What makes a word profane?

A couple of notes on that question:

* My father taught me against profanity on the grounds that profane words "mean nothing". I understand his point, that words so generally applied have no real meaning. On the one hand, I wonder why this is cause for complaint. To the other, that point is almost entirely irrelevant. However, among those of my own generation closest to me, we share a certain regard for profane words: They are expressions of meaningless, rather than meaningless themselves. To say of an event, It's an outrage, may describe the nature of the event. But to say of an event, It's a fucking outrage, characterizes that sense of outrage some. The expression of meaninglessness inherent in the term fucking indicates an ineffable degree. Example? Flying jet airplanes into buildings is an outrage. Killing six million people for thier religion is a fucking outrage. So even the parentally-advised standard regarding profanity seems inadequate cause to exscind these words from acceptable culture.

* In 9th grade or thereabout, someone pointed out that certain English-language profanities became such after the Norman invasion when the indigenous tongues were frowned upon; certain of these words survive today in various forms and have profane connotations.

* I recall watching a particularly odd argument when in high school whereby a mother called her daughter all manner of insulting names: slut, hussy, prostitute, bitch, ad nauseam. The argument never reached its conclusion because the young lady expressed that she didn't understand what all this shit was about, and suddenly, the argument became about her mouth. Let me here attest that, as we plucked fingernail segments out of her arm and after she finished the routine vomiting that came after an argument with her parents that she was still unsure what started the argument. Most curious, however, is that the vital issues compelling a mother to criticize her daughter as sexually immoral (and, presumably, behaving in a manner detrimental to her health and wellbeing) are apparently secondary to words deemed profane.

Here at Sciforums we sling some rather impressive insults at each other; yet the greater portion of the complaints acted upon by our moderators involve "profane" words. (Let me note here that it is my understanding that our moderators generally won't interfere until someone complains, so we might thus conclude that the greater portion of the complaints have to do with words deemed profane by one or more posters.)

Watch television recently? In the US, you can say, "asshole", "dick", "prick", "shit", "cock", "blowjob", and a host of other terms deemed unsavory by many. However, when you say "Goddamn it," on television, "God" is censored, and not the "damn", which is a word generally considered inappropriate for use. Is "God" a profane word?

Noting the growing acceptance of words like "damn" and "hell", we might also note that we still instruct children against using them. A preacher can talk about the damned, but if parents in that preacher's congregation hear children using the word even in the religious context, they are often corrected. Why is this?

Interestingly enough, nobody has ever really established what makes a word profane. Certes, some have written of it in the past, but no real consensus can be reached as to why certain words are profane.

So I'm curious: what makes a word profane? Recall, please, as we devise our standards, the number of colloquialisms bestowed on the American culture in recent years: jiggy, diggity-dank, "da bomb", and a host of words like "shag" which have legitimate meanings which are disregarded in their colloquial form. These are all meaningless words. What is jiggy? What, outside of marijuana, where "dank" has an acceptably accurate meaning, does "diggity-dank" mean? How does one become "da bomb"? Meaningless words, to my father's chagrin, do not become profane merely for their lack of meaning.

Prudish standards toward utilitarianism don't suffice. Sure, "penis" is the word, and "cock" is a profane word when applied to the penis, but why are "Union Jack", "One-Eyed Willie", "Scottish Monster", "Python of Love", "Heat-Seeking-Moisture-Missile", "dingleberries", "family jewels" not censored?

Is "cocksucker" a bad offense because it's usually aimed at a male and implies homosexuality?

Why is "cunt" obscene or profane, and "Madame Butterfly" cute and euphemistic?

Everyone I know to whom I show the Gorillaz Rock da House video points out the same thing: What, you can't say "ass-crack"?

Really, I think people should be able to say, write, or broadcast whatever they want. It's not like we're forcing the protestations to be silent: people can still make what value judgements they will. You are welcome to think less of someone whose only word for describing negativity is "shit", but I don't think a person's opinion of a word should be a prohibitionist law.

So I'm curious: What makes a word profane?

Start with the basics: Can you tell me why any of the following words are profane?

* Fuck
* Shit
* Cock
* Cunt

(A note to our kind host and moderators: I know, I know. But that's part of the point. We know these words are "profane", but nobody's ever given much of a reason why. It comes down, I think, to that people just learn or choose to not like these words, which makes it a matter of comparative principles; in other words, one's freedom to speak being limited by another's subjective sense of taste. So I'm curious why these words are profane. In general, I shall continue to approach these words as I have since recent considerations involving Oxygen's moderation; that is, I shall continue to pick profanities carefully, euphemize them at other times, and simply omit letters at others. But the issue of why a word is profane is one I've always wondered about, and even moreso since a single word apparently bears so much weight when juxtaposed against the nastiness that flies around this board. I shall, for your comfort, reserve such explicitness as this topic post includes to this exploration.)

thanx all,
Tiassa :cool:

I had to vote for nr4, dudeness ! :D ( you like Big Lebowski? ...my favourite)

I think the profanity in a word is very much in the pronounciation( did I spell that right? ) and in the intention.. You can really take the edge off a word by saying it the totally "wrong" way. A word is in itself not profane, because it´s just a combination of sounds.

Like showing somebody the finger, it´s just totally ridiculous, it´s just a finger.
So I have not became angry at my son when he once did this for example, I just laughed at him, and then he laughed too, when he realized how ridiculous it was. And now we can show eachother the finger, and it doesn´t mean anything, but gives us a smile on our faces.

But we´re a crazy family...:D

Hey Tiassa...

These words have come a long way.

One example...

Cunt: “...At the very outset, when the word first appeared in English, it did not have the same force as today. The OED’s oldest example of the term’s use, from ca. 1230, it appears unabashedly in the name of a London thoroughfare, Gropecuntelane. Back in this plain-speaking era, when people’s names often were based on physical peculiarities, the word also appeared in such forms as Godwin Clawecuncte, record in 1066, Gunoka Cuntles, 1219, and Bele Wydecunthe, 1328 (James McDonald, A Dictionary of Obscenity, Taboo & Euphemism, 1988). Geoffrey Chaucer, too, employed the word as occasion demanded in The Canterbury Tales (ca. 1387-1400), though with a different spelling.... At about this same time, the term also crops up in a medical text. ‘In wymmen [the] neck of [the] bladdre is schort, & is maad fast to the cunte’ (Lanfranc’s Science of Circurgie, tr. ca. 1400)...”

From: Wicked Words by Hugh Rawson.

(A fascinating history of how words have become “dirty.” Lots more info there on the word "cunt" alone.)

~~~~

Basically, I treat it like most everything else. If I think there’s a chance I might offend someone in a way that can be easily avoided, then I typically choose not to offend. Not much point in intentionally being offensive, ya know?

Words are powerful. No doubt you’re aware of that! ;) I try to wield them appropriately. Like so many other things, they can be tools and weapons, whether we mean for them to be or not.

However, I agree that too much is made of some “profanities.” It used to be considered unthinkable! to utter the word “gross” in polite society. We think nothing of it now.

I think it’s just the times that we live in. No harm in questioning the "why" of it, of course, yet I doubt it will have much effect. Too many people are too easily offended.

Curious to hear what others might add to this...

~~~

Counterbalance

Counterbalance

Grope Cunt Lane? Now that, sir, is hilarious. :D It seems there's a book I should buy ....

I'm presently recalling Soupy Sales, a television host before my day. In the early days of American television, speech was exceptionally limited and, it should be added (in a similar but not quite the same vein) that there used to be a "writer's code" for Hollywood scripts. Why does the adultress usually die a typical, unsurprising death at the end of the film? Tradition. It used to be that way by rule. If the villains didn't get what was coming to them, the script was shelved. (Where would Star Wars be if Vader died in the Death Star?)

However, Soupy Sales had some amazing occasions to draw some interesting wrath. On one occasion, staffers playing a practical joke put a naked woman behind a door on his stage (I forget the actual gag they were doing). He was worried that he would be taken off the air for that stunt, which documented mostly his reaction, and minimal flesh of the woman. This is an interesting prudery. Most relevant to our discussion, however, is the occasion upon which Mr Sales had a kitten onstage. He was discussing kittens with his sidekick when one of them noted the kitten was drinking milk. "Gotta be careful or she'll get diarrhea ...."

Scandalous: "Diarrhea" was a prohibited word.

Incidentally, I do appreciate the history of the word "cunt", and, as noted, will be seeking the volume on bookstore shelves, but in the meantime, does it note the earliest denunciation of the word as profane?

Bebelina

I tend to agree with you throughout, though my memory of Lebowski is a little hazy for various reasons.

Unfortunately, I'm pressed for time and thus can only wish the best of all craziness for your family.

thanx all, and keep those opinions coming,
Tiassa :cool:

Tiassa,

Every generation feels the need to express it's emotional outrages in greater detail, whether by word or by tongue, than the preceding generations.

I can read and hear expressions such as "extreme outrage", and "fucking outrage" in much the same way. I admit the use of "fucking" does tend to grab my eyes & ears somewhat more than other adjectives and adverbs. I can live with the useage of both.

As one grows older however, proper english seems more comfortable and civilized.

ps. You write great! I do read your many posts.

but in the meantime, does it note the earliest denunciation of the word as profane?


Okay... I skimmed over it again and it looks like that even in Shakespeare’s day, the term had begun to take on decidedly “negative” connotations. For while the famous playwright was brazen enough to have his actors refer to “it,” he had them do it in the ol’ “wink-wink” style:

“Hamlet: Lady, shall I lie in your lap?
Ophelia: No, my lord.
Hamlet: I mean, my head upon your lap.
Ophelia: Aye, my lord.
Hamlet: Do you think I mean country [cuntry] matters?
Ophelia: I think nothing, my lord.
Hamlet: That’s a fair thought to lie between maids’ legs.

“Bolder still, Shakespeare even spelled out the word in Twelfth Night (1600-02), with the steward, Malvolio, deciphering the handwriting on a letter this way: ‘By my life, this is my lady’s hand. These be her C’s, her U’s, and [‘n] her T’s, and thus makes she her great P’s.“

(Taken from Wicked Words)

But even in earlier days the word was considered an “earthy” term by Pietro Aretino, (1492 -1556). Look ‘im up. You might find his view on profanity interesting. ;)

The true permanent turn against this word seems to have come about in the 1700’s. Society became exceedingly more polite, and the way I interpret it, perhaps Ladies, in general, began taking more exception to being labeled thusly, although, few would have spoken out in public about it.

In modern times, the term is often interpreted as one of the lowest slams against a woman--or even a man. To call someone a "cunt" is to more or less say they are “nothing.” And that’s about as offensive as you can get in many peoples' minds.

So, the word is, actually, profane to some. Others couldn’t care less. My unsolicited advice? ...would be to err on the side of caution. Never know who might be deeply offended when we didn’t intend to do so.

And, well... on the Internet, we also never know who’s male and who’s female...

Sirrah...

;)

~~~

Counterbalance

The Big Lebowski, hillerious film has everything sex drugs violence and humor, its even got some dodgy Germans wanting to cut the dudes 'johnson' off. Me chuckles.

Whats is "da bomb", i understand it was an african-american word but it seems to have become part of the americn culture now.
I was also suppirsed you mentioned the word "shag" thats been around in england long before i was born, weired if you go to europe and ask for a "shag" there likley to hand u a bag of tabbaco!.
I cant say i know why there offensive to some people, children are the funnest tho when u sware in front of children (not that i do:)) they always fall about laughing, then they go around calling everyone 'the bad word' until they get smacked or told off for it.

The term 'da bomb' is normally used as a compliment..
meaning something like awesome or amazing.
I don't think I've ever heard it used as an insult
so if you hear someone call u 'da bomb', say thank-you
:)

Oh.. and just a random thought...
most teens (as you've probably noticed) do swear a lot
but when we swear.. most of the time we're just using the words to express out opinions... we're not using them as offensive words
like what tiassa said.. we wud say 'its a fuckign outrage' to express that we didn't like it or whatever.

Http://sciforums.stryderunknown.co.uk/images/necromancy.jpg

Old threads do have a habit of dieing hard.

I've been jumping on my kids lately for saying 'fricking' I just get tired of hearing it.