As Lewis Black correctly pointed out in his stand up routine, sometimes we take everything for granted, when applying a little logic would explain the mistakes.

There is no such a thing as soy milk, because there are no tits on the soy bean. Quite simple. Correctly it is soy juice, but that word makes people gag.

Even Wikipedia first call it milk, but when it starts to explain the origins, it switches to juice.
Speaking of soy tits, the white liquid from the coconut isn't milk either...For a liquid to be milk, it has to come from a mammal's mammary glands.

But that is just my silly definition...

P.S.: " In many countries, this product may not be sold under the name milk since it is not a dairy product, hence the name soy drink." -- Wikipedia

It does resemble milk, it is used for the same purposes, and it is high in protein. There is an old precedent for this. In the Middle Ages, people didn't have refrigeration, so only those close to a cow could get it. They used crushed almonds.

http://www.godecookery.com/goderec/grec31.htm

http://www.soya.be/soy-milk-maker.php

As Lewis Black correctly pointed out in his stand up routine, sometimes we take everything for granted, when applying a little logic would explain the mistakes.One of the things Lewis Black would surely point out that we should not "take for granted" is that jokes are literally true. ;)
2: a liquid resembling milk in appearance: as a: the latex of a plant b: the juice of a coconut composed of liquid endosperm c: the contents of an unripe kernel of grain

3. any liquid resembling [the milk from a cow or other mammal], as the liquid within a coconut, the juice or sap of certain plants, or various pharmaceutical preparations
3. A liquid, such as coconut milk, milkweed sap, plant latex, or various medical emulsions, that is similar to milk in appearance
4. any of several nutritive milklike liquids

Your last 2 definitions used the SAME word (milk) in the definition than the word they are trying to define! :)

That is a big logical no-no....

P.S.: It isn't even clear what word did you look up...

It does resemble milk, it is used for the same purposes, and it is high in protein.

So does human sperm....

Your last 2 definitions used the SAME word (milk) in the definition than the word they are trying to define! That is a big logical no-no....Sorry, for concision I did not paste the entire definition. A numeral other than 1. in front of each line indicates that it was not the primary definition. "Fluid secreted by mammary glands" or words to that effect are the primary definition of "milk" in all sources. In the compilation of a dictionary (again for concision) it is indeed fair for secondary definitions to refer back to the primary, rather than repeating it and adding length, e.g. "A fluid closely resembling the fluid secreted by mammary glands..."
It isn't even clear what word did you look up..."Milk."

Shrug

It depends on how literally you want to take definitions. Any department store will sell you "crystal glass," even though those two terms are technically contradictory.

Wikipedia, my common sense dictionary gives:

Milk is an opaque white liquid produced by the mammary glands of female mammals (including monotremes).

So let's stick to soy juice...

Not to belabor a point, but in nuclear medicine we "milk" a Molybdenum "cow". That is, we extract radioactive Technetium-99m from radioactive Molybdenum-99 by washing a solution through the Moly which dissolves the Tech into it, and which is drained out. This is done on a daily basis in several score locations all over the world.

When kids asking for pocketmoney, they are milking their parents...

Wikipedia, my common sense dictionary gives:

Milk is an opaque white liquid produced by the mammary glands of female mammals (including monotremes).

So let's stick to soy juice...

No. Soy milk is used as a milk substitute by lactose intolerant people and non-dairy vegetarians. It is, often, used like cow or goat milk.

We don't usually put juice in our coffee and while I know a few guys who put juice in their cereal, I don't think we should build our definitions of words from their practices.

Since is says SOY in soy milk, no one is getting fooled that this came from a female mammal.

Also the root meaning of the word is 'to stroke' which included the milking process. There is probably some kind of stroking somewhere in the production of soy milk, and often now there is no stroking in the creation of milk products, this being done by machines, hence it is a misnomer now for most milk unless you head out in the countryside or the third world.

That the root has to do with stroking should bolster the claims of the man who keeps bringing up sperm.

Nicotine patch is used for substituting for smoking, but we don't call it cigarette.

Also, as you mentioned juice is used for cereals, and although you feel it wrong, it is an argument for soy juice.... :)

Nicotine patch is used for substituting for smoking, but we don't call it cigarette. yeah, well, a nicotene patch is nothing like a cigarette. You don't smoke it, you place it on your skin. It is not a white cylinder, it's a.....And so on. The texture, shape, often the color, intentions and most of the EXPERIENCE OF THE USER is completely different.


Also, as you mentioned juice is used for cereals, and although you feel it wrong, it is an argument for soy juice.... :)I never said it was wrong. I indicated that it was not common practice. It would be misleading to refer to soy milk as soy juice. Sure it is, just like cow's milk, drunk from a glass, but it is also, often, used in cooking as a substitute for cow's milk, on cereal, in coffee and tea and so on. Also, the truth is, you lose. It is called soy milk
and
use wins in language. But you could move to one of the places where it must be called something else if it is very important to you.

You do know that much of our language is illogical. That's because we are creative and the words are for us. We are not for the language. It is absolutely useful and clear to call soy milk, soy milk. So it will probably continue to be used as its name.

Shall we stop calling cow's milk, milk
because most milk is now milked by machines and not stroked by hand?

Wikipedia, my common sense dictionary gives: Milk is an opaque white liquid produced by the mammary glands of female mammals (including monotremes). So let's stick to soy juice...Wikipedia is right most of the time--and I often cite it myself--but even when it's right it's often incomplete or imprecise. In this case it's incomplete. The sources I cited are respected dictionaries that are allowable as references in academic writing. Wikipedia is not. The secondary meaning of "milk," as a liquid that is similar to true milk in appearance, usage, nutritional or therapeutic properties, is a proper and legitimate use of the word in American English.

SciForums is a place of science and scholarship. This definition is appropriate here.

"Soy milk" and "coconut milk" are legitimate terms.

Technically it is not MILK. BUT 'Soy Milk' is more marketable.:)

Shall we stop calling cow's milk, milk
because most milk is now milked by machines and not stroked by hand?

You got this one backward. The word milk was first and the meaning milking as stroking second...

Legitimate term sure. They are just not logical, that's what this thread about.

By the way Fraggle, what's your take on my prem. ej. thread? I should have posted under linguistic, because it is more of a semantic issue than a biological...

Anf John99 is exactly right, it is about marketig. As Lewis Black said, the notion of "soy juice" makes you gag... :)

So does human sperm....I thought sperm was high in fructose?

A note about soy milk.

It's OK. I used to think it tasted rather crap... but after a while of drinking it I kind of like it.

Almond milk and butter - where can I buy it?

You got this one backward. The word milk was first and the meaning milking as stroking second...

Legitimate term sure. They are just not logical, that's what this thread about.

By the way Fraggle, what's your take on my prem. ej. thread? I should have posted under linguistic, because it is more of a semantic issue than a biological...

Anf John99 is exactly right, it is about marketig. As Lewis Black said, the notion of "soy juice" makes you gag... :)


You may be right. I went by this


milk (n.)
O.E. meoluc (W.Saxon), milc (Anglian), both related to melcan "to milk." The noun is from P.Gmc. *meluk- (cf. O.N. mjolk, Du. melk, Ger. Milch, Goth. miluks); the verb is from P.Gmc. *melkanan (cf. O.N. mjolka, Du., Ger. melken); both from PIE base *melg- "wiping, stroking," in ref. to the hand motion in milking an animal (cf. Gk. amelgein, L. mulgere, O.C.S. mlesti, Lith. melzu "to milk," O.Ir. melg "milk," Skt. marjati "wipes off"). O.C.S. noun meleko (Rus. moloko, Czech mleko) is considered to be adopted from Germanic. Figurative verbal sense of "exploit for profit" is first found 1526. Milkmaid first attested 1552; milkman "one who sells milk" is recorded from 1589. Milk chocolate is first recorded 1723; milk shake is first recorded 1889, for a variety of creations, but the modern version is only from the 1930s. Milk tooth is attested from 1727. To cry over spilt milk is first attested 1836 in writing of Canadian humorist Thomas C. Haliburton. Milk and honey is from the O.T. phrase describing the richness of the Promised Land.
I've read it a couple of times and find it hard to say whether the substance got its name from the action or the reverse.

As far as it being legitimate rather than logical:
1) language is illogical all over the place. To focus on soy milk makes me wonder if there is other motivation. Hence I will push legitimacy arguments.
2) If you look in Wikipedia it is referred to as Soy Milk, Soy Juice, Soy Beverage/drink. If we are thinking of logical, we want our words to reflect the use in the specific culture. To call it soy juice is misleading. To call it soy milk is informative. We use this in the ways cow milk is used. Also juice would tend to call to mind flavors and textures that would make that first sip very unpleasant, even for those who would like the taste - given an appropriate and logical name.

Small containers, especially flavored ones, could certainly be called soy drinks, probably some are.

here's my zinger: JUICE

juice
c.1290, from O.Fr. jus, from L. jus "broth, sauce, juice," from PIE base *yus- (cf. Skt. yus- "broth," O.C.S. jucha "broth, soup," Lith. juse "fish soup"). Meaning "liquor" is from 1828; that of "electricity" is first recorded 1896. Juicy "lively, interesting" first recorded in this sense 1838.

It seems like we've been using juice 'incorrectly' and we certainly wouldn't want to repeat this crime with Soy Milk.

Seriously, I didn't intend such an in-depth discussion on this topic, just wanted to point out the silliness of soy milk.

There is a safe alternative to soy milk! Please consider human milk!

Anyone want cheese with that burger? "Ah yes, this cheese is special, straight from france, they were the first to adopt the new human cheese laws."

Like I'll go up to a beautiful looking woman and ask to suck her teats for thier milk, I'm sure that will go over well.;)

No such thing as soy milk?

What am I going to do with this little tiny stool?

By the way Fraggle, what's your take on my prem. ej. thread? I should have posted under linguistic, because it is more of a semantic issue than a biological.I haven't been following it. I'll have to go back and check it out.
Almond milk and butter - where can I buy it?I don't know about almond milk, but almond butter is easy to find in a gourmet or health-food market like Trader Joe's or Whole Foods.
Seriously, I didn't intend such an in-depth discussion on this topic, just wanted to point out the silliness of soy milk.If you weren't expecting silliness then you came to the wrong subforum. :)

Yea I agree with Syzygys, Soy milk is soy juice as is the same with coconut water. I notice in the States the later is referred as milk, in the islands its referred to as water and in Asia its juice.

I wonder why milk? Maybe its because it resembles milk like someone suggested.

http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/images/mouse-milk.jpg

:eek: then my favorite penetrating oil isn't carefully milked from special little mouses? It seems I've been way overpaying for the stuff. I feel like I'm suffering from magnesia.


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/4160/1616/1600/phillipsmom.jpg

then my favorite penetrating oil isn't carefully milked from special little mouses? It seems I've been way overpaying for the stuff. I feel like I'm suffering from magnesia.At least they market it honestly. The stuff that's legally sold as "beer" in the United States must surely be mouse urine.

At least they market it honestly. The stuff that's legally sold as "beer" in the United States must surely be mouse urine.

Actually I reckon that is something of a myth - provided you know what to buy there is some fantastic beer in the US - most of it produced in microbreweries - the problem is that it stays there.
The only stuff that makes it out of the country is the shit stuff.

(side story) When I was doing my Bsc I had a job in a bar to supplement my meagre student loan income.
We sold proper Czech Budweiser and the pretend American stuff.
Whenever anyone asked for a Bud, just for fun, I'd say "Real Bud or Pretend Bud Sir?"
Invariably they'd ask for the real stuff, so I'd plonk a bottle of the Czech stuff in front of them.
"what the fuck is this?"
"Budwieser Sir"
"Yeah but I asked for the real stuff"
"that is the original budweiser beer sir"
" I mean the other stuff"
"that'll be the fake Budweiser then sir"
"err ok I guess so"
"tell you what - seeing as I've opened it for you - why don't you give it a try"
"(sigh) Oh ok.......(glug!)......fuck! that stuff is Loads Better than the other shit!"

ahh
such a delight, this linguistic forum

Actually I reckon that is something of a myth - provided you know what to buy there is some fantastic beer in the US - most of it produced in microbreweries - the problem is that it stays there.Actually I'm a Californian, despite my steady stream of iconoclastic remarks about my country and most especially its arrogant and incompetent government. California is a haven for microbreweries so we get all the good beer. But still most Americans drink Coors and Miller and all of that interchangeable stuff that really does have the taste and texture of mouse pee. They think they're being adventurous to drink Mexican or Canadian beer.
The only stuff that makes it out of the country is the shit stuff.How odd. Why is there a market for it there at all?
We sold proper Czech Budweiser and the pretend American stuff.One of the key differences between American beer and beer from anywhere else is the alcohol content. It's typically double. I absent-mindedly drank a couple of beers with my dinner in Budapest and could hardly walk out the door. Foreign beers that are imported here have to be specially formulated to conform to our laws.

The Czech name for the city is Budějovice, but when the Germans ruled they always called it Budweis, so the city still calls its beer Budweiser. Just as the Czechs call their city Plzeņ but it was always Pilsen to the Germans so the generic name for that style of brewing is Pilsner.