Is this a good thing? I think so. Maybe it will encourage us to get off of big oil and find cheaper more rational decisions to our energy needs.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/obama-wants-to-roll-back-tax-breaks-for-oil-companies/

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/energy01.pdf

And for the first time, he mentioned natural gas. This is indeed good news. The US is rich in natural gas...and we don't even have to go off shore to get it or drill a mile under the ocean. And it is a much cheaper and a cleaner burning fuel. This is indeed good news for the US economy and for the physical health of our nation and perhaps the world.

We're not going to get off oil. We do NOT want windmills, nuke power or any of the other bs the liberals are offering.

Tax breaks are a good thing, Joe; do you not agree that the wealth ought to be left in the hands of the people?

Tax breaks are a good thing, Joe; do you not agree that the wealth ought to be left in the hands of the people?

I would agree that we all need to bear the expense of government equally and that government ought not to be handing out favors to the few at the expense of the many and the health of the state.

I have a rather simple bottom line, you ought to pay your bills and everyone should pay equally according to their ability to do so....a radical idea is it not :)

We're not going to get off oil. We do NOT want windmills, nuke power or any of the other bs the liberals are offering.

It's not just that we don't want them, their cost to install and operate over time do not justify the amount of energy we get out of them, and nuke power is very dirty and very risky.

Plus, windmills require the use of oils to create many of the parts in them... it's a gigantic irony to use those in order to "get off" of oil. Still, there are many alternatives that haven't been explored or even discovered yet. Or some that have been theorized, but the technology has not yet caught up with it.

I would agree that we all need to bear the expense of government equally and that government ought not to be handing out favors to the few at the expense of the many and the health of the state.

I have a rather simple bottom line, you ought to pay your bills and everyone should pay equally according to their ability to do so....a radical idea is it not

But an immoral idea, it is.

You seem to see all men as a means to an end for the state; remember, Joe, that the state exists to protect our rights, not to siphon off our wealth. A proper-sized government would have no problem running on a low tax establishment, but a rogue government would certainly love the tax.

Paying according to your ability to do so is unfair to the wealthy. You do not pay for a Subway sandwich by your ability to do so: you pay the price that it entails. Similarly, if we are all paying for government, we ought to pay the real price, equally.

But an immoral idea, it is.

You seem to see all men as a means to an end for the state; remember, Joe, that the state exists to protect our rights, not to siphon off our wealth. A proper-sized government would have no problem running on a low tax establishment, but a rogue government would certainly love the tax.

Paying according to your ability to do so is unfair to the wealthy. You do not pay for a Subway sandwich by your ability to do so: you pay the price that it entails. Similarly, if we are all paying for government, we ought to pay the real price, equally.

There is nothing immoral about this issue. You can cry over spilled milk all you want and you can debate big government versus small government and this program over that program. But at the end of the day, the government has a huge national debt that needs to be paid down.

And it has to be paid based on ability to pay. What are you going to do with those who can barely afford to put food in their belliies and a roof over their heads? Are you going to execute them?

If you want to cry about federal spending, it is too late for that. The money has already been spent. The time for crying out about federal spending was 10 years ago when the money was being spent.

I don't know what you were doing back then, but I was decrying federal spending. I find it funny that none of the people now complaining about paying back the money now were complaining about federal spending under george II.

And I personally find nothing immoral in paying ones debts. As a citizen of this country, each of our names is on that debt. Paying back the debt has nothing to do with being an agent of the state. In theory, we own the government. We, in theory, elect officials who act on our behalf. Well they acted, they were our agents. Now we have to pay for the damages.

What I find sad is that a number of people want to put the same clowns that gave us this debt back in office. Now that is beyond immoral, that is just plain dumb!

That's just it: it's not our debt.

The politicians should all be rounded up and forced to pay all the trillions of dollars in debt or executed.

There we go: justice! Because it's not my debt, or yours. It's the politicians' fault.

That's just it: it's not our debt.

The politicians should all be rounded up and forced to pay all the trillions of dollars in debt or executed.

There we go: justice! Because it's not my debt, or yours. It's the politicians' fault.

If I had it my way, all the folks who voted for or supported with money (donations) the clowns who doubled the national debt in addition to the clowns themselves would pay for the debt they inflicted on the American people. But you know that is not going to happen. So you have to do the next best thing. And we have to pay it off.

We're not going to get off oil. We do NOT want windmills, nuke power or any of the other bs the liberals are offering.

Actually, conservatives are for nuclear power plants, liberals aren't. Currently France generates 70% of it's energy from Nuclear power. It does work.

If I had it my way, all the folks who voted for or supported with money (donations) the clowns who doubled the national debt in addition to the clowns themselves would pay for the debt they inflicted on the American people. But you know that is not going to happen. So you have to do the next best thing. And we have to pay it off.

Well then the first thing to do is to stop spending so much and get rid of the goons in office.

Well then the first thing to do is to stop spending so much and get rid of the goons in office.

I agree. We need to get rid of the goons in office who spent the money. And we do need to stop the spending or pay for it when the expense is incurred and not add it to the national credit card.

The problem is that when Congress and bush II spent the money they also committed the country to future spending that can only be reversed with an act of Congress and the signature of the POTUS. And we all know how difficult that is, don't we. Especially since one party will not cooperate on anything and no one party has the super majority required to get things through the Senate.

The next best thing is to try to trim existing expenditures (e.g. healthcare) by getting more bang for the buck.

No, we should just abolish most of the stupid government functions and programs that we currently have.

No, we should just abolish most of the stupid government functions and programs that we currently have.

Yeah, we have to live within the rules or we can leave for other places. No one is forcing us to stay here.

Yeah, we have to live within the rules or we can leave for other places. No one is forcing us to stay here.

Right, but irrelevant; the point is, if we are to be a free country, we need as small and as weak a government as possible.

In order to be free, we need to check the power that can challenge that freedom, and it comes from corporations. In order to keep our wealth we need to tax those corporations, because the government is the people. There is nothing inherently moral about capitalism, it does not work for the public good, only the bottom line.

Right, but irrelevant; the point is, if we are to be a free country, we need as small and as weak a government as possible.

Now that is an interesting statement. I am sure our enemies would like to see our government as weak as possible and as small as possible.

We live in an ever more complex world. And as the complexity of our world increases, the need for more government regulation and rules of the road also grow.

We no longer are a culture of simple farmers.

It's not just that we don't want them, their cost to install and operate over time do not justify the amount of energy we get out of them, and nuke power is very dirty and very risky. Plus, windmills require the use of oils to create many of the parts in them... it's a gigantic irony to use those in order to "get off" of oil. Still, there are many alternatives that haven't been explored or even discovered yet. Or some that have been theorized, but the technology has not yet caught up with it.
Agreed. Most Americans have rejected alternative fuels. We like our vehicles and are not giving them up.


Actually, conservatives are for nuclear power plants, liberals aren't. Currently France generates 70% of it's energy from Nuclear power. It does work.

I should have said we do not want to replace oil with nuke.

We're not going to get off oil. We do NOT want windmills, nuke power or any of the other bs the liberals are offering.

You'll be getting off oil whether you like it or not. It's a limited resource that is rapidly running out.


That's just it: it's not our debt.

The politicians should all be rounded up and forced to pay all the trillions of dollars in debt or executed.

There we go: justice! Because it's not my debt, or yours. It's the politicians' fault.

1. You elected the politicians.
2. That debt was spent on you (e.g. consider the billions of dollars the government has paid subsidising its farmers over the years, rather than allowing them to compete in Norsefire's great "free market". And that's just one example of thousands.)
3. If you call for the execution of elected officials again, you will be banned from sciforums.

Hey, it's a decent way to pay for your huge debt the republicans left you in.

Might as well try to pay it down a bit now, b4 y'all elect another moronic Republican Government, and they just print a trillion or two, of the wortless backed by nothing Paper again.

Probally to pay for another war, they seem to love sending young Americans in everytime there in office. (the Republicans)

We're not going to get off oil. We do NOT want windmills, nuke power or any of the other bs the liberals are offering.

So. . . being permanently addicted to oil is a good thing? Pursuing any more advanced options is out of the question? Do you not believe that we should at least attempt other options. . . you know, for the sake of advanced technology and whatnot?

What's wrong with wind and nuke power? They both work.

And, who's "we"? Last I checked, the Dems won the Congress and Presidency. The only "we" that matters is on election day. Every other poll is bullshit.

~String

We're not going to get off oil. We do NOT want windmills, nuke power or any of the other bs the liberals are offering.

We want to continue sucking Arab dick for their precious drug you say? I did not know you supported them so much, its great sending money to terrorist isn't it?

I think it is pretty obvious we need to become energy independent, and we do have the ability to do so. And we have a number of options including wind, solar, hydroelectric, nuclear, geothermal, and a key bridge fuel...natural gas.

I am not a big fan of T. Boone Pickens. But he has outlined a great plan which appears to be gaining some momentum in Washington. President Obama has been endorsing natual gas since last week...a good sign.

Becoming energy independent would cut out 2/3's of our trade deficit. Additionally, it would provide millions of good paying American jobs. We could invest a billion dollars a day in American jobs rather than sending it overseas where it is being used to build palaces in the dessert.

I would encourage everyone to take a look at T. Boone's plan and sign his petition.

http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/

1. You elected the politicians. I did? I didn't vote for Obama. Or Bush.

2. That debt was spent on you (e.g. consider the billions of dollars the government has paid subsidising its farmers over the years, rather than allowing them to compete in Norsefire's great "free market". And that's just one example of thousands.) If you actually bother to educate yourself, you'd know why we are subsidizing farmers (I'll give you a hint: it has to do with stupid farm resource distortions by "alternative fuels", and with the factory farming industry).

3. If you call for the execution of elected officials again, you will be banned from sciforums.
Surely not...? I thought you wanted us to speak our minds. True, sciforums is a private website, and you ought to be free to ban whomever you want, but I thought this was a place of intellectual discourse. And, as you put it, "calling" for their execution is merely a statement of what is just; surely, destroying a country is unjust? Do you agree or disagree? And if it is unjust, which it is, then the criminals responsible ought to be properly punished.

It is no different than calling for any other sort of justice. Though I do think it's a problem with you, James, and not with what I said. I did not say "Go and execute these officials"; I said that they ought to be executed. One is a threat; the other is an opinion.

Perhaps you ought to look up the definition of that word "tolerance" that you like to use so often; it is not unjust of me to want justice against the corrupt politicians that have destroyed our country. I know that you think that the punishment of the evil is "barbaric" and "backwards", but I do not. As harsh as it is, people who destroy countries deserve every bit of it.

I think it is pretty obvious we need to become energy independent, and we do have the ability to do so. And we have a number of options including wind, solar, hydroelectric, nuclear, geothermal, and a key bridge fuel...natural gas.





Do you think anyone really cares?
I concluded that not.
Please,take a look here.


http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2551115&postcount=18

Do you think anyone really cares?
I concluded that not.
Please,take a look here.


http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2551115&postcount=18

Oh I am sure some people care. But we live, in theory, in a representative democracy. And most people have not cared in the past. And that is why more informed people need to convince others to care and why it is important to care.

And to be honest, taxes on big oil companies is better then taxes directly on the public, and guess what peeps thanks to the Republicans, you all will need to absorb lots of new taxes in the future, or let inflation go through the roof to kill your debt bush the 2nd caused.