Has anyone seen this?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html#ixzz19Wmdzyir

I am curious what Christians think.

I think it's insane politics.

In his traditional Christmas address yesterday to cardinals and officials working in Rome, Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.

Isn't Christianity a great religion! NOT!

With statements like that no wonder people are leaving the Catholic church in droves these days. How many children will have to suffer at the hands of these perverts before people just stop going to the church altogether.

Isn't Christianity a great religion! NOT!

With statements like that no wonder people are leaving the Catholic church in droves these days. How many children will have to suffer at the hands of these perverts before people just stop going to the church altogether.

you don't "go" to church anyway. christianity isn't meant to be a religion, it's meant to be a state of existence, that doesn't require, encourage, or rationalize, any of this pageantry, politics, greed, lies, or pedophilia. the catholic church is not the church.

i am the church.

Isn't Christianity a great religion! NOT!


i do not consider Catholics as Christian,the word Christian only means 'Christ-like', and i seriously doubt that Christ was a child molester..

attack catholics all you want, just don't include christians in that..

(yes i am aware that catholisism was founded on jesus,they lost their way..)

christians are wolves in sheeps clothing. all of them. even the ones on here who pretend otherwise. they may not even realize it but they are perpetuating a religion because it all is based on the bible which will continually uphold and strengthen religion.

all fundamental religions need to have less power.

“We cannot remain silent about the context of these times in which these events have come to light,” he said, citing the growth of child pornography “that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society” he said.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html#ixzz19aCe5jqV

In fact, child pornography indeed seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society.
Many kinds of evils indeed seem in some way to be considered more and more normal by society.

Consider, for example, how people have been giving in to capitalist exploitation. Everyone sees it, the majority of the population suffers from it, but few act against it.

In the name of democracy and free speech, a number of things are becoming considered more and more permissible.


It is a grave misconstruing of what the pope said to claim he justifies paedophilia in the Catholic church on the grounds that society views it as more and more normal.

The pope clearly
1. "called on senior clerics “to repair as much as possible the injustices that occurred” and to help victims heal through a better presentation of the Christian message"
and
2. "said sex tourism in the Third World was “threatening an entire generation”".

Obviously, he is not in favor of paedophilia, and does not justify it.

In fact, child pornography indeed seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society.
Many kinds of evils indeed seem in some way to be considered more and more normal by society.

Consider, for example, how people have been giving in to capitalist exploitation. Everyone sees it, the majority of the population suffers from it, but few act against it.

In the name of democracy and free speech, a number of things are becoming considered more and more permissible.


It is a grave misconstruing of what the pope said to claim he justifies paedophilia in the Catholic church on the grounds that society views it as more and more normal.

The pope clearly
1. "called on senior clerics “to repair as much as possible the injustices that occurred” and to help victims heal through a better presentation of the Christian message"
and
2. "said sex tourism in the Third World was “threatening an entire generation”".

Obviously, he is not in favor of paedophilia, and does not justify it.

You compared capitalist exploitation -in a capitalist system- with child rape?

How or where child pronography is being considered normal? Most of the world fighting with it very fiercely.

Obviously not something to be proud of, but in my country if you're not already killed, you'll be dead in a week in the jail along with the other rapists.

And you think fundamentally there is nothing wrong with Pope's statement?

you don't "go" to church anyway. christianity isn't meant to be a religion, it's meant to be a state of existence, that doesn't require, encourage, or rationalize, any of this pageantry, politics, greed, lies, or pedophilia. the catholic church is not the church.

i am the church.

How many times have you seen the movie "Stigmata"?

Does the movie's release coincide with your unfortunate experience leading you to Jesus, or did it all happen later?

christians are wolves in sheeps clothing. all of them. even the ones on here who pretend otherwise. they may not even realize it but they are perpetuating a religion because it all is based on the bible which will continually uphold and strengthen religion.

all fundamental religions need to have less power.

this is what the bible says...

Revelation 17

Babylon, the Prostitute on the Beast

1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery:

BABYLON THE GREAT

THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES

AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7 Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled. 18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

And this is related to child rape ignored by the church, because?

christians are wolves in sheeps clothing. all of them. even the ones on here who pretend otherwise. they may not even realize it but they are perpetuating a religion because it all is based on the bible which will continually uphold and strengthen religion.

all fundamental religions need to have less power.

Don't be biased. Add Muslims, Jews, Buddhists...etc. all the bullshit bearers to the list.

And this is related to child rape ignored by the church, because?

did you read it?

birch was talking about the bible perpetuating such things. again, THE church is not the catholic church. the catholic church, along with any organized religion that seeks to take the place of the church, is a whore.

what is a whore? it's a cheap substitute for a bride. one that can be bought and sold.

Whore is not a cheap substitute for a bride. Whore is a prostitute. A heavy worker in urgent need of a strong international union and the respect she/he deserves. They are not in any way different or less moral serving a society than others.

The civilisation we have is a disgusting hypocrisy, an archaic system of a thousand standards of bullshit.

Your idea dictates -with all the religion's bullshit- "if you want to have sex, get married!" which is an impossibility even in your delusion.

It's not your god's or anyone's place to tell people who or how to fuck!

I understand what birch is saying, I agree with him and added more of the perpetuating kind.

Your pope should have said: "There is nothing against pedophilia in the bible." At least it would be consistent with the book. Wasn't there something about homosexuality in it? Apperantly child raping goes OK., but not sex between consenting adults.

I am adding a second link explaining the very supporting "logic" for Pope's statement.

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/or/or_eng/text.html#1

"...In modern thinking, the word "conscience" signifies that for moral and religious questions, it is the subjective dimension, the individual, that constitutes the final authority for decision. The world is divided into the realms of the objective and the subjective. To the objective realm belong things that can be calculated and verified by experiment. Religion and morals fall outside the scope of these methods and are therefore considered to lie within the subjective realm. Here, it is said, there are in the final analysis no objective criteria. The ultimate instance that can decide here is therefore the subject alone, and precisely this is what the word "conscience" expresses: in this realm only the individual, with his intuitions and experiences, can decide. ..."

No, there is a very objective criteria. Children have to be protected from any kind of harm. No god, realm, individual or subjective opinion or a twisted logic have a right to blurr this. It's simple.

And if your religion and "morals" falls outside of this "objective realm", it's simply supporting what's happening.

Whore is not a cheap substitute for a bride. Whore is a prostitute. A heavy worker in urgent need of a strong international union and the respect she/he deserves. They are not in any way different or less moral serving a society than others.

The civilisation we have is a disgusting hypocrisy, an archaic system of a thousand standards of bullshit.

Your idea dictates -with all the religion's bullshit- "if you want to have sex, get married!" which is an impossibility even in your delusion.

It's not your god's or anyone's place to tell people who or how to fuck!

I understand what birch is saying, I agree with him and added more of the perpetuating kind.

Your pope should have said: "There is nothing against pedophilia in the bible." At least it would be consistent with the book. Wasn't there something about homosexuality in it? Apperantly child raping goes OK., but not sex between consenting adults.

you of course can refer to someone as a whore even if it's not in relation to selling sex, and of course i was referring to a whore as a prostitute in regards to the analogy i made between the catholic church and THE church, and the whore in revelations and the bride of christ.

i'm not talking about your stupid fucking morals, nor telling you who or how to fuck, so perhaps you'll refrain from your pathetic, defensive, emotional tyrade.

in the bible, the relationship between christ and the church is referred to as a marriage, and represents communion.

relevant music break, compliments of apocalyptica and corey taylor. enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMLsF8ajI6U

what i want to know is, how can corey taylor be so fucking cool? THAT is the real mystery...

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html#ixzz19Wmdzyir

I am curious what Christians think.

I am not a Catholic, nor am I a defender of the faith. However, in all honesty the article cited in the OP grossly misrepresents what the Pope said. The Pope did not endorse child porn or any other kind of porn nor did he endorse child abuse - sexual or otherwise.

The Pope did try to explain what happened. And he admitted church cuppability, but he also said that society was becoming more tolerant of sexual misconduct.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/20/world/main7168168.shtml

"Benedict also said, however, that the scandal must be seen in a broader social context, in which child pornography is seemingly considered normal by society and drug use and sexual tourism are on the rise.

"The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times," Benedict said.

He said that as recently as the 1970s, pedophilia wasn't considered an absolute evil but rather part of a spectrum of behaviors that people refused to judge in the name of tolerance and relativism.

As an avalanche of cases of pedophile priests came to light, church officials frequently defended their previous practice of putting abusers in therapy, not jail, by saying that was the norm in society at the time. Only this year did the Vatican post on its website unofficial guidelines for bishops to report pedophile priests to police if local laws require it.

"In the 1970s, pedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children," the pope said. "It was maintained - even within the realm of Catholic theology - that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a 'better than' and a 'worse than.' Nothing is good or bad in itself."

"The effects of such theories are evident today," he said.

The traditional Christmas speech to Vatican cardinals and bishops is an eagerly anticipated address that Benedict uses to focus the church hierarchy on key issues.

Benedict has previously acknowledged that the scandal was the result of sin that the church must repent for, and make amends with victims. He repeated Monday that the church must do a better job of screening out abusers and helping victims heal.

"It is fundamentally disturbing to watch a brilliant man so conveniently misdiagnose a horrific scandal," said Barbara Blaine, president of the main U.S. victims' group Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.

She said the scandal wasn't caused by the 1970s but rather by the church's culture of secrecy and fixation with self-preservation in which predator priests and the bishops who moved them around rather than turn them in were rarely disciplined.

"Whenever the pope tires of talking about abuse and starts acting on abuse, he should focus on taking immediate, pratical steps to oust those who commit, ignore and conceal clergy sex crimes first," Blaine said.

The sex abuse scandal, which first exploded in the U.S. in 2002, erupted on a global scale this year with revelations of thousands of victims in Europe and beyond, of bishops who covered up for pedophile priests and of Vatican officials who turned a blind eye to the crimes for decades.

Questions were raised about how Benedict himself handled cases both as archbishop in Munich and as head of the Vatican office that handled abuse cases.

Recently, the Vatican released documentation showing that as early as 1988 then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger sought to find quicker ways to permanently remove priests who raped and molested children in a bid to get around church law that made it difficult to defrock priests against their will.

While Ratzinger was unsuccessful then, Vatican rules now allow for fast-track defrocking. But victims advocates say the Vatican still has a long way to go in terms of requiring bishops to report sex crimes to police and release information and documentation about known pedophiles. " - CBS

you of course can refer to someone as a whore even if it's not in relation to selling sex, and of course i was referring to a whore as a prostitute in regards to the analogy i made between the catholic church and THE church, and the whore in revelations and the bride of christ.

i'm not talking about your stupid fucking morals, nor telling you who or how to fuck, so perhaps you'll refrain from your pathetic, defensive, emotional tyrade.

in the bible, the relationship between christ and the church is referred to as a marriage, and represents communion.

Let it out girl, but don't go beyond yourself with concepts, you confuse yourself, it looks embarrassing.

It's perfectly clear what's meant in my post. Interestingly you're intelligent enough to understand it, but not good at acting stupid.

I am not talking about my fucking morals either, it's private.

It's not any irrelevant than your answer to birch's post. Actually, mine is better related to yours,his and the topic.

Relevant photo break.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/Ejderha/ImtR4.jpg

birch,

Briefly noone gives a fuck what happened to those kids or what might be happening to some now.
Like Muslims encourage marriage at very early age.

What makes me sick is they actually don't recognise or take the term pedophilia as dangerous seperated problem by itself.
It's mentioned with prostitution, pornography in general and something getting more acceptable with democracy and free speech?! This is fucking nuts.

"The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times," Benedict said.
CBS
It was FAR worse in PAST times. As little as a few hundred years ago it was entirely possible to BUY human beings including children at the local market.

Jean Jacques Rousseau talks about doing just that in this writings.

It was FAR worse in PAST times. As little as a few hundred years ago it was entirely possible to BUY human beings including children at the local market.

Jean Jacques Rousseau talks about doing just that in this writings.

Indeed it was.

How many times have you seen the movie "Stigmata"?

Does the movie's release coincide with your unfortunate experience leading you to Jesus, or did it all happen later?

i've never seen it. what the hell are you talking about?

Let it out girl, but don't go beyond yourself with concepts, you confuse yourself, it looks embarrassing.

It's perfectly clear what's meant in my post. Interestingly you're intelligent enough to understand it, but not good at acting stupid.

I am not talking about my fucking morals either, it's private.

It's not any irrelevant than your answer to birch's post. Actually, mine is better related to yours,his and the topic.

you were talking about morals, and having a tantrum like some child.

listen, if you don't know the difference between the relationship between a husband and wife and the relationship between a john and a prostitute, then you're one of two things. either you're a liar, or you're pathetic. pick one.

communion is a holistic, honest, and committed relationship, founded in love.

i've never seen it. what the hell are you talking about?

It's a movie. ETA: Advertising your sickness of "everyone and everywhere is the church".

you were talking about morals, and having a tantrum like some child.

listen, if you don't know the difference between the relationship between a husband and wife and the relationship between a john and a prostitute, then you're one of two things. either you're a liar, or you're pathetic. pick one.

communion is a holistic, honest, and committed relationship, founded in love.

Stop insulting.

You're the one trying to sell your own morals as the high and the only one.

Noone is talking about "love". I am talking about a situation. Get real and stop dreaming about a control that cannot be managed.

The only mistake I am doing is, taking someone like you seriously enough to answer her posts.

Stop insulting.

You're the one trying to sell your own morals as the high and the only one.

Noone is talking about "love". I am talking about a situation. Get real and stop dreaming about a control that cannot be managed.

The only mistake I am doing is, taking someone like you seriously enough to answer her posts.

well, love just happens to be the answer, so perhaps someone should be talking about it. morals are quite obviously not the answer. morals are just egotistical bullshit, and i'm not selling that, the vatican is though. i'm not selling shit. what i stand for can't be bought or sold.

It's a movie. ETA: Advertising your sickness of "everyone and everywhere is the church".

not everyone and everywhere. you really should stick to what you know and perhaps think about not referring to movies as your source.

christians are wolves in sheeps clothing.
all of them?

all of them. even the ones on here who pretend otherwise.
hey i am as messed up as you are.


they may not even realize it but they are perpetuating a religion because it all is based on the bible
this assumes all christians belief is based on the bible..(i will accept that the majority are)


which will continually uphold and strengthen religion.
this is true..

all fundamental religions need to have less power.
this also is true..

@Lori
I also am the Church..

not everyone and everywhere. you really should stick to what you know and perhaps think about not referring to movies as your source.

This is one of the major problems. Every one of the believers -not just as Jews, Christian,Muslims; but as individuals in one group against each other- claims they know the real thing.

And that's a thing can be seen by anyone with a little sense.

Movies are great tools for brainwashing. What you said in your post reminded me the movie, I didn't offer it as a source.
That movie was taken very seriously generally by Christians, sole Jesus followers and negatively as Vatican. As a "message", it briefly says what you have been saying about your faith all along.

And you are one person, the movie was watched by millions. At this point I don't know what to think of your ego by the claim "not everyone and everywhere". Why are you right and they're wrong? You're defending the same thing.

In his traditional Christmas address yesterday to cardinals and officials working in Rome, Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.

He's right. There is a NAMBLA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association) after all. And didn't the Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity ) put forth a political party based only on pedophilia?

he's right. There is a nambla after all. And didn't the dutch put forth a political party based only on pedophilia?

Huh?

Why the quote option cancels the capital letters?

There was a time -before the eighteenth century - when children were not considered distinct from adults. At some point during the Industrial revolution, childhood was given some sort of hallowed status which brought in the concept of consent, minors, age of reason, age for voting, age for marriage [all of which are highly localised and based on local attitudes towards what constitutes the divide between childhood and adulthood]

Now we live in an age where children are a separate species and gender.But its a fairly recent phenomenon and not entirely embraced everywhere [social workers in India, for example, are apt to come up against violent opposition when they try to prevent child marriages].

But the trend now is towards childlike prepubescent images of women and waxed slender representations of men.

well, love just happens to be the answer, so perhaps someone should be talking about it. morals are quite obviously not the answer. morals are just egotistical bullshit, and i'm not selling that, the vatican is though. i'm not selling shit. what i stand for can't be bought or sold.

Lori, you just wrote in your previous post, how a relationship MUST be according to your belief. And called me "a liar and a pathetic" if I can't see that.
How are you not selling your own morals?

There was a time -before the eighteenth century - when children were not considered distinct from adults. At some point during the Industrial revolution, childhood was given some sort of hallowed status which brought in the concept of consent, minors, age of reason, age for voting, age for marriage [all of which are highly localised and based on local attitudes towards what constitutes the divide between childhood and adulthood]

Now we live in an age where children are a separate species and gender.But its a fairly recent phenomenon and not entirely embraced everywhere [social workers in India, for example, are apt to come up against violent opposition when they try to prevent child marriages].

But the trend now is towards childlike prepubescent images of women and waxed slender representations of men.

I knew there were a strong tendency to expect a child to grow up very quickly in the past. But I didn't know it this detailed. It explains a lot.
From some Disney movies to the topic we're talking about.

I knew there were a strong tendency to expect a child to grow up very quickly in the past. But I didn't know it this detailed. It explains a lot.
From some Disney movies to the topic we're talking about.

Maybe its a control issue. The trend for "attractive" today is almost the same as "without secondary sexual characteristics". Hence you have women with slim, almost emaciated bodies, small breasts, waxed pubic hair - you have men without five o'clock shadows, the metrosexual with a manicure, a slim build, a waxed chest.

Its weird, but people who are more like children than adults are the standard for attractiveness in society. In some stores you cannot even shop above a certain size. I think it portends an acceptance of child pornography. You don't have to be 14 just look 14. Just look at the ads for American Apparel.

http://www.momlogic.com/images/american-ap.jpg

@Lori
I also am the Church..

YES. few and far between, but every once in a while, somebody gets it! :)

you just keep on keepin' on brother...

This is one of the major problems. Every one of the believers -not just as Jews, Christian,Muslims; but as individuals in one group against each other- claims they know the real thing.

And that's a thing can be seen by anyone with a little sense.

Movies are great tools for brainwashing. What you said in your post reminded me the movie, I didn't offer it as a source.
That movie was taken very seriously generally by Christians, sole Jesus followers and negatively as Vatican. As a "message", it briefly says what you have been saying about your faith all along.

And you are one person, the movie was watched by millions. At this point I don't know what to think of your ego by the claim "not everyone and everywhere". Why are you right and they're wrong? You're defending the same thing.

imo it's not about arguing with other people about what's right and what's wrong, but about trusting your own experience, and allowing that to affect you and your perceptions, thoughts, and behavior, and your destiny. i said, "not everyone and everywhere" because not everyone is open to certain experience, and even if they were, don't trust their own experience. atheists attest to that here all the time. i discuss and argue the rightness or wrongness of different things out here simply because it's a discussion forum, but from a practical standpoint, i don't make my beliefs some kind of political agenda, or use them as an excuse to hate people or to judge them. my beliefs actually encourage me to love people. i think someone would be hard-pressed to say that's wrong. though obviously, according to many people's behavior, they do think that's wrong. a lot of those people are religious.

i am the church.

You are the asylum.

Lori, you just wrote in your previous post, how a relationship MUST be according to your belief. And called me "a liar and a pathetic" if I can't see that.
How are you not selling your own morals?

first i'd like to address morals. i have an aversion to the idea of morality because of my experience, which encourages me to love people. wouldn't you agree that some people's morality discourages love? morality is just a bunch of rules people conjure up, in an attempt to convince themselves and others, that they are good people. it's ego-based, and generally doesn't have anything to do with love. it separates people more than anything. it oppresses people, isolates people. people go to war over it!

secondly, relationships mustn't be and aren't according to my beliefs, even my own! in an idealistic sense, humanity and society would be very different than it is today, if i had my way. but someone has to believe, or else it will never be manifest. i believe that there is a way for people to love each other completely all the time, and always act in accordance with the greater good. it's communion.

in the bible, restoring communion is the purpose of christ, and is a oneness with god that brings us all together. the relationship is entirely and completely holistic and honest and committed, and based in love and trust that is real. the bible also refers to this relationship as a marriage, in which THE church, is the bride. it says marriage is when two people become one in the flesh, and that is accomplished in christ. that's why the ritual involves eating his flesh and drinking his blood. what disturbs me, is that a lot of people confuse the ritual for the relationship that it is supposed to represent. in a broader sense, you could say that religion in general, is used by a lot of people, to take the place of having a real relationship with god.

so certainly you can see how in the bible, referring to religion as a "whore" would be appropriate, in contrast to the communal relationship with god and each other. this isn't about whether you or i think prostitution is right or wrong, it's about the difference between this communal relationship (which i described earlier), and the relationship that is sought and achieved with a prostitute. with a prostitute, it's a superficial business transaction in lieu of, or even in avoidance of, communion. if you said you didn't see the difference between these two relationships, then i said you were either a liar or pathetic. do you understand what i mean by that now? i don't think that an in depth discussion of prostitution is appropriate in this thread but i think this song sums up very well, how i feel about prostitution and religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVNm4qztPXc

edit: btw, this video is a great example of what i'm referring to in regards to morality. the last line of that song is actually, "fuck you! it's for you!" but because of someone's morality, the lyric was edited out of the video, because some people think the word "fuck" is a bad word, that only bad people use or want to hear. that's oppression, not love.

You are the asylum.

i think you've made it clear that's what it would mean for you dear. ;)

see now, phlogistician is one of those people who are not open to certain experience, and does not trust his own experience, and has made it pretty clear that if he were to experience some of what i have, instead of finding meaning in it, he would most likely commit himself to an asylum and be doused with mind-numbing drugs, in an effort to escape from it. isn't that right phlog?

this is a song by one of my favorite bands, that reminds me of communion, and the kingdom of christ, and THE church vs a church...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h91uhTXu0Vw

"the way" he is singing about is obviously not indoctrination.

i wouldn't put the weight of the world on the pope's shoulders. lol...i'll keep it for myself. when it's supposed to be about personal experience and accountability, indoctrination is just passing the buck.

here's an awesome song about religion and prostitution from one of my all time favorite records just for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmFeBejYEIQ

The Pope doesn't think in soundbites.
He's not some shabby newspaper hack producing headlines to sell tomorrow's chip paper.
He is definitely not saying that pedophilia is normal and therefore OK.
That is a calumny on the man's name. It's a bare faced lie.

Let me tell you the Catholic church's view on pornography.
It sees all pornography as gravely sinful. All pornography.
It sees it as degrading to the person viewing it, and the person, the object, being viewed.
It has always said that, and it always will.

All types of pornography are becoming normalised. No question about it.
The kind of stuff that you would need to venture into the the most dark-lit back street to obtain, is now available on a bright coloured screen in your own home, just like the screen you are looking at now.

I can see a future where young people are so exposed to extreme and degrading forms of sex, that they are made impotent by it.

I'm going to leave this thread now, and not come back for a while.
I am so hopping mad that I might give the person replying to me more trouble than they deserve.

He is definitely not saying that pedophilia is normal and therefore OK.

i can understand the pope being taken out of context..most atheist are good at that..
there is also the defintion of 'normal' some define it as a moral measure, others use it in the context of majority, in science it becomes the majority..
religico's use it as a moral measure,pry because there is a standard of behaviour in a church and normal is the majority in there..


All types of pornography are becoming normalised. No question about it.
The kind of stuff that you would need to venture into the the most dark-lit back street to obtain, is now available on a bright coloured screen in your own home, just like the screen you are looking at now.
there becomes a point where there is too much of that..


I'm going to leave this thread now, and not come back for a while.
I am so hopping mad that I might give the person replying to me more trouble than they deserve.
:poke:

It doesn't sound like the pope was justifying paedophilia. Maybe I misunderstood the linked article, but it did sound more like something was taken out of context and blown out of proportion, or purposefully misinterpreted.

You are the asylum.

you know that means sanctuary don't you? that's ok with me. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I8mWG6HlmU

first i'd like to address morals. i have an aversion to the idea of morality because of my experience, which encourages me to love people. wouldn't you agree that some people's morality discourages love? morality is just a bunch of rules people conjure up, in an attempt to convince themselves and others, that they are good people. it's ego-based, and generally doesn't have anything to do with love. it separates people more than anything. it oppresses people, isolates people. people go to war over it!

secondly, relationships mustn't be and aren't according to my beliefs, even my own! in an idealistic sense, humanity and society would be very different than it is today, if i had my way. but someone has to believe, or else it will never be manifest. i believe that there is a way for people to love each other completely all the time, and always act in accordance with the greater good. it's communion.

in the bible, restoring communion is the purpose of christ, and is a oneness with god that brings us all together. the relationship is entirely and completely holistic and honest and committed, and based in love and trust that is real. the bible also refers to this relationship as a marriage, in which THE church, is the bride. it says marriage is when two people become one in the flesh, and that is accomplished in christ. that's why the ritual involves eating his flesh and drinking his blood. what disturbs me, is that a lot of people confuse the ritual for the relationship that it is supposed to represent. in a broader sense, you could say that religion in general, is used by a lot of people, to take the place of having a real relationship with god.

so certainly you can see how in the bible, referring to religion as a "whore" would be appropriate, in contrast to the communal relationship with god and each other. this isn't about whether you or i think prostitution is right or wrong, it's about the difference between this communal relationship (which i described earlier), and the relationship that is sought and achieved with a prostitute. with a prostitute, it's a superficial business transaction in lieu of, or even in avoidance of, communion. if you said you didn't see the difference between these two relationships, then i said you were either a liar or pathetic. do you understand what i mean by that now? i don't think that an in depth discussion of prostitution is appropriate in this thread but i think this song sums up very well, how i feel about prostitution and religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVNm4qztPXc

edit: btw, this video is a great example of what i'm referring to in regards to morality. the last line of that song is actually, "fuck you! it's for you!" but because of someone's morality, the lyric was edited out of the video, because some people think the word "fuck" is a bad word, that only bad people use or want to hear. that's oppression, not love.

Lori, we speak completely different languages and see the world in a completely different way. There is no need to babble on it, as there is no way we could agree.

Let me tell you the Catholic church's view on pornography.
It sees all pornography as gravely sinful. All pornography.
It sees it as degrading to the person viewing it, and the person, the object, being viewed.
It has always said that, and it always will.

All types of pornography are becoming normalised. No question about it.
The kind of stuff that you would need to venture into the the most dark-lit back street to obtain, is now available on a bright coloured screen in your own home, just like the screen you are looking at now.


This is exactly the core of the problem.

He SHOULD HAVE treated crimes against children seperately.
He SHOULD HAVE stood tall and made a strong appearance on this issue.

By treating it as just a part of common pornography, he is helping the issue to be seen as something trivial when it's not.
This men is accepted as the divine leader by almost 2 billion people. They're taking his word as the law at times.

And what do you expect victims to think about it? "Oh, this is the world today, because the Pope says it is, so nevermind that I got raped."?!

There is a very clear ground that must be taken here. We need to protect children first. Period.

And you hopping mad doesn't change anything a bit. Your self-rightousness and hypocrisy is disgusting.

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html#ixzz19Wmdzyir

I am curious what Christians think.


Normalising homosexuality was objected to, back in the day, to no avail.
Once you open the door there will be no stopping the protests of what
is regarded as abnormal sex practices.
It will eventually become a matter of media debate in which all the dissenters
will be diagnosed with some kind of mental illness.

jan.

Lori, we speak completely different languages and see the world in a completely different way. There is no need to babble on it, as there is no way we could agree.

neither of us are using translation software, this is a discussion forum, we're both human beings, and we live in the same world. don't you like my muses?

This men is accepted as the divine leader by almost 2 billion people. They're taking his word as the law at times.




this is true, and it's entirely incorrect for reasons i've already stated. don't you see, that your position actually supports and validates this atrocity? and not the atrocity of child abuse, but the atrocity that this man is accepted in this way by multitudes.

fuck the pope.

and if anyone needs the pope to tell them whether it's ok to molest a child or not,

then fuck them too.

Normalising homosexuality was objected to, back in the day, to no avail.
Once you open the door there will be no stopping the protests of what
is regarded as abnormal sex practices.
It will eventually become a matter of media debate in which all the dissenters
will be diagnosed with some kind of mental illness.

jan.

Did you just compare consentual sex between adults with child rape?

Or are you too unable to understand the difference?

neither of us are using translation software, this is a discussion forum, we're both human beings, and we live in the same world. don't you like my muses?

No it's not that Lori, you mostly really lose me. I've never had faith, you know how I am with religions. I try to keep up and say something but most of the time I think you're a moron. You probably think the same for me. So I will get in where I can. I am trying.

No it's not that Lori, you mostly really lose me. I've never had faith, you know how I am with religions. I try to keep up and say something but most of the time I think you're a moron. You probably think the same for me. So I will get in where I can. I am trying.

i don't think you're a moron.

and i think my last post was pretty straight forward. i'm a christian, and that's what i think. :shrug:

thank you for trying. :)

this is scripture containing some of what jesus had to say about religious people...

Matthew 23

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Did you just compare consentual sex between adults with child rape?
Or are you too unable to understand the difference?


First of all, who is talking about rape?
Do you think all sex commited by adult males with children, rape?

But you're right, the general public protest against homosexual activity (back in the day) was the same as the child sex protests you display. Both were/are rife within the catholic priesthood. There is no comparison.

jan.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTV1_DIKEsGjxIEwIgpjHo6_cfV-N0jNJAhEafZ4DAHpWPDZq1gaw
"No. Lori does Tuesdays"

First of all, who is talking about rape?
Do you think all sex commited by adult males with children, rape?
jan.

???????

This is getting -actually you're- more retarded by the post.

???????

This is getting -actually you're- more retarded by the post.

Why don't you answer the questions?
Here is a definition of rape. (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?lextype=3&search=rape)


jan.

Illegality of sex with a minor does not depend upon consent.
It is statutory rape.

statutory rape law definition

Sexual intercourse with an individual who is a minor or under the age of consent (today, usually 18), by an adult. Neither consent of the minor, nor ignorance of the minor’s age, can be used as a defense.

Illegality of sex with a minor does not depend upon consent.
It is statutory rape.

statutory rape law definition

Sexual intercourse with an individual who is a minor or under the age of consent (today, usually 18), by an adult. Neither consent of the minor, nor ignorance of the minor’s age, can be used as a defense.



But it's not RAPE as we underdstand it.
Obviously sex with minors is against the law, but if the law was relaxed then it would no longer be considered statutory rape.


Sodomy was also against the law until recently (historically), but was still practised in the catholic establishment.

My point is, just as sodomy laws were quashed, so statutory rape can be as well.


jan.

And you think fundamentally there is nothing wrong with Pope's statement?

I think the Pope was just stating what he thinks is happening in the world. He obviously does not endorse or condone it.

"...In modern thinking, the word "conscience" signifies that for moral and religious questions, it is the subjective dimension, the individual, that constitutes the final authority for decision. The world is divided into the realms of the objective and the subjective. To the objective realm belong things that can be calculated and verified by experiment. Religion and morals fall outside the scope of these methods and are therefore considered to lie within the subjective realm. Here, it is said, there are in the final analysis no objective criteria. The ultimate instance that can decide here is therefore the subject alone, and precisely this is what the word "conscience" expresses: in this realm only the individual, with his intuitions and experiences, can decide. ..."

No, there is a very objective criteria. Children have to be protected from any kind of harm. No god, realm, individual or subjective opinion or a twisted logic have a right to blurr this. It's simple.

And if your religion and "morals" falls outside of this "objective realm", it's simply supporting what's happening.

Why do people take things out of context to make their point? If you follow the link and read the entire article it is easy to see that the Pope is not condoning or endorsing this way of thinking. He is merely stating how modern civilization defines "conscience" .

I think the Pope, while saying what he has to say to appease the public, appears to be trying to lay some of the blame on society. That's like blaming disco for your cocaine problem. He refuses to consider that there may be something about the nature of the Church organization or the nature of their relationship with churchgoers that encourages abuse of power in this most horrendous way. I refer to their long standing doctrines of sexual repression, the fact that priests can't marry, that homosexuals and homosexuality are condemned. It's not a sexually free society that leads a grown man to abuse a child sexually, it could very well be a repressed (chaste, pure, above material pleasures, use whatever euphemism you want) subculture that caused it.

I think the Pope, while saying what he has to say to appease the public, appears to be trying to lay some of the blame on society. That's like blaming disco for your cocaine problem. He refuses to consider that there may be something about the nature of the Church organization or the nature of their relationship with churchgoers that encourages abuse of power in this most horrendous way. I refer to their long standing doctrines of sexual repression, the fact that priests can't marry, that homosexuals and homosexuality are condemned. It's not a sexually free society that leads a grown man to abuse a child sexually, it could very well be a repressed (chaste, pure, above material pleasures, use whatever euphemism you want) subculture that caused it.

I don't think the Pope is blaming society, he is just stating how he sees the current society.

As far as I know catholic doctrine does not condem homosexuals, it condems homosexual acts.

There are bad priests that have abused their power and molested children, yes. Is it still happening?, probably yes. Should it stop now?, yes. Does catholic doctrine condem this behavior?, yes.

Should people condem the catholic church because some of its members do not follow their own doctrine? no.

spidergoat,



I think the Pope, while saying what he has to say to appease the public, appears to be trying to lay some of the blame on society. That's like blaming disco for your cocaine problem.


That's a silly comparison, but i'm sure you realise that.

The Pope does have a point as alot of the priests were found to have personality, and behavioural problems. Also substance abuse is a high factor, not to mention being the victims of child sex abuse themselves, mostly by adult males. All this is previous to becoming priests.



I refer to their long standing doctrines of sexual repression, the fact that priests can't marry, that homosexuals and homosexuality are condemned.

Celebacy, or even, sexual repression is not a pre-requisite for the illeagal act of child sex abuse.
Apart from that, they can give in to their urges without having to break the law.



It's not a sexually free society that leads a grown man to abuse a child sexually,

You're kidding right?

jan.

I think the Pope, while saying what he has to say to appease the public, appears to be trying to lay some of the blame on society. That's like blaming disco for your cocaine problem. He refuses to consider that there may be something about the nature of the Church organization or the nature of their relationship with churchgoers that encourages abuse of power in this most horrendous way. I refer to their long standing doctrines of sexual repression, the fact that priests can't marry, that homosexuals and homosexuality are condemned. It's not a sexually free society that leads a grown man to abuse a child sexually, it could very well be a repressed (chaste, pure, above material pleasures, use whatever euphemism you want) subculture that caused it.

Wise words spidergoat.

Yes, the Catholic church is in denial about deep problems within. That showed itself clearly in the choice of the current Pope. They needed root and branch reform, and they chose the Status Quo.
This man is unworldly, and I'm afraid that carries with it the drawback of not understanding what is going on. He has made repeated blunders.

It's interesting to see how an organisation can behave very much like an individual who has done something wrong.
They try to find the blame outside themselves. They ignore the problem. They convince themselves it is less bad than it seems. etc

@Jan
A very young child cannot give consent, because they do not understand the nature of the act.
Yes, what is underage sex, and therefore statutory rape, can be a matter of local law. It can vary currently from 14? years upwards.
I don't know the laws, but I would guess that at the lower age, countries that allow it specify that it must be within marriage.
But pedophilia, with young children, is always rape, I hope you agree.

There's something seriously wrong with your understanding of rape, sexual relationship, adult, minor.

Anything passing between consentual adults is incomperable with anything between an adult and a child.

You too see homosexuality or some other sexual tendencies between consentual adults as "sin". This approach is ridiculous and pathetic. And holding this as an excuse...

If a leader of a dominating religion is not able to see the difference and blame the world culture by addressing "the democracy" and "free speech" and make a logic of it by the religion's perspective there is something seriously wrong how that religion percieve human being today. And it means it's not even functional in itself.

Mistaking a sexually free society with sexual perversion of the minors of that society, who needs immediate care to survive is out right disturbing.

That's what happens when religion have power. Your devine "morals" and "logic" have so disoriented your perception, you almost sound like "of course it's hapenning, because people have sex with other people all the time."

And thinking that you're breeding and raising children...

But other than that, thanks to Christians and theists who honestly said "This is wrong".

The Pope does have a point as alot of the priests were found to have personality, and behavioural problems. Also substance abuse is a high factor, not to mention being the victims of child sex abuse themselves, mostly by adult males. All this is previous to becoming priests.

Impossible, these are men of god and are well above such things. They have been chosen amongst all men to have this honor bestowed upon them, therefore whatever they do is sanctioned by god.

ejderha,



There's something seriously wrong with your understanding of rape, sexual relationship, adult, minor.


Why?


Anything passing between consentual adults is incomperable with anything between an adult and a child.


You forgot to add consentual, as in between consentual adult and child.

But, it depends on the particular circumstances as to whether the act is incomparable.
What IS different though, is the leagality.



You too see homosexuality or some other sexual tendencies between consentual adults as "sin". This approach is ridiculous and pathetic. And holding this as an excuse...


It's best you don't try and analyse my personal position on this, as it only creates complication, and we end up going off on tangents.



If a leader of a dominating religion is not able to see the difference and blame the world culture by addressing "the democracy" and "free speech" and make a logic of it by the religion's perspective there is something seriously wrong how that religion percieve human being today. And it means it's not even functional in itself.


Have you even looked at studies regarding this type of behaviour in general?


Mistaking a sexually free society with sexual perversion of the minors of that society, who needs immediate care to survive is out right disturbing.


:confused:


That's what happens when religion have power. Your devine "morals" and "logic" have so disoriented your perception, you almost sound like "of course it's hapenning, because people have sex with other people all the time."


Why don't you answer the questions I asked, we don't have to get off on the wrong foot.


And thinking that you're breeding and raising children...


Look how you have let this get out of hand.


But other than that, thanks to Christians and theists who honestly said "This is wrong".


Why are you thanking people for saying 'this is wrong'?
And why do you insinuate that I condone this behaviour?

jan.

Impossible, these are men of god and are well above such things. They have been chosen amongst all men to have this honor bestowed upon them, therefore whatever they do is sanctioned by god.

That's what you'd like to be real, which is why you believe it.
But it's not the case.

jan.

Impossible, these are men of god and are well above such things. They have been chosen amongst all men to have this honor bestowed upon them, therefore whatever they do is sanctioned by god.
That's what you'd like to be real, which is why you believe it.
But it's not the case.

!!

If you look at the testimonies of some victims (and also some third parties who are simply bewildered that such things can happen in church), their dilemma is basically about this:
One the one hand, they feel obligated to believe that the people who abused them were indeed men of God; on the other hand, they do have some sense of what was done to them was wrong. But they seem to be unable to resolve this dilemma.

(A similar dilemma can be experienced when a parent beats their child in the name of God, or when congregational members physically or psychologically gang up on another member.)

For such a victim to seriously consider that what these people have done were _not_ examples of proper theistic conduct can sometimes be simply too much, they are unable to do that.

I have watched interviews with some victims, grown men in their fifties, and they seemed stumped, paralyzed by the dilemma, unable to take any step further.
Some have become atheists, not wanting to have anything to do with God or religion.
The answers the church gave also didn't seem to help resolve it.
I myself feel paralyzed by this dilemma as well; having experienced some abuse in the name of God / by people of God.

Given your reply to Q, you seem to have a clear idea of right and wrong in such cases, could you work it our for us as well, here?

What do you think is going on in a person when they get stuck in this dilemma? Why can't they move past it?
Why do they hold on to a stance like "Impossible, these are men of god and are well above such things. They have been chosen amongst all men to have this honor bestowed upon them, therefore whatever they do is sanctioned by god." -?
Why am I willing to believe that a theist is free to kill, rape and pillage with impunity?

How or where child pronography is being considered normal? Most of the world fighting with it very fiercely.

Perhaps fighting it very fiercely "officially".

Have you ever seen child pornography and witnessed child abuse - and have done nothing about it? If you haven't, you have contributed to the idea that child pornography and child abuse are something normal.


Once at the local grocery store, I saw a man in his sixties inappropriately touching a girl of perhaps five years of age. I am sure I was not the only one who saw it. The girl seemed confused. But nobody did anything then.
It is such passivity of the general population that makes child pornography and child abuse make seem normal.

Wise words spidergoat.

Yes, the Catholic church is in denial about deep problems within. That showed itself clearly in the choice of the current Pope. They needed root and branch reform, and they chose the Status Quo.
This man is unworldly, and I'm afraid that carries with it the drawback of not understanding what is going on. He has made repeated blunders.

It's interesting to see how an organisation can behave very much like an individual who has done something wrong.
They try to find the blame outside themselves. They ignore the problem. They convince themselves it is less bad than it seems. etc

You seem to come from the position that the Catholic Church should live up to the standards given by secular society, and should be judged by those standards.
If yes, could you explain why you think so?

Hi Signal,

Happy New Year. :)


Given your reply to Q, you seem to have a clear idea of right and wrong in such cases, could you work it our for us as well, here?

First, why do you think these acts are 'sanctioned by God'.
Do the victims know this to be the case, or, do they believe this to be the case?

Either way give reason.

Alot of the priests who commited these acts were mentally damaged from their own childhood experiences. This is a plausible reason for their acts, as it is consistent with this behaviour in or out of the church.

jan.

It's interesting to see how an organisation can behave very much like an individual who has done something wrong.
They try to find the blame outside themselves. They ignore the problem. They convince themselves it is less bad than it seems. etc

I don't think they are doing that at all.

They believe that man is by nature sinful, and that it is for the most part futile to demand perfection from people in this world.
They accept that sin is part of life on earth, and that this is just how it is. They do not condone sin, they just accept it as a given - and as such, have some more equanimity about it in comparison to people who don't. They have some equanimity about sin, but they do not condone sin.

The problems of aging, illness and death are overwhelming for secular society, and there is a characteristic mystification of them and avoidance of talking about them.
Many religions, however, focus precisely on the problems of aging, illness and death, make people face them, and offer solutions.

I didn't see any 'justification for pedophilia' in the quotes in the article in the OP. :confused:

Peace be unto you ;)

Hi Signal,

Happy New Year. :)

Wishing you a happy new year too. :)
The computer is back and functioning?



First, why do you think these acts are 'sanctioned by God'.
Do the victims know this to be the case, or, do they believe this to be the case?

Either way give reason.

Good question.
I suppose victims merely believe this to be the case.
Because to know that those acts of abuse are 'sanctioned by God' would require a knowledge base that I am sure would be so big that it would easily and meaningfully contextualize the abuse, lead the victim to understand it, and feel equanimous about it.

There is definitely someting exceptionally sinister about abuse in the name of God or when the perpetrators are people of God, as this will lead the victim to doubt everything about existence and its source.
"Ordinary abuse" does not have the profound philosophical implications that abuse in the name of God has or when the perpetrators are people of God.


But why do victims hold on to the belief that those acts of abuse are 'sanctioned by God'?



Alot of the priests who commited these acts were mentally damaged from their own childhood experiences. This is a plausible reason for their acts, as it is consistent with this behaviour in or out of the church.

The definition of what goes for "mentally damaged" can be relativized too, no?

Signal,


Wishing you a happy new year too. :)

Thank you.


The computer is back and functioning?


Yes, hopefully it will last up untill I can afford a new one.



I suppose victims merely believe this to be the case.
Because to know that those acts of abuse are 'sanctioned by God' would require a knowledge base that I am sure would be so big that it would easily and meaningfully contextualize the abuse, lead the victim to understand it, and feel equanimous about it.

Good point.



There is definitely someting exceptionally sinister about abuse in the name of God or when the perpetrators are people of God, as this will lead the victim to doubt everything about existence and its source.

Quite right.
This makes the ideal situation to create atheists, should that be a goal. ;)



"Ordinary abuse" does not have the profound philosophical implications that abuse in the name of God has or when the perpetrators are people of God.

Or so we believe.


But why do victims hold on to the belief that those acts of abuse are 'sanctioned by God'?


The same reason why muslim/islam/terrorist are linked in the psyche.



The definition of what goes for "mentally damaged" can be relativized too, no?

We can pick and choose what can be relavatized.

jan.

This makes the ideal situation to create atheists, should that be a goal.

That could indeed be the case sometimes!

The argument could be made that someone who truly believes in God would not abuse people, much less in the name of God; and that therefore someone who abuses people does not actually believe in God; and moreover, someone who does not believe in God tries to make others not believe in God either.


For example: My father has been an atheist his whole adult life. His parents were staunch Catholics. They beat him, in the name of God. My grandfather was trying very hard for my father (then a boy) to become a priest, for it was very good for a family to produce a priest, it brought high social status. So they had sessions where they went through Latin liturgy etc.; my father had to kneel on the cold stone floor of the church while his father made him repeat those texts and yelled at him and beat him (in the church). (My father told me how he came to hate the church, God and religion.)

Why would a father do that to his son?




But why do victims hold on to the belief that those acts of abuse are 'sanctioned by God'?

The same reason why muslim/islam/terrorist are linked in the psyche.


I don't understand?

Do you suggest that victims of abuse in the name of God are potential terorrists?

However, it is characteristic that not all victims of such abuse get stuck; many people who have been abused move on with their lives, and many don't give up on their religion.
So this suggests that it is not the abuse that is the problem, but the victim's response to it.
This is not to say that it is allright to abuse anyone, just that it is not a given that abuse will cause permanent scars.




"Ordinary abuse" does not have the profound philosophical implications that abuse in the name of God has or when the perpetrators are people of God.

Or so we believe.

Why do you think we believe that?


Why am I willing to believe that a theist is free to kill, rape and pillage with impunity?

Signal,


The argument could be made that someone who truly believes in God would not abuse people, much less in the name of God; and that therefore someone who abuses people does not actually believe in God; and moreover, someone who does not believe in God tries to make others not believe in God either.


I don't think it is as simple as that.



For example: My father has been an atheist his whole adult life. His parents were staunch Catholics. They beat him, in the name of God. My grandfather was trying very hard for my father (then a boy) to become a priest, for it was very good for a family to produce a priest, it brought high social status. So they had sessions where they went through Latin liturgy etc.; my father had to kneel on the cold stone floor of the church while his father made him repeat those texts and yelled at him and beat him (in the church). (My father told me how he came to hate the church, God and religion.)

Why would a father do that to his son?


I don't know.
Would this make any difference if his parents weren't staunch catholics, but staunch academics, or, communists?



I don't understand?

Do you suggest that victims of abuse in the name of God are potential terorrists?


The idea has been implanted into our minds, so when we hear the word terrorist, suicide bombs, fanatic, and so on, it automatically triggers muslim/islam.



Why do you think we believe that?

You tell me, you stated it.

jan.

The argument could be made that someone who truly believes in God would not abuse people, much less in the name of God; and that therefore someone who abuses people does not actually believe in God; and moreover, someone who does not believe in God tries to make others not believe in God either.

I don't think it is as simple as that.

Could you say a bit more?

If I think of the example of my grandfather and father, I would say it is indeed more complicated. As far as I personally knew my grandfather, he seemed to be possessed of mixed desires. In some ways, he was definitely very pious, in others, he was not. Perhaps he himself was unable to decide which desires to act on. Nor is my father a through-and-through atheist; if anything, he seems mostly just defensive and scared about theism and would rather not talk about these things.



I don't know.
Would this make any difference if his parents weren't staunch catholics, but staunch academics, or, communists?

Staunch academics or communists generally do not try to get their sons to become Catholic priests to begin with ...



The idea has been implanted into our minds, so when we hear the word terrorist, suicide bombs, fanatic, and so on, it automatically triggers muslim/islam.

Do you mean that similarly, the idea has been implanted into our minds that people of God can do no wrong and that therefore when we hear that a child is abused by a priest, we conclude that this is not wrong ?





"Ordinary abuse" does not have the profound philosophical implications that abuse in the name of God has or when the perpetrators are people of God.

Why do you think we believe that?

You tell me, you stated it.

Several posters in this thread seem to think so too; there seems to be an intuitive understanding that it is reasonable to expect that people of God cannot and should not do any wrong.

You seem to be suggesting that one ought to accept that even people of God or people who claim to act in God's name can do wrong, and should be considered as having done wrong (as opposed to writing off their behavior as "divine lesson for the victim" or "you should turn the other cheek" or some such).

Many of us have come to believe that the authority of anyone who claims to act in God's name or know God must not be questioned.
You, on the other hand, seem to suggest that this be not so.
If this is so, can you explain on the grounds of what you think so?

Impossible, these are men of god and are well above such things. They have been chosen amongst all men to have this honor bestowed upon them, therefore whatever they do is sanctioned by god.

did you choose them?

Several posters in this thread seem to think so too; there seems to be an intuitive understanding that it is reasonable to expect that people of God cannot and should not do any wrong.
not me..i believe the ppl who believe in god are just as human as those who do not..(i'm a believer,and i know i am messed up..)
i believe there are those who are in the spiritual leader role, who are pressured to be perfect by those he is leading..how much does this contribute to the problems?
keep in mind whenever an atheist points to a believers imperfection, it offends them ,why?
why is it so important to not show our imperfections?


Many of us have come to believe that the authority of anyone who claims to act in God's name or know God must not be questioned.


this is your grandpa's thinking..
their age said don't question..
our age is to question..

Many of us have come to believe that the authority of anyone who claims to act in God's name or know God must not be questioned.

I am surprised by this comment... Do you know how you came to believe this?

I am surprised by this comment... Do you know how you came to believe this?

Good question; I am not sure. And it is quite important to me, actually.

Perhaps it is simply because of the abuse I was subject to by theists; force can make people believe all kinds of things.

But perhaps there is a different source for this belief. For example a combination of appropriate fear of God and naivete.

not me..i believe the ppl who believe in god are just as human as those who do not..

Somehow, I don't have this belief.



i believe there are those who are in the spiritual leader role, who are pressured to be perfect by those he is leading..how much does this contribute to the problems?

Well, it is reasonable to expect that those who have obtained leadership positions would also be spiritually advanced, is it not?



keep in mind whenever an atheist points to a believers imperfection, it offends them ,why?

I'm not sure this is _always_ the case.



why is it so important to not show our imperfections?

Because we are trying to get more than we are qualified for?



this is your grandpa's thinking..
their age said don't question..
our age is to question..

What point is questioning if it doesn't really get you anywhere?

i believe there are those who are in the spiritual leader role, who are pressured to be perfect by those he is leading..how much does this contribute to the problems?
Well, it is reasonable to expect that those who have obtained leadership positions would also be spiritually advanced, is it not?
i would agree with that, they should have more experience in such matters,but i don't think it is reasonable to take what they say and make it law..IOW utilize what they say to help you 'think for yourself' not 'do as your told'..
what is right SHOULD tend to itself..




keep in mind whenever an atheist points to a believers imperfection, it offends them ,why?
I'm not sure this is _always_ the case.
yea..i should have said 'many atheist'..



why is it so important to not show our imperfections?
Because we are trying to get more than we are qualified for?
because it gets old having ppl take advantage of our imperfections.
we defend ourselves by hiding our imperfections..
to me this doesn't make sense to me as we need to know others imperfections to be able to supplement their imperfections with our strengths and be of more value...IE if you can do everything by yourself,why would you need me?
but this again is subjective to humanity's ability to take advantage of anything...
and so the circle begins..





this is your grandpa's thinking..
their age said don't question..
our age is to question..
What point is questioning if it doesn't really get you anywhere?
depends if you are seeking understanding or justification..

keep in mind whenever an atheist points to a believers imperfection, it offends them ,why?

I'm not sure this is _always_ the case.

yea..i should have said 'many atheist'..

There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

I first took you to mean that whenever an atheist points to a believer's imperfection, the believer takes offense. To this, I commented that this might not always be the case.
But I am not sure now what you first meant -?




depends if you are seeking understanding or justification..

What difference do you see between the two?

Signal,



Could you say a bit more?



The argument could be made that someone who truly believes in God would not abuse people, much less in the name of God; and that therefore someone who abuses people does not actually believe in God; and moreover, someone who does not believe in God tries to make others not believe in God either.

A better argument would be that someone who has good intelligence would not abuse people. Belief, doesn't mean anything.
I can believe in God today, and tommorow lack belief, because of any number of reasons. Our actions are the measure of who and what we are.


Staunch academics or communists generally do not try to get their sons to become Catholic priests to begin with ...

They may employ the same level of passion to become academics, or, communists.



Do you mean that similarly, the idea has been implanted into our minds that people of God can do no wrong and that therefore when we hear that a child is abused by a priest, we conclude that this is not wrong ?


No. The idea of people can do no wrong, is not a religious one. At least a religion which bases its structure on scriptures.


Victims hold on to the belief that those acts of abuse are 'sanctioned by God' because it's okay to believe and accept that.
It was okay for George Bush to anounce that he invaded Iraq because God told him to do it. Nobody questioned it. It is accepted, and more importantly, will go down in history as factual.

The catholic child abuse scandal will also play a crucial role in the future, that will link religion (all) and God, to child-sex abuse, the one unforgivable crime.
You control the future by creating historical perceptions in the present.



Several posters in this thread seem to think so too; there seems to be an intuitive understanding that it is reasonable to expect that people of God cannot and should not do any wrong.


That is a set-up.
When such a person does something wrong, they say, told you it was all bullshit.
The only way to understand religion properly is to serve someone who follows it properly, who served someone, and so on...


You seem to be suggesting that one ought to accept that even people of God or people who claim to act in God's name can do wrong, and should be considered as having done wrong (as opposed to writing off their behavior as "divine lesson for the victim" or "you should turn the other cheek" or some such).

Who is of God?
How can you or I tell?
If God exists, then everything is ultimately of God. If we can't or wont percieve that, then who are we to say who or what is of God.

If someone claims something and we do not understand, or are unsure, then we should not be bullied into a situation where we learn to BELIEVE.

Notice when discussing the many downsides of evolution theory, the evolutionist standard retort is, you do not know what evolution is.
So either we believe evolution is true, or we are stupid for not believing.

You will find the same practices in many religious denominations.



Many of us have come to believe that the authority of anyone who claims to act in God's name or know God must not be questioned.


By not questioning it, you accept that they HAVE the the authority. WHY?


You, on the other hand, seem to suggest that this be not so.
If this is so, can you explain on the grounds of what you think so?

It's quite simple.
They could be con-artists.

jan.

There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

I first took you to mean that whenever an atheist points to a believer's imperfection, the believer takes offense. To this, I commented that this might not always be the case.
But I am not sure now what you first meant -?
the atheist (suppose theist also) acts like perfection is supposed to be the result of believing in god,whenever a believer confesses belief, an atheist will immediately start pointing at their imperfections, as if it is a measurement of that belief. its like the atheist get offended cause the believer is not perfect.



What difference do you see between the two?
justification vs understanding..
when a person is looking for justification they tend to stop listening/understanding when the discussion leads to changes in their understanding, they will only listen when the discussion lines up with their understanding of things, when it does not line up they will get defensive,

I can believe in God today, and tommorow lack belief, because of any number of reasons. Our actions are the measure of who and what we are.


Our actions are the measure of who and what we are.

I don't know if you are quoting someone else in that encapsulation.
If not, you have arrived by yourself at the very crux of the argument.

Why would anyone disagree with that?

Please, if you have gained this Philosophy through another philosopher,
let me know his name so that I can read his ideas further.


This is becoming a very interesting argument.

To what degree does religion become a conduit for evil action.
While not condoning it, enabling it, either through confession and absolution, or by saying that "Saved People" are justified by faith, and that their sins will be forgiven.

How many people have done things that they know to be wrong with the assurance that it will not affect their chances of eternal life?
It seems to me that both the Catholic and the Protestant Churches views on Sin do exactly the same thing.
As long as you join the club, repent according to regulations, and donate the alms, you'll be fine.

A better argument would be that someone who has good intelligence would not abuse people.

Anything that could be considered abuse can also be interpreted as an effort to teach someone a lesson.

"I beat her and forced her to have intercourse with me, so that she may learn who is in charge."
"Yes, I hit the boy, and yes, he bled and then had to get ten stitches. But he needed to be taught a lesson in humility."

How can anyone argue against such justifications for use of force?



They may employ the same level of passion to become academics, or, communists.

True.



No. The idea of people can do no wrong, is not a religious one. At least a religion which bases its structure on scriptures.

I am not so sure about that. There are many references on how the spiritual master can do nothing wrong, for example.



Victims hold on to the belief that those acts of abuse are 'sanctioned by God' because it's okay to believe and accept that.

I don't understand that?



It was okay for George Bush to anounce that he invaded Iraq because God told him to do it. Nobody questioned it. It is accepted, and more importantly, will go down in history as factual.

That is not my memory of the events. I vividly remember how some American Christians protested in the streets, claiming that GW Bush should not call himself a Christian and that he is misrepresenting Christianity.




Several posters in this thread seem to think so too; there seems to be an intuitive understanding that it is reasonable to expect that people of God cannot and should not do any wrong.

That is a set-up.
When such a person does something wrong, they say, told you it was all bullshit.

I don't understand?
When I see a religious person do something that is generally considered wrong, I am bewildered, and try to find a way to explain why it is not wrong if a religious person does something that would otherwise be considered wrong. If I don't find such an explanation, I feel guilty.



The only way to understand religion properly is to serve someone who follows it properly, who served someone, and so on...

But how can one know who that is?

Who is to say that, for example, Tomas de Torquemada was not an exemplary servant of God, and therefore should be followed or surrendered to?
Were the people who protested the Holy Inquisition not wrong to do so? Or the people who refused to instantly admit what they were accused of?



If someone claims something and we do not understand, or are unsure, then we should not be bullied into a situation where we learn to BELIEVE.

I have never seen, in any religious establishment or with religious people I have been with, that such freedom would readily be given; and if it was given, it was with a grudge and a threat to take offense.



Notice when discussing the many downsides of evolution theory, the evolutionist standard retort is, you do not know what evolution is.
So either we believe evolution is true, or we are stupid for not believing.

You will find the same practices in many religious denominations.

Sure. But how do you know that such practices are not in line with what a true servant of God would do?




Many of us have come to believe that the authority of anyone who claims to act in God's name or know God must not be questioned.
By not questioning it, you accept that they HAVE the the authority. WHY?

For me, religion/spirituality has always been about anxiously walking a tightrope between making an effort not to offend the theists and maintaining some semblance of sanity.
But given that theists generally take offense very easily, it is very difficult to behave in such a manner that they wouldn't take offense. In order to not offend them, I would often have to do things I don't understand or find repugnant.
If I do things as I see fit, they usually take offense, and I go down as an offender of God's people.
To me, most interactions with theists are such that no matter what I would do, I would be wrong and lose.




You, on the other hand, seem to suggest that this be not so.
If this is so, can you explain on the grounds of what you think so?

It's quite simple.
They could be con-artists.

They could also be enlightened and you too delusional to see it.
How then would you avoid causing them offense?

the atheist (suppose theist also) acts like perfection is supposed to be the result of believing in god,whenever a believer confesses belief, an atheist will immediately start pointing at their imperfections, as if it is a measurement of that belief. its like the atheist get offended cause the believer is not perfect.

The theist wants to rule, get the upper hand in the relationship. After all, the theist makes claims to know the Ruler of the Universe Himself. The theist speaks from the perspective that God is on his side, but against the other person.
When the theist turns out to be imperfect in some way, this can lead people to be reluctant to let the theist have the upper hand.
Do you think this is wrong?



justification vs understanding..
when a person is looking for justification they tend to stop listening/understanding when the discussion leads to changes in their understanding, they will only listen when the discussion lines up with their understanding of things, when it does not line up they will get defensive,

I don't understand that ...
By justification, I mean something like this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification

The theist wants to rule, get the upper hand in the relationship. After all, the theist makes claims to know the Ruler of the Universe Himself. The theist speaks from the perspective that God is on his side, but against the other person.
When the theist turns out to be imperfect in some way, this can lead people to be reluctant to let the theist have the upper hand.
Do you think this is wrong?

i think there is an element of atheist WANT theist to be right,they want to be able to dissociate their responsibility for their actions (theist also) and do that action because they were told to..ppl want to believe that theist have better knowledge concerning what is right and wrong in gods eyes..but that isn't always the case..
the upper hand you speak of is just an attempt to get ppl to listen to them and do as they are told.
fundamentally this is wrong..(there are exceptions) but we should take responsibility for our own beliefs and actions..the excuse 'because he told me to' does not hold up.

this line ends up being 'do as your told' vs 'think for yourself'


I don't understand that ...
By justification, I mean something like this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification
i was using it as most new users here get on and post their attitudes/beliefs in an attempt to get someone to agree with them, then they get irate when no-one does..they are not seeking understanding, they are seeking to justify their own attitudes/beliefs..(i suppose the word validate also works),

i think there is an element of atheist WANT theist to be right,they want to be able to dissociate their responsibility for their actions (theist also) and do that action because they were told to..ppl want to believe that theist have better knowledge concerning what is right and wrong in gods eyes..but that isn't always the case..
the upper hand you speak of is just an attempt to get ppl to listen to them and do as they are told.
fundamentally this is wrong..(there are exceptions) but we should take responsibility for our own beliefs and actions..the excuse 'because he told me to' does not hold up.

this line ends up being 'do as your told' vs 'think for yourself'

You are most welcome to participate here: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=105794

fundamentally this is wrong..(there are exceptions) but we should take responsibility for our own beliefs and actions..the excuse 'because he told me to' does not hold up.

this line ends up being 'do as your told' vs 'think for yourself'

Are you, as a theist, not offended when other people do not think, feel, speak and do as you want them to?

Are you, as a theist, not offended when other people do not think, feel, speak and do as you want them to?

as a rule no..
i do not believe that we should all act alike, we all have our differences and it is through these differences that we learn and grow from each other, if the world was full of ppl who agree'd with each other,we would stagnate as a species,
IOW I do NOT believe God wants a world full of clones.

as the exception..i hate it when ppl condemn,demean or just plain insult ppl just cause they don't agree with them..

Signal,


Anything that could be considered abuse can also be interpreted as an effort to teach someone a lesson.

"I beat her and forced her to have intercourse with me, so that she may learn who is in charge."
"Yes, I hit the boy, and yes, he bled and then had to get ten stitches. But he needed to be taught a lesson in humility."

Yes, but it is abuse, pure and simple.
An intelligent person will not abuse another person.



How can anyone argue against such justifications for use of force?

They can't, because the abuser is beyond reason.



I am not so sure about that. There are many references on how the spiritual master can do nothing wrong, for example.

Where?



I don't understand that?

It explains everything away.
Even the atheists are happy with that.



That is not my memory of the events. I vividly remember how some American Christians protested in the streets, claiming that GW Bush should not call himself a Christian and that he is misrepresenting Christianity.


Bush claim GOD told him to go to war. From what you say, these protests were about disasociating him from christianity.



I don't understand?
When I see a religious person do something that is generally considered wrong, I am bewildered, and try to find a way to explain why it is not wrong if a religious person does something that would otherwise be considered wrong. If I don't find such an explanation, I feel guilty.

Can you specifically link this type of thinking to any scriptoral injunction?



But how can one know who that is?

Develop understanding through scripture.
Read about great saints, and teachers. Connect the dots.



Who is to say that, for example, Tomas de Torquemada was not an exemplary servant of God, and therefore should be followed or surrendered to?

You try and answer that question.


Were the people who protested the Holy Inquisition not wrong to do so? Or the people who refused to instantly admit what they were accused of?

I've no idea.
Anyway, what does it matter, now?


I have never seen, in any religious establishment or with religious people I have been with, that such freedom would readily be given; and if it was given, it was with a grudge and a threat to take offense.

Then that establishment is not what it appears to be.
At least you were of the mind to discriminate.


Sure. But how do you know that such practices are not in line with what a true servant of God would do?

Did Jesus ever say to his disciples their stupid for not believing what he believes|?



For me, religion/spirituality has always been about anxiously walking a tightrope between making an effort not to offend the theists and maintaining some semblance of sanity.

Then it maybe time to rethink your definition of religion/spirituality.


But given that theists generally take offense very easily, it is very difficult to behave in such a manner that they wouldn't take offense.

This follows on from your definition.


In order to not offend them, I would often have to do things I don't understand or find repugnant.

see above.


If I do things as I see fit, they usually take offense, and I go down as an offender of God's people.

same as above.


To me, most interactions with theists are such that no matter what I would do, I would be wrong and lose.

What type of people would you be right and win, through interaction?



They could also be enlightened and you too delusional to see it.
How then would you avoid causing them offense?

Maybe, but I doubt it.
I don't have time to play footsie, if i'm wrong i'm wrong, but I trust my instinct, and am not too proud to accept if i'm wrong.

jan.

“
How can anyone argue against such justifications for use of force?
”
They can't, because the abuser is beyond reason.

not to pic nits..but there is a difference between force and abuse..

not to pic nits..but there is a difference between force and abuse..

Exactly. And this is how anything someone considers to be abuse can get reinterpreted to mean simply a "use of force".

How can anyone argue against such justifications for use of force?

They can't, because the abuser is beyond reason.

I posted a thread on the problems of epistemic autonomy here: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=105794
You are most welcome to participate.
The crux is that there seems to be no reason to either subject or refuse to subject oneself to another's intelligence, but also to another's will.
For example, a rapist can argue that he has done no wrong - and on the grounds of what can we really disagree with him? At most, our disagreement will be merely provisional and circumstantial (ie. by reference to social norms that it is wrong to rape); but unless we have direct knowledge of absolute morality and the source of this absolute morality being on our side as well, we cannot really stand in our disagreement with him.




I am not so sure about that. There are many references on how the spiritual master can do nothing wrong, for example.

Where?

Look at the Guruvastakam, for example.
It is a description of someone who is considered to be beyond doing anything wrong.




That is not my memory of the events. I vividly remember how some American Christians protested in the streets, claiming that GW Bush should not call himself a Christian and that he is misrepresenting Christianity.

Bush claim GOD told him to go to war. From what you say, these protests were about disasociating him from christianity.

Yes, they were.
I'm not sure what your emphasis is here, though? That people generally take for granted that it was indeed God who told GWB to go to war - ie. that people believe that God does such things as telling the presidents of big countries to invade other countries?
(Although such is fully in the scope of the God of the Old Testament.)




When I see a religious person do something that is generally considered wrong, I am bewildered, and try to find a way to explain why it is not wrong if a religious person does something that would otherwise be considered wrong. If I don't find such an explanation, I feel guilty.

Can you specifically link this type of thinking to any scriptoral injunction?

Matt. 7.5: You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Matt. 7.3: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
John 8.7: Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.
Matt. 7.1-2: Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Then there are well-known instructions not to criticize others and how the fault lies within - e.g. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/hare-krishna-forum/15965-fault-lies-within.html




Were the people who protested the Holy Inquisition not wrong to do so? Or the people who refused to instantly admit what they were accused of?
I've no idea.
Anyway, what does it matter, now?

I just gave a well-known historic example to make my point.
Similar is happening every day in congregations, albeit usually on a much lesser scale. For example, a member of the congregation accuses someone of something. Is the other person wrong for not instantly admitting to what they are being accused of?
For example, a theist once accused me of something which I thought was not true. I defended myself, to which he replied that I am accusing him of lying - that not only have I committed what he is accusing me of, but that I am now also blaspheming him for accusing him of lying.




Sure. But how do you know that such practices are not in line with what a true servant of God would do?

Did Jesus ever say to his disciples their stupid for not believing what he believes|?

I would not dare to make judgments on what Jesus said or meant.




For me, religion/spirituality has always been about anxiously walking a tightrope between making an effort not to offend the theists and maintaining some semblance of sanity.

Then it maybe time to rethink your definition of religion/spirituality.

Rethink it into what?
What else could there be?




To me, most interactions with theists are such that no matter what I would do, I would be wrong and lose.

What type of people would you be right and win, through interaction?

I don't know. Perhaps there are no such people.



Maybe, but I doubt it.
I don't have time to play footsie, if i'm wrong i'm wrong, but I trust my instinct, and am not too proud to accept if i'm wrong.

Good for you then.
I suppose I am just not humble enough to accept that I might have to spend several million kalpas an hell for offending a theist.

The Pope doesn't think in soundbites.

I can see a future where young people are so exposed to extreme and degrading forms of sex, that they are made impotent by it.


I see that NOW. Far too many think that what they see on TV - everything from the soaps to Law and Order SVU is "normal" that they can't form real, lasting, loving relationships with anyone. Case in point was the reaction to the Bobby Brown/Whitney Houston fiasco. A good many youngsters thought Houston was wrong to have left Brown. Whether or not the allegations were true, the idea that violence in a sexual relationship ( or any other kind) is "normal" is indeed terrifying.

Years ago we used to have Catholic neighbors....

Their Son { AGE 15 } had been molested by a priest.

Who HAD in turn gone HIMSELF & molested { Anally raped } two other Little Catholic Baby boys who were
{ around age 6 ) ...

He also molested a 4 yr. Little baby Girl.

His mother (

A Necromancer

& .... Pagan demon possesed, Typical, Catholic woman WHO ( SHE ) Comunicated daily, with dead spirits }... babysit for Her Catholic church FRIENDS..

this woman used to force her Son to pray to dead spirits,~~~-

-~~~SO CALLED SAINTS, that ROME already has {pre judged} as HEAVEN BOUND.. { what a shame }

This boy confessed his evil deeds to US and WE informed { IN PRIVATE } the neighbor who had another little Catholic Girl ( around Age 6 }

We prayed with Him & He informed us that when He prays to These DEAD people at night He feels demons & EVIL Spirits all around his room & He cant Move.

One day when His Mother was gone One of US went over to his Home & Prayed & BLESED his HOME.... RIDDING this evil catholic pagan spirit of hell that had taken over his mind.

THANK God He was freed of that evil & has learned to never EVER EVER comunicate with the dead..

IN THE BIBLE this is a sin & pinished BY DEATH

DEATH ( by stoning )

Catholicisms two main foundational pillars are indeed sodomy & necromancy///...

THIS IS A FACT


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sodomites & CHILD molesters are so packed out & Deeply ROOTED into this Catholic Roman tic pagan CHURCH that The entire filthy vatican is in ONE Headline & NEWS Alert after another …

& The POPE has been asked to apear in court in 2. lawsuitS… for the writing of PAPAL letters to keep Catholic pAGAN rOMAN- TIC.,…………. CHILD molesters / SODOMITES CRIME A SECRET..

SSSHHHH

THIS is nothing new….TO ROME

..sodomy & NECROMANCY have been at the foundation of catholicsim FROM THE begening of its Deception / Conception in the 3 rd Century.

Catholics are THE MOST…. PAGAN people on the planet ……………………… of all time……………………

There is none NO other CULT WHATSOEVER……..{ on the FACE OF THE entire EARTH……. At any place & at any TIME ……. known to mankind

WHOLY & Diligently, its roman tic pagan Propagators, ~~~~~~ Wait around WATCHING for EXCREMENTS TO OOZE out from the orifices of their pagan idols they serve.

They dress up these vain idols of the PEOPLE they pray to.

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP …. AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF

Years ago we used to have Catholic neighbors....

Their Son { AGE 15 } had been molested by a priest.

Who HAD in turn gone HIMSELF & molested { Anally raped } two other Little Catholic Baby boys who were
{ around age 6 ) ...

He also molested a 4 yr. Little baby Girl.

His mother (

A Necromancer

& .... Pagan demon possesed, Typical, Catholic woman WHO ( SHE ) Comunicated daily, with dead spirits }... babysit for Her Catholic church FRIENDS..

this woman used to force her Son to pray to dead spirits,~~~-

-~~~SO CALLED SAINTS, that ROME already has {pre judged} as HEAVEN BOUND.. { what a shame }

This boy confessed his evil deeds to US and WE informed { IN PRIVATE } the neighbor who had another little Catholic Girl ( around Age 6 }

We prayed with Him & He informed us that when He prays to These DEAD people at night He feels demons & EVIL Spirits all around his room & He cant Move.

One day when His Mother was gone One of US went over to his Home & Prayed & BLESED his HOME.... RIDDING this evil catholic pagan spirit of hell that had taken over his mind.

THANK God He was freed of that evil & has learned to never EVER EVER comunicate with the dead..

IN THE BIBLE this is a sin & pinished BY DEATH

DEATH ( by stoning )

Catholicisms two main foundational pillars are indeed sodomy & necromancy///...

THIS IS A FACT


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sodomites & CHILD molesters are so packed out & Deeply ROOTED into this Catholic Roman tic pagan CHURCH that The entire filthy vatican is in ONE Headline & NEWS Alert after another …

& The POPE has been asked to apear in court in 2. lawsuitS… for the writing of PAPAL letters to keep Catholic pAGAN rOMAN- TIC.,…………. CHILD molesters / SODOMITES CRIME A SECRET..

SSSHHHH

THIS is nothing new….TO ROME

..sodomy & NECROMANCY have been at the foundation of catholicsim FROM THE begening of its Deception / Conception in the 3 rd Century.

Catholics are THE MOST…. PAGAN people on the planet ……………………… of all time……………………

There is none NO other CULT WHATSOEVER……..{ on the FACE OF THE entire EARTH……. At any place & at any TIME ……. known to mankind

WHOLY & Diligently, its roman tic pagan Propagators, ~~~~~~ Wait around WATCHING for EXCREMENTS TO OOZE out from the orifices of their pagan idols they serve.

They dress up these vain idols of the PEOPLE they pray to.

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP …. AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF

first off no one is an actual necromancer so calling catholics that is just stupid. though I suppose loosely you could view ME's( medical examiners) as necromancers.


secondly considering you have to have died before you can even become a saint saying catholics prejudge saints as going to heaven is false. but he given your already established ranting and raving and your tenious grasp of facts when they get in the way of your attacking catholicism its to be expected.

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP …. AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF[/B]

please tone down the font!

@retryaliser
I would guess you are a hair's breadth from a banning.
Try dropping the large red font.
Try to use correct grammar and punctuation.
You sound like a lunatic the way you are writing things.

Doesn't this look a whole lot better than the way you wrote it?



His mother, a necromancer and a Pagan demon, was possesed.
A typical Catholic woman, she communicated daily with dead spirits.
She used to babysit for her Catholic friends.


Isn't that nicer than letters and words sprawling all over the place?

YOu people wake up////please /.......POPE PIUS IS NOT HERE to save America Like he saved the jews



regular letters are not much better...
reX prefers the facts to be noticed & read by everyone possible..

people who are lovers of lieS & WHOM enjoy making up lies,

like to type little tiny teeny letters

& hope OTHERS ( POPPULAR seeming social lights or the auctal mods... themselves... ) pick up their littLe quacky fabled fantasy comments That really say nothing factual ( JUST OPINION )

Then every body COOL regurgitates it & begins commenting on your little teeny topic...

Then you feel important..

reX does not have OPINIONS....thaT He wants to fEEEL important...about...

reX lives in the reALM of FACTS........BORDERLINE BANNING...on the edge...Like the mentioning of more than 20 children, were burned alive

HELD HOSTAGE by the WACO TeXas David Keresh...

THE phoTos could be posted here...BUT the MODERATOR dont like solid proof of anything that proves anything..

THEY like perpetual confusion Babling ON & ON...with no foundation based in fact..

But U can Go online & view their DEAD BURNED charred bodies ...WHAT about these little innocent children,.. >??

Everyone seems so upset about the little 9 yr old girl shot in Arizona..but they dont care about the child...THEY want to use the child to force politics to put the guns in to their hands ..

They never mourned a tear for the 20 little babies burned alive at waco...

These democrats & Liberal animals are so filthy & sick..

They should be tried in a court of laW...CONVICTED & be given the dealth penality FOR MURDER of 20 little children HELD HOSTAGE....by Janet Reno CLINTON & the DENOMIC democratic cult...



The kids were hostage ) HELPLESS to save themselves or even leave ,,

& the USA Government burned them alive......Bec they wanted to prove Polygamy is so bad & evil.....

This fact......people dont like being reminded of facts..

so sTick to your Little teeny, tiny joke lines & let reX stick to the facts...


If they want to BANN reX.....its ok....the truth remains TRUTH


ban the facts if you will BUT U WILL NEVER hide from God,




OBAMA & HIS DEMON POSSESED democratic PARTY keep on pushing for VIOLENCE...
Here ARE Obamas own WORDS calling for MURDER & VIOLENCE & HATE & anger to be turned to PHYSICAL LITERAL VIOLENCE

Hitler did the same eXact same...

“Bring it on”- Obama SCREAMS ... Regime to The American People.

“Get ready for hand-to-hand combat with your fellow Americans” – Obama DECLARED to his ignorant mob..

“I want all Americans to get in each others faces! – Obama demands of his fellow bums & idiots.

“You bring a knife to a fight pal, we’ll bring a gun” – Obama Cant wait to get everybody involved in some kind OF CONFRONTATION of some sort....



"Republicans are our enemies"--Obama has enemies...& he wants the local mob....& crack head followers To get ready for take over...

** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”

ANGER IS OBAMAS medecine for america....The first Crack head president...

Bill Clinton was the first Black president...

** Obama to His LITTLE crack head Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”


** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

OBAMA was won by the CATHOLIC VOTE....the pope I am sure loves America with this crack head in the white house....THE WHOLE COUNTRY LOOKS LIKE A comic movie from hell ......

The pope probably feels like he is on CRACK watching this president just take a breath,,..

He manages to say absolutly nothing ABOUT nothing.

** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

HE IS EXPECTING people to kill for him....THIS IS WHAT HE LIVES FOR


THESE ARE OBAMAS OWN WORDS..

** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”



“God Damn America” – Barrack Hussein Obama’s Spiritual Advisor


YOu people wake up////please /.......POPE PIUS IS NOT HERE to save America Like he saved the jews

Likes to type little tiny teeny letters.
He He He!
That's so true.:)
You've got me there Rex.
Reading that made me laugh.

Look. Take a few minutes off putting the world to rights.
What do you think my avatar is?
Yours is a lion drinking water.

OK
I'll give you a clue.
It's not a demon.

regular letters are not much better...
[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]reX prefers the facts to be noticed & read by everyone possible..


your posts hurt my eyes..i won't read them..

your posts hurt my eyes..i won't read them..

The size of the type really doesn't bother me...It's all the color changes..

It's like reading crap written with crayons...I have the guy on ignore.

Not like he has anything of value to say anyway, just a troll.:shrug:

Good idea.
I'll put him on ignore as well.
It looks like something written during recreation hour at the funny farm.

Ah, that's better.
Would people please stop quoting him.
I can still see that.

There was a time -before the eighteenth century - when children were not considered distinct from adults. At some point during the Industrial revolution, childhood was given some sort of hallowed status which brought in the concept of consent, minors, age of reason, age for voting, age for marriage [all of which are highly localised and based on local attitudes towards what constitutes the divide between childhood and adulthood]

Now we live in an age where children are a separate species and gender.But its a fairly recent phenomenon and not entirely embraced everywhere [social workers in India, for example, are apt to come up against violent opposition when they try to prevent child marriages].

But the trend now is towards childlike prepubescent images of women and waxed slender representations of men.

yes and that is just horrendous beyond imagining. i can't imagine what even more horrors they endured at such a young and vulnerable age. they are definitely not the same as adults nor do they have the power, ability or knowledge of adults. the thought a child or young person was bought and sold or enslaved is hellish beyond hellish and evil. goddamn, that's fucked up evil. what's even more enlightening is that even in the animal kingdom, there are very few to none species that enslave another or eachother as heinously as humans have and do. they may kill another but the level of perversion, suffering and damage that humans inflict is beyond all that.

there are some people with that type of mentality even today but they tend to be very reptilish and predatorial.

You people are posting too many LIES to even Keep up with yourselves

Deleting rexeS proven facts will not lessen the eXXXposure that your lies have received.

reX is eXXposing every dot ever letter U post

as a lie,,,,,

While I have put Breathalizer on ignore,
I can still see that he is posting things.
Has this section got an administrator at all, or can people post any old shite?

I can't see it, so. possibly he is writing sense instead of cut-and-paste lunacy in big red crayon.

You people are posting too many LIES to even Keep up with yourselves

Deleting rexeS proven facts will not lessen the eXXXposure that your lies have received.

reX is eXXposing every dot ever letter U post

as a lie,,,,,

Dumbarse..

Stop with the moronic comments and that god awful font.

The only thing you are exposing at the moment is that you are mentally challenged individual who missed his bus to the foil hat parade.

A Necromancer or "spirits conjurer of spirits to GIVE spiritual protection & wisdom.

The word necromancy derives from the Greek (nekrós), "dead", and (manteía), "divination".
THE Catholics calls up a spirit of the dead to communicate openly

Calling upon HUNDREDS of many types of spirits ......... Spirits such as the ghosts of ancestors.
calling up ghost to appear as a full body apparition ...Or IN dreams...

Necromancy was widespread pagan practiced picked up by Rome. & added to SO CALLED FAKE CHRISTIANITY

IT IS AGAINST THE ENTIRE BIBLE....


in the Bible. The Book of Deuteronomy (XVIII 9–12) explicitly warns the Israelites against the Canaanite practice of divination from the dead.

THE PUNISHMENT was DEath by STONING......Same for Sodomy THESE 2 Sodomy & Necromancy are the 2 main PILLARS & FOUNDATIONS of the Roman Tic Catholic cult..;

ph 2:18 For through him _ JESUS //.... we both have access ..............by one........... Spirit unto............ the Father.
Through JESUS ALONE 1, SPIRIT JEWS & GENTILES have access by one Spirit unto the Father. by one Spirit unto the Father.

Catholics are THE MOST.... PAGAN people on the planet ........................... of all time........................

They worship MARY calling HER Heavenly MOTHER LIKE Heavenly Father

Calling her ANOTHER Mediator Like JESUS the ONLY Mediator

They Declare MARY has SAVING GRACE & CAN save you.....help you throughi\out your life by PRAYING TO HER...

PRAYING TO HER... Just like they pray to Jesus.Mary of Rome has A THRONE in heaven They have o\placed a crown UPON her .

..WHEN there is not a single scripture mentioning MARY in any of these lies..
There is none NO other CULT WHATSOEVER........{ on the FACE OF THE entire EARTH......

. At any place & at any TIME ....... known to mankind



WHOLY & Diligently, its roman tic pagan Propagators, ~~~~~~ Wait around WATCHING for EXCREMENTS TO OOZE out from the orifices of their pagan idols they serve.

They dress up these vain idols of the PEOPLE they pray to.

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP .... AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF .......................././///////////////////...........................................
requesting Good luck, Graces, requesting, protections, PROCTECTINGS & OMENS & SUPERSTITIOUS help FROM THE DEAD.

They pray to the dead... while a WHOLE MARKET./....................ROMAN TIC ... SELLING goes on WORLDWIDE ......... for a PROFIT AS MERCHANDISE

... THE IDOL OF the dead person they ARE ASKING FOR HELP FROM..


ITs easy to see Y pope pius HATED JEWS..People who practice necromance are probably possesed with evil spirits of Hell , & THE are praying to evil spirits....

disguised as someone else,,,,,In the bible this was punishable by STONING Same as SODOMY,,,,

Deleting rexeS proven facts

no not delete..just ignore..
congrats you are the first person to make it on my ignore list..

yEA

How can U win a debate WHEN CATHOLIC DONT EVEN BELIEVE THE BOOK


PUT A qURAN IN THEIR HAND & THEY WORSHIP THE BOOK...

Bowing down to it like iTs a LOST holy Relic.
IT just shows the distain & hatred Catholic are filled with...

the hate for GODs word....& Yashuah,,

us Jews and The bride...
They call ALLAH Jesus ,,,,God./

caTholics are not even allowed to read the bible...

Out of the guidlines the man in ROME has pre set ...

The pope CORRECTS the bible...How can U win a debate WHEN CATHOLIC DONT EVEN BELIEVE THE BOOK

“Neither Sacred Scripture nor universal ecclesiastical tradition, nor again scientific

considerations render it advisable to adhere to the opinion that the Flood covered the

whole surface of the earth.” The... 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia

THIS IS WHAT THESE Liars declare ...



"The Bible as a literary work had traditions that included myth" CATHOLIC ENC , (Vol.10,page 184).

"Some of the miracles recorded in Holy Scripture may be fictional

and include imaginative literary exaggerations. CATHOLIC ENC Vol. 10, page 184).


The episode of Noe and the Ark is imaginative literary creation" CATHOLIC ENC (Vol. 9, page 887).

The Gospels are not biographies of Jesus and still less scientific history" CATHOLIC ENC

(Vol. 12, page 403).


They DONT EVEN BELIEVE the bible LIKE MUSLIMS they pretend they believe & LIE ABOUT WHAT IT SAYS

THEY feel they have the RIGHT to lie & IGNORE cerTian clear verses...BEC THE verses disagre with THEIR Roman TIC pagan junk Theology..]]

THEY TRULLY HATE THE BIBLE...

While I have put Breathalizer on ignore,
I can still see that he is posting things.
Has this section got an administrator at all, or can people post any old shite?

I can't see it, so. possibly he is writing sense instead of cut-and-paste lunacy in big red crayon.

he is doing the same thing in the pope pius thread in the history section.

I must have a look, and see how many posts are invisible.

This isn't on really.
I can see, just, how a certain amount of this stuff could be allowed on the Religion section.
It is a variety of religion, albeit an aggressive bigoted, insane variety.
But History too?
Why?

Obviously reX has been right on track ~ RIGHT on Target in presenting the full facts...

The catholislamic Defendies / Rape FUNDIES - Do not deal in FACTS

The Truth & details are like an insult. They project the HATE they feel for truth ...By accusations of HATE... This is their ~~~...

1 st & LAST & only defence


Pope pius was a religious man BUT EVEN Satan even Hitler was religious

SATAN believes in 1 god as well....THE popes are like little saTans...

TO catholislamics WHO Worship the VERY same eXact God ~NOTICE how Their catholislamic controlled countries are allways IN POVERTY & are third world hell Holes .

They shut out

SHUT DOWN .~ torment & Villify , defame & slander the INVENTERS & Progress makers THE TECHNOLOGISTS & bussiness & the promoters of Cultural change in business Inventions & tools & supply...

All who speak out against the catholislamic teachings & religion.. OR WHO DONT FULLY SUPPORT catholislamic teachings.....

U go to a catholislamic country with INVENTIONS / Progress / Bussiness / Cultural change in business Inventions & tools & supply...

speaking or teaching or GIVING anti~ catholislamic attitude & changing things, they will burn you out & U will go nowhere.....

THAT is Y meXicans & all catholislamic peoples are comming here

Like Mexico, Phillipines, Cuba Africa,/ Mid east catholislamic peoples ect....


Catholislamic controled countries have a few wealthy THE REST are VERy very poor people


1633 Galileo discovered Mts. on the Moon and earth revolving around the Sun. WAS TRIED & convicted by the CATHOLIC CHURCH Inquisition for affirming a compatibility between science and the Bible

Galileo WAS PLACED ON trial by the CATHOLIC CHURCH Inquisition & found guilty of EVIL heresy & sentenced him to prison, FOR HIS remaining LIFE

Bruno, Giordano (1548. ANOTHER GREAT scientist, the CATHOLIC church burnt HIM ALIVE at the stake..he wrote Of UnitS, Quantity, ShapeS, Images, & Ideas AS Immense & Innumerable
Nicolas Copernicus (1473 Founder of modern astronomy HIS GREAT BOOK De Revolutionibus WAS BANNED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1400 AD,,, Pope Boniface VIII issued a decree forbidding the dissection of human corpses for anatomical study AND SCIENCE.

Andreas Vesalius, WROTE A GREAT book of 1543, On Structures of the Human Body, provided the first reliable information on human anatomy ever compiled. he was persecuted by THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HE wandered RUNNING from country FOR HIS LIFE

The idea that the earth goes round the sun was explicitly prohibited / Copernican theory remained on the Index until 1835.

The Catholic cult now believes that the earth may in fact go round the sun

Joseph Addison 1719) Great writer of books SUCH AS "Tragedy" Based on Freedom & government responsibility. Individual liberty vs. government tyranny..

HIS GREAT BOOKS BANNED by the cat holic church AS EVIL & WICKED.

Francis Bacon 1561 Known as a catalyst of the scientific revolution. HIS GREAT BOOKS BANNED by the cat holic church AS EVIL & WICKED.

CATHOLIC Book burnings OF Bibles were common IN 1521. Translators and publishers themselves were also burned. Possession of Bibles became criminal offenses & execution of the accused.

The Geneva Bible 1560 WAS BANNED & outlawed BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. Visit http://www.greatsite.com/ TODAY to buy an original TRANSLATION of the GREAT Geneva Bible..THE WORD OF GOD

The Bishops Bible (1568... GODS WORD WAS BURNED & OUTLAWED BY THE CATHOLIC church study here http://www.studylight.org/info/copyright/bible/bis.html

William Tyndale TRANSLATED THE 1 ST...ENGLISH BIBLE. HE was HUNTED DOWN BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. CATHOLIC arrested by Cardinal Wolsey/. He spent over a year in jail, was strangled & burned at the stake
DOC....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXCDD0UJv3s

catholislamic countries live in ignorance....ANY NEW people bringing in new ideas or better life....are shut down,

BEC the only people inventing things are NON catholislamics...... catholislamic invent nothing...they worship ignorance...* hate FACTS *& truth....

Pope Pius though--- 8 million Jews & millions more vicTims slaughtered...

He never spoke a word to council the Ignorant Itallians to sTop aTTacking & raping their neighbors.....

This shows how he could CARE LESS about The pople his Catholic Country was aTTacking...

How much LESS he cared FOR JEWS.......

OR are catholic the most divided people on the planet ?

reX chooses to believe both........Facts support it clearly....

WHAT has reX said that is incorrect ? Then Y pretend you have anything truthfull ?

Bec all you do is declare FACT a lie....it is your only defence IT IS YOUR god.......

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html#ixzz19Wmdzyir

I am curious what Christians think.

I think yet again Catholicism has proven yet again to be the false prophet of Christianity, it subcombs to False teachings, Hitler, evolution and sexual abuse of children. It's become the perfect religion for the world by allowing you to make it up as you go along.

I like the way you just slipped evolution in there.

As regards Hitler, how many churches did actively oppose him?
The Jehovah''s Witnesses did. And got their own badge at the concentration camps for their pains.
And the Greek Orthodox church. They were brave. Maybe a few more.
Many Catholics opposed Hitler in private, but did not oppose him.
What of other Christians?
Most just kept their heads down, same as Catholics, to their shame.

This is becoming a very good discussion.

Tip. To put someone on your ignore list, click on user CP, and then edit ignore list.
(I don't mean you, Saquist)

The catholic church is the enemy to the Child.....


CHILDREN are defenceless

The Jews can defend themselves Today.....

But children can not defend themselves,.

THEY are innocenT , virgin, UN KNOWING & clean from perversity ...in many many sences...

But just because the Jews can defend themselves BY

acTive reminding the HORRID the CHURCH of ROME has acTed out on JEWS

WHO SIMPLY disagreed.....Jews do not aGREE with catholic Teaching & they speak about it ..

Rome does not like this....

Pius IX, declared in 1871 that by rejecting Christianity, Jews had become 'dogs'

and that 'we have today in Rome unfortunately too many of these dogs, and we hear them barking in all the streets, and going around molesting people everywhere.'

Pius IX's antisemitism was not confined to his vivid invective. He was also a passionate

In 1871, addressing a group of Catholic women, POPE Pius said that

the Jews ''.... failure to believe, they have become dogs'' (emphasis in the original.).

''We have today in Rome unfortunately too many of these dogs,

and we hear them barking
in all the streets, and going around molesting people everywhere.''

This is the pope beatified by John Paul II in 2000.

Catholic FATHER John Chrysostom - 344-407 A.D., ,"The Jews, worse than wild beasts ... lower THAN VILE animals. AT the level of the lusty goat and the pig.

I hate the Jews ... I hate the Synagogue ... it is the duty of all Christians to hate the Jews.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sourc...tom-jews6.html

Jerome - satanic Father of the Cat holic church Produced the Latin translation of the bible which became the official WHORES bible. He said ,

"Jews are incapable of understanding scripture

and should be severely punished until they confess the true faith

In 1233, Pope Gregory IX satanic Father of the Cat holic holic church established the papal Inquisition South France & Northern Italy To convert of Jews to CATHOLICISM.

the Inquisition, brought on a wave of persecution. Of HORRIBLE HORID .
. Torture Of millions HORRIBLE HORID .. Torture was approved by Pope Innocent IV

The SATANIC Catholic Church launched nine holy wars 1096-1272. The purpose of these wars was to march to the Holy Land of Palestine and liberate it from infidels." Along the way, the crusaders massacred all "infidels" in their path who refused to be baptized on the spot to Cat holicism. Thousands of Jews were massacred in Germany and France. 1205: Pope Innocent III satanic Father wrote that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord..

.As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire,

they shall be slaves of Christians


Pius IX declared ...'The Jews -- eternal insolent children, obstinate, dirty, thieves, liars, ignoramuses, pests and the scourge of those near and far . . a .. barbarian invasion by an enemy race, hostile to Christianity and to society in general.''

Those words appeared in news papers in Rome Dec. 1840, with 36 articles written over 40 months in Civilta Cattolica, the journal Pope Pius IX had ordered the Jesuits to publish in Rome --Pius IX In 1867 canonized Peter Arbues, a 15th-century inquisitor who forcibly converted Jews

Garry Wills is the author of ''A Necessary Evil: A History of American Distrust of Government'' and ''Papal Sin.''

1593, Pope Clement VIII declared that Jews commanded to live in the ghettoes .....hose living elsewhere were forced out. Carrying their possessions
on their backs,

the Jews made their way to those places where they were still permitted

Following the 1775 papal order, ~~ JEWS remained WHO outside the ghetto could neither live in the same house with Catholics "nor speak familiarly to them."

Everyone was able to tell who was a Jew, because, in another
sixteenth-century papal provision reiterated in the 1775 edict, Jews were
required to wear a special badge on their clothes.

HITLER coppied this CATHOLIC Tradition / forcing JEWS to wear a BADGE .

"Jews of both sexes must wear a yellow-colored sign, by which they are distinguished from
others, and they must always wear it at all times and places, both in the
ghettoes, and when they are outside of them."

The men were to wear the yellow sign on their hat, and women on their uncovered hair. To prevent the Jews from giving themselves airs, they were forbidden from riding in
carriages or buggies.

Jews were not allowed to keep shops or warehouses outside the ghetto/..

This has been Going on for 2000 yrs....

THIS IS JUST a tiny SMALL eXample of Hate & vile treatment of HEBREWS by the ROMAN tic Catholic church

Rubbish!
Is what I would probably say if I could read that post.
Fortunately I have you on ignore :p

http://www.countryuniverse.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/monkey-with-fingers-in-ears.jpg

I think yet again Catholicism has proven yet again to be the false prophet of Christianity, it subcombs to False teachings, Hitler, evolution and sexual abuse of children. It's become the perfect religion for the world by allowing you to make it up as you go along.

??????????????????????????????????????????


I take it you know about as much about catholicism as reteryalizer or fuck all.


false teachings. you protestant have to be the most arrogant bastards the world has ever seen. Guess what you don't get to come around some 1500 years later and than tell the group you broke off of that their teachings are false

as for making it up along has been attached to a few religions cathloicism not one of them. thinking that just show blind hatred, complete ignorance, or some combo of the two.




yes catholicism has problems but people who know fuck all( nothing) about the faith should actualy try and learn WTF your talking about before hand.

You tell em pjdude.
Bloody Johnny come lately's!

The Fact is......MUSLISM & CATHOLICS....

Can NEVER once,,,

refer To a single .....sTatement reX has posTed.

..& PROVE it to be FALSE

To be incorrect

To be a lie........

Their only defence is....to divert the subject awaY FROM THE FACTS.....

They will never PROVIDE proof... a single thing they say concerning reX...

BEC they have nothing.........lies are their only love...


THE Truth makes no sence

??????????????????????????????????????????


I take it you know about as much about catholicism as reteryalizer or fuck all.


false teachings. you protestant have to be the most arrogant bastards the world has ever seen. Guess what you don't get to come around some 1500 years later and than tell the group you broke off of that their teachings are false

as for making it up along has been attached to a few religions cathloicism not one of them. thinking that just show blind hatred, complete ignorance, or some combo of the two.




yes catholicism has problems but people who know fuck all( nothing) about the faith should actualy try and learn WTF your talking about before hand.

(shakes head)

You know when I can just pop open a catholic encyclopedia and list the contradictions of their own doctrine, the MONUMENTAL failures of morality and the endorsed killings despite the fact that Christianity under Christ is supposed to be the tolerant of others despite fundamental disagreement. Yet they used it as a blunt object through out time and today...the children scared by this religion... thousands if not Millions. COSMIC IS RIGHT. I have personally monitored the selling of Catholic property, the attenuation of it's members and the hard nosed atheist it's produced because the only truth they were convinced of is how wrong it was to trust a catholic priest.

...no accountability.
I hate what they've done. But I know it's just systemic.


I like the way you just slipped evolution in there.

No offense of course, Captain.
From a Christian perspective evolution defies the legitimacy of the creation account the lineage that was based on it that the Jews used to identify Jesus as the Messiah if it's assumed to be allegory only. The entire point of the consistent listing of the Sons and Fathers was identify the Davidic line. It's most important to a christian...it's a foundation of the ransom sacrifice that he was....one of those rare sons of God...like Adam.

Evolution can currently fit within Christian teaching, not as the method of creation but of adaptation after creation. So you see it's very pivotal to Christian Foundation.



As regards Hitler, how many churches did actively oppose him?
The Jehovah''s Witnesses did. And got their own badge at the concentration camps for their pains.

Bingo...and they paid for it.
As did the free masons who refused to abide.

But it's more than just opposing. I read somewhere that the pope conducted meetings to ensure Catholicism's continued presence in occupied Europe.

(Searching)

Frankly some of this is disturbing...

The Gathering Storm: by Churchill


Winston Churchill reports that Hitler appointed Franz von Papen as German minister to Vienna for "the undermining or winning over of leading personalities in Austrian politics." Churchill quotes the U.S. Minster in Vienna as saying of van Papen: "In the boldest and most cynical manner... Papen proceeded to tell me that...he intended to use his reputation as a good Catholic to gain influence with the Austrians like Cardinal Innitzer."

After Austria had capitulated Hitler's storm troopers had goose-stepped into Vienna, Catholic cardinal Innitzer ordered that all Austrian churches fly the swastika flag, ring their bells and pray for Adolf Hitler in honor of his birthday.



William L. Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich states that von Papen was "more responsible than any other individual in Germany for Hitler's coming to power." In January 1933 former German Chancellor von Schleicher had said of van Papen: "He proved to be the kind of traitor besides whom Judas Iscariot is a saint."

Ah...Here we go.

July 20, 1933
Cardinal Pacelli signed a concordat in Rome between the Vatican and Nazi Germany. Von Papen signed the document as Hitler's representative and Pacelli there conferred on von Papen the high papal decoration of the Grand Cross of the Order of Pius.

Tibor Koeves' Satan in Top Hat
" The Concordat was great victory for Hitler. It gave him the first moral support he had received from the outer world and this from the most exalted source"

Article 14 of the Concordat states:
"The appointments for archbishops, bishops and the like will be issued only after the governor, installed by the Reich , has duly ascertained that no doubts exist with respect to general political considerations." This man become Pope Pius XI.








And the Greek Orthodox church. They were brave. Maybe a few more.
Many Catholics opposed Hitler in private, but did not oppose him.
What of other Christians?
Most just kept their heads down, same as Catholics, to their shame.

Read Guenter Lewy's The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany.
It's a lot to type out of a book. See pates 320, 341.
I'll type it if I have time. The insight this man has on capitulation and what it would mean if Rome had not...is thought provoking.


This is becoming a very good discussion.



I'm not often against ONE particular religion but I have read some STUFF on Catholicism that literally makes my skin crawl. I've listened to the recounting of children of the survivors of the holocaust and what they went through.
It's so clear...(at least to me) that the Catholic authority as a religion is one of the most morally treacherous entities I have EVER encountered in my readings of history. They constantly play both sides. I don't believe Christianity was ever meant to be a religion of nations but a faith of people among the nations.

The Church is the body of believers, not an organisation.
That is Catholic doctrine, though it is sometimes forgotten in all the pomp and powerplay that complicated all-male societies delight in.
The Jehovah's Witnesses who went to the camps fit the description of Saints and Martyrs. Wrong theology though.

The corruption of the Gospel to fit in with politics came into the church at the very beginning.
The Gospels themselves are clearly anti-semitic, and pro Roman.

I don't know if you would consider the Romans any better than the Nazis.
They were equally imperialistic and cruel. and yet they get away in the Gospels with a mere washing of hands.

LOL CK, stop smoking that stuff.

Grim Face.
That's not funny , it's religion.
It's an important part of being a human being.
Yes, half of it is nonsense, but which half?

So an individual with no religion is not a human being? lol

All human beings are religious.
If not, they will substitute an equivalent raison d'etre.
Politics, Science, Opera. Whatever.

All human beings are religious.
If not, they will substitute an equivalent raison d'etre.
Politics, Science, Opera. Whatever.

Oh my god, you opened my eyes. Maybe we should build a temple in honours of Captain Kremmen. :O

The Church is the body of believers, not an organisation.

The wiki describes the church as one of the oldes "Institutions". And institution is an organization founded and united for a specific purpose. ~princeton.edu

supplanting the wiki.
An organization is
# arrangement: an organized structure for arranging or classifying;
#administration: the persons (or committees or departments etc.) who make up a body for the purpose of administering something;
#the activity or result of distributing or disposing persons or things properly or methodically;

Comparative organizational traits.

A head: The Pope
Districts: more than 2700 Diocese
Superviors: Biships
Further broken down by titles within parishes to priest and deacons. Seeing as these individuals are not merely members but part of administration to tend to billions the word organization would seem to apply.



The corruption of the Gospel to fit in with politics came into the church at the very beginning.
The Gospels themselves are clearly anti-semitic, and pro Roman.

The Gospels are pro Roman? Despite the fact that according to those Gospels Christ was recorded within them having a kingdom that was no part of the world? Despite the fact he was put to death by both Jews and Romans? Didn't John take the Ear off a Roman Guard? Didn't the Gospel recorded by Matthew call the whole world under the power of Satan? Wouldn't that include Rome? Didn't Jesus foretell the end of this World?

And when it came to whether Christians would abide by the New Law or the Old Law did not Paul instruct the congregations "Circumcision does not mean a thing and uncircumcision means not a thing, but observance of God's commandments does." And Paul cicumcised Timothy just to avoid prejudicing Jews. That doesn't sound clearly anti-Semitic. Why would Paul be so accomodating if the practice from this point taken from the Gospels was to oppose the Jews? And did not Christ offer seats at his kingdom in his Feast Metaphor, directly to the Jews? Wasn't it the Jews in that Metaphor to did not take full advantage of his offer forcing him to fill the remaining seats with common people off the street? That doesn't sound like Semitic Opposition to me. At the very least it's not clearly anti-Semitic.


I don't know if you would consider the Romans any better than the Nazis.
They were equally imperialistic and cruel. and yet they get away in the Gospels with a mere washing of hands.

Yet the bible as a whole including the New Testament holds that every nation on the Earth other than his anointed people with whom he had a covenant were Gentiles, meaning people of the nations. The Romans persecuted Christians and that too is written in the New Testament. Jesus lived under an occupied Isreal and the people were desperate for a Messiah to deliver them as had been done since Juda/Isreal's founding. They were so desperate they appointed their own Messiah just to lead their revolt against the Romans.

The wiki describes the church as one of the oldes "Institutions". And institution is an organization founded and united for a specific purpose. ~princeton.edu

supplanting the wiki.
An organization is
# arrangement: an organized structure for arranging or classifying;
#administration: the persons (or committees or departments etc.) who make up a body for the purpose of administering something;
#the activity or result of distributing or disposing persons or things properly or methodically;

Comparative organizational traits.
yes that is the definition of church as it is today..
study the bible and see what the definition is in the bible..


A head: The Pope
Districts: more than 2700 Diocese
Superviors: Biships
Further broken down by titles within parishes to priest and deacons. Seeing as these individuals are not merely members but part of administration to tend to billions the word organization would seem to apply.

i don't think the bible has anything to say on this..

yes that is the definition of church as it is today..
study the bible and see what the definition is in the bible..


i don't think the bible has anything to say on this..

The bible talks about servants and overseers in the New Testament. For one of them I remember there was certain qualifications.

people who are lovers of lieS & WHOM enjoy making up lies,

like to type little tiny teeny letters Don't be silly. Very few people will read more than a few lines of any of your posts. There are three reasons.

First, the formatting: varied colours, aggresive fonts, large unwieldy letters, clumsy combinations of the foregoing. In short, ugly and repulsive in appearance.

Second, the structure. There isn't one. You can't write coherently. You can't write grammatically. You can't write convincingly.

Third, the message. The message is clear. You are saying "I am demented, please ignore me." I intend to do so henceforth.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0117/1224287680501.html

"Vatican edict in 1997 rejected calls to report priests who abused"

What? Isn't there anyone to scream his head of "They are actually right, because everybody is having sex these days!" ?

What? Isn't there anyone to scream his head of "They are actually right, because everybody is having sex these days!" ?

They are actually right, because everybody is having sex these days!
Happy now?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0117/1224287680501.html

"Vatican edict in 1997 rejected calls to report priests who abused"


“bishops first, not policemen”.

This is disgusting!

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be in subjection tot he superior authorities for there is no authority except by God: the existing authorities stand placed in the their relative positions by God.

Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God:

Saquist,


Evolution can currently fit within Christian teaching, not as the method of creation but of adaptation after creation. So you see it's very pivotal to Christian Foundation.


Oh really, so how long was this adaptation process after creation ?

IOW, when were we created ?

People claim the pope X comunicated ....some priests who molested children..What a bunch of CONTINUEING lies...
But X comunicating someone from a pervert, un biblical freak shoW...or ROME....does not really mean X comunicating them,

Just like WHEn the BIBLE saYs ... to not Comunicate with the dead or any other Satanic practice .......

The catholic claims to follow the bible,,,,but then they spit on it....while they claim to follow .....

This is how catholics follow the pope........DONT QUESTION.....& U remain CATHOLIC.....

This is all it takes to be a catholic.......silence....& worship the ignorance
It means putting on a show....to look GOOD...

POPE DEMANDED. .~ ordered Raping PRIESTS~ handled with pontifical secrect. SILENCE../. Tell NO one


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_djV_NNX8

Y do Catholic rape FUNDIES

...Condone~& / SUPPORT, silencing CHILD Rape VICTIMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_djV_NNX8~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

PAPAL \DOC.~Priests~ordered~KEEp quieT.. / AcT~as your OWN JUDGE, & Jury http://www.richardsipe.com/Comments/2010-04-01-ratzinger.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PAPAL DOCCUMENT ALL..seX / Rape of PRIESTS~ should be upmost SECRECY, under pain of excomunation http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3157859.stm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vatican / POPE, ORDERED Silence in CHILD Rape restrained by Perpetual silence / secret ~under the penalty of excommunication.” ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catholic-church-denies-bishops-were-ordered-to-cover-up-sex-abuse-claims-536249.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9eSTwERKDA

http://www.suite101.com/content/german-priests-accused-of-sex-abuse-a211650



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vatican / POPE, ORDERED ~ Bishops To Cover Up Child Sex Abuse /_ Rape *

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=673
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ANOTHER disgusting Catholic pope of iggy... maniacs //wATCH ouT.... MUST SEE NOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqn_vL5d2y8&list=PL36196B4D5454E55E&index=57&playnext=2

Catholicsim is the gaTes of hell...

People claim the pope X comunicated ....some priests who molested children..What a bunch of CONTINUEING lies...
But X comunicating someone from a pervert, un biblical freak shoW...or ROME....does not really mean X comunicating them,

Just like WHEn the BIBLE saYs ... to not Comunicate with the dead or any other Satanic practice .......

The catholic claims to follow the bible,,,,but then they spit on it....while they claim to follow .....

This is how catholics follow the pope........DONT QUESTION.....& U remain CATHOLIC.....

This is all it takes to be a catholic.......silence....& worship the ignorance
It means putting on a show....to look GOOD...

POPE DEMANDED. .~ ordered Raping PRIESTS~ handled with pontifical secrect. SILENCE../. Tell NO one


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_djV_NNX8

Y do Catholic rape FUNDIES

...Condone~& / SUPPORT, silencing CHILD Rape VICTIMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_djV_NNX8~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

PAPAL \DOC.~Priests~ordered~KEEp quieT.. / AcT~as your OWN JUDGE, & Jury http://www.richardsipe.com/Comments/2010-04-01-ratzinger.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PAPAL DOCCUMENT ALL..seX / Rape of PRIESTS~ should be upmost SECRECY, under pain of excomunation http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3157859.stm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vatican / POPE, ORDERED Silence in CHILD Rape restrained by Perpetual silence / secret ~under the penalty of excommunication.” ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catholic-church-denies-bishops-were-ordered-to-cover-up-sex-abuse-claims-536249.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9eSTwERKDA

http://www.suite101.com/content/german-priests-accused-of-sex-abuse-a211650



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vatican / POPE, ORDERED ~ Bishops To Cover Up Child Sex Abuse /_ Rape *

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=673
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ANOTHER disgusting Catholic pope of iggy... maniacs //wATCH ouT.... MUST SEE NOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqn_vL5d2y8&list=PL36196B4D5454E55E&index=57&playnext=2

Catholicsim is the gaTes of hell...

if your are going to post your insanity could you at least do it in a way that doesn't make people want to rip out their eye balls you'd actually be able to you know a debate rather than come off as unstable

(shakes head)

You know when I can just pop open a catholic encyclopedia and list the contradictions of their own doctrine, the MONUMENTAL failures of morality and the endorsed killings despite the fact that Christianity under Christ is supposed to be the tolerant of others despite fundamental disagreement. Yet they used it as a blunt object through out time and today...the children scared by this religion... thousands if not Millions. COSMIC IS RIGHT. I have personally monitored the selling of Catholic property, the attenuation of it's members and the hard nosed atheist it's produced because the only truth they were convinced of is how wrong it was to trust a catholic priest.

...no accountability.
I hate what they've done. But I know it's just systemic. no you don't know jack. your just as nuts as crayon box in my opinion. neither know what the fuck your talking about when it comes to catholicism.

no you don't know jack. your just as nuts as crayon box in my opinion.

I do know Jack. Two of them.
Fortunately I evaluate facts not opinions.

The catholic church is the enemy to the Child.....

CHILDREN are defenceless

The Jews can defend themselves Today.....

But children can not defend themselves,.

THEY are innocenT , virgin, UN KNOWING & clean from perversity ...in many many sences...

But just because the Jews can defend themselves BY
acTive reminding the HORRID the CHURCH of ROME has acTed out on JEWS

WHO SIMPLY disagreed.....Jews do not aGREE with catholic Teaching & they speak about it ..

Rome does not like this....

Pius IX, declared in 1871 that by rejecting Christianity, Jews had become 'dogs'

and that 'we have today in Rome unfortunately too many of these dogs, and we hear them barking in all the streets,

and going around molesting people everywhere.'

Pius IX's antisemitism was not confined to his vivid invective. He was also a passionate In 1871, addressing a group of Catholic women, POPE Pius said that
the Jews ''.... failure to believe, they have become dogs'' (emphasis in the original.).

''We have today in Rome unfortunately too many of these dogs,
and we hear them barking

in all the streets, and going around molesting people everywhere.''
This is the pope beatified by John Paul II in 2000.

Catholic FATHER John Chrysostom - 344-407 A.D., ,"The Jews, worse than wild beasts ... lower THAN VILE animals.

AT the level of the lusty goat and the pig.

I hate the Jews ... I hate the Synagogue ... it is the duty of all Christians to hate the Jews.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sourc...tom-jews6.html

Jerome - satanic Father of the Cat holic church Produced the L
atin translation of the bible which became the ROMISH 4 th century bible.

He said ,

"Jews are incapable of understanding scripture

and should be severely punished until they confess the true faith

In 1233, Pope Gregory IX satanic Father of the Cat holic holic church established the papal Inquisition South France & Northern Italy To convert of Jews to CATHOLICISM.


the Inquisition, brought on a wave of persecution. Of HORRIBLE HORID .
. Torture Of millions HORRIBLE HORID ..

Torture was approved by Pope Innocent IV

The SATANIC Catholic Church launched nine holy wars 1096-1272.

The purpose of these wars was to march to the Holy Land of Palestine and liberate it from infidels."Along the way, the crusaders massacred all "infidels" in their path who refused to be baptized on the spot to Cat holicism

. Thousands of Jews were massacred in Germany and France. 1205:

Pope Innocent III satanic Father wrote that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord..


.As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire,
they shall be slaves of Christians

Pius IX declared ...'The Jews -- eternal insolent children, obstinate, dirty, thieves, liars, ignoramuses, pests and the scourge of those near

and far . . a .. barbarian invasion by an enemy race, hostile to Christianity and to society in general.''Those words appeared in news papers in Rome Dec. 1840, with 36 articles written over 40 months in Civilta Cattolica, the journal Pope Pius IX had ordered the Jesuits to publish in Rome -

-Pius IX In 1867 canonized Peter Arbues, a 15th-century inquisitor who forcibly converted Jews
Garry Wills is the author of ''A Necessary Evil: A History of American Distrust of Government'' and ''Papal Sin.''

1593, Pope Clement VIII declared that Jews commanded to live in the ghettoes .....hose living elsewhere were forced out.

Carrying their possessions on their backs,

the Jews made their way to those places where they were still permitted

Following the 1775 papal order, ~~

JEWS remained WHO outside the ghetto could neither live in the same house with Catholics "nor speak familiarly to them."Everyone was able to tell who was a Jew, because, in another
sixteenth-century papal provision reiterated in the 1775 edict,

Jews were required to wear a special badge on their clothes.

HITLER coppied this CATHOLIC Tradition / forcing JEWS to wear a BADGE .

"Jews of both sexes must wear a yellow-colored sign, by which they are distinguished from

others, and they must always wear it at all times and places, both in the
ghettoes, and when they are outside of them."

The men were to wear the yellow sign on their hat, and women on their uncovered hair. To prevent the Jews from giving themselves airs,

they were forbidden from riding in carriages or buggies.

Jews were not allowed to keep shops or warehouses outside the ghetto/..

This has been Going on for 2000 yrs....
THIS IS JUST a tiny SMALL eXample of Hate & vile treatment of HEBREWS by the ROMAN tic Catholic church


Children should be supervised WHEN in the company of these demons..
If you must allow your principles to lower to aTTend Catholic Pornea . & pagan Roman- tic blasphemous saTire

WATCH YOUR CHILDREN at every MOMENT....

The catholic church is the enemy to the Child.....

CHILDREN are defenceless

The Jews can defend themselves Today.....

But children can not defend themselves,.

THEY are innocenT , virgin, UN KNOWING & clean from perversity ...in many many sences...

But just because the Jews can defend themselves BY
acTive reminding the HORRID the CHURCH of ROME has acTed out on JEWS

WHO SIMPLY disagreed.....Jews do not aGREE with catholic Teaching & they speak about it ..

Rome does not like this....

Pius IX, declared in 1871 that by rejecting Christianity, Jews had become 'dogs'

and that 'we have today in Rome unfortunately too many of these dogs, and we hear them barking in all the streets,

and going around molesting people everywhere.'

Pius IX's antisemitism was not confined to his vivid invective. He was also a passionate In 1871, addressing a group of Catholic women, POPE Pius said that
the Jews ''.... failure to believe, they have become dogs'' (emphasis in the original.).

''We have today in Rome unfortunately too many of these dogs,
and we hear them barking

in all the streets, and going around molesting people everywhere.''
This is the pope beatified by John Paul II in 2000.

Catholic FATHER John Chrysostom - 344-407 A.D., ,"The Jews, worse than wild beasts ... lower THAN VILE animals.

AT the level of the lusty goat and the pig.

I hate the Jews ... I hate the Synagogue ... it is the duty of all Christians to hate the Jews.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sourc...tom-jews6.html

Jerome - satanic Father of the Cat holic church Produced the L
atin translation of the bible which became the ROMISH 4 th century bible.

He said ,

"Jews are incapable of understanding scripture

and should be severely punished until they confess the true faith

In 1233, Pope Gregory IX satanic Father of the Cat holic holic church established the papal Inquisition South France & Northern Italy To convert of Jews to CATHOLICISM.


the Inquisition, brought on a wave of persecution. Of HORRIBLE HORID .
. Torture Of millions HORRIBLE HORID ..

Torture was approved by Pope Innocent IV

The SATANIC Catholic Church launched nine holy wars 1096-1272.

The purpose of these wars was to march to the Holy Land of Palestine and liberate it from infidels."Along the way, the crusaders massacred all "infidels" in their path who refused to be baptized on the spot to Cat holicism

. Thousands of Jews were massacred in Germany and France. 1205:

Pope Innocent III satanic Father wrote that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord..


.As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire,
they shall be slaves of Christians

Pius IX declared ...'The Jews -- eternal insolent children, obstinate, dirty, thieves, liars, ignoramuses, pests and the scourge of those near

and far . . a .. barbarian invasion by an enemy race, hostile to Christianity and to society in general.''Those words appeared in news papers in Rome Dec. 1840, with 36 articles written over 40 months in Civilta Cattolica, the journal Pope Pius IX had ordered the Jesuits to publish in Rome -

-Pius IX In 1867 canonized Peter Arbues, a 15th-century inquisitor who forcibly converted Jews
Garry Wills is the author of ''A Necessary Evil: A History of American Distrust of Government'' and ''Papal Sin.''

1593, Pope Clement VIII declared that Jews commanded to live in the ghettoes .....hose living elsewhere were forced out.

Carrying their possessions on their backs,

the Jews made their way to those places where they were still permitted

Following the 1775 papal order, ~~

JEWS remained WHO outside the ghetto could neither live in the same house with Catholics "nor speak familiarly to them."Everyone was able to tell who was a Jew, because, in another
sixteenth-century papal provision reiterated in the 1775 edict,

Jews were required to wear a special badge on their clothes.

HITLER coppied this CATHOLIC Tradition / forcing JEWS to wear a BADGE .

"Jews of both sexes must wear a yellow-colored sign, by which they are distinguished from

others, and they must always wear it at all times and places, both in the
ghettoes, and when they are outside of them."

The men were to wear the yellow sign on their hat, and women on their uncovered hair. To prevent the Jews from giving themselves airs,

they were forbidden from riding in carriages or buggies.

Jews were not allowed to keep shops or warehouses outside the ghetto/..

This has been Going on for 2000 yrs....
THIS IS JUST a tiny SMALL eXample of Hate & vile treatment of HEBREWS by the ROMAN tic Catholic church


Children should be supervised WHEN in the company of these demons..
If you must allow your principles to lower to aTTend Catholic Pornea . & pagan Roman- tic blasphemous saTire

WATCH YOUR CHILDREN at every MOMENT....

and the hate, lies, and removal of historical context continue.



hey crayon box here is an idea before you continue to post here get you color choice, spelling, and grammer at an adult level. you post read like a bigots manifesto as written by a 6 year old.

historical context is quiet clear

reX continues to tell Proven facT..

Catholislamics make their complainTs

But they can FIND no fault or error in a single dot or crossed T or even a mispelled word. Or disprove a single fact reX has proven CLEARLY

They like to change the topiX & Thow little fits of rage throwing dung all over the map and hisTory books.......

...
....The children are speaKing out...This most vile and paganisTic demon possesed pope has been sUMMONED to apear in 4 court cases of the LAW of Ireland & the USA..

He is guilTy as the demons in hell......

He should be tried in a court of law Convicted & eXecuted for participating in the covering up & protecting & ignoring & hiding of THOUSANDS of little innocent babies & young boys and innocent little girls

being systematically reped again again again again and again..BY satans priests and bishops//

The Catholislamic lies are being eXXXposed....CHILDREN are speaking OUT about their rape...and abuse.

The world is learning about catholislamic teaching that spiTs on Gods word

spiTs on Jews, spiTs on ChrisTians & more importantly Little innocent children.While their pope kisses The Quran in the shadow of hells flames The caTholic church is the very GATES of hell.....

It's nearly all copy and paste anyway.
Or, in his case, copy paste and colour in.
Though some of the more deranged stuff is added by himself.

Hey, crayon box.
Print this off and colour it in.
It might keep you quiet for half an hour.
http://www.boowakwala.com/printable/printable-coloring-book.gif

historical context is quiet clear

reX continues to tell Proven facT..

Catholislamics make their complainTs

But they can FIND no fault or error in a single dot or crossed T or even a mispelled word. Or disprove a single fact reX has proven CLEARLY

They like to change the topiX & Thow little fits of rage throwing dung all over the map and hisTory books.......

...
....The children are speaKing out...This most vile and paganisTic demon possesed pope has been sUMMONED to apear in 4 court cases of the LAW of Ireland & the USA..

He is guilTy as the demons in hell......

He should be tried in a court of law Convicted & eXecuted for participating in the covering up & protecting & ignoring & hiding of THOUSANDS of little innocent babies & young boys and innocent little girls

being systematically reped again again again again and again..BY satans priests and bishops//

The Catholislamic lies are being eXXXposed....CHILDREN are speaking OUT about their rape...and abuse.

The world is learning about catholislamic teaching that spiTs on Gods word

spiTs on Jews, spiTs on ChrisTians & more importantly Little innocent children.While their pope kisses The Quran in the shadow of hells flames The caTholic church is the very GATES of hell.....



Your ignorance and hatred is outstanding. Your a joke who can't even write like some in in middle school. Do us all a favor and take crayon box and sit in the corner and let people who you know can actually think and process information( your laundry list of idiotic statements about cathlocism makes me pretty sure your incapabale of processing information in a manner condusive to intelligent debate.) debate.

I do know Jack. Two of them.
Fortunately I evaluate facts not opinions.

Your joking right?


trying to rewrite the history of christian theology and pretend creationism is valid and evelution isn't factual is evaluating opinions.

Don't be silly. Very few people will read more than a few lines of any of your posts. There are three reasons.

First, the formatting: varied colours, aggresive fonts, large unwieldy letters, clumsy combinations of the foregoing. In short, ugly and repulsive in appearance.

Second, the structure. There isn't one. You can't write coherently. You can't write grammatically. You can't write convincingly.

Third, the message. The message is clear. You are saying "I am demented, please ignore me." I intend to do so henceforth.
not to mention painful. I've after replying to a string of his posts have had to pop an IB profen because of the headache they induce.

The facts remain facts...

YOU fail to go to a single point in a single post BRING it UP...and find a single fault or error ..


That is what matters......to honest people......

Your accusations & claims are empty lies...reX has proven documentation & facts....

SOMETHING you fail to provide for a single claim.....u make....



go to a single point in a single post BRING it UP...and find a single fault or error ..

U will never because everything reX has said is truth FACT *& even more....

it is proving you to be a liar

its as simple as that......U HAVE NO SUBJECT...

.your only choice is to distract & change the topic......

Finished already?
That was quick.
Try not to go over the edges.
Here's another.
http://www.guelphpolice.com/assets/WebContentPictures/icons_images/pcherman.jpg

[B][COLOR="Black"][SIZE="3"]The facts remain facts... true and the fact is your nuts.


YOU fail to go to a single point in a single post BRING it UP...and find a single fault or error .. why should I treat your ideas seriously when you refuse to actually present any ideas that aren't pure bullshit and present them in a respectable form.



Your accusations & claims are empty lies... I haven't made any claims other than your a fucking nut and present ideas like a 3 years old.
reX has proven documentation & facts.... No you have a list of quotes with out context interspered with your delusions


SOMETHING you fail to provide for a single claim.....u make.... all the evidence needed is a quick look at your posts



U will never because everything reX has said is truth FACT *& even more.... No I won't believe it because it isn't true or out of context.

a list of your lies that your too fucking deranged to understand are insane or stupid.
that the pope is a demon
that catholicism is not christian
that catholicism is satanic
that catholicism is pagan
that catholicism and Islam are the same
that everything that comes out of the holy see(not the vatican) is by the pope
that catholic use necromancy


it is proving you to be a liar I have said no word that isn't true


its as simple as that......U HAVE NO SUBJECT...

.your only choice is to distract & change the topic...... Distract how could I distract from your posts they a more flamboyant than the vegas strip


If your going to talk about catholicism and its problems do so in a intelligent and helpful manner not as a raving fucking lunatic








also how the hell can you shorten you handle to rex when there isn't an X in it?

true and the fact is your nuts.


Why are you encouraging him by discussion?
Do you expect to make some headway with him?
It's Trollery.
Put him on ignore.

I am not offended by him at all, he's mad and to be pitied, but I wonder why the other Bible Christians on here have said nothing to condemn his sick views.
Do you count yourselves with him?

Catholics put people DOWN, mock them, call them crude, diatribe, schizophrenic.

Catholic do every single trick in the BOOK, to divert, TWIST & lie To deceive *& ignore the facts ....


The fact is

There has not been a SINGLE Non~Catholic Saint ..Since the very BEGINNING of Catholicsims invention ..

NOT EVEN~~~ 1.

NOT a single person has been ACCEPTED nor ADMITED into ROMES Roman~tic heaven

WHY ?

Catholic popes & priests have told YOU eXactly WHY..


'Heretics (those who are NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH or who DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) worship a GOD WHO IS A LIAR, & a CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.'

St. Augustine, (quoted in 'Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca', by Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 42:207).


************************************************** *******************

~~~~~~~~~IF U AIN'T CATHOLIC----- U AINT EVEN .... serving ... JESUS / GOD ~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, Jews or heretics CANNOT SHARE IN ETERNAL life & will GO INTO THE EVERLASTING FIRE which was prepared for the devil & his angels, UNLESS THEY ARE JOINED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Pope Eugenius I've, in 'Bull of Union with the Copts', Council of Florence, Session 11, on February 4, 1442.

************************************************** *******************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~IF U AINT CATHOLIC----- U AINT IN HEAVEN~~~~~~~

MISGUIDED PEOPLE attempt TO PERSUADE themselves & others THAT MEN ARE NOT SAVED ONLY IN THE CATHOLIC RELIGION, but that even heretics may attain eternal life.'

Pope Gregory XVI, Summo Iugiter Studio (On Mixed Marriages), Encyclical promulgated on May 27, 1832, #2.


************************************************** *******************

~~~~~~~~~IF U AINT CATHOLIC----- U AINT IN HEAVEN~~~~~~~~~~~



'HERETICS do NOT have THE SAME GOD, the SAME CHRIST as CATHOLICS.'

Tertullian: (Patrolo-giae Cursus Completus: Series Graca, Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 1:1216)

~~~~~~~~~IF U AIN'T CATHOLIC----- U AINT EVEN .... serving ... JESUS / GOD ~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


************************************************** *******************

- HERETICS are to be CLASSED with THIEVES and MURDERERS. ( Pope Innocent I've

'Ad Extirpanda,' cf. ISABELLA OF SPAIN, Dr. Wm. Thos. Walsh, London: Sheed & Ward, 1935, p.239)

'HE WHO HAS NOT the CHURCH for his Mother CANNOT have GOD as his FATHER.'

St. Cyprian: (Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca, Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 4:502)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


“It is necessary to salvation that every man should submit to the Pope.” (Boniface VIII Unum Sanctum, 1303.)

~~~~~~So we see in REALITY
WHAT CATHOLICS REALLY really teach & LIVE & PRACTICE is that ~~~

******~~~~~~If u aint A CATHOLIC, u AINT GONNA BE in Heaven

& u aint GONNA EVER, NEVER, NEVER ever EVER be considered a saint

tHATS Y there are no non catholic saints.... NON CATHOLIC ARE NOT in heaven..,.,,,,.....

catholics are double talking & they obviously dont mind lying

ACCUSING others of doing & being ... eXactly what they THEMSELVES are & the very crude, diatribe & schizophrenic things that They DO

it is so sad

****************************************~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


,
ALL HERETICS, are assuredly to BE PUNISHED with suitable penalties OVER & ABOVE the PENALTIES imposed At the council of Ferrara*, ALL HERETICS, together TO receive their DESERVED PINISHMENT with Korah, & Dathan &...'… note ~~~{ THESE GUYS were swallowed alive up in a pit & died }

Pope Eugenius I've, in Decree of the Council of Florence Against the Synod at Basel, Council of Florence, Session 7, on September 4, 1439.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(* The Penalties of expelling HERETICS who have not left the city within the said thirty days ARE TO BE EJECTED OUT OF THE CITY... DENIED them all COMMERCE & all articles NEEDED FOR HUMAN USE..

..If there are SOME WHO IGNORE these ORDERS of ours, DARING perhaps TO CONVEY ………, since it is written that THE RIGHTEOUS PLUNDERED THE UNGODLY, such persons may be DESPOILED without penalty by any of the faithful & tHEIR GOODS SHALL BE CEDED TO THE FIRST TAKERS.

'Pope Eugenius I've, in Ecclesiastical Penalties Against Members of the Basel Synod, Council of Ferrara, Session 31, February 15, 1438.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'...schismatics, blasphemers & as HERETICS, to BE PUNISHED as TRAITORS, & to have incurred the aforesaid censures & PENALTIES, & others TO BE INFLICTED, according as it shall seem good & justice shall persuade...'

Pope Eugenius I've, in Monition of the Council of Florence Against the Antipope Felix V, Session 9, on March 23, 1440.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Heretics bring SENTENCE upon themselves since they by their own choice WITHDRAW from the CHURCH, a withdrawal which, since they are aware of it, constitutes DAMNATION.'

St. Jerome: 'Commentary on Titus 3:10–11.'







CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION # 841... 'The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the creator...,.IN THE FIRST PLACE amongst whom ARE '''THE MUSLIMS;...

...MUSLIMS; profess to hold the faith of abraham, & together WITH US [CATHOLICS]...THEY ADORE the ONE, merciful GOD,

..thats why the pope can kiss and stroke & BOW DOWN TO the unholy quran

Popes claim in catholic catechism 2 N.D. Editiion. # 841 that''

muslims;...these profess to hold the faith of abraham, and together with us [catholics]...they adore the one, merciful god, mankind's judge on the last day

MAY 1985 SATANS POPE John Paul II repeats ROMES DECLARATION TO AUDIENCE OF THOUSANDS

THE POPE said: “CATHOLICS Muslims, WE have MANY THINGS IN COMMON as BELIEVERS and as human beings...WE BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD

http://www.letusreason.org/RC25.htm & http://focusonjerusalem.com/tiesthatbind.html
,,,THE CATHOLIC GOD IS THE MUSLIM GOD

THATS WHY YOUR POPE CAN KISS & STROKE AND BOW TO THE UNHOLY QURAN

http://images.google.com/images?q=photos%20%20of%20pope%20kissing%20quran&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as LOST. Headed for hell…

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… ~~~as DESERVING of whatever punishment the POPES can manipulate their frenzied mobs of Catholics to perform…~~~at whatever point or bowel of history at any given time…possible.

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as serving ANOTHER EVIL JESUS….

Rome SAYS

'Heretics / NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ….. DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) & worship a GOD WHO IS A LIAR, & CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.'

BUT Muslims & ISLAM //OOH they ALL SERVE OUR GOD…..and we Kiss and BOW down to their QURAN
*& service ALLAH

THIS IS ROMES …ATTACK ON THE BIBLE AND ITS believers,,, [ CHRISTS CHURCH ‘ ]]] contradiction,,,IS,,manifested


poison
of popes..has infected other catholics..

HERE is more of their hatefull words of wisdom...




IF ANYONE DOES NOT with MIND and LIPS REJECT and ANATHEMATIZE all abominable HERETICS together with their impious writings, even to the single least portion, let such a person be CONDEMNED.

Pope St. Martin I - (Canon 18, Lateran Council, DNZ: 271-272)

- Heretics are Antichrists and adversaries of Christ.

VII Council of Carthage (PL 4:1051)

'HE who HAS NOT the Church for his Mother CANNOT have GOD as HIS FATHER.'

St. Cyprian: (Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca, Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 4:502)






Of what avail is it, children, if Protestants lead naturally pure, honest lives, yet lack the Holy Ghost? They may well say: 'We do no harm; we lead good lives'; but, if THEY DO NOT ENTER the true fold of Christ, all their protestations are in vain.

(St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, TRAVELS, pp.84, 71).

PEOPLE often SAY, 'IT IS BETTER to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.' That is NOT TRUE! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A BAD CATHOLIC remains a child of the family, ………….

A BAD CATHOLIC is NEARER TO GOD than A PROTESTANT, for he is A MEMBER of the household, whereas THE HERETIC IS NOT. And how HARD IT IS to make him become one!

(St. Peter Julian Eymard -THE REAL PRESENCE, NY: Blessed Sacrament Fathers, 1938, p.245).

What Protestant Belief In Christ is - .(PROTESTANTS) NEVER had any DIVINE FAITH IN CHRIST. …& HAS NO MORE THE DOC-TRINE OF JESUS CHRIST AND OF HIS CHURCH, THAN THE PAGANS, JEWS AND TURK'S have.' 'He is' says Jesus Christ, 'a heathen and publican.''

Fr. Michael Müller, C.SS.R., 'The Catholic Dogma,' 1888: '

that the pope is a demon who belong in prison for covering up the rape & torture of thousands of little innocent children

THIS denomic liar has been asked to apear in 4 lawsuits in the USA & Ireland...

He refuses to even come to his apointment... !

.. & you still defend him..! .because you are liars and delusional flthy rape fundies who should be eXXXposed

& that is eXactly what reX is doing & WILL CONTINUE to do........!

U are eXXposed ...,....and found guity of funding & condoning RAPE.......Someday this pope & YOUr filthy acts,,,,...will answer to the God of the bible & not allah....the God of islam,..../ Lucifer His God




Go to reXes personal website http://firexlionchomp.web.officelive.com/sitemap.aspx

PROVING the pope HIMSELF has commited rape by commanding silence of rape cases under threat of eXcomunication.v !

reX provided facts.....YOUR opinions are crushed with facts !

that u IGNORE . DO NOT DISCUSS & supress..BEC u are liars



that catholicism is not christian Catholicism is Catholic...noT even CLOSE to christian It has

rejected & denied Jesus as the only mediator & AS THE BIBLE COMMANDS

THE ONLY 1 single spirit whereby we access the Father BY 1 spirit.. Unto the FATHER

THE BIBLE IS VERY CLEAR...

Catholics have no biblical christian teaching,,They spit on the bible.

catholicism is satanic & Catholics are THE MOST.... PAGAN people on the planet ........................... of all time........................There is none NO other CULT WHATSOEVER on the FACE OF THE entire EARTH....... At any place & at any TIME ....... known to mankind

WHOLY & Diligently, its roman tic pagan Propagators, ~~~~~~ Wait around WATCHING for EXCREMENTS TO OOZE out from the orifices of their pagan idols they serve.
They dress up these vain idols of the PEOPLE they pray to.

requesting saving Graces .. & Spiritual HELP .... AS if
they were PRAYING to God HIMSELF

catholicism and Islam DECLARE they BOTH WORSHIP the same eXact god

Their pope Kisses the quran,

Declaring VERBALLY that Catholics & MUSLIMS have many things in common WE BOTH WORSHIP the same god.

Catholics Declare MARY is blessing & prophecy to ISLAM

catholic use necromancy THE practice of COMUNICATING to the dead


requesting Good luck, Graces, requesting, protections, PROCTECTINGS & OMENS & SUPERSTITIOUS help FROM THE DEAD.

They pray to the dead... while a WHOLE MARKET./

... SELLING goes on WORLDWIDE ......... for a PROFIT AS MERCHANDISE ...

THE IDOL OF the dead person they ARE ASKING FOR HELP FROM....////

..This iS ROMAN TIC ....... paganism .....FROM ROME

its all proven in facts ........ WHAT Do YOU DENY ? ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRybe5wxIq0

U have Got to go see this horror of Torture and rape of little kids...

This roman catholic disgusting organization is being eXXposed in ireland & BRITIAN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRybe5wxIq0

[B][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Black"]Catholics put people DOWN, mock them, call them crude, diatribe, schizophrenic.

Catholic do every single trick in the BOOK, to divert, TWIST & lie To deceive *& ignore the facts .... that called religion



The fact is

There has not been a SINGLE Non~Catholic Saint ..Since the very BEGINNING of Catholicsims invention .. is your complaint no non catholics have been beatified as catholic saints or that no other faith has saints too very different arguments. one is stupid and the other is wrong


NOT EVEN~~~ 1.

NOT a single person has been ACCEPTED nor ADMITED into ROMES Roman~tic heaven

WHY ?

Catholic popes & priests have told YOU eXactly WHY.. actually as a confirmed catholic I can tell you your wrong. it was said during mine conformation that just being a good person nets you heaven

reX provided facts.....YOUR opinions are crushed with facts !

that u IGNORE . DO NOT DISCUSS & supress..BEC u are liars nothing you have said comes close to factual. your rants are opinion and not well thought out. your childish and have yet to say anything meaningful


that catholicism is not christian Catholicism is Catholic...noT even CLOSE to christian It has aren't you jewish why the hell are you repeating protestant propaganda?

Angus dog food
Delivered by a Highland Terrier in a broad Scottish accent:
This the one you wanted. It’s all meat, a real treat.
Bonio: 1970s
Bonio for your dog [more]
Voiceover: Bonio — the biscuit that thinks it’s a bone.
Bounce dog food
There’s more dog taste to the ounce in Bounce — the tasty, meaty dog food!
Cupboard Love cat food: 1976
New Cupboard Love … what the well-cared-for cat has for dinner!
Hunky Chunks
Hunky Chunks. Better for your dog than fresh meat"
Kattomeat (now Whiskas)
If she likes it, I like it!

"I'm wunnerin if ye wid hae sic a thing as a balloon about ye?"
....
"Whit for dae ye want a balloon?"
Winnie-the-Pooh keeked aboot tae mak shair naebody wis luggin in,
pit his loof tae his mooth, and said in a laich whusper: "Hinny!"
"But ye dinna get hinny wi balloons!"
"Ah dae," said Pooh.
...
"Wid the bees no see you unner the balloon?"
"Mibbes aye, mibbes naw," said Winnie-the-Pooh.
"Ye canna aye tell wi bees."

More Cut and paste. With

James' father was Lord Darnley (Henry Stewa

rt) who had been killed in a suspici

ous explosion, the rumor being that the explosion was cause

d by Mary and Lord Bothwell, whom she would later marry. At thirteen months when Mary was for

ced to abdicate in favor of James, he became the K

ing of Scotland and never saw his mother again, although at one po

int before her execution he did make some contact during an ill-hat

ched plot to restore her to the throne.

The hardest part of dealing with liars is the never ending circle of lies that never end

THE FACT REMAINS,....YOU can not PROVIDE a single Claim that reX has posted AS A LIE....or incorrect...

YOU STILL HAVE FAILED TO PRODUCE evidence for a single claim U MAKE...


LIKE the claim that U MAKE """" no other faith has saints """


THESE stupid deliberate remarks that you liars are making are proven to be incorrect & A LIE



THERE ARE OTHER SAINTS IN OTHER RELIGIONS


HINDU has saints.......BUDDISM has saints The Bible calls All believers SAINTS
The bible does not command people to eXclude people as saints just bec theY do not follow the teachings of a MAN in ROME...
CATHOLIC TEACHING has been IF YOU AINT CATHOLIC...U AINT GOING TO HEAVEN


& U AINT ever never NEVER gonna be a SAINT..

THERE ARE NO......caTholic SAINTS


NOT even 1...........this is proof ....>FACTUAL THINGS..

sadly U HAVE NOT provided a single fact...in all your mockery, filthy lies & DIVERSIONS atempting to saY nothing other that YOU dont believe the bible.. do not like the truth & FACTS...
U are LIARS & U REMAIN in lies.

Please don't respond to Reteryalizer. Eventually he will go away or be banned. Responding to him just feeds his fantasy.

OMG the captain has been infected!

OMG the captain has been infected!

its satire

The hardest part of dealing with liars is the never ending circle of lies that never end

THE FACT REMAINS,....YOU can not PROVIDE a single Claim that reX has posted AS A LIE....or incorrect...

YOU STILL HAVE FAILED TO PRODUCE evidence for a single claim U MAKE...


LIKE the claim that U MAKE """" no other faith has saints """


THESE stupid deliberate remarks that you liars are making are proven to be incorrect & A LIE



THERE ARE OTHER SAINTS IN OTHER RELIGIONS


HINDU has saints.......BUDDISM has saints The Bible calls All believers SAINTS
The bible does not command people to eXclude people as saints just bec theY do not follow the teachings of a MAN in ROME...
CATHOLIC TEACHING has been IF YOU AINT CATHOLIC...U AINT GOING TO HEAVEN


& U AINT ever never NEVER gonna be a SAINT..

THERE ARE NO......caTholic SAINTS


NOT even 1...........this is proof ....>FACTUAL THINGS..

sadly U HAVE NOT provided a single fact...in all your mockery, filthy lies & DIVERSIONS atempting to saY nothing other that YOU dont believe the bible.. do not like the truth & FACTS...
U are LIARS & U REMAIN in lies.

you truly know no bounds when it comes to making your self look like a foold do you.

The Catholic Church was not interested in facts in its haste to cover-up details of my abuser and his 50 known victims.

At no stage did they offer any apology, acknowledg*ement or assistance to his victims, while doing everything possible to help him escape justice.

Then bullied us into silence, ignored our suffering and treated us as liars and troublemak*ers.


This is the words of a suffering victim / Living in torment & the nightmare of the horrible effectsof this PAGAN political, emotional & spiritual whore .

The catholic church is YET IN ANOTHER N E W headline....

THE HEADLINE READS[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Vatican Warned Irish Bishops Not To Report Abuse

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/18/133015611/vatican-warned-irish-bishops-not-to-report-abuse



THE USA TODAY HEADLINE IS HERE

Vatican Warned Irish Bishops Not To Report Abuse



http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-01-18-sex-abuse-Irish-Vatican-18_ST_N.htm


Vatican Warned Irish Bishops Not To Report Abuse



THE NEW YORK TIMES HEADLINE IS HERE


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/01/18/world/europe/AP-EU-Ireland-Catholic-Abuse.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


Vatican Warned Irish Bishops Not To Report Abuse



THE STAR TRIBUBE HEADLINE IS HERE
http://www.startribune.com/world/114105409.html

yOU FILTHY RAPE FUNDIES DONT REALIZE...... U can read all the NEWS PAPER headlines U CAN go & READ THE damn letter the VATICAN sent out FORCING people

UNDER THREAT & danger of loosing JOBS & their place in their church...

U can hear it bradcasted from every mountial top.....BUT U Are not interested in FACTS....U are lovers of lies & U are filthy sick catholics who hate truth ...

But this is recorded in heaven,,,SOMEDAY the Roman catholic whore wil answer..

U CAN BE SURE,,,,,she tried to cover UP her involvment IN MURDERING JEWS & SUPPORTING HITLER,....

eXacTly the same way.......

OMG the captain has been infected!

I bet retryalizer can't match it.
I am the best at colour crayoning. Admit it!

I bet retryalizer can't match it.
I am the best at colour crayoning. Admit it!

Maybe so Capt. K...

He can't match your mastery with the crayon...But, you can't match his mastery of spamming complete bullshit.. He has that down pat.

You've painted up your lips an rolled and curled your tinted hair.
Ruby are you contemplating going out somewhere.?
The Shadow on the wall tells me the sun is going down. -
Oh Ruby.
Don't take your love to town.

It wasn't me that started that old crazy asian war.
But I was proud to go and do my patriotic chore.
And yes, it's true that I'm not the man I used to be.
Oh Ruby I still need some company.

Its hard to love a man whose legs are bent and paralysed.
And THE WANTS AND the needs of a woman your age, Ruby I realize.

OK...I stand corrected...:p

There is a lot of money to be made, by lawyers, because of the church's legal connection to pedophilia. So the upper brass of the church needs to be very careful, it is not helping the lawyers, more than it is helping the victims.

The Church sees wolves and sheep, nipping at the church's heals, with justice only due to the sheep, but not the wolves. If there were not as many wolves to fend off, the church could be more open in its discussions.

There has been ALOT of money losT, over 2 million dollars alone in the USA and sTill climbing

MORE money will be comming ouT of the Roman~Tic Rape fundie instution In the neXt 5 ~ 10 yrs .....


The Rape VICTIMS of Ireland, Britain, Scottland & others are ready to receiVe their paYment and have their torment, pain, nighTmares and silenced cries heard by someone who cares for the firsT time in their entire lives....

It SURE has NOT been anyone in the Roman~Tic Scattholic rape Fundie institution that has made a single move to hear their pain, STOP the abuse and uncover the sYstem seT uP bY the vaTican to Hide . & protect the RAPIST & MolesTer ....from the very last orgasm....to the last shreaded doccument...
So the upper brass of the church needs to be very careful, in backtracking its own covered & hidden prints .....

The Catholic Church has been caught and we have the fingerprints

And they put more finger prints on the RAPE scene by trying to remove & clean the eXisting fingerprints....
it is not helping the lawyers, more than it is helping the victims.

The laWyers are there to Collect eVidence...... They dont CONVICT priests JUST on the word of mouth.....of some person off the street......

There is a paper~ Trail....a LINE of other collaborative, combined, joint, eVidence of victims where these Catholic rapists have been moving from place to place to place RAPING HUNDREDS & hundreds .....Analy, Oraly spiritually & emotionally DISTROYING ther very souls and hearts. ...

RIPPING their hearts out all swept under the rugs of the Catholic Church.....

JUSTICE would be TEARING down the VATICAN DOORS...SEIZING every single computer / EVERY doccument EVERY single thing ALL information


Getting to the bottom of the investigation

4 lawsuits .....of the pope being SUMMONED to apear in a courT of law FOR QUESTIONING.......he should be tried in a court of law.. convicted just on the letters alone....he sent COMMANDING total secrecy

& COMMANDING for the bishops & PRIESTS to acT as their OWN Judge, Jury & Justice of rape cases
THAT is the facts.....SEIZING every single computer in the vatican .

Declaring it a crime scene due to a proven mountian of evidence of delberate aTTempts to silence & conTrol the flow of information of crimes against little innocent children eho were RAPED by the thousands.......IN SILENCE ORDERED under the pain of eXcomunication.....& physical termination of church position & spiritual harrasment & spiritual rape as wel/

U people aint nuthing but a bunch of delusional freaks & liars....WHO KNOW not a damn thing about the bible...
If u knew Jesus or abraham or Gideon or Paul or peter ....U would hate them.... Just like U hate the BIBLE.......

& u are indeed liars...& your lies are being eXXXposed ..So mock on

Its all u can do...make mockery of your siTuation... projecting your filthy sTupidity & self bathing ignorance upon reX


.""""""" If there were not as many wolves to fend off, the church could be more open in its discussions """""

The vatican is being opened LIKE the little innocent childrens MOUTHS, ANUS, & HANDS & HEARTS that were forced OPEN by this filthy culT.

discussion ? THE Vatican has nothing to discuss...

it is getting ready to burned & eaten


The catholics will Symbolicaly make the harlot desolate and naked, shall eat her flesh and shall burn her up with fire..The vatican is going DOWN & reX is now standing by calling for the SEIZING every single computer / EVERY doccument EVERY single thing / ALL information

THESE filthy perverts claim theY are eaTing the FLESH & blood of the Lord Jesus Christ...

WHILE Jesus is VOMITING them out of his MOUTH....

as the bible declares in the book of REV,,,, They think its a joke & something to play with......

ITS TIME for TRIAL......... the evidence shows you all to be liars....

all u are doing is projecting the pain this church has caused,,,,,......as if the church is a victim..

THIS IS THE WAY u work....u are demented liars who are full of evil.

I'm tempted to take you off ignore, because I know how much you appreciate good crayoning.
I won't though.
Yes, it did take a while, and yes, it does look nice.
Thanks for your support.

I think I just had a seizure looking at this page.

Surely, Saquist, it is not just the colouring and font size you disagree with?

The Church sees wolves and sheep, nipping at the church's heals, with justice only due to the sheep, but not the wolves. If there were not as many wolves to fend off, the church could be more open in its discussions.

Interesting!

Cases of RAPE are to are subject to the pontifical secret.

RAPE victims and the witnesses are to Swear To God & the bible TOTAL secrecY...

THIS was Vatican LAW & recomendation.......PUNISHED under penality of eXcomunication....

Sure they are doing a great job now.........BUT the victims are still comming forward..........& the vaTican is sTill propigating its lies...

POPE DEMANDED. Raping PRIESTS~ handled with pontifical secrect. SILENCE../. ] Tell NO one,,, OR get PUNISHED.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_djV_NNX8

PAPAL \DOC.~Priests~ordered~KEEp quieT.. / AcT~as your OWN JUDGE, & Jury
http://www.richardsipe.com/Comments/2010-04-01-ratzinger.htm


PAPAL DOCCUMENT ALL..seX / Rape of PRIESTS~ should be upmost SECRECY, under pain of excomunation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3157859.stm

Vatican / POPE, ORDERED Silence in CHILD Rape restrained by Perpetual silence / secret ~under the penalty of excommunication.” ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9eSTwERKDA

http://www.suite101.com/content/german-priests-accused-of-sex-abuse-a211650

Vatican / POPE, ORDERED ~ Bishops To Cover Up Child Sex Abuse /_ Rape *

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=673

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.... MUST SEE NOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqn_vL5d2y8
Catholics & Muslims Both have religious Claims.....but U dont want to get into any of that bec everything U believe & propigate about religion your selves is complete lies & reX proves it...

The Catholic Church has never HELPED Jews and Jews are hurting badly.

Rome tried TO KILL Jesus at his birth under KING Herod ...

Rome continued to supress, inflict slavery and violence and murder upon the jews...

Rome went on to kill, MURDER & Torture Jesus Christ DUE to a SMALL tinY tinY small handfull of Curent jealous and flusterated Jews ,...
The rest of the Jews went on to WRITE the New Testament ..

Accept & love Jesus ...teaching & preaching the Gospel..

& many Jews were not ready to accept He was their Messiah stayed back and held to their Faith..

Rome continued to Murder Jews throughout the INQUISITIONS, crusades FORCED BAPTISm & forced conversions ... and even back in the horrible MASADA....

The pope signed a CONTRACT propagana deal with HITLER ...THE vatican COMMANDED all Catholics priests to SWEAR on GOD & on the HOLY bible.......

Complete & total loyality to Adolf Hitler.....Catholic Italy JOINED Hitler & Germany in WW ll ...Killing MILLIONS & MILLIONS & MILLIONS more Jews ....

The pope was completly SILENT never mentioning the Jews or asking the Italian Catholics to stop supporting Hitler in his war OR even asking the Catholic Italians to sTop killing & attacking Africa, Greece Egypt & other Southern countries...When the WORLDS UN..... voted for giving the HEBREWs their HOME land back for ALL jews to come home....

The pope was again silent,,,

WHEn the USA tried to get the JEWS addmitted into the UN.....so they could be heard just a littke louder....

The pope was again silent,,,When the MUSLIMS from day 1.....threatened to PUSh the JEWS into the sea & MURDER them all......


The pope defends the muslims claiming there should be a 2 state solution which is a death sentence for every jew in Israel...
The catholic Church has been HIDING rape victims . Ordering silence of the victims & the rapists.....

a few Jewish children obviously were probably molested & raped....
Jews do not like being raped....and are so tired of it.....

.& the popes & ROME & Catholic religion has raped them since before the 1 st century...HOW WOULD U FEEl about ROME if U wer a hebrew ?

Well the South side of Chicago
Is the baddest part of town
And if you go down there
You better just beware of a man named Leroy Brown

Now Leroy, more than trouble
You see he stand 'bout six foot four
All the downtown ladies call him Treetop Lover
All the men just call him Sir

And it's bad, bad Leroy Brown
The baddest man in the whole damned town
Badder than old King Kong
And meaner than a junkyard dog

The Catholic Church has never HELPED Jews and Jews are hurting badly. they have another people's country and are highly influential in the world's most powerful country. I would hardly say they are hurting

israel & JEWS are not hurting !

?

Which side of the cave are you living in, that is not able to get radio or tv reception ?

The Hebrews have been attacked day after day

week after week month after month

Every single year for the last 70 years ..

People have been swearing to their God Allah ( the God of Rome & mecca)

To KILL & rape & slaughter the Hebrews... ~They receive suicide bombings & rockets in their Schools, busses, parks, resturants and social clubs .

They have their own citizens captured & tortured and raped every single year...

They have to eXchange KILLERS & TERRORISTS...Just to get ther family members back...
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Suicide+and+Other+Bombing+Attacks+in+Israel+Since. htm

Go to the link & see a graph...SEE the facts of what these people have to endure.

Would U be hurting if your family members were being blown to peices, & shot at with rockets and kidnapped ?

of course U would.....BUT the Jews are different bec they oppose the catholic teaching .... RIGHT ?

Thousands of Little innocent CHILDREN can be sodomiZed



.....Spiritually Molested & their hearts ripped out...





This is OK to CATHOLICS & ROME....when gone UNCHECKED & un eXposed ....


ROME FIRES a priest for marying A WOMAN........



The priest is BANNED, FIRED & outcasted....for having wifes...


But Catholics protect & hide & supresses inFORMATION concerning a CHILD rapist priest ..



This is their STANDARD of being nICE...


reX is not ~~~ N I C E~~~ acording to your pagan,



filthy abominat~ing HOMO~GAMOUS, sodomite



standards of a child rape culture



That spits on marriage of priests.......BUT PROTECTS & makes sacred the rape of children...



THE Scattholic cult of ROME. wHO ITS head is Headed & LED by an X naZi soldier & a child abuser,


Catholics have shown clearly ....THEY RATHER thousands upon THOUSANDS of children be RAPED



THAN for a PRIEST to MARY a couple wifes to take care of his needs..



Rome has shipped *& moved these priests & bishops around....HIDING their Rape



Hiding their molestations & filthy, VILE acts ,,.....



ROME FIRES a priest for marying A WOMAN..



But protests & hides & supresses inFORMATION concerning a CHILD rapist priest



Thousands of Little innocent CHILDREN be sodomiZed .....Spiritually Molested & their hearts ripped out...



This is OK to CATHOLICS & ROME....when gone UNCHECKED & un eXposed reX is not.... interested in your N i C E

You are a filthy pagan LYING catholic, child RAPE fundie... & supporter of child rape....



& reX has no respect for your LIES



reX is not interested in the RAPE FUNDIE Catholic DOCTRINED rape cult & definition



of...... N I C E





When the Vatican demands for the secrecy & concealment of rape UNDER threat of eXcomunication & abandonment





Abandonment of a child spiritually & emotionally can wreak havoc in their life that can lead to serious effects.



reX and millions of Americans are speaking anout this filthy , nasty church



no.... WE are not NICE on catholic lies, CATHOLIC caused child rape,



Catholics biblical perversity that is so far from any thing in the bible...



IT IS trully the most evil organiZation on the planet.

god I love it when people rant and for the most part don't have a damn clue what they are talking about

is he still doing crayon?

We have proved beyond a SHADOW of any doubt

that the pope & catholics condemnation against marriage with no plans or ability to

have children has been PROVEN to be a LIE...

Catholics have THEMSELVES PROVEN....That . it is

A man made INVENTED PUSH by Catholics & Muslims

there is no biblical foundation, No biblical backing ~~

no BIBLICAL truth in anything the catholic has to saY { concerning the bible.

THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS

..... no defence for their Man made UNBIBLICAL LIES.

We have learned that Catholic MENTALITY & the Catholic APPROACH to Gods word
would have us believing that Because of Monogamy the 1 st MURDER was commited ..

because of Monogamy was adam & Eve doomed to eat the fruit >?

this kind of thought & MENTALITY ....is how catholics engage in their doctrine..

They invent things WITH no biblical FOUNDATION


ADAM & EVEs Children ( Sons & Daughters ) were breeding ( HAVING seX Children )

with one another

Sisters & brothers were having children ...UP till Abraham ~ EVEN married his OWN

SISTER..

So this is the way OBVOUSLY God intended for us to follow ....We are supposed to mary our SISTERS and Brothers...today

No .............this TYPE of catholic FAKE THEOLOGY is a lie....

USING the catholic ARGUMENT

FROM THE BEGENING it was not So.....is not condemning anything BUT dIVORSE .... alone....

only untill NOAH were People allowed to MARY their Full Blooded SIBLINGS..

The bible FORBIDS marying FULL blooded SIBLINGS

After Noah ~~~

Only HALF brother ^&* SISTER/ and cousins could MARY....

Mary & Joseph were distant COUSINS

Jesus & John the Baptits are EVEN ./ Noted as Cousins.....

Catholics & Muslims do nothing but pretend and teach a man made LIE..
The bible further continues to command for seX to be even enjoyed

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe;

let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

The origional hebrew word for thy fountain means in Hebrew 4726 מקור

maqor flowing; also of tears, blood semen fountain, issue,


The origional hebrew word for RAVISHED Hebrew 7686

שׁגה

shâgâh Shaw-gaw' intoxication) to reel, be enraptured:


Enjoy seX, use seX , for pleasure, enjoy your Wifes Breasts,

Be intoxicated reeling and TAKEN be enraptured: with having seX. And enjoying

having seX

JUST for the sake of enjoying and having pleasure....alone

and being comoforted BY your WIFES.

Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe;

let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: congradulated

and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

_______________

No where is the bible declaring that seX is bad to have

IF YOU are NOT intending to produce children....



This is a LIE....Unbilical and a man made catholic fable.

The bible says to ALLWAYS be satisfied, ALWAYS be enjoying

let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

; and be thou ravished always with her love.

The Hebrew word always 8548 תּמיד

Tamiyd means, to stretch; continuance (as indefinite extension, constant daily) alway

(-s), continual ever (-more), perpetual.

seX, and enjoyment are to be enjoyed always in a perpetual continual constant and

constant daily engagement.

The restraints & evils put on seX by rome and mecca is completly UNBIBLICAL.



POPE CONDEMNS CONTRACEPTION
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354867,00.html


Catholics, instead of following Gods word..

They TAKE advice from an X nazi soldier..

& a pervert who has covered UP and knowingly IGNORED the RAPE of thousands of little children...

they refuse to discuss the subject on a biblical PERSPECTIVE..

They make everYthing PERSONAL..........

declaring Bec reX is just A NO BODY...........they will take their advice and Teachings from some one different..

this is NOT~~~ reXes teachings...

reX

is GIVING biblical verses telling MAN TO ENJOY seX have sex JUST TO HAVE ENJOYMENT..

This is directly from the BIBLE.

Not from an X nazi soldier..

& a pervert who has covered UP and knowingly IGNORED the RAPE of thousands of little children...

he has been asked to apear in 4 LAWSUITS.... ans has PETITIONED for DIPLONATIC IMMUNITY,,,.........so he can eXape being brought to Justice for his crimes.....

This is your standard....... men who kiss the quran & declare Allah is Jesus....

this is so wicked...... THE hate for the bible and truth

& LOVE & ADORE evil & wicKedness is so obvious

is he still doing crayon?
No idea. He's still here though.

‘God’ speakest to the Pope’s unholiness…

God: Well, Pope, of course, preying on the underage for sex, or for any reason, is wrong, and, as you tolerated it, even enabling it, you allowed it to continue, even for a long time. It is both what one does and doesn’t do that constitutes an action. I hereby damn you and all those involved to eternal fire.

Pope: But we all repented by saying the act of contrition, and so now all of our slates are clean.

God: Nope, Pope, for that’s just one of your made-up human rules, as well as the one about consensual adult sex not being for recreation but only for procreation.

Pope: Damn; I mean darn! if I have to burn forever, then, well, that’s it; but, are you saying that I can have sex?

God: Of course you can; find some sweetheart, of nun or another; for, your celibacy rule is complete nonsense—look at the Episcopals: they can marry and have kids and all that, for that is all totally natural. And how are your priests going to counsel families when they don’t have any familial experience of their own?

Pope: Ok, but really… is sex ok?

God: You numbskull; sex is natural, too, even for the unmarried—and stop sweating all this impure nakedness stuff. If I didn’t want people to be able to be naked then they would have been born with a lot more fur, or with clothes on.

Pope: Anyway, should I and all resign?

God: Yes; in fact, you are to be fired, literally; you are all a disgrace to all that’s holy.

Pope: But, you made us!

God: Hey, well, nobody’s perfect, but, hey, don’t forget: I’m the boss.

Pope: Ok, but you can’t fire me, for, I quit.

God: Good, you ignoramus. I’m hiring a team to take over, consisting of Sam Harris, Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, Victor Stenger, and more; for I am an atheist myself, for there ain’t any higher power that made me, that’s for sure.

Pope: How does one have sex?

God: Ah, a fine thing that question is; you makka da rules but never playya the game.

Pope: Are you Italian?

God: Is the Pope decent?

Pope: No, I am the scum of the earth.

God: What the hell were you thinking?

Pope: I wasn’t. So, how does sex go?

God: It comes and then it goes. Good luck.

Pope: Thanks; I’m going now—to light some candles. Drink some wine, ad get someone out of her habit.

God: Good plan, for that’s how I, Mister Right, found Miss Perfect.

Pope: You mean you have sex!

God: You dumbo; did you think that eternity could ensue from no paternity joining with maternity?

Pope: Oh.

God: Now get lost, you dingleberry, and if you’re pretty good from now on I’ll take a few trillion years off of your eternal sentence.

Pope: Thanks, I think…

Hitler was not interested in disobedien*t un deticated Catholics

all Catholics not as completly deticated as HIM....wer*e sent away....

Pope Ratizinger was deticated enough....*..to serve an an anTiaircra*ft GUNNER in Hitlers Nazi army..

now He is Deticated ENOUGH....*.to cover up the Rape of thousands of little children..*.

He & hitler are alot alike.....

Very very deticated.*......

reXes~ ALL N E W SiTe .... OBAMA \ a MURDERER.../ A must SEE. http://obomanationinfanticide.sharepoint.com/Pages/default.aspx



But OBAMA supports taking a little NEW BORN innocent child....... *& as it is being BORN......stabbing it in the head & SUCKING ITS BRAINS OUT

That website is the most retarded and disgusting thing I have ever seen, not because of the primary subject matter, but because of the ignorant, sensationalist, wildly inaccurate and hateful manner in which it tries to make it's point. You are a disgrace to pro-lifers everywhere.