In the Chop Socky movies, there are several moves involving kicking an opponent in the face or the side of the head.

A really long time ago, I was won a college conference wrestling championship. I was also trained in Jui Jitsu, which has no attacking moves, but is pretty effective against most attacking moves.

If somebody tried to kick me in the face back then, I think I would have owned him, unless his reflexes where superhuman. Attempting to kick somebody in the face seems to result in a vulnerable posiition, making any of several countermoves easy.

I am not sure that somebody could get away with trying to kick me in the face now, and I am old, out of shape, & much slower than I was 60 years ago.

Are the Chuck Norris like moves practical in real combat? Are they perhaps reserved for the final blow, when an opponent is already in bad shape?

Their useless. In my experience at least.

Often attempted by the lower-level set-type martial artists. If you take a good style (such as Jui Jitsu or Kung-Fu---which is the one I took) you learn to take advantage of this kind of move. Like you said.

Their useful if you're fighting someone much worse than you and you have a good amount of speed and confidence up on them. A friend of mine put it really well 'often the winner is whoever has the most balls'. If you show huge confidence against someone who isn't sure of his/her fighting abilities, than this type of move can be used. But again, I rarely if ever use it.

I took Tae Kwon Do for a bit and, although we did concentrate quite a bit on kicks, it was beyond easy to sweep the supporting leg or move in for an upclose-and-personal confrontation.

I see the martial arts movies where the hero/villain is doing a roundhouse to the side of the head and I can't help but think they're saying to their opponent, "Now, I can't telegraph this next kick any better than showing you that I'm bringing my leg up and around to the side of your head."

The only time I could see using such a technique would be if you're kicking for the groin first, then quickly swivel-kick to the upper body.

'Course, since I've never been in a fight in my entire life, I wouldn't know for sure.

But, hey, what about that Jet Li!

Thanks!

prag

I have kicked in a face in one or two tournaments (yeah, I'm in Taekwon-Do also) because it gives 2 points (1 with a hand), but it is very unpractical in a real life combat. In these you wouldn't like to kick higher than stomach (my instructor also says tht). With the high kicks the problem is that you remain uncovered and easy to fall: the key success in a successful high kick is speed. If you do it real fast and take your leg back even faster then it can be done although also highly unadvisable in real-life combats.

They look useless too. Never let yourself be vulnerable. Especially when attacking.

I know a lot about martial arts I just wish people would post more about it. Anyway, the high kicks to the head in general are useless unless practicing against a style which uses them also, I.E. you may see it a lot (in comparison to other styles) in a Taekwon-Do match (as Avatar said). The only real good time to pull off a kick to the face is when your oppenet has attempted a strike (possibly simmiliar one) in which he failed and is left prone, still however, it must be done at lightning quick speed.

However, against a grappler striking is useless. Knowing wrestling and Jui-Jitsu means you would have owned someone who just punched and kicked anyway, even easier if he started with a poor move like that which leaves him so open for attack, especially a wrestling takedown.

P.S. I've talked about how much grappling I've studied on this site before, but I also wrestle for the High School team. Just started this year.

I have taken martial art,and my master taught us that for every move there is a counter, and that is true, a kick to the head can be and is used to finish an opponent off, as kicks can be stopped with ease if you are good enough, plus, Tyler, your friend was wrong the winner is not the one with the biggest balls,as there is no winner in a fight, Dinosaur age is only a number, and fitness can be got back dont put your self down, to fight on a mat in a comp, is totally different than in a real life fight, on the mat you have a ref, your opponent goes down or you win a point,the fight is stopped,you return to the start, in real life you dont have a ref,so kicks can be harder to do in the real fight, but they can still be blocked.

TKD mach isn't stopped if smone gains a point! we have a great fun with this when we have torunaments particepating guys from Karate. They stop after they hit us and stand like idiots (newbies) and we just keep on hitting. they have also theis reflex to stop after a hit.

(are you kidding about tht light contact. one of the karate guys was tragically killed last year:()

"I have taken martial art,and my master taught us that for every move there is a counter, and that is true, a kick to the head can be and is used to finish an opponent off, as kicks can be stopped with ease if you are good enough, plus, Tyler, your friend was wrong the winner is not the one with the biggest balls,as there is no winner in a fight, Dinosaur age is only a number, and fitness can be got back dont put your self down, to fight on a mat in a comp, is totally different than in a real life fight, on the mat you have a ref, your opponent goes down or you win a point,the fight is stopped,you return to the start, in real life you dont have a ref,so kicks can be harder to do in the real fight, but they can still be blocked."

A kick to the head is useless. There are much smarter ways to finish off an opponent. Although, the kick to the head is cool looking.

Kicks can be stopped with ease? What level do you participate in? Once you hit a high enough level, you realize there are people that can absolutely kick your ass no matter how good you think you are.

No winner in a fight? Well in real life the winner is whoever doesn't get killed or severly beaten. In a tournament the winner is (depending on which martial art) whoever gets to a point level the fastest. So I have no idea what you're talking about.

How many real life fights you been in?

AVATAR, I have not said anything about light contact, i have been in tournaments which have been full contact, and that is not fun, i have also been in real life fights, and that is not fun, i also have done TKD matches and i know the rules, i know four types of martial art, including kendo, i can adapt to most forms, and i am now learning a higher form from my old master, for the record i have come second as i think most of the martial artists have at some time, but i have come first as well,in both tournaments and real life.

I didn't say anything bad about you. I'm myself only a starter in this. And I know tht full contact is not fun... And street fights are the least fun...think- you might stumble on a knife...when need to go to high-risk areas as we with the friends call them- we always find someone to go with . Two is minimum....Four is good....10 - 15 is the best:) (we once did it (12 I think), when escorting one of our friends with a large sum of money to one pc equipment storage)


Today I was 2nd..... hope for a better mach next time.

AVATAR. You came second today, dont worry my friend you will come first, no matter how many times you come second, dont give up it is worth it in the end, you will become faster, and that it will benefit you in different ways, keep up the practice it does become easier honest.;)

Tyler,


Their useless.

This is grammatically incorrect. The correct is "They are useless."
.
.
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:D:D:D

Dinosaur,

I do Tai Chi. Believe me... it's much better. In Tai Chi you use the energy and movements of your opponent against him. It's very good... :)

Head kicks are worthless... better to throw the opponent at the wall or just throw him far away... :bugeye: :eek:

Love,
Nelson

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
In Tai Chi you use the energy and movements of your opponent against him. It's very good... :)

Ever heard of Aikido? - exact same prinicpal.

When my ship was in Thailand, this chap Tim McCann was wandering down the street ahead of the rest of us. A little Thai chap rushed out and started doing some stupid moves, swinging his arms around and shouting "Hah!" and crap like that. He said "Fuck you, white man! You going down!" or something like that. McCann just punched him once, in the face, knocked the guy out cold, and walked over him and kept on going down the street.

Another navy chap, Wells, was held by the shoulders against a wall by a HUGE biker dude. Wells just brought his foot up between them, kicked the guy in the chin and knocked him out cold. End of fight. Kicks to the head work.

My mistake nelson.

You've taken Aikido? Yeah I know too much Philosophy behind it but an incredible martial art.

Yeah, only we don't use mystical-mumbo jumbo like 'Chi' in Aikido.

Except in Aikido, it's referred to as 'ki'. Wish I could apply some circular reasoning behind that! Yeah, well, it was supposed to be funny.

Thanks!

prag

Actualy I think there is some truth to the concept of Ki, truely that is the center point of your body and when in motion the Aikido practitioner can use it against you quite well. However, the center of power concept leaves some scientific thought on the subject to be desired.

Ever heard of Aikido? - exact same prinicpal.

Yeah... I know... :)

Another navy chap, Wells, was held by the shoulders against a wall by a HUGE biker dude. Wells just brought his foot up between them, kicked the guy in the chin and knocked him out cold. End of fight. Kicks to the head work. I have been trying to visualize the above.

Big biker with hands on Wells' shoulders, pinning him to the wall. Foot comes up from ground and hits chin.

Was the biker a gorrilla with arms about 150 centimeters ( 60 inches) long?

I put my hands up against a wall and imagined kicking the wall at a spot between my hands. This is equvalent to what was described above.

It seems like quite a feat for a person with normal body proportions.

Bend ze kneez!

It still seems strange to me. Stand erect with your hands against a wall at about shoulder height. Now imagine kicking the wall at about the height of your chin.

I would like to see somebody do this.

BTW: If the biker was taller than Wells, it seems even more difficult.

I got it! The dude was amputated at the kneecap, right?

The biker dude was taller and larger than Wells. Wells was quite an experienced kickboxer and very flexible. I can get my own foot over six feet high from standing straight, but I have to stand about arm's length plus about 6 inches back from the wall. I'm not very flexible at all.

I'll believe it when I see somebody do it.

someone once told me that buuce-lee didn't like using kicks, as he thought it a too slow attack.

I assume that everybody here knows that the martial arts films use camera technology to make the action look faster than humanly possible.

I am not sure that the early martial arts films did this, but all the moeern ones do.

it depends of what you think is humanly possible. When human is in high stress condition he can do amazing things tht are not imaginable in normal state. Run faster thn possible, lift super-heavy things, jump from enormous heights. and tht all is scientifically recorded.

also- my instructor told he had seen one Taekwon-do master from Korea (one semminar) to do this thing- he was hitting so hard (with his hands) tht it could be heard. As if he hit through air.

Human has enormous possibilities, only they reveal in high-stress situations or with long and hard training. It has do do much with a state of ones brain. Body somehow switches to imposible state, when all concentration and all available energy is put into one thing.

and of course this isn't the case about the holiwood movies:p .. they speed up (Matrix;))

Saw a dvd a few days ago with best fights from the ultimate fighting championship, almost no kicks at all, just a few aimed low at their legs. Most of the fighters used a mix of boxing and wrestling. I was hoping for fancy kung fu moves though

try to get hold of Shaolin Soccer for a funny mix of kung fu and Soccer :)

Avatar: Human potential has often been underestimated, but I have never believed some of the stories told about incredible feats by ordinary people under stress.

I have often heard stories like the one about some woman who lifted a car to free her child who was pinned under it. Such stories are never verifiable. I think some such stories are outright fabrications, while others are based on some truth but exaggerated in the retelling. Perhaps some small compact car was on an incline and a small women was able to make it roll off of her child or husband by pushing it. As the story gets retold, the car gets bigger, the incline is forgotten, and she lifts the car with one hand, using the other to drag the child out from under.

The main reason I do not believe stories about incredible feats is that all the improvement in sports which can be measured has been incremental. Except for one unusual individual (see below), when a world record is broken it is by a small percentage. Except for one individual, no quantum leaps ever occurred. Yet the stories always tell of a feat unequaled by world class athletes, which would be a huge leap in the abilities of the ordinary person in the story.

When I was young, there were some estimates of how fast men could run, jump, throw things. Most of those predictions fell short of the current world records. Over the last 50-60 years running records have improved about 5% (100m) to 8% (mile) while the some jumping and throwing events have improved about 20%. Of course, the improvements were done a little at time.

The above suggests that technique has had a lot to do with the improvement in jumping and throwing, while running techniques were already just about right 50-60 years ago. If it takes 50-60 years for world class athletes to improve 5-20%, I just do not believe in the stories I have heard about extraordinary feats by ordinary people.

BTW: It probably does not make sense to compare modern times with records from more than 50-60 years ago. For various reasons many excellent athletes never got a chance to compete in the early half of the twentieth century, with racism being only one of the reasons. Also, athletes did not train as much back then, and the training methods were inferior.

The unusual individual mentioned above was Cornelius Wamberdam, a pole vaulter. When the world record was 14 feet ten inches (4.52 meters), he did 15 feet 8.5 inches (4.79 meters). No other improvement in a world record ever matched this percentage improvement. The current record is 20 feet 2 inches or 6.15 meters (as per year 2000 Almanac), but Wamberdam’s record was never broken. He did it with a bamboo (or maybe an early steel) pole. His record was broken by vaulters using fiberglass poles. The difference in equipment is such that the pole vault is no longer the same event. Those who compete today are a different type of athlete and might have trouble doing 13-14 feet (4.00 to 4.25 meters) with the pole Wamberdam used. Wamberdam might not have been able to do what he did if forced to use a modern fiberglass pole.

Reid: Glad to hear that grappling is effective in a free format competition. I always suspected that it could hold its own with oriental martial arts. I was always pretty sure it could handle a boxer who had no other fighting skills. At least, it was damn effective for me in a few encounters with boxer types, although I cannot claim that the boxer types I encountered were very good at anything they did.

The main reason I do not believe stories about incredible feats is that all the improvement in sports which can be measured has been incremental. but in sports it's never high stress situation.... have you noticed tht when a dog or some punk is chasing you, you are capable of incredable speeds (for you) and no tireing... your body switches to emerency power sources and burns calories like mad. and human body can produce much energy

Avatar: Perhaps some people underestimate what they can do. I would expect a non athlete to have little idea of how fast he could run when required to do so.
but in sports it's never high stress situation.... have you noticed tht when a dog or some punk is chasing you, you are capable of incredable speeds (for you) and no tireing... your body switches to emerency power sources and burns calories like mad. and human body can produce much energyWhen I was young, I could run 800 meters in well under 2 minutes, and could do 100 meters in 12-13 seconds (I was not a sprinter). On the few occasions when forced to run from a really bad situation I had no feeling of running faster than I had ever run before. In fact, I was aware of running slower because the incidents happened years after my last competitive race.

BTW: If forced to run from trouble, you better not try for top speed unless you only have to run about 100-200 meters to escape. Sprinting uses an anaerobic process which leaves you in terrible condition after about 150 meters at top speed.

Check the split times for 100 meters. World class sprinters reach their peak speed at about 70-80 meters. The last 20 meters of a 100 meter dash are slower than the previous 20 meters, because the anaerobic process is already causing a problem.

when in panic you don't count metres;)

and in panic you don't feel pain and don't feel tireness. It shows itself only later

the reason why u don't feel much pain, and u don't tyre so quickly when ur under stress is that when under stress (being scared) the body reslises more natrual chemicals that give u a quick improvment. so amazing feats may become true, although word by mouth does inhance the story.

but when u train for long peridos of time, your body gets used to this extra stress and does not relisce these chemicals as often. so a new sprinter on a big stage for the first time, feeling a bit scared may beat an althleat that hes done it many a time before.

as for kicking, it is usefull if you are fast enough and are experinced enough to know what you are doing. althought i havent seen meny people teach kicks in kung-fu styles

I have a question: you saw the movies where they beat up on each other for fave minutes. I don't know very much, but unless you pull the blows, I don't see how someone could not be flat on the ground after 2-3 roundhouse kicks to the head. Is this type of endurance possible, let alone practical?

Truley depends on where the kicks were aimed/how high they were. A not very strong well placed kick can end someone quickly.

With fear as a motivator, you might not notice pain.

However, if you attempt to run at top speed, you will slow down before you run 100 meters, and will be unable to run at all after about 150-200 meters.

You may not feel pain, but the anaerobic energy process used for sprinting will build up waste products from a combustion process and make your leg muscles almost useless in about 8 to 15 seconds. The anaerobic process creates waste products much faster than your blood stream can remove them.

Any claims to the contrary are nonsense. I have heard this type of myth many times, but never seen any real evidence of extraordinary performance under stress, fear, or emotional motivation.

If any of the stories were true, there would be some scientific documentation instead of anecdotes.

All that Tae Kwan Doe and karate is CRAP

Not even boxing is good because of lack of lower body skill. (Well Tyson could kill alot of people in one punch :D)

Brazalian Jiu Jitsu rules, any form of wrestling will beat any other martial arts. I wrestle, I have fought and i know. That jump kicking crap is useless.

Watch Ultimate Fighting the first 10 series. You'll see exactly what I mean.

watch out with that crap like thing. you might get kicked hard:bugeye: and Taekwon-Do is not all about jumping, idiot.

I agree that grappling is the best type of system of martial arts. I think you're right to be pissed Avatar. ~The_Chosen~ That is blatant disrespect for other martial arts, and bull shit. So I say peace out all strikers including tae kwon do. Sorry for a dick to be representing grappling.

PEace out from JArrod.

This is to ~THE-CHOSEN~ i have been in ful contact fights, fights on the streets, and i can beat any wrestler at any time, i would not even work up a sweat,as for jump kicking i dont need to jump kick i can get you in the head from a standing posistion, with out a problem, so you can keep your wrestling and stick it were the sun dont shine.

tomorrow I have a taekwon-do exam. It's very serious and I can particepate only once a year. I'm so nervous. Normally I'm very proud tht I can control my emotions, but this time it seems I can't switch it off. It hasn't been like this in no other exam, even in the math test which I had previously this year. tht particular exam was a key factor to my further education. and now- I can not find the cause . Maybe it sits smwhere in my subconsciousness. Anywayz, do al you gurus know of a method tht I can remove this very nervous feeling inside me.
Don't advice me any chemicals, please. Oh and nothing tht takes long. I've got a lot to study and repeat.

meditation???
I just tried. It appears tht I'm very deeply disturbed by this exam. At the instant I cosed my eyes and relaxed I was falling with great speed down down down. I was falling through dark clouds. very disturbing.

Blastoff: Unless you are one of the top ten in the world at whatever you do, the following is a display of ignorance, arrogance, or self delusion (perhaps all three).
i can beat any wrestler at any time, i would not even work up a sweat, as for jump kicking i dont need to jump kick i can get you in the head from a standing posistion, with out a problem, so you can keep your wrestling and stick it were the sun dont shine.A person with world class reflexes and coordination can win using an inferior method over an opponent with lesser physical capabilities. I am sure there are grapplers in this world that could beat you. Many of those you could beat would give you some trouble, so your above remark is nonsense.

Grappling might not be the best method, but is highly effective, especially if the grappler has some knowledge of what to expect from his opponent. Grapplers have often done well against other forms of martial arts. Combined with other methods, it has got to be formidable.

50 or so years ago, I would expect to be able to handle most boxers because I was a damn good grappler with some knowledge of other martial arts. However, in that era, I would not expect to be able to handle Sugar Ray Robinson, who was considered (at that time) one of the best boxers who ever lived: Pound for pound that is. He was a middle weight & nobody would expect him to beat a fast heavy weight, although he might win on points. If I managed to beat him the first time we met, I would know it was the element of surprise and would not expect to beat him in a rematch.

While I considered my methods superior to boxing, I had no delusions about what would happen against somebody with world class reflexes and coordination, when I was just a damn good college grappler. You sound like somebody who has beat up on some fish in a small pond and will someday learn a painful lesson.

As for kicking somebody in the face or head, it still does not look like a good method to me. After reading some of the replies to this thread and asking some questions at a martial arts studio, I have become convinced that trying to kick a competent opponent in the face or head is likely to be very embarrassing and painful for the kicker.

i think wrestling is a very bad way of wining a fight. and only works if the other person has no idea what he is doing.
i think most experinced people would not kick someone in the head as there first attact.
i think someone just running and trying to hold u, is very stupid.
u want to keep the other person as far as possible while still attking.

Well first off, what I call grappling is grappling/submission techniques such as Sambo, Shootfighting, Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, etc. Pure grappling such as wrestling really may not be the best thing cut out for real-life confrontations. However, Grappling (Submission arts) is in my opinion far superior to striking, no it isn't stupid attempting to throw or takedown your opponant when they are strikers and not skilled in the clinch position. I recommend watching UFC 1-6 for further incite into grappling though only a very limited look.

However, I feel a lot of love/respect for anyone in the martial arts/ every martial art. Blatant bad remarks from either side of this argument shouldn't be tolerated.

SO as I said before, peace out. Strikers or Grapplers its all good.

When I was 24 years old, I went to a Karate dojo to learn Karate Do. The sensei was Miyazato, second in the rank of senseis of the Okinawa schooll (the master was Miyahira, which I came to know many years after). The first question Miyazato asked me was: <b>"Why do you want to learn Karate?"</b>. I said: <b>"To defend myself better"</B>. Then Miyazato gave me the best advice I ever got in the defense business: <b><font color=red>"Get a .45. It is much better."</font></B>

As I already was an expert at defense shooting, I tended to agree with him. I later took "Hand-to-Hand" combat in the Army (as a Commando in the Argentine Army) and found that the best defense is still an automatic Colt .45 (now it is a Steyr .40), and it has served me well. Most of the times for scaring guys away. But military Hand-to-Hand combat is quite useful when you have not a gun, as I experienced.

In 1972 I was attacked by two "junkies" in the Greenwich Village in New York, and one of them pressed the tip of a switchblade on my throat, asking for the money. I saw both of them were "high" on drugs; I wheigthed my chances and raised my hands while saying "Wait, don't get nervous, I'll give you the money", and then I hit his right wrist (with my right hand) while hitting his elbow with my left hand. The elbow broke and the knife went to the street. A split seconf after, I threw a side kick to the other guy's knee, that also broke off. Both of them remained in the floor yelling and screaming in pain.

I did a 100 yard dash in less than 10 seconds and disappeared from the scene. I didn't wait for the cops to show up: they were junkies, but they were Americans, and I was a miserably foreign tourist that would have a lot of explaining to do.

I don't like fights, I rather look as a coward before getting into any argument, but if somebody actually attacks me, he will be rewarded with an unpleasant surprise. I never go out without my 15 round, .40 cal Steyr, although in a bar fight, the best weapon (besides a Champagne bottle) is a 1 liter beer bottle in the side of the head.

Originally posted by Edufer

In 1972 I was attacked by two "junkies" in the Greenwich Village in New York, and one of them pressed the tip of a switchblade on my throat, asking for the money. I saw both of them were "high" on drugs; I wheigthed my chances and raised my hands while saying "Wait, don't get nervous, I'll give you the money", and then I hit his right wrist (with my right hand) while hitting his elbow with my left hand. The elbow broke and the knife went to the street. A split seconf after, I threw a side kick to the other guy's knee, that also broke off. Both of them remained in the floor yelling and screaming in pain.

This is part of what I mean when I mentiona big difference between civilian martial arts and military. The civilians here discuss which trend or style is better versus which other trend or style. In the military you learn to take someone apart first, before they can do it to you. Not grab them and win by getting them to say "Uncle", not block because you watched Bruce Lee movies, but actually taking them apart.

Large blunt or sharp metal objects will, I think, do well to discourage someone from messing with you, The only thing that works better is, as Edufer said, a high-velocity deflagerant-powered projectile launcher available.

Once again I must point out that submission techniques are far better than army training. Submission is effective in real-life confrontations and as a matter of fact is one of the only martial art in which people are taught to defend themselves in real-life situations (not just sparring) all the time. The only downside is typically no instruction in disarming weapons, that is a problem.

We must remember that all so-called "martial arts" were born and developed by pheasants in China, Japan and Korea, during the periods of the great Emperors and feudal masters, who forbade them to keep any weapons at home for defending themselves from their oppressors and their tax collectors. That way, many agrarian tools were transformed and converted into weapons as the nunchaku, for instance.

They also developed the "bare hand" combat (or Karate Do) for using against well armed troops that were trained in fighting in the traditional way: spears, swords, bows and arrows, etc, but did not know how to react against a new and unconventional and effective way of fighting.

So, martial arts were developed as a need for <b>a fast and effective way of putting down an enemy.</b> They could not take the chance of not immobilizing or rendering useles and enemy, because when you face an enemy with a letal weapon, <b>you must kill or disable him</b>, or you are killed. So martial arts were directed to efectiveness in their beginning. Later they became more "spiritual", and finally they became a philosophy, a way of living, a way to behave. That's good, <b>as long it is performed in dojos and tournaments</b>, where your life is not at stake. In real life, <b>you kill, or you are killed</b>. It all depends in which side of the "food chain" you want to be. As a gourmet, or as food.

Well some martial arts devoloped in ancient Greece, such as pancration the first submission art. Also Akido was devoloped in about the 50's I believe in Japan along with a philosophy in which one would immobilize then leave the oppenent not kill. Also various hybrid martial arts have been derived by the originals. Anyway I agree with you that is why once again I stand by submission arts and vale tudo tournaments. THe same skills used in the dojo are used on the street either to immobilize, injure, or kill the opponet. I feel most modern martial arts with the exception of submission arts, ninjutsu, jeet-kune-do and various others have become deluded over time and are barely street effetive. Once again not saying anything against other martial arts, its a major hobby of mine and I think any participation in the arts is cool. The only martial art I feel completely useless is Karate, must of it is so watered down and Kata base any skilled street fighter could finish them.

Incidentely to find out more about submission arts go to:

www.mma.tv

or rent/buy UFCs, 1-6. Or if you can find it Gracie Ju-Jitsu in Action 1 or 2 (I prefer 2)

I agree with you. Submission art seems to be the adequate thing to use today in the street, because we live in system full of the so-called "human rights". (My opinion is all rights needed by humans and animals are in the Constitution and other law codes, and if enforced as they should, there wouldn't exist Human Rights Watch and other political organizations using the issue for intruding in small countrie's internal affairs).

If you take out a gun in public you'll run into a lot of trouble, not to mention the trouble you'll have if you actually use it and injure or kill somebody. Using your bare hands is less likely to lead you into trouble with the law, depending on the injuries you cause, or if the Judge finds out you are a martial art expert or a boxer: this make your hands lethal weapons.

Best advice: if you see trouble coming, just fly. Stay away from fights. As the Italians used to say during Second World in Africa, when German officers accused Italians of running away under British attacks: "Soldato che fuge, serve para un' altra volta" --<b>Soldier than runs, is useful for another instance...</b>

It is also claimed that Marechale Badoglio said to a German General that complained Italian soldiers were flying away: "They fly, but they fly like lions". :D :D

This idea that all martial arts came from China is pru bullshit. I didn't know any sentient people went in for that Beijing Cinema crap still.

What is a martial art? A combat/fighting technique. That's what the term "martial art" means.

Are you trying to say that Europeans NEVER fought each other at all prior to trade beginning with China?

Europe had armies of thoroughly organised and trained professional soldiers more than 2,500 years ago. You really think they just flailed wildly at each other like kids? Think about it!

Please, before you say "all martial arts came from China", go and read ANY history book!

And now a nifty link: http://www.geocities.com/the_creepy_thin_man/links.html

I fully agree that military style fighting is the most effective. And I know a few people tht I would like to meet soon after school. They are from latvian comandos and I have old relations with them. The army way is the most effective, because they do not do what is traditional or looks cool, they do that what is effective (many military services all over the world use sambo as their base technique). Some other people in my place would say tht Taekwon-Do was developed by General Chong Hong Hi (he dyed in the 15th of June:( ) during the 50s for the South Korean army. And it became an official training program for all their military. The problem here is this tht all the good moves are taught to you only when you get the black belt (all the grabs, brakes and such). And it is minimum 7years befor you can get a black belt. Therefore I plan to learn military techniques from those comandos, because no way I'm going to our army. People get killed there ( the old timers beat upnew comers, last year one was even killed) and the newbies are not taught the full program, only the special forces are.

Oh and I agree tht a good gun is the best defence. I would go for Desert Eagle or Luger (when they hit, they hit hard;) )

Once again I disagree that american military fighting style is the best, but Sambo (A art which I have studied throughly, my favorite personally) is extremely effective, but once again it is a submission art. Truthfully the more effective a martial art usualy the less pretty it is, thats another thing about submission arts they are extremely effective as I have said but when you show someone an example of it after you say you study martial arts they're like: "Cool, but what about all the kicking and shit can you l;ike do a spin kick or something.....etc" That kinda shit can get on your nerves. No It does not look cool, but it is the most effective and anyone that I've met that has said it looked gay or whatever and then fought me has immediately taken it back, gotten some respect. So yeah Submission is highly effective, second is probably military fighting I'd have to say (un;ess including Sambo), then third - I'm suprised no on mentioned Jeet-Kune-Do probably one of the more effective pure self defense arts.

What's that outfit that the Karate guys work out in called?

A Gi, Judo/Sambo/Brazilian Ju-Jitsu also use Gis however these are much heavier to improve gripping them, improve grappling with them.

CJ: if I had to put my money down, it would probably be on Akido. The throws have a distinct advantage over grappling, in that you are supposed to end up standing above an attacker, plus you're still usually holding onto some part of their body.

Admittedly, I'm not a fighter. the closest thing i've gotten to hand-to-hand combat was in 4th grade when some guy twice my size came at me and I tossed him over my shoulder (that was SO cool though). Frankly, I don't want to be in fights. They're bad. I mean, the only way you can get punched in the face is if you're in a fight, right?

Incidentally it's much easier to kick them in the face when someone's on the ground at your feet, too. ;) You know, if you just absolutely MUST kick someone in the face.

Or you could just play Tekken 4.

Dabok in Taekwon-Do...(sorry if the spelling is wrong, it's with a short "a" like in dUck)

Thanks Cactus Jack.

No prob Gifted, and to Riomacleod and everyone else, I feel that all martial arts are useful but going on and on about which style really isn't I don't feel now, some Bruce Lee quotes:

"I do not teach because I do not believe in styles anymore. I mean I do not believe that there is such a thing as, like, "the Chinese way"of fighting or the "Japanese way" of fighting...or whatever "way" of fighting, because unless a human being has three arms and four legs, there can be no different form of fighting. But, basically, we only have two hands and two feet. So styles tend to seperate man-because they have thier own doctrines and the doctrine became Gospel truth that you cannot change! But, if you do not have styles, if you say "here I am as a human being. How can I express myself totally and completely?"=now that way, you won't create a style because style is crystallization. That way (the opposite of style) is a process of continuing growth."

On why man is always more important than style
"Man is always in a learning process. Whereas "style" is a concluding, established, solidified something, you know? You cannpt do that because you learn every day as you grow on, grow older."

Basically my theory is (and Bruce Lees in other writtings) if you want to be a true martial artist study many arts and take the essence of them that you need to express/defend yourself correctly. And make them your own, be a man, a constantly learning and creating indvidual. Incorporate and change.

Just a little insight from a martial arts obssesed guy, Peace Out.
~Cactus.

you people havent the right to give opinions when you are lackina knowledge base and seem to have no real abilities. Even the people you know who you think have skill and talent are lacking. People can sprint longer than a min with the right fear behind them to drive them. A kicker can and will kick you in the head if hes good. Simple as that striaght up.:bugeye: The adrenalin surge stories are unplausible sometimes but super abilities are a fact when danger is present. Thats why a cornered martial artist with five guys around him is not someone you want to f with by all means. There is no one art better than another, its all in the individual fighter. JKD is the best because it is all of the arts.

I believe that you simply restated in a less cogent way some of the things I had been trying to express in this thread. Basically that man is more important than a style, that a street fighter could beat a 4th degree black belt, and that you should not limit yourself or disrespect others based upon their style.

Also, what do you mean by:

"you people havent the right to give opinions when you are lackina knowledge base and seem to have no real abilities. Even the people you know who you think have skill and talent are lacking."

Not only would I like this clarified but I would also like to understand how you know so much about the martial arts capabilities of all the members who have posted on this thread? And I am very confused by the: Even the people you know who you think have skill and talent are lacking. Statement

And finally, at the end of your post you almost contradicted yourself, you sad that there is no one, best style yet you claim: JKD is the best because it is all of the arts. Now I agree that the philosophies Bruce Lee based his Martial System are in agreement with our ideas on man is more important than style. But the simple act of creating a system is contradictory to this. And JKD practintioners will frequently be like practitioners of other styles and limit themselves to those teachings. I find this many times in life, when one individual throughout their lives is in a constant state of growth and learning and refining thier ideas and when they try to express this to others it simply ends up being another system that they would have rebelled against.

Anyway Peace Out

~Cactus

cactus jack, iwas by no means about to contradict myself, since as you understand jkd is not a style but an idea, not original in itself but better known to most. In consideration to my qoute about all the others here not having an opinion, this statement may be a little strong. Although when inferior fighters such as are undoubtbly here present an opinion about martial arts as a fact just because of there lack of ability, leads me to little choice. The reason i dont believe any of you even know anyone with enough ability to give a concrete opinion is that i doubt they know one of the top 10 fighters in the world. Thats what it takes to give a strong opinion. This is a position i will secure in a short time. Seemingly dillusional, maybe, maybe not. I do have a wide range of experience in the martial arts for someone of my age. I love grappling and am very skilled, yet i dont find grappling to ever be effective against a higher level fighter. I base my praise of myself on the fact that ive never lost a jiu-jitsu or wrestling match, ever. Not in class, not playing around, not in tournaments. Expect to be seeing my name. I believe however that this is even a weakness when compared to my striking ability. My jabs and striaght leads are hard to see and still harder to block. Im 60% kicker though and yes, i think i could kick each one of you in the head. Especially with my ubber powerful and deliciously quick front snap. One of thoughs in the mouth is not fun. As for knocking down the supporting leg, what about that huge thing still coming at you. And has no one failed to notice that savate doesnt require a balancing leg.Same with capoiera. Basically stated, telling my skills is evidence of my ability and right to give a valid opinion, not bragging. All who keep up with martial arts tournemants will be seeing me rising up out of nothing pretty soon, ive just begun. Whether the tourney be grappling or no. One more thing, although guns are an effective method of defending yourself, wouldnt it be cool if guns were made illegal to carry, therefore making martial arts more formidable. It does take away a little bit of are rights but is it not at everyones benefit. Of this i have no valid opinion so feel free to criticize. Everything i have said here about my abilities is completely true, as my character is not satisfied by false bragging, so take what i say in the light of truth if you will, dont come back with a yeah right, he dont know nothing.

haha long enough lol:)
Anyone email me here if you want to debate privaltely about martial arts. Its my life. (freefighter187@hotmail.com)

I think that there definitely are best styles, depending on what a person's goal is. Are you interested in self defense? Exercise? Competition? People get involved in martial arts for a lot of different reasons and some styles match up with particular goals better than others.

I agree that grappling styles seem to be the most effective but it really all depends on the individual. In reality bruce lee could have beaten the 3 best grapplers in history all at the same time. But he wasn't your average striker I suppose.

I've been in lots of real fights and the grab with one hand-pound with the other technique has worked well with similar sized opponents, the dance and sting technique has worked well with larger opponents, haven't lost yet, but I'm fully aware I could lose against anyone at anytime.
I try to avoid fights now I've grown up a bit.

did you not listen to what i said Dr. lou natic. Grabs are not truly effective against anyone who can really fight. You have either been lucky by far or youve been fighting people you know you can beat i think.i say this loving jiu jistu personally.

As for nasor, martial arts is by definition the art of fighting, there is no other degree. If people use it to exercise, then it is exercize, not martial arts. Self defense is still fighting and so are competitions. Not only that but did you not notice we were talking about opposing arts in combat, not exercise. :mad:

freefighter187/ i have trained with the ex european champion jeff bullock, i even beat him a few times, and i can kick in the head as well, i to am fast and have never lost a bout in a tournament, or on the mat, i now teach along side my master, but in these days there are some very strong up and coming fighters, on that you must agree.

in these days there are some very strong up and coming fighters.
On this i completly agree blastoff. This is because i am one of the very strong up and coming fighters. I am a strange class of fighter though. A big strong lightweight with tremendous speed. At 6' 2 , 170lbs i am extremely light for my height as a fighter.My weight doesnt reflect my strength though, currently benching up towards 300 and ive just recently begun lifting. Powerful legs to with a 600 lb squat is were i generate those kicks. Yet due to a relativly small muscle mass i retain much speed, even rely on it. Ive studied tae kwon doe, jiu-jitsu, jeet kun do, boxing and wing chun. This may seem arrogant but ever since i was little ive wanted to be the best fighter ever and thats my intent so i have no fear of these up and coming fighters, as i am the best of the bunch. This may seem all opinionary, but it wont in time.i understand you guys are all probably fighters in your own right but do you wake up thinking it, reading it watching it, training, learning, and desiring to be the best, not just good. I do but then im still in school so this is made difficult. :eek:

I have no intention or will to be the best in the arena
it's just my lifestyle, not a constest
doesn't mean that I can't kick ass though :p
just have another approach to it

I'm 1.73 m tall and 55kg in weight, work mostly on my speed

good for you avator,
speed is the greatest advantage a fighter can have against someone of equal skill. :)

Ok Ill break this down for you guys-

Im sure that at least some of you have heard of UFC or Pride. Those are the two most popular mixed martial arts organizations in the world. Now if you look at the most successful fighters you know what you will find.....Grapplers.

Wrestling and Brazilian ju-jitsu are by far the most sucessfull styles. Now these are the best fighters in the world.

If you incorporate some striking into your fighting style then thats all the better. If you are swayed by watching hollywood movies than you are on the wrong path.

Heres a list of the top fighters and their respective disciplines

Heavyweight- Fedor Emelianenko(Pride) and Tim Sylvia(UFC)
Fedor- Judo/sambo Tim- Wrestling

Light Heavyweight- Wanderlai Silva(Pride) and Tito Ortiz(UFC)
Silva-Muay Thai Tito- Wrestling/Submission

Welterweights- Matt Hughes(UFC)
Matt-Wrestling

Lightweights-Duane Ludwig(UFC)
Duane- Muay Thai

All of the best fighters incorporate grappling and use strikes to maintain a distance. Striking can be crucial on the ground, but you first need to learn how to get into the position to initiate the striking.

If you watch these competitions you'll see that they end up on the ground (usually quite early) You cannot rely on strikes without any grappling experience.

If you search on Kazaa you can find some UFC or Pride fights and watch how the best fighters fight.

Whoever said that Bruce Lee could beat the top 3 grapplers in the world is obviously delusional. Bruce Lee would get pummeled to a pulp. How would he react to a double leg takedown? He would be oblivious to ground techniques.

So in conclusion a good combination of striking and grappling would be the best. I would put more emphasis on grappling but striking is important also.

mooseknuckle you seem to be under the impression that ufc fighters are good fighters. Even if they are good the majority of them get into ufc because it is grappling geared to begin with. I also study brazilian jiu jistu and you would be a fool to enter a truly free range tourney with just that. True though that if by chance they do get a hold of you you should switch to grappling instead of trying to strike. Grappling has its place if you arent a superb striker only.

Mooseknuckle
bruce lee wasn't just a movie star who could choreograph fights.
He was the single greatest fighter the world has ever seen and that naturally made him a star.
He could have easily beat the 3 best grapplers. Double leg take down? They never would have got a chance to touch him.
He has simulataneously beat 10 trained martial artists at one time in real life.
He specialised in being able to take out a crowd of people extremely quickly.
This wasn't a publicity stunt.
He was the real deal and alot of people don't realise that.

I also study brazilian jiu jistu and you would be a fool to enter a truly free range tourney with just that

this is what i said- So in conclusion a good combination of striking and grappling would be the best.


Grappling has its place if you arent a superb striker only

No this is wrong, you are wrong. If you only rely on striking then you will be taken down by a grappler and you wont know what to do and will be beaten badly.

So what do you have to say about grapplers being dominant in UFC/Pride??? Cause they also have the worlds best strikers and you saw the top of the list- Grapplers.

Its called Mixed Martial Arts......many different disciplines compete.

Go to Sherdog.com and go on to the forums and spurt your crap to them, im sure they will love your ideas.....hahahahahaha

Ok guys.(Dr.Lou and FreeFighter) I posted what you said on Sherdog( the biggest MMA site) This is the first response I received........


That sort of idiocy is hard to come by....oh wait...no it isn't. They are short bus material all the way.

More responses to come. Im sorry to act like an asshole but really dont say stupid shit like that. You guys are wrong, its not a problem just think about what you say next time


I don't know, could be true. Rickson beat 17 ninjas BLINDFOLDED once.

This was the second response, and if you cant tell he is using what we call "sarcasm"

you are the spurter of the crap., jack-ass. These guys arent crap, i will be the best fighter ever you watch. The point is that a grappler cannot grab a good striker. simple as that. I have much experience and grabbing is for if you have been grabbed. I know people that could break a grapplers hand with a punch if they even made a grab attempt. Another thing, reach. Last time i checked, legs are longer than arms, amd much stronger. Bye Bye grappler against a proficient kicker. You have a condescending tone not suitable for a wanna be fighter:mad:

Ok ill end this discussion with you, cause who really cares. We just disagree, no problem. Good luck with your fighting training though.

im right, but we can disagree anyway. Thanks for the kudos though, you can expect a person of my descrip to be fighting publicly sooner rather than later in the next few years. Itll be me

And of what description would this be?

What is your weight/height? What kind of discipline are you? How old etc, Im interested in hearing what you have going for you.

Actually freefighter, I am the best fighter you will ever see. I bring a gun into the ring with me. You'll be on the ground before you realize what happened... and there is no second round.

Generally I'd leave the gun at home, but you are kind of ignorant... and I have a feeling you are also like this in person.

silliness, both of you! :mad:


Moving on to education, the only usefull part of this thread:
ki and chi are the same thing. chi is the English translation of a Chinese word, ki is the English translation of a Japanese word.

Aki Do is the defensive subset of aki-jitsu, and was created by a Buddhist munk who did not believe in aki-jitsu's use of attacks, only in defending.

Tae Kwon Do is a good art of simple self defence and for show, but will not win against a person trained in most other martial arts, for one simple reason: It was watered down when it entered the US to appease Americans who didn't like working too hard.

Hap Ki Do is a sort of middle way between Aki Do and Tae Kwon Do, some grappling as well as kicking.


Kicking above the stomach is a slow attack, because it has to travel faerther to get to where it is going, and because the distance between the attack point of the limb (leg vs arm) and the previous joint is much longer. Longer limb=more power behind strike, but longer time for maximum velosity to be reached.
Kicks to the head *can* be usefull, Just as Dave "the Super Foot" how he won all those tourniments.

American Kempo Karate (fdr: Ed Parker) was designed for street fighting multiple opponants, goal #1 - remove your current attacker from the scene in one move if possible. Krav Maga, style of the Islralie military, took alot of its teachings from Kempo Karate. Note the above posters use of the "I raised my hands and said 'Ok, I'll give you my money' then attacking. Ed Parker's favorite move. He liked to put his hand behind his head as if scratching his neck, 'I don't want to fight, man', and if forced to, would then break the nose of the attacker w/ a hammer fist to the face with the up lifted hand.

That said, my first Kempo teacher competed in UFC in 97, and got both his arms broke. Anhd he was a double black belt Kempo guy.


There is no one true style, it depends on the goals of the fighter, yes, but alos on the body shape/reaction time of the individual. I am thin, I do not make a very good grappler. I do make for a very good pin point striker. Dim Mak mixed with 5-animals kung-fu ended up being a good fit for me.

Bruce Lee was one of the worlds best fighter of the past 100 years, without question. His Jeet Kun Do (Way of the intercepting fist IIRC, it's been a while) is amazingly simple and flexable. A crashing wave can be as forceful as a brick wall, yet it can soften and flow to fill it's container. Be as water, my friend.



I have studied the following for at least 3 belt advancements:
Judo
Kempo Karate
Isshinryu
Tae Kwon Do
Wu Shu (I did this for 3 years. they do not have belt advancement but a single step from "white sash" to "black Sash" I stopped when my instructor told me he would grant me black sash if he were allowed to)
5-star mantis Kung Fu
Hap Ki Do
I have studied the following off and on enoguh to feel comfortable in the basic katas, and the basic manuvers. Not enough to say I "know" the styles:
Tang Su Do
Ti Chi
Dim Mak
Drunken Monkey Kung Fu
Bagua
Krav Maga
Ninjitsu
I have recently gotten into the following styles, and have only a bare essence of what they are about
Akido
Akijitsu
Iai-Art of drawing a sword. I currently have only studied written material on this style.


I list the above so that anyone who wants to argue with me *inteligently* may do so. any name calling will be ignored. I'd love to discuss stylistic differences and uses therin.

Tae Kwon Do is a good art of simple self defence and for show, but will not win against a person trained in most other martial arts, for one simple reason: It was watered down when it entered the US to appease Americans who didn't like working too hard.
it's a matter of how hard you train actually
I've once even almost fainted
I agree about what you said TKD against other martial arts except kickbox- we get all the medals in their championshps over here

what style would you advice to add to my possibility range apart from gripping? I have a weird dislike towards that :confused:

I haven't done much grappling, for the same reason, not a huge fan of it.

Before I try and suggest a style, what are your strengths? what are your weaknesses? What body type do you have? How hard do you want to work?


And yeah, TKD can be pretty impressive if you work hard - I've seen some very fast sidekicks just as they hit me in the stomach from TKD people :) not a bad style, by any means. And perfect for people with no to mid-range high levels of expirience. It a great style to teach balance and form- including strength training for keeping your leg lifted for long periods of time :D
I don't mean to knock it as a style, but from my exp, it's not as usefull in a street fight situation, where, as was mention, you'll very possibly end up grappling.


American Kempo has a number of moves to deal with grappling attacks, judo deals alot with grappling, as does ninjitsu.

If you don't want to learn how to grapple, you need to learn how to get out of a grapple. Untrained people will, when attacking, throw their weight at you, it is in your best interst to move out of the way of that momentum, and strike them as they pass. if then knock you over, you need to free yourself, and immobilise them ASAP.

Bruce Lee's advice was to study one style for years, so you can get all it's moves down, then shop around, learn other techniques and how to replell htem. the more you know, the less often you will be surprised.



btw, I apoligise for being so preachy, but it appeared to be needed. :(

thanx - good input

p.s. I'm not from the USA so I don't know what the TKD is like there

Ok mooseknuckle,
just so you know where im coming from heres my exact descrip, no lies. I'm 6' 2", 175 lbs(pretty lanky but well muscled), i bench press 280+, squat 620+, and curl 135-(thats some good crap for my weight if you ask me). I run cross country and track with a 18min 20 sec 5k, 11.87 100 meter, and 18 1/2 ft long jump avg. I also play basketball and football. As you you can tell im still in high school, so ill tell you im 17. Ive loved martial arts forever, especially the jkd philosophies. I self taught jkd since i was 9 with a little bit of help from my instructor in tkd, which ive only been doing for about 3 years. I've also grappled forever wrestling when i was younger and then jiu jitsu, so i do have grappling experience. I may seem young to be so arogant but hey, ive never lost a match even just messing around in class. I plan to gain recognition in grappling rather soon, ill be the guy that never loses. Ive not wanted to enter tournaments until recently though.

As for persol, i swear im not as arrogant as i sound, i just know im good. I personally would never get in a ring with you and your gun cause im more of a comedian when people try to get me to fight, rather than a testosterone pumped teen. I like making people happy but i love martial arts more.

and river wind, everyone knows everything you said already, so why bother. I am a huge fan of grappling, but not as a fighting art, its more of a sport dont you think?:eek:

Originally posted by freefighter187

and river wind, everyone knows everything you said already, so why bother. I am a huge fan of grappling, but not as a fighting art, its more of a sport dont you think?:eek:

Cause I think I actually know something :P I'm arrogent, too :)


in my exp, most people, espetially when drunk, tend to quickly move from a boxing-type fight into a grappling style (many times by accident. they simply fall, and try to roll with it). The less training they have, the more likely they are to fall onto you or pull you ontop of them. I've ended up in grappling type situations more often than I have standing face to face w/ someone, as we spar back and forth.

I a situation such as a bouncer or body gaurd, where you can't just "take the person apart" for legal (and moral) reasons, grappling is the 1)most likely thing that will happen, 2)the best way to subdue the person w/o getting sued afterwards.

I'm really not a big fan of grappling, though, as I'm lankey and thin. I'm flexable, which helps, but I do alot better when there's a space between me and the other guy.

thanks for replying to my post, I was a bit worried I had overdone it :( How entrenched in JKD are you these days, have you done most of your study through books, or have you found an instructor to learn from? I'd love to find someone to train under in the JKD area a few years down the road.


Avatar- where are you from? do you take TKD in Korea? I have heard stories about how much harder the Korean TKD instructors are; my fourth belt advancement was overseen by a guy from korea, and he kicked us all in the stomach as a final test before the new belt was bestowed. he kicked hard, too!

Avatar- where are you from? do you take TKD in Korea? I have heard stories about how much harder the Korean TKD instructors are; my fourth belt advancement was overseen by a guy from korea, and he kicked us all in the stomach as a final test before the new belt was bestowed. he kicked hard, too!
no, I'm from Latvia, but TKD in Latvia was established only some 14 years ago (fall of the USSR) by Korean instructors. We try keep the old training traditions (although we lose a lot of new students that way - that is, we can all training just learn one hit or one block and the newbies get bored fast) and our trainings can not be called the easy way by any means . ok- so we had to quit all the excercises where you just can't get hurt because of the complains from the new generation :( lol.
To get the black belt you have to face 2 oponents at a time for 3 times and they fight you without any protection gear. Only blocking is allowed from your side.

all in all - we are no Shaolin extreme, but we try to keep up our form to say the least

laughs- btw I can be considered quite a newbie also. I went from the World TKD Federation to International TKD Federation and they didn't accept my previous sertificate. Had to start from the begining, but I'm very sattisfied with the decision. I.T.F. here is much tougher.

It sounds like your TKD is tougher than most of the TKD I've encountered here in the US (though there is one school in Maryland that is the exception, they train pretty hard. I'm sure there are other school around the US that train harder than the average too).

the black belt test sounds like it is the same as it is here, but here, the instructors are pretty flexable about what "successfully defending against two attackers 3 times" actually means. I've seen 3 or 4 people who I'd say got their butts kicked, but the people attacking them pulled their attacks (didn't attack fully, and stoped before any real contact occured). So in the end, the person testing was tired but ok, and they were passed. These same people regularly lose sparring matches w/people w/lower belt rankings :\



I'm training one person right now (don't ask, it was a strange situation, I'm training her cause she needs it, but can't afford to go anywhere formal), and I'm using alot of the TKD white->yellow belt katas in what I'm teaching her. she got so excited over learning round house kicks (while holding onto the wall) yesterday - it reminded me how fun teaching can be :D

well river wind, most of my training in jkd is mostly vid and book read, but i recently have been studying with an instructor who is an 8 year practitioner. It seems you may be right about tkd, it is getting to easy to belt. My self training is very rigorous, working the 70 lb heavy bag arms and legs for 2 hours to end the training session after various speed, precision and technique drills.
on a side note, Im lanky and thin also and have become my jiu jitsu instructors prodigy student.(LOL) its true. I love jkd and welcome the chance to talk or train with anyone on it.
Also i know where your coming from on these pitiful people making belt, theres a black belt in my tkd class that would get torn to shreds in a match against me or a friend of mine(another skilled jkd follower) Just goes to show that they let practically everything slide but forms, aint that shit. A black belt should be able to kick some ass.:D
My instructor currently sets up title fights in jiu jitsu for me vs whoever so someone will finally gain the rank of class champ besides me. But you know what, ya beat once ya beat em a million times.:m:

In reality you don't really need to kick above the waist. I used to do Tae Kwon Do tournament competition and I've only got one kick to the head in competition sparring. I nearly knocked her out. It was rather affective but impracticle for actual use. That was before I went into Shao Lin and learned that TKD was kids stuff. In most forms of martial arts it wasn't until the 20th century that they started really kicking above the waist a lot.

freefighter187/ i dont fight in the arena anymore, i teach now and have some young fighters which will make it later in life, i hope they may get to meet yourself in the arena, in time to come, i still keep up with my training and i am still fast even though i am forty three, but i beleave that age is only a number, i was trained by master ho chi wan, and now i teach by his side, i also train in the art of bushido, i meditate every day, i train every day, i own a farm so i get a lot of weight training every day, but if you have a dream of being the best, dont let anyone spoil it go all out for it and get it, good luck.

even if i dont become the best it'll be fun to try right? I hope to meet any of you or your students in the future. I swear im not to cocky.:m:

I try not to get involved in any fights, and will go to lengths to dissolve any potential for conflict, however, when faced with one... I don't tend to think in any particular style. The moves made are all... suggested by themselves. It's like when you're trying to balance something, what's logical presents itself. However, I am kinda influenced by recent inroads to Shotokan Karate.