Know thy enemy?


http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/Islam/Islam.html

Just one of the many links I have explored lately while researching the subject.

Uhm, I was hoping to see some contributions here...more links.

Here's some info on the seeking converts front


http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/islam/a031599.htm

hmm, a curious article. Well, from what I have read thus far, it is a more simplistic religion; but even so, it is not without ugly mutation. Thank you for the link. I was hoping to get into more detailed examination.

Originally posted by Bowser
Well, from what I have read thus far, it is a more simplistic religionAs far as I know, it is simple; 1 holy book ( the Quran), 1 statement ("there is one god......& Muhammad is his prophet"), 5 rules (the Pillars of Islam), the prophet's example (Hadith) & Muslim law ( the Sharia).


I was hoping to get into more detailed examination. I'll look for more links, but I hope you realize, every one comes with a bias? Whether they are muslims, atheists, historians, Christians or Hindus. Just in case you get wildly contradicting views.:D

JAHANNEM, OUTER DARKNESS—The hijackers who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon expressed confusion and surprise Monday to find themselves in the lowest plane of Na'ar, Islam's Hell.



Mohammed Atta and Ahmed al-Haznawi.
"I was promised I would spend eternity in Paradise, being fed honeyed cakes by 67 virgins in a tree-lined garden, if only I would fly the airplane into one of the Twin Towers," said Mohammed Atta, one of the hijackers of American Airlines Flight 11, between attempts to vomit up the wasps, hornets, and live coals infesting his stomach. "But instead, I am fed the boiling feces of traitors by malicious, laughing Ifrit. Is this to be my reward for destroying the enemies of my faith?"




The rest of Atta's words turned to raw-throated shrieks, as a tusked, asp-tongued demon burst his eyeballs and drank the fluid that ran down his face.

According to Hell sources, the 19 eternally damned terrorists have struggled to understand why they have been subjected to soul-withering, infernal torture ever since their Sept. 11 arrival.

"There was a tumultuous conflagration of burning steel and fuel at our gates, and from it stepped forth these hijackers, the blessed name of the Lord already turning to molten brass on their accursed lips," said Iblis The Thrice-Damned, the cacodemon charged with conscripting new arrivals into the ranks of the forgotten. "Indeed, I do not know what they were expecting, but they certainly didn't seem prepared to be skewered from eye socket to bunghole and then placed on a spit so that their flesh could be roasted by the searing gale of flatus which issues forth from the haunches of Asmoday."

"Which is strange when you consider the evil with which they ended their lives and those of so many others," added Iblis, absentmindedly twisting the limbs of hijacker Abdul Aziz Alomari into unspeakably obscene shapes.

"I was told that these Americans were enemies of the one true religion, and that Heaven would be my reward for my noble sacrifice," said Alomari, moments before his jaw was sheared away by faceless homunculi. "But now I am forced to suckle from the 16 poisoned leathern teats of Gophahmet, Whore of Betrayal, until I burst from an unwholesome engorgement of curdled bile. This must be some sort of terrible mistake."

Exacerbating the terrorists' tortures, which include being hollowed out and used as prophylactics by thorn-cocked Gulbuth The Rampant, is the fact that they will be forced to endure such suffering in sight of the Paradise they were expecting.

"It might actually be the most painful thing we can do, to show these murderers the untold pleasures that would have awaited them in Paradise, if only they had lived pious lives," said Praxitas, Duke of Those Willingly Led Astray. "I mean, it's tough enough being forced through a wire screen by the callused palms of Halcorym and then having your entrails wound onto a stick and fed to the toothless, foul-breathed swine of Gehenna. But to endure that while watching the righteous drink from a river of wine? That can't be fun."

Underworld officials said they have not yet decided on a permanent punishment for the terrorists.

"Eventually, we'll settle on an eternal and unending task for them," said Lord Androalphus, High Praetor of Excruciations. "But for now, everyone down here wants a crack at them. The legions of fang-wombed hags will take their pleasure on their shattered carcasses for most of this afternoon. Tomorrow, their flesh will be melted from their bones like wax in the burning embrace of the Mother of Cowards. The day after that, they'll be sodomized by the Fallen and their bowels shredded by a demonic ejaculate of burning sand. Then, on Sunday, Satan gets them all day. I can't even imagine what he's got cooked up for them."

I found these some where on here but can not find them now so here you are.
http://www.secularislam.org/call.htm
http://www.secularislam.org/guide/mirza.htm
http://www.secularislam.org/wtc2.htm

Full text of the document presented by Blair to the House of Commons re. OSAMA BIN LADEN & AL QAE'DA:

http://www.ain-al-yaqeen.com/issues/20011012/feat8en.htm

Interesting reading.

Hi odin,

I've been to those pages and they are a bit tricky. I don't recommend trying to email the page either.

Try shortening the url to: http://www.secularislam.org

(no promises, but it worked for me. :) )

Once there, you might give this article a go-over.

"A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins"


An excerpt:

"We propose a solution.
We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.
We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace."

(Apologies for forgetting to check the author's name.)


Regards,


Counterbalance

I think someone is doing a denial of service on those links I put up as I have been able to go straight there but not now.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
its working again now.
:) :)

I saw some very interesting remarks by some gentleman in some threads. Very interesting that people try to look fpr all the negetive links or specialy search for ones. I have been surfing web for a while for this religion, What I undersatand that 1 .2 billion muslim do not share the thoughts of OBL or his companions. Radical groups are probably less then 1% of world muslim populations. And now we want to believe them instead of 1.2 billion Muslims? I don't understand the logic here. Why do we want to believe less then 1 % people and ignored the rest of them?If you add all of them up they will not even be 100,000. I hope these link below help.

http://www.islamiccity.org/

http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/

Fortunately, Markx, not all give credence to the belief that the fundamentalist Muslims speak for all Muslims. You bring up a good point. The extremists of Islam are not the larger portion of the whole.

The article via the link that odin and I have posted provides some evidence of this. Perhaps you'll find it encouraging. There are also more moderate Muslims speaking up and speaking out against their radical Muslim brothers, and in defense of their own non-terroristic views. They are not perhaps shouting as loud as anti-America protesters are, for example. But they are speaking far and wide.

No harm in having hope.


Counterbalance

Well, from what I have read thus far, it is a more simplistic religion


I was hoping to get into more detailed examination.

If you are really willing to learn about islam refer to Qur'an itself, study it,and then pond over it without bias.There are many addresses that may misguide the naive.This web address may also help(but the final measure is only Qur'an):
www.beconvinced.com

______________________________________
"Verily,this Qur'an guides to that which is most just and right and gives glad tidings to the believers,who work deeds of righteousness,that they shall have a great reward " Qur'an

http://www.islamweb.net/english/islam_and_thewest/index.html

http://www.light-of-life.com/

http://www.aliasoft.com/iweb_bbs/?read=2963

Originally posted by chuuush

If you are really willing to learn about islam refer to Qur'an itself, study it,and then pond over it without bias.There are many addresses that may misguide the naive.This web address may also help(but the final measure is only Qur'an):
www.beconvinced.com
______________________________________
"Verily,this Qur'an guides to that which is most just and right and gives glad tidings to the believers,who work deeds of righteousness,that they shall have a great reward " Qur'an

Yes, but how do you know it's all true? Many people say they are prophets, Mormons say their's lives today, why should anyone believe one over the other? How do you judge 'naive' and 'misguided'? And why should we trust your point of view as opposed to someone else's? Is there one "truth", "many truths" or none? Are you willing to judge your faith by the same standards you hold other ones to?

Fair questions, Randolfo. (And one's that have needed truthful answers for a very long time. )

Any belief supported primarily by "faith" is begging to be questioned.

Hmm...searchable koran:

http://www.stg.brown.edu/webs/quran_browser/pqeasy.shtml

Originally posted by Counterbalance
Fair questions, Randolfo. (And one's that have needed truthful answers for a very long time. )

Any belief supported primarily by "faith" is begging to be questioned.

At 46 years of age, I am of the opinion that everyone of us lives by faith; that our beliefs are true, that our culture & parents have taught us 'truth'. Whether we believe it or not, our cultures have brainwashed us into believing their 'truth'. It has , I think, nothing to do with conspiracies, more to do with learning, history, peer pressure & assumptions of what is real, true, facts, etc..

What is the true essence of 'humanity'? How do we judge our lives, values, beliefs, country, our 'being'? Why should we 'be convinced' that anyone else's beliefs are more valid than another? Let's see, a billion Muslims, a billion Catholics, a billion Hindus, a billion Confucians, a billion of every thing else? Who is right? I see 120+ pathetic governments, countless -isms & no real answer to what is really universally true for everyone. I'm hoping that this event, 9-11, is a turning point in our planet's history. Where people from all parts of the globe, shocked by the immensity, the barbarity of this tragedy, became united to put flowers, tears, candles, for people killed so far away, in a country, that to Americans, is the only Country that they hold real, all others are so, so far away, their problems, so, so hard to fix. Yes, I know we support all sorts of tyrants, evil people & evil governments, we are merchants of death to many, and the sellers of bright & pretty trinkets & frivolous stuff to many? Do our accusers have a better record? Are their hands pure & clean from the blood of the innocent? Are they 'righteous? Are we worst than any other country for supporting those who we think will benefit us? Does any other people, country have pure intentions, pure motives, honest dealings with all it's partners, both weak & strong? I don't think so!!! We are no better or worst than any other country. Name one country or empire that rose to power, without bloodshed? Without force of some kind? Without cheating the weak or powerless? Let's see you history buffs? Can you find anyone? If there is one, then, as Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone".
If our response is as barbaric as the terrorists, then we are no better than them, I hope for the best, for all concerned.

Anyway, here is a letter to the editor from my hometown's paper, that in a way, sort of says the same thing.
http://www.fresnobee.com/

Faith, not fact
Wayne Steffen, Fresno (Published Wednesday, October, 24, 2001 3:53AM)
I have been asked many times since Sept. 11 -- sometimes sincerely and sometimes with a sneer -- how I can belong to a peace church and oppose military action after a direct assault on the country I love.
Beyond saying that there are options other than military, such as the World Court, that we have not properly explored and that military action alone never led to lasting peace, I must with great difficulty admit I act on faith. I am a Mennonite. My church has a Confession of Faith, not a Confession of The Complete Answer to Everything.
But those who support military action act just as much on faith as those of us who oppose it. Faith, not knowledge, leads them to believe that:
We have no choice but to attack. Military action can remove those who caused the horrors of Sept. 11.
If those few people are removed, the problem will go away and victory can be declared.
We will not repeat the disaster that the United States experienced in Vietnam and that the Soviet Union already went through in Afghanistan.
Any government we might help topple the Taliban will be more stable, just to its people and friendly to us than the one it replaces.
The ends will justify the suffering and death that is the means of military action.
God bless humanity.

There are many links out there but I say for final and detail info one can and only can get indepth detail off of Quran. I just got my english copy. And will read and give some details soon. So far What I read is very simple but it is a big Book.

On a side note, Did any one search one th Quran and miracles. If you didn't so far please do I find some very very interesting information and there is whole book written by DR Keith L Moore regarding Embroylogy and Quran. I am finding lots of thing very interesting. Well I hope to see some more books thou. If any one know any thing please respond.
thank you

This is a good read...

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm

I give Chagur partial credit because I found the above while following his PBS link. Thanks.

Thanks for the 'partial' ... and, you're welcome.

It is very good. I'm bummed because I can't get it to load today. I wanted to share it with a friend. Maybe the site is being hit hard today. Oh well, maybe later...

Subject: Fw: just for you
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:09:44 -0800

So Bin Laden gives Bush a call. Tells him "I had a dream. And in this dream all of the buildings in New York have
been reduced to rubble and on top of each flies a banner saying 'We love Osama'".

"Well that's odd," Bush replies, "because I too had a dream. In it all of Afghanistan is thriving and happy, crops
flourishing in the fields, women and men and children at joyous play, and on top of every strong new house flies a
banner."

"And what does each banner say?" Bin Laden asks.

"I don't know," Bush replies, "I can't read Hebrew."

Found an interesting article in an other post by Kmguru, here's the link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm