I thought the movie Signs was ok, don't get me wrong. But as an athiest I found the over all moral of the story to be somewhat offensive. The over-all moral I got out of it is that if you don't have God in your life you won't fight for your family's survival, and you will live completely apathetically. He almost refused to fight for survival until he decided to pray. I'm not against religion, but come on? I don't have God in my life and I'd fight to the death for my family. My will to survive is strong. I don't need God, heaven, or threat of hell to entice me to live a moral life and to be strong.

Did anyone else feel this way about the movie or did I just read waaaay to much into it?

I seemed to have thought about that too. It didn't bother me to the extent to hate the movie though. I found it to be religious in a way. Especially the end where he goes back to being the reverend. Aliens/God in the same movie don't mix.

Aliens/God in the same movie don't mix
I totally agree!

I didn't hate the movie. Thought it was so-so. But I certainly didn't like that little condescending overtone towards athiesm.

i interpreted the story differently than you did. it seemed to me that his faith returned when he started realizing how everything was connected. the "signs" (like the purpose for the little girl's habit of half full glasses around the house, and the little boy's asthma attack that ended up saving him from the alien) were evidence of a larger force at play. the main character realized that even though some of these things were events and circumstances that drove him away from god, there were reasons behind them all. once he connected the dots his faith was returned.

i was an athiest until i experienced these sorts of things (connections, patterns) on a much more modest scale (absent the aliens of course) in my own life. kind of like a bizarre alignment of ideas, events, and circumstances, and a reoccurrence of synchronicity. once you experience this sort of thing you know there is something bigger.

why couldn't god and aliens co-exist? couldn't it be possible that we (creatures on earth) are not the only beings created by god?

the main character realized that even though some of these things were events and circumstances that drove him away from god, there were reasons behind them all. once he connected the dots his faith was returned.
I saw all those points as well, and found them to be a good part of the movie. I just didn't like how, while he had lost his faith, he was so apathetic about his family's well-being. It makes it seem as though athiests are totally cold and uncaring.

i was an athiest until i experienced these sorts of things (connections, patterns) on a much more modest scale (absent the aliens of course) in my own life. kind of like a bizarre alignment of ideas, events, and circumstances, and a reoccurrence of synchronicity. once you experience this sort of thing you know there is something bigger.
Everything is a result of everything before it. You can find patterns everywhere. I don't see this as evidence of a higher power. How else would it go? All you have to do is trace the steps backwards and you'll find patterns everywhere. This is causality...

i see where you are coming from but what i am talking about is more than "causality." if i could explain it with words then i'd be the only person on earth who could.

i didn't see what you refer to as a cold uncaring athiest portrayal. i saw a man who was depressed and grieving over his dead wife and his lost faith, like the rug had been pulled out from under him. i'll have to see it again with your perspective in mind.

notme

you are correct

perspectives, experiences, and opinions are neither correct nor incorrect.

but the message of this movie is quite idiotic.
Why should anybody hate it? Despise is much better word.;)

why did the aliens chose a planet that is covered for 70% in water?

notme and kidsun.. i see both sides of the story... i agree to parts of what both of ya said... he was down becuz his life changed abruptly..... at the same time, the religious influence was disturbing... i think they could've done without that... the worst part of the movie was the actual depiction of an 'alien'... the portrayal wasn't any better than what we've gotten from sci fi or any comic book and what not.. if they hadn't shown the alien, it would've been a lot better... also minus the religious message..

i dont think the director is progressively making worse movies.. sixth sense was awesome and unbreakable was also very intriguing... really different movies...

It was an experience. It was enterainment. It was a story. It really would have no base on reality. But how would you all act in the same situation would you all have great courage? Seriously remember he said there are two types of people...Ones who believe things happend for a reason....and people who beleive they are on there own. Whether there be a god or the wife and little kid where phycics. Even the movie gives not real evidence that there is a god. The only thing it tells you is that he need to believe to survive. He never stopped believing in god

Originally posted by sycoindian
.... at the same time, the religious influence was disturbing... i think they could've done without that... t

i


why? in real life millions could have lost their faith in god for the same reason.
whats wrong in depicting an individual case of that in a movie

He almost refused to fight for survival until he decided to pray. I'm not against religion, but come on?

some people are stupid. in real life there are also stupid people. again, whats wrong in depicting a stupid person on film?

why did the aliens chose a planet that is covered for 70% in water?
Lol, I found myself wondering the same thing....

i dont think the director is progressively making worse movies..
I do. 6th sense was awesome. You can watch it again and again. Unbreakable was pretty cool, but you can only watch it once... Signs was predictable and silly, not even worth the one watch, really.

Seriously remember he said there are two types of people...Ones who believe things happend for a reason....and people who beleive they are on there own.
I agree with that. But just cause I believe I'm on my own doesn't mean I wouldn't fight for the ones I love. And that's what they movie portrayed. If you're in "group 2" and believe you're alone then you're driven by fear and you lose. I think group 1 lives in fear cause they can't stand the idea of being alone. I really don't see it as something to be scared of.

I really like the movie. I could watch it over and over again. Same with Unbreakable. Its really just subject to our own personal opinion. Greatness in the eye of the beholder.

Empty,
Very true. I thought the movie had some good parts. I particularly like how you can see a cross used to be on the wall, but was removed. I found that powerful. But none-the-less, the few good points of the movie, I found, weren't enough to save it. I wouldn't mind if it was just about how he got his faith back, I aint against religious movies.... What bothered me was how he wouldn't save his family when he was without God. I'm sorry, but that makes him a weak person, no matter which group he's in. But that movie is gunna make alot of people think it's a universal fact about athiests. I've already been told I remind people of that guy. I am NOT like that guy.

They stated about the two kinds of people. Did the reverent ever stop believing in god? No not really he just started to hate him for taking his wife and putting him in that circumstance. Then as things happend he jumped to the conclusion that God helped him. The truely human reactions in the movie are what made me love it.

Good point. None the less I couldn't help feel offended, that was my truly human reaction.

Its only in your own head. I really think you might be over reacting. Its not like they said at the end...ha you see fools god exists. That is left wide open. I could see how you would get that if you where filled with judgments and didn't let yourslef experience it.

As is your own opinion.

It wasn't that they went "ha fools, god exists" I wouldn't have minded that. I don't care if God exists or not in a movie. What bothered me was that it said "Ha fools, this is why I believe in God, cause if you don't you're a cold heartless wimp!"

Don't paint a clear door red. He was weak with out god.

I have my opinions and am entitled to them. As are you.

Ha fools, this is why I believe in God, cause if you don't you're a cold heartless wimp!"
This is what I am debating..When the hell did this happen. many others died why where they not saved by god? Where the women in that familly phycic? Was it a big coinsidence. In the end he needed to believe in god. His belief is regardless of truth. All I am saying is Notme you a bright guy don't get insulted with the movie I don't think it was directed to insult atheists at all. His soon may have very will died at the end. It just so happend that he had an ahsma (That how to spell it ?) attack. Whether god was involed or not is irrelievant. The point is he choose to belief some one was watching over him. He needed to believe on god to be strong.

I really don't think you're getting me. I don't care he believes in God, people have the right to believe in God. What bugged me is millions of people are going to walk out of that theater saying "Phew, he believed in God and restored his humanity", as though without god you are a little less human. You may not have noticed it as much cause it didn't concern you as it isn't something you have to deal with all the time. But every day I have to deal with people thinking I'm cold and calculating, simply because I have faith in reason. And this movie only perpetuates that lie. As I said I've already been told I'm like this guy, presumably because I'm athiest. I'm really nothing like the guy in that movie, but I'm stamped with that label all the time. So pardon if I get a little ticked off that a movie doing so well is preaching that message.

It is not preaching that to them. They are just like the reverent looking for "signs". It only shows that they are part of the first group just like the reverent.
Stamping you with a lable is a product of thier own ignorance.

spookz... i see ur points... i just didnt see the sense of trynna fit some realism in an unrealistic situation... many ppl would lose their faith in those circumstances, but the re emergence of it due to some coincidences is folly.... if its possible to believe that things happened for a reason, its also possible that they didn't.. they could be pure coincidences... i see patterns in my life but that doesnt make me believe in something so strongly... u can find reason in random things if you're really fishing...

notme...

theists vs atheists
majority vs minority...

the ratio is simple.. majority always exercises some sorta control and judgement over the minority... its not right... if ppl dismiss you as cold and calculating just cuz u dont believe in god, its their bloody problem... religious affiliation shouldn't have to do anything with a person's character... i do see your dilemma with the movie... movies create stereotypes perpetuated by the public cuz hollywood is reality...:bugeye:

suckers... :D

** I hated this movie. I don't think I can bring myself to watch it again. The alien just stood their and got knocked up side the head. It was depresssion and I deserve cash for my pain and suffering.

hey again notme,
i'm understanding your opinion on this subject more as i keep reading your words. i just have a couple quick things that come to mind:

first, if you have "faith in reason" then your belief system may actually be closer to an "agnostic" position where your spiritual opinions are concerned. why? because being an "atheist" is someone who "denies the existance of god." an atheist would be committed to that position, that is, committed to the NON-existance of god.

an agnostic, on the other hand, is a "person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as god) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of god or a god" (from m-w.com)

the reason i think it sounds like you would be an "agnostic" is that, if you have "faith in reason" then, unless you have proof that god does NOT exist, (which would be something!) then stating and committing to the position that there is NO god would be contrary to reason. (absence of proof is not the same thing as proof of absence.) reason does not dictate the absence of god. it fails to prove or disprove. thus,"a faith in reason" would be closer to an agnostic perspective.

you, of course, could still be a very kind, moral, fair person without believing in god, whether you are agnostic or atheist (it seems you are a kind person, in fact, which seems the thrust of your irritation with this film.... that people lacking faith in god are portrayed as bad people.)

on that same note, i learned in graduate school (when i, too, was an agnostic) that there is in fact a strong correlation between spiritual faith (and religious practices actually) and levels of depression and anxiety. that is, people who believe in something greater, and people who practice that faith in some manner (through church, or ritual, or tradition, or what have you) have lower levels of depression and anxiety than so those who do not.

it makes sense when you think about it - what we believe is real for us. our beliefs exert a very powerful influence on us. (that has been shown scientifically over and over again.) but that, in no way, means that people who believe in something greater are better, kinder, or more moral. in fact the 9/11 terrorists show us a perfect counter-example of that notion.

With out a "god" you learn to stand on your own and not depend on a theoritical metaphysical entity. Whether their be a God are not us agnostics don't know.

But to go along with the depression thing. Allot of people of follow a religiuos faith will live in igrnorance of thier ownself. It takes a certain mentality to stray from the "pop" culture of religion. To us agnostics we are ultimatly responsible for out own actions. I think that was the point of signs. With out his faith he was weak, when he lost it he was a broken man. Then he found it through "the hand of god". The weakness that he showed in the movie won't leave him it will be stuffed deep into his mind. Though if there is a god and the bible is right then everything would change. (Duh)

I loved this movie, finding god while aliens attacked the planet. :D

I should have pointed out that I am agnostic. Kidsun you hit the nail on the head as to why it bothered me.

that is, people who believe in something greater, and people who practice that faith in some manner (through church, or ritual, or tradition, or what have you) have lower levels of depression and anxiety than so those who do not.
Checks out. I used to be very depressed and had SEVERE anxiety attacks. But I'm past that now and love life. But you wouldn't happen to know why those who do not believe in something higher have more likeliness to be depressed do you? Or is it just the obvious "because they're 'alone'"?

notme,
you wouldn't happen to know why those who do not believe in something higher have more likeliness to be depressed do you? Or is it just the obvious "because they're 'alone'"?

there are many reasons why people develop depression. some emotional conditions have a biochemical origin, but in my experience as a clinician i find that it's the chicken and the egg syndrome - beliefs, chemistry, life circumstances, support systems, and so on, all contribute to the problem.

to address the issue of religiousity and a belief in a higher power more specifically, ....

our beliefs have a tremendous impact on our emotional well being. believing that god will "comfort" you for example, may lead you to feel comforted by god. believing that painful things are part of a "divine plan" or that there is a "heavenly life after death" may help a person cope with difficult life circumstances, or may provide comfort when one loses a loved one. other spiritual people will say that they don't necessarily believe in "fate" but do believe that there is something to be learned from every experience, and they use prayer to find that insight.

studies involving religiousity and a belief in god show that people find 1) peace and insight through prayer and 2) social support from church. a belief in a higher power is not absolutely necessary for someone to use both of these coping mechanisms, although it is often the case, hence the finding in the research.

my own spiritual insight and practices over the last few years have dramatically improved my own emotional health. personally, i don't believe in something like "fate" but i do believe there is an optimal path for me that, though meditation and freewriting (my own form of prayer), i can find and follow.

i regularly talk to what i call "god" which i believe is a higher power that i can tap into within myself .... it goes something like..."god, what do you want me to learn from this?" when i'm courageous enough to ask - and listen - i hear an answer. not in another voice, mind you. in my own voice, but my "higher" voice. my "conscience," for lack of a better term. this happens without fail - 100% of the time i get an answer that helps me. sometimes it's not what i want to hear... but that's another story.

regarding "feeling alone":
since i allow myself time every day to talk to what i consider god, i never feel alone. feeling alone and isolated, as you guessed, is a surefire route to depression.

finding social support, like church,...
there are lots of places to find social connection and support other than church, but whereever you find it, it does seem to be a large part of maintaining emotional well-being.

i have never belonged to a church, (or a religion) but have found that sense of community support and connection through free radio (www.likehumansdo.com). the radio station i broadcast my show from has become like my "church." i thoroughly recommend community media for those of you who, like me, are searching for community and who have never felt comfortable in church.

so,... that's probably way more than you asked for, but there you have it. hope it's useful.
-k

Actually, I was thinking about it earlier, and it turns out I was thinking something along the lines of your post. I used to concider myself 2 people. Me, and the other me that I presented myself to... Kind of like the actor and the audience... Lately I've only been the actor. I forgot to be the audience. To step back and watch, and to know I'm being watched. Not by God (IMO) but myself... Does that make any sense?

notme,
what you're describing is like what some people label the "scientific observer" within....like this calm, cool, objective audience for your other (emotionally integrated, emotionally biased) "self." this observer's objectivity makes "him" wiser.

some poeple label that as "god" within.

are you starting to see that what one person labels as one thing is really the same experience, but labeled something different by another person? like on another thread where they are talking about taoism and "stream of consciousess" writing - that is the same experience as what another person will label as "inspired by god." there are many words for the very same things....

seems so simple, doesn't it?

Oh, I've always known that different beliefs are stating different origins for the SAME things... It's exactly that, the origins, that we're interested in. But I do understand your point completely.