I have no experience in meditation, however I'm thinking about it.
What's the best way to meditate, is one better then another? What's with TM meditation, I've read that it's easy to learn and you gain more benefit from it then from other techniques. :confused: ;)

http://how-to-meditate.org/

Here are some video clips you dont feel like reading.

http://www.dogensangha.org/video.htm

The fundamental practice in zen Buddhism is meditation called zazen, which is a Japanese word that literally means "sitting zen" or "sitting concentration."

I highly recommend you learn the basics from a certified meditation instructor. If that's not available (being too lazy to find one is no excuse), then buy a credible book on the topic. I don't recommend trying to learn this from websites ...

-- Long live the Female Messiah!

ok, thanks all ;)

I highly recommend you learn the basics from a certified meditation instructor. If that's not available (being too lazy to find one is no excuse), then buy a credible book on the topic. I don't recommend trying to learn this from websites ...

I've heard similar statements many times but I have never heard a good reason why one shouldn't try it on their own. I've never talked with a instructor but I've had great success with basic meditation. The basics are very simple and it's something anyone can do.
If it makes you feel better and more at peace with the world, go for it.

Mito, first off what are you trying to accomplish by mediating?

I use to mediate a lot in college and right after for relaxation purposes. I learned it from marital arts so it was watered down from religious mediations associated with buddism, zen, and taoism. I picked-up a few things from experience that I want to share with you:

1) location is very very important. You have to find a place that is quite and out of the way with a moderate amount of light to very little light. Room temperature should be moderate of if outside at first, outside temperature should be moderate--at least until you gain experience and than that does not matter as much.

2) Posture is very important. When you mediate you should sit. Meditating while standing requires upright is really difficult in retrospect to sitting down. Laying makes people want to sleep. So go with sitting for now and maybe you can experiment later on. When you sit your head, neck, back and hips need to be in vertical alignment straight up and down. Meaning perpendicular to the ground. Put your hands on your knees. If you put them in front of you you are "closing" your chest which restricts breathing a little. If you put your hands on your knees you are "opening" your chest. Cross your legs in front of you and if you are on a hard surface (like concrete or wood) tie a sock around your ankles for a cushion.

3) Breathing: Breathing is going to be regular and even. In through the nose and out though the mouth. The pont is you want to use as much of your breathing facilities as posible if you are breathing in and out through your nose your are circumventing the nose. Your stomach should be puffing in and out as you breath as opposed to your shoulders rising and falling. If your shoulders rise and fall you are only using the upper portion of your lungs. Take a breath in until you can't inhale anymore and hold it for just a few seconds. Than exhale. slowly and evenly. Each inhale/exhale is one. Count your breaths slowly going from one to ten. Than start over at one. It does not matter what number you count to. It is more important how deep and even your breaths are and that you can stay "under" for at least 10-20 minutes to start with.

4) thinking: Keep thinking to a minimum. At first the only thinking you might want to shoot for is thoughts of counting your breaths. If that is tough, or later on, imagine images that lean towards breathing. One example I used frequently is I would watch an ocean in my head and when it rose I was inhaling when it fell I was exhaling. It was large and slow and even ..even like my breaths. Another common one is seeing a candle flame head. The flicking of the flame rises and falls with your breaths. At first mediate with your eyes closed. If you keep your eyes open it is really easy to get distracted by the world around you.

5) Time: The best times for mediating are early in the morning or in the evening for most people. The reason is that in the morning you do not have the normal worries of the day on your mind and in the evening you have finished your day and can hopefully move past the earlier obstacles of the day. I use to mediate before training sometimes to mellow out in an effort to increase my martial arts preformance.

6) Preparation: There two exercises for prepartation that I usesd

a) preparation breathing. Sitting cross legged (or seiza sometimes) I would inhale forcefully for 10 seconds or more. Hold for three...exhale for 8 seconds. I would only do that about 10 times....as a warmup.

b) Stretching. That is a whole art unto itself but the tips I can give are a) stretch to relax instead of to max flexablity b) stretch whole body not just the legs (neck shoulders and arms too) c) Use same even breathing as talked about ealier d) Use static isometric stretching as opposed to stretching using a lot of motion


I have read about transendtial mediation but have no experience in it so I have no useful comments for you about it. I only used it for relaxation and focus not for enlightment.

If you gain more expience you can work on other techinques ( I did) and there are many others to choose from but if you can watch someone (as opposed to read) you can really learn a lot. Martial arts people are good to learn from because they will be less apt to attach a philsosphy on how to live your life to it. If you learn from a buddiest, taoist or shintoist you are more apt to get a packaged deal that includes their beliefs. While that may strengthen your experience to have the packaged deal you can always add it later after you get the raw technique of mediatation without ideological attachments.

Try doing a Koan, it's simple yet effective.

No intsructors needed.

Most examples on "how to meditate" should be called: "how to concentrate." Meditation is suppose to be the practice of seperating yourself from ALL thoughts, yet many are told to concentrate on a single thought. Staring at a flame in a dark room contradicts the idea behind meditation.

Personally I believe that meditation is near impossible and you would be hard pressed to find a person who can even concentrate well.

robtex : thank you very much for the insight,

koans are meant to make you not think, make your thought process stop completely.

robtex : thank you very much for the insight,

You are welcome. I wish you well in your journey. Do me a favor and tell me how it is going with mediation from time to time.

http://how-to-meditate.org/

I went to that website and I wanted to point out three things about the woman meditating in the picture.

1) She is sitting in a position called a 1/2 lotus. Her right leg which is tucked under is sitting on a rock. Over a short time her ankle wil ache because of that. Two solutions for that is (a) tie a sock on her right ankle to act as a cushion (b) bring a pillow with her and sit on that...but the pillow has to be even so that she won't be lopsided..otherwise she will use muscle tension to stay upright. The sock might be a better option.

2) Her stomach is slightly bent and her neck seems ever so slightly forward. It is optimal to have the hips stomach chest neck and head in vertical alignment perpendicular to the ground--as opposed to the slight hunch in the picture.

3) A lot of schools teach the hand position she is using. I forgot the name of it but putting your hands their in my experience closes the chest and does not allow optimal breating preformance. I would recommend that she move her hands to her knees to open her chest up. You can experiment with this to test the theory. Put your hands in your lap and inhale deeply in your chair while you stare at the computer. Exhale strongly and about 2 seconds into the exhale move your hands out of your lap and and to the sides of your chair. You will see your exhale become stronger immedialtly as you move yoru hands. Having the hands where she has them also naturally hunches the shoulders which slightly inhibits breathing.

I do realize that the opinions on the website are contary to mine. Try it both ways and see which one works for you...I don't believe I have heard anyone who talked about mediation before suggesting to lower your head.

The rest of the site is about buddism and why I know a little I don't know enough to offer a really educated opinion on it.

Stopping thought is nearly impossible. Meditation is like talking in a crowded room you have to learn to push thought and imagination into the background where you don't notice it is there.

Meditation is not complicated.
Yes, it is a form of concentration.
It is meant to interupt your current state of habitual everyday thinking.
Instead of your mind constantly flittering about, it is about bringing your consciousness to the present.
It's about learning to take control of your thinking. Your focus.
Start by focusing on something for 5 minutes.
I personaly beleive that concentrating on ones breath is the best and most personal way to begin meditation.
If thoughts of any kind enter your mind, just let them go and continue to focus on your breathing.
I have meditated in many different ways.
From concentrating on a single word, an image, my breathing, learning to watch where your thoughts come from as TM teaches is quite an experience.
Fasting for a day, physical relaxation, and some others.

They all have the same outcome.
You will eventually find your own way of meditation.
The one that you enjoy most is probly the one for you.

I may have to start meditating again, in fact...........

Oh yeah, and you usually come out with awnsers to questions you have been asking but not putting in the neccessary time or effort into doing so.
Definite bonus.
Man, I can tell I haven't meditated in a while, my mind was all over the place!
Much better now.
I love it.
It's so preciously intimate.
The more time with me the better, OHH!

Meditation is not a process to stop thoughts.

A gun to the head will do better to stop all mental activity.

What is meditation Zero?

What is most obfuscating is that some people just want to keep their knowledge to themselves.They wont reply until cajoled about it.Wait till i start carping KM...

:D

bye!

Skippingstones,

You've never heard a good reason why meditation should not be tried on your own? The Dalai Lama himself warns against damaging your mental health. It is very, very important to have a stable mind before embarking on single-pointed meditation. I am speaking from first-hand experience. Sometimes pulling at a thread can cause the entire tapestry to unravel.

Having said that, Zazen is a good place to start. Begin with just five minutes and slowly build up over a period of weeks. The thing about Zazen is that when thoughts and feelings arise, don't try to push them away or bury them again or analyse them. Just let them float up, hang around, then float away even if those thoughts and feelings are unpleasant. I have heard many people complain that meditation doesn't work for them because they couldn't relax. That is meditation working. When I become agitated during meditation I just carry on sitting there. I might want to get up because it's 'not working' but I just keep on sitting. A little voice in my head says, "Come on, let's do something else." But I just keep sitting, remembering all the while that there is no such thing as a bad meditation.

Apostrophes

Meditation is not a physcial act. it is not a posture. Meditaiton is just to be aware of your thoughts and your "being".

The posture of meditation is good to bring you in a discipline so that you can learn to do it. Like kids going to school. They need to wear a uniform and sit in the classroom. It is to discipline the kid to get to learning. But just by wearing uniform and sitting in the classrrom does not guarantee the kid would learn.

This is exactly for meditation. All the suggestions we hear to sit and close eyes...blah blah... is needed to bring a discipline to ourself. I read from a site that every moment in life should be like meditation..

what does it mean. it does not mean to sit in a place and meditate and not do anything.

It means we watchful of your thoughts while doing all actions. This practise takes time. what we should do is sit brief time in the traditional posture and do the act. You cannot be aware of the thoughts easily. after you finish meditation continue to aware of our thoughts. Simply watch yourself. watch what you talk, how you eat, how you react.....this is then full time meditation. With this practise you also start to see your inner light.

Please understand that meditation alone (just mediation for sake of meditation) is no good/useless regardless if it is Zazen or other types! You must live the life style for it to work. Meditation is good to gather thoughts and mental energy, there for you must do it the correct way! By the way the Zazen taught to me was through a master/instructor or head senior monk. If you moved out of line during Zazen you were hit with a shinai (bamboo sword used in Kendo) although it woulden't hurt, the noise was defening and made you correct your posture! That is real Zazen, sorry guys/gals!

dont apologize Hediki, I don't HAVE to do that.
I think it is a bad thing that people are drilled in meditation as in your culture with a stick. a bit like the army. it is outrageous/when we sit ...and i dont mean straight back 'i am meditatiing--clearing my thoughts for goal of enlightenemnt like the Buddha"...i mean wehn we sit and listen and are with the flow of things. THAt must be spontaneous, not forced with a stick. if that so-called master had done that to me i woulda grabbed it back and hit him hard then walked out..if not thrown out...whothe fuk is someone hitting anyone with a stick. that is disgraceful

the whole reason you and others have put up with that bad behaviour, is because you have bought the myth. the carrot on the stick hope that you will become like 'Buddha'...otherwise there would be no big deal about sitting, or lying, or dancing or whatever. there would be freedom of movement

Please understand that meditation alone (just mediation for sake of meditation) is no good/useless regardless if it is Zazen or other types! You must live the life style for it to work. Meditation is good to gather thoughts and mental energy, there for you must do it the correct way! By the way the Zazen taught to me was through a master/instructor or head senior monk. If you moved out of line during Zazen you were hit with a shinai (bamboo sword used in Kendo) although it woulden't hurt, the noise was defening and made you correct your posture! That is real Zazen, sorry guys/gals!


HM, ummm...when zen teachers walk around with a stick at other zazen sessions they place it vertically in a straight line behind the students (meditator's) back and if the person's back is not touching the stick towards the top or bottom it is an indicator of slouching and they straighten up.

If you or anyone is in a room and worrying (wondering) about being hit with a shinai while meditating you are gonna not be real focused on posture and breathing.

If that one school was your only set of experiences with mediation please get a second opinion and visit another school, even another zen school. ( i am guessing you are buddist which is why you brought up zazen as mediation and not mediation independent of zazen). Even if you decide that the teacher who beat you is the one you will have based after experimenting with schools.

Also, I can't speak for zazen cause I never did that, (not buddist), but as far as meditation goes it is also a physical and technical exercise not just a mental one. You spoke about it as the correct way and than only said mental. If you didn't get technical instruction or phycial instruction you only got part of the formula for meditation.

The physical included postures and varying muscle tension with postures open to inpretation that vary slightly but not greatly.

Techincal includes breathing techinques which again have some variance, duration and setting.

Mediation (again I am not saying zazen--cause I dont' know enough about it but mediation is part of zazen) is a mental exercise but also technical and physical.

I enjoy meditating it is very relaxing to me and helps me center myself

Eincloud describe a typical meditation session for you including length, postures, breathing techinques ect ect. thank you.

yeah, ok, but I usually go for about 15-30 min. I do slow long breaths inhale threw the nose and exhale through the mouth. Usually go in half lotus position but do sometimes go for a full lotus. Back strait and begin.

I think meditation is a waste of time without martial arts to accompany it. If you're not going to use what you gain then what's the point? If you're looking for peace and happiness go walk in the woods or climb a mountain.

Ah. I have always hated any sort of "meditation", "relaxation", blahblahblah. We had a "progressive" teacher for phonetics, so we'd sometimes do "mediational warmups" before speaking practice -- which only upset me and deconcentrized me.
You cannot relax just by being TOLD to relax. This is utterly stupid.

I have also been to an "esoteric" course, and then at home, before studying, tried to do those relaxation practices. Bah. It, in fact, worsened my abilities, and I would often start feeling sick after I had studied for some 30 minutes.
I can make myself ready for studying without that -- there are many ways of disciplining oneself.

If you're not going to use what you gain then what's the point?

Not all things need a 'use' to justify them.

:) Maybe I was a bit harsh. If it wasn't beneficial in some way nobody would've done it. But what's the point of doing something "useless"?

Nothing IS "useless". Every second you're are alive is reason in itself. To think of things as "useless" is a fearful and lazy cop-out.

I think meditation is a waste of time without martial arts to accompany it. If you're not going to use what you gain then what's the point? If you're looking for peace and happiness go walk in the woods or climb a mountain.

Jenyar, can we isolate this for a sec. What benefits does meditation have to martial arts? Specfically. Name a few and I bet whatever list you think up you can take that same benefit and apply it to another physcial activity that it will also benefit.

For instance if one who studies martial arts were to list benefits as

1) focus,
2) relaxation
3) mental clarity
4) improved coordination
5 ) improved stamina

just a hypothical, I would surmise that you could take those same benefits and apply them to basketball, long distance running, or other physcial activites.

And actually, I have studied martial arts all my adult life and some of my adolescent life and used the mediation I learned in there for studying while in college. My rention rate seemed higher to me if I mediated sometimes before exams and such.

Just a counter theory.

SkippingStones,
I tend to agree, but there are things that add nothing to life. By useful I mean "applicable". Sitting under a bo tree giggling at butterflies isn't for everybody. What I'm worried about is that everybody thinks meditation is the way to go - the magic ingedient to life that will finally give it some meaning. I say it won't give it more meaning than it already has - not by its own merit. With me?

just a hypothical, I would surmise that you could take those same benefits and apply them to basketball, long distance running, or other physcial activites.

And actually, I have studied martial arts all my adult life and some of my adolescent life and used the mediation I learned in there for studying while in college. My rention rate seemed higher to me if I mediated sometimes before exams and such.

Just a counter theory.
Yes, of course. And lots of athletes use it to good effect, but along with training. When you get to the level that you need meditation to perform, I think you might have overexerted yourself mentally. It's good for balance, but on its own it's no more beneficial than just training on its own, they have to come together somewhere. Mind+body=punch.

I did Karate for 7 years, without a hint of meditation. Then I started Shaolin and Tai Chi, where we did some Qigong and classic meditation. But it felt superfluous against sitting in low horse after a two hour physical, forcing my mind to focus and bring my breathing under control. Meditation should push against something or you'll still fall over, in my opinion. It doesn't really matter what, though. I just used martial arts because it's a more natural (intelligent?) companion.

My rention rate seemed higher to me if I mediated sometimes before exams and such.

Higher retention is more likey due to greater motivation. And before an exam, your motivation to pass it makes you think faster, remember more.

But it felt superfluous against sitting in low horse after a two hour physical, forcing my mind to focus and bring my breathing under control.
But you realize that in itself is a form of meditation, right?

That was my point :). Applied meditation.

That was my point :). Applied meditation.

:D nevermind then.

I thought it might be, but I wasn't sure.

I think meditation is a waste of time without martial arts to accompany it. If you're not going to use what you gain then what's the point? If you're looking for peace and happiness go walk in the woods or climb a mountain.
If you're peaceful and happy, you've already eliminated most of the reasons for fighting. I think meditation for relaxation is ok, but it's not why Buddhists meditate. Seeing into one's own nature is the point, and it's inherently useless, like everything worthwhile (music, love, art, poetry, walking aimlessly in the woods, etc...).


"...i mean wehn we sit and listen and are with the flow of things. THAt must be spontaneous, not forced with a stick."
The method is to force one to be spontaneous, an inherent contradiction made even more difficult by the formality and seriousness of the setting. Of course, it is impossible, but so are the impossible paradoxes of the Zen koan. I don't know why, but that's sometimes what it takes to fool the mind into seeing what it has been trained from birth not to see. It is silly to object to the stick, just like if you're paying for college and object to your homework being corrected. That being said, you don't need to rely on the formal method. What evolved to work for Asians might not be right for everyone.

Journey of Awakening: A Meditator's Guidebook by Ram Dass is a great book. By far the best I have read on this topic.

watcher what you learn from it....any technical feedback you can post?

robtex, I think the most important thing that I learned from that book, (and really from everything that Ram Dass wrote), is that technique isn't very important in the end; that whether you are sitting in a full lotus position or you are washing the dishes, every moment that you exist is simply another opportunity for you to awaken. After a while, mindfulness becomes a natural part of your journey.

Ram Dass can say it far better than I ever could. Some passages from "Journey of Awakening" are reprinted with permission on the following website. Use the "next" link at the bottom of each page, in all there are three excerpts.

http://www.spiritsite.com/writing/ramdas/part1.shtml

Technique is important and here is why:

1) breathing is essential to the success of mediation. The more effective, and by effective I mean amount of oxygen in and out unimpeded to what is need for optimal breathing, the breathing the more effective the mediation. There is a direct correlation.

2) The more subdued the mind the less tension in the body which also directly correlates to success of mediation

3) Muscle relaxation is directly correlated to mediation

4) all three of the above, breathing, mental state and muscle tension are linked and influence one another.

The postures and techniques presented in mediation were produced to optimize those three variables in order to optimize mediation.

If you look at the postures in mediation books you will see that they all make an effort to mazimize access to breathing passages including for example

straight back
chest open
some have have chairs so legs slightly lower than hips for further open airways and breathing capity

movement is kept to minimum or none at all to keep muscle tension down

thougths are curtailed to at higher levels not controlled at concious level to keep brain activity light .

I am glad you have found someone that you think you can learn from but i have two ideas for you:

1) find a person who is knowledgable in it (and not some other guy who read a book a person who learned from another person at one time),

2) apply information you gain in next year about postures breathing and muslce relaxation and you will find any knowledge you have gain thus far improved by technical applications.

As footnote, what are one or two points from Dass that you learned and how have they helped you thus far? I am trying to learn to....take care

robtex, you have a much different way of looking at things than I do, I sense we are pretty different in that way. I guess I don't think so much about what I "learned", as to what I am experiencing, or I am open to.

The downside for me with "technique" is twofold; it tends to reinforce that meditation is not natural, that you have to do something special or unusual or aggressive to be mindful. Secondly I have encountered quite a few who use technique in a form of spiritual oneupsmanship, the old "my lotus position is better than yours" game.

That's not to say that technique isn't useful to some; but I learned quickly that for me, it gets in the way of mindfulness.

i also feel the same as watcher about this. 'meditation' as it has become popularly understood, to mean stitting in a buddha-posture is to me conformist, and takes away the moving adventurous life away from those who practice practice practice....i have one old zen book where the master tells you not to care about the pain you might feel in the seated position....hmmm, well for me, when you get pain body is tellin you something. like 'get out of the pain. 'go sit somewheres alse' or walk etc

i am suspicious of emphasis on interiorization...from research i have grokked that isms that DO push this seem to also get worldviews which dream of 'escape from planet earth' if not in this lifetimes then n 'other lifetimes'

i love moving, aND wont feel guilty about it, though i also like to just sit when it natrually arises

OK Watcher and Duendy sorry to jab at it I will let it go. But would really like more elaboration on feedback on way you mediate, as in process ....maybe learn from you guys.

In the mid 90's to strengthen my quads for martial arts I use to use mediation to what we called a chinese chair. To do a chinese chair you put your back against the wall and sit down without a chair until your thighs are parallel to the floor. You keep your knees together and your back straight. Than with your feet touching, your knees touching, your thighs parallel to the floor and your back/neck straight you remove your tailbone from the wall and sit there.

To keep your legs from cramping its a good idea not to put tension into your head by thinking how long u have left. So I used mediation in conjunction with that exercise. I would take deep deliberate breaths in through my mouth out through my nose and close my eyes. Sometimes I would see shapes or nature in my head after a while and for a short time, measured in minutes, I would forget I was on the wall at all.

It was kinda funny, the school rented space at a ymca and aerobics people and weight lifters would walk by and it would like I was alseep on the wall in that funky position.

I usually put my hands on my knees so they would not dangle.

OK Watcher and Duendy sorry to jab at it I will let it go. But would really like more elaboration on feedback on way you mediate, as in process ....maybe learn from you guys.



Here's a pretty good site talking about mindfulness meditation, which is where my meditation eventually took me.

From:

http://www.buddhanet.net/lmed1.htm

"In actuality, if meditation is to help you acquire peace of mind as you function in your life, then it must be a dynamic activity, part and parcel of your daily experience. Meditation is here and now, moment-to-moment, amid the ups and downs of life, amid conflicts, disappointments and heartaches - amid success and stress."

Hey guys,

Yeah, meditation is cool.
A whole lot of techniques too.
Does anybody here mastermind?
Many folk meditating on one idea or prayer to create a synergistic vibe.
Like praying for world peace at 11:11 or New Year.
Group meditations have many benefits as well.
I enjoy the moving meditation of Tai chi chuan long form and Pua Kua.
Single thought meditations like TM or breath counting I still use, very easy to learn.
Grounding, Shielding, Healing, does anyone extend their meditations here?

Watcher,
I like the quote. My recurring issue is ego. I get to a point where I am conscious of the moving moment and all becomes effortless. Then an old tape starts playing and 'I' am centerstage. Then I look how effortlessly I do everything with grace and clarity and I'm lost in how great I am. Drinking Binge often follows.

duendy,
I should grok more. Thanks for reminding me of stranger in a strange land, great book. Some 'rules' for some meditations do have a purpose. The body is in part an energy system and certain postures help augument/ understand/ manipulate this energy flow.

robtex,
I do not like the chinese chair. The US military uses it for punishment in basic. Like the front leaning rest position. In some physical meditation I use the Iron Board (becoming stiff with head on one chair and ankles on another) Which form of Tai Chi do you use? I was at a martial arts demonstration, and the best (imho) artist there was performing a long form Tai chi I didn't recognize. He performed his motions 3 times perfectly to my skilled eyes. Each time he went faster and his stances went deeper. It became obvious that Tai chi would be effective in combat. I went to speak with him after. But I didn't speak the language.

I haven't read any meditation books and feel no need to. Mindtripping on my own. No brainwash ideology help needed. Thanx. I think it's too personal and besides I try to keep my mind clean from outer influences: guru's, teachers, etc, so I hear only me and have my own thoughts.

As for physical part, I'm into martial arts long enough to know my body.

robtex,
I do not like the chinese chair. The US military uses it for punishment in basic. Like the front leaning rest position. In some physical meditation I use the Iron Board (becoming stiff with head on one chair and ankles on another) Which form of Tai Chi do you use? I was at a martial arts demonstration, and the best (imho) artist there was performing a long form Tai chi I didn't recognize. He performed his motions 3 times perfectly to my skilled eyes. Each time he went faster and his stances went deeper. It became obvious that Tai chi would be effective in combat. I went to speak with him after. But I didn't speak the language.


I use the chinese chair to stengthen my quads and found I could do it longer when used in conjuntion with meditation techinques. Any physcial exercise can be used for punishment. That does not make the exercise in and of itself bad. I do not study tai chi but it is popular here. It is not a meathod of combat..it is a source of health and wellness. If you like tai chi you should go visit a school...give you a better prespective on it.

My brother saw an aikido teacher do the iron board but he didn't see him get into the position. How exactly do you get into the chairs without facing them? Walk us through the iron chair..i am curious how it works..Without shoulder support I wonder if the neck is strong enough to hold the head? Of if you use shoullder support.

Only when the pupil's mind is empty of his own thoughts can he listen to the Teacher.
Only when the listener is silent can they hear the music properly.

peace

c20

I value my own thoughts the highest, they are music to my ears.

I value my own thoughts the highest, they are music to my ears.

Without predudice :) ...

What is the highest thought (idea) you have had that you could recollect?

Thanks

c20

I have more than 500 pages of thoughts :p

I have more than 500 pages of thoughts :p

Do you mean that your highest thought is that you have them (500 pages of thoughts) or are you saying there are too many too pick one from?

cheers

c20 :m:

yes, there's no way I can pick out one.

how could one weigh one up against the other? What measurement would you use?

^^ Rhetorical ;)

The only answer is of course "I have no idea!"

Which is funny no? I think that's funny :m: :D

Hey robtex,

I use the chinese chair to stengthen my quads and found I could do it longer when used in conjuntion with meditation techinques. Any physcial exercise can be used for punishment. That does not make the exercise in and of itself bad.

I use a deep horse for quads, while watching tv, or when practicing blocks and strikes. I didn't say it was bad, I just don't like it.


I do not study tai chi but it is popular here.

My bad. I see now it was Jeynar.

It is not a meathod of combat..it is a source of health and wellness. If you like tai chi you should go visit a school...give you a better prespective on it.

My perspective is fine, thank you. All martial arts are a source of health and wellness. I've studied several styles of Tai chi from bona fide instructors. It's origins and motions are indeed rooted it combat. Soft style. As Pua Kua is. Both are taught as moving meditations. The names of the forms are telling, Like 'crane guards flank' and 'dragon breathes fire' you get the idea. You should have seen this guy speed it up, you wouldn't question it.

My brother saw an aikido teacher do the iron board but he didn't see him get into the position. How exactly do you get into the chairs without facing them? Walk us through the iron chair..i am curious how it works..Without shoulder support I wonder if the neck is strong enough to hold the head? Of if you use shoullder support.


Basically, face two chairs together and space them as apart as you are skilled. Place your head on one seat, and ankles on the other. Press up so you are in a strait line. You can adjust body with your hands on the floor to get in position or use your feet to adjust the lower chair. Now clear your mind, and visualize your body as an Iron Board. Stiff, inflexible, unquestionalbly solid. Hold the thought. This is the Iron Board. I've also seen people stiffen the body first and be lifted to the chairs, and also lifted up and ran around the room by the waist stiff as a board, cool sight. The degree of your physical training and ability to hold the thought dictates how close the chairs are and how long you hold it. I've done it on 2 sideways 2x4's with only the back of my head and heels touching.I've seen people hold this for a half hour, I'm sure it could be done all night with focus and training. It is often used in demonstrations where the trusted student performs this skill, while an instructor cuts a melon or somesuch off the students abdomen with a sword. I use to use it when I had migraines(real ones), it was the only thing I found that helped. Now I only occasionally use it for one thought physical meditation.



A good demonstration of the power of the mind over the body is the iron chain or iron ring. Place your hand in an OK. focus on the O thumb and index finger. Meld them together in your mind (and force the tips together with your muscles) visualize the O is an iron chainlink. A perfect link of a chain. No breaks. a solid circle. Now ask your brawny friend to take both of his index fingers inside your O and slowly try to pull your finger and thumb apart. As long as you can hold the thought(and the muscles in your hand are prepared) the chain will not be broken. It is an excellent demonstration. The power of someones arms,back and chest against your mind, your finger, and thumb.

Tai Chi is a potent martial art, extremely effective in combat (as evidenced by its frequent association with weapons), but it takes much longer to master it for that use because it relies much less on brute physical exertion. Most people just don't train in it with combat in mind, and in some styles its practical applications are underplayed if not ignored - the problem when something becomes "popular".

Tai Chi was first and foremost developed as a martial art. In classical Yang style one first learns the form comprising of 112 basic postures. These basic postures, originally designed for martial application teaches the student how to optimally align the body structure to manifest or redirect power. - YMAA website: Tai Chi (http://www.ymaasa.co.za/courses/index.htm)

imho in a nowaday streetfight tai chi is useless. at least that tai chi what is taught to the general public. but then as our instructor says and I fully agree with him, the best defence is a handgun. mmmm, berettas are beautiful :m:
and I train not because of self defence, but because I think it's good for my body, inner and outer self

The irony of that is that nobody appreciates the "inner an outer self" behind a Beretta.

I do -> I appreciate myself :m:

A handgun is irrelevent in a streetfight.
If you ever get in a 'streetfight' it will begin in close quarters.
"Hey, do you have the time" Bam on the ground and rolled.

Chuck Norris many years ago took the stand for a defendant in a homocide case as an expert witness. The defendant had shot an unarmed Karate guy. His defense was self defense. Prosecuter puts Chuck on the stand says 'how can you be a threat to me before I shoot you' He was many paces away(iirc 20'), gun in hand, uncocked, down by his side.
A demonstration ensued.
"Go"
Before the prosecuter could raise, cock, and aim his gun Chuck had his foot on the guys shoulder. The prosecuter said he wasn't ready. They did it again. Same results.
The defendant walked.
Justifiable Homocide.

In this city it is usually a dark street and some 5 or 8 people are on you. And sometimes there is a knife involved...
1. a handgun has a scare ability. shoot in the air, the legs, the rest will probably run.
2. a handgun can take down many before you get totally surrounded
There is no use of martial arts if you can not move a hand and your back is open to an atacker no matter what angle you take.

Besides drug users feel little to no pain and there are districts where most are such addicts. Of course, you can always break his legs, but it doesn't work if there are too many of them, besides you can get infected by aids or something.

A distanced takedown is the best.

In this city it is usually a dark street and some 5 or 8 people are on you. And sometimes there is a knife involved...
1. a handgun has a scare ability. shoot in the air, the legs, the rest will probably run.
2. a handgun can take down many before you get totally surrounded
There is no use of martial arts if you can not move a hand and your back is open to an atacker no matter what angle you take.

Besides drug users feel little to no pain and there are districts where most are such addicts. Of course, you can always break his legs, but it doesn't work if there are too many of them, besides you can get infected by aids or something.

A distanced takedown is the best.

I prefer Louis Armstrongs take on it ...

WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD
(George Weiss / Bob Thiele)

I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

The colours of the rainbow, so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shakin' hands, sayin' "How do you do?"
They're really saying "I love you"

I hear babies cryin', I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll ever know
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Yes, I think to myself, what a wonderful world

Oh yeah

peace

c20

I suggest you sing it while walking through some of the areas over here. I already feel the lowclasses cheering up at the smell of a foreign tourist.

Sir carries a gun?

No, just common sense and pepper spray.
I don't go to such places at nights. Some of my friends live in extreme locations, so we always stay till morning behind the doors.

I suggest you sing it while walking through some of the areas over here. I already feel the lowclasses cheering up at the smell of a foreign tourist.

I hear you. I live in a rough area too. Doesn't mean I cant think of a wonderful world though and wish it were that way. I certainly have no intention of adding to the chaos with guns though, this is the reason for guns in the first place i.e. fear. I just stay out of trouble. Better to keep away from the trouble spots. Keep yourself to yourself. I'm sure you do really :)

c20 :m:

I don't think you can distinguish "dangerous areas." I heard of people being attacked in the morning on the way to work; I use that walk every day to go to the beach in the summer, and it's right next to a hospital. And our robbers are always with weapons and kill even if people give them money. BTW, I think pepper spray is illegal to carry around here.
Not that my world isn't pretty :D And meditation helps keep it beautiful.

where is this thread going? doesn't anybody have input on mediation techniques and theories?

:rolleyes: Guilty :rolleyes:

I've answered your specific question earlier in thread regarding Iron board. I've asked many of my own. No answers. Aproppos for the subject matter, surely.

Internal peace in a street fight.
Everything slows down.
Senses expand.
Peripheral vision gains clarity.
No thought to action.
Leave. It's over.