Since there is a "Ban Smoking"... I was wondering... legalize :m:?
At what age?
and Why?

and why not?

Yes it should be legalized, for any age with minors requiring adult consent, because its essentially harmless.

Same laws as alcohol since it isn't really that bad unless you become addicted (which isn't as easy as alcohol.)

With the pot today, on average, weaker than before in it's potency it doesn't sound harmless to legalize but who are we kidding...it will be abused just like every painkiller out there.

Legalize it or not people will still befriend Mary Jane in great numbers.

It should be legalized, the age-laws should be like those of alcohol or smoking. That means 16 years.

I would really like legal :m:, I don´t always want to waste some hours crossing the border to the Netherlands to get it legally. :D

lol, you're lucky then, you live close. And hey.... the legal-alcohol age in Germany is 16?

"With the pot today, on average, weaker than before in it's potency"
Not true, modern techniques have increased the potency, and thus decreased the possible health issues implicit in having to use larger quantities. Also, there are vaporizers available that do not burn it, also decreasing possible health problems.

I say legalise it. It isnt more dangerous that legal drugs such as alcohol and tobacco.

@ jadedflower
Yeah it is, at least for beer, wine and such things. If you are 18 you can drink everythink you want.
Also, the laws for drugs are somewhat strange here. It is legal to take drugs, but illeagal to sell or buy it.

lol, here it's the same thing. You can take drugs, and carry with you up to two individual doses, but not more. It's illegal to sell or buy.

In the case of alcohol: at 16 you can go anywhere, drink anything...
(even though people start at about 11)

Yeah, same problem here, sex, drugs, alcohol and smoking, many people start at about 11 or 12 years. I do not really like this development because many are addicted when they are about 14 or 15. (Or pregnant) Who knows where this will end :confused:

The death of society as we know it... :rolleyes:

That could be a good thing, Nelson.

Yes it should be legalized, for any age with minors requiring adult consent, because its essentially harmless.
Harmless, yeah sort of, but the point is WHY. It doesn't actually DO anything special. There's no reason to have it at all. I'm aware its too late now but it's hardly providing something good, even if not bad.

Rainbow Princess -

The situation changes entirely when pot is legal because then we can afford to eat it, thereby bringing out its rather impressive qualities.

Additionally ... why not? Two points about humanity:

• As soon as a human being can stand, and often in the process of learning to walk, a child learns to spin around in order to upset his or her equilibrium - essentially get high.
• As long as human beings have civilized, methods of intoxication have been near the forefront of necessity. Let's get this straight: Egyptians may have had beer, but ... no. I wouldn't drink it. On the other hand, I might have then. WIne? Okay. But ask a connoisseur about Isla Scotch whiskey and listen to the fine technical difference between Isla and something else. And then ask yourself--humanity had time to figure this out? Some grain, some water, and some peat ... voila! It seems so ... so technically obvious, doesn't it?

Larger point being: getting high has always been a human priority.

Just a question ... does the current generation of children and youth ever encounter a mimeograph page these days? Seriously--ditto pages, El Markos ... if we weren't supposed to sniff it, we tried. That's usually how we learned about drugs in the first place, when your parents explained to you why you shouldn't be inhalingj correction fluid. They eventually found (too late, of course) that if they didn't say anything about it, we didn't notice. (Seriously ... our area was isolated on the Redi-Whip hits. Even with the number of students we fed to Washington State University from our area, I can still remember the local idiot trying to explain to us how to get high from whipped cream cans.)

Getting high ... it's damn near among human necessity.

Anyway, click here for one of my favorite quotes about drugs, ever (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/history/pygmies.htm).

Harmless, yeah sort of, but the point is WHY. It doesn't actually DO anything special. There's no reason to have it at all. I'm aware its too late now but it's hardly providing something good, even if not bad.

One word: Jazz

That could be a good thing, Nelson.
I love when people call me by my name... :D

Btw, my most recent new nickname is Nelly. "Funnily" enough, I found out that Nelly is actually a girl's nickname in Scotland. It's the nickname for Helen. Don't ask me why, it just is! :D

They are crazy, those Scotish... :D

Anyways... I gues it would be good for the planet, eh?

They are crazy, those Scotish...
Hey, its 'Scottish' and yes, yes we are crazy.

Hey, its 'Scottish' and yes, yes we are crazy.
Oh! Right... I'm sorry I forgot a "t" :bugeye:
But anyways... :D
Are ya Scottish? I should have known that! :D

Harmless, yeah sort of, but the point is WHY. It doesn't actually DO anything special. There's no reason to have it at all. I'm aware its too late now but it's hardly providing something good, even if not bad.
It promotes relaxation, alleviates boredom, can enhance one's perception of music, and can promote creativity. In addition it also has a huge number of medical applications.
Even if it didn't do anything special, thats hardly grounds for making something illegal.

Since there is a "Ban Smoking"... I was wondering... legalize :m:?
absolutely.


At what age?
21 - 18 is really pushing it and 21 seems to work for alcohol.


and Why?
Why:
Marijuana is a psychoactive drug. It changes the brain chemestry. Some see this as a bad thing. I think it is exactly what human consciousness needs right now. Those that don't want to smoke marijuana, won't. But those that do see the potential should be allowed to explore their minds, without being labled a criminal or deviant.

Today, I heard the excuse "There isn't enough information on marijuana and its effects." I thought to myself, this is wrong. We do have enough information. This substance has been used for thousands of years. There is plenty of information. People are just too lazy to put forth the effort to educate themselves on marijuana - part apathy, part refusal to learn a method contradictory to one's own.

Check out:
www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis
for a reality check.
:m:

What about temporary short-term memory loss?
All my friends suffer from that. I mean the rrreeeeaaalll "pot heads" - the Sublime "two joints" type of people (if you know what I mean)

One thing that M does, is that it can give certain types of people (thinkers, intellectuals, artists) deep insights into just about anything; this capacity in its properties, tends to nurture rebelliousness, cynisism and feelings of most 'normal' things being too futile to enjoy or pursue. This is one of the greatest reasons that governments are loath to legalise it... probably.

When you´re high, you can paint really cool pictures. Alas, the texts I tried to write were somewhat strange and not well structured. Perhaps I should write after I got the insights and the effects wear off.

Decriminalise it.

Oh! Is "marijuana" Cannabis Sativa!?!?!?
Cool!! In Brasil we call it "maconha" :D :D :D

Btw, the main reason why Cannabis is illegal is Brasil is, in fact, because it causes too many troubles. Reason is that we have gang-like people selling it even to teenagers and even children. Then everyone gets addicted to it and keep paying the gangs more and more money, which is used to buy more weapons, which in turn raises the criminality. That's why it is so illegal to sell or buy drugs in Brasil, and that's probably why there are laws in your countries that don't allow you to sell or buy it!

Also, one thing to keep in mind is that first nations people used to use marijuana for spiritual purposes. But they used it responsibly. The trouble only begins when you are not responsible, or when you are too weak and get addicted to it. Also, if you suffer from depression, it is far more likely that you will get addicted. The same applies to alchohol.

One thing that M does, is that it can give certain types of people (thinkers, intellectuals, artists) deep insights into just about anything; this capacity in its properties, tends to nurture rebelliousness, cynisism and feelings of most 'normal' things being too futile to enjoy or pursue. This is one of the greatest reasons that governments are loath to legalise it... probably.
Reason why first nations called it "spiritual"... :D

Cheers :m: :D

Reason is that we have gang-like people selling it even to teenagers and even children. Then everyone gets addicted to it and keep paying the gangs more and more money, which is used to buy more weapons, which in turn raises the criminality. That's why it is so illegal to sell or buy drugs in Brasil, and that's probably why there are laws in your countries that don't allow you to sell or buy it!

Don't you see, it is like the prohibition era in the 1920's, when alcohol was illegal in the US. The mafia got into the alcohol business, and crime associated with this business increased. When drugs are outlawed, outlaws get into the drug business. None of this would happen if you could just grow your own. Also, pot is not physically addictive like opiates.

As to the memory loss issue, um, ...what were we talking about again?

I still say legalize it. I mean Wtf is the use of this prohibition? I could without the slightest problem get about 30 or 40 kilos of :m: within a days time.
And it is just as bad as alcohol, which alas is legal. Somewhat bigot morals.

What about temporary short-term memory loss?
All my friends suffer from that. I mean the rrreeeeaaalll "pot heads" - the Sublime "two joints" type of people (if you know what I mean)

Short term memory loss? Who cares?!?!? It's my memory. I'm not forgetting how to walk or anything like that. So what if I can't recall a number you told me ten minutes ago or the name of that guy who played for the red sox but got traded?
Besides, I've found my long term memory has improved quite well since I became a rrreeeeaaalll pot head. I see marijuana as a sort of filter for incoming information. Most of it doesn't make it past the short term memory but what does make it past, sticks permenantly and is usually much more important and profound than what happened on "Friends" last night.

:m:

202-395-6700

That's the phone number for John P Walters, our friendly neighborhood drug czar who is currently touring the country (on tax payers' dollars) promoting prohibition in states such as my own (nevada) which are placing the legalization debate on their ballots.

call it.
harrass him.
take back a bit of freedom.

I do not think it is the governments business to regulate my private behavior unless I harm someone without their consent. This means that I have to protect everyone else's right to the same consideration. Leave the stoners alone and tax pot just like cigarettes.

I think the politicians would have a shock if everyone that uses pot on a regular basis were to come out and have an organised demonstration against the prohibition. The likely result would at least be decriminalisation.
Lets face it, if they were to tax pot just the same as cigarettes people would grow it and distribute it illegally to avoid tax. That wouldnt be very cool at all.


Oh! Right... I'm sorry I forgot a "t" But anyways... Are ya Scottish? I should have known that!
Yes indeed, but soon, soon Ill be living in Italy as Scotland isnt too cool anymore.

Forgive me if I missed a reference in my quick scroll of the whole thread, but has anyone raised the issue of constitutionality? (This is strictly a U.S. issue.)

The only way the federal government could enforce laws against alcohol was to get the state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing it. Otherwise the feds simply do not have the authority to interfere with consenting adults' choices about what to put in their bodies. And it took a little over ten years for everyone to realize that Prohibition made the country worse than any amount of alcohol consumption. And I do mean everyone. It was the legislature of Utah the "conservative Mormon state" that cast the final vote repealing prohibition. A Mormon state legislator made an impassioned speech saying how evil he thought alcohol was and how it was every good Christian's duty to tell people not to drink it, but admitting that Prohibition was far worse.

Nothing has changed. The federal government still does not have the legitimate power to regulate what consenting adults put in their bodies. I guess what has changed is that Americans have become too stupid to remember that we have a Constitution.

Ganja has been used in India for centuries, especially in North India.
Ganja was the drug of choice for the poor man, and it was widely smoked.
Bhang, is a drink prepared by mixing the decoction of ganja with sweetened milk. Bhang was also quite popular.
Charas, is the most potent and also the most expensive.
Use of the drug decreased in British India. The british viewed ganja as a mind altering drug that prompted insanity in the 'natives'.

As far as legalising ganja goes, one party will always advocate it's legalisation on the grounds that it's effects are no more potent than those of alcohol. The other party opposes it's legalisation on the grounds that it's a mind altering drug, that's highly detrimental to a person's well being. Unfortunately, the latter constitute the people in power.

Also, pot is not physically addictive like opiates.

What are you talking about!? IN Brasil there are hundreds if not thousands of teenagers addicted to marijuana! It IS highly addictive!

Pish posh.

If you define addiction as physiological dependence, i.e., if you don't get it you get sick from withdrawal (such as heroin) then marijuana is NOT addictive. You can stop anytime you like and the worst symptoms of stopping are missing your good friend Bob Green who you really like to have around. After a couple of days spent metabolizing the last puff you had you don't miss your friend Bob so much (though you might feel like driving right across town just to see him, of course).

If addiction is defined as psychological dependence, i.e., if you don't get it you get really pissed off and act in ways you wouldn't usually act to acquire more puff, then marijuana might be slightly addictive. You can stop any time you like but for the first couple of days afterwards you really, really feel like driving right across town to see your good friend Bob again. But after a little while it's just your mind reminding you that you love a puff, your body is done with it, and you become more normally wakeful and don't really miss it like a tobacco smoker would miss his cigarette (which is a VERY STRONG craving indeed despite tobacco taking only 4 days to metabolize, cravings can persist for years and years).

Medically, marijuana is not addictive.

:m: Peace.

Just because they like it does not mean they are addicted. You need to do some research on the topic.

Marijuana produces no withdrawal symptoms no matter how heavy it is used. It is habit forming (psychologically addictive), but not physically addictive. The majority of people who quit marijuana don't even have to think twice about it. Comparing marijuana to addictive drugs is really quite silly.
For a drug to be physically addictive, it must be reinforcing, produce withdrawal symptoms, and produce tolerance. Marijuana is reinforcing, because it feels good, but it does not do the other two things. Caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are all physically addictive.

From www.erowid.com

as far as i know, it's not addictive. but most ganja sold in the US today is laced with something not so benign. way stronger than the stuff our parents smoked. i'm all for prescribing pure pharmaceutical grade cannabis for medical use. but legalizing it cause the whiny kids on the street want to smoke up without risking a misdemeanor on their record...lame. it should be a regulated drug like anything else you get from a pharmacy. it's illegal to take your friend's prescribed vicodin, which IS addictive, but at least you can get a prescription for it if you need it.

Are all of us here making the distinction between Weed and Hash? Cause many of the people I know, don't.

We, in Brasil, consider it addictive. We have clinics to help people getting through it and stop being addicted to it. They stay there sometimes for years and, often, they are unable to get over it. Does that sound addictive enough? :bugeye: :eek:

Well, in truth, it makes your Brasilian "addicts" sound weak of spirit.
If not, then they are smoking laced weed - and that is something else.

:m: Peace.

No. It's not the pot, its the people. I mean that with some people, they can't stop eating, or they starve themselves, and its not the fault of the food, its a psychological disorder. Some people self-medicate because their condition is not widely know to science, like in the case of milder forms of autism or bi-polar. In some US states now, they are recognizing the usefulness of M as medicine, and giving perscriptions to people who once faced jail terms and "treatment" as addicts. For some people sex is a real problem, but should we outlaw sex? The thing that makes some drugs truly dangerous is that they are physically addictive. That means that an addict would do anything to get it, sell themselves, steal, anything; as William Burroughs once said- Would you? yes, you would. Addicts will do almost anything because they will get seriously ill if they do not get their drug. If you don't get pot, the worst that can happen is you are not happy, or you get a little grumpy, nothing serious. Enough to motivate you to go out and get more, but its not a life or death thing like with opiates, and you cannot overdose.

No. It's not the pot, its the people.
Oh! So brasilians are susceptible to pot, but not anyone else. Very interesting... :rolleyes: Maybe we are from another planet?


The thing that makes some drugs truly dangerous is that they are physically addictive. That means that an addict would do anything to get it, sell themselves, steal, anything;
Exactly what happens there... :rolleyes:

Are we talking about the same thing...? :rolleyes:

Apparently not. Several people have said that today's pot has additives that
might be addicting. As for regular old run-of-the-mill pakalolo: not addictive.

:m: Peace.

Marijuana is no more addictive than any other substance. However, you can become psychologically dependant on anything, including marijuana. It is quite common for marijuana smokers to smoke heavily for a while and then stop altogther for a while without giving it another thought. If someone were to use marijuana as a crutch to get them through other problems they have, being constantly high to avoid dealing with those issues, then their dependance on it could certainly seem like a chemical addiction, but in reality it is not the marijuana but the underlying problem that is causing the cravings.
I have heard of people who use it excesively for years, who when stuck without it get headaches or become irritable, but this is true also of caffeine.

oh, and its just not true that most pot is laced with anything. Some certainly is, but it shouldn't be a problem for you if you deal with responsible people(i.e. never buy it on the street or from strangers)

Here's the question we should be asking:

Can we even get away with legalizing pot?
Is it even possible for us to get off our collective stoned asses and do this once and for all?
Can we stop being apathetic?

If you aren't voting and/or actively changing the system we live in, you aren't doing your part.

I dont see why we cant get away with legalising it, the grow tobacco commercially and since marijuana grows just as easily, if not easier then I dont see how this can be a problem.
I dont think it is possible for stoners to collectively get up and do something about it, simply because if it was possible it would have happened already. There are even political parties calling for Legalisation but noone votes for them.
Im going to vote for the Legalise Cannabis Alliance in the up and coming general election, I fail to see what good it will do however.

"If you aren't voting and/or actively changing the system we live in, you aren't doing your part. "

The system is more than just the country's laws. There is an engrained taboo in many western countries, probably coming from puritanism, against any drug that expands conciousness. They have made an exception for alcohol, because they can't make it illegal, they tried, it is already too much a part of our culture. As the US hispanic population increases, and a corresponding cultural acceptance of pot, it will become legal, too.

I recommend "The Food of the Gods" by Terence McKenna, a radical history of drug use in human culture from the Paleolithic to the modern.

"Are all of us here making the distinction between Weed and Hash? Cause many of the people I know, don't."

Why make a distinction, its the same thing?

Hash is a block, brown... chemical filled.

Weed is a plant... it comes in plant form.

Not all hash is chemical filled. Filled with plastic bags yes, but not chemicals.

I really don't get the argument that its addictive in Brazil because they consider it addictive in Brazil, it makes as much sense as a condom machine in a nunnery.
Hash and Weed are not addictive, in any sense of the true meaning of the word, sure, if your that way inclined you could get psychologically addicted to it but that is the same as chocolate, boiled sweets or anything that is non-physical dependance forming. This is certainly no reason for still having it outlawed. As someone has already said and that site says so also.

What really annoys me though, people going to jail for distributing marijuana or growing it. They are doing no one any harm, They are not getting anyone addicted to anything. They merely broke a law that shouldn't even be. Sure, at most you could say that they are not paying tax but that is because the government just wants to continue on their merry road of denial. You can get up to 14 years in prison which must be against some sort of human right, if it isn't then it bloody well should be!

it's addictive only psycologically... "I could really do with one right now"... kinda thing.

Hemp is great in other stuff too...

"Hash is a block, brown... chemical filled.

Weed is a plant... it comes in plant form. "
...........

If by chemical, you mean THC, then yes. Technically, it is only composed of compressed resin glands of the plant. It is easier to transport, and thus, more common in Europe, where they get alot of bud from Afghanistan.

101 uses for hemp. (http://www.recipenet.org/health/articles/101_uses_hemp.htm)

Has anyone actually seen the 'Reefer Madness' video made by the health group that erowid talks about? Its alot of bull, its possibly the funniest thing you will ever watch to do with ganja.

hm... kay... well, I could counter that but wouldn't do much good. :p hehe "yes", "no", "yes", "no" :D

hell no, as soon as you get weed it sudenly won't be enough, And then what Cocaine, meth, mdma? :confused:

hell no, as soon as you get weed it sudenly won't be enough, And then what Cocaine, meth, mdma? :confused:

Typical "gateway theory" rhetoric with no basis in reality whatsoever. If you don't see the difference between cocaine, meth, and marijuana, you aren't educated on drugs and thusly, your opinion (i.e. your belief) is null and void.

www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis

First of all, I don't believe in all the "gateway drug" crap -- Marijuana is only a gateway drug statistically because kids have to make connections to illegal drug rings to obtain it.

That said, I think a lot of people go for marijuana mostly because it's illegal -- it's not a particularly potent drug -- it's effects aren't particularly strong or satisfying in reasonable doses, and diminish over time. The real appeal of marijuana is that it's a taboo -- it's an easy, popular way to rebel against "the establishment".

The problem with legalization is that if it's appeal is in its illegality, when it's made legal, the rebellious will go after some more potent drug that's still illegal. I'm not sure what the "civil rights" outlook is, nor do I particularly care, but from a practical viewpoint, it makes sense to have a relatively harmless illegal drug so that those who just want to go after *something* contraband can do so without doing any real damage.

I dont believe thats true coolsoldier. I think most people smoke it because they like the reefer goodness. To punish those who use it because some people just want to break the law is a kinda weird reason for keeping it illegal if this is indeed what you are saying.

First of, I think they should legalize every drug. Just keep the people informed about the consequences of their prospective us. Post the same warning on them as they do on sigarettes. Society will stabilize itself. So we would lose a few souls to drug abuse. So what still is less than the people we lose to: guns, pollution, traffic and dull tv shows...
And more people will be happy, new markets opening up and decriminalizing, and no more useless spending of the justice departements on this subject.

But as for pot,grass,weed, hash, thc-oil, cryonic-stuff ,space-cake and weed-tea.
It's quiet harmless, and the only reason I see why goverment wouldn't want to legalize it, is so they can keep their people in check through fear (look that way, so you wont see what were doing) and ofcourse all the cheap-economic products that can be made from hemp. Big bussiness wouldn't like that now.

The real appeal of marijuana is that it's a taboo
"Sacred cows make the tastiest burgers" - Abbie Hoffman


The problem with legalization is that if it's appeal is in its illegality, when it's made legal, the rebellious will go after some more potent drug that's still illegal. I'm not sure what the "civil rights" outlook is, nor do I particularly care, but from a practical viewpoint, it makes sense to have a relatively harmless illegal drug so that those who just want to go after *something* contraband can do so without doing any real damage.
I could agree with you up to a point. If this were actually the angle the government is taking, it would make sense. Unfortunately, the U.S. government does not see cannabis as a benign or even semi-harmless substance. It is hell-bent on destroying cannabis and those that use it. Take a look at the salaries of some of the people (http://www.greensborolibrary.org/reference/govdir_tab.htm) that "run" our country and remind me again why I can't have a plant... :m:

Currently, without a doubt, the laws do more damage than good. Prohibition is not stopping the use of cannabis. People are using it and it is helping them. It may not be for you, it may not be what you want anything to do with, but some people can use it to better our society. Hell, the computer you are using came out of drug use, not to mention almost every good movie, work of art, and song in the last 50 years.

Why turn people that are beneficial to our society into criminals because they try to think outside the box?

Can someone please explain to me why Oxycontin is legal, but pot isn't?

Or, for that matter, why Viagra is legal, when it's already killed more people than pot?

Can someone please explain to me why Oxycontin is legal, but pot isn't?

Or, for that matter, why Viagra is legal, when it's already killed more people than pot?
You can't patent a plant.

It's really that simple. If you don't think that the pharmacutical companies are paying off politicians, you don't quite understand the reality of politics. Government is nothing more than another useless multi-billion dollar invented industry. (http://www.bop2004.org/hiredguns/spending.aspx)

Let's get rid of it, and get rid of it now.

Step 1: Educate the people.

Yeah, I get that Big Pharma owns a nice chunk o' Congress and the executive branch, but beyond the typical explanation for something irrational in American society ... I mean, what's the justification, the ideology behind it?

^^^
greed

Legalize ALL plants! Isn't it rediculous to outlaw plants? Did you know you are all guilty of possession of the most potent hallucinogen yet discovered- DMT? It is found naturally in the body.

"... I mean, what's the justification, the ideology behind it? "
It is inherited from puritanism.

^^^
"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit... unnatural?" - Bill Hicks

Hemp is a cheap renewable source of paper. That is why it is illegal. It was used later as a source of funding against the drug war but that is the primary reason that the laws against were first made.

Dunno where your logic came from on that one.....

in any case, there are plenty of political/economic reasons that pot is illegal, the "uses of hemp" reason being one of the most benign.

I heard on the news that the Canadian Parlament voted against the legalization of marijuana. So... there ya go. I win, you lose.... :D :D
(I don't want it to be legalized)

:cool:

The big book of conspiracies is the source of that theory. Not the most reliable source but it makes as much sense as any other reason. Why do you want to stop me from smoking weed? I have not smoked it in 12 years but would appreciate the option.

I propose that...

All drugs be made legal

All would be users to be registered and licenced after medical and psychiatric assesment

Drugs are taxed but not prohibitively so

The taxes are used specifically to create rehabilitation centres and professional counselling for victims of drug abuse, or those that want to come off them

That drug use remains illegal at your place of work, or completely illegal if your job means you are responsible for the lives of others, such as bus drivers, surgeons, pilots etc.

The taxes are used specifically to create rehabilitation centres and professional counselling for victims of drug abuse, or those that want to come off them
You have interesting ideas, but I see a mistake on your train of thought in this particular rule.

If you taxe and use the tax to create rehabilitation centres and counselling, why woukd you do that? I mean... if you get taxes, you could use tax for something else. But if you legalize the drug and people need such things, than wouldn't it be better to prevent this kind of problem by not legalizing it in the first place?

It's nice to get some more money from tax, particularly because I don't need to pay it myself anyways. But do it by the cost of other people's lifes? No thanks.

The illegal drug trade is the main cause of modern crime. From prostitution to muggings, to burglaties, to drive by shootings, to the billions spent by the tax payers to 'enforce' the law and all to no avail.

A section of society wants to do drugs... it's that simple, now if they're the ones that pay the taxes, then rightly, they're the ones that should benefit from them. Bear in mind that the average tax payer will save money, because all the billions spent by law enforcement against drugs crime will suddenly become available for other uses, such as education and health.

Illegal drug users are constantly at risk, from, 1st, inconsistent quality of street drugs, 2nd, from the type of circles they have to mix in in order to get their drugs and, from dependence on excruciatingly expensive street drugs that force them to become criminals themselves in order to be able to afford them.

Legalising will save many more lives than not legalising and, will eradicate most common crime at a stroke, this is simple logic. And, if one over does it, he or she will have the option of free or cheap rehabilitation or treatment ,within his locale.


Is everybody 'appy? You bet your life we are!

The illegal drug trade is the main cause of modern crime. From prostitution to muggings, to burglaties, to drive by shootings, to the billions spent by the tax payers to 'enforce' the law and all to no avail.

A section of society wants to do drugs... it's that simple, now if they're the ones that pay the taxes, then rightly, they're the ones that should benefit from them. Bear in mind that the average tax payer will save money, because all the billions spent by law enforcement against drugs crime will suddenly become available for other uses, such as education and health.
So... let them die and screw themselves? Couldn't we possibly educate them not to use drugs? And bear in mind I'm talking specially about kids and teenagers...

^^^
I agree 100%

BUT

well... just take a look at this to see what kids are receiving as drug "education":
http://www.retrobill.com/safetytip.htm

TruthSeeker quote:

"So... let them die and screw themselves? Couldn't we possibly educate them not to use drugs? And bear in mind I'm talking specially about kids and teenagers... "

Where did I say that? Read my shit again and you'll see I'm saying the exact opposite.

Education is a great idea, but i fear they'll be preaching to the converted. Drugs are a vice, users are beyond reason and those into it will simply laugh at the educator... but, try it by all means.

If anything, drugs education should be just that... education on the effects of them, reasons to take or not to take them, how to take them safely and what to do when you've had enough. But, if they continue to be illegal, no one's going to put an education program like that together. Simply being negative about drugs will not ride with today's kids... they're too savvy.

Yeah well... I don't know...
I have never been a rebel without a cause.... :D

I would like to know reasons for the no votes if thats possible.

I cant see any logic in wanting it to stay illegal, you either have an unwillingness to accept fact or a tendency to pretend that there is no problem when there clearly is. Many people you wouldnt even think of probably smoke pot, they are going out of their way to break the law to get it but yet if they are caught they will be given a criminal record thus limiting their chances in life. There must be a very good reason for the want to keep it illegal that Im missing, all reasons Ive seen so far in this thread are not strong enough reasons for the suffering and restriction on people's choice of lifestyle.

I agree with tablariddim, people are going to break the law that are addicted to the hard drugs, so why make society suffer from their habits? Why cant we just tax it and thus making it cheaper so they dont have to steel? I can only see one flaw (and its a big one) in this arguement and that would be that its possible that addiction will go through the roof, destroying people's lifes in the process because even although they may be extrememly addictive (Im talking about coca and heroin) they do damage your body and mind both in the short and long term. This is why if it were going to be legalised then you would have to raise people's awareness so much that they simply wouldnt want to take it but its been tryed with tobacco and it doesnt work, despite all the negative ads on the tv people will still smoke and thats because its addictive, coca and heroin being many many more times more addictive than tobacco. So if many people were addicted to hard drugs then society will suffer in a different way as a consequence.

Is bad for them
Is bad for us
It incentivates crime

Is that enough?

truthseeker,

If you really want to live up to your namesake, I suggest a dosage of 5 gms p. cubanis or other related mushroom containing psilocybin.

after that, read on...

1. Define "bad"
2. Define "us"
3. Define "incentivates"

truthseeker,

If you really want to live up to your namesake, I suggest a dosage of 5 gms p. cubanis or other related mushroom containing psilocybin.
I have tried it. I saw a couple of flying pink elephants with little yellow dots, but I don't see how that can help me. Oh.... and that lizard dragon that came out of the pool almost ate me alive....



after that, read on...

1. Define "bad"
2. Define "us"
3. Define "incentivates"

Not good
Not them
Makes it more likely

I have tried it. I saw a couple of flying pink elephants with little yellow dots, but I don't see how that can help me. Oh.... and that lizard dragon that came out of the pool almost ate me alive....
thusly proving that you have never eaten mushrooms... c'mon, if you're going to make up drug stories, try not to pick something cliche.



Not good
Not them
Makes it more likely

3. incentivates (from truthseeker's unabridged new dictionary - collegiate edition) - makes "it" more likely

Top Mosker; get a dictionary. Don't ask silly questions ;)

Truthseeker,
How would legalized drugs "incentivate" (LOL, good word) crime in any way?

Also, there are vaporizers available that do not burn it, also decreasing possible health problems.
What?
Can you elaborate (or link) please?

Is bad for them
Is bad for us
It incentivates crime

Is that enough?

Its bad for them; Im take it you mean its unhealthy. This is simply not true, its true to some extent but I think that statement implys something more than the truth, firstly, going by your logic beef burgers, cigarettes, alcohol, chocolate etc should all be illegal. There is no logic, you cannot prohibit everything in life that may be unhealthy or bad for you.
Ill tell you why cannabis is not as unhealthy as cigarettes, its says it all in erowid but in a nutshell: Cannabis users do not smoke as much as tobacco smokers, they do not need to smoke as much of it to keep themselfs high or to forfill any addictive craving so they smoke less.

I dont know what you mean by its bad for us, there is simply no logic in that statement because firstly; cannabis is not the only thing in this world thats bad for us, infact compared to most things its pretty safe and secondly for the other reasons I gave in the previous paragraph.

In no way does it incentive crime. I have never known anyone to believe this statement because it in no way does it hold water. Cannabis is not addictive, I believe true addiction is physical addiction, as this is a consequence that applys to everyone, phycological addiction does not, cannabis is proven not to be physically dependance forming. People can think they are addicted to anything, You could say that you are addicted to fitness, chocolate or television, this does not mean your body cannot function without them. As its non addictive, people that use cannabis will not spend all their money on it, this means they will not go out and steal to get money to buy it like a cocaine addict will - the difference is cocaine is physically addictive, you will experience heavy withdrawl from cocaine and heroin etc.

The only way cannabis incentives crime is because its illegal, you are commiting a crime by using it or selling it. And like anything illicit, people will always sell it because it makes them alot of money because it is illicit.

Im begging you to search for the truth about Cannabis/ marijuana, as aside from all the consequences of spreading lies about it, it makes you look pretty daft - and I dont mean that in an offensive way. If you dont then I dont mind that much.

:)

thusly proving that you have never eaten mushrooms... c'mon, if you're going to make up drug stories, try not to pick something cliche.
I was just making fun of it anyways... :D



3. incentivates (from truthseeker's unabridged new dictionary - collegiate edition) - makes "it" more likely
i would follow Avatar's advice... :p

Truthseeker,
How would legalized drugs "incentivate" (LOL, good word) crime in any way?
Producing more drugs, making it more likely for people to use it, making people crazy... :D I mean... imagine if there was a legal industry on marijuana. The demand would be quite elastic, and the prices would probably be quite high, since people would be willing to pay whatever they need to get it. Not to mention on the profit that the government could have through taxes. It would look like the cigarrete industry, or the condom industry. :D But if the prices would go too high, or if poor people would consume it, then the real income of buyers would become smaller and if they wouldn't have enough money to buy it, guess what? They would start stealing it, thus raising criminality.

Its bad for them; Im take it you mean its unhealthy. This is simply not true, its true to some extent but I think that statement implys something more than the truth, firstly, going by your logic beef burgers, cigarettes, alcohol, chocolate etc should all be illegal. There is no logic, you cannot prohibit everything in life that may be unhealthy or bad for you.
Yes, you can. Have you ever watched that movie... what was the name... that movie with Silvester Stalone, where he was a cop and Arnold Schuazenegger was the president... "The Demolitor" or something like that... ?:D

Well, anyways.... chocolate is not so bad. I mean... it even have good properties. But what I implied is that stuff that is VERY bad for you should be illegal, or we should be educated to avoid those...



Ill tell you why cannabis is not as unhealthy as cigarettes, its says it all in erowid but in a nutshell: Cannabis users do not smoke as much as tobacco smokers, they do not need to smoke as much of it to keep themselfs high or to forfill any addictive craving so they smoke less.
Not what I've seen and heard...



I dont know what you mean by its bad for us, there is simply no logic in that statement because firstly; cannabis is not the only thing in this world thats bad for us, infact compared to most things its pretty safe and secondly for the other reasons I gave in the previous paragraph.
Again, experiences in my country would say otherwise...



In no way does it incentive crime. I have never known anyone to believe this statement because it in no way does it hold water. Cannabis is not addictive, I believe true addiction is physical addiction, as this is a consequence that applys to everyone, phycological addiction does not, cannabis is proven not to be physically dependance forming.
Again, proven not to be true in my country. Particularly, because it usually serves as a bridge (or I should say gateway) to more potent and addictive drugs such as cocaine and heroine.



People can think they are addicted to anything, You could say that you are addicted to fitness, chocolate or television, this does not mean your body cannot function without them.
In a way, they are addictive because they release serotonine. But in another way, you are right because the "chemicals" in those products are not addictive themselves.



As its non addictive, people that use cannabis will not spend all their money on it, this means they will not go out and steal to get money to buy it like a cocaine addict will - the difference is cocaine is physically addictive, you will experience heavy withdrawl from cocaine and heroin etc.
Again, my experience in my country tells it to be untrue. Eventhough marijuana is not very addictive, it can be used as a bridge to more addictive drugs. and drug dealers use it all the time. They often mix marijuana with some other highly addictive drug, thus making addiction more likely. It is a very tricky industry. Making it legal would be quite dangerous in that way...



The only way cannabis incentives crime is because its illegal, you are commiting a crime by using it or selling it. And like anything illicit, people will always sell it because it makes them alot of money because it is illicit.
Yes, true enough. Still, some people are allowed to use it because of health issues (they use it as some sort of treatement). Go figure... :p



Im begging you to search for the truth about Cannabis/ marijuana, as aside from all the consequences of spreading lies about it, it makes you look pretty daft - and I dont mean that in an offensive way. If you dont then I dont mind that much.
Once again, I'm not lying. I'm pretty used with thinking about this drug stuff. I mean.... I've heard on the news before that drug dealers put drugs on candies and sell it to kids, in front of schools. that probably doesn't happen here, but in my country, it does (or used to- i've heard that a long time ago). I know all the consequences and all the tricks that any producer may have to make it more likely to sell huge quantities of drugs.

Well, anyways.... chocolate is not so bad. I mean... it even have good properties. But what I implied is that stuff that is VERY bad for you should be illegal, or we should be educated to avoid those...

Well, tobacco and petrol should be banned/ illegal as they cause cancers.


Again, proven not to be true in my country. Particularly, because it usually serves as a bridge (or I should say gateway) to more potent and addictive drugs such as cocaine and heroine.

Its a gateway because its illegal, you have to go to some unscruplious character to get it therefore making the contacts that will sell you more dangerous drugs if you feel like it.


They often mix marijuana with some other highly addictive drug, thus making addiction more likely. It is a very tricky industry. Making it legal would be quite dangerous in that way...
Again, this would only happen because its illegal, if it does actually happen.
If it were legal it would be regulated.


Yes, true enough. Still, some people are allowed to use it because of health issues (they use it as some sort of treatement). Go figure...
What does that prove, alcohol can also be used for pain release but produces the undesirable effects of intoxication. That proves that it should be legal is it is a multipurpose drug.


Once again, I'm not lying. I'm pretty used with thinking about this drug stuff. I mean.... I've heard on the news before that drug dealers put drugs on candies and sell it to kids, in front of schools. that probably doesn't happen here, but in my country, it does (or used to- i've heard that a long time ago). I know all the consequences and all the tricks that any producer may have to make it more likely to sell huge quantities of drugs.

Yes, the drugs that they will be selling will be cocaine and heroin etc which are really bad as they produce addiction both physical and phycological and very detremental to ones well being. Marijuana is relatively harmless compared with tobacco.

Thanks.

Good pain relief for those that are allergic to propriety medicines ;)

Grow ya own ;)

Captain, how would you regulate the market of drugs? I mean... how would you prevent producres from mixing more addictive drugs with the "mild" one?

Captain, how would you regulate the market of drugs? I mean... how would you prevent producres from mixing more addictive drugs with the "mild" one?

First off, I'm not saying a regulated "drugs" market, rather; a legal controlled and regulated market for marijuana.

If there was such a market, the drug would become public domain, it would not be exclusively controlled by drug dealers, infact it would be participated in by legal and above baord companies that would only have dealing in marijuana and they would be required to abide by standards and inspections by legal entities. This would force down the price of marijuana so it would no longer be as beneficial to drug dealers to sell it when you know you can get a high quality packet from the supermarket that has been weighed accordingly.
Think of it like the tobacco industry but with that awful killer weed being substituted with marijuana.

As it is just now, if contaminating marijuana does take place then this is because its the same unscrupulous character that will be selling the harder addictive drugs so the opportunity is there for contamination. Also, because it is illegal there are no quality control or people to regulate the standard or weight of what your buying. It is out with the realms of the law therefore there is no regulation, you just have to hope that your dealer is honest - in this country thats the majority, alot of dealers will only sell marijuana and are entirely trustworthy people. I like to think of these guys as doing a service for the community because thats what they're doing in essence.

I was just making fun of it anyways... :D
You might think it's just a bunch of kids on the internet getting high, and you can just laugh at them, but I, and many others take the psychedelic experience very seriously. If you would experience it, or at very least just read up on it, you too, would see that it is not just seeing a bunch of colors n stuff, but the opening of your doors of perception. The psychonaut is changed permanantly after the experience.

truthseeker, instead of wasting your time trying (read: failing) to be the comedian of sciforums, go educate yourself. Use your brain instead of letting it go to waste: www.erowid.org

If you don't want to do drugs, I can respect that, but don't spread lies about them when you know you don't know anything on the subject.

:m:

You might think it's just a bunch of kids on the internet getting high, and you can just laugh at them,
yeeeess... :D


but I, and many others take the psychedelic experience very seriously. If you would experience it, or at very least just read up on it, you too, would see that it is not just seeing a bunch of colors n stuff, but the opening of your doors of perception.
I know. I already mention that first nation people used to use it for spritual enlightment, didn't I? It does activate ineresting parts of the brain. It does increase perception. But like everything else, it is not good for you if consumed in excess. And the problem with drugs is that they can be pretty addictive, and even if it is just psychological addiction, it is no good for you body, you know? First Nations people always used it in moderation. It was part of their rules, you know? Modern sociey doesn't have such rules. In fact, modern society motivates people to consume more than what they need.

[quoe]
truthseeker, instead of wasting your time trying (read: failing) to be the comedian of sciforums, go educate yourself.[/quote]
I don't try to be a "comedian", I just chill out, that' all... ;)


Use your brain instead of letting it go to waste: www.erowid.org
With that, than I would be wating my brain...



If you don't want to do drugs, I can respect that, but don't spread lies about them when you know you don't know anything on the subject.
Lies? Don't know anything about the subject? Gimme a break! I've talked more about drugs than anyone else in this thread! From sociologic issues to the biological and historical ones! Just because I don't use them, that doesn't mean I don't know anything about them!

In fact, I don't use them because I know a lot about them... :rolleyes:

Lies?

Yes lies, you have said absolutely little that could be taken as the truth.



Don't know anything about the subject? Gimme a break!

You know very little on the subject, nearly everything you have said about marijuana being physically addictive and extremely bad for your body is all lies and should be treated with extreme prejudice.



I've talked more about drugs than anyone else in this thread! From sociologic issues to the biological and historical ones! Just because I don't use them, that doesn't mean I don't know anything about them!


Youve demonstrated that you know that originally some "drugs" (as you collectively bracket them) were used for spiritual reasons by amazonial indians and the incas/aztec populus of South America, however, this doesnt really have anything to do with this subject and you have produced no undisputable argument that would be a logical reason to have marijuana kept illegal. Basing your argument on very little facts.



In fact, I don't use them because I know a lot about them... :rolleyes:
Actually, you have demonstrated that you know very little on subject.
Youve talked about things that exist only your mind and dont reflect the reality.

Cheers.

:)

Yes lies, you have said absolutely little that could be taken as the truth.
Which lies!?!? Say one!



You know very little on the subject, nearly everything you have said about marijuana being physically addictive and extremely bad for your body is all lies and should be treated with extreme prejudice.
It is addictive! It is less addictive than others, but it is till addictive.



Youve demonstrated that you know that originally some "drugs" (as you collectively bracket them) were used for spiritual reasons by amazonial indians and the incas/aztec populus of South America, however, this doesnt really have anything to do with this subject and you have produced no undisputable argument that would be a logical reason to have marijuana kept illegal. Basing your argument on very little facts.
Doesn't have anything to do with the subject? The fact that they used it in moderation to avoid getting addicted is irrelevant?!?



Actually, you have demonstrated that you know very little on subject.
Youve talked about things that exist only your mind and dont reflect the reality.
Well, maybe you should go to Colombia and see what IS reality! Grow up. Get over it. It is bad for you, specially if you don't use in moderation.

Which lies!?!? Say one!
You have constantly said that marijuana is addictive which it is not.


What are you talking about!? IN Brasil there are hundreds if not thousands of teenagers addicted to marijuana! It IS highly addictive!



It is addictive! It is less addictive than others, but it is till addictive.

Nope, your wrong and this is an example of your lies. Unless you consider marijuana to be physically addictive in your country, for that to happen Brazil must not obey the laws of chemisty that everywhere else on the planet obeys.



Doesn't have anything to do with the subject? The fact that they used it in moderation to avoid getting addicted is irrelevant?!?


Used what? "Drugs" isnt a drug, drugs is used to descibe many different types of drugs all with completely different addictiveness levels and effects. How can you get addicted to marijuana when it is unaddictive? We've already discussed why psyhcological are no reason to ban anything, marijuana doesnt give physical addictivness.



Well, maybe you should go to Colombia and see what IS reality! Grow up. Get over it. It is bad for you, specially if you don't use in moderation.
Well, maybe you should wake up and smell the coffee, Columbia's problems are cocaine fueled, nothing or very little to do with marijuana. This is the reality whether you choose to believe it or not.

:)

truthseeker, regardless of what you've said, you never addressed one issue:
The fact that prohibition does not work. You cannot change human behavior through the use of laws. It creates organized crime, turns otherwise law-abiding citizens into criminals, and creates easy access to the drug for minors.

What do you have to say about that?
:m:

Ok. It is pointless to discuss like that. So from now on, drugs are not addictive at all. So maybe we should call them lollypops.... :rolleyes:


Well, maybe you should wake up and smell the coffee, Columbia's problems are cocaine fueled, nothing or very little to do with marijuana. This is the reality whether you choose to believe it or not.
Oh! Reaaaally? :rolleyes:

truthseeker, regardless of what you've said, you never addressed one issue:
The fact that prohibition does not work. You cannot change human behavior through the use of laws. It creates organized crime, turns otherwise law-abiding citizens into criminals, and creates easy access to the drug for minors.

What do you have to say about that?
I would say you are absolutely right. It's even in agreement with my philosophy. But I'm thinking only on terms of what it is, wheter than on what it should be....

Drugs are bad for people, and the only way to protect them is through education...

Ok. It is pointless to discuss like that. So from now on, drugs are not addictive at all.Please provide a scientific source showing that weed is addictive. Otherwise realize that you are a sheltered person who doesn't really know much about the world, but likes to pretend that they do.

Ok. It is pointless to discuss like that. So from now on, drugs are not addictive at all. So maybe we should call them lollypops....
Drugs is a term for many different types of drugs each with their own properties. Marijuana is not physically addicting, many other drugs are, so if you dont believe that, you are a fool.

Please provide a scientific source showing that weed is addictive. Otherwise realize that you are a sheltered person who doesn't really know much about the world, but likes to pretend that they do.
http://www.peele.net/faq/addictive.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/marijuana0331.html
http://www.peaceandhealing.com/addiction/drug_marijuana.asp
http://www.drug-rehabilitation.com/marijuana-addiction/

"Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they use the drug compulsively even though it often interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. "

"Along with craving, withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop using the drug. People trying to quit report irritability, difficulty sleeping, and anxiety.59,60 They also display increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately 1 week after they last used the drug.61"



:rolleyes:


Get - a - life - people! :bugeye:

Drugs is a term for many different types of drugs each with their own properties. Marijuana is not physically addicting, many other drugs are, so if you dont believe that, you are a fool.
I don't think I need to add anything, do I....? :rolleyes:

I would say you are absolutely right. It's even in agreement with my philosophy. But I'm thinking only on terms of what it is, wheter than on what it should be....

So.... even though the laws do more harm than good, it is best to keep them the same?
You're really not making a good case for keeping around prohibition. The only thing you are doing is making a case for why you think the drug is bad.


Drugs are bad for people, and the only way to protect them is through education...
Again - I refer you to the type of education our children are receiving:
http://www.dare-america.com/home/default.asp

So.... even though the laws do more harm than good, it is best to keep them the same?
Whoa! What are you talking about!? What I was saying is that by the present social norms and ways of dealing with such a situation, keeping it against the law is the only thing we can do. Would there be a better way? Certainly. And that is through education. But do people want to go through education? Of course not, because if it was that way, the prisons would be almost completely empty because evreryone (or almost everyone) would be rehabilitated.



You're really not making a good case for keeping around prohibition. The only thing you are doing is making a case for why you think the drug is bad.
Yeeeeessss... that's what I'm talking aboooout.... :rolleyes: ;)



Again - I refer you to the type of education our children are receiving:
http://www.dare-america.com/home/default.asp
What about all the stuff that we see on TV? That is not helpful, ya know? ;)

So, I never speak of marijuana as being not addictive, just as I never speak of heroin as being addictive. That?s not how addiction works. People become addicted to a range of substances and involvements. The measure of addiction is the degree to which an involvement usurps people?s life, and yet they cannot curtail the involvement.Click for the Source! (http://www.peele.net/faq/addictive.html)

Ok, so the guy hasnt said what type of addictivness he believes marijuana to have but he gives us a clue here in that quote. The key being: People become addicted to a range of substances and involvements This backs up what I said about phycological addictiveness, you can get addicted to just about everything, this is infact what he is saying.


Eighty-five percent admitted their habit interfered with driving, school, work and home life, while 77 percent said they spent "much time" getting, using or recovering from the effects of marijuana, according to the study, published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence. ... Most also said their problems started before they started using marijuana. ...
"This study provides additional important data to better illustrate that marijuana is a dangerous drug that can be addictive,"... Drug abuse experts say the problem is a physical, not a moral one and say drug addicts should be treated like anyone else with a disease rather than jailed. Click for the source! (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/marijuana0331.htm) l

That news artical is appauling,
Conflicting information given is given: It says that it effects their judgement, but of course this is a quality of being stoned. What we have here is people that are high all the time, of course theyre gonna mess up. It says that most of their problems started even before they started using marijuana! It says that they are clinically dependant, notice they hardly ever use the work addicted or physically addicted, what kind of addictivness are they talking about? Dependance isnt addictiveness, you can get dependant on anything.
They say that its a physical problem!. Its misleading information.
Anyway, anyone who knows people that smoke, know they are not addicted. It simply isnt true.


Evidence points to a psychological, as opposed to a physiological addiction to cannabis use. Click for the source! (http://www.peaceandhealing.com/addiction/drug_marijuana.asp)

I dont think I have to comment any further on this link.


Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they use the drug compulsively even though it often interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. Click for the Source! (http://www.drug-rehabilitation.com/marijuana-addiction/ )


"Along with craving, withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop using the drug. People trying to quit report irritability, difficulty sleeping, and anxiety.59,60 They also display increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately 1 week after they last used the drug.61"

This is purely phychological not a physical addictiveness. Also note that this is from a company source, this means its completely biased as they can be making money out of it.

Truthseeker, people can get physically addicted to alcohol, do you think this should be banned?
Come on, who are you trying to convince, are you sure it is us?

:)

My God! Looks like you go as far as to the point of denying it to yourself!
Get a life. Accept it. Marijuana is addictive. That is plenty of sources about it! Just accept it, damn it! It is pointless to continue a discusion if you just don't accept the fact!

Try this:

Marijuana use in pregnancy damages kids' learning (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/pregnancy.jsp;jsessionid=HBGJENCOGOGF)
Cannabis link to mental illness strengthened (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/schizophrenia.jsp)
Cannabis smoking 'more harmful' than tobacco (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/moreharmful.jsp)
Controversy still rages over whether cannabis damages the brain (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/waronweed.jsp)
Is there such a thing as a cannabis addict? (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/addict.jsp)


... :rolleyes:



Truthseeker, people can get physically addicted to alcohol, do you think this should be banned?
Yeeeesss.... :rolleyes: :D

Whoa! What are you talking about!? What I was saying is that by the present social norms and ways of dealing with such a situation, keeping it against the law is the only thing we can do. Would there be a better way? Certainly. And that is through education. But do people want to go through education? Of course not, because if it was that way, the prisons would be almost completely empty because evreryone (or almost everyone) would be rehabilitated.


Yeeeeessss... that's what I'm talking aboooout.... :rolleyes: ;)


What about all the stuff that we see on TV? That is not helpful, ya know? ;)
heh... i just got the joke...

"... heavy boozing is worse for your neurons than dope."

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/memory.jsp

Children born to mothers who use marijuana during pregnancy may suffer a host of lasting mental defects, suggests a new study in rats. Click for source! (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/pregnancy.jsp;jsessionid=HBGJENCOGOGF)

Rats. I dont have to say anything else. Medical testing done on animals produce more confusion than if it were to be done on humans.

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/schizophrenia.jsp

Ill give you that one. I will say this however, other legal narcotics are not without their sideeffects but still remain legal. The quote from that link sums it up:

"The overall weight of evidence is that occasional use of cannabis has few harmful effects overall," Zammit's team writes. "Nevertheless, our results indicate a potentially serious risk to the mental health of people who use cannabis. Such risks need to be considered in the current move to liberalise and possibly legalise the use of cannabis in the UK and other countries."

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/moreharmful.jsp

But you dont smoke as much as tobacco therefore it isnt actually any worse.

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/waronweed.jsp

It says that all these people were dependant, and they had recently smoked the drug before the test. I think that renders the results inconclusive.

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/addict.jsp

So what, they are just people that have addictive personalities.

I could keep going on with rubbishing these links but I cannot be bothered.

:)

So you recognize the fact that it is addictive and it is not good for you?
That's good. :) ;)

That allegation is completely false and free from any logical basis, I refute that claim entirely, I dont see how you concluded with that.

I can see at least one good thing about prohibition, it makes for a lot of revolutionaries and we are gonna have to change things pretty durn quick (for the better) or face doom, doom, doom.

:( :m: ;)

Babylon system gonna fall.

You deny that the evidence is correct, even when it is proven in reliable scientific magazines?

Really, I can't do anything if you don't want to accept the fact that marijuana is addictive. I have shown scientific evidence, and you simply don't want to accept it. I can't make you accept the evidence, so i will just leave it as it is. If you don't accept it, it is your problem, not mine.

I believe from personal experience that caffeine is more addictive and from anecdotal evidence that smoking is much more addictive.

You deny that the evidence is correct, even when it is proven in reliable scientific magazines?

Really, I can't do anything if you don't want to accept the fact that marijuana is addictive. I have shown scientific evidence, and you simply don't want to accept it. I can't make you accept the evidence, so i will just leave it as it is. If you don't accept it, it is your problem, not mine.

Your wrong, i went through that so called evidence and pointed out the reasons to why it was inaccurate, unjustified, flawed nonsence.

I dont have to accept that evidence because it isnt evidence but propoganda. Why should cannabis be illegal when alcohol and other things that are damaging remain legal and endorsed by government? Its because they cannot control marijuana sufficiently, anyone can grow it in relative safety without anyone ever finding out and its just as good as the stuff they could sell you. Also, there is no money therefore no taxes that could be made from medical distribution, the pharmacuticals would lose trade and could not make any money from its sale.

Now, they have made some medicine that is basically marijuana extract that is going to be used by MS and arthritis sufferers, boom, there you have a way that pharmacetical companies can make money from it and guess what, it will be legal, its already been approved by government.

The government is corrupt, flawed and biased and I cannot accept this possition on marijuana is an injustice.

You really want to smoke, don't ya? :rolleyes:

Anyways... I was watching the news yesterday and it seems there is some connection between cultivation of marijuana with child labour.... how interesting...

Besides, if we start legalizing everything, we might as well live in a world where everyone is high, nobody lives in the real world and everyone is addicted to this s**t... what a wonderful world... :rolleyes:

Certainly not the world I want my kids to live in. :bugeye:

Unfortunately, that legal stuff won't get you high. It's also been reported, that MS sufferers who have tried it, say it's not a very pleasant experience.

You really want to smoke, don't ya? :rolleyes:

Anyways... I was watching the news yesterday and it seems there is some connection between cultivation of marijuana with child labour.... how interesting...

Besides, if we start legalizing everything, we might as well live in a world where everyone is high, nobody lives in the real world and everyone is addicted to this s**t... what a wonderful world... :rolleyes:

Certainly not the world I want my kids to live in. :bugeye:

You presume I smoke: I do not. I used to but not anymore.

Did the news say anything about children are employed in all kinds of industries and that is not restricted to the third world, they work in manufacturing, retail, hotels as well as agriculture etc? Child labour is due to poverty, demand and education as well as other circumstances. Also, people are more than willing to buy products that are produced from it so the demand is there. I think you have failed to see the relevance of that comment, it is not relevant in the slightest. Lets ban retail, the hotel and resteraunt trade, agriculture if that will stop child labour, which it wont. To stop child labour you will have to ban poverty, which Im all for.

Yeh, everyone will get physically addicted to things that are not physically addictive (I am being sarcastic, not to be mistaken for actually believing that nonsence).

The accusation of child labour was actually in Canada... caused by that particular industry...

The industry only exists because of its illegality. More and more, people are growing in closets. Truthseeker, living in the "real world" has nothing to do with what chemicals are coursing through your bloodstream. Your body is always "holding". The most potent naturally occuring hallucinogen is found in the human Pineal gland. Also, it should not be illegal to be an addict. Most of the problems with being an addict have to do with its illegality. You can live a long, healthy life as a heroin addict, as long as you don't have to live on the street, or sacrifice food or steal for drugs, or share dirty needles.

Well, if you are an addict, chances are that all those things won't happen. And chances are you won't be healthy...

You cannot make stupidity illegal. It should be illegal to punish people who have not committed a crime. If I drive high I should be arrested but if I am only hurting myself I should be free to do whatever I want that does not hurt anyone else. I do not like any one to tell me what to do not even my mom much less the government.

I know several addicts that are quite healthy they are able to balance all aspects of their lives and hold productive jobs as well. They are not criminals or thugs they are people who just disagree with the government’s right to make decisions about their life without consulting them.

You deny that the evidence is correct, even when it is proven in reliable scientific magazines?

Why not? Nixon did it when he was told by the board of researchers he put together to study the issue that it had few harmful side effects and should be legalized.


Anyways... I was watching the news yesterday and it seems there is some connection between cultivation of marijuana with child labour.... how interesting...

Wow, imagine that. I'd have never thought that a reactionary fearmongering media would say things like that. :p They also link it with terrorism. When are the death sentences for drug dealing going to be handed down.


Besides, if we start legalizing everything, we might as well live in a world where everyone is high, nobody lives in the real world and everyone is addicted to this s**t... what a wonderful world...

Yes, the number one reason why marijuana is illegal. The Gateway theory. That's a bunch of crap, it's only a gateway because you go to jail for weed, you go to jail for coke, hmm, might as well do some coke since I'm a criminal anyway.


Personally, I believe that most illegal drugs rightly deserve their illegal status. Their side effects are harmful and many. But weed should not be. It is not addictive, it is habit-forming, but so is scratching your balls. Gonna make that illegal next?

By the way, did you know that in earlier days hemp was grown in practically every garden? People used to make their own clothes from the hemp they grew themselves. Why spend money on underwear when you can make your own for free? Did you know that until recently hemp was the wonder fiber of the planet. Since it's criminalization, the history books have been rewritten and hemp has been removed. Do you know how much hemp is imported into the United States from the phillipines to make rope? Do you know that criminalization of hemp was originally racist? Only black jazz musicians smoked muggles (mostly). The whites got their marijuana in tonic form, at greatly intensified levels. Did you know that the criminalization of marijuana occured at the same time that dupont began producing synthetic plastics? When the pharmaceutical industries were securing their stranglehold on our balls? Did you know that in WWII farmers were encouraged to "Grow hemp for Victory?" The history of the prohibition of marijuana is a lesson in immorality on the part of the government. Grow hemp for food, fuel, and fiber.