environmental disadvantage: that is, the size and location of their geographic ranges and the levels of human impact to which they are exposed.

We will be wiped out by an elephant taking a dump on top of us, or something similarly catastrophic.

I care about the species but I won't when I'm dead. I hope the world explodes the second I'm dead. We won't go extinct though. We'll live forever in some zoo in some star system.

If you care about the species, do you care about draqon?

whats with triple posting?
And yes I care about species. That why I am optimistic...unlike you people.

draqon, then you should care about redarmy.

Of course. He's great.

He does. He wants to be my boyfriend.

Of course. He's great.

Alright, I believe you geniunely do care about the species, yourself, and draqon.

thx.

Caring for the species is unnatural.

Caring for the species is unnatural.

So it's natural to hate yourself and be suicidal?

That is rather a random statement regarding my statement. Species does not equal the individual. And I do not see the connection between the misery of the individual and the caring for the species.

That is rather a random statement regarding my statement. Species does not equal the individual. And I do not see the connection between the misery of the individual and the caring for the species.

Actually yes, it does. All species are made up of individuals, duh.
If you don't have enough self awareness to recognize that you should care about your species then you go extinct.

This is why bees, ants and roaches don't go extinct. Their every function in their civilization is preservation of their species. They basically are like little perfect machines.

It's natural to have awareness just like it's natural for your bodies cells to function in a way which allows your body to stay together and not attack itself. Your body has an immune system and communication system, and you know all this because you are aware of it, but you also are aware of humanities larger body, made up of individuals, and thats our species.

So it's actually natural to care about our species, thats the only reason love exists in the first place, and it's also the only reason that reason itself exists.

That's merely your opinion. Every biologist knows that every species goes extinct in the end. And that individuals do not act in the interests of the species.

That's merely your opinion. Every biologist knows that every species goes extinct in the end. And that individuals do not act in the interests of the species.

Thats BS, roaches don't go extinct in the end, neither do ants and most insects. Mammals are just weaker and less aware. To think every species will go extinct in the end is a bit, small minded, even for a biologist.

If a biologist is smart enough to know what extinction is, and what causes it, they are smart enough to cure extinction. It's really simple, if humans are going to go extinct, and we have the genius to decide not to, we could decide not to you know and then we won't have to. We control our destiny and no one else, we already made it to the moon, we left the planet, we can do anything we want.

roaches is not a species, and neither are ants.

I think you are confused.

The reason materialists like you cannot solve the extinction problem is because you believe that physical reality is real. Your body is temporary. All physical objects are temporary, do you get it?

But our species does not have to be temporary. We could put our species into something else, so that we never go extinct, we could program a virus to infect the universe with and inject all living matter with human genes. Think outside the box.

I'm not saying this would be a good idea, but this is likely how we came to exist in the first place and we could recreate our existance somewhere else once again. Not to mention we can genetically engineer, clone, build cyborgs, and human/robot hybrids, and human/animal hybrids called hubrids, and if theres aliens we could build human alien hybrids if we wanted to.

So you see, there is no limits to what we can do if we don't want to go extinct. Humans will only go extinct by choice, humans will choose extinction because they want it, not because it's some sorta natural thing. If there are aliens in the universe far evolved beyond all this, you can be damn sure they mastered themselves and their genetic code and their ability to survive before coming into the universe to explore. Humans are barely out of the caves and already landed on the moon. Imagine how far advanced aliens might be who might have landed on their moon millions of years ago. They'd be so far ahead of us that they could take over planet earth by infecting humans with a virus and injecting humans with alien genes. No one would even know the invasion took place, it would be as simple as catching a cold. Our genes would be updated by new viruses, and we'd never know it was aliens at all, we'd consider it "natural".

So you see, just like we control our robots and can update the software on them, other living things can update our hardware and software, and finally we have the ability to program ourselves out of extinction and you still want to be a slave? Why not be the master of the universe?

Here is an extinct cockroach species.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1640807.stm


But our species does not have to be temporary. We could put our species into something else, so that we never go extinct, we could program a virus to infect the universe with and inject all living matter with human genes. Think outside the box.

That would be killing of the species.

Here is an extinct cockroach species.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1640807.stm



That would be killing of the species.

The cockroach species is NOT extinct, they just evolved. You still see new types of roaches today, we don't even know all the different types theres so many of them.

Just because you find the original roach, it does not mean the species went extinct, it might have updated itself to become the current roach.

Species evolving is one of the mechanism by which a species can go extinct.

They don't call the members of the human species longfish anymore for this particular reason. The ancestral longfish species and the human species have become different species. If you change the human species thoroughly enough it is a different species.

Hence you actions suggest we let the human species go extinct.

TimeTraveler:


Prince James, how exactly can humans avoid extinction? Just because you say it is so, it does not make it so.

Certainly.

Why man shall live forever is very simple. He can control pretty much every aspect of nature there is, by virtue of the fact that he is intelligent and has culture to transmit information from generation to generation. Accordingly, each generation is ultimately smarter than the last so long as the information is kept in some form that is usable and known to enough. This means that, within the bounds of reason, man can likely accomplish anything. This includes such things as extremely extended lifespans, cures to all diseases, space craft, and various other things.

Consider that MAD even protects us from devestation of nuclear confrontation.


If you believe we shall live forever, maybe you should figure out how, and for once we may agree on something. But with the racist stuff you write, if the majority of humans think like you, how exactly do you hope for a possibility of avoiding extinction? Don't you think that humans will simply get more and more self destructive, essentially forever?

Actually, the fact that we have races, and that these races are somewhat antagonistic to eachother, is good for two reasons:

1. Genetic diversity.

2. The innovation stemming from confrontation, specifically long term confrontation.

show that we have races.

Apparently you've never been to a city with a diverse population?

I have. Show that we have races.

recent news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6293333.stm

A Leicester University study found that seven men with a rare Yorkshire surname carry a genetic signature previously found only in people of African origin.

The men seem to have shared a common ancestor in the 18th Century, but the African DNA lineage they carry may have reached Britain centuries earlier.

"Human migration history is clearly very complex, particularly for an island nation such as ours, and this study further debunks the idea that there are simple and distinct populations or 'races'."


There are other precedents for the finding. When scientists analysed the DNA of the third US president, Thomas Jefferson, they found that his Y chromosome belonged to a haplogroup known as K2.

Jefferson's father claimed Welsh ancestry. But his Y-haplogroup is vanishingly rare in Europe and has not yet been reported in Britain.

In fact, genetic studies show that Thomas Jefferson's K2 haplogroup ultimately came from north-east Africa or the Middle East, the areas where it is most commonly found today.

You know, I think a better definition of extinction should be made here. Is extinction the decline of our civilization? Is it the decline of homo sapiens?

Because the way I see it, extinction could be a good or bad thing. Bad would be if a catastrophic event killed everyone off. Good if somehow we either naturally or, more likely, artificially evolve into something else.

But yeah, either one would at least be interesting to be around for.

How can humanity avoid extinction? or is it truly unavoidable?

We're going to become apes again for failing so hard. It can be avoided, but not without upsetting people.

Humanity is guaranteed extinction. I often wonder what the purpose is of living when in the end, eons from now, everything will be dead, no matter where it is in the universe.

I realize in the short term, by short term I mean thousands and millions of years, we will advance and move on. My point is, in the end, the sun will have gone supernova, earth will be decimated. The sun will then die out completely leaving no light or heat in this solar system. If humans are able to be transplanted at that time, the next thing will be Andromeda colliding with the Milky Way. After that, it will just be a matter of time that all hydrogen will be exhausted in the universe and total darkness to all will occur. The universe will have expanded to extreme boundaries. After all of that, what will all of this have been for then?

We are part of the purpose of life. There is still a long way to go and a lot to do.

To avoid extinction, humanity must expand into the solar system and the stars. So long as all of humanity is on one planet, we are vulnerable to things like asteroid impacts that seem to periodically wipe out 99% of the life on earth.

The only reason we want to survive is because mainly death is so unpleasant and subconsciously we're afraid that there might actually be life after death but is terrifying as we don't know what that might be or for some that its the end, there are some people around us we want to make sure are well since they are here etc.

If there was a pleasant way to go, a lot of people would take it. If they can go past worrying about who has to bury them, responsibility to those they leave behind, bills etc then a lot of people might especially at stressful times in their life.

If we were the purpose of life wouldn't everything run a bit more smoothly?

The only reason we want to survive is because mainly death is so unpleasant and subconsciously we're afraid that there might actually be life after death but is terrifying as we don't know what that might be or for some that its the end, there are some people around us we want to make sure are well since they are here etc.
Whoa...what? Afraid that there's an afterlife?!?! I would be overjoyed. You're crazy. I mean really...what's wrong with you? What could be scary about continuing existence? Anything's better than dying.

The question,
How can humanity avoid extinction? or is it truly unavoidable?

A good question, I'm sure you could write a book with the answer if you really wanted to. I can't answer the question though, I haven't lived long enough IMO. I'd imagine evironmental precautions, farm towers, localised independent societies, elitist eugenics and training from birth, and most importantly, heavily fortified biodomes for when the nukes start dropping. Maybe colonising other planets, or the ocean, perhaps satelite societies and such. I don't think we'll go extinct though. If anything, we'll barely make it, but I doubt we'll go extinct. Maybe a lot of people will die, but anything short of a full blown nuclear war...I don't see extinction. I do think that we'll cause the extinction of many other species(as we already have).

Prince_James;



Certainly.

Why man shall live forever is very simple. He can control pretty much every aspect of nature there is, by virtue of the fact that he is intelligent and has culture to transmit information from generation to generation. Accordingly, each generation is ultimately smarter than the last so long as the information is kept in some form that is usable and known to enough.

I'm sure all our discussions are saved somewhere. The problem I worry about is that there will be no future generations. What if we don't take good care of the earth, or good care of our species, ourselves, etc? Future generations will be born into and live in a holocaust wasteland.




This means that, within the bounds of reason, man can likely accomplish anything. This includes such things as extremely extended lifespans, cures to all diseases, space craft, and various other things.


We can, but only certain men want this, or are willing to do this. Most people want shorter lifespans and quicker money. Most people are livnig faster not longer, and we just don't seem to give a fuck anymore about the future, or about our species.




Consider that MAD even protects us from devestation of nuclear confrontation.

Maybe and maybe not. It applied to Russia, let's see if it applies to other countries. I don't know for sure if that will work again in the future.



Actually, the fact that we have races, and that these races are somehat antagonistic to eachother, is good for two reasons:

1. Genetic diversity.

2. The innovation stemming from confrontation, specifically long term confrontation.

Rivalry can be good, but in the extreme it leads to religious wars, and extinction. If you want to believe in race and compete to see who can cure cancer, or cure HIV, or go into space, I'm all for that. If you want to compete to see who can extend the human lifespan, or compete in the olympics, or soccer, or in whatever, I'm all for humans in competition to create a better mankind.

That's not currently what we are doing though. Right now we have people within each race, who want to destroy all the races. You do realize that each race needs each other don't you? You can't have white without black. In europe there are many different races of white, in Africa many different races of black, in the end, all we have is us, and we depend on each other to survive, regardless of what race you claim.

Humanity is based on illusions like democracy, capitalism and multiculturalism. It's heading for an early end. RIP LOL humanity

I can not think of anything that would cause humanity to go extinct, I think that the earth is so big and people are spread out enough to survive anything really, but to keep our population from outgrowing our environment and resources we will have to start planning agriculture to provide for a lot more people and populate areas not inhabited, make sure we have enough different areas to grow food so that a few failed crops will not be a disaster, or a change in climate will not leave us without land to grow food. With fruit trees taking years to bear fruit they are something that you can not wait tell you need fruit to plant them.

The only reason we want to survive is because mainly death is so unpleasant and subconsciously we're afraid that there might actually be life after death but is terrifying as we don't know what that might be or for some that its the end, there are some people around us we want to make sure are well since they are here etc.

If there was a pleasant way to go, a lot of people would take it. If they can go past worrying about who has to bury them, responsibility to those they leave behind, bills etc then a lot of people might especially at stressful times in their life.


It's not even that. It's not that all individuals fear "death". Some individuals actually care about children who will be born into this mess we call a world.

Something has to change, not for our sake, but for the sake of the unborn. When you have children, if you have them, do you want to bring them into this? Your childrens job will be to clean up the mess that our grandparents, parents, and we helped to create.

The jobs of the future will be jobs to clean up all the mess and limit our destructiveness. That's what our children will be doing. I just hope that the world is not so dangerous with radiation and pesticides, and toxins, that people can live a somewhat ordinary life. If not, most children will have shorter lifespans than we had.

Yes, becasue one day the Sun will explode.

Yes, becasue one day the Sun will explode.

Perhaps we'll find another star system by then. Then, there's always the Big Crunch or the Big Chill.

I can not think of anything that would cause humanity to go extinct, I think that the earth is so big and people are spread out enough to survive anything really, but to keep our population from outgrowing our environment and resources we will have to start planning agriculture to provide for a lot more people and populate areas not inhabited, make sure we have enough different areas to grow food so that a few failed crops will not be a disaster, or a change in climate will not leave us without land to grow food. With fruit trees taking years to bear fruit they are something that you can not wait tell you need fruit to plant them.

Think of it like this, what if some people are born into this earth to bring about our extinction, and spend all their time and energy trying to figure out how to do it, while everyone else just blindly buys into it, and consumes us into extinction?

The masses are so dumb that you could sell extinction as a product and they'd buy it. So how exactly can we not go extinct when no ones fighting to keep us from going extinct?

"yes, because the Sun will explode"

That is true, but by then we could be populating other planets or anything imaginable really, im not thinking that far ahead.

The masses are so dumb that you could sell extinction as a product and they'd buy it. So how exactly can we not go extinct when no ones fighting to keep us from going extinct?

LOL! That's one of the best answers I have heard in a while. I do agree.

They are buying it. Ever heard of a cigarette? But more importantly, Nature is self-destructive. Thats why we DIE because nature WANTS us to.

Why does nature permit alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers to be addicted and kill themselves?? Not a very good survival strategy.

Yes, because if they didn't they would have fucked more often, and fucked smarter.

Oh no, not the same "evolution is all about fucking and nothing to do with selection" thread starting up again?!:rolleyes:

Nature is self-destructive.

It can be (as in programmed cell death).

So it's actually natural to care about our species, thats the only reason love exists in the first place,

What about love for pets?:D

Something has to change, not for our sake, but for the sake of the unborn. When you have children, if you have them, do you want to bring them into this? Your childrens job will be to clean up the mess that our grandparents, parents, and we helped to create.

People have been saying exactly that same lament for millions of years, and somehow the generations just keep adapting to the "horrible mess" that others left behind. It's call adaptation.

I think there are probably speeches by politicians saying exactly that same thing in order to get elected to office ...then didn't or couldn't do shit about any of it.

I know for a fact that my grandfather said exactly that same thing to my parents when their first son was born. My guess is that his grandfather said the same thing to him, too.

Baron Max

Baron Max;1276517]People have been saying exactly that same lament for millions of years, and somehow the generations just keep adapting to the "horrible mess" that others left behind. It's call adaptation.

I don't know about the millions of years stuff. Really most people are not saying it, and just don't care. I think yeah some generations care more than others, and thats why sometimes we have a golden age and sometimes we don't.



I think there are probably speeches by politicians saying exactly that same thing in order to get elected to office ...then didn't or couldn't do shit about any of it.

Well, you cannot really change things poltiically. Kennedy came and was elected, and tried to make big changes, even landed us on the moon.



I know for a fact that my grandfather said exactly that same thing to my parents when their first son was born. My guess is that his grandfather said the same thing to him, too.

Yeah but not enough people have actively focused on the future. It seems as if most people are mind controlled zombies. It's really a complete disappointment.

Spuriousmonkey:

You do realize you simulteneously affirmed and denied race in the same post, yet?

Race has much to do with haplogroups and ancestry, with a secondary focus on physical appearance, which often follows the haplogroup.

Related haplogroups are closely related and a few "common races", can encompase more than one haplogroup.

For more proof of race, see the new medicines being developed just for blacks:

http://cbs2chicago.com/health/health_story_313223150.html

TimeTraveler:


I'm sure all our discussions are saved somewhere. The problem I worry about is that there will be no future generations. What if we don't take good care of the earth, or good care of our species, ourselves, etc? Future generations will be born into and live in a holocaust wasteland.

It does not seem that we are wont to abuse the Earth when we can figure out things to keep it going. For instance, we're rapidly developing clean technologies and are not trying to pollute more than we have to.

Moreover, there does not seem to be any threat, enviromentally, that could end humanity at this point in time.


We can, but only certain men want this, or are willing to do this. Most people want shorter lifespans and quicker money. Most people are livnig faster not longer, and we just don't seem to give a fuck anymore about the future, or about our species.

In regards to what? Buying SUVS that chug gas?


Maybe and maybe not. It applied to Russia, let's see if it applies to other countries. I don't know for sure if that will work again in the future.

The idea is this: If anyone wants to engage in a large-scale nuclear war against another nuclear power, they have to realize that the only response could be a retaliation followed by a nuclear winter. Accordingly, no large-scale nuclear war will occur so long as this holds true. However, what we may see is one or two nuclear devices exploded in the next hundred or two hundred years, in a limited nuclear war.

China doesn't have a suicide wish. Neither does India or France or England or even Israel.


That's not currently what we are doing though. Right now we have people within each race, who want to destroy all the races. You do realize that each race needs each other don't you? You can't have white without black. In europe there are many different races of white, in Africa many different races of black, in the end, all we have is us, and we depend on each other to survive, regardless of what race you claim.

I agree, definitely. All the races are of value in their own sphere. Accordingly, I would not want any of them to be annihilated, anymore than I would want them to all intermingle and lose all their individual strengths.

I don't think that there will be a time where any individual will likely be able to fullfil this imperative for "extinction of all other races", though. This seems unlikely, owing to both the difficulty of this task, and the necessary resistance this would engender in the world populace. Moreover, without nuclear or some other massively destructive weapon, it is not likely to happen.

Spuriousmonkey:

You do realize you simulteneously affirmed and denied race in the same post, yet?

Race has much to do with haplogroups and ancestry, with a secondary focus on physical appearance, which often follows the haplogroup.

Related haplogroups are closely related and a few "common races", can encompase more than one haplogroup.

For more proof of race, see the new medicines being developed just for blacks:

http://cbs2chicago.com/health/health_story_313223150.html

You do not understand science. Development of medication for certain subpopulations does not equal the existence of races.

I know it is a very difficult concept to understand for people like you, but science has certain standards that need to be met before you can claim things. It's not equal to having an opinion on things. Or seeing the obvious. Or using common sense.

What about love for pets?:D

It's fine to love animals, pets are slaves, so recognize the fact that pets have some basic rights.

Prince James


It does not seem that we are wont to abuse the Earth when we can figure out things to keep it going. For instance, we're rapidly developing clean technologies and are not trying to pollute more than we have to.


No Prince James, it is not YOU who is developing clean technology, because you don't even have the sort of beliefs that would lead anyone to take you seriously when you pretend to support it. Yeah some people want to protect the earth, but what have you done to protect your own species? You spend so much time spreading hatred towards your fellow humans, that I cannot take that comment seriously.



Moreover, there does not seem to be any threat, enviromentally, that could end humanity at this point in time.


Humans are the threat. Don't you understand that humans want to end humans as quickly as possible? How many people have to suffer before you see reality? Are you living in some kinda matrix? How do you treat your fellow humans? If you hate your fellow humans, how exactly can you expect anyone to believe you care about the species when you hate?




In regards to what? Buying SUVS that chug gas?



If you hate humans, fuck em, right? Chug on. What difference does it make to you what happens to the unborn when you dont' even care about the born?




The idea is this: If anyone wants to engage in a large-scale nuclear war against another nuclear power, they have to realize that the only response could be a retaliation followed by a nuclear winter. Accordingly, no large-scale nuclear war will occur so long as this holds true.

You are so in love with nukes. Nukes are a 50 year old technology, or maybe even older than that. No one will be using nukes, no, the weapons are much much more destructive now. We have weapons that can extinct the entire planet of human life. You think we don't? If you were a military power and you wanted to be a super power, the only thing you have to do is develop an extinction weapon and suddenly you are a super power. That means all the super powers have these weapons. Right now it's mainly America but thats starting to change quickly due to the changing tides.




However, what we may see is one or two nuclear devices exploded in the next hundred or two hundred years, in a limited nuclear war.



That is completely unrealistic bullshit. Every new weapon ever built has been used in a war. Including nukes which were used on Japan. Think for a moment, when world war 3/4 starts, that will be it, the end. It might not even look like a war. Have you actually seen some of the weapons the US has? Nukes are not the latest weapons, and you'd have to be foolish to think that the next world war will be fought with nukes. Instead you'll have to deal with biological weapons, chemical weapons, or worse, genetic weapons which can basically wipe out the entire species. Then you have bacteria, viruses, nano technology, quantum weaponry, robotics and lasers, electro magnetic weaponry, it's just fucking ridiculous, and the human species is very fragile.

So basically, there is nothing to prevent extinction, there is NOTHING to prevent a world war, and nothing to prevent groups of individuals from battling for the remaining natural resources of the world, or for land, or whatever. So you see, there is no security anymore, theres just a lot of weapons, and more being created every day, like a huge powder keg waiting to explode.



China doesn't have a suicide wish. Neither does India or France or England or even Israel.


China is a country, maybe most Chinese people don't, but only a few make the decisions. We could say that about any country. The USA does not have a death wish either, but that won't stop us from putting nukes in space. Just like it won't stop China from shooting missles into space, and just like it won't stop Iran from building nukes, or North Korea. So you don't seem to understand, it's not about what the majority of any country decides, it's about what the rulers decide, and if the rulers decide it's time to end the world, the world will end, PERIOD. This means if our President, or another President, or groups of Presidents and leaders decide to push the button, thats it, we go extinct. Once it's started it cannot stop.



I agree, definitely. All the races are of value in their own sphere. Accordingly, I would not want any of them to be annihilated, anymore than I would want them to all intermingle and lose all their individual strengths.

Prince James, you do not want any of the races to be annialated, but what you do not understand is that some people are religious zealots, and these extremists exist on both sides. While the majority of the people of earth are moderate, even the majority of racist people are simply seperatists, you do have people who literally hate the existance of others. In this case, it becomes a religious war. It's kind of like the problem between Jews and Muslims in the middle east, if that becomes a religious war, you could have both sides calling for the annihiation of each side, and if both sides have extremists leaders who religiously believe in stuff, they might actually push the button and end the world.

Think about it, some people actually believe that Jesus is going to come back and save the world, and some people believe in aliens, and angels, and some people believe that by commiting suicide you'll go to heaven and get virgins. These are the religious, and while someone like you, a rational individual, might think twice about pushing the button, for a religious person, if God told them to push the button, absolutely nothing you, I, or anyone could ever say could talk them out of it. Just like if God tells a terrorist to commit suicide ins ome holywar, absolutely nothing anyone says can talk them out of it because these people are 100% sure that there is an afterlife and 100% sure in their faith. This is why holywars are the worst kinds of wars, because they are completely unwinnable, and everyone knows it. You can ask any military leader and they will tell you how difficult a holywar is to win.




I don't think that there will be a time where any individual will likely be able to fullfil this imperative for "extinction of all other races", though. This seems unlikely, owing to both the difficulty of this task, and the necessary resistance this would engender in the world populace. Moreover, without nuclear or some other massively destructive weapon, it is not likely to happen.

The weapons do exist. Most of the weapons, if you really want to know, you can learn about just by surfing the net and buying some science journals. It's not just the USA that has extinction weapons either. That's the point, there are weapons that could literally wipe humans off the face of the earth, that are so ridiculously scary that they'd make HIV look like a minor cold. You have weapons which could spread through the air in a matter of months and extinct the species, and you have weapons which can literally microwave or laser entire sections of the earth from space somewhere. The weapons will eventually become so advanced once we have unlimited energy, that we'll have the ability to actually melt cities from space with lasers. It will be a death ray, or cosmic ray, and yes if it's possible to build it will be built, and if it's built, someone will come along who will use it.

Humans are not always rational, and there are humans who want to see humanity wiped out, period. Just because you don't, it does not change the fact that some people do. Some people literally want the end of the world, for whatever reason. There was a cult in Japan, I forget the name, but they gassed the train in Japan because they wanted to bring about the end of the world. You also had the cult heavens gate, that commited suicide and believed in Aliens. So you see, religion, in specific, certain individuals who are religious, are religious in the sort of way that somehow makes death desireable to their followers. I don't really understand it myself because it's not rational, but true believers are like that. This is why holy war is so scary.

Spuriousmonkey:


I know it is a very difficult concept to understand for people like you, but science has certain standards that need to be met before you can claim things. It's not equal to having an opinion on things. Or seeing the obvious. Or using common sense.

Oh yes, this is very true. But you seem to forget that idealogical, political, and ethical qualms based on shaky premises are also barriers to scientific knowledge. As is putting on blinders and going "lalalalalala, I don't believe in science, lalalalalala".

So yes, I'd take off the shades, remove the fingers out of your ears, and close your mouth whilst ceasing making noise. Then I'd read a modern book on the subject of genetics, race, population, intelligence, and various other things!

I know that science can enlighten you, too.

TimeTraveler:


No Prince James, it is not YOU who is developing clean technology, because you don't even have the sort of beliefs that would lead anyone to take you seriously when you pretend to support it. Yeah some people want to protect the earth, but what have you done to protect your own species? You spend so much time spreading hatred towards your fellow humans, that I cannot take that comment seriously.

What have I done personally? For one, I don't consider myself an exceptionally wasteful person. In fact, I even have that urban "take public transportation for the most part" deal. I don't even own a car.

However, as regards other aspects of our species, I'd say that as a defender of you know, anti-savagery I'd be looking out for our future. Considering the nutjobs out there that are going to drag us all down into the muck of a second dark age...


Humans are the threat. Don't you understand that humans want to end humans as quickly as possible? How many people have to suffer before you see reality? Are you living in some kinda matrix? How do you treat your fellow humans? If you hate your fellow humans, how exactly can you expect anyone to believe you care about the species when you hate?

Actually, I hate very few people personally. I hate evil and savagery as generalized things, though.

And humanity is hardly at a point where it can hurt itself fatally.


If you hate humans, fuck em, right? Chug on. What difference does it make to you what happens to the unborn when you dont' even care about the born?

I would say very few have such a callous disregard of life.


You are so in love with nukes. Nukes are a 50 year old technology, or maybe even older than that. No one will be using nukes, no, the weapons are much much more destructive now. We have weapons that can extinct the entire planet of human life. You think we don't? If you were a military power and you wanted to be a super power, the only thing you have to do is develop an extinction weapon and suddenly you are a super power. That means all the super powers have these weapons. Right now it's mainly America but thats starting to change quickly due to the changing tides.

What sort of weapons are these?

Seriously: What?

Also, you do realize that a weapon that ends all life is never useful, yes?


That is completely unrealistic bullshit. Every new weapon ever built has been used in a war. Including nukes which were used on Japan. Think for a moment, when world war 3/4 starts, that will be it, the end. It might not even look like a war. Have you actually seen some of the weapons the US has? Nukes are not the latest weapons, and you'd have to be foolish to think that the next world war will be fought with nukes. Instead you'll have to deal with biological weapons, chemical weapons, or worse, genetic weapons which can basically wipe out the entire species. Then you have bacteria, viruses, nano technology, quantum weaponry, robotics and lasers, electro magnetic weaponry, it's just fucking ridiculous, and the human species is very fragile.


Biological weapons are hardly a threat. Biological weapons are not infectious enough to do anything on large scales. Nor are chemical weapons, which completely and utterly evapourate within minutes of exploding.

Genetic weapons not only do not exist, they could never do anything you say.

Nanobots are unlikely to ever be weaponized. Attacking something from the atomic level is a piss poor way to deal with things, as it takes years and years. They could also be stopped by electromagnetic pulses.

Quantum weapons? What? There is no quantum property that can be used for a weapon. What are you talking about?

Lasers take way too much power and can be deflected through various surfaces. They will be best at defensive weapons. Shooting down artillery shells and missiles.

Electromagnetic weaponry doesn't do anything to human tissues.

If you have any solid proof of these weapons, show me.


China is a country, maybe most Chinese people don't, but only a few make the decisions. We could say that about any country. The USA does not have a death wish either, but that won't stop us from putting nukes in space. Just like it won't stop China from shooting missles into space, and just like it won't stop Iran from building nukes, or North Korea. So you don't seem to understand, it's not about what the majority of any country decides, it's about what the rulers decide, and if the rulers decide it's time to end the world, the world will end, PERIOD. This means if our President, or another President, or groups of Presidents and leaders decide to push the button, thats it, we go extinct. Once it's started it cannot stop.

That is hardly likely to happen. Moreover, a single nuke won't end things - which most countries are only capable of fielding. Or even a few dozen small nukes.

You need a large scale, Cold War, nuclear holocaust to end human life, and even then, the chance of survival is pretty high, although in greatly diminished numbers.


Prince James, you do not want any of the races to be annialated, but what you do not understand is that some people are religious zealots, and these extremists exist on both sides. While the majority of the people of earth are moderate, even the majority of racist people are simply seperatists, you do have people who literally hate the existance of others. In this case, it becomes a religious war. It's kind of like the problem between Jews and Muslims in the middle east, if that becomes a religious war, you could have both sides calling for the annihiation of each side, and if both sides have extremists leaders who religiously believe in stuff, they might actually push the button and end the world.

Not the world. Mostly their countries. And mostly through conventional means.

We've lost huge population centres through war before. It will happen again. We'll be fine.

What have I done personally? For one, I don't consider myself an exceptionally wasteful person. In fact, I even have that urban "take public transportation for the most part" deal. I don't even own a car.

You use electricity, city services (water, sewer), maybe natural gas, grocery stores, sundry stores, clothing, private entertainment services, ....many other similar services. All of which contribute to waste and pollution of all kinds. You are not without sin, Prince James.


I would say very few have such a callous disregard of life.

Have you ever watched a newcast or heard about how a "peaceful" demonstration turned into a violent riot? ...just some nice peaceful without a "callous disregard for life" suddenly became just exactly that, didn't they?


Genetic weapons not only do not exist, they could never do anything you say.

The cave men probably said the same thing about the new stone spearhead that one cave man had invented!

But didn't they say the same things about airplanes ...how they'd never be a major factor in wars? Then when bombs were invented and dropped from airplanes, didn't probably say that planes could never carry a bomb big enough to actually do much damage?


And humanity is hardly at a point where it can hurt itself fatally.

You need to do some reading/studying about the shortage of fresh, potable water supplies in the world. Almost every nation on Earth today has major problems finding enough fresh, potable water for its citizens. And yet we keep making more babies ...by the millions! And worse, we keep trying to extend the lives of old farts!

Prince James, I'd seriously suggest that you take a long, hard look at the pessimistic side of the argument. It ain't pretty when you consider it in a rational, objective way.

Baron Max