View Full Version : Majocracy the power of people not the politicians.
03-27-04, 06:10 AM
Believe it or not this is going to be the politicians worst nightmare come true. I donít see any problems with this idea becoming our future governance.
We can vote from any phone or net to a voting machine with our own Password and give our vote from any safe place while the voting center will be a heavily guarded one as there will be only one for a huge area reducing the election cost.
Hey but I havenít told u the worst part yet, we donít require any voting day for this system so it is possible to change our vote anytime and as manytimes as we want. As soon as we see misuse of power by the person we voted for, he will be gone out of government for good; In fact we wont even require any political groups to pull each other if u think about this very carefully, but only hierarchy where we decide and politicians do their job. Our decsion can be challenged by anybody for legal grounds. Remember that its the law that will allow the rule of majority, hence decision of majority cannot be above law as that will be majority based autocracy.
There is something yet powerful we can do with this technique: we read news (anywhere), this news can have a code associated with it and then people can decide whether they agree with or not by voting for it. Same can be applied for every other policy, we no longer would need processions or demonstrations to fight for our rights.
There can be a site called whistleblowers.org where we can report corruption. And force investigators to do their job and then we will decide.
07-22-04, 08:40 AM
How come no one has any say on the future world political model that I have gifted to humans in this forum ?
07-22-04, 10:34 AM
<shivering>. Frightening to think the same guy who managed to steal my credit card number could be the same guy who could steal my voting password and vote for George Bush <shivers even more>. Not to mention every time a politician was caught in an affair (in Chicago a man running for senate, Jack Ryan, had to quit the race when the Chicago Tribune reported that he wanted to have sex with his own WIFE in night clubs), we would vote him out of office.
You make an interesting point by using the internet or the phone though, considering that we do not have a real democracy in this country on the grounds that it would have been impossible during the writing of the constitution. True democracy has the citizens vote on every law that is considered, not just electing politicians to represent us. With modern technology this idea may be possible, but I can't imagine people caring enough to vote about the new neighborhood leash law when they can't be bothered to vote for the president <sigh>
07-22-04, 01:52 PM
Sorry, Tank. I must have been on vacation or something like that when your posting came out. I usually just search for "New Posts." Thanks to Towards for putting it back in the headlines.
I think your idea has a lot of merit. The "representative democracy" created by the U.S. constitution certainly does not seem to be adaptable to modern times.
However, your model has its own problems. One of the key advantages of a system like the one we have is that it makes it difficult for fads to become law. Just take a look at my state, California, with its popular initiative mechanism. Caught up in the sweet rhetoric of demagogues, the people have enacted some really crappy legislation. The state is on the verge of bankruptcy because of two initiatives that were passed. One limits property taxes, the main source of income for all state and municipal agencies including school boards, to one of the lowest rates in the nation. The other dictates that a certain percentage of the state's income be spent on specific programs, leaving the rest of the government's activities underfunded.
Somebody famous once said, "An educated populace is the cornerstone of democracy." If that's true, and I believe it is, this would be the worst possible time in the history of America to try to give the people more control over their government. College graduates can't read above the fifth-grade level. High school graduates can't make change for a dollar. Membership in the fundamentalist retro-religions is skyrocketing. Until a few weeks ago, the majority believed that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. They drive wobbly two-ton trucks that get 7 mpg -- to buy groceries. They petition state governments to establish commissions to regulate professional wrestling "like the other sports." Do you really want to give these oafs even more power to control your life?
Frightening to think the same guy who managed to steal my credit card number could be the same guy who could steal my voting password and vote for George Bush.Computer security is going to mature soon, or else the world's so-called information infrastructure is going to collapse. Biometric technology is on the verge of affordability. You'll identify yourself with your fingerprint or retina scan. A scary scenario indeed, but a population that meekly takes its belt and shoes off to board an airliner and watches ordinary people do ordinary things on "reality" shows obviously no longer gives a damn about privacy.
Not to mention every time a politician was caught in an affair (in Chicago a man running for senate, Jack Ryan, had to quit the race when the Chicago Tribune reported that he wanted to have sex with his own WIFE in night clubs), we would vote him out of office.That was a special case. The (now ex-) wife in question is Jeri Ryan, the beloved "Seven of Nine" from Star Trek: Voyager, a far more public figure than her husband. The issue wasn't that he wanted to take her to sex clubs, rather that he kept insisting on it after she bravely went to one and said never again. He took her on a dream vacation to France, supposedly to patch things up, but when they arrived she discovered that the hotel he booked was a swingers' hangout. The only reason this became public record is that she submitted it as grounds for divorce. Guys are lining up to take a punch at the man who dishonored their idol. He'll have to change his name and move to Estonia. This story was printed in every major newspaper in the country, perhaps in the world. Screw around with Star Trek at your peril!
True democracy has the citizens vote on every law that is considered, not just electing politicians to represent us.Yes, and it works well at the community level, where everyone feels a bond to everyone else. A city of about 20,000 people. At larger levels it turns into majoritarianism, or "tyranny of the majority." If a political unit the size of the U.S. were a true democracy, Judaism, Islam, and having dark skin would be illegal.
With modern technology this idea may be possible, but I can't imagine people caring enough to vote about the new neighborhood leash law when they can't be bothered to vote for the president.Help me understand why those people should vote at all. I would not allow anyone to vote on an issue until they answered about five questions to prove that they have a minimal understanding of it. That would be trivial to implement. There are a lot of Americans who think Idaho is a country in the Middle East, probably because it starts with an I. I'm not comfortable living among them, but I'll be damned if I'll encourage them to help elect my government.
That's kind of how we got here, isn't it?
07-22-04, 02:56 PM
So are you saying remove the senators and representatives and just leave the people to do everything in a direct democracy?
07-22-04, 07:39 PM
No, I certainly do not believe a direct democracy would work. The U.S. founding fathers knew this, and even with greater education, it would end in utter failure, simply because it is impossible to stay informed about all of the possible ballots. It is interesting to examine the fact that technology could make it a possiblility though.
07-24-04, 05:21 AM
U seem 2b from the lost generations;
Havent U heard about SF Goverment ?
I am all for suspending most space exploration(excepts Hubble and other telescopes) and use the recourses to improve our energy situation back on good'ol earth. Then I think we should improve our system for spotting and defending against asteroids. What is the point of exploring space if we either kill each other over energy or get wiped out by an asteroid?
01-07-05, 04:20 PM
the expansion of the Sun that will incinerate Earth, is 5 billion years in the future.
We have to get out. Maybe an asteroid will hit before that
We have to get out! Spread the seeds to other floating rocks.
01-08-05, 03:40 AM
How come no one has any say on the future world political model that I have gifted to humans in this forum ?
Because I have said something similar before.
The idea is of course technically perfectly feasible, but the problems are:'
1. people are afraid of having responsibilty. Or rather they are afraid that their neighbour has any. They'd rather have a corrupt politician who will never do anything radical.
2. The current power lies within a small group of people, whose lives are supported by an enormous bureacracy. They will never give up their power, nor will their supporting bureacracy be willing to give up their livelyhood.
But I am all for it. Hand me the phone.
People being able to decide everything on a whim would cause terrible problems. In UK we manage this problem by having the house of lords - not a perfect solution, but mostly it works.
I have a better model to offer: lets see how it goes...
There are political groups, but instead of voting for one party to run everything, people vote for one of the available groups for each subject area. That way people can have their favoured party's say on each area, which would be rather better, but they dont have the ability to micromanage that which they know little about, and thus screw everything up.
So for example to run the war there would be maybe 3 groups to choose from,
to decide on taxation there would be a few groups to choose from
ditto for each subject basically.
This would break the power of the political party system to a fair extent, and allow people's choices to be represented, both good things imho.
01-12-05, 04:22 AM
Oh come on, this thread should have been derailed with one simple word.
If anyone does not know the substantial failure of that boon-doggle, well, you don't belong here right?
03-08-06, 12:24 PM
1. people are afraid of having responsibilty.... There is a silent revolution going on on Net regarding this, its called "mailing lists";
Millions of people are now involved.
Heres a small, very small, example :
"NewMexico 2004ForKerry" <NewMexico_for_Kerry@yahoogroups.com>, "30SomethingGang@yahoogroups.com" <30SomethingGang@yahoogroups.com>, "CronyismNOBidContracts AndShamAppointments" <Cronyism_NO_Bid_Contracts_and_Sham_Appointments@ya hoogroups.com>, "Media AztlanFreePress" <Aztlan_Freepress@yahoogroups.com>, "Media BanglaVision" <email@example.com>, "Kick BUSH" <Kick_Bush@yahoogroups.com>, "Against BushBeGone" <Bush_Be_Gone@yahoogroups.com>, "2004 BushCaliforniaWatch" <2004BUSHCaliforniaWatch@yahoogroups.com>, "NEO CON-MUNIST" <Neo_Con_Munists@yahoogroups.com>, "Media ConservativeReleases" <MediaConservativeReleases@yahoogroups.com>, "D_ABC_Cops@yahoogroups.com" <D_ABC_Cops@yahoogroups.com>, "CivilDisObediance DANCE" <CivilDisobedienceDialogueAlertsNewsConciousnessEve firstname.lastname@example.org>, "SpyingAndLying Dictatorial" <email@example.com>, "2004 El Paso BUSH Watch" <2004ElPasoanBUSHWatch@yahoogroups.com>, "Media EndMediaCensorship" <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "ERADICATE_THE_CANCER_TUMOR_OF_THE_PLANET@yahoogrou ps.com" <ERADICATE_THE_CANCER_TUMOR_OF_THE_PLANET@yahoogrou ps.com>, "YoungRepublicans EvilEmpireSeeds" <email@example.com>, "Gang of 14" <GangOf_14@yahoogroups.com>, "GroverNorquistSpeaks@yahoogroups.com" <GroverNorquistSpeaks@yahoogroups.com>, "Mestizaje ImmigrationInformation" <MestizajeImmigrationInformation@yahoogroups.com>, "Media JournalisticXhiavoismo" <JournalisticXchiavoismo@yahoogroups.com>, "Media MasterBaitingPundits" <MasterBAITingPundits@yahoogroups.com>, "MediaReleases" <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "2006 MidTermElections" <2006MidTermElections@yahoogroups.com>, "LawEnforcementAndMilitary MissionCreep" <email@example.com>, "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com>, "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com>, "2004 NewMexicoBUSHWatch" <2004NewMexicanBushWatch@yahoogroups.com>, "Mestizaje News" <MestizajeNEWS@yahoogroups.com>, "Issues OnLine" <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "TakingItAwayfrom PFAandMFA" <TakingItAwayfromPFAandMFA@yahoogroups.com>, "DrafttheRichKidsAND PoliticiansKidsFirst" <DraftTheRichKidsAndPoliticiansKidsFirst@yahoogroup s.com>, "Goverment Rant" <GovRant@yahoogroups.com>, "Media RedHerringNews" <RedHerringNews@yahoogroups.com>, "MediaAztlan Releases" <Aztlannet_News@yahoogroups.com>, "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "SupremeCourtNominee The Next" <TheNextSupremeCourtNominees@yahoogroups.com>, "Bush TheLies" <TheLies@yahoogroups.com>, "Mestizaje ThinkTANK" <MestizajeThinkTank@yahoogroups.com>, "MeCha USA" <email@example.com>, "VIP" <PoliticalVIPs@yahoogroups.com>, "ShootMyDog VoteToImpeach" <vote_to_impeach_or_i_will_shoot_my_dog@yahoogroups .com>, "WHIP_OR_WIL@yahoogroups.com" <WHIP_OR_WIL@yahoogroups.com>, "StopTheNew WorldOrder" <StopTheNewWorldOrder@yahoogroups.com
03-08-06, 12:29 PM
Vote to impeach or I will shoot my dog? Nice.
03-10-06, 10:53 AM
Humans cant grasp This thread it seems. Its like giving a good technology 1000 years earlier.
Its like the fact that electricity was know to man for 1000s of years but ....