You would think that in an age when American government officials are wringing their hands about nuclear weapons—Iran! Terror! Iran! Terror!—that the least we might expect of our government is to have a clue about its own nuclear weapons components. For instance, if we worry that a "rogue state" might distribute nuclear components to terrorists, maybe we should not be losing track of ours by the hundreds:


The Pentagon has played down reports that the US military cannot locate hundreds of sensitive nuclear missile components.

Several government officials told the FT on Wednesday a secret Pentagon report into nuclear safeguards had found the air force could not account for many components previously included in its inventory. One said more than 1,000 were missing.

Responding to the story, Bryan Whitman, Pentagon spokesman, on Thursday conceded there was a "weakness" in record keeping, but said there was no evidence security of the nuclear arsenal had been compromised.

"There is a difference between missing items and not having a full and complete auditable paper trail for every component," said Mr Whitman.

Another official insisted the air force had not lost any nuclear weapons or components, although neither official could explain how the air force was certain no weapons were missing, given the accounting problems.

(Sevastopulo (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f6c2692e-3e50-11dd-b16d-0000779fd2ac.html))

Now, in all likelihood, these parts aren't floating around the black market. But if we can accidentally ship weapons components to Taiwan, or lose track of several actual nuclear weapons, it would be nice to know the missing parts are still here. In other words, it would do much for public confidence to not lose the parts. To borrow an infamous concept, our inventory records should probably be reconciled before something blows up.

The current episode seems to be yet more evidence of what Admiral Kirkland Donald, who investigated the prior incidents, called, "the gradual erosion of nuclear standards". When Halliburton can (twice! (http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/03/30/fox_news/index.html)) lose track (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-02-10-halliburton-missing-material_x.htm) of Americium suitable for a "dirty bomb", that's bad enough. But when the government admits it doesn't know where its parts for making a full-blown nuclear weapon are, what the hell is anyone supposed to think?
____________________

Notes:

Sevasstopulo, Demetri. "Nuclear parts missing, says US report". FT.com. Updated June 20, 2008. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/06f80abc-3e63-11dd-b16d-0000779fd2ac.html

See Also:

Sirota, David J. "The Fox of War". Salon. March 30, 2004. http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/03/30/fox_news/index.html

Associated Press. "Lost Halliburton nuclear material found". USA Today. Updated February 10, 2005. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-02-10-halliburton-missing-material_x.htm

The Clinton's sold them to Communist China for campaign contributions...:crazy:

Time Line of Clinton China Decisions: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/1998/h980618-prc8.htm

Clinton Gave China Chips for Nuclear War: http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/25139.shtml

tiassa, maybe they went "missing" while being shiped past israil.

Seriously how dumb do you have to be to lose weaponry like this. I thought that NCIS eposode where the weapons were out of the system as soon as they went on the truck and not back into the system untill they arived at the new base was just a silly TV senaro. Maybe that judgement was wrong

our government is to have a clue about its own nuclear weapons components

Just because some internal parts of a nuclear device are missing I don't see the need to get excited about it for a few reasons. Nuclear devices have MANY components in them besides the fissionable material that could explode. So if a washer or nut went missing that would be a part of a nuclear device then that would be reported as a missing part of a nuclear device even though it really isn't harmful. ;)

Just because some internal parts of a nuclear device are missing I don't see the need to get excited about it for a few reasons. Nuclear devices have MANY components in them besides the fissionable material that could explode. So if a washer or nut went missing that would be a part of a nuclear device then that would be reported as a missing part of a nuclear device even though it really isn't harmful. ;)

I agree with that. ^^^^^^^

Since a list of missing parts will surely not be forthcoming, we cannot know if it's nothing more than electrical connectors, panel covers, nuts, bolts, decals, etc. To just automatically assume it's active nuclear material is both premature and a bit of pure sensationalism.

To react as both the press and the OP did does not speak well of either of them.

Is a nut or a washer something that might be classified as a "sensitive" component?

I mean, flash capacitors (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,969788,00.html), at that scale, were enough to make the feds really nervous eighteen years ago.

I wouldn't worry if it was a screw, or even a gasket, but the idea that these are considered sensitive components does make me wonder. Of course, one of the things I wonder is if we, the people, will ever get to find out what is missing.

I wouldn't get to worried because many other countries have nuclear devices as well but they NEVER tell anyone if something is missing.

i would suggest that the more dangerious the componates the less likly you are to ever know. Pitty that, i would LOVE to see the senate estimates hearing if this was an australian case:p

edit to add: Read-only i doubt that it was nuts and bolts however. Look at the quote, insted of saying this is nothing dangerious the pentigon offical goes into a deffinition of "lost". That made me more concerned than the headline because that sort of ducking and weaving usually occurs when the goverment (or departments) are really caught out about something

Is a nut or a washer something that might be classified as a "sensitive" component?

I mean, flash capacitors (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,969788,00.html), at that scale, were enough to make the feds really nervous eighteen years ago.

I wouldn't worry if it was a screw, or even a gasket, but the idea that these are considered sensitive components does make me wonder. Of course, one of the things I wonder is if we, the people, will ever get to find out what is missing.

Yes, it's likely to be more than just nuts or washers - BUT it could also mena nothing more than highly advanced electronic components. Things like guidance system parts, ranging, timing, etc. that are probably most likely considered secret.

THAT'S' what I would really bet on as opposed to nuclear material. I would think by now that most adults would know that the press always puts the WORST possible spin on a story - even if they don't come out and say it, they certainly make it implied.

edit to add: Read-only i doubt that it was nuts and bolts however. Look at the quote, insted of saying this is nothing dangerious the pentigon offical goes into a deffinition of "lost". That made me more concerned than the headline because that sort of ducking and weaving usually occurs when the goverment (or departments) are really caught out about something

While that's true, it's also their NORMAL method of operation anyway! :D So, in itself, it doesn't mean much.

But I do belive that there are a dozen countries that already have the same or similar information about these nuclear devices as America does already.

Its easy money.

Its easy money.

What's "easy money" mean?

Someone is always willing to buy it, its a sellers market.

I've never been asked to buy anything from anyone poretaining nuclear devices, have you? Is it that prevelant? I would think that with all of the information available throygh education that anyone with a good education could just design their own devices so why buy them?:shrug:

Its easy money.
No kidding. The Clinton's have never experienced a hard days work in their lives. Like Palestinians on welfare.

Is a nut or a washer something that might be classified as a "sensitive" component?
Funny enough, but yes. Anything that can be found on the parts list for nuclear ordnance is sensitive by default, regardless of what it is. I have no idea what kind of parts were involved here, but I'm willing to bet it was something anonymous enough to get lost easily. Parts of the actual physics package? Not likely.

In any case, controlled material is controlled material, and it evidently was lost. That sucks anytime.

I would think by now that most adults would know that the press always puts the WORST possible spin on a story No, the respectable press has a long and well-documented record of downplaying and reassurance - to the point of coverup - in this kind of incident.

Haven't we had a story like this about once every couple of years or so for the past 20, 30, 40 years ?

Funny enough, but yes. Anything that can be found on the parts list for nuclear ordnance is sensitive by default, regardless of what it is. I have no idea what kind of parts were involved here, but I'm willing to bet it was something anonymous enough to get lost easily. Parts of the actual physics package? Not likely.

In any case, controlled material is controlled material, and it evidently was lost. That sucks anytime.

Thanks yet again for the much needed context. As usual, the newsmedia didn't bother to provide that little nuance for its readers.

Althouh frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of SNAFU. The top guys of the Air Force have been recently fired by Gates for systematic failures. These people have been out of action for so many years they have grown complacent and inattentive. That's when mistakes happen.

Its a fake context:


The Defense Department mistakenly shipped secret nuclear missile fuses to Taiwan more than 18 months ago and did not learn that the items were missing until late last week, Pentagon officials acknowledged yesterday, deepening concerns about the security of the U.S. nuclear arsenal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/25/AR2008032501309.html

Talking out of your ass does not constitute reality

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/03/26/GR2008032600233.gif

Its a fake context:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/25/AR2008032501309.html

Talking out of your ass does not constitute reality

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/03/26/GR2008032600233.gif
*************
M*W: Reeks of "cover-up" to me.

Thanks yet again for the much needed context. As usual, the newsmedia didn't bother to provide that little nuance for its readers. Providing such a "nuance" would have raised several questions of a fairly sensational and specific nature, compared with the standard provision of a wide area of deniability and reassurance.

Holy shit, a nose cone vs. a box of batteries. How do you fuck that up?

Holy shit, a nose cone vs. a box of batteries. How do you fuck that up?

I'll tell you how. The inventory is probably kept in DB2 format, and the database has not been properly monitored, so it turned into this huge bottomless pit of tables and rows. Some guy placed an order for certain parts in a certain table which contains certain fields, with out looking what those fields actually contain.

Or maybe he queried a different database using the same query he used in another database.

Anyway, it's all because of how data is stored.

Maybe they just dropped the stuff somewhere and could not find it


Government experts are investigating a claim that an unarmed nuclear bomb, lost off the Georgia coast at the height of the Cold War, might have been found, an Air Force spokesman said Monday.

The hydrogen bomb was lost in the Atlantic Ocean in 1958 following a collision of a B-47 bomber and an F-86 fighter.

A group led by retired Air Force Lt. Col. Derek Duke of Statesboro, Georgia, said in July that it had found a large object underwater near Savannah that was emitting high levels of radioactivity, according to an Associated Press report.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/13/lost.bomb/index.html


Maybe it was an accident:


Iran may have the weapons-grade uranium out of three nuclear warheads dumped out of a B-52 back in 1991. Or so at least the US government might have some reason to believe, according to a seemingly well-informed person talking to CounterPunch last week.

On February 3, 1991, this particular B-52G had been deployed to circle around Baghdad. It was armed with 3 SRAM missiles armed with nuclear warheads and fitted with rocket drives to push them 100 miles to the rear of the B-52 before detonating.

The B-52 was heading off to refuel when it developed very serious electrical problems, including the loss of navigational equipment.

Hoping to limp back to base on the island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, the crew were heading the plane south just off the coast of Somalia when fires in five of the engines threatened to detonate the heat sensitive fuse mechanisms of the SRAMS. Thinking they would plummet into deep water the crew dumped the nuclear bombs, and the B-52 crashed not long thereafter. Some members of the crew died, others survived and were picked up.

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn07302005.html

Some guy placed an order for certain parts in a certain table which contains certain fields, with out looking what those fields actually contain. And some guy, actually a chain of several guys, in a warehouse in Utah packed and loaded a shipment of nuclear missile parts to be delivered to Taiwan, without batting an eye.

Would that work at other helicopter maintenance bases ? Can Iran get hold of US nuclear missile parts by corrupting a Blackwater or Halliburton contractor, and simply having them ordered and delivered to an unsecure warehouse in Iraq ?

I think if the Iranians want a nuclear weapon, they should just make a requisition to the Pentagon. They'll probably get one asap.

i was thinking the same thing sam, why are they bothering with all these tests. if they wanted one they could just order it and it seems the stupid MORONS in dispact just send it without once looking at if the order is LOGICAL.

I mean seriouly how the hell does the goverement alow this sort of incopitance, the people wouldnt accpet if a shipment of morphine intended for the public hospital ended up being delivered to a school, and the school textbooks to the hospital. This would call for some high level public servents head, but lose a nuke?, deliver parts to tiwan (who make everything ANYWAY:p)? have thousands of componants just disapear?

Even if they were simply screws someone should get fired for losing goverment poperty, if its anything more dangers then every single person who handled (both by computer and by hand) them should be proicuted

Oh I think they shuffle people around when there are headlines, but then all these old boys are like glue and they probably have Swiss accounts busting at the seams anyway.

^^ lol


Even if they were simply screws someone should get fired for losing goverment poperty, if its anything more dangers then every single person who handled (both by computer and by hand) them should be proicuted

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/06/airforce_moseleywynne_060508w/


Moseley and Wynne forced out

Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley and Secretary Michael W. Wynne were forced to resign Thursday during hastily arranged meetings with their Pentagon bosses.

Moseley was summoned from the Corona leadership summit at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, to an early morning meeting at the Pentagon with Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to discuss a report on the Air Force’s problems handling nuclear weapons.

The report, by Navy Adm. Kirkland Donald, director of naval nuclear propulsion, revealed widespread problems and convinced Defense Secretary Robert Gates that senior officials must be held accountable.

Moseley resigned in response.

Later in the morning, Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England was dispatched to Wright-Patterson to ask for Wynne’s resignation, sources said. Wynne resigned during the meeting.

At a Pentagon press briefing Thursday afternoon, Gates said his decision to seek their resignations was “based entirely” on the Donald report, which uncovered a “gradual erosion of nuclear standards and a lack of effective oversight by Air Force leadership.”

Gates, who began his career working nuclear security issues as an Air Force intelligence officer in the 1960s, also said a “substantial” number of Air Force general officers and colonels more immediately responsible for recent lapses could still be reprimanded or fired in the wake of the report.

Michael W. Wynne is an American business executive

There you go...

The Clinton's sold them to Communist China for campaign contributions...:crazy:

Time Line of Clinton China Decisions: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/1998/h980618-prc8.htm

Clinton Gave China Chips for Nuclear War: http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/25139.shtml

Another very good source addressing Clinton's idiotic China policy and China's attitude towards America: The China Threat: How the People's Republic Targets America, by Bill Gertz. Interesting book.

You would think that in an age when American government officials are wringing their hands about nuclear weapons—Iran! Terror! Iran! Terror!—that the least we might expect of our government is to have a clue about its own nuclear weapons components.
Whoa. Government is retarded.

Good to see you admit that government should be a minimal influence in our lives because it can not be trusted to protect our best interests for us.

Funny to watch you parse flavors of government according to your personal preferences.

A fox smells his own hole first.

actually Mr G it seems to me that the problem is less day to day oversite of the millarty by the public service and the goverment. In australia we have an orgainsation called the autitor generals department which comes under the parliment (rather than a goverment department) which has finantial oversite over EVER goverment dollor. Recently there was a huge amount of controvicy because of an AG report into a programe called "regional partnerships" by the previous goverment which gave alot of ammo to the oposition. These sorts of offices (both the oposition and the AG department itself) keep the goverments focus on these sorts of incidents because they embaris the goverment. That means high command know they cant get away with this sort of incompitance

Whoa. Government is retarded.

Good to see you admit that government should be a minimal influence in our lives because it can not be trusted to protect our best interests for us.

Funny to watch you parse flavors of government according to your personal preferences.

A fox smells his own hole first.

i'm shocked you know foxes live in holes.

great... So, where's the global outcry ?
It's not like they sent the parts to australia right ?

Good to see you admit that government should be a minimal influence in our lives because it can not be trusted to protect our best interests for us.

Yes, but apparently your government can be trusted to protect the best interests of Middle Easterners.

Government is retarded.
You can say that again.

"That government is best which governs least." -- Henry David Thoreau

The Pentagon has played down reports that the US military cannot locate hundreds of sensitive nuclear missile components.

Several government officials told the FT on Wednesday a secret Pentagon report into nuclear safeguards had found the air force could not account for many components previously included in its inventory. One said more than 1,000 were missing.

Responding to the story, Bryan Whitman, Pentagon spokesman, on Thursday conceded there was a "weakness" in record keeping, but said there was no evidence security of the nuclear arsenal had been compromised.

"There is a difference between missing items and not having a full and complete auditable paper trail for every component," said Mr Whitman.

Another official insisted the air force had not lost any nuclear weapons or components, although neither official could explain how the air force was certain no weapons were missing, given the accounting problems.

(Sevastopulo)



Losing 1, 2, 10 pcs of components is understandable, but more than 1000? :crazy:

Ok, perhaps they are all in one box.

Ok, perhaps they are all in one box.
They are in the same box with Hillary's Rose Law Firm files.

http://www.popmatters.com/images/blog_art/b/book_warehouse.jpg

The righties are trying to talk about Clinton again, same old made up stuff.

The cold war was proven not to be fought so much with weapons but intelligence, espionage and of course misinformation. Perhaps it's not that 1000 or more components are missing but the fact they never actually existed in the first place.

MOD HAT:
OilIsMastery if you cant post relivent infomation then im going to have to start deleting you offtopic posts

MOD HAT:
OilIsMastery if you cant post relivent infomation then im going to have to start deleting you offtopic posts
My posts in this thread are precisely on topic.

Nuclear components were sold by the Clinton's in exchange for campaign contributions.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/25139.shtml


Newly declassified documents show that President Bill Clinton personally approved the transfer to China of advanced space technology that can be used for nuclear combat.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/1998/h980618-prc8.htm


As the Clinton administration debated whether to allow U.S. satellites to be lofted into orbit aboard Chinese missiles, Bernard Schwartz, chairman of Loral Space & Communications, and Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung, allegedly using money from the Chinese army, gave more than $500,000 in soft money, ostensibly used for `party-building efforts,' to the Democrats.

This is a well known historical fact.

This is a well known historical fact. And it's completely irrelevant, without some kind of connection by argument.

We are developing a need for a subsidiary category of Godwin's Law, for handling Clinton references.

I thought this was an interesting opinion piece:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/22/bz-take-closer-look-at-air-forces-nuclear-blunder/

Basically, the author thinks that part of the reason the AF dropped the ball so badly here is because custody of the nation's nuclear arsenal, once the sole mission of Strategic Command (STRATCOM), was allowed to slip by the wayside as STRATCOM's mission focus was diluted and diversified following 9/11. The other two problems he identifies are growing privatization of critical (read: not support) positions and the myopic tendency of leaders, STRATCOM leadership included, to focus on today's hot topics - Afghanistan and Iraq - so far as to lose sight of their primary mission - keeping our nuclear arsenal secure and deployable.