After months of meditation (I`m kidding... I spent just some hours :D) I draw the conclusion that the only complete definition to life is a conscient energy.

Why? Well... first life must be a kind of energy. We are able to realize work, so we ARE a kind of energy. Also, everything in the universe is a kind of energy, so life must be one too.

Conscient because we are also conscient. A tree is conscient too, but the grade of conscient might vary. More evolved species certainly are more conscient, while less evolved are not much conscient. Our senses make us conscient of our environment, but there is also self-conscience. That`s humans. Humans are the only specie that is self-conscient.

I know that scientists might argue with me about a conscient energy, but if there is no conscient energy, how can we explain our conscience? How can conscience exist? What is conscience? If everything is a kind of energy, concience must be one also. And life is perfect for this definition.

Hello Nelson. Goodbye cruel world.

*Shoots self*

BTW, "conscient" is not a word.

BTW, "conscient" is not a word.

Really? So why there is ´conscient` in the dictionary?http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=conscient

It means conscious, aware...

PS: Please discuss the subject, not my English...
I believe I can take care of my English, myself... I even know words that you don`t... ;)

Death, where is thy sting?

Ja Nelson, it was a word - for Bacon. You know when he lived? :rolleyes:

I rest my case.

Okay, how's this for your post:

Utterly unsubstantiated. Would a moderator please move this pseudoscience to the appropriate forum?


Why? Well... first life must be a kind of energy. We are able to realize work, so we ARE a kind of energy. Also, everything in the universe is a kind of energy, so life must be one too.

Blurs the distinction between that which has the attributes of life and the essence of life, if you wish to be Platonic.

If you wish to be scientific -- and you are on my turf, Nelson --


A tree is conscient too,

Evidence?


but the grade of conscient might vary.

Evidence?


More evolved species certainly are more conscient, while less evolved are not much conscient.

Evidence?


That`s humans. Humans are the only specie that is self-conscient.

Evidence?


how can we explain our conscience?

You've heard of the mind, right?


How can conscience exist?

Why don't you define the following:


What is conscience?

before asking.


If everything is a kind of energy, concience must be one also. And life is perfect for this definition.

Kindly do not confuse the scientific term "energy" with the New-Age term, Nelson. They are different concepts.

Would a moderator please move to the appropriate forum? Thanks much.

The Evolution of Consciousness: The Origins of the Way We Think
by Robert Ornstein (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671792245/qid=1026360942/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-8686495-1021418)

He uses deductive logic. Interesting book, I haven't read the whole thing myself though.

<i>first life must be a kind of energy. We are able to realize work, so we ARE a kind of energy. Also, everything in the universe is a kind of energy, so life must be one too.</i>

This is not quite true. If you had said matter can be converted to energy you'd be right. But matter and energy are not the same thing - that's why we have two words instead of one.

Secondly, I do not believe you can prove that a tree, for example, has any recognisable consciousness.

Xev,

Common knowledge needs no evidence.:bugeye:
Unless you want me to explain why 2+2=4...:eek:




how can we explain our conscience?how can we explain our conscience?

You've heard of the mind, right?

Great explanation. You change the word conscience into mind. Does that explain something? I don`t think so...:bugeye:

You are walking in circles like usual. It`s no help to know that 3+1=2+2...:bugeye:

I want to know what`s the nature of conscience. It seems to be energy. That`s my point. :eek:

That conscience is in the mind, that I already know.:bugeye:

You, again, have a lot of preconceit and have no idea of what I`m talking about. My definition of energy here is complelty sientific. You again are against it just because it is a new idea.

*sigh...


James R,


This is not quite true. If you had said matter can be converted to energy you'd be right. But matter and energy are not the same thing - that's why we have two words instead of one.

Matter is a kind of energy.
However, I did not said that we are matter. WE ARE NOT MATTER. I hope that everyone here knows that...:bugeye:

If we were matter, we would be as dead as a chair or a table. :bugeye:

We are a conscience. We are just limited in a body that is made of matter, but we are not the matter...:bugeye: :eek:


Secondly, I do not believe you can prove that a tree, for example, has any recognisable consciousness.

It grows. It follows light. It reproduces. It lives.

Nelson:

Firstoff, your posts do seem to have evolved a bit. You're growing a thicker skin and learning to insult.

Congratulations.

Perhaps if you stopped posting lies about me "attacking" you we could talk civilly.


Great explanation. You change the word conscience into mind. Does that explain something? I don`t think so...

The conscience is part of the mind, an effect of the mind. This is well known...so what's your point?


You are walking in circles like usual. It`s no help to know that 3+1=2+2...

Do not confuse equivalent results with equivalent questions. :)


I want to know what`s the nature of conscience. It seems to be energy. That`s my point.

Okay, good.

Conscience is a growth of the mind.
E=MC^2 means that matter and energy are equivalent.
The mind is a growth of the brain.
The brain is made out of matter.
Therefore, conscience is made out of energy.

I agree.
What's your point?


However, I did not said that we are matter. WE ARE NOT MATTER. I hope that everyone here knows that...

We aren't matter?


If we were matter, we would be as dead as a chair or a table.

Why is this?


We are a conscience. We are just limited in a body that is made of matter, but we are not the matter...

Conscience does not equal soul.


It grows. It follows light. It reproduces. It lives.

Life is not the same thing as consciousness.

Truthseeker,

<i>Matter is a kind of energy.</i>

I say it isn't.

<i>However, I did not said that we are matter. WE ARE NOT MATTER. I hope that everyone here knows that...We are a conscience.</i>

So a "conscience" is not matter? What is it, then?

<i>[A tree] grows. It follows light. It reproduces. It lives.</i>

You avoided the issue. I said there's no evidence it has any consciousness.

Noooooooooo...... don't do it..... don't take the bait guys.... just ignore him......

I see he's still here, after grandly announcing his departure, and people are still wasting time trying to get him to try to see anything from another point of view. I get the impression he picks a forum and then "meditates" on a topic until some kind of BS comes to him and then he sees if anyone will justify his effort. This is the man who called Stephen Hawking a mysticist without even reading his books. Eventually, if he learns that no one wants to play his dumb games anymore, he'll go away, or try to figure out what he's doing wrong. I don't hold out any hope for the latter. I don't think this is an ad hominem attack, and I don't aim to prove that he's stupid or inferior, it's just that if he consistently posits sloppy thinking, and efforts to correct this have proven worthless, then he should be discouraged from posting here. This is a Science forum, and logical discourse should be encouraged. This person, from what I've seen, rarely cites any research or discusses current theory in any field, rather he just thinks that his own "theories" are worth talking about. Flaming and emoticons and quips and last-word-getting should be exiled to AOL chatland hell or some other such place where people troll for emotional response.

Please, for the love of science, ignore this person.

Just roll the window up and drive away.

John Le Coq

le coqu,


I see he's still here, after grandly announcing his departure, and people are still wasting time trying to get him to try to see anything from another point of view.

*cought...

Excuse me... but I

le coqu,


I see he's still here, after grandly announcing his departure, and people are still wasting time trying to get him to try to see anything from another point of view.

*cought...

Excuse me... but I came back because many people asked me to post again...


I get the impression he picks a forum and then "meditates" on a topic until some kind of BS comes to him and then he sees if anyone will justify his effort.

I don`t do that...


This is the man who called Stephen Hawking a mysticist without even reading his books.

Ii called his ideas ´scientific mysticism` as he doesn`t prove anything that he says. However, you blindly believe in him just because he is a f****** famous scientist... :o


I don't hold out any hope for the latter.

No comments...:bugeye:


I don't think this is an ad hominem attack, and I don't aim to prove that he's stupid or inferior, it's just that if he consistently posits sloppy thinking, and efforts to correct this have proven worthless, then he should be discouraged from posting here.

Are you sure you are not attacking me?


This person, from what I've seen, rarely cites any research or discusses current theory in any field, rather he just thinks that his own "theories" are worth talking about.

What do you want me to cite? Webpages...?
I always discuss current theories... that`s where my ideas come from... I also cited many modern theories like the brane theory, multiverse and so on...


James R,


I say it isn't.

So what is that:
E=mc^2??


So a "conscience" is not matter? What is it, then?

Eenergy. Like matter, it is an energy. Tthe problem nowdays is that people thinks that energy is made of matter while the Truth is that it works in the other way around. The matter is made of energy and so is our conscience...


You avoided the issue. I said there's no evidence it has any consciousness.

No I didn`t. What I was trying to say is that our living beings are conscient. That doesn`t mean that they are self-conscient (not all of them are self-conscient...), but they are conscient of their surroundings. For example: a victim and a predator. The victim realizes that the predator is watching, so it runs away. the victim is conscient of the predator. Social animalsmight also be self-conscient, as there is a differentiation between itself, and the others of the group. Like elephants, for example.

Xev,


Firstoff, your posts do seem to have evolved a bit. You're growing a thicker skin and learning to insult.

If it were so, you would be doing a good job as a teacher. But you are not a good teacher of insultism...


The conscience is part of the mind, an effect of the mind. This is well known...so what's your point?

No, it is separed. Pay attention to your thoughts. Can you compare them with just matter?


Conscience is a growth of the mind.
E=MC^2 means that matter and energy are equivalent.
The mind is a growth of the brain.
The brain is made out of matter.
Therefore, conscience is made out of energy.

I agree.
What's your point?

My point is that people still think that conscience is made out of matter... Even you, as I can see in your first quote...


We aren't matter?

No. We are energy.


Why is this?

Matter cannot sustain itself without a conscient energy (life)...
It decomposes without life.


Conscience does not equal soul.

For sure it doesn`t...


Life is not the same thing as consciousness.

Then show me why...
Because my point is the exact opposite of that (if you read the title you can easily see that...)

Nelson:
"If it were so, you would be doing a good job as a teacher. But you are not a good teacher of insultism..."

It is so. You're changing.

"No, it is separed. Pay attention to your thoughts. Can you compare them with just matter?"

Yes. My thoughts are chemical/electrical signals.

"No. We are energy."

Energy and matter are equivalent....E=mc^2.

Perhaps you should define "energy", though, just so we're on the same page?

"Matter cannot sustain itself without a conscient energy (life)...
It decomposes without life."

Not exactly, but very close.

Matter/energy is neither created nor destroyed. However, living matter cannot remain alive without, well, life.

"Then show me why..."

Life and consciousness are two different terms.

Life is basically the ability to reproduce, grow and hold out against entropy (disorder).

Consciousness is knowledge of one's own existance - the knowedge that "I exist".

Excuse me... but I came back because many people asked me to post again...

Where ? Who ? I saw nothing of the sort.

Are you sure you are not attacking me?

You seem to under the delusion that everyone is out to get you. Don't be so paranoid.

I always discuss current theories... that`s where my ideas come from... I also cited many modern theories like the brane theory, multiverse and so on...

Perhaps, but they were your own theories not based on any scientific observations. Your ideas were wrought from an overactive imagination.

My point is that people still think that conscience is made out of matter... I think that maybe our consciousness (or some part of it) may lay in the electromagnetical field of our brain.....just a theory, I don't insist on it.



I'm bored, I can't find Salvia Divinorum anywhere in this damn country, through my hardware runs free electricity (0.3w) and I can't find my favourite cd and I have to finish one web project ~ in 4 days..........I'd love to suspend my brain for a few days...where's the switch?

Trusthseeker- you say that life/conciousness is energy, not matter.
I disagree, but before I shout about why, could you please state exactly what you mean by the term 'energy' IMO it gets confused far to often.

Sublime Trigger,

Energy for me is the same energy for you.
All that I'm trying to do here is to show that conscience is most probably a different kind of energy, like matter is. It seems that everyone think that everything is matter. It doesn't seem so. See how many kinds of energy there are...!

Besides that, conscience has some properties that matter don't have. It seems more evolved than matter. I don't believe conscience is any kind of energy science knows.

yay Nelson.....you're back.. e-mail me...how are you now... ...maybe we even could continue our discussion:):):) bye

Umm.. Truth Seeker ;)

I'm going over the way you use the term conscience..
I was just wondering ..for the purpose of clarification to some of the other guys and gals here..
If the term WILL is somewhat the concept you're trying to portray..
I mean that is.. we as humans possess the power of will which is very hard to define in terms of matter nowadays..
..so *cough* ..
lets see if my interjection stirs anyone :confused:
Talk to ya neurons later..

Yes... perhaps WILL is the word for it..
But also conscience... like knowing that you exist...
Like... life seems so rare in this universe that it might be something completly different from inconscient things...
Even if we had life in all planets it would be rare, as the distances are so great.

I just find life way too different then objects and everything else. It's not very common. Does anyone agree with that?

i think a precise definition of "life" is in order.

life (http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=life)

There is order in the whole universe. Maybe the universe is alive... ;)
The dictionary definition is not enough...

I still think life is something that we (or maybe you...) are far from understanding...

"In all chaos there is cosmos,
in all disorder a secret order."
-C.G. Jung

If you are a good person good things will come you way.
Never do things with the intentions of gaining benefit.
The Universe will always tempt you but you must have a strong will.
Your purpose here is to evolve, grow, spread life and love everywhere.

If you are a good person good things will come you way.
Never do things with the intentions of gaining benefit.
The Universe will always tempt you but you must have a strong will.
Your purpose here is to evolve, grow, spread life and love everywhere.

I tried that long ago and found that my bills weren't being paid so I started to work for pay instead of just trying to help everyone else out for nothing. I was not expecting anything in return for my good deeds but soon found that people were just "using" me and manipulating my kindness to give them something for nothing. They saw my kindness as a weakness from their point of view and took advantage of me for awhile.