View Full Version : Murder for Sport: why is it legal?
10-07-02, 02:34 AM
Murder for food is questionable, but murder for sport? I have dozens of friends who say, "I'm going on a killing rampage this weekend. Wanna come with? It'll be fun!". I ask them, will they use their victims for food? They say, "No, I only murder innocents that have never harmed me because I enjoy doing it. I think it's fun to kill defenseless innocents!"
Then they show me sometimes on their wall, a trophy victim. You see it hanging on a plaque, eyes glazed over. Or they have its head hanging on a plaque, stuffed or hollow.
Why are they allowed to do this? The first time a friend went on a killing spree I called the police department, but they told me it was perfectly legal and I became enraged and cried for about an hour.
10-07-02, 03:07 AM
hunting is wrong
10-07-02, 03:12 AM
I think that you should mention what type of animal. Because people might think that you are talking about humans, and then go around killing people...
But seriously...In England farmers and people go Fox hunting. They say that its to keep the numbers down, so that they don't kill so many sheep... however they were not allowed to hunt for around 2 years due to Foot and mouth, and a study has shown that there was not a sizeable increase in the number of foxes.
I think that they should be allowed to kill the foxes to protect their sheep, but only in a humane way. Don't chase them for half an hour, just put them out of their misery with a gun. Otherwise I think that we should be allowed to do the same to them.
10-07-02, 03:38 AM
No no, just find plastic target dummies with moving wheels attached to them and osma bin laden's face painted on them :) Simulated shootout. The only things that are harmed are large square pieces of cardboard, not animals.
Try your local rifle range that does target practice, ask there. If shooting in certain public areas (like an open field) is legal (discharging a firearm in a public place), just got out there and have fun. You could do a small reenactment Desert Storm if you wanted. There are companies that sell all kinds of things you can use for this short of thing.
BTW, I am a little drunk right now, so if this doesn't make sense, feel free to slap me.
Hunting is fun. I've never gone out to kill animals because I simply see no fun in it that I can't find in doing advanced target practice. Of course, I also haven't really been shooting much in the last few years.
Anyway, I think hunting should be legal. But only if animals are allowed to kill people. I mean give them a fair chance. As it stands if an animal kills a human it must die. No more of that bullsmack.
If people want to hunt just give them a knife, camping supplies and let them stay in a forest and actually kill something. Let them build a bow and arrow if they actually want to kill something. Let them do it the old-fashioned way. Then we'll see how much of a man's activity this is.
I enjoy fly fishing but have never hunted anything having fur. I grew tired of eating trout, so I'm catch-and-release now.
The hunt is the hunter's thrill.
10-07-02, 11:21 AM
I dont hunt, and when I do fish Im drunk so I cant kill fish. Killing another animal/human is wrong. Anybody here up for Wendys?
Okay maybe some humans deserve to die, heres a few on my "hit list":
Michael Jackson- A conspiracy against him?! Nope its just me Im trying to kill you micahel!
George Lucas- You made starwars suck you bastard!
Osama- By boy bin laden, who doesnt want to kill him?
Hitler- Now your proabably saying hes dead, well no his relatives are still around and we should kill all of them!
Thats my hit list. Now as your reading this you should realize that I am joking and that human killing is wrong, but Im all for the death chamber.:D
When I was a child and read Wilson Rawls' Where the Red Fern Grows, I have to admit that I developed an appreciation for the idea of having your dogs chase down an animal and then engage in a human-vs.-prey test of ingenuity and nerve. (Sometimes, this process, working without guns, requires the cutting down of the tree the animal is in.)
Flash forward to reality.
When I was in college, I happened to attend a party at a house in the rich neighborhood of my girlfriend's hometown. Located on the golf course, the home was owned by a "good man" (according to those who knew him) who "has his head on straight" (apparently unlike most in the world). Nonetheless, the home was decorated with hunting trophys. Ducks, bears, beavers, you name it. And he always had two. Regardless of the gender of his prey, he would have two carcasses stuffed and mounted in coitus.
Something about his head being straight?
At any rate, he had only one cougar, stuffed and mounted, and proudly swirled Chivas while he told the story of its taking.
"Bob" was at work in Northern California. He owns his own business with offices in three states: Oregon, California, and Alaska. One day, he gets a call at the Cali office from some friends. He ought to come up; they got a big cat for him.
So Bob calls his travel agent, books the next ticket to Alaska, makes arrangements to ship his gear, and flies off. The next day his gear arrives, and he drives a good clip out to where his friends are hunting. The next day he hikes out to the campsite, and his friends take him the mile to the hunting ground. There, a pack of hunting dogs have kept a cougar in a tree since before Bob was called.
Bob takes out his rifle, shoots the cougar, and asks his friends to haul it out, have it "taken care of", and have it shipped to him.
Then he leaves, hikes back to the car, drives back to town, and flies back to Cali, shipping his gear straight to Oregon, and when he arrives home from California a week and a half later after finishing up his business, the cougar is in the hands of a local taxidermist, preparing it for mounting.
Contrast this with my girlfriend's uncle, who resigned from his job with a state fish & game board after he discovered that his latest legal hunting kill took place some fifty feet too close to a road. Even his constituents were puzzled.
Of course, at the time I lived in Oregon, we were arguing over ways to trap large cats and bears. I've noticed that hunters generally prefer to hunt animals when they're standing still. On the one hand, it's a hunter's right to hunt bear and large cats (or so they say), but I've never known someone who took down a bear that did so when the bear wasn't already mutilated by a trap. Come on, let's see some courage among those hunters.
Exactly. There's a tv show called Titus which isn't exactly funny but has it's moments. In one flashback young Titus is in a sports store with his father and says "Dad, can we go hunting one day too?" as he notices a man trying out a rifle. The father looks at the boy and says "No son, the men in our family actually have a penis."
Many hunters I've met say it's a macho or strong-man's thing to do. Buuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. You want a man's job, go join the Army then the Rangers or in Canada, the JSTF2. Or, be a fucking man and actually hunt an animal. Don't let the equipment do every bit of work.
I don't see myself ever hunting anyone, especially a vegetarian who poses no real threat to me. (Yes, I say anyone, because they're all just as sentient as we are). But I have no problem with others doing it. That really just follows from a libertarian worldview.
10-13-02, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Tyler
Anyway, I think hunting should be legal. But only if animals are allowed to kill people.
10-14-02, 07:42 PM
Well, a bear can kill you quite handily, and if you think an elk or moose can’t stomp a mud hole in your ass, you’re fooling yourself.
Hunt for a trophy? Never. But what about those of us who eat what we kill? I’ve hunted meat animals all over the U.S.; bear, whitetail deer, mule deer, elk, dove, duck, turkey, squirrel, quail, pheasant, chukar and more…
Anyone who believes the contest is unfair, I invite to come hunting with me and see how balanced the sport truly is, and how well you’d fair. Test your fitness and stamina climbing the steep ridges and canyons in South Dakota; slogging through marshland and bogs in Mississippi; forcing your way through heavy brush and timber in upstate New York; sit in a freezing, wet duck blind; sit motionless at the base of an oak tree for hours on end. You go through all this and spot an animal, so now you just shoot it and go home, right? Hardly. Might be too far away; might be too much cover in between; might be approaching from your off-hand side. And these are just some of the problems encountered after you spot game.
Take the whitetail deer as an example.
They have monocular vision to each side and binocular vision to the front, giving it a wide field of vision. The structure of the deer's orbit and the size of its retina allow a deer to see back along its flank and detect objects behind it. They depend on motion and depth perception to locate and identify objects and have the ability to focus on nearby and distant objects at the same time. Be still and a whitetail will not see me, but move and he will nail me every time.
When it comes to hearing, those big ears are not just for looks. Like twin radar screens, they are constantly rotating to pick up sounds from any direction. And because a whitetail can move each ear individually, the animal has the capability to listen to more than one sound at once. A deer pinpoints the source of a sound due to the slight difference in time it takes for the sound to reach each individual ear. Deer are not quite as good at pinpointing the source of a sound (IMHO) as some predators or wild turkeys, but they ain't too shabby either! Their skill here is exceptional enough to pinpoint us clumsy and loud (to a deer) hunters.
But it is that nose which usually beats the hunters. Consider that one-third of the whitetail's brain is devoted to recognizing various odors and then interpreting each of them. Beneath the skin of that black, shiny noise are nasal chambers which allow the whitetail to take the tiniest particle of scent and concentrate it so that the brain can better determine what the smell means. And the whitetail can perform this function with six different odors all at the same time? Can it be ignored? Is it food? Is it a predator? Is it man?
The answer comes quickly and the deer reacts accordingly - once they are spooked by any of these senses, they are gone. They seem to have only two gaits: trotting and galloping. A deer can run at 35 mph, jumping obstacles as high as 6 feet, leaping as far as 20 feet and zig-zagging in a manner that would shame a professional football player.
Let me know when you’re ready to try your hand.
Youth is the first victim of war - the first fruit of peace.
It takes 20 years or more of peace to make a man;
it takes only 20 seconds of war to destroy him.-- King Boudewijn I, King of Belgium (1934-1993)
10-27-02, 09:37 PM
Animals aren't human. Killing animals for fun isn't murder. It is not ethically wrong. It might be morally wrong, but then morals are very subjective.
My grandfather was a hunter all his life. But he always hunted for food and had a hell lot of hunting trophyes at his home. I've ate all kinds of forest meat during my childhood and can say that it is very healthy and tasty. Especially I loved boar.
My grandfather as my father and I loved guns and I think he was also missing the practice which he had with them during WW2. I think that's why he took up hunting.
But those were souviet times and it was really hard to get good or any meat at the market. Now you can have whatever you want.
I still miss boar and deer some times, but not so much that I feel it a must for hunting. It's just that I think you should kill only if you have troubles getting meat or have other reasons (like- mistakenly sent to a camp of vegans in some remote place). What I want to say is that I approve hunting if there is a reason, but not if it's just for fun and you later waste the body. We are a part of the food chain, but only when we need food.
Anyways- I have dirrected my love for the guns to target shooting. And I wouldn't try to kill an animal for fun. But if the circumstances were that I needed food, I'd have no problem to try out my luck.
11-06-02, 01:18 AM
Here in Texas, white-tail deer are a very large part of our eco-system. In areas of the Hill Country where hunting is banned, white-tail deer boom in population to the point that they sleep in people's backyards. Eventually, hunting had to be un-banned in the areas surounding small towns, because white-tail deer were starting to strip the vegitation of the area.
It's not unheard of here in Texas for hunters to be hired by ranchers, property owners, and even city leaders to go purely on culling shoots, because the local deer populations become so large they strip the land bare of every grass, shrub, and bush in site. What people don't realize, is that with animals like the BobCat, Wolves, and other carnivores in smaller numbers, humans have largely assumed the role of top predator.
You will find that even in nature, predators like Lions and Tigers do not kill just to eat. Neither do certain Orcas. All hunt purely for game or sport, or kill lesser predators out of a show of dominance. Nature knows all to well the rules mankind is playing by. That's why deer can breed as fast and as numerously as they do. Deer will never go extinct for this reason, no matter how many trophies we mount on our walls.
11-06-02, 01:34 AM
"If people want to hunt just give them a knife, camping supplies and let them stay in a forest and actually kill something. Let them build a bow and arrow if they actually want to kill something. Let them do it the old-fashioned way. Then we'll see how much of a man's activity this is."
Have you seen a full-sized boar rear up on his hind legs? He can stand 8 feet tall. If he feels threatened by you, even if you are NOT a hunter, he's going to charge you, and the only thing a human has at this point is his intellect. You can't outrun him. You might not find a tree tall enough. You must obviously find a better weapon than his. What does he have? Several hundred pounds of bone and flesh which makes a very effective battering ram. He can throw you a good 40 feet away if he smacks you right. After you are down, he will trample you with his weight and it will be just as bad as getting trampled by any bull. His skin and muscle is tough enough he can shrug off several rounds of pistol and even rifle gunfire and keep comming. You can empty a Colt .45 into him and he won't flench. This scenario is one reason semi and fully automatic assault rifles are employed by ranchers and hunters. A charging boar can be as dangerous as any armored military vehicle. I've known of one boar who took over 20 bullets from weapons of .45 calibur and LARGER and did not go down for 45 minutes as he made repeated charges as a pickup truck full of hunters who had not put a shot in his direction. By the time the boar was taken out by the hunting part, their truck had been totaled by serious damage to the suspention and driveshaft.
11-06-02, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Xevious
A charging boar can be as dangerous as any armored military vehicle.Well, let's not go crazy with the comparisons. :)
I've known of one boar who took over 20 bullets from weapons of .45 calibur and LARGER and did not go down for 45 minutes as he made repeated charges as a pickup truck full of huntersApparently some pretty piss-poor shooters.
11-06-02, 11:58 AM
One of those hunters was a Viet-nam vet and one an expert marksman. When they pulled the boar open, there were well over 20 slugs inside it. That boar took a LOT of lead, and it was the said vietnam vet's M-16 which finally settled the issue. It took as much time as it did not because they couldn't hit it, but the boar would attack from differnt directions each time, and after a ram would hide in the bushes for several minutes before attacking again.
"Well, let's not go crazy with the comparisons."
If your on foot, is that not a fair comparison? Against a fully rigged hunting truck, with reinforced frame and 4 wheel drive is it not a good comparison? He totaled a truck which was about as close to a hummer as you can get in terms of ruggedness.